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View Full Version : Mike Tomlin or Bill Cowher: Who Retires as Greater Pittsburgh Steelers Coach?



polamalubeast
06-29-2015, 04:08 PM
The Pittsburgh Steelers have an outstanding coaching history featuring Chuck Noll, Bill Cowher and now Mike Tomlin.

Where do they rank? Could Tomlin's legacy surpass Cowher's with Pittsburgh?

Watch as Adam Lefkoe and Bleacher Report NFL Analyst Chris Simms discuss the Steelers' coaches in the video above.


http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2510117-mike-tomlin-or-bill-cowher-who-retires-as-greater-pittsburgh-steelers-coach

polamalubeast
06-29-2015, 04:13 PM
After 8 years for Tomlin

82-46 in regular season
5-4 in the playoffs
Make the playoffs 5 times
2 AFC title games
2 Super bowl apparence
1 super bowl champions


After 8 years for Bill Cowher

77-51 in regualar season
5-6 in the playoffs
Make the playoffs 6 times
3 AFC title games
1 super bowl apparence

ALLD
06-29-2015, 04:24 PM
I see it as Tomlin squandered an opportunity to win an additional SB with Cowher's guys. I think if we went with Wiz and Grimm the transition would have been more seamless and consistent.

To put it to rest, Tomlin will need to win another SB. The Antonio Brown and Le'veon Bell draft picks make up for all of the Limas Sweeds.

fansince'76
06-29-2015, 04:50 PM
I think if we went with Wiz and Grimm the transition would have been more seamless and consistent.

I sincerely doubt it. Whiz has proven to be as clueless at managing QBs as Cowher was. Hell, he had Warner and Leinart sharing the QB job for over a year after he got to Arizona, and I don't think I have to mention his track record there with QBs after Warner retired.

If Whiz had stayed, I truly believe we would have lost Ben after his rookie contract expired and he demanded a trade. No question in my mind about that.

I know the long standing narrative has been that there was/is bad blood between Whiz and Roethlisberger due to Roethlisberger's immaturity at the time, but IMO, there was more to it than that and that Whiz bears some culpability for it as well.

86WARD
06-29-2015, 05:17 PM
Cowher at the moment...at times, Tomlin looks and acts lost. Cowher was more immature. Moth had episodes where they wanted to "run on the field." Cowher was able to contain his...where Tomlin stepped into the middle of a play..."by accident."

Remember when Cowher shoved the photo into the referees pocket when the screwed up the too many players on the field call in that Vikings game in 1995 (I think)? Good times...good times...

fansince'76
06-29-2015, 05:22 PM
Both had episodes where they wanted to "run on the field." Cowher was able to contain his...where Tomlin stepped into the middle of a play..."by accident."

No, there just wasn't a federal case made of it when Cowher did it...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nklpVIXIK9Q

IMO, Cowher and Tomlin are interchangeable at this point while neither comes close to Noll.

I will say, though, that I have to laugh at the "Cowher's guys" argument, seeing how one of the key players in the SB run in '08 was Harrison, and all Harrison did when Cowher was still in town was rot on the bench behind Porter. And had Cowher stuck around, I firmly believe he would have continued to do so since Porter was unquestionably "Cowher guy Numero Uno."

hawaiiansteeler
06-29-2015, 05:24 PM
If Whiz had stayed, I truly believe we would have lost Ben after his rookie contract expired and he demanded a trade. No question in my mind about that.


:iagree:

SteelerFanInStl
06-29-2015, 05:27 PM
Tomlin isn't done yet so I can't say. Cowher didn't exactly tear it up in the playoffs. I'm not exactly a Tomlin fan but until he's done in Pittsburgh, I can't say which one was a better coach.

- - - Updated - - -


IMO, Cowher and Tomlin are interchangeable at this point while neither comes close to Noll.

I agree.

