TPOP: Steelers draft board

[teegre]

Hi all.

I was a long-time contributor over at Steelers Fever. Then, kaploowey!!! I used to write articles for Steelers Fever (in the pre-kaploowey days), and I currently write for a website called The Point of Pittsburgh. Here is my most recent article about the Steelers.

The Big Board
by Tiger Rowan

In any given draft, I take the spot at which the Steelers are drafting, and make a list of that same number of “possible” players that could be drafted, up to and including when the Steelers pick. This year, the Steelers draft 22nd, so I have created a list of twenty-two prospects. Furthermore, for those twenty-two candidates, I have divided them out into different categories...

Read more here:
http://www.thepointofpittsburgh.com/the-big-board/

I hope that you enjoy the article.

[fansince'76]

Welcome to the board! We have a couple of other folks here who write for other sites on the side too. :thumbsup:

[teegre]

Welcome to the board! We have a couple of other folks here who write for other sites on the side too. :thumbsup:

Awesome.

If if I may ask, who else is a writer?... and, for which site(s) do they write?

[Steeltreal]

I'm torn on the Safety position, a 1st Round pick would make the training camp competition interesting. But then if they grab one in the 3rd or 4th he could be a diamond and the rough and steal some playing time from this lackluster group. Mitchell, Allen, Golden, Thomas, not scaring any offensive coordinators with those names.

[Lady Steel]

I read all the articles you and Connor write, Tiger, as well as a lot of the articles written about the Pirates. You both are doing a great job for TPOP. Keep up the good work!

Where is Connor? He needs to come out and play.

[Born2Steel]

Another fun, well written article, sir.

[teegre]

I'm torn on the Safety position, a 1st Round pick would make the training camp competition interesting. But then if they grab one in the 3rd or 4th he could be a diamond and the rough and steal some playing time from this lackluster group. Mitchell, Allen, Golden, Thomas, not scaring any offensive coordinators with those names.

Thats the dilemma.

Landon Collins would be an upgrade over Will Allen... but, who knows if the Steelers "need" to draft a safety at all, because they have Shamarko Thomas.

If Shamarko is the man, then there'd be no need to use a R1 pick on a safety. But, who truly knows about Shamarko. And, why don't we know: he's always injured.

Personally, I'd prefer to go OLB or CB in R1, and snag Shaq Thompson in R2. He is a big safety/small linebacker. Think: Kam Chancellor.

[LLT]

Good article!! I love Carter. if I had to pick my favorite CB's in this draft it would be Johnson Rowe, and Carter.

[teegre]

I read all the articles you and Connor write, Tiger, as well as a lot of the articles written about the Pirates. You both are doing a great job for TPOP. Keep up the good work!Where is Connor? He needs to come out and play.Thank you very much. Truly. I need to get a Twitter account (like you suggested). I'm not sure where SC is. I text him every once in a while, but he's been absent from any forums. I'll try to get him on here.

[fansince'76]

Awesome.

If if I may ask, who else is a writer?... and, for which site(s) do they write?

Chidi29 (Alex Kozora) wrote for us for a while before beginning to write for Steelers Depot - that one I know for certain.

[LLT]

Thats the dilemma.

Landon Collins would be an upgrade over Will Allen... but, who knows if the Steelers "need" to draft a safety at all, because they have Shamarko Thomas.

If Shamarko is the man, then there'd be no need to use a R1 pick on a safety. But, who truly knows about Shamarko. And, why don't we know: he's always injured.

Personally, I'd prefer to go OLB or CB in R1, and snag Shaq Thompson in R2. He is a big safety/small linebacker. Think: Kam Chancellor.


I still think we go CB in round one, and have been leaning towards OLB's Hunter or Orchard in the 2nd. Then double up with CB's Nelson or Shaw in the 3rd if available. If there is a run on OLB is the 2nd, I would grab CB's Carter or Rowe with our 2nd pick...and would take OLB Davis Tull in the 3rd...I think he could be fantastic in our system.

[Mojouw]

Thats the dilemma.

Landon Collins would be an upgrade over Will Allen... but, who knows if the Steelers "need" to draft a safety at all, because they have Shamarko Thomas.

If Shamarko is the man, then there'd be no need to use a R1 pick on a safety. But, who truly knows about Shamarko. And, why don't we know: he's always injured.

Personally, I'd prefer to go OLB or CB in R1, and snag Shaq Thompson in R2. He is a big safety/small linebacker. Think: Kam Chancellor.

Wouldn't that leave the Steelers with essentially 3 of the same "type" of safety? Thomas and Mitchell (despite what they are listed as) are both better as SS than as FS. Sounds like Thompson and Collins would also be better in that role. My thinking is that the Steelers need to draft and develop a coverage safety more than a hybrid safety/linebacker. I realize that was one of Polamalu's traits, but I don't know if Thompson or Collins is that kind of "Special" and basically isn't that the role that Shazier projects into anyway?

Again, not really arguing about the valuation of the players, just kind of feel that with the Steelers present and projected roster almost all of the safety or safety/Lb hybrid early round prospects are a duplication of resources.

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I still think we go CB in round one, and have been leaning towards OLB's Hunter or Orchard in the 2nd. Then double up with CB's Nelson or Shaw in the 3rd if available. If there is a run on OLB is the 2nd, I would grab CB's Carter or Rowe with our 2nd pick...and would take OLB Davis Tull in the 3rd...I think he could be fantastic in our system.

Much rather have Shaw or Rowe and try them as a 3rd corner or even as a safety than draft a more "in the box" style DB. We have enough of those. We need some one in the middle of the field who can turn and run with big WRs and TEs.

[teegre]

Another fun, well written article, sir.

Thank you very much. (Good to see an old, friendly face.)

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Chidi29 (Alex Kozora) wrote for us for a while before beginning to write for Steelers Depot - that one I know for certain.

I used to write for About.com (2004-2010)... until that site went belly up.

Then, it was on to SF... until that site went belly up.


So, if my track record maintains its course, either TPOP or this place is eventually going to go belly up. LOL

[teegre]

I still think we go CB in round one, and have been leaning towards OLB's Hunter or Orchard in the 2nd. Then double up with CB's Nelson or Shaw in the 3rd if available. If there is a run on OLB is the 2nd, I would grab CB's Carter or Rowe with our 2nd pick...and would take OLB Davis Tull in the 3rd...I think he could be fantastic in our system.

I could see them going either CB or OLB in R1, followed by the opposite position in R2. (CB then OLB, or OLB then CB)

i dont thnk think that Carter makes it to 56. I think that he slips into the end of R1. Till would be an interesting pick in R3. I am more of a Markus Golden fan, but same difference.

I, too, think that they should double-dip at CB, as well as at OLB. Something like:

R1: CB/OLB
R2: OLB/CB
R5: OLB: Lyndon Trail, Norfolk
R6: CB: Ladarius Gunter, Miami... Quandre Diggs, Texas... Wayne Lyons, Stanford... Steve Nelson, Oregon St.... Lorenzo Doss, Tulane... Bobby McCain, Memphis

[teegre]

Wouldn't that leave the Steelers with essentially 3 of the same "type" of safety? Thomas and Mitchell (despite what they are listed as) are both better as SS than as FS. Sounds like Thompson and Collins would also be better in that role. My thinking is that the Steelers need to draft and develop a coverage safety more than a hybrid safety/linebacker. I realize that was one of Polamalu's traits, but I don't know if Thompson or Collins is that kind of "Special" and basically isn't that the role that Shazier projects into anyway?

Again, not really arguing about the valuation of the players, just kind of feel that with the Steelers present and projected roster almost all of the safety or safety/Lb hybrid early round prospects are a duplication of resources.


Good point.

Let et me put it this way: the Steelers took Shazier, despite already having Williams & Spence. Likewise, even though they already have Thomas & Mitchell, who are both like Thomspon, I could see them "upgrading" the position.

Also, i read somewhere that they might be moving away from the traditional S and FS roles, and using the safeties more interchangeably. On one play, Mitchell might be the SS, and on the next play he's the FS. Lake has commented on how both Thomas & Mitchell can play both safety roles (Allen can, as well). In which case, another guy like them makes sense.

But, again, I hear your point.

Lastly... true, no one is gonna be Troy. I'm just hoping for the next Lee Flowers.

[Mojouw]

Good point.

Let et me put it this way: the Steelers took Shazier, despite already having Williams & Spence. Likewise, even though they already have Thomas & Mitchell, who are both like Thomspon, I could see them "upgrading" the position.

Also, i read somewhere that they might be moving away from the traditional S and FS roles, and using the safeties more interchangeably. On one play, Mitchell might be the SS, and on the next play he's the FS. Lake has commented on how both Thomas & Mitchell can play both safety roles (Allen can, as well). In which case, another guy like them makes sense.

But, again, I hear your point.

Lastly... true, no one is gonna be Troy. I'm just hoping for the next Lee Flowers.

All very true. I guess rather than the next Lee Flowers, I would want the next Carnell Lake. Again, that may be too much to hope for.

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I could see them going either CB or OLB in R1, followed by the opposite position in R2. (CB then OLB, or OLB then CB)

i dont thnk think that Carter makes it to 56. I think that he slips into the end of R1. Till would be an interesting pick in R3. I am more of a Markus Golden fan, but same difference.

I, too, think that they should double-dip at CB, as well as at OLB. Something like:

R1: CB/OLB
R2: OLB/CB
R5: OLB: Lyndon Trail, Norfolk
R6: CB: Ladarius Gunter, Miami... Quandre Diggs, Texas... Wayne Lyons, Stanford... Steve Nelson, Oregon St.... Lorenzo Doss, Tulane... Bobby McCain, Memphis

I also wouldn't be shocked to see a "double dip" at least at one of either CB or OLB. Tomlin/Colbert has demonstrated a willingness to do that in the past when they are trying to reload quickly. Thinking Timmons/Woodley and Sanders/Brown.

[tube517]

All very true. I guess rather than the next Lee Flowers, I would want the next Carnell Lake. Again, that may be too much to hope for.

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I also wouldn't be shocked to see a "double dip" at least at one of either CB or OLB. Tomlin/Colbert has demonstrated a willingness to do that in the past when they are trying to reload quickly. Thinking Timmons/Woodley and Sanders/Brown.

I think or at least hope they will double dip also. Add in C.Brown/C.Allen (unfortunately) to their draft history. Also, forgot K.Lewis/C.Butler for CB.....DeCastro/Adams/Beachum for the OL. They lucked out on Beachum but Adams hasn't reached his 2nd round potential.

[polamalubeast]

All very true. I guess rather than the next Lee Flowers, I would want the next Carnell Lake. Again, that may be too much to hope for.

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I also wouldn't be shocked to see a "double dip" at least at one of either CB or OLB. Tomlin/Colbert has demonstrated a willingness to do that in the past when they are trying to reload quickly. Thinking Timmons/Woodley and Sanders/Brown.


This is true in the case of Woodley and Timmons but for Sanders and Brown, Brown was a six-round draft pick, so I'm sure the steelers was not thinking that Antonio Brown was to become perhaps the best WR in the NFL

[Mojouw]

This is true in the case of Woodley and Timmons but for Sanders and Brown, Brown was a six-round draft pick, so I'm sure the steelers was not thinking that Antonio Brown was to become perhaps the best WR in the NFL

Obviously not. But it is uncommon for a team to take 2 players at the same position group in the same draft class. Not totally rare or anything, but if you look at the "typical" Steelers draft in the last 10-12 years or so, they usually spread the picks around the roster. But there are times that they kinda pile on a position group or player role.

I hope with the pass rush and the DBs that is the case in this draft. Even if it means putting off TE or DL for another year.
I hope pa

[teegre]

All very true. I guess rather than the next Lee Flowers, I would want the next Carnell Lake. Again, that may be too much to hope for.

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I also wouldn't be shocked to see a "double dip" at least at one of either CB or OLB. Tomlin/Colbert has demonstrated a willingness to do that in the past when they are trying to reload quickly. Thinking Timmons/Woodley and Sanders/Brown.

I'd love to have a SS like Carnell Lake. Troy was on his own level; Lake was an actual human. :chuckle:

Exactly. They needed a WR; so they drafted Sanders & AB. Again, I don't expect the next AB, but I'd love to find the next Ike Taylor.

[Steeldude]

Yes, the Steelers will most likely BPA the CB or OLB position in the first round.

IMO, this draft and many before it have lacked a true, can't miss CB. I would like to see a CB come out that not only has the outstanding physical abilities, but also a high intelligence to pair with it. For example, Ike Taylor was strictly a speed CB. His fundamentals and intelligence for the game were lacking. Imagine how well Taylor would have been if he had Carnell Lake's mind?

I am hoping the Steelers find a CB at 22 that is worth the value. Last year's draft offered no such CB when it came for the Steelers to pick.

When will the next Rod Woodson surface from the NCAA? : )

[teegre]

Yes, the Steelers will most likely BPA the CB or OLB position in the first round.

IMO, this draft and many before it have lacked a true, can't miss CB. I would like to see a CB come out that not only has the outstanding physical abilities, but also a high intelligence to pair with it. For example, Ike Taylor was strictly a speed CB. His fundamentals and intelligence for the game were lacking. Imagine how well Taylor would have been if he had Carnell Lake's mind?

I am hoping the Steelers find a CB at 22 that is worth the value. Last year's draft offered no such CB when it came for the Steelers to pick.

When will the next Rod Woodson surface from the NCAA? : )

I agree: they should go CB then OLB, or OLB then CB.

That said, at 22, the elite pass-rushers may be all gone. And, as you said, there's not an elite CB in this draft; there may not even be a CB worthy of 22. The sweet spot (best value) is around 30-40. A trade back and THEN getting a CB would be ideal.

