Re-Grading Pittsburgh Steelers' Past 5 Drafts

[ALLD]

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2439757-re-grading-pittsburgh-steelers-past-5-drafts


Draft grading is its own cottage industry. But it is a far more constructive exercise to undertake when the players have at least one year of NFL experience to their names. Even better still is to go further out than that to see how well a team not only drafted for that year but also for the future. After all, the teams that fare best in the draft, in the long term, generally have the most success.

So let's take a look at—and give grades to—the Pittsburgh Steelers' past five draft classes. We'll see who panned out, who didn't and who remains on their roster to this day.

[teegre]

I stopped reading after this:
2010 got a B-

AB is arguably the best R6 pick in the past decade; he led the NFL in two receiving categories. Pouncey is a perennial Pro Bowler. Sanders left, but he was a good pick. Worilds wasn't the greatest, but he was a serviceable starter. And, Dwyer contributed while he was here.

I heard a GM state that in any draft, your goal is one good starter, one decent starter, and a role player. That is it. If you look at most drafts, that is the average (which shows how hit & miss the draft really is).

SUMMATION:
So, getting two GREAT players (AB, Pouncey), two other starters (Sanders, Worilds), and a role player (Dwyer) is better than a measly B-.

Really... what more do people expect out of a draft??? :noidea:

[Mojouw]

I stopped reading after this:
2010 got a B-

AB is arguably the best R6 pick in the past decade; he led the NFL in two receiving categories. Pouncey is a perennial Pro Bowler. Sanders left, but he was a good pick. Worilds wasn't the greatest, but he was a serviceable starter. And, Dwyer contributed while he was here.

I heard a GM state that in any draft, your goal is one good starter, one decent starter, and a role player. That is it. If you look at most drafts, that is the average (which shows how hit & miss the draft really is).

SUMMATION:
So, getting two GREAT players (AB, Pouncey), two other starters (Sanders, Worilds), and a role player (Dwyer) is better than a measly B-.

Really... what more do people expect out of a draft??? :noidea:

Obviously you are not familiar with the standards for a Steelers draft. Each and every player picked must make multiple Pro Bowls, start in their first season, and be universally regarded as a "steal" at their draft slot -- no overdrafting here! Oh, they must also only ever play for the Steelers.

[tube517]

Clorox Report

[Dwinsgames]

its not always who you get .... sometimes it has more to do with who you left on the board

[steelreserve]

I stopped reading after this:
2010 got a B-

AB is arguably the best R6 pick in the past decade; he led the NFL in two receiving categories. Pouncey is a perennial Pro Bowler. Sanders left, but he was a good pick. Worilds wasn't the greatest, but he was a serviceable starter. And, Dwyer contributed while he was here.

I heard a GM state that in any draft, your goal is one good starter, one decent starter, and a role player. That is it. If you look at most drafts, that is the average (which shows how hit & miss the draft really is).

SUMMATION:
So, getting two GREAT players (AB, Pouncey), two other starters (Sanders, Worilds), and a role player (Dwyer) is better than a measly B-.

Really... what more do people expect out of a draft??? :noidea:


I don't know. I'd still put it in the B or B- range. Pouncey is excellent, but you're supposed to get a good player in the first round, especially if you spend the pick on an offensive lineman. So I don't look at that as "knocking it out of the park," just a little better than expected. Brown was the steal of the draft, but who else did we really get out of it?

Dwyer and Worilds weren't really contributors; they were guys starting because we didn't have a real impact player at their positions, and most of the time they were just barely struggling along. That's not being a decent starter or role player, that's us being forced to rely on sub-par guys because we didn't have anybody better. I doubt either of them would've started a single game for us in their careers if they'd been on one of our better teams from a few years prior. Might not have even made the roster. And as a bonus, both of them eventually turned out to be head cases. Sanders was OK, but never thrived and was not on the field a whole lot. So we got a third receiver who was available half the time, which I guess is OK, but not a huge payoff for your third-round pick either. That plus two scrubs was all we got out of the rest of the picks.

Look, unless you're very unlucky, you're probably going to get a couple of pretty good players in any draft. But if you don't also get a couple of role players (who actually play their role well), then you're going to be hurting down the road. I actually may like the 2013 draft the best out of this bunch, because we got our one superstar (Bell) for a damn good value, but there's also the possibility that three or four other guys (Wheaton, Williams, Thomas, and yes, maybe Jones) turn out to be serviceable players. Of course, the whole thing could go down the crapper if none of them turn the corner, although I'm pretty confident Williams is at least a reliable backup.

