I think Peterson has a point (related to AB)

[TeeTee]

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2479410-internet-reacts-to-adrian-petersons-twitter-rant-about-contract-with-vikings?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=newsletter&utm_campaign=nfl

When my buddies were screaming over a potential AB hold out, saying he "signed the contract and he would abide by it" I brought up the same point AP did: Why do we feel players should abide by every contract they sign, but it's fine and dandy for teams to NOT abide by the same contract if they feel they don't want to?

If a team feels it is within their right to ask for a pay cut (or an outright cutting) should players not be able to ask for a more appropriate deal when they are outperforming their current one? It should not be a case of operating in double standards. I think AP has a point. Now, this does not mean I want AB to demand a new deal, not at all. But if the trend stays where it is going, they should give him a new deal long before the current one expires. It doesn't have to be this year, but he is currently playing better football at his position than ANY player in the entire NFL and is not even being paid top 10 $. Be fair.

[fansince'76]

AB is completely free to hold out. Problem is, he still has 3 years on his current deal, he can be fined a substantial amount of money for every day of mandatory OTAs/camp he misses and as such, has ZERO leverage at the moment.

On the flip side of the argument, does anyone else here still vividly recall all the gnashing of teeth when they let Wallace walk and how, according to many, AB's production up to that point was only a byproduct of Wallace lining up on the opposite side and taking the top off of coverages and how AB was given way too much money for a guy who was "probably going to be a career #2 WR?" I do.

AB got his current deal based on future potential, by and large. He really hadn't done enough up to that point to warrant the $8 million per season his current contract averages when he signed it, so aren't the Rooneys kinda owed something here for taking a gamble and giving him that much in good faith to begin with?

And if I'm Peterson, I'm thanking my lucky stars that I'm not sitting in a jail cell right now (never mind still playing in the NFL), because if he were a regular ham-n-egger, he would be. I also don't take much stock in the musings of a guy who once made the ridiculous comparison of the relationship between NFL teams and their players to Civil War-era plantation owners and slaves. Peterson is just another example of a professional athlete who would be much better served by staying off of Twitter entirely.

And if Peterson or any other NFL player has that big of a problem with it, they can always join the 9-to-5 world where "at-will" employment reigns supreme. And where, in all likelihood, they will make a whole hell of a lot less...

[Steeldude]

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2479410-internet-reacts-to-adrian-petersons-twitter-rant-about-contract-with-vikings?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=newsletter&utm_campaign=nfl

When my buddies were screaming over a potential AB hold out, saying he "signed the contract and he would abide by it" I brought up the same point AP did: Why do we feel players should abide by every contract they sign, but it's fine and dandy for teams to NOT abide by the same contract if they feel they don't want to?

If a team feels it is within their right to ask for a pay cut (or an outright cutting) should players not be able to ask for a more appropriate deal when they are outperforming their current one? It should not be a case of operating in double standards. I think AP has a point. Now, this does not mean I want AB to demand a new deal, not at all. But if the trend stays where it is going, they should give him a new deal long before the current one expires. It doesn't have to be this year, but he is currently playing better football at his position than ANY player in the entire NFL and is not even being paid top 10 $. Be fair.

Get rid of all signing bonuses.

If you are injured then you are not paid.

Dock pay for dropped passes and fumbles.

[steelreserve]

If a team feels it is within their right to ask for a pay cut (or an outright cutting) should players not be able to ask for a more appropriate deal when they are outperforming their current one? It should not be a case of operating in double standards. I think AP has a point. Now, this does not mean I want AB to demand a new deal, not at all. But if the trend stays where it is going, they should give him a new deal long before the current one expires. It doesn't have to be this year, but he is currently playing better football at his position than ANY player in the entire NFL and is not even being paid top 10 $. Be fair.


Because it's up to players to earn their pay, and a HUGE number of them that sign big contracts are overpaid. Far more than are underpaid, I'd bet. That's why teams should be able to release them. That's also why there are signing bonuses, and why guaranteed money is a huge sticking point in contracts.

Not to mention in AB's case, $8M is more than fair by any standard. Being paid fairly is not the same as having to set a world record for highest-paying idiot contract every time someone has a good season. Brown traded some possible future leverage for security and to get paid a lot NOW, so this is the result. Time to deal.