86WARD
06-29-2015, 05:49 PM
Cowher's mishandling of Kordell Stewart was a debacle as well. They would've been better off keeping Slash where he was and starting Jim Miller at QB.

polamalubeast
06-29-2015, 05:55 PM
I give now an advantage to Cowher, but Tomlin can surpassed him

I would like to see the steelers more consistent under Tomlin in regular season and in the playoffs.

The default of Cowher was of course the QB, but when he had one, the Steelers had 2 amazing seasons in 2004 and 2005.

fansince'76
06-29-2015, 06:00 PM
Cowher's mishandling of Kordell Stewart was a debacle as well. They would've been better off keeping Slash where he was and starting Jim Miller at QB.

1997 AFCCG - Steelers trailing by 10 points. Steelers' ball, 2nd-and-goal at the Broncos' five-yard line. Instead of calling on the Bus, who was still very much in his prime at the time and who had been running roughshod over the Broncos' D all afternoon, he puts the ball in Stewart's hands, who promptly (and predictably) throws an INT into triple coverage in the end zone, and effectively loses the game right there and then. :doh:

And people say Tomlin makes dumb calls?

fansince'76
06-29-2015, 06:09 PM
The default of Cowher was of course the QB, but when he had one, the Steelers had 2 amazing seasons in 2004 and 2005.

And the only reason he had one at all is because Dan Rooney pulled rank on him during the '04 Draft.

And I still say we almost lost Super Bowl XL because he insisted coming out in his usual ultra-conservative Martyball-lite turtleball mode. You'd think that after blowing the Broncos' doors off in the AFCCG, Roethlisberger's confidence would have been peaking, yet he played that game scared to death. Think Cowher didn't have a huge hand in that, especially after watching O'Donnell hand over his first Super Bowl to the Cowboys on a silver platter? I do.

I also vividly recall a sideline soundbite by Roethlisberger from the highlights of that game, which, IMO, said it all: "Let's play to win, coach, not play not to lose." Thankfully, the Seahawks played like shit as well and we got a couple of calls our way.

Again, the guy just did not know how to effectively manage his QBs.

polamalubeast
06-29-2015, 06:21 PM
And the only reason he had one at all is because Dan Rooney pulled rank on him during the '04 Draft.

And I still say we almost lost Super Bowl XL because he insisted coming out in his usual ultra-conservative Martyball-lite turtleball mode. You'd think that after blowing the Broncos' doors off in the AFCCG, Roethlisberger's confidence would have been peaking, yet he played that game scared to death. Think Cowher didn't have a huge hand in that, especially after watching O'Donnell hand over his first Super Bowl to the Cowboys on a silver platter? I do.


Maybe, but the 2nd interception of Roethlisberger was not the fault of Cowher!

It was 3rd and goal and the steelers were ahead 14-3 and if Ben Makes this easy pass,this is 21-3 and the game would have been a blowout.

86WARD
06-29-2015, 06:26 PM
1997 AFCCG - Steelers trailing by 10 points. Steelers' ball, 2nd-and-goal at the Broncos' five-yard line. Instead of calling on the Bus, who was still very much in his prime at the time and who had been running roughshod over the Broncos' D all afternoon, he puts the ball in Stewart's hands, who promptly (and predictably) throws an INT into triple coverage in the end zone, and effectively loses the game right there and then. :doh:

And people say Tomlin makes dumb calls?

Along the lines of putting Harrison in at fullback...but worse...

polamalubeast
06-29-2015, 06:28 PM
In 1995 during the Super Bowl XXX, the Steelers had completely dominated the Cowboys during the 2nd half and one of the reasons was because of the onside kick by Cowher, but O'Donnell has cost the super bowl with 2 interceptions which are completely unexplainable

Cowher deserved at least to win one super bowl

fansince'76
06-29-2015, 06:33 PM
Maybe, but the 2nd interception of Roethlisberger was not the fault of Cowher!