As as far as Rod Woodson goes: everyone is waiting for that type of player. Patrick Peterson is close, but you had to be in the top 3 to get him. Same goes with any other elite CB that may come along. Revis at 13 was a steal, and no one knew that Richard Sherman was going to be as good as he is. Aside from those three, the CB position as a whole is good, but not "Rod Woodson good." Ergo, if a Rod Woodson-esque player comes along, he won't last past the fifth pick...

...and, I hope that the Steelers never "earn" a top 5 pick.

[Pappy]

Thats the dilemma.

Landon Collins would be an upgrade over Will Allen... but, who knows if the Steelers "need" to draft a safety at all, because they have Shamarko Thomas.

If Shamarko is the man, then there'd be no need to use a R1 pick on a safety. But, who truly knows about Shamarko. And, why don't we know: he's always injured.

Personally, I'd prefer to go OLB or CB in R1, and snag Shaq Thompson in R2. He is a big safety/small linebacker. Think: Kam Chancellor.I agree with you, I love the Thompson kid. I think he is one of the steals of this draft.

[ETL]

Teegre - so weird seeing only "19" posts assigned to you.

Anyway - good analysis. I copied your list here:

14. Landon Collins, safety, Alabama
15. Vic Beasley, outside linebacker, Clemson
16. Shane Ray, outside linebacker, Missouri
17. Alvin Dupree, outside linebacker Kentucky
18. Eli Harold, outside linebacker, Virginia
19. Kevin Johnson, cornerback, Wake Forest
20. Jalen Collins, cornerback, LSU
21. Alex Carter, cornerback, Stanford
22. Malcolm Brown, nose tackle, Texas
23. Owamagbe Odighizuwa, outside linebacker, UCLA
24. Cam Erving, left guard, Florida State

I don't think Beasley will be available. Most mocks have us taking Landon Collins or Kevin Johnson. I would lean towards the CB as well. I like the idea of Shaq Thompson in round 2 but we may need to move up in round 2 to get him. I am hoping one of the other players on your list is available if we stay put - hoping Eli Harold is still there.

[stillers4me]

Welcome to SU, teegre and you, too ETL! :tt03: Sorry your old home disappeared but very happy you've found SU. I'm excited to see so many good and knowledgeable fans finding their way to our little corner of the universe. I look forward to reading your articles.

I was listening in my car on the way home Friday and didn't catch the first round. It was Jim Miller and Pat Kirwin hosting. I caught the second round and they had us trading up with Buffalo to take a CB (a 4th round pick traded). They had us taking a safety in the first round.

I tweeted Jim Miller to get the details and this is what they are projecting for Pittsburgh. Interesting because Ike Taylor had us taking this CB also, although I'm not sure if he was specific about which round. he was impressed with the CB from LSU...he must be catching the eye of someone in Pittsburgh and so many mock drafts are leaning in this direction. It's gonna to be fun to see how it all plays out.

589552577244704768

[teegre]

I agree with you, I love the Thompson kid. I think he is one of the steals of this draft.

When people are discussing the safeties in this draft, his name is often left out. As mentioned earlier in this thread, it'd be nice if he turned out like Lake... who was also an undersized LB who switched to SS.

[teegre]

Teegre - so weird seeing only "19" posts assigned to you.

Anyway - good analysis. I copied your list here:

14. Landon Collins, safety, Alabama
15. Vic Beasley, outside linebacker, Clemson
16. Shane Ray, outside linebacker, Missouri
17. Alvin Dupree, outside linebacker Kentucky
18. Eli Harold, outside linebacker, Virginia
19. Kevin Johnson, cornerback, Wake Forest
20. Jalen Collins, cornerback, LSU
21. Alex Carter, cornerback, Stanford
22. Malcolm Brown, nose tackle, Texas
23. Owamagbe Odighizuwa, outside linebacker, UCLA
24. Cam Erving, left guard, Florida State

I don't think Beasley will be available. Most mocks have us taking Landon Collins or Kevin Johnson. I would lean towards the CB as well. I like the idea of Shaq Thompson in round 2 but we may need to move up in round 2 to get him. I am hoping one of the other players on your list is available if we stay put - hoping Eli Harold is still there.

Yea, it's crazy. Only 19 posts... and no where near the 29,000 thanks. LOL

(It's good to see a familiar face.)

Speaking of trades: I'd love to trade back with Dallas (who might want to move up in front of Arizona, in order to squire a RB); then, take Carter. Good value spot. Then, using that extra pick, trade back up into the early part of R2, and draft Thompson.

[teegre]

Welcome to SU, teegre and you, too ETL! :tt03: Sorry your old home disappeared but very happy you've found SU. I'm excited to see so many good and knowledgeable fans finding their way to our little corner of the universe. I look forward to reading your articles.

I was listening in my car on the way home Friday and didn't catch the first round. It was Jim Miller and Pat Kirwin hosting. I caught the second round and they had us trading up with Buffalo to take a CB (a 4th round pick traded). They had us taking a safety in the first round.

I tweeted Jim Miller to get the details and this is what they are projecting for Pittsburgh. Interesting because Ike Taylor had us taking this CB also, although I'm not sure if he was specific about which round. he was impressed with the CB from LSU...he must be catching the eye of someone in Pittsburgh and so many mock drafts are leaning in this direction. It's gonna to be fun to see how it all plays out.

589552577244704768

Thank you for the warm welcome. SF is gone, but this is an opportunity to make new friends. And, thank you for reading my article; I try to entertain.

CB, S, & OLB... none of those three picks would surprise me in R1. In fact, I'd take those these positions as the first three picks, in any order.
CB, OLB, S
S, CB, OLB
OLB, S, CB
...et cetera...

Jalen Collins is interesting. He is raw. He was originally a safety, and only played 13 games at CB. He is the quintessential "potential" type of guy. He's not the best right now, but a lot of people project him to "possibly" be the best CB in this draft.

[tube517]

When people are discussing the safeties in this draft, his name is often left out. As mentioned earlier in this thread, it'd be nice if he turned out like Lake... who was also an undersized LB who switched to SS.

And also could play corner in a pinch......

[LLT]

I agree: they should go CB then OLB, or OLB then CB.

That said, at 22, the elite pass-rushers may be all gone. And, as you said, there's not an elite CB in this draft; there may not even be a CB worthy of 22. The sweet spot (best value) is around 30-40. A trade back and THEN getting a CB would be ideal.

Waynes will be long gone (though I would love to see him slip to #22) That leaves the three CB's that we have discussed extensively. Peters, Johnson and Collins

Obviously I like Johnson the best out of those three simply because he may be the best man-corner out of the three...but I simply cant exclude the other two, not would I be disappointed in any of the three.

The wild card for me would be if OLB Dupree was available. I may be very tempted to take him and grab Cb's in the 2nd and 3rd.

[hawaiiansteeler]

Speaking of trades: I'd love to trade back with Dallas (who might want to move up in front of Arizona, in order to squire a RB); then, take Carter. Good value spot. Then, using that extra pick, trade back up into the early part of R2, and draft Thompson.

if the Steelers want to draft Alex Carter they can wait until they select at 2(56). he'll still be available then...

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/prospectrankings/2015/CB

[Mojouw]

While Thompson may be a nice player - I think he is a terrible pick for the Steelers in the top 2 rounds. His best position is a Derrick Brooks type role in a 4-3. Don't need that. Or a safety of some sort. But at safety he is likely 2 full seasons away from making an impact. He certainly won't play outside of special teams as a rookie. While I am not disputing that Thompson is potentially a very good NFL player, the time it would take for him to impact is so far out that I don't feel that on a defense that is desperate to improve quickly that he is a wise use of resources.

Now if the board shakes out in a way that it is either take Thompson or an obviously lesser talent -- sure, go ahead and take him. But in the second round, I would have to think really hard between a guy like him and say the corner out of Connecticut, or the DB out of Miami (OH). All three would be NFL "raw" at DB, but Thompson hasn't even played DB since high school.

Likely, all totally irrelevant, as Thompson is discussed by many as long off the board by the Steelers 2nd round pick.

[LLT]

While Thompson may be a nice player - I think he is a terrible pick for the Steelers in the top 2 rounds. His best position is a Derrick Brooks type role in a 4-3. Don't need that. Or a safety of some sort. But at safety he is likely 2 full seasons away from making an impact. He certainly won't play outside of special teams as a rookie. While I am not disputing that Thompson is potentially a very good NFL player, the time it would take for him to impact is so far out that I don't feel that on a defense that is desperate to improve quickly that he is a wise use of resources.

Now if the board shakes out in a way that it is either take Thompson or an obviously lesser talent -- sure, go ahead and take him. But in the second round, I would have to think really hard between a guy like him and say the corner out of Connecticut, or the DB out of Miami (OH). All three would be NFL "raw" at DB, but Thompson hasn't even played DB since high school.

Likely, all totally irrelevant, as Thompson is discussed by many as long off the board by the Steelers 2nd round pick.


I'm with you on Thompson. LOVE him as a player and might consider him as that "extra" LBer that Troy played in certain schemes, except that we have two inside linebackers who can handle that duty now.

I think that we will have to go with an OLB or a CB who isn't a "tweener" in those first two rounds.

[teegre]

Waynes will be long gone (though I would love to see him slip to #22) That leaves the three CB's that we have discussed extensively. Peters, Johnson and Collins

Obviously I like Johnson the best out of those three simply because he may be the best man-corner out of the three...but I simply cant exclude the other two, not would I be disappointed in any of the three.

The wild card for me would be if OLB Dupree was available. I may be very tempted to take him and grab Cb's in the 2nd and 3rd.

It will be interesting to see who all is there at 22. There may be a good OLB still left, in which case, I would inclined to go OLB, and then CB (there are about 10 CB prospects in R2).

As as far as the R1 CBs go:
Peters scares me; Collins is raw; and, the Steelers met with Johnson's family. The Steelers have met with all three; so, any of them is a possibility.

The name I bring up is Alex Carter. Once teams start watching tape of this kid, I think he'll rise up into the end of R1. And... he, too, met with the Steelers.

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if the Steelers want to draft Alex Carter they can wait until they select at 2(56). he'll still be available then...

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/prospectrankings/2015/CB

Very interesting. I completely disagree with Carter's ranking. I truly do not think he'll be there at 56; I actually think that he'll slide into late R1.

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Likely, all totally irrelevant, as Thompson is discussed by many as long off the board by the Steelers 2nd round pick.

Good points, but this is probably the best.

On a lot of boards, he has become the #2 safety in the draft, and thus, he'll almost assuredly be gone by 56.

[one side only]

If Marcus Peters is there at 22, I believe the Steelers take him. He is a plug & play talent. They will select Donovan Smith from Penn State in the second. They are so high on Smith, that they are afraid he won't be there when it is their turn in the second. If they can find a trading partner, the Steelers would jump at the chance to trade down and get two second round selections. They would forego the opportunity to select one of the top corners to get Nate Orchard and Donovan Smith in the second.

[Mojouw]

If Marcus Peters is there at 22, I believe the Steelers take him. He is a plug & play talent. They will select Donovan Smith from Penn State in the second. They are so high on Smith, that they are afraid he won't be there when it is their turn in the second. If they can find a trading partner, the Steelers would jump at the chance to trade down and get two second round selections. They would forego the opportunity to select one of the top corners to get Nate Orchard and Donovan Smith in the second.

Well that would be a disaster of a draft.

[teegre]

If Marcus Peters is there at 22, I believe the Steelers take him. He is a plug & play talent. They will select Donovan Smith from Penn State in the second. They are so high on Smith, that they are afraid he won't be there when it is their turn in the second. If they can find a trading partner, the Steelers would jump at the chance to trade down and get two second round selections. They would forego the opportunity to select one of the top corners to get Nate Orchard and Donovan Smith in the second.

PETERS:
Peters scares me. High reward, but also high risk.

SMITH
I'm interested: where have you heard about this affinity that the Steelers have for Donovan Smith. On my old message board, someone else was saying something similar.

[one side only]

Well that would be a disaster of a draft.

I don't think the Steelers would agree. I believe they see real value in Darryl Roberts, Doran Grant, Steve Nelson and Senquez Golson. Alex Carter as well. They would be very happy with one of those guys in combination with who they believe has the skills to become a complete OLB, and the best left tackle in the draft.

Add in Jeff Heuerman, Matt Jones, Durrell Eskridge, or Jordan Richards, and a wide receiver, and I think the Steelers would be very happy with that draft.

[hawaiiansteeler]

They will select Donovan Smith from Penn State in the second. They are so high on Smith, that they are afraid he won't be there when it is their turn in the second. If they can find a trading partner, the Steelers would jump at the chance to trade down and get two second round selections. They would forego the opportunity to select one of the top corners to get Nate Orchard and Donovan Smith in the second.

how exactly do you know this? do you have an inside source or is this just speculation on your part?

[LLT]

PETERS:
Peters scares me. High reward, but also high risk.

SMITH
I'm interested: where have you heard about this affinity that the Steelers have for Donovan Smith. On my old message board, someone else was saying something similar.

Steelers scouts were at his pro day and were watching him closely according to Rob Rang at CBS sports. I think he is a legitimate possiblity in the 2nd round but ONLY if there is a run on CB's and OLB's. I personally have 13 Cb's and 12 OLB's rated above him so I think that its pretty unlikely.

[one side only]

how exactly do you know this? do you have an inside source or is this just speculation on your part?

There has been a lot of "noise" linking Smith to the Steelers. So much so that one mock draft, Pro Football Talk, has Smith as the Steelers' first round pick. I think that is an overreaction, but it does show that national reporters place credence in this "noise." Factor in the roster and depth chart, which reveals a need for a versatile offensive lineman to fill in due to the inevitable injury, and the contract status of Ramon Foster, and the selection of an offensive lineman is a high priority.

The draft stock of Donovan Smith continues to rise. There are mock drafts that show Smith going in the second round to teams other than the Steelers. Smith is attending the draft.