Another reason why I think this is OK is because I want both the players and the team to do what I want, and I couldn't care less whether it's a double standard. I don't watch football because I want to see everyone be highly paid and the contracts be fair for everyone. I want to see the team win the Super Bowl. If Lamarr Woodley is getting in the way of that, then fuck him and his contract. If Brown starts causing problems by going back on a deal, then fuck him too. Although I'm willing to be a little more tolerant with him because what he does on the field helps us more. None of this is rocket science. Just be a little more self-interested and it'll all become clear.

[TeeTee]

AB is completely free to hold out. Problem is, he still has 3 years on his current deal, he can be fined a substantial amount of money for every day of mandatory OTAs/camp he misses and as such, has ZERO leverage at the moment.

On the flip side of the argument, does anyone else here still vividly recall all the gnashing of teeth when they let Wallace walk and how, according to many, AB's production up to that point was only a byproduct of Wallace lining up on the opposite side and taking the top off of coverages and how AB was given way too much money for a guy who was "probably going to be a career #2 WR?" I do.

AB got his current deal based on future potential, by and large. He really hadn't done enough up to that point to warrant the $8 million per season his current contract averages when he signed it, so aren't the Rooneys kinda owed something here for taking a gamble and giving him that much in good faith to begin with?

And if I'm Peterson, I'm thanking my lucky stars that I'm not sitting in a jail cell right now (never mind still playing in the NFL), because if he were a regular ham-n-egger, he would be. I also don't take much stock in the musings of a guy who once made the ridiculous comparison of the relationship between NFL teams and their players to Civil War-era plantation owners and slaves. Peterson is just another example of a professional athlete who would be much better served by staying off of Twitter entirely.

And if Peterson or any other NFL player has that big of a problem with it, they can always join the 9-to-5 world where "at-will" employment reigns supreme. And where, in all likelihood, they will make a whole hell of a lot less...

Fan Since, I never meant to imply it would be prudent for AB to sit out at this point, and I certainly don't want him to. I was just saying I understand AP's point about the double standard often on display in the NFL when it comes to contracts. And let's not forget that the owners make massive income off the labor of the players. They deserve to make big $ because they generate far more $ than they get paid. That's how America works: If your work generates huge $, you get a pile of $ yourself. If a movie start's flicks make $100 million plus, then they get a pile of $ because of it.

[fansince'76]

That's how America works: If your work generates huge $, you get a pile of $ yourself.

Not necessarily. Are you familiar with the concept of a "shop right" as it pertains to corporate research and development? People have their ideas/inventions essentially stolen by their employers legally all the time and are not compensated for it above and beyond their regular salary. Hell, in many cases they have to sign an intellectual property agreement (http://www.johnsoncontrols.com/content/dam/WWW/jci/be/global_workplace_solutions/New_Hire/New_Hire_Documents/Employee_Intellectual_Property_Agreement.pdf) willfully agreeing to such an arrangement as a condition of employment.

You'll have to forgive me if I don't feel even the slightest bit of sympathy for the "plight" of the poor downtrodden NFL player. Things are tough all over, as they say.

[TeeTee]

Get rid of all signing bonuses.

If you are injured then you are not paid.

Dock pay for dropped passes and fumbles.

I am pretty sure those changes would never get thumbs up from Players' Union. :bounce:

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Not necessarily. Are you familiar with the concept of a "shop right" as it pertains to corporate research and development? People have their ideas/inventions essentially stolen by their employers legally all the time and are not compensated for it above and beyond their regular salary. Hell, in many cases they have to sign an intellectual property agreement (http://www.johnsoncontrols.com/content/dam/WWW/jci/be/global_workplace_solutions/New_Hire/New_Hire_Documents/Employee_Intellectual_Property_Agreement.pdf) willfully agreeing to such an arrangement as a condition of employment.

You'll have to forgive me if I don't feel even the slightest bit of sympathy for the "plight" of the poor downtrodden NFL player. Things are tough all over, as they say.

