almost have myself convinced we will NOT draft a CB in rd 1

[Dwinsgames]

looking at my grades and all the prospects I believe we draft DE/OLB in the first round , all the good pass rushers have improved their stock moving closer to the draft and likely will be gone come round 2 , whereas in round 2there will still be a couple pretty good corners still on the board ...

smart money goes that way with OLB then CB otherwise you end up with a slightly better CB prospect and without a rush OLB ....

if you need both you better have a plan that will get you both or you will wind up not much better than you started the process

[stillers4me]

Of course we won't, Paul! You know that do that stuff on purpose to drive us fans completely bonkers on draft day. :lol:

[ALLD]

OLB #1 and CBs in #2 & #4. Question is what in round #3?

[polamalubeast]

OLB #1 and CBs in #2 & #4. Question is what in round #3?

Safety

[SteelerFanInStl]

I'm almost positive that we'll draft an OLBer in round 1 and then wait until the 5th round to draft a CB.

[st33lersguy]

I'm almost positive that we'll draft an OLBer in round 1 and then wait until the 5th round to draft a CB.

Agree

[Count Steeler]

OLB #1 and CBs in #2 & #4. Question is what in round #3?

Dri Archer 2.0.

[one side only]

Round 3? Jesse James, Tight End, Penn State.

[Steelman]

Tomlin probably fell in love with Bud Dupree at his pro day. Maybe PJ Williams in the 2nd? His stock may have dropped a bit. A safety, TE or OT in the 3rd. Doss in the 4th.

[st33lersguy]

Tomlin probably fell in love with Bud Dupree at his pro day. Maybe PJ Williams in the 2nd? His stock may have dropped a bit. A safety, TE or OT in the 3rd. Doss in the 4th.

I know Joey Porter was at his pro day. Anyone know what he thought of him?

[Steelman]

I know Joey Porter was at his pro day. Anyone know what he thought of him?

Brief Google search didn't turn up anything aside from his attendance, but liked this comment on BTSC:


Doesn't anybody else just love the fact that Porter is getting in on these scouting trips? The guy has a finely tuned bullshit detector and he knows what to look for in a "Steeler". If I’m Colbert and Porter told me a guy was soft, he’d be immediately off my draft board.

:thumbsup:

[LLT]

I'm going to wait until closer to the draft to totally believe we don't go CB. Not only based on what we do (or don't do), but based on what the teams ahead of us do.

[Steeltreal]

You never know, the Second Round prospect can be a day 1 Starter and the First Rd Pick could come off the bench. Doesn't prove the Process failed.

[st33lersguy]

Brief Google search didn't turn up anything aside from his attendance, but liked this comment on BTSC:



:thumbsup:

Saw that same quote which is why I was interested in Porter's opinion. I am so glad that Porter is making these visits and hope his opinion will contribute in deciding which OLB the Steelers take

[Steelerette]

I can agree with 1 OLB, 2 CB, 4 CB. As for 3, I'm not impressed with this year's TE crop... it's a good year to squeeze one mmore year out of Heath and Spaeth, and see what we get out of Blanchflower, and hope next year's TE crop shapes up better.

I don't think we go another Dri Archer type either, and now that we have DeAngelo signed there's too much late RB talent going to be available to waste a 3 on that. I'm thinking offensive line unless a real crazy value falls into our lap.

[Mojouw]

Tomlin probably fell in love with Bud Dupree at his pro day. Maybe PJ Williams in the 2nd? His stock may have dropped a bit. A safety, TE or OT in the 3rd. Doss in the 4th.

What about what's his name out of Miami, Q something Rollins or whatnot? Supposedly raw but talented. Would fit a pattern (Ike and Cortez). Could be had in the second - according to some.

Maybe Dupree in the first and this guy as a DB in the second?

[jpele]

i really don't see a CB that would have value with the 22nd pick. Now , if the Steelers target OLB is gone when the pick they usually take the BPA and there's a good chance that could Brandon Scherff of Iowa. I know we need defense but Scherff would be tough to pass on. Think Sherff, Pouncey and DeCastro.