It was 3rd and goal and the steelers were ahead 14-3 and if Ben Makes this easy pass,this is 21-3 and the game would have been a blowout.

I can't prove it, but I think Ben being scared of his own shadow in that game while going 9-for-21 and playing like warmed over dogshit WAS largely Cowher's fault. Ben was scared to death in that game, and it showed, and it was a night and day difference from the way he played throughout the entire postseason up to that point. You don't think he spent the two weeks leading up to that Super Bowl in Ben's head, especially considering the way Cowher's first Super Bowl was lost? Sorry, but I do. I thought that then and I think it now.

polamalubeast
06-29-2015, 06:42 PM
I can't prove it, but I think Ben being scared of his own shadow in that game while going 9-for-21 and playing like warmed over dogshit WAS largely Cowher's fault. Ben was scared to death in that game, and it showed, and it was a night and day difference from the way he played in the AFCCG and against the Colts in the Divisional game. You don't think Cowher spent the two weeks leading up to the Superbowl in Ben's head? Sorry, but I do. I thought that then and I think it now.


This is very possible you're right, but the fact that Roethlisberger was young at that time has not help too

fansince'76
06-29-2015, 06:51 PM
I will concede that Cowher was better at assembling a coaching staff. Some of Tomlin's choices for assistants have been really piss-poor.

Steeldude
06-29-2015, 06:53 PM
In 1995 during the Super Bowl XXX, the Steelers had completely dominated the Cowboys during the 2nd half and one of the reasons was because of the onside kick by Cowher, but O'Donnell has cost the super bowl with 2 interceptions which are completely unexplainable

Cowher deserved at least to win one super bowl

Cowher did win a SB.

hawaiiansteeler
06-29-2015, 07:07 PM
Tomlin can only win with Cowher's players :stirthepot:

86WARD
06-29-2015, 07:57 PM
In 1995 during the Super Bowl XXX, the Steelers had completely dominated the Cowboys during the 2nd half and one of the reasons was because of the onside kick by Cowher, but O'Donnell has cost the super bowl with 2 interceptions which are completely unexplainable

Cowher deserved at least to win one super bowl

I saw something somewhere that it was decided that the receiver ran the wrong route on that and it wasn't O'Donnell's fault.

Iron Steeler
06-29-2015, 08:54 PM
Bill Cowher definitely . Tomlin won and loss a Super Bowl with cowhers guys. Also Tomlin's lack an identity and mentality . Cowher was smash mouth football and everyone knew you were in for a fight with cowhers steelers. Also Cowher made his own decisions as a coach . Tomlins hasn't created that culture of controlled violence and power , i feel like rides the coordinators and his staff around him rather then take the wheel himself

TeeTee
06-29-2015, 09:00 PM
Is it true that O'Donnell never set a foot inside western PA since that game?

- - - Updated - - -


Bill Cowher definitely . Tomlin won and loss a Super Bowl with cowhers guys. Also Tomlin's lack an identity and mentality . Cowher was smash mouth football and everyone knew you were in for a fight with cowhers steelers. Also Cowher made his own decisions as a coach . Tomlins hasn't created that culture of controlled violence and power , i feel like rides the coordinators and his staff around him rather then take the wheel himself

I don't think MT has as much X and O knowledge and that is why he leans on assis coaches.

fansince'76
06-29-2015, 10:07 PM
How exactly was "Martyball disciple extraordinaire" Cowher an X's and O's guy? Smashmouth football worked great until some semblance of a passing game was required, and that's where he inevitably failed (over and over and over again). The guy lost FOUR AFCCGs at HOME, and at least two of those should have been slam dunk wins (Chargers in '94 and Patriots in '01).

Whenever smashmouth football all of a sudden didn't work, he repeatedly proved completely incapable of changing things up, and an inability to change things up is also one of the biggest criticisms of Tomlin, it seems to me.