Yes, I am familiar. Having corporations trying to screw over people to make the corporation more profit is nothing new; if they can get away with it they will. But, by in large, if the producer is really needed and there is no getting around paying him what he is worth, he gets to make major jack. The players used to get on the major short end of the stick. Now they are being compensated more fairly. And let's not forget: It won't be the owners who can't walk without a cane by the time they are 50, like Earl Campbell and many more. I am all for those who sacrifice and create the wealth getting their fair share. It wasn't anything short of sinful as to how they owners refused to give the players any kind of fair pension and health care program after they retired - nothing short of a dirty sin.

[hawaiiansteeler]

Adrian Peterson Is Wrong (Sorta): NFL Players Have Great Power...

Matt Chatham

...They Just Don't Use It

Adrian Peterson went on a Twitter rant yesterday. Because when you plead out of a felony child abuse charge that makes you miss a season and then try to force your team to trade you, meeting your wants and needs is right at the top of everyone's list. Although his outburst on social media certainly isn't going to change anything for himself, it's worth noting that some of AP's frustrations are founded and pretty common amongst players - even if he's the worst possible spokesman right now.

The heart of Peterson's argument - at least the parts that aren't pretty transparently about him not being able to leave the Vikings - is that the lack of guaranteed contracts in the NFL is a major problem for players. In general, I share that frustration - as do many players past and present. I'm not going to rehash the entire string of tweets (found here, if you like https://twitter.com/AdrianPeterson), but the following couple posts hit on the idea of a power imbalance - an idea that needs a lil' tuning up.

A lill crazy how one side has so much power that they can do as they please when it come to the contract! But when the other-side (player's)

The appearance of a power imbalance in the NFL universe in favor of teams and owners is real. The idea that there is an actual imbalance of power...not so real.

Wait. What?

Yes, teams currently exert a ton of leverage over players - they cut them from their contracts when they want instead of honoring them to their completion (as Peterson mentions in his other tweets). The league also has a kangaroo court of discipline that's a breeding ground for corruption and hypocrisy - exactly the opposite of everything it publicly purports to be. But that's just because players don't (and didn't) use the leverage that they have to take those ridiculous aspects of our league off the table.

If you keep what power you have holstered, you can't rightfully complain about the outcome of any fight. Use it or lose it. The greatest power that exists on either side of any negotiation between the league and players is that the players don't have to play. To repeat: they don't have to play. Star players playing is the lead source of all the revenue in the NFL money machine. QB Tom Brady is worth considerably more to attendance and TV ratings than QB Bob Grady would be....as is DE JJ Watt more so than DE RJ Spot, and on and on.

If the star players didn't play, broadcasters and advertisers would rage, Vegas and fantasy football league angst would boil, merch sales would plummet, and league panic will soon follow. Any terms under consideration would shift in players' favor considerably. Without a doubt. Until that time, the gains in any negotiation will be, at the very best, modest.

to read rest of article:

http://network.yardbarker.com/author/article_external/18875624?widget=true

[86WARD]

Leverage by "not playing" because you're a "star" really isn't leverage...unless you get multiple players on board with that strategy.

[silver & black]

Cry me a river! I don't give two shits about the "plight" of the poor little professional athlete that "only" has a very short time to make their money. Ya know what?... they make more in one f**king year than I will have made in my entire life of working.

No.... I don't get hit and smacked or get beaned with a 90 mph baseball, or run the risk of concussion. I also don't make millions of $$$ a year. What I do is get up at 4:00 every morning and haul my ass to work by 5:00-6:00 am every day. I put in 10-12 hr. days. My back hurts, my legs hurt, my shoulders hurt, I'm stressed and under pressure every day to "get it done". I will have to do this well into my life. They will get to cruise through life at 35 years of age without ever lifting a finger to do any "real" work or understand how it is for us regular Joes.

No, I have not one iota of sympathy for any of them. Face it, 99% of all them would be in jail, living in the street, selling drugs or flipping burgers if they weren't blessed with the ability to tackle, hit a baseball, shoot a basketball or skate with a f**king stick and a hunk of rubber. BOO F***KING HOO!

Your (pro athletes) complaints make me laugh!

[TeeTee]

Because it's up to players to earn their pay, and a HUGE number of them that sign big contracts are overpaid. Far more than are underpaid, I'd bet..

You're worth what the market is willing to pay you. If you really are overpaid in the NFL you will have to restructure or get cut. It's that simple. If a team is willing to pay you $10 million a season, that is what you're worth.