My first post so go easy on me.

[Dwinsgames]

What about what's his name out of Miami, Q something Rollins or whatnot? Supposedly raw but talented. Would fit a pattern (Ike and Cortez). Could be had in the second - according to some.

Maybe Dupree in the first and this guy as a DB in the second?

Rollins is a super talented athlete , but he is very raw , I get the Ike , Cortez raw comparison but they where not second round picks either ... Rollins only started 10 games in college that is a degree of rawness that is tough to swallow at the tune of a second round pick ( but I highly doubt he makes it to us the way many are rating him if anyone in the NFL agrees he will be gone end of round 1 early round 2 )

PJ Williams on many boards is rising even with the rather poor showing at the combine , getting more respect now than 6 weeks ago ( go figure )

for me I would go ...

1) OLB ..Kikaha , Orchard , Odighizuwa ,
2) CB ...Carter , Nelson , Darby
3) FS... Holliman , Drummond , Shaw
4) CB....Doss , Gaines , Glenn , or the SS Campbell or go O-Line with someone like Gallik if still there or even the Tackle Hickey


but since Colbert usually does not listen to my point of view expect a first round inside Linebacker . second round tackle , third round TE , and 4th round WR

- - - Updated - - -


i really don't see a CB that would have value with the 22nd pick. Now , if the Steelers target OLB is gone when the pick they usually take the BPA and there's a good chance that could Brandon Scherff of Iowa. I know we need defense but Scherff would be tough to pass on. Think Sherff, Pouncey and DeCastro.

My first post so go easy on me.


welcome !

would be hard to complain with that pick albeit far more dire needs but that could get Foster into top backup role instantly by moving the quick footed all pro potential guard we have playing LT ( beachum ) now to his more natural spot ....

I wouldn't be happy but I would find it hard to complain to loudly

[one side only]

I agree the Steelers might take Scherff if available at 22, but many of the draft profiles I've read say he may be better suited at guard.

[Steelerette]

Scherff will be a guard, but can he pull? If we're being honest if the plan is to give Ben an o-line unlike he's ever had to ride out the remainder of his career I can live with that.

[Dwinsgames]

I am not convinced he will be a Guard , fact is ( many do not talk much about it ) he played the entire year with a leg injury slowing his movement ability ...

with a full off season that will recover and his movement will be adequate to be at tackle ...

Remember Beachum was slated as a Guard too

[Texasteel]

for me I would go ...

1) OLB ..Kikaha , Orchard , Odighizuwa ,
2) CB ...Carter , Nelson , Darby
3) FS... Holliman , Drummond , Shaw
4) CB....Doss , Gaines , Glenn , or the SS Campbell or go O-Line with someone like Gallik if still there or even the Tackle Hickey




Like the names bud, and all seem to be doable. I'm just getting a feeling that the name Eli Harold may be being kicked around some.

[Texasteel]

Used the list Dwins posted . Man these guys hate Doss. Underrate Drummond as well.

Round 1 Pick 22: Owamagbe Odighizuwa (http://www.google.com/search?q=Owamagbe+Odighizuwa+Draft+Profile&btnI&as_sitesearch=nfl.com), DE, UCLA (B+)
Round 2 Pick 24: Steven Nelson (http://www.google.com/search?q=Steven+Nelson+Draft+Profile&btnI&as_sitesearch=nfl.com), CB, Oregon State (B)
Round 3 Pick 23: Kurtis Drummond (http://www.google.com/search?q=Kurtis+Drummond+Draft+Profile&btnI&as_sitesearch=nfl.com), FS, Michigan State (C)
Round 4 Pick 22: Lorenzo Doss (http://www.google.com/search?q=Lorenzo+Doss+Draft+Profile&btnI&as_sitesearch=nfl.com), CB, Tulane (D)
Round 5 Pick 24: Jeff Heuerman (http://www.google.com/search?q=Jeff+Heuerman+Draft+Profile&btnI&as_sitesearch=nfl.com), TE, Ohio State (A)
Round 6 Pick 23: Chris Conley (http://www.google.com/search?q=Chris+Conley+Draft+Profile&btnI&as_sitesearch=nfl.com), WR, Georgia (A)
Round 7 Pick 22: Kyle Loomis (http://www.google.com/search?q=Kyle+Loomis+Draft+Profile&btnI&as_sitesearch=nfl.com), P, Portland State (A)

[Dwinsgames]

Used the list Dwins posted . Man these guys hate Doss. Underrate Drummond as well.

Round 1 Pick 22: Owamagbe Odighizuwa (http://www.google.com/search?q=Owamagbe+Odighizuwa+Draft+Profile&btnI&as_sitesearch=nfl.com), DE, UCLA (B+)
Round 2 Pick 24: Steven Nelson (http://www.google.com/search?q=Steven+Nelson+Draft+Profile&btnI&as_sitesearch=nfl.com), CB, Oregon State (B)
Round 3 Pick 23: Kurtis Drummond (http://www.google.com/search?q=Kurtis+Drummond+Draft+Profile&btnI&as_sitesearch=nfl.com), FS, Michigan State (C)
Round 4 Pick 22: Lorenzo Doss (http://www.google.com/search?q=Lorenzo+Doss+Draft+Profile&btnI&as_sitesearch=nfl.com), CB, Tulane (D)
Round 5 Pick 24: Jeff Heuerman (http://www.google.com/search?q=Jeff+Heuerman+Draft+Profile&btnI&as_sitesearch=nfl.com), TE, Ohio State (A)
Round 6 Pick 23: Chris Conley (http://www.google.com/search?q=Chris+Conley+Draft+Profile&btnI&as_sitesearch=nfl.com), WR, Georgia (A)
Round 7 Pick 22: Kyle Loomis (http://www.google.com/search?q=Kyle+Loomis+Draft+Profile&btnI&as_sitesearch=nfl.com), P, Portland State (A)

speaking of Drummond , waiting on his interview to be returned as we speak

[one side only]

I am not convinced he will be a Guard , fact is ( many do not talk much about it ) he played the entire year with a leg injury slowing his movement ability ...

with a full off season that will recover and his movement will be adequate to be at tackle ...

Remember Beachum was slated as a Guard too

The comparison to Beachum the draft prospect is a little apples and oranges. Beachum wasn't thought of as much of anything coming out of SMU, while Scherff projects as a consensus first round pick. Beachum was thought of as more quick than powerful, and many doubted his ability to run block from the guard position. Beachum has developed into an adequate left tackle. I think there would be very little chance that Scherff would start at LT. He would have a much better chance to supplant Ramon Foster.

From NFL.com . . . http://www.nfl.com/draft/2015/profiles/brandon-scherff?id=2552353 Bottom Line

Like former Hawkeye Riley Reiff, Scherff has measurables and traits to play tackle in the league but might be better suited to play guard. More powerful than explosive, Reiff is not a scheme-specific talent and can maul or move in run game. Road-grader with pancake-man potential, but has holes in his pass protection that will be exposed on the next level -- especially at tackle.


From CBS Sports . . . http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/players/1737625/brandon-scherff

Scherff is athletic enough to remain outside at tackle but his build and physicality could be even more effective inside at guard.

Walter Football has him listed as a Guard. http://walterfootball.com/scoutingreport2015bscherff.php

At the next level, Scherff could be one of the top guards in the league. Moving to the inside would hide his issues with speed rushers as well as his lack of length and short arms; all while making him a better pass-blocker.

From NESN in Boston . . .
http://nesn.com/2015/02/patriots-combine-day-2-interviews-include-top-o-lineman-brandon-scherff/
The Patriots had a formal interview with Iowa offensive lineman Brandon Scherff, who played left tackle with the Hawkeyes but might project better in the NFL at guard, where New England has a major need.

Every profile I've read says pretty much the same thing; he's a "roadgrader" in run blocking, but has trouble with speed rushers.

[Dwinsgames]

The comparison to Beachum the draft prospect is a little apples and oranges. Beachum wasn't thought of as much of anything coming out of SMU, while Scherff projects as a consensus first round pick. Beachum was thought of as more quick than powerful, and many doubted his ability to run block from the guard position. Beachum has developed into an adequate left tackle. I think there would be very little chance that Scherff would start at LT. He would have a much better chance to supplant Ramon Foster.

From NFL.com . . . http://www.nfl.com/draft/2015/profiles/brandon-scherff?id=2552353 Bottom Line

Like former Hawkeye Riley Reiff, Scherff has measurables and traits to play tackle in the league but might be better suited to play guard. More powerful than explosive, Reiff is not a scheme-specific talent and can maul or move in run game. Road-grader with pancake-man potential, but has holes in his pass protection that will be exposed on the next level -- especially at tackle.


From CBS Sports . . . http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/players/1737625/brandon-scherff

Scherff is athletic enough to remain outside at tackle but his build and physicality could be even more effective inside at guard.

Walter Football has him listed as a Guard. http://walterfootball.com/scoutingreport2015bscherff.php

At the next level, Scherff could be one of the top guards in the league. Moving to the inside would hide his issues with speed rushers as well as his lack of length and short arms; all while making him a better pass-blocker.

From NESN in Boston . . .
http://nesn.com/2015/02/patriots-combine-day-2-interviews-include-top-o-lineman-brandon-scherff/
The Patriots had a formal interview with Iowa offensive lineman Brandon Scherff, who played left tackle with the Hawkeyes but might project better in the NFL at guard, where New England has a major need.

Every profile I've read says pretty much the same thing; he's a "roadgrader" in run blocking, but has trouble with speed rushers.


never been much for taking other peoples opinion over my own eyes , but I will play along ...


02/17/2015 - 2015 DRAFT SCOUT PRE-COMBINE TOP 64 DRAFT PROSPECTS: 6/1. Brandon Scherff, OT, Iowa, 6-5, 320, 4.93, 1...The only thing scouts agree about on Scherff is that he is the most NFL-ready offensive lineman in the draft. The debate is whether he should use his broad-shoulders and toughness at guard, where he played as a freshman, or show his excellent technique at tackle, where he lined up on the left side the rest of his college career and was named consensus All-American and earned the Outland Trophy last season as the best college lineman. Those who believe he belongs inside are probably concerned that he doesn't have quick footwork required against the NFL's outside pass rushers, an issue not helped a broken fibula and dislocated ankle as a sophomore.Scherff first nurtured confusion about where to play him way back at Dennison (Iowa) High School where his football career included 1,200 yards passing as a sophomore; 200 yards and five touchdowns receiving as a junior and then, playing both sides of the line, led the team in tackling and blocking. Scherff also starred in baseball, tennis and was the state shot put champion as a sophomore. So at least the NFL has narrowed it down to one sport. - Frank Cooney, The Sports Xchange


http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/players/archive/1737625

but we should really have a thread on this instead of getting this one so far off track

[steelreserve]

Sadly, you're probably right ... OLB is not an urgent need in my opinion, and certainly not pressing enough to use your top draft pick on it, but for some reason everyone including the FO seems bought into the idea that your pass rushers drive the DL and DBs, and not the other way around.

We could probably see a significant improvement at the OLB position simply from being a bit smarter with existing personnel - Tuitt in the lineup more often; Cam Thomas never sees the field at all. But then again, we voluntarily skipped the chance to perform a major upgrade at NT for a net cost of $2 million, and draft track record combined with not so much the fact that we didn't sign a free-agent DB as the apparent total lack of effort there leads me to believe it's not terribly urgent to them either.

The thing about predicting the draft based on what players will be available is that the relationship between who SHOULD be available and who actually IS available inevitably breaks down after about the first 10 or 15 picks. You guys have your draft rankings and player valuations down 10 times more accurately than I ever could, but starting in late round 1, there are always a bunch of guys still there who shouldn't be, and a bunch of guys not there who nobody expected. The only thing that's been consistent is that regardless of which players fall or which positions we need, we ignore that unless a player who falls is an offensive lineman.

So rather than talent evaluation, the players likely to be available, or our most pressing needs, I am going to go with the only thing I know from this coaching/front office combo: Stubbornness and lack of vision. Basically, I have no faith that they have their draft priorities right, or even that they know what their personnel problems are. The historically weak schedule last year gave a false sense of security that they were handling it right. So it'll be another year of the caricature continuing: OLB in the first round, OL in the second. DB probably not until round 5; no DT at all.

[one side only]

OLB is an urgent need, based on the current roster. They will keep four, and have two. I would hope they would find a guy that is close to "plug & play" type player. The OLB they draft should either be a complete linebacker, one that can rush, play the run and cover, or such an explosive pass rusher that he could be inserted in a situational role immediately. Jarvis Jones is none of the above. I'm also wary of those "tweener" DE/OLB types. I am assuming the Butler defense will be very close to the LeBeau defense in terms of overall design and positional roles. If it turns out to be different, then all bets are off in terms of trying to figure out draft priorities.

A good pass rush can make up for average cornerback play. Very few corners have the skills to cause "coverage sacks." If they identify one of those guys, they should take him at #22. Consensus seems to be those guys will be gone, with the wild card being Marcus Peters.

I don't understand the fascination with defensive tackle. With the amount of nickel and dime formations used, the position offers diminishing returns on investment. McCullers should be given the opportunity to win the position, or at least splilt the snaps with McClendon. That tandem is adequate, with Heyward and Tuitt at end. I give Cam Thomas less than a 50/50 chances of making the team this year. I think they will draft a DE in the late rounds, or sign UDFA. I think Ethan Hemer has a chance of sticking this year. Letting Keisel go was no vote of confidence in Thomas; it was just a reflection of the Steelers' evaluation of Keisel's health and injury potential.

[steelreserve]

OLB is an urgent need, based on the current roster. They will keep four, and have two. I would hope they would find a guy that is close to "plug & play" type player. The OLB they draft should either be a complete linebacker, one that can rush, play the run and cover, or such an explosive pass rusher that he could be inserted in a situational role immediately. Jarvis Jones is none of the above. I'm also wary of those "tweener" DE/OLB types. I am assuming the Butler defense will be very close to the LeBeau defense in terms of overall design and positional roles. If it turns out to be different, then all bets are off in terms of trying to figure out draft priorities.

A good pass rush can make up for average cornerback play. Very few corners have the skills to cause "coverage sacks." If they identify one of those guys, they should take him at #22. Consensus seems to be those guys will be gone, with the wild card being Marcus Peters.

Again, I don't understand the logic in writing off Jones at this stage. There is in no way, shape or form enough evidence to make a judgment on him either way. It's all hip-shooting.

What we have is a high draft pick with an unknown outcome, and everyone clamoring to spend a second high draft pick on the same problem before we know whether the first one is any good. Have some fucking patience, people. Would you spend two #1 picks in the same draft on the same position? That's essentially what is being suggested. Unless there is something I am not aware of that proves Jones to be a historic bust, worse than Ziggy Hood, it is not time to give up and start again. The problem is not Jones, it's that people are making him into a problem because they don't know the answer yet.

Fire the guy you just paid a fortune for because he's not immediately dominant, and then turn around and pay through the nose for another guy with the same gilded resume? That's not smart. That's being the Redskins, only with draft picks instead of salary cap space.

As for whether an elite CB will be available by our pick, see the previous post. Even if all the very best CBs are gone, I would argue that there may still be more value in using the pick on a merely good CB who fills a dire need on our team, than on a slightly better player who does not fill a need.



I don't understand the fascination with defensive tackle. With the amount of nickel and dime formations used, the position offers diminishing returns on investment. McCullers should be given the opportunity to win the position, or at least splilt the snaps with McClendon. That tandem is adequate, with Heyward and Tuitt at end. I give Cam Thomas less than a 50/50 chances of making the team this year. I think they will draft a DE in the late rounds, or sign UDFA. I think Ethan Hemer has a chance of sticking this year. Letting Keisel go was no vote of confidence in Thomas; it was just a reflection of the Steelers' evaluation of Keisel's health and injury potential.

So, about why there's the fascination with defensive tackle. It's because the "diminishing returns" theory is as thin and vapid an argument as you will find anywhere in professional sports, but it's repeated to death by columnists and analysts who want to sound smart because OMG sabermetrics and analytics and The New Game of Football and OMG it's a Passing League. It's based on misapplied principles by people who want to sound innovative and get attention. It's completely full of shit. But unfortunately, a substantial number of fans have bought it because it sounds clever.

Let me ask you this. Currently, about 40-50% of offensive plays will be running plays, and the wide receivers play little or no part in them. Therefore, we shouldn't worry about who the WRs are, right? Just replace Bryant and Antonio Brown with Justin Brown and a street free agent, and the offense will be indistinguishable from the way it is today.

Sounds pretty dumb, right? Well, good, because that's the same argument that's being made about nose tackles. If you have a guy on the field who sucks, even if it's only for half the plays, it sets off a cascading failure. Especially on defense, where one bad play wipes out several good ones. Guess what, we don't line up in the nickel every down. And in our 3-4 defense, an "adequate" nose tackle is not going to cut it. You lean on a position that much, the player needs to be WELL above average.

What I don't understand is the infatuation with McLendon. He did well for a guy from whom not much was expected, but in absolute terms, he is not very successful. Other teams do not have to do anything special to account for him. The best argument in favor of him is a technical team-defense grade against certain kinds of running plays. He is not jumping out at you and making you go "Wow, THAT guy is making a difference." An interim guy who has become mistaken for a long-term solution simply because the position has been ignored; Najeh Davenport or Jonathan Dwyer with a jersey number in the 90s. That is not the answer. As for McCullers: Like Jones, I am hopeful for the guy, but - like Jones - there is nowhere near enough to form a solid opinion on him. I've seen flickers, that's all. An assortment of good plays, but also a lot where he got his ass handed to him. Maybe he will turn out to be the answer, but as long as we still don't know that, we were absolute fools to pass up some of the guys who were available to solidify that position this offseason, and for extremely cheap too.

[Steelerette]

Maybe he will turn out to be the answer, but as long as we still don't know that, we were absolute fools to pass up some of the guys who were available to solidify that position this offseason, and for extremely cheap too.
It pisses me off how cheap Terrance Knighton went for. Even if he's not great, he's better than what we have, at least until we figure out whether McCullers is going to be the guy.

[steelreserve]

It pisses me off how cheap Terrance Knighton went for. Even if he's not great, he's better than what we have, at least until we figure out whether McCullers is going to be the guy.


That's exactly the one I was referring to. $4 million for 1 year, and we're paying Cam Thomas $2 million just to waste space. The amount of improvement for the amount of money spent would have been staggering.

I don't even think of Knighton in the "oh well, not great, but better than what we have" category. He's pretty damn good. Bring him in for a year or two, and suddenly things might have started to go a lot differently for this defense.

[Steelerette]

That's exactly the one I was referring to. $4 million for 1 year, and we're paying Cam Thomas $2 million just to waste space. The amount of improvement for the amount of money spent would have been staggering.

I don't even think of Knighton in the "oh well, not great, but better than what we have" category. He's pretty damn good. Bring him in for a year or two, and suddenly things might have started to go a lot differently for this defense.

Knighton is pretty good, I don't mean that. Heck, if you cut Cam Thomas, give Knighton a 2 year, 7.5 million deal (I'd say longer but I have a feeling he's looking to have a "prove yourself" year and earn a much bigger next deal) and then use McLendon as a DE reserve... really you solved two problems not just one.

Maybe the Steelers are planning on surprising everyone and picking Danny Shelton.

[Pappy]

I am not convinced he will be a Guard , fact is ( many do not talk much about it ) he played the entire year with a leg injury slowing his movement ability ...

with a full off season that will recover and his movement will be adequate to be at tackle ...

Remember Beachum was slated as a Guard too
The kid from Iowa is a total beast. Best lineman prospect in the draft in my opinion.