And as far as the "Cowher's guys" argument goes, see my earlier post about Harrison. Tomlin is no great shakes himself, but what does it say that he's won and appeared in as many Super Bowls as Cowher in half the time? Actually, less than half the time, seeing how his last appearance was five years ago now. And unlike Cowher, Tomlin still hasn't had a losing season, even though the defense has seen a massive decline over the last several years.

Not really trying to defend Tomlin here, but I'm really tired of the over-romanticized revisionist history of Cowher as a great coach. He was a good coach with a ton of flaws (the biggest being his pigheaded insistence that he could win without a QB and wasting a half a decade and the Bus' prime backing Kordell Stewart as "his guy" at QB), and that was about it.

tube517
06-30-2015, 07:59 AM
I can understand the criticisms of Tomlin. His teams (especially lately) being under prepared/sloppy vs bad teams with losing records is definitely a danger to my BP.

However, that 2010 team played with a crap OL (injures) and 4 games without a real QB. Most teams could have folded then. But, he kept that team together. The pass defense was a huge question mark coming off a 2009 nightmare.

Could they have won vs Green Bay? Sure. But, if we had won, that would have been just another SB with "Cowher's guys" to some people. Yes, Cowher turned over some great players to Tomlin. There is no doubt about that. But, if you criticize coaches for failures, give them props for doing something right.

And, Cowher had some great moments, no doubt. But he, like Tomlin, is no Chuck Noll.

GBMelBlount
06-30-2015, 08:03 AM
It's hard to compare imo.

Cowher came farther with less to work with and had fewer years with a top shelf quarterback.

Tomlin inherited one of the best teams in the NFL and has had a top shelf QB his entire tenure.

Right now I give the edge to Cowher due to where he started. However I think Tomlin will probably come out on top if he has 3 to 5 more years with Ben and most of the current roster.

polamalubeast
06-30-2015, 08:04 AM
I can understand the criticisms of Tomlin. His teams (especially lately) being under prepared/sloppy vs bad teams with losing records is definitely a danger to my BP.

However, that 2010 team played with a crap OL (injures) and 4 games without a real QB. Most teams could have folded then. But, he kept that team together. The pass defense was a huge question mark coming off a 2009 nightmare.

Could they have won vs Green Bay? Sure. But, if we had won, that would have been just another SB with "Cowher's guys" to some people. Yes, Cowher turned over some great players to Tomlin. There is no doubt about that. But, if you criticize coaches for failures, give them props for doing something right.

And, Cowher had some great moments, no doubt. But he, like Tomlin, is no Chuck Noll.

2010 was the best coaching job by Tomlin in his career and one of the best I've seen in the nfl

It was very impressive.

fansince'76
06-30-2015, 08:07 AM
Cowher came farther with less to work with and had fewer years with a top shelf quarterback.

Which, again, was largely his own fault. He passed on Brees in '01 (thankfully, Big Snack panned out) and would have done the same with Roethlisberger in '04 if Dan Rooney hadn't overruled him. And God only knows how long Roethlisberger would have languished on the bench had Turnover Tommy not gotten injured.

TeeTee
06-30-2015, 11:50 AM
How exactly was "Martyball disciple extraordinaire" Cowher an X's and O's guy? Smashmouth football worked great until some semblance of a passing game was required, and that's where he inevitably failed (over and over and over again). The guy lost FOUR AFCCGs at HOME, and at least two of those should have been slam dunk wins (Chargers in '94 and Patriots in '01).

Whenever smashmouth football all of a sudden didn't work, he repeatedly proved completely incapable of changing things up, and an inability to change things up is also one of the biggest criticisms of Tomlin, it seems to me.

And as far as the "Cowher's guys" argument goes, see my earlier post about Harrison. Tomlin is no great shakes himself, but what does it say that he's won and appeared in as many Super Bowls as Cowher in half the time? Actually, less than half the time, seeing how his last appearance was five years ago now. And unlike Cowher, Tomlin still hasn't had a losing season, even though the defense has seen a massive decline over the last several years.