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Cry me a river! I don't give two shits about the "plight" of the poor little professional athlete that "only" has a very short time to make their money. Ya know what?... they make more in one f**king year than I will have made in my entire life of working.

No.... I don't get hit and smacked or get beaned with a 90 mph baseball, or run the risk of concussion. I also don't make millions of $$$ a year. What I do is get up at 4:00 every morning and haul my ass to work by 5:00-6:00 am every day. I put in 10-12 hr. days. My back hurts, my legs hurt, my shoulders hurt, I'm stressed and under pressure every day to "get it done". I will have to do this well into my life. They will get to cruise through life at 35 years of age without ever lifting a finger to do any "real" work or understand how it is for us regular Joes.

No, I have not one iota of sympathy for any of them. Face it, 99% of all them would be in jail, living in the street, selling drugs or flipping burgers if they weren't blessed with the ability to tackle, hit a baseball, shoot a basketball or skate with a f**king stick and a hunk of rubber. BOO F***KING HOO!

Your (pro athletes) complaints make me laugh!

If you had their skills, you would be paid like the pro athletes are. The market dictates what you are worth. Also, it's not as if they don't have to work hard. At the lower levels, skill alone can make you succeed, at the pro level, you are putting in tons of hard work in order to excel at that level. Do you ever work out as hard as James Harrison or A. Brown? My guess is you do not.

[silver & black]

You're worth what the market is willing to pay you. If you really are overpaid in the NFL you will have to restructure or get cut. It's that simple. If a team is willing to pay you $10 million a season, that is what you're worth.

- - - Updated - - -



If you had their skills, you would be paid like the pro athletes are. The market dictates what you are worth. Also, it's not as if they don't have to work hard. At the lower levels, skill alone can make you succeed, at the pro level, you are putting in tons of hard work in order to excel at that level. Do you ever work out as hard as James Harrison or A. Brown? My guess is you do not.

I don't think I ever said they didn't put in the work, did I? I said I don't give a fat rat's ass about their complaints.

Do I ever work out as hard as James Harrison? Hell no! Why would I? Am I going to get a bazillion $$$ if I do? NO!

I'm no stranger to working hard at a sport. I competed at a fairly high level of martial arts for 25 years of my life. I was a part of the precursor to what you now know as MMA. So what?

The thing is, I actually have to go to a JOB that I don't really like every day so I can keep a roof over my head, food on my table and gas in my 18 year old junk ass truck. I don't live in an "estate" with 5 acres of land around it in a gated community and drive 12 cars ranging from Lambos to Ferraris to Rolls Royce.

I'm sorry but, for those blessed, smiled upon, spoiled little bitches that have been given the gift of phenomenal athleticism to be able to "play" professional sports, and then to listen to them bitch moan and complain about an amount of money that I will never see in my lifetime, pisses me off!

I understand about market value just fine. That isn't what I'm arguing about. Hell, I'm not even arguing! I just put my opinion out there, nothing more.

[TeeTee]

I don't think I ever said they didn't put in the work, did I? I said I don't give a fat rat's ass about their complaints.

Do I ever work out as hard as James Harrison? Hell no! Why would I? Am I going to get a bazillion $$$ if I do? NO!

I'm no stranger to working hard at a sport. I competed at a fairly high level of martial arts for 25 years of my life. I was a part of the precursor to what you now know as MMA. So what?

The thing is, I actually have to go to a JOB that I don't really like every day so I can keep a roof over my head, food on my table and gas in my 18 year old junk ass truck. I don't live in an "estate" with 5 acres of land around it in a gated community and drive 12 cars ranging from Lambos to Ferraris to Rolls Royce.

I'm sorry but, for those blessed, smiled upon, spoiled little bitches that have been given the gift of phenomenal athleticism to be able to "play" professional sports, and then to listen to them bitch moan and complain about an amount of money that I will never see in my lifetime, pisses me off!

I understand about market value just fine. That isn't what I'm arguing about. Hell, I'm not even arguing! I just put my opinion out there, nothing more.

And it is your right to be ticked off if you want to be. I am with you on not being a fan of them whining when they have the world by the nads. But, why not be angry at the owners, some of who have done even less than these players, in terms of earning their wealth. What did Art Rooney 2 do to gain his $2 billion (that is 1 million x 2,000) other than to be born? Granted, he doesn't flaunt his wealth or complain, so maybe that is the difference in your mind.