[polamalubeast]

If the Steelers have two great players like Pouncey and Brown in the next draft to the position of CB, S or OLB, I'm sure everyone will be happy...In 2010,our needs were the OL and WR

The 2010 draft by the Steelers is one of the best draft in the last 10 years in the NFL, it's just a shame that Sanders had his breakout year with the Broncos

[Born2Steel]

2010...3 top notch players in 0ne draft is better than a B grade for that draft. Not sure I care who was left on the board, or how good the other draftees turned out. Brown, Sanders, and Pouncey! That's an A draft. Only thing more you could want was for one of the 5th rounders to pan out. Just my opinion.

[86WARD]

The only grade I really disagree with is 2010. Like Dwins said, a lot of it (more for me) is who they left on the board. The infamous 2008 draft is the one for me that is the PERFECT example of that...

Going by Similar positioning.

1-Rashard Mendenhall - Ray Rice, Matt Forte, Jamaal Charles, Chris Johnson left on the board.
2-Limas Sweed - Earl Bennett, Mario Manningham, Harry Douglas left on the board.
3-Bruce Davis - Cliff Avril left on the board.

You can go on and on and on (Dennis Dixon instead of Matt Flynn) and really at this point it's all in hindsight, but even to me, at the time some of it was really obvious. Matt Forte and Cliff Avril were my two biggest ones I was pissed about. Never cared for Mendenhall or Davis...I did like the Limas Sweed pick...at the time...lol. He was supposed to take over the world!

[fansince'76]

I did like the Limas Sweed pick...at the time...lol. He was supposed to take over the world!

SWEEEEEEEEEED!

http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/bb136/garyb12001/9amopc.jpg (http://s211.photobucket.com/user/garyb12001/media/9amopc.jpg.html)

:chuckle:

[hawaiiansteeler]

SWEEEEEEEEEED!



http://l.yimg.com/fz/api/res/1.2/8Xb3237RlKjROKOCcasQaA--/YXBwaWQ9c3JjaGRkO2g9Mjk5O3E9OTU7dz01MDA-/http://nbcprofootballtalk.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/sweed1_500.jpg

[Dwinsgames]

with these examples I stayed with players selected after the Steelers in the same round ( only 14 selections to pick from ) I did not venture to next round in any of the selections
( or could have counted way more valid picks ) sure it is all hindsight but that is what a regrade is hindsight

did not count supplemental picks or picks acquired by trade Holmes for the Antonio Brown selection

2010 RD1 we took Pouncey

could have taken Demaryius Thomas , Bryan Bulaga , ( head case but hard to argue production ) Dez Bryant

RD2 Jason Worilds .... could have had Carlos Dunlap , Sean Lee

RD3 Emmanuel Sanders ... could have had Eric Decker , Jimmy Graham

RD4 Thaddeus Gibson .... could have had Geno Atkins , Al Woods

RD5 Chris Scott ..... could have had Riley Cooper

RD6 Jonathan Dwyer ...could have had James Stark

[86WARD]

At the time, I think I'd rather had Pouncey...they needed, really needed that OLine help. I wouldn't have taken Eric Decker over Sanders and as good asmJimmy Graham is, was there a need for TE at that time? But I would take him over Sanders every day. I really liked the Dwyer pick at that time too...

[Mojouw]

IF they hadn' taken Pouncey, this would have been your starting center:

http://icon-park.com/imagefiles/traffic_cone_light_orange.png

[polamalubeast]

with these examples I stayed with players selected after the Steelers in the same round ( only 14 selections to pick from ) I did not venture to next round in any of the selections
( or could have counted way more valid picks ) sure it is all hindsight but that is what a regrade is hindsight

did not count supplemental picks or picks acquired by trade Holmes for the Antonio Brown selection

2010 RD1 we took Pouncey

could have taken Demaryius Thomas , Bryan Bulaga , ( head case but hard to argue production ) Dez Bryant

RD2 Jason Worilds .... could have had Carlos Dunlap , Sean Lee

RD3 Emmanuel Sanders ... could have had Eric Decker , Jimmy Graham

RD4 Thaddeus Gibson .... could have had Geno Atkins , Al Woods

RD5 Chris Scott ..... could have had Riley Cooper

RD6 Jonathan Dwyer ...could have had James Stark


For the Round 1, the o-line was a big need for the steelers and for the WR......the steelers are very good for Drafted a WR between 3rd to 6th round under Tomlin(Wallace,Brown,Sanders,Bryant,Wheaton), so it was not a good idea to draft a WR in the first round...And Pouncey is much better than Bryan Bulaga.