Not really trying to defend Tomlin here, but I'm really tired of the over-romanticized revisionist history of Cowher as a great coach. He was a good coach with a ton of flaws (the biggest being his pigheaded insistence that he could win without a QB and wasting a half a decade and the Bus' prime backing Kordell Stewart as "his guy" at QB), and that was about it.

:amen:

TeeTee
06-30-2015, 12:01 PM
Which, again, was largely his own fault. He passed on Brees in '01 (thankfully, Big Snack panned out) and would have done the same with Roethlisberger in '04 if Dan Rooney hadn't overruled him. And God only knows how long Roethlisberger would have languished on the bench had Turnover Tommy not gotten injured.

Nailed it again, Fan. When Cowher came in as HC in 1991, he was a breath of fresh air. I remember we beat Houston week one, on the road, as a pretty big underdog. That was a sign of things to come. He put together some really solid teams. But, as many of us are often fond of saying about Tomlin winning with Cowher players, Cowher himself had the cupboard pretty full from Noll players. Let's not forget, Cowher inherited players such as Woodson, O'Donnell, Hoge, Lloyd, Lake, Foster, Green, Mills, Nickerson, Everett, John Jackson, Dawson, Haselrig, Strzelczyk, et al. How many probowlers is that?

86WARD
06-30-2015, 12:21 PM
When Cowher's smashball didn't work he resorted to a trick play to jump start the offense...

tube517
06-30-2015, 01:51 PM
Nailed it again, Fan. When Cowher came in as HC in 1991, he was a breath of fresh air. I remember we beat Houston week one, on the road, as a pretty big underdog. That was a sign of things to come. He put together some really solid teams. But, as many of us are often fond of saying about Tomlin winning with Cowher players, Cowher himself had the cupboard pretty full from Noll players. Let's not forget, Cowher inherited players such as Woodson, O'Donnell, Hoge, Lloyd, Lake, Foster, Green, Mills, Nickerson, Everett, John Jackson, Dawson, Haselrig, Strzelczyk, et al. How many probowlers is that?

This.

tube517
06-30-2015, 01:58 PM
Which, again, was largely his own fault. He passed on Brees in '01 (thankfully, Big Snack panned out) and would have done the same with Roethlisberger in '04 if Dan Rooney hadn't overruled him. And God only knows how long Roethlisberger would have languished on the bench had Turnover Tommy not gotten injured.

Also, they passed over an (aging but still effective) Joe Montana for Neil O'Donnell. Now, as I said, he was aging but he and 103 year old Marcus Allen took a less talented KC team to one game of the Super Bowl. I"m not sure it was just Cowher and whoever else made the personnnel decisions but chalk that one up as well

See the "Who the Steelers passed up as QB over the years" thread.

TeeTee
06-30-2015, 02:12 PM
Cowher's mishandling of Kordell Stewart was a debacle as well. They would've been better off keeping Slash where he was and starting Jim Miller at QB.

Understatement alert. I loathed that after Cowher made the mistake of making KS starting QB, he refused to reverse course, even giving him a huge new contract when he had TWO years remaining on his current deal but was playing like shit. He pushed for the new, early contract to boost Kordell's confidence, but it was FAIL. I actually kind of hated Cowher the years he was force feeding KS on us. KS did have ONE probowl year (but lost the championship game to Denver, at home, after being up and Bettis was churning out 5 yards per carry when KS threw into TRIPLE coverage and Romanowski give him the "DUH" face to end the half.

polamalubeast
06-30-2015, 03:08 PM
Some comments below this video



lumpy pants20h Ago
Tomlin won early with Cowhers players. As Cowhers players retired, tomlins success has dwindled. That is a fact. Tomlin brings nothing to the team except cool cliches. No input on offense, non on defense. Not a motivator. Just a figurehead
The team has lost it identity as being tough and physical. Nobody is afraid of these Steelers anymore. Little discipline or accountability, that's why the players love him. He knows his roll with this team. He was hired for 1 reason. He has little to no say in hirings and firings. He's a mouthpiece for the franchise. His coordinators are allowed to do their thing. He has the most secure job in the nfl. He won't be fired. He may end up with lots of wins simply due to longevity, not skill set. Until Ben retires, tomlin is living off cowhers players. Tomlin won't be able to be compared to kill or cowher until he drafts his own franchise qb

Mojouw
06-30-2015, 04:49 PM
And the only reason he had one at all is because Dan Rooney pulled rank on him during the '04 Draft.

And I still say we almost lost Super Bowl XL because he insisted coming out in his usual ultra-conservative Martyball-lite turtleball mode. You'd think that after blowing the Broncos' doors off in the AFCCG, Roethlisberger's confidence would have been peaking, yet he played that game scared to death. Think Cowher didn't have a huge hand in that, especially after watching O'Donnell hand over his first Super Bowl to the Cowboys on a silver platter? I do.

I also vividly recall a sideline soundbite by Roethlisberger from the highlights of that game, which, IMO, said it all: "Let's play to win, coach, not play not to lose." Thankfully, the Seahawks played like shit as well and we got a couple of calls our way.

Again, the guy just did not know how to effectively manage his QBs.

This, a million times this! Cowher couldn't shake his Marty-ball tendencies in the biggest games!

Also, I don't get the whole "Tomlin is a figurehead and Cowher was a FOOTBALL COACH!" thing. Cowher was just as reliant on his coordinators to gameplan as Tomlin is. The biggest difference appears to be their demeanor on the sidelines. I really feel that is simply a function of where things are at now a days. There are not a lot of yellers and screamers roaming the NFL sidelines anymore.

tube517
06-30-2015, 04:56 PM
This, a million times this! Cowher couldn't shake his Marty-ball tendencies in the biggest games!

Also, I don't get the whole "Tomlin is a figurehead and Cowher was a FOOTBALL COACH!" thing. Cowher was just as reliant on his coordinators to gameplan as Tomlin is. The biggest difference appears to be their demeanor on the sidelines. I really feel that is simply a function of where things are at now a days. There are not a lot of yellers and screamers roaming the NFL sidelines anymore.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KasM38-I0Ow :chuckle:

fansince'76
06-30-2015, 05:24 PM
The team has lost it identity as being tough and physical.

:rolleyes:

Uh, that pretty much sums up the league as a whole nowadays. Seems to me Steelers defensive players were getting fined right and left up until quite recently. Ask James Harrison and Ryan Clark and even Troy Polamalu about that.

It was also the primary reason they were the only team that didn't rubber stamp the current CBA that everyone else and their brother are now bitching about now that the Steelers aren't the only ones getting bent over by the Commish's office on a regular basis anymore.


Tomlin won't be able to be compared to kill or cowher until he drafts his own franchise qb

Again, please. If it had been left up to Cowher, we would have drafted another OT in the first round in 2004. Ben's as much of a "Cowher guy" as Harrison is. IOW, he isn't. :coffee:

polamalubeast
07-02-2015, 10:20 AM
another comment.....



Ryan Kowatch10h Ago
Not contest...cowher. Only reason tomlin has a SB is cause of a team cowher built. Once those players left and got older the team has gone downhill....way downhill. They are finally starting to get better. If it wasn't for having Ben and getting lucky with brown and bell steelers would still suck which I hate to say.

tube517
07-02-2015, 10:46 AM
another comment.....


Ryan Kowatch10h Ago
Not contest...cowher. Only reason tomlin has a SB is cause of a team cowher built. Once those players left and got older the team has gone downhill....way downhill. They are finally starting to get better. If it wasn't for having Ben and getting lucky with brown and bell steelers would still suck which I hate to say.