[silver & black]

And it is your right to be ticked off if you want to be. I am with you on not being a fan of them whining when they have the world by the nads. But, why not be angry at the owners, some of who have done even less than these players, in terms of earning their wealth. What did Art Rooney 2 do to gain his $2 billion (that is 1 million x 2,000) other than to be born? Granted, he doesn't flaunt his wealth or complain, so maybe that is the difference in your mind.

Come on... the difference from the owners of NFL (pro sports teams) and the players is vast. Granted, I'm sure they had a lot of advantages in life, but most are educated, savvy business men, unlike the hood rats that infest professional sports. Yes, that statement was a sweeping, broad brush painting type thing to say, but you know as well as I do it hits home far more often than not.

I really don't care if the owners pay them millions of $$$. I just get tired of the gold plated little babies complaining because they think the should get another million on top of the millions they already have. They should take a step back and remember they are just a tackle, catch, touchdown away from being just like the rest of their friends they grew up with. They have so much more than most everyone else that has to work their ass off just to survive, and they whine and cry about more. F**k em!

[Lady Steel]

Cry me a river! I don't give two shits about the "plight" of the poor little professional athlete that "only" has a very short time to make their money. Ya know what?... they make more in one f**king year than I will have made in my entire life of working.

No.... I don't get hit and smacked or get beaned with a 90 mph baseball, or run the risk of concussion. I also don't make millions of $$$ a year. What I do is get up at 4:00 every morning and haul my ass to work by 5:00-6:00 am every day. I put in 10-12 hr. days. My back hurts, my legs hurt, my shoulders hurt, I'm stressed and under pressure every day to "get it done". I will have to do this well into my life. They will get to cruise through life at 35 years of age without ever lifting a finger to do any "real" work or understand how it is for us regular Joes.

No, I have not one iota of sympathy for any of them. Face it, 99% of all them would be in jail, living in the street, selling drugs or flipping burgers if they weren't blessed with the ability to tackle, hit a baseball, shoot a basketball or skate with a f**king stick and a hunk of rubber. BOO F***KING HOO!

Your (pro athletes) complaints make me laugh!


https://toemail.files.wordpress.com/2011/01/audience-clapping2.gif


I agree with your stance wholeheartedly. I also work my ass off and don't get paid millions of dollars. I work 7 and 8 day stretches and sometimes work 16 hour days. But, I'm just a lowly nurse who wants to help people. I don't drink and drive, I don't do drugs, I don't beat men up in elevators, I don't engage in dog fighting, and I don't cheat at my job. I don't even get on the internet while at work unless I'm on my breaks, and then it's only on my phone. It's actually not that difficult not to do those things. People choose to do the terrible things they do. Sucks to be them.

[TeeTee]

https://toemail.files.wordpress.com/2011/01/audience-clapping2.gif


I agree with your stance wholeheartedly. I also work my ass off and don't get paid millions of dollars. I work 7 and 8 day stretches and sometimes work 16 hour days. But, I'm just a lowly nurse who wants to help people. I don't drink and drive, I don't do drugs, I don't beat men up in elevators, I don't engage in dog fighting, and I don't cheat at my job. I don't even get on the internet while at work unless I'm on my breaks, and then it's only on my phone. It's actually not that difficult not to do those things. People choose to do the terrible things they do. Sucks to be them.

I respect a hard-working nurse, as I have a few in my family (mom and sister). My point has zero to do with dissing on anyone working hard and not making the millions players do. That is not my point at all. My only point is for the league to not apply double standards but they try to. I see fans get all uppity when a player wants a new deal early, as if they have no honor if they don't stay with a signed contract. But on the other side, teams go back on contracts all the time, so I guess their word means nothing. Double standard.

[steelreserve]

I respect a hard-working nurse, as I have a few in my family (mom and sister). My point has zero to do with dissing on anyone working hard and not making the millions players do. That is not my point at all. My only point is for the league to not apply double standards but they try to. I see fans get all uppity when a player wants a new deal early, as if they have no honor if they don't stay with a signed contract. But on the other side, teams go back on contracts all the time, so I guess their word means nothing. Double standard.


Again: Who cares if it's a double standard? There are double standards all the time, everywhere in life. Everything is not always perfectly fair and balanced, and in this case especially, I'm not pulling my hair out over it. Enough money is involved that it's more than fair even when it's not.

[Lady Steel]

I respect a hard-working nurse, as I have a few in my family (mom and sister). My point has zero to do with dissing on anyone working hard and not making the millions players do. That is not my point at all. My only point is for the league to not apply double standards but they try to. I see fans get all uppity when a player wants a new deal early, as if they have no honor if they don't stay with a signed contract. But on the other side, teams go back on contracts all the time, so I guess their word means nothing. Double standard.


I don't know who you are exactly as you're new here, but you should respect ALL hard working individuals, men and women, no matter their profession as long as it's one that is legal.

Are you a player or agent?

[BnG_Hevn]

I don't agree.

When contracts are signed, it is known as to what is expected to be paid, if it is front loaded, back loaded, spread evenly etc. If you sign a contract that is back loaded, you are opening yourself up to being cut if it benefits the team. If you don't like that contract, don't sign it.

The contract indicates who has the leverage. IF you think you will out perform your contract, then sign for a reasonable deal and outperform it, then YOU will have the leverage. Meaning, instead of signing a 6 year deal that is back loaded, sign a 3 year deal where you can perform well and get paid earlier.

[BnG_Hevn]

I am pretty sure those changes would never get thumbs up from Players' Union. :bounce:

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Yes, I am familiar. Having corporations trying to screw over people to make the corporation more profit is nothing new; if they can get away with it they will. But, by in large, if the producer is really needed and there is no getting around paying him what he is worth, he gets to make major jack. The players used to get on the major short end of the stick. Now they are being compensated more fairly. And let's not forget: It won't be the owners who can't walk without a cane by the time they are 50, like Earl Campbell and many more. I am all for those who sacrifice and create the wealth getting their fair share. It wasn't anything short of sinful as to how they owners refused to give the players any kind of fair pension and health care program after they retired - nothing short of a dirty sin.

I think Campbell has a genetic degenerative disease.

Aside from that, so what? If a player doesn't realize the physical / mental risks of playing in the NFL, chances are pretty good they wouldn't be smart enough to flip burgers to the NFL would be their only option.

[hawaiiansteeler]

AP played one game last season, yet collected his entire yearly paycheck of $12 million.

I'm not sure he should be the spokesman for the players regarding guaranteed contracts...

[TeeTee]

I don't know who you are exactly as you're new here, but you should respect ALL hard working individuals, men and women, no matter their profession as long as it's one that is legal.

Are you a player or agent?

So you turned a well-wishing compliment into a negative?

When did I EVER say ANY hardworking people shouldn't be respected?

Sheeeshhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.

Remind me not to compliment you again!

All you need to know about me is that I am a Steeler fan.

What else matters?

[TeeTee]

AP played one game last season, yet collected his entire yearly paycheck of $12 million.

I'm not sure he should be the spokesman for the players regarding guaranteed contracts...

You may be right but not for the reason you are suggesting. I don't think it's relevant that he got paid his season salary after being suspended. One could make the argument that raising ones kids is their business. That's the way it used to be. Personally, I don't think you need to strike a child to raise them, but that is just my OPINION. Did any of you experience any welts from being spanked growing up? I did. And I can't tell you how many people on facebook post things about "spare the rod, spoil the child" type of posts. A lot of people think spanking a child is necessary. But regardless, none of this makes AP wrong about the non-guaranteed contracts. Tell me, if this was so fair how come no other major sports teams have all non-guaranteed contracts? Basketball and baseball's contracts are indeed guaranteed and those sports are thriving and the owners are making crazy $. You may not like AP, but that doesn't invalidate his position.

[fansince'76]

Maybe Peterson should have pursued basketball or baseball, then...

[Lady Steel]

So you turned a well-wishing compliment into a negative?

When did I EVER say ANY hardworking people shouldn't be respected?

Sheeeshhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.

Remind me not to compliment you again!

All you need to know about me is that I am a Steeler fan.

What else matters?


Ooooo... You're pretty testy for a newb.

You still didn't answer my question. It's a yes or no answer. :coffee: