Zone D... So far so bad.

[jkirchel]

Jags are moving at will. Middle is wide open. They are clearing and dumping. Do you think its because of inexperience or is the cover 2 passé?

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[polamalubeast]

The defense is vanilla right now,which is normal, but the pass rush is horrible

Timmons was also out tonight

[86WARD]

I'd like to see JJones making some moves...but he's not...vanilla or not, he's been quite useless tonight. Shazier on the other hand has been great!!

[jkirchel]

I see Shaz in almost every play. He is definitely in every frame.

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[clemdawg]

Steelers are in preaseason. Like to see better play.

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[Psycho Ward 86]

lol we have guys like BW Webb and Alden Darby out there during most of that....


although seeing Shamarko not handle his assignment on the last TD is disconcerting for sure

[steelerdude15]

Ryan is going to be a good football player. I really like his closing speed he has displayed so far this pre-season.

[jkirchel]

Saw the same from Gay on a big pass in the middle. He looked noticeably upset.

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[steelerdude15]

Jags are moving at will. Middle is wide open. They are clearing and dumping. Do you think its because of inexperience or is the cover 2 passé?

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I would say inexperience of the players not playing in the new scheme. Apparently it's not that easy to learn for the younger players.


Steelers notebook: Defense returning to zone coverage

Carnell Lake played in two different defenses in his 10-year career with the Steelers, so he knows a little something about what cornerbacks and safeties are trying to learn under new defensive coordinator Keith Butler.

Lake played for three seasons (1989-91) under Chuck Noll, who primarily employed zone coverages. Then, when Bill Cowher became coach in 1992, Lake played in defenses coached by Dom Capers and Dick LeBeau that used mostly man coverages behind the zone-blitz schemes.

This year, for the first time since the Noll era, the Steelers will go back to mostly zone coverages in an attempt to improve the performance of the secondary and prevent the plethora of big pass plays.

That will allow the defensive backs to play with their eyes on the quarterback, not running with receivers.

Read More: http://www.post-gazette.com/sports/steelers/2015/08/04/Steelers-notebook-defense-returning-to-zone-coverage/stories/201508040059

[hawaiiansteeler]

Shazier on the other hand has been great!!

Sean Spence is having himself a nice ball game as well...

[hawaiiansteeler]

FIRE Butler!!!

[Devilsdancefloor]

FIRE Butler!!!

ha ha you win the interwebs

[jkirchel]

@Hawaiiansteeler I think cover 2 is being pushed by Tomlin. They played it in Minnesota when he was the defensive coordinator. I feel (opinion coming) that they put the screws to get Lebeau out to put Butler in. Tomlin and Butler have history. I don't think they will part with the 3 4 for a while because they have the personnel for it. The cover 2 only works if you can get to the QB. We did not see that tonight at all. Let's hope they have a few tricks up their sleeves when the season starts. If not the Brady's, Flacco and Rodgers of the league are going to run up some serious points on us this year.

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[hawaiiansteeler]

@Hawaiiansteeler I think cover 2 is being pushed by Tomlin. They played it in Minnesota when he was the defensive coordinator. I feel (opinion coming) that they put the screws to get Lebeau out to put Butler in. Tomlin and Butler have history. I don't think they will part with the 3 4 for a while because they have the personnel for it. The cover 2 only works if you can get to the QB. We did not see that tonight at all. Let's hope they have a few tricks up their sleeves when the season starts. If not the Brady's, Flacco and Rodgers of the league are going to run up some serious points on us this year.



I agree with what you wrote in your post.

however, keep in mind that Butler is only employing a vanilla defense right now and there were a lot of guys out there on defense today that will soon be delivering UPS packages...

[Chidi29]

Butler has been anything but vanilla. Unless NTs dropping into coverage and DEs carrying backs into the flat are vanilla.

[86WARD]

So it's worse than they think...thanks...lol.

[TD's & Beer]

Butler has been anything but vanilla. Unless NTs dropping into coverage and DEs carrying backs into the flat are vanilla.

Yeah, Vanilla or not, I don't think the scheme has anything to do with it when the players can't make plays.

The D line is just weak, like before. Still can't stop the run up the gut. Have they never seen the draw play before?

Harrison and Shazier were getting it done, and yeah, it's early, but i'm afraid Bud is looking like a Jarvis clone, always getting slapped out of the way or thrown to the dirt.

If Bortles didn't throw like Landry, it could have been much worse. Gay looked good, Cortez blows, same as before in the secondary... Shamarko was getting toasted by their 3rd string QB. He looked totally lost when not invisible.


so...we have a first string offense and not much else


Go Ben! - we will definitely need those 35+ points a game!

[hawaiiansteeler]

Butler has been anything but vanilla.

do you think Butler is calling the defensive plays the way he will once the real games begin?

[Steeldude]

Jags are moving at will. Middle is wide open. They are clearing and dumping. Do you think its because of inexperience or is the cover 2 passé?

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Seems normal to me. The Steelers defense has always had holes in the middle.

I know some will say they are playing a basic defense with nothing extra. I seriously doubt it.

The Steelers may have to score 30+ point per game to reach the post-season.

[hawaiiansteeler]

By Mike Prisuta

NOT THERE YET: The defense, populated with starters and regulars for the most part for the first time this preseason, gave up a field goal and two touchdowns on four Jacksonville possessions in the first half. Included were a 13-play, 45-yard drive for a field goal in 8:17 and a 12-play, 83-yard march in 6:05 for a touchdown.

“I think we have to get a lot better at the run and get a lot better at being more disciplined in our pass coverage,” safety Will Allen suggested. “I think once we kind of tie up one of those loose ends together we’ll be where we want to be.

“Right now we’re nowhere near where we need to be or want to be but that’s why you have preseason.”

to read rest of article:

http://www.steelers.com/news/article-1/Hartley-gets-off-on-the-right-foot/8046a73a-b94b-4e57-b5e6-7fdbe7d017b5

[KillerBs]

“I think we have to get a lot better at the run and get a lot better at being more disciplined in our pass coverage,” safety Will Allen suggested. “I think once we kind of tie up one of those loose ends together we’ll be where we want to be."


That's what I tell people about my golf game... "Man if I could get my drives, chips and putting down... I would be a lot better"

[polamalubeast]

It'll be tough to score 30 points per game if the defense stay on the field 5-6 minutes per drive!

[hawaiiansteeler]

“I think we have to get a lot better at the run and get a lot better at being more disciplined in our pass coverage,” safety Will Allen suggested. “I think once we kind of tie up one of those loose ends together we’ll be where we want to be."


That's what I tell people about my golf game... "Man if I could get my drives, chips and putting down... I would be a lot better"

yeah, if it wasn't for my long and short game I'd be a pretty good golfer...:chuckle:

[KillerBs]

It'll be tough to score 30 points per game if the defense stay on the field 5-6 minutes per drive!
You said it brother!


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[Count Steeler]

It'll be tough to score 30 points per game if the defense stay on the field 5-6 minutes per drive!

I don't think our defense will stay on the field that long. 4 minutes max. Either get lucky and stop them, or the other team will score within 4 minutes. And the way our STs are playing, the opposing teams offenses won't have far to go to score.

[teegre]

That's what I tell people about my golf game... "Man if I could get my drives, chips and putting down... I would be a lot better"

To paraphrase Lewis Black:
"There is no such thing as being 'good' at golf... only degrees of being shitty."

[polamalubeast]

I don't think our defense will stay on the field that long. 4 minutes max. Either get lucky and stop them, or the other team will score within 4 minutes. And the way our STs are playing, the opposing teams offenses won't have far to go to score.

I prepared myself for the worst case scenario.Nothing is worse(Especially in the first half) than seeing the defense be on the field during 6-7 minutes per drive and give up a TD at the end of the drive.

[ALLD]

The defense reminds me of the need for the punter to kick the ball out of bounds every time and the kicker to make it past the end zone. OTherwise the team is very susceptible of giving up big plays.

[Rotorhead]

I am still holding out hope. I think our CB play will be better than what you are seeing and our S play will improve throughout the season. We really need our rush to step it up. I am hopeful our DL will put it together starting the reg season as well.

[Count Steeler]

Let's wait and see what the 3rd preseason game brings (in our case the 4th game).

[TeeTee]

By Mike Prisuta

NOT THERE YET: The defense, populated with starters and regulars for the most part for the first time this preseason, gave up a field goal and two touchdowns on four Jacksonville possessions in the first half. Included were a 13-play, 45-yard drive for a field goal in 8:17 and a 12-play, 83-yard march in 6:05 for a touchdown.

“I think we have to get a lot better at the run and get a lot better at being more disciplined in our pass coverage,” safety Will Allen suggested. “I think once we kind of tie up one of those loose ends together we’ll be where we want to be.

“Right now we’re nowhere near where we need to be or want to be but that’s why you have preseason.”

to read rest of article:

http://www.steelers.com/news/article-1/Hartley-gets-off-on-the-right-foot/8046a73a-b94b-4e57-b5e6-7fdbe7d017b5

At least they are aware of the problem; that's a start.

[Mojouw]

All these folks writing these articles realize that the Steelers have played a zone defense in the secondary since about - well basically forever, right? It was called a "zone blitz" or "fire zone" defense. I mean that kind of gives it away.

There are only a few isolated instances where they played "man" coverages. Typically that involved solely Rod Woodson in his prime and Ike Taylor when he could still run. I know it is not quite as simple as that, but as I stated elsewhere, ALL of the coverage changes are primarily driven by the lose/lack of Polamalu and it is also my belief that Butler is designing and implementing a defensive concept that will allow Shazier to slowly step into the role of "disruptor" and "do random athletically amazing things that somehow stopped the offense". Take a look at how all the coaches talk about Shazier. Same way they talked about Polamalu in the first two years. I am not trying to elevate Shazier to that level as a player yet -- he has to earn it on the field. But I remain convinced that is what everything is about.

[86WARD]

All these folks writing these articles realize that the Steelers have played a zone defense in the secondary since about - well basically forever, right? It was called a "zone blitz" or "fire zone" defense. I mean that kind of gives it away.

There are only a few isolated instances where they played "man" coverages. Typically that involved solely Rod Woodson in his prime and Ike Taylor when he could still run. I know it is not quite as simple as that, but as I stated elsewhere, ALL of the coverage changes are primarily driven by the lose/lack of Polamalu and it is also my belief that Butler is designing and implementing a defensive concept that will allow Shazier to slowly step into the role of "disruptor" and "do random athletically amazing things that somehow stopped the offense". Take a look at how all the coaches talk about Shazier. Same way they talked about Polamalu in the first two years. I am not trying to elevate Shazier to that level as a player yet -- he has to earn it on the field. But I remain convinced that is what everything is about.

I wouldn't say you were off base at all. I mean really Polamalu played a line backer position half the time...so it's not that far off base that Shazier may be inserted into that "role" at times.

[tube517]

Actually, Timmons had that "rover" role after Troy. I think Mojouw's spot on. Shazier will inherit that role.

[Mojouw]

Actually, Timmons had that "rover" role after Troy. I think Mojouw's spot on. Shazier will inherit that role.

Good point. I always forget about Timmons for some reason. Reminds me of Farrior that way. Goes out and does his job and kind of quietly can take over a game sometimes.

[Craic]

So, I went back and watched the first two quarters today. In all honesty, it wasn't as bad as it was made out to be. I also realized why Harrison got driven back . . . he basically jumped into the runner's lane and hadn't had a chance to set himself yet.

There were a few plays where obvious mistakes happened, but don't forget, this was basically the first preseason game. Tomlin, it looks like, took advantage of the first few days or week, and HOF game, to let some rookies develop. I think all this hand wringing right now is a bit premature.