:rofl2:

Where was this 14 year old when Cowher went through dogcrap years in 98 (losing season), 99 (losing season), 03 (5 game losing streak and losing season), 06 (2-6 start). Losing to a team with Stan Freaking Humprhies at QB and having a TE who averaged 9 catches a season for his 11 year career beat your top rated defense with an untouched TD and a "Coconut Juice" celebration in the AFC Championship game.

hawaiiansteeler
07-16-2015, 10:20 PM
http://gif.mocksession.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/TOMLIN-GUNZ.gif

tube517
07-16-2015, 11:49 PM
https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQ64ObnY4f6BL4ctVmd5BmaII32rpop3 wZctMqeXJzaG9rw_JbF_g

Mojouw
07-17-2015, 12:53 PM
Ryan Kowatch10h Ago
Not contest...cowher. Only reason tomlin has a SB is cause of a team cowher built. Once those players left and got older the team has gone downhill....way downhill. They are finally starting to get better. If it wasn't for having Ben and getting lucky with brown and bell steelers would still suck which I hate to say.

I love how the haters argue that they "Screw up" draft picks when things go bad and they "got lucky" when they go good. Kinda allows you to hate things no matter what!

fansince'76
07-17-2015, 02:50 PM
One of the key members of the '08 run (and arguably the most imortant as he was also the DPOY that year) was James Harrison. Cowher not only cut him 3 times, but he also sat on the bench behind Porter until Cowher left. I also think it's more than a safe bet that Harrison would have continued to be a bench warmer had Cowher stayed.

Once again, how exactly was Harrison a "Cowher guy?"

zulater
07-17-2015, 02:56 PM
I like them both, both were excellent coaches. I wont disparage one to prop up the other.

polamalubeast
07-17-2015, 03:04 PM
Cowher not deserve the credit for the pick of Roethlisberger in 2004 but he deserves a lot of credit for the pick of Polamalu in 2003.

The Steelers needed to make a Trade up(27 to 16) to have Polamalu

86WARD
07-17-2015, 06:25 PM
Cowher nor Tomlin were GMs. Sure they have input but not final say. I think both get too much credit for "picks."

st33lersguy
07-17-2015, 07:42 PM
If Tomlin wins another Super Bowl, he will probably be considered better by default of having more Super Bowl wins. I do like the direction the team is headed in and if enough of the young guys on defense step up, I don't see how the Super Bowl is out of question.

teegre
07-18-2015, 10:05 AM
I like them both, both were excellent coaches. I wont disparage one to prop up the other.

Thank you.

That is the best response to this (seemingly neverending) discussion.

Craic
07-18-2015, 01:22 PM
If I had to rank one above the other . . . it'd be real tough, but I think I'd have to put Tomlin just a hair over Cowher at this point. Cowher had the ability to get everything from his players and then some. Go back and look at the O line in 2004. There's no reason we go 15-1 with that line. Two 2-teamers had to step in from the beginning, and Ben is in his first year. That was all Cowher's ability to squeeze every last drop from his players. The problem is, he rested on that too much, and it exposed him when they went up against more talented teams (AFCCGs). It also caused serious problems when he lost his top players.

By comparison, Tomlin gets a lot out of his players, but he doesn't depend purely on motivation to make his team win. As a result, when he loses talent (like over the last three years) he is still able to be in the playoff hunt every year. Unlike the middle part of Cowher's tenure, where we had two losing seasons and three seasons without a playoff appearance, in the same place in Tomlin's tenure, we had no losing seasons and went only 2 years without a playoff appearance. And, I would argue, at a time when more teams were looking for the same type of players as the Steelers.

But, does that mean I think Tomlin is actually the better coach? No. Tomlin has a franchise QB. Cowher, for whatever reason, didn't, through this part in both of their coaching careers. Give Ben to Cowher when he first took the team, and give O'Donell to Tomlin, and Cowher walks away with two SB wins. Tomlin loses the SB against Arizona (The defense, I think still would have gotten him there).

All in all, they're in the same class. And we are privileged to have an organization that can pick Head Coaches. Our biggest worry should be what we'll do in four to five years when Ben hits the end of his ability to effectively play in the NFL.

LLT
07-18-2015, 02:38 PM
After careful deliberation and thoughtful contemplation, the greatest Steelers Coach will have been....


Chuck Noll.

hawaiiansteeler
07-18-2015, 07:17 PM
After careful deliberation and thoughtful contemplation, the greatest Steelers Coach will have been....

Chuck Noll.

hard to argue with that conclusion...

http://www.steelers.com/assets/images/imported/PIT/photos/clubimages/2014/06-June/tempChuckNoll_23--nfl_mezz_1280_1024.jpg

jb500ex
07-19-2015, 09:48 AM
If I had to rank one above the other . . . it'd be real tough, but I think I'd have to put Tomlin just a hair over Cowher at this point. Cowher had the ability to get everything from his players and then some. Go back and look at the O line in 2004. There's no reason we go 15-1 with that line. Two 2-teamers had to step in from the beginning, and Ben is in his first year. That was all Cowher's ability to squeeze every last drop from his players. The problem is, he rested on that too much, and it exposed him when they went up against more talented teams (AFCCGs). It also caused serious problems when he lost his top players.

By comparison, Tomlin gets a lot out of his players, but he doesn't depend purely on motivation to make his team win. As a result, when he loses talent (like over the last three years) he is still able to be in the playoff hunt every year. Unlike the middle part of Cowher's tenure, where we had two losing seasons and three seasons without a playoff appearance, in the same place in Tomlin's tenure, we had no losing seasons and went only 2 years without a playoff appearance. And, I would argue, at a time when more teams were looking for the same type of players as the Steelers.

But, does that mean I think Tomlin is actually the better coach? No. Tomlin has a franchise QB. Cowher, for whatever reason, didn't, through this part in both of their coaching careers. Give Ben to Cowher when he first took the team, and give O'Donell to Tomlin, and Cowher walks away with two SB wins. Tomlin loses the SB against Arizona (The defense, I think still would have gotten him there).

All in all, they're in the same class. And we are privileged to have an organization that can pick Head Coaches. Our biggest worry should be what we'll do in four to five years when Ben hits the end of his ability to effectively play in the NFL.3 yrs no playoffs for Tomlin not 2

Godfather
07-19-2015, 03:10 PM
They're both good and I'd rank them about the same. They have similar strengths and weaknesses and similar records. I think Tomlin will eventually be better because there's a good chance that he'll win a second Lombardi and that will put him ahead of Cowher.

Craic
07-19-2015, 05:36 PM
3 yrs no playoffs for Tomlin not 2

No.

Note the context:


Unlike the middle part of Cowher's tenure, where we had two losing seasons and three seasons without a playoff appearance, in the same place in Tomlin's tenure, we had nolosing seasons and went only 2 years without a playoff appearance.

I pretty clearly meant the rebuilding cycle both coaches went through beginning 6 or 7 years into their careers. That being said, my point isn't to disparage Cowher, but to say that all-in-all, they get pretty much the same results from two distinct methods of coaching.

zulater
07-19-2015, 05:37 PM
They're both good and I'd rank them about the same. They have similar strengths and weaknesses and similar records. I think Tomlin will eventually be better because there's a good chance that he'll win a second Lombardi and that will put him ahead of Cowher.

Can't argue with that.

teegre
07-19-2015, 07:46 PM
I think Tomlin will eventually be better because there's a good chance that he'll win a second Lombardi and that will put him ahead of Cowher.

I just read this... and, I re-read the initial question...

...and, YES, Tomlin with win at least one** more (which could put him "ahead" of Cowher).



**(I'm thinking that the Steelers threepeat in 2015, 2016, & 2017.)