Mike Munchak reportedly really liked what he saw during his visit to Penn State. I think Munchak wants at least one guy in this draft, and if it isn't Smith, I think it is Sean Hickey, who has been working out with Tunch Ilkin. Donovan Smith has the size and skill to play left tackle, even though he is still a work in progress. Smith hasn't visited the Steelers, but maybe the Steelers don't need to see him again, and they want to avoid the appearance of interest in the guy.

Put all these things together and that tells me the Steelers have him targeted. I could be wrong, but I don't get paid to prognosticate like all the talking heads that will also be wrong.

[Mojouw]

I don't think the Steelers would agree. I believe they see real value in Darryl Roberts, Doran Grant, Steve Nelson and Senquez Golson. Alex Carter as well. They would be very happy with one of those guys in combination with who they believe has the skills to become a complete OLB, and the best left tackle in the draft.

Add in Jeff Heuerman, Matt Jones, Durrell Eskridge, or Jordan Richards, and a wide receiver, and I think the Steelers would be very happy with that draft.

I actually have no problem waiting on a CB. Particularly since, unless Butler goes a totally different route, the Steelers will not be playing a ton of man coverages - so they would be "wasting" a large portion of the top 3-5 CB prospects skill sets anyways. Based on everything I have read, I just think Orchard is a mistake in the first round. I think Orchard sounds like a guy who will have a solid NFL career, but not spectacular. We already have that at OLB in a first round pick in Jarvis Jones. They need an OLB that can jump start the pass rush with having one or two "elite" skills (lightening first step, crazy strong a la Harrison, whatever it is) and I don't think Orchard is that guy.

You take Orchard in the first - already dipping into a second tier of talent
Smith in the second - maybe he is one of the most talented OL prospects in the class - but you are delaying DB and more reinforcements in the front 7 on D
CB in the third - now you are deeper into the 3rd tier of DB talent.

Can play this out through all the rounds, but I think you all see the idea. The first round is where you are intended to draft guys that go to Pro Bowls and make All Pro teams for the next 10 years. Not guys from the 2nd or 3rd tier of talent at a position group because you are reaching based on need.

I know this sounds crazy, but I would rather have the 3rd best WR in the class then the 7th best CB or the 9th best edge rusher. The only thing I am against in the first round is DT, unless someone can convince me that DT would play more than 45% of the snaps.

[hawaiiansteeler]

There has been a lot of "noise" linking Smith to the Steelers. So much so that one mock draft, Pro Football Talk, has Smith as the Steelers' first round pick. I think that is an overreaction, but it does show that national reporters place credence in this "noise." Factor in the roster and depth chart, which reveals a need for a versatile offensive lineman to fill in due to the inevitable injury, and the contract status of Ramon Foster, and the selection of an offensive lineman is a high priority.

The draft stock of Donovan Smith continues to rise. There are mock drafts that show Smith going in the second round to teams other than the Steelers. Smith is attending the draft.

Mike Munchak reportedly really liked what he saw during his visit to Penn State. I think Munchak wants at least one guy in this draft, and if it isn't Smith, I think it is Sean Hickey, who has been working out with Tunch Ilkin. Donovan Smith has the size and skill to play left tackle, even though he is still a work in progress. Smith hasn't visited the Steelers, but maybe the Steelers don't need to see him again, and they want to avoid the appearance of interest in the guy.

Put all these things together and that tells me the Steelers have him targeted. I could be wrong, but I don't get paid to prognosticate like all the talking heads that will also be wrong.

good response, thanks! :drink:

[katmandu]

Hi all.

I was a long-time contributor over at Steelers Fever. Then, kaploowey!!! I used to write articles for Steelers Fever (in the pre-kaploowey days), and I currently write for a website called The Point of Pittsburgh. Here is my most recent article about the Steelers.

The Big Board
by Tiger Rowan

In any given draft, I take the spot at which the Steelers are drafting, and make a list of that same number of “possible” players that could be drafted, up to and including when the Steelers pick. This year, the Steelers draft 22nd, so I have created a list of twenty-two prospects. Furthermore, for those twenty-two candidates, I have divided them out into different categories...

Read more here:
http://www.thepointofpittsburgh.com/the-big-board/

I hope that you enjoy the article.Great stuff and Welcome aboard !

Q: What took you so long to join the BEST Steeler Messageboard on the Internet ?

[teegre]

Great stuff and Welcome aboard !

Q: What took you so long to join the BEST Steeler Messageboard on the Internet ?

I appreciate the kind words, and the warm welcome.

And, to answer your query: Lord Lannister had my daughter in his clutches, and I had to fight the Mountain in order to finally free her.


(I've been on a Game of Thrones kick recently.)

[LLT]

I appreciate the kind words, and the warm welcome.

And, to answer your query: Lord Lannister had my daughter in his clutches, and I had to fight the Mountain in order to finally free her.




http://www.alpinevillagecenter.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/10jaqen.jpg

Take this coin...say the words "Valar Morghulis"...and you may enter any conversation.

[teegre]

http://www.alpinevillagecenter.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/10jaqen.jpg

Take this coin...say the words "Valar Morghulis"...and you may enter any conversation.

:applaudit:

That is freakin' awesome!!!

[teegre]

There has been a lot of "noise" linking Smith to the Steelers. So much so that one mock draft, Pro Football Talk, has Smith as the Steelers' first round pick. I think that is an overreaction, but it does show that national reporters place credence in this "noise." Factor in the roster and depth chart, which reveals a need for a versatile offensive lineman to fill in due to the inevitable injury, and the contract status of Ramon Foster, and the selection of an offensive lineman is a high priority.

The draft stock of Donovan Smith continues to rise. There are mock drafts that show Smith going in the second round to teams other than the Steelers. Smith is attending the draft.

Mike Munchak reportedly really liked what he saw during his visit to Penn State. I think Munchak wants at least one guy in this draft, and if it isn't Smith, I think it is Sean Hickey, who has been working out with Tunch Ilkin. Donovan Smith has the size and skill to play left tackle, even though he is still a work in progress. Smith hasn't visited the Steelers, but maybe the Steelers don't need to see him again, and they want to avoid the appearance of interest in the guy.

Put all these things together and that tells me the Steelers have him targeted. I could be wrong, but I don't get paid to prognosticate like all the talking heads that will also be wrong.

Thank you.

There was a discussion started, on my old forum, about Donovan Smith. Someone had posted an article or something... and, it led to a nice little discussion about him.

Anyway, Munchak was the key.

Munchak likes the kid, and that goes a long way. If they get Smith and play him at LT, moving Beachum over to LG: great. If they draft him to play LG: great. Either way: as long as the LG spot is upgraded. Foster is good, but during the playoffs, Ngata exposed this one weakness on offense. Improve the LG spot, and there is almost nothing that this offense can't do.

[hawaiiansteeler]

Munchak likes the kid, and that goes a long way. If they get Smith and play him at LT, moving Beachum over to LG: great.

Beachum is a technician.

I prefer my guards to be more the mauler types...

[teegre]

Beachum is a technician.

I prefer my guards to be more the mauler types...

I hear you... I do. But...

Think about DD. He's best at pulling and blocking on the run. One-to-one/straight forward blocking is not DD's forté. The counter left (or whatever the play was called) that they ran against Cincy (at one point, like five time in a row) was unstoppable, because the play was designed to match DD up against an ILB. DD wins that battle every single time.

Now... imagine Beachum doing the exact same thing, only to the right.



Bell might have 2,000 yards rushing... by game ten.

[hawaiiansteeler]

Now... imagine Beachum doing the exact same thing, only to the right.

Bell might have 2,000 yards rushing... by game ten.

that would be pretty impressive indeed, especially considering Bell is suspended for the first 3 games of the season...:nervous:

[teegre]

that would be pretty impressive indeed, especially considering Bell is suspended for the first 3 games of the season...:nervous:

I was told that there would be no math...

[LLT]

I was told that there would be no math...

LOL...I want my coin back.

[teegre]

LOL...I want my coin back.

D'oh.

I shall redeem myself...

[stillers4me]

Landon Collins visiting today.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

[stillers4me]

https://twitter.com/BobLabriola/status/590892646781956096

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

[teegre]

Landon Collins visiting today.


The more & more I think about it, this is the pick that needs to happen at 22.

My gut tells me that the OLBs will all be gone by 22, and the value just isn't there for CB.

Simply, the drop-off from the CBs available at 22, and the ones likely there at 56, is minimal. Whereas, the drop-off from Collins to the rest of the safeties is significant.

If Shamarko is ready, then Collins isn't needed. Then again, Shamarko is always injured. In other words, who really knows whether Shamarko is going to be the starting SS of the future (or, if he's just a good back-up).

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https://twitter.com/BobLabriola/status/590892646781956096


If you switch the R2 pick to a different CB (Quinten Rollins), I'd take those guys as the first four picks.

[LLT]

The more & more I think about it, this is the pick that needs to happen at 22.

My gut tells me that the OLBs will all be gone by 22, and the value just isn't there for CB.

Simply, the drop-off from the CBs available at 22, and the ones likely there at 56, is minimal. Whereas, the drop-off from Collins to the rest of the safeties is significant.

If Shamarko is ready, then Collins isn't needed. Then again, Shamarko is always injured. In other words, who really knows whether Shamarko is going to be the starting SS of the future (or, if he's just a good back-up).

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If you switch the R2 pick to a different CB (Quinten Rollins), I'd take those guys as the first four picks.

Gotta believe that the FO hasn't given up on Shamarko. LOVE that they are bringing in Tull.

[teegre]

Gotta believe that the FO hasn't given up on Shamarko. LOVE that they are bringing in Tull.

It may not even be that they've given up on Shamarko, as much as it is that they aren't 100% certain about what they have. Think about it this way: Vince Williams looked good, and they had Sean Spence... yet, they still drafted Ryan Shazier. Likewise, Shamarko has looked good (when not injured), but they still might draft Collins.

Tull in R3? R2? R4???

[LLT]

It may not even be that they've given up on Shamarko, as much as it is that they aren't 100% certain about what they have. Think about it this way: Vince Williams looked good, and they had Sean Spence... yet, they still drafted Ryan Shazier. Likewise, Shamarko has looked good (when not injured), but they still might draft Collins.

Tull in R3? R2? R4???


I think Tull may be there in Rd3. I see your point with Williams and Spence...BUT...Williams was drafted as insurance in the 6th round. I think the Steelers tale a similar approach and draft a safety in the 4-6 round.

[hawaiiansteeler]

Tull in R3? R2? R4???

certainly not in Round 2.

depending on how much the Steelers like Tull and whether or not they have already drafted an edge rusher in rounds 1 or 2, they may select him as early as Round 3 or wait to see if he's still available in Round 4.

[teegre]

I think Tull may be there in Rd3. I see your point with Williams and Spence...BUT...Williams was drafted as insurance in the 6th round. I think the Steelers tale a similar approach and draft a safety in the 4-6 round.

R4: Jordan Richards, S, Stanford

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certainly not in Round 2.

depending on how much the Steelers like Tull and whether or not they have already drafted an edge rusher in rounds 1 or 2, they may select him as early as Round 3 or wait to see if he's still available in Round 4.

Thank you. I honestly didn't know where he's projected to land.

R3 would be great, allowing them to go CB in R2, and BPA in R1.

[hawaiiansteeler]

R3 would be great, allowing them to go CB in R2, and BPA in R1.

I agree, go BPA in Round 1.

if that's not a CB, Steelers could still select Eric Rowe, Byron Jones, Quintin Rollins or Alex Carter in Round 2 or IEO, Josh Shaw, Doran Grant or Steven Nelson in Round 3.

similarly, Steelers could address OLB in round 2 with Nate Orchard or Danielle Hunter or in round 3 with Hau'oli Kikaha, Lorenzo Mauldin, Markus Golden or Davis Tull.

[teegre]

I agree, go BPA in Round 1.

if that's not a CB, Steelers could still select Eric Rowe, Byron Jones, Quintin Rollins or Alex Carter in Round 2 or IEO, Josh Shaw, Doran Grant or Steven Nelson in Round 3.

similarly, Steelers could address OLB in round 2 with Nate Orchard or Danielle Hunter or in round 3 with Hau'oli Kikaha, Lorenzo Mauldin, Markus Golden or Davis Tull.

That sounds like a plan.

A few thoughts...

I love Alex Carter. I have a sneaking suspicion that he sneaks into late R1. I highly doubt he's there at 56. If so... JACKPOT!!! If they wait until R3, I like Nelson. Ifo Ekpre-Olomu is the interesting pick; where does he land??? I could see him at 45 or at 95.

Orchard wants its to play DE in a 4-3. Hunter is my guess (if it's an OLB in R2)... and, Golden if it's R3. Whoops... I have to add Tull to possible picks in R3.

[Bluecoat96]

I know this is off topic, and I apologize for it, but the new members around here like you teegre have really brought some great conversation and debate. I really enjoy reading the posts here as of late.

[hawaiiansteeler]

I know this is off topic, and I apologize for it, but the new members around here like you teegre have really brought some great conversation and debate. I really enjoy reading the posts here as of late.

teegre is an awesome poster, he only gets better with time.

Steelers Fever's loss is now Steelers Universe's gain! :thumbsup:

[Lady Steel]

teegre is an awesome poster, he only gets better with time.

Steelers Fever's loss is now Steelers Universe's gain! :thumbsup:

Teegre is an awesome poster, for sure, and you're a top-notch poster yourself, 5-0. Please don't ever sell yourself short. :drink:

[hawaiiansteeler]

Teegre is an awesome poster, for sure, and you're a top-notch poster yourself, 5-0. Please don't ever sell yourself short. :drink:

why thank you Lady Steel, flattery will get you everywhere with me! :thumbsup:

and the feeling is mutual, I think you're a very cool and great poster also...:cool:

[hawaiiansteeler]

James C Wexell @jimwexell -

Preston Smith visits the #Steelers. Finally, an asskicker who can play OLB in their "base" and DE in their nickel.