For Sanders....He is better than Decker(Not even close,jusk ask to Broncos fan)and the steelers did not need of a TE in 2010

Of course, every year, we would like our draft be good as in 1974, but it is impossible...If every year the steelers drafted good players like Sanders, Brown and Pouncey to the need positions,the steelers would have 12-14 win every year

This draft deserve an A

[steelreserve]

Wow, seems people are really high on the Sanders pick in hindsight. If you're basing that on his production last season with Denver, remember: That was in the Peyton Manning Denver offense. He was half as productive here.

[polamalubeast]

Wow, seems people are really high on the Sanders pick in hindsight. If you're basing that on his production last season with Denver, remember: That was in the Peyton Manning Denver offense. He was half as productive here.

His production may be inflated last year, but he is still a very good player

[Born2Steel]

Sanders was productive enough that the FO kept him from going to the Pats. Stats can mean whatever, value is in the checkbook.

[fansince'76]

At the time, I think I'd rather had Pouncey...they needed, really needed that OLine help.

Agreed. Hartwig sucked, and almost singlehandedly cost us a Super Bowl to boot. Pouncey was a HUGE upgrade at the position from day one, even if he is a knucklehead off the field at times.

And I admit, center isn't the most "sexy" position to burn a first round pick on, but if the pick affords you the luxury of not having to worry about the position for 12-15 years afterward, it's kinda worth it, IMO.

[86WARD]

Wow, seems people are really high on the Sanders pick in hindsight. If you're basing that on his production last season with Denver, remember: That was in the Peyton Manning Denver offense. He was half as productive here.

His inflated value >> Deckers inflated value. Sanders in Pittsburgh >> Decker with the Jets?

[tube517]

Sanders was the #3 WR when we lost to the FudgePackers in the SuperBowl. When he got injured, that hurt. They put in ARE in the slot and AB wasn't used. After that, Sanders was outshined by AB and being hurt in 2011 did not help his cause. Sanders is a good receiver but he is not a playmaker like AB.

[Dwinsgames]

His inflated value >> Deckers inflated value. Sanders in Pittsburgh >> Decker with the Jets?


perhaps so , however if you are going to attribute the " Manning Factor" you also have to attribute the " Ben Factor " and I would go on record and say Ben is a LOT closer to Manning in ability than anything the Jets have trotted out at QB since Decker arrived in NY than the distance of any of those are to Ben ... and it is not even close

[teegre]

If the Steelers have two great players like Pouncey and Brown in the next draft to the position of CB, S or OLB, I'm sure everyone will be happy...In 2010,our needs were the OL and WR

The 2010 draft by the Steelers is one of the best draft in the last 10 years in the NFL, it's just a shame that Sanders had his breakout year with the Broncos

This


2010...3 top notch players in 0ne draft is better than a B grade for that draft. Not sure I care who was left on the board, or how good the other draftees turned out. Brown, Sanders, and Pouncey! That's an A draft. Only thing more you could want was for one of the 5th rounders to pan out. Just my opinion.

And, this.

- - - Updated - - -


For the Round 1, the o-line was a big need for the steelers and for the WR......the steelers are very good for Drafted a WR between 3rd to 6th round under Tomlin(Wallace,Brown,Sanders,Bryant,Wheaton), so it was not a good idea to draft a WR in the first round...And Pouncey is much better than Bryan Bulaga.


For Sanders....He is better than Decker(Not even close,jusk ask to Broncos fan)and the steelers did not need of a TE in 2010

Of course, every year, we would like our draft be good as in 1974, but it is impossible...If every year the steelers drafted good players like Sanders, Brown and Pouncey to the need positions,the steelers would have 12-14 win every year

This draft deserve an A

And, a whole lot of this.

[steelreserve]

perhaps so , however if you are going to attribute the " Manning Factor" you also have to attribute the " Ben Factor " and I would go on record and say Ben is a LOT closer to Manning in ability than anything the Jets have trotted out at QB since Decker arrived in NY than the distance of any of those are to Ben ... and it is not even close


It's not Manning's ability versus Ben's ability straight-up. They have different habits and styles of play, and Manning's benefit a guy like Sanders tremendously.

Manning favors the #1 and #2 "route running" receivers and tight ends who run intermediate routes. Those guys all do well in his system no matter who they are. Different from, say, the Brady offense that runs the true spread-it-around dink-and-dunk that favors TEs and slot receivers. Or the Ben offense that favors playmakers who can catch a well-timed pass and run away from people, or guys who can come down with the longball. Or the Flacco offense that favors jumpball artists and guys who can draw pass interference.

It's all irrelevant anyway. Sanders was never that successful FOR US. If he goes on to make 15 straight Pro Bowls and break every receiving record in the book, we derive exactly zero benefit from that. Keenan Lewis was another third-round guy who turned into a good player. But his becoming a starter in New Orleans helped us with precisely dick. If you look at what WE got out of it, that turned out to be a terrible draft pick.

You can pat yourself on the back if you want for identifying a good player, I guess. But if he's not playing for you, that doesn't count as a "win." Sanders' time here was nothing to be that excited about, so neither was the pick.

[polamalubeast]

It's not Manning's ability versus Ben's ability straight-up. They have different habits and styles of play, and Manning's benefit a guy like Sanders tremendously.

Manning favors the #1 and #2 "route running" receivers and tight ends who run intermediate routes. Those guys all do well in his system no matter who they are. Different from, say, the Brady offense that runs the true spread-it-around dink-and-dunk that favors TEs and slot receivers. Or the Ben offense that favors playmakers who can catch a well-timed pass and run away from people, or guys who can come down with the longball. Or the Flacco offense that favors jumpball artists and guys who can draw pass interference.

It's all irrelevant anyway. Sanders was never that successful FOR US. If he goes on to make 15 straight Pro Bowls and break every receiving record in the book, we derive exactly zero benefit from that. Keenan Lewis was another third-round guy who turned into a good player. But his becoming a starter in New Orleans helped us with precisely dick. If you look at what WE got out of it, that turned out to be a terrible draft pick.

You can pat yourself on the back if you want for identifying a good player, I guess. But if he's not playing for you, that doesn't count as a "win." Sanders' time here was nothing to be that excited about, so neither was the pick.

Blame the front office or the situation in the salary cap for the reasons why the Steelers have not kept Sanders and especially Lewis.

The only player that the Steelers would have been a better choice than Sanders in round 3, it was Graham, but the Steelers did not need a TE at this time.

And forget Sanders,even with just Brown and Pouncey, it's an incredible draft, since the Steelers took two players they are among the best of their position

The Other players that the Steelers have taken in this draft was not bad too...There has no Dri Archer, Jarvis Jones or Limas Sweed in this draft for the steelers

[teegre]

I don't know. I'd still put it in the B or B- range. Pouncey is excellent, but you're supposed to get a good player in the first round, especially if you spend the pick on an offensive lineman. So I don't look at that as "knocking it out of the park," just a little better than expected. Brown was the steal of the draft, but who else did we really get out of it?

Dwyer and Worilds weren't really contributors; they were guys starting because we didn't have a real impact player at their positions, and most of the time they were just barely struggling along. That's not being a decent starter or role player, that's us being forced to rely on sub-par guys because we didn't have anybody better. I doubt either of them would've started a single game for us in their careers if they'd been on one of our better teams from a few years prior. Might not have even made the roster. And as a bonus, both of them eventually turned out to be head cases. Sanders was OK, but never thrived and was not on the field a whole lot. So we got a third receiver who was available half the time, which I guess is OK, but not a huge payoff for your third-round pick either. That plus two scrubs was all we got out of the rest of the picks.

Look, unless you're very unlucky, you're probably going to get a couple of pretty good players in any draft. But if you don't also get a couple of role players (who actually play their role well), then you're going to be hurting down the road. I actually may like the 2013 draft the best out of this bunch, because we got our one superstar (Bell) for a damn good value, but there's also the possibility that three or four other guys (Wheaton, Williams, Thomas, and yes, maybe Jones) turn out to be serviceable players. Of course, the whole thing could go down the crapper if none of them turn the corner, although I'm pretty confident Williams is at least a reliable backup.

There are 44 All Pro players.
The Steelers had 4 of them.
Pouncey & AB being 2 of those 4.

I heard a stat (on ESPN???) that the averages for R1 picks are as follows:
30% are busts
30% become decent players
30% become good starters
6% become Pro Bowl level players
3% become All Pro level players
1% become Hall of Famers

For Pouncey to be in the top 4%, makes him a great pick.

I heard a GM talking about "draft success", and he stated that a "successful" draft netted: one good starter, one decent starter, and a role-player. That's it. Teams like the Chargers have gone six entire seasons without drafting a Pro Bowl caliber starter. So, for the Steelers to get two All Pros in the same draft is huge.

[steelreserve]

Blame the front office or the situation in the salary cap for the reasons why the Steelers have not kept Sanders and especially Lewis.

The only player that the Steelers would have been a better choice than Sanders in round 3, it was Graham, but the Steelers did not need a TE at this time.

And forget Sanders,even with just Brown and Pouncey, it's an incredible draft, since the Steelers took two players they are among the best of their position

The Other players that the Steelers have taken in this draft was not bad too...There has no Dri Archer, Jarvis Jones or Limas Sweed in this draft for the steelers


I do blame the front office and salary cap for that. But I don't rate our draft picks on how much they help the Broncos. The fact is, we don't have Sanders in the years when he is producing, we have a zero instead. His production while he was here was maybe a couple hundred yards more than what you could expect from a replacement-level third receiver. So I don't think that draft pick helped us very much.

As for the 2010 draft overall - I said before, you're supposed to get at least one star player in every draft. If you don't, you really fucked up, even if you're the Browns. We were fortunate enough to get two that year, but then it went off a cliff and we basically wound up with two players total out of 10 picks. Look at our 2002 draft. Now THAT was a draft class that really set us up for success. No really big names there, but SIX building-block guys who contributed. We've really struggled lately to find those mid-level or mid-high contributors in the middle and late rounds of the draft, which is why we have serious depth problems now. "We don't have starters-in-waiting, we have guys who absolutely suck ass," that should be our motto for the backups these days. It's not all about the home run.



The Other players that the Steelers have taken in this draft was not bad too...There has no Dri Archer, Jarvis Jones or Limas Sweed in this draft for the steelers

There was Jason Worilds.

[polamalubeast]

As for the 2010 draft overall - I said before, you're supposed to get at least one star player in every draft. If you don't, you really fucked up, even if you're the Browns

not true....especially when you do not draft in the top 15-20


There was Jason Worilds


Not great,but not bad as Archer or Sweed

[Born2Steel]

I look at draft success like this....if in this draft, we get 1 OLB and 1 CB that become quality starters for us, then this is an A draft for us. Out of our 8 picks, I just want 2 good players to fill those roles. I don't care if we miss out on the next Jerome Bettis because, this draft, we don't NEED a RB. If we end up with 3 quality starters from this draft, like in 2010, this will be a very good draft. Very good.

[ALLD]

Somebody must have had too many IC Lights when they drafted Archer.

[Mojouw]

Unless they were "star" players guys from the 2010 draft class would be too expensive (on 2nd contracts) to keep as "depth" anyways. So that point kinda goes away.

There is no way that the 2002 draft is anyhow related to success. Kiesel and Foote are clearly the best players from that class. They are not guys who put a team over the hump and win a championship.

If anything, it was the 03 and o4 drafts that put this team in a position to win SBs. A franchise QB and an elite HOF level talent to build your defense around. You can have all the 2002 type classes you want. I will take top-heavy drafts like 2003 and 2004.

Also the draft is solely about identifying and selecting talent. So Keenan Lewis and Emmanuel Sanders certainly do count. Multiple other NFL teams had a chance to take those two players, and they took other prospects instead. Some turned out ok -- others did not.

As to Jason Worilds -- not my favorite guy at all BUT he posted 25.5 sacks in 5 seasons. Guys drafted +/- a year or so from Worilds outside of the first round as pass rushing OLB:

Akeem Ayers - 13 sacks
Justin Houston - 48.5 sacks
Courtney Upshaw - 3 sacks
Sergio Kindle - 0 sacks
Victor Butler - 11 sacks
Cliff Avril - 52.5 sacks
Phillip Wheeler - 5.5 sacks
Justin Durant - 3.5 sacks
J. Sheard - 23.0 sacks
Sam Acho - 13 sacks
P. McPhee - 17 sacks
L. Houston - 17.5 sacks
O. Schofield - 13.5 sacks
C. Barwin - 38.5 sacks
P. Kruger - 31.5 sacks
Q. Grove - 9.5 sacks

The point is (and I'm sure no one but me cares) we need to be realistic when generating player comparisons and standards for performance. Other than 4 of the players listed, Worilds was better at his primary task - rushing the passer. Now did WOrilds need to be taken in the 2nd round of that draft? That is a question that can never be answered. But he did ultimately perform about as well as a 2nd round pass rusher can be expected to.

The days of pulling league leading sack guys out of the 2nd and 3rd day of the draft are simply over. And yes, you can start listing the exceptions to that. I'm talking general trends. CBs, QBs, LTs, and edge rushers are the new overdrafted positions in the NFL. Used to be WR and TE, and that has fallen off a bit.

[hawaiiansteeler]

This draft deserve an A

:iagree:

[86WARD]

perhaps so , however if you are going to attribute the " Manning Factor" you also have to attribute the " Ben Factor " and I would go on record and say Ben is a LOT closer to Manning in ability than anything the Jets have trotted out at QB since Decker arrived in NY than the distance of any of those are to Ben ... and it is not even close

That's why I put the ? there. But even Sanders as a 3 was better than Decker as a one IMO.

[steelreserve]

Somebody must have had too many IC Lights when they drafted Archer.

More like Mad Dog 20/20 if you ask me.



Unless they were "star" players guys from the 2010 draft class would be too expensive (on 2nd contracts) to keep as "depth" anyways. So that point kinda goes away.

There is no way that the 2002 draft is anyhow related to success. Kiesel and Foote are clearly the best players from that class. They are not guys who put a team over the hump and win a championship.

If anything, it was the 03 and o4 drafts that put this team in a position to win SBs. A franchise QB and an elite HOF level talent to build your defense around. You can have all the 2002 type classes you want. I will take top-heavy drafts like 2003 and 2004.

Also the draft is solely about identifying and selecting talent. So Keenan Lewis and Emmanuel Sanders certainly do count. Multiple other NFL teams had a chance to take those two players, and they took other prospects instead. Some turned out ok -- others did not.


If we didn't have the 2002 class, I don't think we'd be in a position to trade half a draft to move up for Polamalu. And who knows whether Ben would've been the "missing piece" if we'd had holes all throughout the rest of the offense and defense. I said it "set us up" to be successful for a reason, not "it was what made us into champions." Getting four solid starters (Hope and Simmons were on that same mid-high level as Foote and maybe a bit below Kiesel) plus a couple of legitimate role players is huge.

Having a good football team is not about having all star players. You can't. It's just as much about not having weak links. Our problem in recent years has never been lacking a core of star players. It's been that after five or six key players, we've missed on so many picks that we end up relying on guys like Jonathan Scott, Ryan Mundy, or the Redman/Dwyer combo ... we keep banging our heads against the wall with guys like Ziggy Hood or Jason Worilds after it should've been obvious they were not suitable for everyday use ... a team that's half stars and half Achilles' Heels is going to be dragged down more to the level of the latter. You need those mid-range and depth guys, and we've been way short on that. Which is why I don't think a draft with two superstars and then eight whiffs can be anything other than a B or B-. I know I'm in the minority for thinking that way, but not terribly concerned about that either.

[polamalubeast]

More like Mad Dog 20/20 if you ask me.





If we didn't have the 2002 class, I don't think we'd be in a position to trade half a draft to move up for Polamalu. And who knows whether Ben would've been the "missing piece" if we'd had holes all throughout the rest of the offense and defense. I said it "set us up" to be successful for a reason, not "it was what made us into champions." Getting four solid starters (Hope and Simmons were on that same mid-high level as Foote and maybe a bit below Kiesel) plus a couple of legitimate role players is huge.

Having a good football team is not about having all star players. You can't. It's just as much about not having weak links. Our problem in recent years has never been lacking a core of star players. It's been that after five or six key players, we've missed on so many picks that we end up relying on guys like Jonathan Scott, Ryan Mundy, or the Redman/Dwyer combo ... we keep banging our heads against the wall with guys like Ziggy Hood or Jason Worilds after it should've been obvious they were not suitable for everyday use ... a team that's half stars and half Achilles' Heels is going to be dragged down more to the level of the latter. You need those mid-range and depth guys, and we've been way short on that. Which is why I don't think a draft with two superstars and then eight whiffs can be anything other than a B or B-. I know I'm in the minority for thinking that way, but not terribly concerned about that either.

The 2010 draft is not the problem

[hawaiiansteeler]

The 2010 draft is not the problem

the 2008 draft certainly was...

[teegre]

with these examples I stayed with players selected after the Steelers in the same round ( only 14 selections to pick from ) I did not venture to next round in any of the selections
( or could have counted way more valid picks ) sure it is all hindsight but that is what a regrade is hindsight

did not count supplemental picks or picks acquired by trade Holmes for the Antonio Brown selection

2010 RD1 we took Pouncey

could have taken Demaryius Thomas , Bryan Bulaga , ( head case but hard to argue production ) Dez Bryant

RD2 Jason Worilds .... could have had Carlos Dunlap , Sean Lee

RD3 Emmanuel Sanders ... could have had Eric Decker , Jimmy Graham

RD4 Thaddeus Gibson .... could have had Geno Atkins , Al Woods

RD5 Chris Scott ..... could have had Riley Cooper

RD6 Jonathan Dwyer ...could have had James Stark
I love Pouncey. On another board, I've debated "Pouncey vs. Bulaga" with a guy for years. He & I have made no ground; so, simply, maybe we should agree to disagree on that pick.


Rating a draft based on missed picks would make sense, if some team were drafted ALL of those players. But, no one did. The Saints got Jimmy Graham, but not Dez Bryant & Sean Lee. The Cowboys got Dez Bryant & Sean Lee, but not Brian Bulaga & James Stark. The Packers got Brian Bulaga & James Stark, but not Pouncey & AB. Et cetera...


If teams were routinely drafting Pro Bowler after Pro Bowler, in all seven rounds, then I'd agree: basing a draft grade on opportunities missed would make sense. But, the truth is that no one is routinely nailing drafts like that. Every few years, someone does indeed have a rainmaker draft, but that's the outlier (not the norm).


Compared to the 1974 draft, the 2010 draft would get a C-. But, graded on a curve/compared to recents drafts by other teams, the 2010 draft is a helluva draft.


SIDENOTE: A buddy & I once redrafted each draft, taking any R2 player in R1... and, any R3 player in R2... and, so on. It's amazing what one can do with hindsight.

[Jaucer]

More like Mad Dog 20/20 if you ask me.





If we didn't have the 2002 class, I don't think we'd be in a position to trade half a draft to move up for Polamalu. And who knows whether Ben would've been the "missing piece" if we'd had holes all throughout the rest of the offense and defense. I said it "set us up" to be successful for a reason, not "it was what made us into champions." Getting four solid starters (Hope and Simmons were on that same mid-high level as Foote and maybe a bit below Kiesel) plus a couple of legitimate role players is huge.

Having a good football team is not about having all star players. You can't. It's just as much about not having weak links. Our problem in recent years has never been lacking a core of star players. It's been that after five or six key players, we've missed on so many picks that we end up relying on guys like Jonathan Scott, Ryan Mundy, or the Redman/Dwyer combo ... we keep banging our heads against the wall with guys like Ziggy Hood or Jason Worilds after it should've been obvious they were not suitable for everyday use ... a team that's half stars and half Achilles' Heels is going to be dragged down more to the level of the latter. You need those mid-range and depth guys, and we've been way short on that. Which is why I don't think a draft with two superstars and then eight whiffs can be anything other than a B or B-. I know I'm in the minority for thinking that way, but not terribly concerned about that either.

I for one pretty much agree. I'll put it this way. I come from a small rural school area in mid-west Ohio. The high school team is a perennial powerhouse and has won 4 straight state championships and 6 since 2002 with several other runner-ups. Most would think they had some great talent but out of all of that I think they've had 1 maybe 2 D1 recruits. The reason they are so successful is that they don't rely on any one player to be a star. They don't have any big name players but what they have is a bunch of hard working above average talent. I've told many around that 8 out of the 11 players on each side of the ball will be better than the players against them but by not much in most cases. Usually 1 player on each side of the ball and sometimes that is the same player is going to be much better than his opponents equal. Add all that slightly better talent and it equals a much better team. We don't need a bunch of stars. We need a bunch of better than average players that have the desire to work together.

Instead of trying to find the next all star I'd prefer the Steelers to get back to drafting a bunch of hard working blue collar FOOTBALL players. As Dwins has said many a time, it's all about what they show on tape. Draft football players first and athletes second. Stock pile a bunch of better than average players even if not a position of need and the team will end up much better in the long run. As a businessman I am always looking to upgrade talent even if it isn't in an area of pressing need.

[Mojouw]

The Decline in the defense was related to the fall off in star players. Worilds is the Larry foote of olbs.

What hurt was that Aaron Smith retired. Hampton declined. Woodley got hurt. Farrior retired. Taylor got old. Polamalu got old. Those are star players. Players capable of changing the course of a game. Not saying they have to all be 1st round picks, but star players win games.

[polamalubeast]

The depth is important, but it is the stars that allows a team to be a Super Bowl contender


The problem of the steelers in defense is that the Steelers have no stars in this defense....If you add 2 stars in defense in the next draft as it was the case in 2010 in offense, it will make a big difference

[86WARD]

Agreed. Hartwig sucked, and almost singlehandedly cost us a Super Bowl to boot. Pouncey was a HUGE upgrade at the position from day one, even if he is a knucklehead off the field at times.

And I admit, center isn't the most "sexy" position to burn a first round pick on, but if the pick affords you the luxury of not having to worry about the position for 12-15 years afterward, it's kinda worth it, IMO.

Hartwig makes me cringe...but not quite as much as the name Mahan...ugh...

[teegre]

Hartwig makes me cringe...but not quite as much as the name Mahan...ugh...

Hartwig = Ewoks

Mahan = Jar Jar Binks

[tube517]

Hartwig = Ewoks

Mahan = Jar Jar Binks :chuckle:

Hartwig = Alonzo Jackson

Mahan = Huey Richardson

[steelreserve]

The 2010 draft is not the problem


Never said it was. But it wasn't quite the smash success some are making it out to be either. All I said was a B or B- was about right. We did well on a couple of picks, but that's all.

An "A" draft to me is when you get three or four important players. No, that doesn't happen very often. You don't draft on a curve, and no one is going to pity-pass you.

[hawaiiansteeler]

More like Mad Dog 20/20 if you ask me.



ooh, that brings back some memories of my youth.

they're all a little blurry though for some reason...:sick:

[teegre]

:chuckle:

Hartwig = Alonzo Jackson

Mahan = Huey Richardson

Hartwig = constipation

Mahan = having explosive diarrhea while surrounded by bikini models

[86WARD]

Hartwig = HIV

Mahan = AIDS

[zulater]

Sanders was a good 3rd round pick and he was a very valuable player for this team. Yeah I understand he had a breakout year in Denver, but the insinuation if not outright assertion that he was an unproductive player as a Steeler is ludicrous. You could see early last season that Ben was really missing him. And it's not just how many catches you make, but it's also your presence on the field. Drawing coverage keeping defenses honest. You can give me that sort of value out of a 3rd round pick any year you want.

[teegre]

Hartwig = HIV

Mahan = AIDS

:rofl2::nod: :rofl2:

[zulater]

Hartwig = HIV

Mahan = AIDS

Legurskey= full blown aids with herpes simplex 3

[steelreserve]

Cody Wallace: Bruised testicle

Not an analogy about his skill level; that's just what he'll do to you in real life.

[tube517]

Legurskey= full blown aids with herpes simplex 3


Jonathan Scott = The Clap

[teegre]

This thread is gold!!!

[zulater]

Cody Wallace: Bruised testicle

Not an analogy about his skill level; that's just what he'll do to you in real life.


:sofunny:

[86WARD]

Cody Wallace: Bruised testicle

Not an analogy about his skill level; that's just what he'll do to you in real life.

Lol.

[86WARD]

Legurskey= full blown aids with herpes simplex 3

I don't know...Legursky played pretty well in the biggest stage on short notice...maybe he's more like chlamydia or gonerrheoa?