Smith also played one-gap nose on passing downs. An underrated player.” -- yes, saw him sack LSU as NT.

https://twitter.com/jimwexell

[stillers4me]

I, too, want to add a hearty welcome to all our new friends from SF. It's hard to lose the home where you felt comfortable, like a teenager who's parents move you away to a different state and new school and you have no say about it. :chuckle:

Welcome! :drink:

[teegre]

I know this is off topic, and I apologize for it, but the new members around here like you teegre have really brought some great conversation and debate. I really enjoy reading the posts here as of late.

Thank you for the kind words.

Hopefully, my sense of humor doesn't scare everyone away. :willy:

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teegre is an awesome poster, he only gets better with time.

Steelers Fever's loss is now Steelers Universe's gain! :thumbsup:

The same can (& is) said about you, my friend.

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Teegre is an awesome poster, for sure, and you're a top-notch poster yourself, 5-0. Please don't ever sell yourself short. :drink:

If you weren't my cousin, I'd marry you.

Wait... I was born in West Virginia; so, I can. (LOL)



Really though, the feeling is mutual.

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I, too, want to add a hearty welcome to all our new friends from SF. It's hard to lose the home where you felt comfortable, like a teenager who's parents move you away to a different state and new school and you have no say about it. :chuckle:

Welcome! :drink:

Good analogy.

And, I'm appreciative of the warm welcome.

[Born2Steel]

I see a lot of mocks that have us taking players like Marcus Peters, Randy Gregory, and PJ Williams. These guys may be great football players but are we desperate enough that we take high risk guys in the early rounds? Williams is apparently a DUI repeat offender, Gregory isn't smart enough, or doesn't care enough, to stop smoking weed, and Peters is seemingly the biggest risk of them all and possibly uncoachable even. If there are no pass rushers or DBs that we want at 22 besides these 3, I would be all in on taking Oline, Dline, TE, or even trading back for additional mid round picks. What are you guys/gals thinking on these players mocked to us?

[Mojouw]

I personally don't think Peters is a risk at all. I think he was made an example of by an inexperienced and new coaching staff to establish their authority. Many sources have indicated that it is behind him and at a better college program and certainly in the NFL the entire issue would have never happened. Peters has had zero off-field issues -- so I suspect anger and problems with authority are not a general thing with him.

PJ Williams is an idiot and would be off my board. He is likely not going to suddenly wise up when he gets a bunch of money.

Gregory seems similar on the surface, but I think pot is less of a problem than alcohol. Also the match-up of talent and need is too great to pass up. Steelers have a checkered history with pot and players. Worked with Santonio until it didn't. Worked with Mike Adams - except he kinda isn't that good. Remains to be seen with Bell. But if teams passed on every prospect or NFL player that smoked weed, there wouldn't be enough left for a draft.

[Born2Steel]

IMO, weed/alcohol is not the issue. If he can't put it down, he won't be on the field. That would make him a wasted pick. Josh Gordon may be a great player but........

[hawaiiansteeler]

Report: Missouri DE Shane Ray might need surgery, could be out 5 months

By Eric Edholm

Lance Zierlein, who writes for NFL.com, reported Thursday morning that Missouri pass rusher Shane Ray might need toe surgery and could be out as much as five months.

That would put the start of Ray's rookie season in doubt and could make him a PUP (Physically Unable to Perform) list candidate. Might that drop Ray, who had been talked about as a top-10 pickm, from first-round consideration?

Shutdown Corner received texts back from two teams on Ray — one was concerned, one was not. The concerned team called Ray's toe "a major concern," and the one that didn't said their team doctors thought Ray could wear an orthotic shoe to help correct the problem, which could speed up his timetable.

Ray had a monster junior season for the Tigers, collecting 14.5 sacks and 22.5 tackles for loss in being named SEC Defensive Player of the Year. He declared early for the draft after setting the Mizzou single-season sack record but has been able to showcase his skills this offseason — including at the NFL scouting combine — because of the injury in his foot.

Although he worked out at his pro day, Ray turned in some sub-par running times. He might not be considered until the middle of the first round, and it's possible this injury and Ray's limitations as a 245-pound edge player could even cause a slide out of Round 1.

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutdown-corner/report--missouri-de-shane-ray-might-need-surgery--could-be-out-5-months-152508744.html;_ylt=A0SO8yULQzlVqiYArnpXNyoA;_ylu= X3oDMTEzcmsxOTJzBGNvbG8DZ3ExBHBvcwMxBHZ0aWQDVklQNT k0XzEEc2VjA3Nj

[teegre]

I see a lot of mocks that have us taking players like Marcus Peters, Randy Gregory, and PJ Williams. These guys may be great football players but are we desperate enough that we take high risk guys in the early rounds? Williams is apparently a DUI repeat offender, Gregory isn't smart enough, or doesn't care enough, to stop smoking weed, and Peters is seemingly the biggest risk of them all and possibly uncoachable even. If there are no pass rushers or DBs that we want at 22 besides these 3, I would be all in on taking Oline, Dline, TE, or even trading back for additional mid round picks. What are you guys/gals thinking on these players mocked to us?

I'm with you on trading back. The value for CB just isn't there at 22.

Kevin Johnson at 22: reach
Kevin Johnson at 30: okay
Kevin Johnson at 38: awesome

If they stay put, I think it's Landon Collins, Malcolm Brown, or even possibly an OG (Erving).

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IMO, weed/alcohol is not the issue. If he can't put it down, he won't be on the field. That would make him a wasted pick. Josh Gordon may be a great player but........

Exactly.

Weed: eh
Not knowing that you can't smoke week the week before the combine: dumb!!!

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@hawaiiansteeler

They just tweeted that Shane Ray will NOT need surgery. (I don't know how to post tweets.)

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[Born2Steel]

If a 1st round OLB falls to us I hope it's Dupree. He already has the size, strength, and speed to play for us. Ray is a little light, so is Beasley. Not saying I wouldn't take those 2, just that they would need to bulk up and get stronger. I just love that Dupree already brings that part to the table.

[hawaiiansteeler]

18 of the 29 pre-draft visitors to the Steelers play on the defensive side of the ball.

and of those 18, 10 were defensive backs...

[hawaiiansteeler]

They just tweeted that Shane Ray will NOT need surgery

yeah, just saw that too.

Question - if Ray is now available at #22, do you select him?

Report: Shane Ray doesn’t need foot surgery

Posted by Josh Alper on April 23, 2015

Missouri pass rusher Shane Ray wasn’t able to participate in the combine in February because of a foot injury he suffered in the team’s bowl game and the injury has lingered long enough to create concern from at least one team that he’d need surgery before he’d be ready to return to action.

Ian Rapoport of NFL Media reports that a foot specialist told Ray that’s not the case. Per Rapoport, Ray needs to rest the injury rather than have an operation.

There still might be an impact on his draft status, however. Chris Mortensen of ESPN reported the same about the need for surgery on television Thursday, but added that Ray will “need to take it easy initially” when he begins working with his new team.

Ray is part of a gaggle of pass rushing prospects, including Dante Fowler, Vic Beasley, Bud Dupree and Randy Gregory, that have been discussed as first-round picks. Any fear that his transition to the NFL will be compromised by an injury is likely to make teams think twice about using a high pick on Ray if they’ve got similar ratings on another available prospect.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com...-foot-surgery/

[Born2Steel]

Even though I would prefer Dupree if available, 22 is a great spot to take Shane Ray. Yes, I would take him there.

[hawaiiansteeler]

Even though I would prefer Dupree if available, 22 is a great spot to take Shane Ray. Yes, I would take him there.

I would have the draft card with Shane Ray's name on it up to the commissioner as soon as the last syllable was uttered for the 21st selection...

[hawaiiansteeler]

Ifo Ekpre-Olomu is the interesting pick; where does he land??? I could see him at 45 or at 95.


Ifo Ekpre-Olomu's Injury Worse Than Advertised

Updated April 22, 2015
By Charlie Campbell - @draftcampbell

A few months ago, Oregon cornerback Ifo Ekpre-Olomu was in the running to be the top-ranked corner, but then he suffered a knee injury during bowl practice before Oregon's game against Florida State. It was said to be a torn ACL, but team sources I've spoken to say the knee injury was much worse and was along the lines of Marcus Lattimore or Willis McGahee's rather than a simple ACL tear like the one suffered by Georgia running back Todd Gurley or Texas A&M offensive tackle Cedric Ogbuehi.

Sources say that Ekpre-Olomu tore more than an ACL and there was a variety of damage done to his knee. At one point, there were some teams' medical staffs that were wondering if lingering effects of the injury would force Ekpre-Olomu to retire before every playing again, like Lattimore. However, recent checks have been more positive and teams feel that Ekpre-Olomu has a shot at playing again.

The injury is significant enough, however, that some teams are putting Ekpre-Olomu in their undrafted prospect group. A contact from one team thinks that Ekpre-Olomu could have a shot at going on day three of the draft like Lattimore did, but their team doesn't have a round grade on Ekpre-Olomu because of the medical report. They have Ekpre-Olomu as an undrafted free agent as well.

http://www.walterfootball.com/nfldraftrumormill.php

[teegre]

yeah, just saw that too.

Years ago, in one season, Steve McNair had a cracked rib, a bruised sternum, a swollen knee, a torn rotator cuff, a broken finger, and a bruise on some internal organ... and he still played the entire season.

The following season, he was healthy, except for turf toe... and he missed several games.

ANALYSIS:
Toe injuries are killers.

SUMMATION:
If it is turf toe, I don't draft him.

[LLT]

I see a lot of mocks that have us taking players like Marcus Peters, Randy Gregory, and PJ Williams. These guys may be great football players but are we desperate enough that we take high risk guys in the early rounds? Williams is apparently a DUI repeat offender, Gregory isn't smart enough, or doesn't care enough, to stop smoking weed, and Peters is seemingly the biggest risk of them all and possibly uncoachable even. If there are no pass rushers or DBs that we want at 22 besides these 3, I would be all in on taking Oline, Dline, TE, or even trading back for additional mid round picks. What are you guys/gals thinking on these players mocked to us?


I have Kevin Johnson as #24 on my personal draft board...so in my humble opinion I think he is a great first round pick. I think that most of the OLB's that we may be serious about are either gone in the first (Beasley, Dupree)...or fall into that "dead" area between the first and second picks. Orchard, Hunter, and Tull are real possibilities.

The wild card for me is ...What will the FO do if Gregory falls to #22?

[Texasteel]

I'm with you on trading back. The value for CB just isn't there at 22.

Kevin Johnson at 22: reach
Kevin Johnson at 30: okay
Kevin Johnson at 38: awesome

If they stay put, I think it's Landon Collins, Malcolm Brown, or even possibly an OG (Erving).


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I've been preaching trading down for a few months now. I believe LLT, and Dwins has as well. I don't think Johnson would be there at the end of the 1st, early 2nd, but I think Collins may. You can then use the extra pick you get put it with our 2nd round pick and trade back up in the second if there is an OLBer you like, or, use the extra pick to double up on CB or OLB, or, grab a O-lineman earlier than you would have.

By the way bud, Erving has been one of my favorite players this year, would not mine seeing him in Black and Gold.

[Born2Steel]

I have Kevin Johnson as #24 on my personal draft board...so in my humble opinion I think he is a great first round pick. I think that most of the OLB's that we may be serious about are either gone in the first (Beasley, Dupree)...or fall into that "dead" area between the first and second picks. Orchard, Hunter, and Tull are real possibilities.

The wild card for me is ...What will the FO do if Gregory falls to #22?

Not sure. My opinion is let him keep sliding. The FO will most likely draft him. I wouldn't risk our first round pick on a guy we can't be positive will even be able to get on the field.

[LLT]

Not sure. My opinion is let him keep sliding. The FO will most likely draft him. I wouldn't risk our first round pick on a guy we can't be positive will even be able to get on the field.

Oh...I agree. I've never been a fan of head cases and especially wouldn't gamble a first round pick on him.

[Steelman]

I have Kevin Johnson as #24 on my personal draft board...so in my humble opinion I think he is a great first round pick. I think that most of the OLB's that we may be serious about are either gone in the first (Beasley, Dupree)...or fall into that "dead" area between the first and second picks. Orchard, Hunter, and Tull are real possibilities.

The wild card for me is ...What will the FO do if Gregory falls to #22?

I would hope some other pass-rushing starved teams would be blowing up our phones for a trade. I've seen some recent mocks having Gregory sliding past us, so maybe it was a good move for the Steelers to bring him in for a visit.

[Dwinsgames]

SMH , wondering what Big Boards some of you are looking at ...

Hau'oli Kikaha will not be a 3rd round pick , he could even go very late round 1 but most defiantly gone by round 2 .. Marcus Golden in the 3rd ( I used to think so ) but not so much now , he may not go to late round 4 or even 5 he lacks athletic prowess and his game really does not transfer much better to the NFL as his former team mate whos name will go unspoken because the camera crews will soon follow if it is .... ( heres cake in the face ) not at the poster but a hint to the players identity ...

its easy to toss names around but its a ton more difficult to line them up where they should be .... if we draft Golden my guess is he never sees the field in a 3-4 alignment and probably cut by season 3 ( if he lasts that long )

these are not the only guys but perhaps the most out of line guys are those two ( for me anyways ) but hey what do I know

[hawaiiansteeler]

SMH , wondering what Big Boards some of you are looking at ...

Hau'oli Kikaha will not be a 3rd round pick , he could even go very late round 1

Kikaha ran a very slow 40 time and has medical concerns that have reportedly caused some teams to take him off their board altogether.

he goes nowhere near Round 1...

[Dwinsgames]

Kikaha ran a very slow 40 time and has medical concerns that have reportedly caused some teams to take him off their board altogether.

he goes nowhere near Round 1...


I keep hearing this infamous redflag medical ...I call BS he missed 1 game in the last 2 seasons while tabulating 31 sacks in those 2 seasons

as a side note I couldnt give 2 shits what his 40 time is if he has to run 40 yards in a single play the play has already gashed us ...

OLB times mean nothing in the 40 ... show me 5 yard or 10 yard times those mean something

3 cone is probably the best example of a combine test for a OLB and Kikaha is right where it should be and better than some of the " top OLB prospects "

[hawaiiansteeler]

I keep hearing this infamous redflag medical ...I call BS he missed 1 game in the last 2 seasons while tabulating 31 sacks in those 2 seasons

as a side note I couldnt give 2 shits what his 40 time is if he has to run 40 yards in a single play the play has already gashed us ...

OLB times mean nothing in the 40 ... show me 5 yard or 10 yard times those mean something

Kikaha is a Hawaii boy so I wish only the best for him.

but he's not going anywhere near the first round...

[Dwinsgames]

Dupree ...
Pro Day Results
20-yard short shuttle: 4.47 seconds
Three-cone drill: 7.49 seconds
Kikaha
Short shuttle: 4.33 seconds
3-cone: 7.13 seconds


per example

[hawaiiansteeler]

Dupree ...
Pro Day Results
20-yard short shuttle: 4.47 seconds
Three-cone drill: 7.49 seconds
Kikaha
Short shuttle: 4.33 seconds
3-cone: 7.13 seconds


per example

wanna bet Kikaha goes closer to Round 3 than Round 1?

[Dwinsgames]

wanna bet Kikaha goes closer to Round 3 than Round 1?

mind you I said LATE round 1 or round 2 but NOT 3

so since you think round 3 ... lets make it on equal ground

I say he is drafted before round 2 ends ... you can have all the rounds there after

[teegre]

I've been preaching trading down for a few months now. I believe LLT, and Dwins has as well. I don't think Johnson would be there at the end of the 1st, early 2nd, but I think Collins may. You can then use the extra pick you get put it with our 2nd round pick and trade back up in the second if there is an OLBer you like, or, use the extra pick to double up on CB or OLB, or, grab a O-lineman earlier than you would have.

By the way bud, Erving has been one of my favorite players this year, would not mine seeing him in Black and Gold.

We agree 100%.

Yep, we might risk losing KJ, but if you give me Jalen Collins and an extra pick instead, I'm happy.

And, I've been advocating the "trade back in R1, then trade up in R2" philosophy for months; great minds think alike.

Lastly, a fellow Cam Erving fan. Awesome.

[hawaiiansteeler]

mind you I said LATE round 1 or round 2 but NOT 3

so since you think round 3 ... lets make it on equal ground

I say he is drafted before round 2 ends ... you can have all the rounds there after

equal ground is after the midway of round 2.

you said he could possibly go as high as the end of round 1 and don't believe there is any way Kikaha will be drafted as low as round 3.

I'll compromise with you though, how about I say Kikaha will still be available when the Steelers draft in the second round at 2(56)...

[Dwinsgames]

equal ground is after the midway of round 2.

you said he could possibly go as high as the end of round 1 and don't believe there is any way Kikaha will be drafted as low as round 3.

I'll compromise with you though, how about I say Kikaha will still be available when the Steelers draft in the second round at 2(56)...

I hope you are right with that and it is possible , but a lot will depend on how teams look at smoking dope of other prospects , how they view Shane Rays foot and if they over value Eli Harold ...

for me I take Kikaha all day long before I even glance in Harold's direction but that is me not everyone feels the same way ...

I just see no way Kikaha makes it out of round 2 but I do see ways he makes it into late round 1 ( only takes 1 team to fall in love )

some in this thread even seem to think round 3 ... if you re read the thread ... I think its far more likely he goes round 1 than round 3

[hawaiiansteeler]

for me I take Kikaha all day long before I even glance in Harold's direction but that is me not everyone feels the same way ...

I just see no way Kikaha makes it out of round 2 but I do see ways he makes it into late round 1 ( only takes 1 team to fall in love )

some in this thread even seem to think round 3 ... if you re read the thread ... I think its far more likely he goes round 1 than round 3

I take Eli Harold over Kikaha all day long and twice on Sundays.

and yes, I've read this entire thread.

Kikaha has a way higher probability of being selected in the 3rd round than he does of in the 1st (which I believe to be zero)

[Dwinsgames]

I take Eli Harold over Kikaha all day long and twice on Sundays.

and yes, I've read this entire thread.

Kikaha has a way higher probability of being selected in the 3rd round than he does of in the 1st (which I believe to be zero)


not from where I sit ( or MANY MANY draftnick friends of mine on twitter )

[hawaiiansteeler]

not from where I sit ( or MANY MANY draftnick friends of mine on twitter )

so what are we betting then?

[Born2Steel]

From my own personal view(team need + players I like most to fill that need), I would love to see Jalen Collins in the 1st, and Kikaha in the 2nd. I believe both of those are going to be stars in the league. There are others of course, but that would suit me and is possible, IMO.

[Dwinsgames]

so what are we betting then?

my original comment stands he will not make it out of the second round ... you wanna make a wager on that I am all for it

[hawaiiansteeler]

my original comment stands he will not make it out of the second round ... you wanna make a wager on that I am all for it

perhaps, but he sure isn't going in Round 1...

he's way more likely to go in Round 3 than in Round 1, that I'm willing to bet a lot of $$$ on.

[Dwinsgames]

I got 50 bucks says he never makes it to round 3 ... you in or not ?

[Dwinsgames]

the guys over at draft breakdown do a hell of a job on player evals , film breakdowns etc talk draft with many of them on twitter and Bryan Perez @firstroundgrade does a nice job here ( as usual )

Overview:

Hau’oli Kikaha, the Washington Huskie sack artist, enters the 2015 NFL Draft after back to back seasons of outstanding production on the edge. In 2014, he totaled 19 sacks and 25 TFL en route to unanimous First Team All-American accolades. His 19 sacks and 25 TFL set a single-season school record in both categories. In 2013, Kikaha tallied 13 sacks and 15.5 TFL; he was named Second Team All-Pac 12 that year. His career total 36 sacks is also a Washington school record. Prior to the 2013 season, Kikaha suffered two serious knee injuries (2011 and 2012) causing him to miss the better part of both seasons. Physically, Kikaha bulked up a bit in 2014 but he still is a tweener for purposes of his projection to the next level. That said, his tape suggests that he has enough functional strength and overall explosive talent to play with his hand in the dirt in a 43 front. Athletically, Kikaha displayed the kind of movement skills and burst to be confident that he is fully recovered from his past knee injuries. When in the 2 pt stance, Kikaha displayed the kind of fluid hips and quick feet needed to drop into coverage, as well as the ability to plant his foot hard in the dirt and explode forward. He wasn’t thinking about his knee in ’14. He possesses a quick first step at the snap and plays with a coordinated style; his upper body complements his lower half and he never appears wild or out of control. Kikaha has good balance and is a flexible guy, displaying the ability to bend the edge on a consistent basis. He is an explosive guy who has the kind of strength required to stuff the opposing lineman. He plays with a relentless motor and is going 100 mph from snap to whistle. His effort leads to production even when he is initially contained at the LOS. Against the pass, Kikaha possesses some of the best pass rushing traits in the class. His hand play is outstanding; you can see his judo background on film. He is able to keep himself clean with violent and powerful slaps. He is a real challenge for opposing linemen to lock onto. In addition, his pass rush arsenal is well developed. He can beat the tackle to the edge with speed, convert his speed to power, rip and spin. He is not a one-trick pony by any stretch. Against the run, Kikaha is a reliable edge player who can set the edge, shed and finish the play. He is a sound tackler and he as the speed to chase down a defender in pursuit. One of the most appealing aspects of Kikaha’s game is his intensity and the passion that he displays on the field. His fiery approach is contagious; he wants to win on every down.
BOTTOM LINE: Hau’oli Kikaha is arguably the most well-rounded edge player in the class who is scheme diverse and an immediate impact pass rusher. His hand usage will allow him to see the field early in his career with successful results. He is a (+) athlete with a developed game from both a physical and IQ standpoint. If it wasn’t for his history of knee injuries, he would be an enticing top-10 pick. That said, you can’t ignore the potential impact that his knee surgeries will have on his longevity. At the end of the day, Kikaha is a starting NFL pass rusher who offers a 3-down skill set. He’s a borderline elite talent.
Grade: 8.6 (1st Round)

http://draftbreakdown.com/players/hauoli-kikaha/#player-report


-------------------------------------------------

[hawaiiansteeler]

I got 50 bucks says he never makes it to round 3 ... you in or not ?

I got $100 bucks that says he doesn't get drafted in Round 1.

you in or not?

[Dwinsgames]

I got $100 bucks that says he doesn't get drafted in Round 1.

you in or not?

would be a fools bet because if he goes round 1 its going to be in the very late stages ... betting on that gives me about 4 chances or I am wrong ... so hell no

but you where the guy claiming he wont go till round 3 ... so put your money where your mouth is or shut the hell up about it

[hawaiiansteeler]

would be a fools bet because if he goes round 1 its going to be in the very late stages ... betting on that gives me about 4 chances or I am wrong ... so hell no

but you where the guy claiming he wont go till round 3 ... so put your money where your mouth is or shut the hell up about it

how about I give you $50 if Kikaha gets drafted in Round 1 and you give me $50 if he gets drafted in Round 3 or later with it being a wash if he gets drafted in Round 2?

[Dwinsgames]

how about I give you $50 if Kikaha gets drafted in Round 1 and you give me $50 if he gets drafted in Round 3 or later with it being a wash if he gets drafted in Round 2?

that still only gives me like 4 selection spots so no deal

[Steelman]

:pop2:

[hawaiiansteeler]

that still only gives me like 4 selection spots so no deal

which is why I find your assertion that Kikaha could go late Round 1 just as preposterous as you find my suggestion that he could actually slip into Round 3...

[teegre]

so put your money where your mouth is or shut the hell up about it

RE-CAP:

You called Hawaii out first (about his claim that Kihaha won't go until R3).

You averred that Kihaha will go "closer to R1" than R3.

Between pick number 50 & pick #51 would split R2 evenly in half. (33-50 would be "closer to R1" and 51-64 would be "closer to R3".)

Hawaii offered even more than that (pick #56).

And, you want the ENTIRE second round.


So... here we are.

[LLT]

Since this thread is about draft picks and not about wagers...how about we get back on target and leave the wagering to personal messages.

- - - Updated - - -


would be a fools bet because if he goes round 1 its going to be in the very late stages ... betting on that gives me about 4 chances or I am wrong ... so hell no

but you where the guy claiming he wont go till round 3 ... so put your money where your mouth is or shut the hell up about it

How about you cool your jets...and discuss politely.

[hawaiiansteeler]

I have always found NflDraftScout.com to be pretty reliable...

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/prospectrankings/2015/OLB

[LLT]

I have always found NflDraftScout.com to be pretty reliable...

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/prospectrankings/2015/OLB

I compile my own draft board. ...have done so for about 6 years now...but that is the best draft site on the Web.

[hawaiiansteeler]

I compile my own draft board. ...have done so for about 6 years now...but that is the best draft site on the Web.

that's cool...

do you publish or post your draft board anywhere or do you just use it as a personal reference?

[stillers4me]

I'm seriously excited and anxious for Thursday night! So much on the line for Pittsburgh this year.........are we finally going to get our secondary addressed or will the chips not fall our way? Anything can happen..........my finger nails are going to chewed off by the time our pick comes up!

[stillers4me]

Eddie Bouchetty has us passing over Marcus Peters and Landon Collins for an OLB.

http://www.steelersdepot.com/2015/04/mock-ed-bouchettes-mock-draft-pick-for-the-steelers/

We have needs there, too....but how many flat screen TV's are going to be replaced next weekend when remotes get thrown into them??? It's going to be a big weekend at Best Buy! :lol:

[teegre]

Eddie Bouchetty has us passing over Marcus Peters and Landon Collins for an OLB.

http://www.steelersdepot.com/2015/04/mock-ed-bouchettes-mock-draft-pick-for-the-steelers/

We have needs there, too....but how many flat screen TV's are going to replace next weekend when remotes get thrown into them??? It's going to be a big weekend at Best Buy! :lol:

Hear me out:
One could argue that OLB is just as big of a need as CB. Harrison is old, Jones has not lived up to his billing, and while I like Moats, his ceiling is just about reached. A good pass-rush helps a secondary, and vice versa.

The two glaring needs are CB & OLB. If they go CB, then OLB... I'd be happy. If they go OLB, then CB... I'll be happy.

That said, Gregory scares the hell out of me. Because of the new rules, he's one drug test away from a year-long suspension.

Do not get me wrong: I have no problem with weed. I'm sure that 50% of the players in the NFL have partaken, at some pion in their lives. What concerns me about Gregory is that he KNEW that he was going to be tested at the Combine, and he still wasn't smart enough to stop smoking. Someone will undoubtably bring up Justin Houston; to which, I remind everyone that Houston dropped to R3. The risk factor in taking high-risk player in R3 pales in comparison to taking him in R1.

[teegre]

I'm seriously excited and anxious for Thursday night! So much on the line for Pittsburgh this year.........are we finally going to get our secondary addressed or will the chips not fall our way? Anything can happen..........my finger nails are going to chewed off by the time our pick comes up!

I know, huh.

I'm taking the day off, spending the morning with my son (10 mos)... that way I'm home & ready* for that first pick.


*(I'm on the left coast, and the draft kicks off at 5:00... and my normal commute would get me home at around pick #7.)

[SteelerFanInStl]

Eddie Bouchetty has us passing over Marcus Peters and Landon Collins for an OLB.

http://www.steelersdepot.com/2015/04/mock-ed-bouchettes-mock-draft-pick-for-the-steelers/

We have needs there, too....but how many flat screen TV's are going to be replaced next weekend when remotes get thrown into them??? It's going to be a big weekend at Best Buy! :lol:

I'll be one of them yelling if that happens. That would be completely stupid.

[teegre]

I'll be one of them yelling if that happens. That would be completely stupid.

Explain further, please.

Stupid or because of the player?... or, stupid because of the position picked?

[LLT]

that's cool...

do you publish or post your draft board anywhere or do you just use it as a personal reference?

Just personal reference. Being that its "slanted" towards players that I feel "fit" the Steelers system....it resembles a lot of the big boards that you see on other sites, but with a bit more emphasis on character and a little less emphasis on stats. (some players stats can be padded by the college system). I then adjust by using a simple "eyes test" by watching film. I try and NOT watch highlight reels...because they can make a high school player look like an all pro. Instead I look for nuances like: reaction time...knee bend...leverage...pad level...route running...etc. Bad plays are sometime more telling then highlight tapes.
I also give extra consideration to those players with more than one year of strong college play...and I use Pat Kirwans "power scale" for offensive and defensive players to determine their ability to play at the pro level.

Using that board, I THEN look at team needs... haunt fan sites to see what the consensus is....and check out combine interviews, pro day visits, and team visits....which gives me an idea as to who teams might be targeting.

[SteelerFanInStl]

Explain further, please.

Stupid or because of the player?... or, stupid because of the position picked?

Mostly because of the player. I'm not so much against going OLBer in the first but I would hate taking Gregory. How can you pass on Peters but take Gregory? The only reason that I can see for passing on Peters is because of what happened to him at Washington. For me, the issues with Gregory are worse than Peters. Gregory's lack of bulk and the stupidity of failing a drug test at the combine along with the multiple failed drug tests at Nebraska means that I don't use a 1st round pick to take him.

I also really like Peters and feel that we need to take him if he's available. He's one of the most talented CBs in the draft and I don't see his issues as being that big of a problem. After seeing so many terrible CBs drafted for the past 10 years, I want the most talented guy available.

I guess that you could also say that I've become a bit tired of us constantly using 1st & 2nd round picks on LBers while we continue to ignore the secondary. OLBer is definitely a need but I'd like to see the secondary addressed first as long as it's not a reach.

[Dwinsgames]

RE-CAP:

You called Hawaii out first (about his claim that Kihaha won't go until R3).

You averred that Kihaha will go "closer to R1" than R3.

Between pick number 50 & pick #51 would split R2 evenly in half. (33-50 would be "closer to R1" and 51-64 would be "closer to R3".)

Hawaii offered even more than that (pick #56).

And, you want the ENTIRE second round.


So... here we are.

damn straight I want round 2 he stated round 3 or later ... why would I not want what comes before that point when I stated LATE first or second round

[LLT]

Mostly because of the player. I'm not so much against going OLBer in the first but I would hate taking Gregory. How can you pass on Peters but take Gregory? The only reason that I can see for passing on Peters is because of what happened to him at Washington. For me, the issues with Gregory are worse than Peters. Gregory's lack of bulk and the stupidity of failing a drug test at the combine along with the multiple failed drug tests at Nebraska means that I don't use a 1st round pick to take him.

I also really like Peters and feel that we need to take him if he's available. He's one of the most talented CBs in the draft and I don't see his issues as being that big of a problem. After seeing so many terrible CBs drafted for the past 10 years, I want the most talented guy available.

I guess that you could also say that I've become a bit tired of us constantly using 1st & 2nd round picks on LBers while we continue to ignore the secondary. OLBer is definitely a need but I'd like to see the secondary addressed first as long as it's not a reach.

The silver lining is that we would most definately have suiters who would be willing to trade into the spot and take Gregory. We trade down and take a cornerback like Rowe (who I really like) instead of Johnson (who I love).

- - - Updated - - -


damn straight I want round 2 he stated round 3 or later ... why would I not want what comes before that point when I stated LATE first or second round

Again....take it to a pm.

[hawaiiansteeler]

My ideal Steelers draft

by Dale Lolley
Friday, April 24, 2015

I'm tired of doing mock drafts, even though I will do my final one later this week. So instead, today I'll do a mock eight-selection draft for the Steelers, who have eight picks in the seven-round draft, with the players I think the team will target in each round.

Obviously, availability will have a lot to do with this, otherwise, I'd simply plug in Dante Fowler in the first round, even though there's no way he's there in with the 22nd pick.

Round 1-Kevin Johnson, CB, Wake Forest - I think Johnson will be there for the Steelers and he's a guy who can, at the very least, step right in as the nickel corner. I could also see Byron Jones being the guy. But if Shane Ray's toe injury causes him to fall, he's go a shot as well.

Round 2-Lorenzo Mauldin, OLB, Louisville - Kid who had 16 different sets of foster homes could find a home with the Steelers. Was a productive collegiate pass rusher and is considered a high-character guy. Just what the Steelers need. If they go OLB in the first, then they go corner in the second, with Quentin Rollins, Eric Rowe or Jalen Collins being targets - yes, I think Collins falls that far.

Round 3-Tre McBride, WR, William & Mary - Mike Tomlin bites the bullet and takes a kid from his alma mater. McBride is worth the pick. He's the next in the long line of third-round receivers who make an impact with the Steelers.

Round 4-Senquez Golson, CB, Ole Miss - Golson isn't very big, but all he does is make big plays. The Steelers could use a player like that.

Round 5-Shaquille Mason, G/C, Georgia Tech - Mason is the kind of athlete the Steelers have drafted in recent years on their offensive line. He's a bit undersized, but he can pull and run block well coming from Tech's run-heavy offense.

Round 6 (1)-Wes Saxton, TE, South Alabama - Saxton is a better athlete than a football player right now, but the Steelers have a little time to develop him before Heath Miller hangs up his pads for good. He's a willing blocker and ran a 4.65 40.

Round 6 (2)-Kyle Emmanuel, OLB, North Dakota State - A big-time playmaker at the lower levels, Emmanuel might eventually develop into a valuable backup with starter capabilities. At worst, he's a core special teams player.

Round 7-Corey Crawford, DE, Clemson - At 6-5, 299, he's got ideal size for a 3-4 defensive end. He might never be starter quality, but could be a valuable backup.

Well, there it is. I realize there are no running backs on the list, but there weren't any I wanted to take over the value picks of McBride, Golson, Mason and Saxton in the middle round. Then, you might as well wait and bring in a URFA.

http://nflfromthesidelines.blogspot.com/2015/04/my-ideal-steelers-draft.html

[polamalubeast]

I don't want a another wide receiver in the first 3 round!

[SteelerFanInStl]

The silver lining is that we would most definately have suiters who would be willing to trade into the spot and take Gregory. We trade down and take a cornerback like Rowe (who I really like) instead of Johnson (who I love).

I'd rather see a trade down than take Gregory, no doubt.

[LLT]

I don't want a another wide receiver in the first 3 round!

I would tend to agree with you...but looking at the average draft ranking of the WR's we brought in...I think its inevitable that we see one in the 2nd-4th rounds. Otherwise we wasted a LOT of draft visits.

- - - Updated - - -


My ideal Steelers draft

by Dale Lolley
Friday, April 24, 2015

I'm tired of doing mock drafts, even though I will do my final one later this week. So instead, today I'll do a mock eight-selection draft for the Steelers, who have eight picks in the seven-round draft, with the players I think the team will target in each round.

Obviously, availability will have a lot to do with this, otherwise, I'd simply plug in Dante Fowler in the first round, even though there's no way he's there in with the 22nd pick.

Round 1-Kevin Johnson, CB, Wake Forest - I think Johnson will be there for the Steelers and he's a guy who can, at the very least, step right in as the nickel corner. I could also see Byron Jones being the guy. But if Shane Ray's toe injury causes him to fall, he's go a shot as well.

Round 2-Lorenzo Mauldin, OLB, Louisville - Kid who had 16 different sets of foster homes could find a home with the Steelers. Was a productive collegiate pass rusher and is considered a high-character guy. Just what the Steelers need. If they go OLB in the first, then they go corner in the second, with Quentin Rollins, Eric Rowe or Jalen Collins being targets - yes, I think Collins falls that far.

Round 3-Tre McBride, WR, William & Mary - Mike Tomlin bites the bullet and takes a kid from his alma mater. McBride is worth the pick. He's the next in the long line of third-round receivers who make an impact with the Steelers.

Round 4-Senquez Golson, CB, Ole Miss - Golson isn't very big, but all he does is make big plays. The Steelers could use a player like that.

Round 5-Shaquille Mason, G/C, Georgia Tech - Mason is the kind of athlete the Steelers have drafted in recent years on their offensive line. He's a bit undersized, but he can pull and run block well coming from Tech's run-heavy offense.

Round 6 (1)-Wes Saxton, TE, South Alabama - Saxton is a better athlete than a football player right now, but the Steelers have a little time to develop him before Heath Miller hangs up his pads for good. He's a willing blocker and ran a 4.65 40.

Round 6 (2)-Kyle Emmanuel, OLB, North Dakota State - A big-time playmaker at the lower levels, Emmanuel might eventually develop into a valuable backup with starter capabilities. At worst, he's a core special teams player.

Round 7-Corey Crawford, DE, Clemson - At 6-5, 299, he's got ideal size for a 3-4 defensive end. He might never be starter quality, but could be a valuable backup.

Well, there it is. I realize there are no running backs on the list, but there weren't any I wanted to take over the value picks of McBride, Golson, Mason and Saxton in the middle round. Then, you might as well wait and bring in a URFA.

http://nflfromthesidelines.blogspot.com/2015/04/my-ideal-steelers-draft.html

Holy crap...I think he stole my draft!!!

LOL...Maybe not... but they are VERY similar!!

[Mojouw]

Pretty much have to keep drafting WRs. Every 2-3 years they lose an important contributor on offense to FA. Look at what happened to other parts of the roster when they let the talent pipeline go dry. They are still trying to recover at DB, OLB, and TE.

Let's not add WR to the list. AB is going to get paid, but he has 3 more years before he starts getting close to 30. Then they will likely lose one of Bryant and Wheaton to FA after their rookie deals. So you hope Bryant develops into the heir apparent at #1 WR and someone you draft functions as the #2.

[LLT]

Pretty much have to keep drafting WRs. Every 2-3 years they lose an important contributor on offense to FA. Look at what happened to other parts of the roster when they let the talent pipeline go dry. They are still trying to recover at DB, OLB, and TE.

Let's not add WR to the list. AB is going to get paid, but he has 3 more years before he starts getting close to 30. Then they will likely lose one of Bryant and Wheaton to FA after their rookie deals. So you hope Bryant develops into the heir apparent at #1 WR and someone you draft functions as the #2.

that is actually an icredibly insightful point! I personally have us taking WR Tre McBride in the third...but based on visits wouldnt be entirely surprised to see us draft a WR in the 2nd round

[hawaiiansteeler]

Pittsburgh Steelers:

The Steelers will do what they usually do. They'll wait for the best-available players to drop to them. I imagine they'll be able to land someone like Randy Gregory, Shane Ray or Landon Collins at No. 22. That'll allow them to address the cornerback position a bit later.

Ideal 2015 NFL Draft (First Four Rounds):

22. Randy Gregory, DE
56. Alex Carter, CB
87. Rashad Greene, WR
121. Jeremy Langford, RB

http://www.walterfootball.com/draft2015goals_1.php#tr8wmd1qGPDeeXrP.99

[LLT]

Pittsburgh Steelers:

The Steelers will do what they usually do. They'll wait for the best-available players to drop to them. I imagine they'll be able to land someone like Randy Gregory, Shane Ray or Landon Collins at No. 22. That'll allow them to address the cornerback position a bit later.

Ideal 2015 NFL Draft (First Four Rounds):

22. Randy Gregory, DE
56. Alex Carter, CB
87. Rashad Greene, WR
121. Jeremy Langford, RB

http://www.walterfootball.com/draft2015goals_1.php#tr8wmd1qGPDeeXrP.99

I can see a scenerio in which the first three happen...but not a running back in the 4th.

[hawaiiansteeler]

I can see a scenerio in which the first three happen...but not a running back in the 4th.

I think everyone just likes to mock Langford to us because of the Michigan St connection...

[Mojouw]

that is actually an icredibly insightful point! I personally have us taking WR Tre McBride in the third...but based on visits wouldnt be entirely surprised to see us draft a WR in the 2nd round

I've been wondering about them actually pushing the WR pick way down the board. What about someone like Ty Montgomery from Stanford? Can likely get him in the 5-7th. He could push AB off punt returns, provide insulation if Archer doesn't improve on KR. Additionally, he seems to put workout #'s up that are similar to the Steelers preferences at WR in terms of size speed ratios. I realize there are concerns about is hands, but the same could (and was) be said for Bryant, Sanders, Wallace, Washington, etc.

But you are right, some of those pre-draft visits kind of look like a scenario similar to how Sweed got drafted. "Wow! That guy is still on the board? Let's draft him." If that were to happen, hopefully the outcome will be better!

[teegre]

Mostly because of the player. I'm not so much against going OLBer in the first but I would hate taking Gregory. How can you pass on Peters but take Gregory? The only reason that I can see for passing on Peters is because of what happened to him at Washington. For me, the issues with Gregory are worse than Peters. Gregory's lack of bulk and the stupidity of failing a drug test at the combine along with the multiple failed drug tests at Nebraska means that I don't use a 1st round pick to take him.

I also really like Peters and feel that we need to take him if he's available. He's one of the most talented CBs in the draft and I don't see his issues as being that big of a problem. After seeing so many terrible CBs drafted for the past 10 years, I want the most talented guy available.

I guess that you could also say that I've become a bit tired of us constantly using 1st & 2nd round picks on LBers while we continue to ignore the secondary. OLBer is definitely a need but I'd like to see the secondary addressed first as long as it's not a reach.

I posted my response to most of your points, in my post #120.

Re: Peters
He's a risk, but I see him as Randy Moss: a top-five talents who will be aching to prove everyone wrong. Hence, I see Peters working his ass off, in order to show everyone that it was a mistake to pass on him. After that rookie deal is done... well... I might not re-sign him. But, if I can get five years of "top five in the league CB play" at a rookie salary, I'd take it.

- - - Updated - - -


Pretty much have to keep drafting WRs. Every 2-3 years they lose an important contributor on offense to FA. Look at what happened to other parts of the roster when they let the talent pipeline go dry. They are still trying to recover at DB, OLB, and TE.

Let's not add WR to the list. AB is going to get paid, but he has 3 more years before he starts getting close to 30. Then they will likely lose one of Bryant and Wheaton to FA after their rookie deals. So you hope Bryant develops into the heir apparent at #1 WR and someone you draft functions as the #2.

Amen.

The Steelers used to draft an OLB every single year. Every. Single. Year. Then, they were deep... and stopped. Then, the cupboard was bare.

Colbert is on a hot streak (Santonio, Wallace, Sanders, AB, Wheaton, Bryant)... so, I agree: continue to replace the departing FAs with young WRs.

[Mojouw]

I posted my response to most of your points, in my post #120.

Re: Peters
He's a risk, but I see him as Randy Moss: a top-five talents who will be aching to prove everyone wrong. Hence, I see Peters working his ass off, in order to show everyone that it was a mistake to pass on him. After that rookie deal is done... well... I might not re-sign him. But, if I can get five years of "top five in the league CB play" at a rookie salary, I'd take it.

- - - Updated - - -



Amen.

The Steelers used to draft an OLB every single year. Every. Single. Year. Then, they were deep... and stopped. Then, the cupboard was bare.

Colbert is on a hot streak (Santonio, Wallace, Sanders, AB, Wheaton, Bryant)... so, I agree: continue to replace the departing FAs with young WRs.

Trouble is they are on a horrible cold streak in identifying OLB talent. They have been drafting them, they just haven't been working out!

Names like: Adidi, Jackson, Carter (both of them!), Zumwwalt (I know it's early but it doesn't look good), Jones, Thad Gibson, etc.

The really terrifying thing is that is a list of the names they have "missed" on in the last 10 years or so. Here are the hits: Woodley, Worilds, and then you have to skip back 15+ years to Hagans and Porter. Harrison doesn't count for the sake of the draft.

Makes you wonder who has been in charge of identifying and transitioning all of these guys. Oops. That's right. Butler - the new D coordinator. Guess there isn't much hope that it will change.

[teegre]

Trouble is they are on a horrible cold streak in identifying OLB talent. They have been drafting them, they just haven't been working out!

Names like: Adidi, Jackson, Carter (both of them!), Zumwwalt (I know it's early but it doesn't look good), Jones, Thad Gibson, etc.

The really terrifying thing is that is a list of the names they have "missed" on in the last 10 years or so. Here are the hits: Woodley, Worilds, and then you have to skip back 15+ years to Hagans and Porter. Harrison doesn't count for the sake of the draft.

Makes you wonder who has been in charge of identifying and transitioning all of these guys. Oops. That's right. Butler - the new D coordinator. Guess there isn't much hope that it will change.

I do believe that part of the problem is the fact that so many teams run the 3-4 now. Fifteen years ago, it was basically just the Steelers running the 3-4; now, nearly half the league does. Fifteen years ago, Joey Porter lasted until R3, because no one else was really drafting that type of player; today, since so many teams run the 3-4, Porter would go in the top 15.

Likewise, OLBs that used to go in R3 or R4, and now being drafted in R1... and, most of them are very average. So, if you want an "elite" 3-4 OLB, you really need to have a top 15 pick. In 2001, Dante Fowler would have been there at 22; this year, he's going to possibly go second overall.

[LLT]

I do believe that part of the problem is the fact that so many teams run the 3-4 now. Fifteen years ago, it was basically just the Steelers running the 3-4; now, nearly half the league does. Fifteen years ago, Joey Porter lasted until R3, because no one else was really drafting that type of player; today, since so many teams run the 3-4, Porter would go in the top 15.

Likewise, OLBs that used to go in R3 or R4, and now being drafted in R1... and, most of them are very average. So, if you want an "elite" 3-4 OLB, you really need to have a top 15 pick. In 2001, Dante Fowler would have been there at 22; this year, he's going to possibly go second overall.

This is true...and add in the simple fact that the 3-4 OLB position is evolving. With the league rules benefiting the offensive passing game...OLB's are now going to have to be faster and will have to drop into coverage more often then the traditional OLB's of 15 years ago.

[teegre]

This is true...and add in the simple fact that the 3-4 OLB position is evolving. With the league rules benefiting the offensive passing game...OLB's are now going to have to be faster and will have to drop into coverage more often then the traditional OLB's of 15 years ago.

Spot on.

The OLB in 2001 was a run-stuffer... who could sometimes rush the passer & play some coverage.

An OLB today has to be a pass-rusher & a coverage guy... who can sometimes stuff the run.

[LLT]

Spot on.

The OLB in 2001 was a run-stuffer... who could sometimes rush the passer & play some coverage.

An OLB today has to be a pass-rusher & a coverage guy... who can sometimes stuff the run.

I think our front office sees the future ...but its still hard to "pinpoint" the right kind of player. Shazier is the future of the ILB position....I think Vic Beasley, Dante Fowler, and Davis Tull are the future at OLB. Those guys all fall into a small window of talent. Big enough and aggressive enough to play traditionally but athletic enough to drop into coverage.

Jarvis Jones is athletic...but lacks the strength to play the position properly. If you are going to err...then that's the way to do it. You can always build strength and that's my hope this next year...that Jones has been working out and also developing his technique.

I think the days of 3-4 OLBers who run in the 4.8 to 4.9 range...and who are not quick twitch, is over...with the exception of defensive schemes that funnel plays their way.

[Mojouw]

Good points about the draft positions and the change in the nature/role of the position. I do get all that. The bottom line is that other teams are finding guys that can play these new roles -- and they are not all top 12 picks. Some of the truly elite ones are, but others are not. The Steelers have made a dedicated effort to draft Olb and DE conversion projects relatively consistently and they have failed fairly severely.

Bruce Carter and Chris Carter were both supposed to possess a lethal, lightening quick first step and the explosion necessary to make plays behind the line of scrimmage. They failed to ever develop that first step off the bench. In the last 10 years the only OLBs they have drafted and developed with any degree of success are Woodley and Worilds. That is it. Harrison fell into their laps -- twice!

THe troubling thing is that for much of that period Butler has been the LB position coach. So unless he was having a ton of ideas that were being shot down by Lebeau/Tomlin/Colbert, how I am supposed to believe that suddenly this team is going to get better at drafting and developing edge rushing OLBs? I realize that Jarvis Jones has been hurt and that stunted his development, but what if he simply isn't any better this season? How much of that is the player and how much is the system? Did Jason Worilds get better year to year? Not really -- he got more experienced and therefore played a bit faster, but he still seemed like the one pass rush trick pony he was his rookie year.

What I am wondering is how much of that is player? How much is the system (is/was it simply too damn complicated -- other teams run complex schemes that feature rookies in significant roles)? An inability or unwillingness to adapt to the talent at hand? A combination of those factors?

[LLT]

Good points about the draft positions and the change in the nature/role of the position. I do get all that. The bottom line is that other teams are finding guys that can play these new roles -- and they are not all top 12 picks. Some of the truly elite ones are, but others are not. The Steelers have made a dedicated effort to draft Olb and DE conversion projects relatively consistently and they have failed fairly severely.

Bruce Carter and Chris Carter were both supposed to possess a lethal, lightening quick first step and the explosion necessary to make plays behind the line of scrimmage. They failed to ever develop that first step off the bench. In the last 10 years the only OLBs they have drafted and developed with any degree of success are Woodley and Worilds. That is it. Harrison fell into their laps -- twice!

THe troubling thing is that for much of that period Butler has been the LB position coach. So unless he was having a ton of ideas that were being shot down by Lebeau/Tomlin/Colbert, how I am supposed to believe that suddenly this team is going to get better at drafting and developing edge rushing OLBs? I realize that Jarvis Jones has been hurt and that stunted his development, but what if he simply isn't any better this season? How much of that is the player and how much is the system? Did Jason Worilds get better year to year? Not really -- he got more experienced and therefore played a bit faster, but he still seemed like the one pass rush trick pony he was his rookie year.

What I am wondering is how much of that is player? How much is the system (is/was it simply too damn complicated -- other teams run complex schemes that feature rookies in significant roles)? An inability or unwillingness to adapt to the talent at hand? A combination of those factors?

I think other teams are struggling also with finding "that" guy. Perhaps because we follow the Steelers its just that so more apparent to us.

Outside of OLB's like Brian Orakpo...Tamba Hali... Justin Houston... and Robert Mathis I don't know of very many OLB's that are well rounded enough to be great pass rushers and very good in coverage.

[hawaiiansteeler]

I think the days of 3-4 OLBers who run in the 4.8 to 4.9 range...and who are not quick twitch, is over...

you mean like Jarvis Jones? :chuckle:

and Hau'oli Kikaha, who ran a 4.93? :coffee:

[hawaiiansteeler]

while that can be a valid point if that is what your scheme dictates , however when you draft a guy with 4.3 speed at ILB he should then but your default cover linebacker kind of obsoleting the need for your pass rushers to drop into coverage as much

sounds like a very predictable scheme...

[LLT]

while that can be a valid point if that is what your scheme dictates , however when you draft a guy with 4.3 speed at ILB he should then but your default cover linebacker kind of obsoleting the need for your pass rushers to drop into coverage as much

That would only be true if the ILB's never blitz while the OLB's drop into coverage. And that is not true....never has been.

[LLT]

sounds like a very predictable scheme...

That's because its incorrect and simplistic.

[Mojouw]

I think other teams are struggling also with finding "that" guy. Perhaps because we follow the Steelers its just that so more apparent to us.

Outside of OLB's like Brian Orakpo...Tamba Hali... Justin Houston... and Robert Mathis I don't know of very many OLB's that are well rounded enough to be great pass rushers and very good in coverage.

I could care less what they do in coverage. I'm just talking about 1. getting on the field and actually playing before being cut and 2. being able to generate some pass rush pressure when that opportunity happens. Other teams seem to have less of problem identifying and developing those players. Players such as Houston, Barwin, Dumerville, Avril, Irvin, Aldon Smith, Kruger, Upshaw, whatever the two young guys names are in New England, etc. At least these guys get drafted, play, and have an impact -- even if in a specialized role.

The Steelers record is to lately draft guys, have them not play, and make zero impact. Not good.

[LLT]

I could care less what they do in coverage. I'm just talking about 1. getting on the field and actually playing before being cut and 2. being able to generate some pass rush pressure when that opportunity happens. Other teams seem to have less of problem identifying and developing those players. Players such as Houston, Barwin, Dumerville, Avril, Irvin, Aldon Smith, Kruger, Upshaw, whatever the two young guys names are in New England, etc. At least these guys get drafted, play, and have an impact -- even if in a specialized role.

The Steelers record is to lately draft guys, have them not play, and make zero impact. Not good.

Well...Jarvis is till an unknown due to injuries...and Moats IS that guy. realistically...give me Hunter or Tull as a backup with Harrison...and Im REAL excited,

[Born2Steel]

This season will most likely decide JJ's fate. If he continues to not produce, either due to injury or skills, we will pretty much know that he gets replaced. Year 3 is time to step up. We really need James to be healthy for this entire season. His production, when it does come, is always at the perfect time. I like what Moats brought, let's see him improve in year 2. I don't know why but I am pulling hard for HoJo to make this year's 53. If we can get 1 quality OLB in this draft, any round, we can be very good at that position going into the playoffs. JJ, Harrison, Moats, HoJo, maybe Zumwalt, these FAs I know nothing about, and 1 good draft pick.Gotta stay positive the FO knows what they're doing.

On the back end, we could use safeties, absolutely must have corners, set at ILB(barring injury rash). I think we should get at least 2, if not 3 CBs from this draft. They are more valuable to us right now than maybe they show on the 'big boards'. I know Landon Collins is the top SS on everyone's board, but how does the SU rank him, for us of course.

Offensively, there are some interesting WR and RB prospects, lots of OL upgrades and depth, and more than a few TEs that have me interested. Not necessarily to replace Heath, but to add quality depth at the position to eventually replace both our current starting TEs. AB, Bryant, Wheaton, and? Just one more to allow us the threat of being able to go 4 wide with authority.

So there's my wish list. 1 quality OLB, 2 CBs, 2TEs, and 1WR. That leaves 2 picks....safety? NT? OL? RB?

GO STEELERS!

[LLT]

This season will most likely decide JJ's fate. If he continues to not produce, either due to injury or skills, we will pretty much know that he gets replaced. Year 3 is time to step up. We really need James to be healthy for this entire season. His production, when it does come, is always at the perfect time. I like what Moats brought, let's see him improve in year 2. I don't know why but I am pulling hard for HoJo to make this year's 53. If we can get 1 quality OLB in this draft, any round, we can be very good at that position going into the playoffs. JJ, Harrison, Moats, HoJo, maybe Zumwalt, these FAs I know nothing about, and 1 good draft pick.Gotta stay positive the FO knows what they're doing.

On the back end, we could use safeties, absolutely must have corners, set at ILB(barring injury rash). I think we should get at least 2, if not 3 CBs from this draft. They are more valuable to us right now than maybe they show on the 'big boards'. I know Landon Collins is the top SS on everyone's board, but how does the SU rank him, for us of course.

Offensively, there are some interesting WR and RB prospects, lots of OL upgrades and depth, and more than a few TEs that have me interested. Not necessarily to replace Heath, but to add quality depth at the position to eventually replace both our current starting TEs. AB, Bryant, Wheaton, and? Just one more to allow us the threat of being able to go 4 wide with authority.

So there's my wish list. 1 quality OLB, 2 CBs, 2TEs, and 1WR. That leaves 2 picks....safety? NT? OL? RB?

GO STEELERS!

Two things that make me think we might go WR early...1. its a passing league 2) The draft ranking of those WR's that we brought in. Im thinking 2nd or 3rd round now even though I wish we could wait until at least the 4th.

[Mojouw]

Well...Jarvis is till an unknown due to injuries...and Moats IS that guy. realistically...give me Hunter or Tull as a backup with Harrison...and Im REAL excited,

You are way more optimistic than me. I think Jones is a known and that known is that he can not rush the passer effectively in the NFL. Moats won't look as good going against LT (can't play Jones there) and anything that Harrison gives you is a bonus that at his age can not be counted own.

I am most excited about Howard Jones. But they need to draft an OLB in this draft - doesn't matter what round -- and absolutely hit a home run with it. W/out that they will be chasing production at the position for years -- kinda like CB!

[LLT]

You are way more optimistic than me. I think Jones is a known and that known is that he can not rush the passer effectively in the NFL. Moats won't look as good going against LT (can't play Jones there) and anything that Harrison gives you is a bonus that at his age can not be counted own.

I am most excited about Howard Jones. But they need to draft an OLB in this draft - doesn't matter what round -- and absolutely hit a home run with it. W/out that they will be chasing production at the position for years -- kinda like CB!

You could be right...but I like what I saw in limited duty last year with both Jones and Moats. I think Moats has , at least, functional strength to take the left side and he brings an arsenal of moves to disengage from blockers. The wild card is... and seems to have always been... Jones inability or unwillingness to bulk up. That is the FIRST thing I am going to be looking for when they get to camp.

Im excited about Jones also...glad to see someone else is too. He flashed potential last year and a year of studying the defense isn't going to hurt.

[Steeldude]

You could be right...but I like what I saw in limited duty last year with both Jones and Moats. I think Moats has , at least, functional strength to take the left side and he brings an arsenal of moves to disengage from blockers. The wild card is... and seems to have always been... Jones inability or unwillingness to bulk up. That is the FIRST thing I am going to be looking for when they get to camp.

Im excited about Jones also...glad to see someone else is too. He flashed potential last year and a year of studying the defense isn't going to hurt.

The left side is easier than the right. Isn't Moats pretty much penciled in as the LOLB?

I am hoping Jarvis Jones can at least spell Harrison when the Steelers play weaker opponents. The Steelers will need a fresh Harrison toward the end of the season.

[LLT]

The left side is easier than the right. Isn't Moats pretty much penciled in as the LOLB?

I am hoping Jarvis Jones can at least spell Harrison when the Steelers play weaker opponents. The Steelers will need a fresh Harrison toward the end of the season.

Yes..he will be the LOLB...when I said "take" the left side...I meant take on the responsibilities of the left side. My bad, I can see that it wasn't clear.

[teegre]

Good points about the draft positions and the change in the nature/role of the position. I do get all that. The bottom line is that other teams are finding guys that can play these new roles -- and they are not all top 12 picks. Some of the truly elite ones are, but others are not. The Steelers have made a dedicated effort to draft Olb and DE conversion projects relatively consistently and they have failed fairly severely.

Bruce Carter and Chris Carter were both supposed to possess a lethal, lightening quick first step and the explosion necessary to make plays behind the line of scrimmage. They failed to ever develop that first step off the bench. In the last 10 years the only OLBs they have drafted and developed with any degree of success are Woodley and Worilds. That is it. Harrison fell into their laps -- twice!

THe troubling thing is that for much of that period Butler has been the LB position coach. So unless he was having a ton of ideas that were being shot down by Lebeau/Tomlin/Colbert, how I am supposed to believe that suddenly this team is going to get better at drafting and developing edge rushing OLBs? I realize that Jarvis Jones has been hurt and that stunted his development, but what if he simply isn't any better this season? How much of that is the player and how much is the system? Did Jason Worilds get better year to year? Not really -- he got more experienced and therefore played a bit faster, but he still seemed like the one pass rush trick pony he was his rookie year.

What I am wondering is how much of that is player? How much is the system (is/was it simply too damn complicated -- other teams run complex schemes that feature rookies in significant roles)? An inability or unwillingness to adapt to the talent at hand? A combination of those factors?

I agree that the Steelers have not made this a priority. For a decade, they've drafted one OLB per year, but only Jones & Worilds were early picks.

As as far as other teams finding elite OLBs, I'm not really sure how many elite OLBs there are. Every year, there are about 20 of them drafted... times ten years... making 200 OLBs. Of those, there are only about seven that are elite. Some are top ten picks, but others are simply teams getting lucky (Elvis Dumerville, James Harrison).

SUMMATION:
I'mnot sure what the problem is...

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I think other teams are struggling also with finding "that" guy. Perhaps because we follow the Steelers its just that so more apparent to us.

Outside of OLB's like Brian Orakpo...Tamba Hali... Justin Houston... and Robert Mathis I don't know of very many OLB's that are well rounded enough to be great pass rushers and very good in coverage.

Spot on.

[Mojouw]

http://deadspin.com/something-weird-is-going-on-with-randy-gregory-1701010088

So, if Gregory does have a mental health issue, where does that put his draft stock? I know that seems cold and mean-spirited to ask, but I am attempting to separate a young person's health from the draft process.

Personally, I think this wouldn't be a big deal to me as an NFL GM, but I already believe that NFL teams take foolish risks in treating their players as football playing robots and offering them no help/hand up in almost any other aspects of their lives. If I ran a team I would have an arsenal of doctors, financial advisors, educational counselors, business advisors, etc to help my extremely valuable employees make good decisions.

[teegre]

If I ran a team I would have an arsenal of doctors, financial advisors, educational counselors, business advisors, etc to help my extremely valuable employees make good decisions.

I agree 100%.

Alas, the Steelers got all sorts of help for Limas Sweed, but ultimately, Sweed's depression ended his career.

[Mojouw]

I agree 100%.

Alas, the Steelers got all sorts of help for Limas Sweed, but ultimately, Sweed's depression ended his career.

Is that what the ultimate story was? I honestly didn't ever hear much about why he couldn't seem to marry his potential to performance.

Wonder if that makes them more or less likely to go down that road again?

[teegre]

Is that what the ultimate story was? I honestly didn't ever hear much about why he couldn't seem to marry his potential to performance.

Wonder if that makes them more or less likely to go down that road again?

Alas, Sweed lost his confidence, after dropping that pass in the AFCCG. That was simply the final straw... which unleashed the depression that had been building.

Most at teams would have cut Sweed, but the Rooneys paid for an entire year of counseling... and patiently waited. Sweed never recovered (and was let go).

Good question.
Gregory: no.
Peters: yes... because, his issues are more egomania (which appears to be better now).

[zulater]

Kikaha ran a very slow 40 time and has medical concerns that have reportedly caused some teams to take him off their board altogether.

he goes nowhere near Round 1...

44 isn't that far from the first round. I would have to say Dwins assessment turned out to be a closer approximation of Kikaha's draft value than yours. I know you guys never made the bet, but props are due nonetheless, and I'm here to give them. Cheers Paul! :drink:

[hawaiiansteeler]

44 isn't that far from the first round. I would have to say Dwins assessment turned out to be a closer approximation of Kikaha's draft value than yours. I know you guys never made the bet, but props are due nonetheless, and I'm here to give them. Cheers Paul! :drink:

my main point was that Kikaha would not go in the late first round as Dwins said he might.

and he didn't.

having said that, he should have put his $ where his big mouth is and he could have won the bet.

but he didn't...

[zulater]

my main point was that Kikaha would not go in the late first round as Dwins said he might.

and he didn't.
"
having said that, he should have put his $ where his big mouth is and he could have won the bet.

but he didn't...

And I quote...."he goes nowhere near Round 1" Does that appear accurate today? Regardless of whether a bet was made or not was his assessment of Kikuha's draft status pretty much on target?

Just recognizing it.


Look it's none of my business why he can no longer post here, but there was a dispute that was easily proven one way or the other by the results of the draft and I thought it was worth noting.
So I did. No offense. But the man proved pretty much on spot and that's all I said. ...

[hawaiiansteeler]

SMH , wondering what Big Boards some of you are looking at ...

Marcus Golden in the 3rd ( I used to think so ) but not so much now , he may not go to late round 4 or even 5 he lacks athletic prowess and his game really does not transfer much better to the NFL as his former team mate whos name will go unspoken because the camera crews will soon follow if it is .... ( heres cake in the face ) not at the poster but a hint to the players identity ...

its easy to toss names around but its a ton more difficult to line them up where they should be ....



ummm, Markus Golden was just selected in Round 2...

[teegre]

my main point was that Kikaha would not go in the late first round as Dwins said he might.

and he didn't.

having said that, he should have put his $ where his big mouth is and he could have won the bet.

but he didn't...

You just got angry chaired!!! :rofl2:

[hawaiiansteeler]

You just got angry chaired!!! :rofl2:

isn't there supposed to be a 3 year waiting period? :chuckle:

[zulater]

ummm, Markus Golden was just selected in Round 2...



Nice deflection. :yawn: You still whiffed on the other guy.

[hawaiiansteeler]

Nice deflection. :yawn: You still whiffed on the other guy.

let me check again, did Kikaha get drafted in the first round?

[Jaucer]

let me check again, did Kikaha get drafted in the first round?

Here is the point. If a guy is projected as a mid 2nd round guy then to predict him to go in the 1st or early 2nd is a bolder bet than to say he will go in the late 2nd or 3rd. It is not an even bet. The curve is skewed to the later rounds. For example a mid 2nd round grade drafted in the 1st is a reach but a mid 2nd round grade drafted in the 3rd is a steal. You never gave a fair bet. You should have gave 2-1 odds if not more....

[teegre]

Here is the point. If a guy is projected as a mid 2nd round guy then to predict him to go in the 1st or early 2nd is a bolder bet than to say he will go in the late 2nd or 3rd. It is not an even bet. The curve is skewed to the later rounds. For example a mid 2nd round grade drafted in the 1st is a reach but a mid 2nd round grade drafted in the 3rd is a steal. You never gave a fair bet. You should have gave 2-1 odds if not more....

Dwins was calling people out.

Dwins was wrong about Kikaha going in R1... and wrong about Markus Gilden going in R5.

Since he started the derision, he should have backed up his assertion. Nope, he hid behind semantics.

/debate

Everyone needs to move on.

[stillers4me]

Exactly.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

[hawaiiansteeler]

Here is the point. If a guy is projected as a mid 2nd round guy then to predict him to go in the 1st or early 2nd is a bolder bet than to say he will go in the late 2nd or 3rd. It is not an even bet. The curve is skewed to the later rounds. For example a mid 2nd round grade drafted in the 1st is a reach but a mid 2nd round grade drafted in the 3rd is a steal. You never gave a fair bet. You should have gave 2-1 odds if not more....


see post #109, you don't think that was a fair bet that I offered? and it was a wash as it turned out...

"how about I give you $50 if Kikaha gets drafted in Round 1 and you give me $50 if he gets drafted in Round 3 or later with it being a wash if he gets drafted in Round 2?"

[Jaucer]

see post #109, you don't think that was a fair bet that I offered? and it was a wash as it turned out...

"how about I give you $50 if Kikaha gets drafted in Round 1 and you give me $50 if he gets drafted in Round 3 or later with it being a wash if he gets drafted in Round 2?"

You obviously don't get the point. It's a skewed curve the closer a single ended point the higher the risk. Let me put it this way as an example. I'll bet you $100 you can throw an axe from 30 yards and hit a 6 inch wide target. If you do then I win, if you don't then I loose. You have to be very accurate to hit it for me to win but you could miss by a mile and still win. That is the bet you proposed. It's not a 1 for 1 proposition. There are diminishing returns.

[teegre]

You obviously don't get the point. It's a skewed curve the closer a single ended point the higher the risk. Let me put it this way as an example. I'll bet you $100 you can throw an axe from 30 yards and hit a 6 inch wide target. If you do then I win, if you don't then I loose. You have to be very accurate to hit it for me to win but you could miss by a mile and still win. That is the bet you proposed. It's not a 1 for 1 proposition. There are diminishing returns.

Then you probably shouldn't brag that you can throw an axe from 30 yards and hit a 6 inch target...

[Jaucer]

Then you probably shouldn't brag that you can throw an axe from 30 yards and hit a 6 inch target...
And my point is that Dwins didn't either. He said he would take all of round 2 He didn't claim he was 100% certain it would be round 1. That is why he wanted all of round 2. In the analogy that would be like saying I'll make it 7 inches. So 7 inches vs the whole world should have been a no brainer but who wouldn't budge??? Who bragged he new for sure it would be round 1? That is an easier brag to make.

In the end I could care less. Just trying to point out who would of been taking the bigger risk on the proposed bet.

[teegre]

And my point is that Dwins didn't either.

Come on, man.

He he derailed the thread by talking trash about other posters. When he got called out on it, he played the semantics game.

Let's. Move. On.

[katmandu]

WHEN IS THE NEXT PICK DUE ??

[teegre]

WHEN IS THE NEXT PICK DUE ??

121

http://www.steelers.com/news/article-1/Steelers-2015-NFL-Draft-Order/7a9a10b2-2abe-4564-b697-1adf93a9015d

[Lady Steel]

You just got angry chaired!!! :rofl2:



http://www.snappypixels.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/oh-no-you-didnt-1.jpg


Oh no you didn't! :rofl2: