Steelers release WR Lance Moore

[stillers4me]

The Steelers on Monday released wide receiver Lance Moore less than a year after signing the 31-year-old veteran to a 2-year, $3 million free agent deal.

Moore played in only 14 games for the Steelers and caught 14 passes for 198 yards and 2 touchdowns.

The move cleared $1.5 million in cap space for the Steelers, who now sit approximately $11 million under salary cap, which officially was announced at $143.28 million on Monday. The Steelers' adjusted salary cap (carryover from last year) is at $144,058 million.

Moore, who spent nine years in New Orleans before signing with the Steelers, reportedly asked for his release last month after a year in which he had limited opportunities.......


Read more: http://triblive.com/sports/steelers/7885786-74/story#ixzz3TGiAg7qo

572516146101919744

[Psycho Ward 86]

just to confirm, we are $11 million under including that damn dead money from woodley's deal, correct?

[stillers4me]

572528851429003264

[86WARD]

If they wanted, and after extending Ben, they could do some real damage in Free Agency...

[stillers4me]

572547406967017472

[Crash]

Can't develop rapport when you have Matt Speath and Will Johnson on the field Gerry.

[86WARD]

Both better options than Moore.

[Crash]

Both better options than Moore.

If you believe that I feel bad for you.

Will Johnson wouldn't see 10 snaps a game on any other team in this league.

[Psycho Ward 86]

If you believe that I feel bad for you.

Will Johnson wouldn't see 10 snaps a game on any other team in this league.

Matt Spaeth is one of the highest rated running blocking tight ends in the league the last couple of years. Hard to argue his presence on the field when he accomplishes that for an All-Pro running back. Will Johnson has been throwing some pretty savvy blocks since he nabbed him as well.

I've been telling Chidi to do a game film article on him the last year or two but he never got around to it :lol:

I tend to agree that Lance Moore had a lot more playmaking ability left in the tank than we were led on last season, but it seems to be he was ultimately just a victim of the number game. Its hard to steal targets from Brown, Bryant, Bell, Wheaton, and Miller. And not to mention get on the field when you have a back up tight end with outstanding blocking ability like Spaeth.

[Psycho Ward 86]

572528851429003264

Troy at -$6 million is one of them, Cam Thomas at -$2million, -$1.72 million Keisel.

Let's make this happen and make one or two signature splash moves

[Crash]

Extend Ben, sign McPhee and a corner.

Make a real effort. They have the cap room. They just asked fans to fork over $4000-$5000 per PSL for their new expansion in the Heinz Field South end zone.

Give them a reason to be glad they did.

[zulater]

Can't develop rapport when you have Matt Speath and Will Johnson on the field Gerry.

Those two players had nothing to do with Moore's opportunities or lack thereof. Had you mentioned Justin Brown. That would have been valid. It was the early season love affair that Tomlin and Haley had for Brown that kept Moore off the field at the beginning of the season. Which actually dated back to spring OTA's where apparently Justin came off looking like a football player. But of course in real game action it was fairly obvious that Justin practices better than he plays. The Steelers were too stubborn and slow to admit that Justin wasn't NFL caliber. Anyway as it relates to Lance Moore, the early lack of opportunities sort of snowballed into a bad season. A few times when he got on the field early in the season he seemed to be pressing and making physical and mental errors that a veteran of his caliber shouldn't be making. Then of course Martavis came along, and that for the most part shut the window on Lance.

[tube517]

Those two players had nothing to do with Moore's opportunities or lack thereof. Had you mentioned Justin Brown. That would have been valid. It was the early season love affair that Tomlin and Haley had for Brown that kept Moore off the field at the beginning of the season. Which actually dated back to spring OTA's where apparently Justin came off looking like a football player. But of course in real game action it was fairly obvious that Justin practices better than he plays. The Steelers were too stubborn and slow to admit that Justin wasn't NFL caliber. Anyway as it relates to Lance Moore, the early lack of opportunities sort of snowballed into a bad season. A few times when he got on the field early in the season he seemed to be pressing and making physical and mental errors that a veteran of his caliber shouldn't be making. Then of course Martavis came along, and that for the most part shut the window on Lance.

This plus Moore had an injury in preseason which also didn't help.

But, Haley sucks anyways so too bad! :chuckle:

[Crash]

Haley's awful. The problem is he was so bad for the first two years that any sign of improvement, however marginal, is overrated.

Sort of like Kordell Stewart's 2001 "Pro Bowl" season.

If Haley was from Detroit and his last name was Smith? He would have been fired after 2013.

The fact that people are calling 2014 Ben's "best season" is an insult to Ben's career.

[Mojouw]

This move isn't about where the team was at the start of 2014, but where they will be at the start of 2015.

Would anyone want Moore to see playing time over Brown, Bryant, and/or Wheaton?

Would Moore want to serve as a rarely used 4th WR?

Since the answer is likely "no" to both of those questions, release the player and find someone younger, cheaper, and with more upside to play 4th wr.

[Crash]

Wheaton? Absolutely. Wheaton looks great when it's simple for him.

But reading blitz pickup? Reading coverage? That's not his strong suit at all.

Just like the Wallace talk, if Haley woke up and realized that 3 WR base should be his offense? I'd sign Wallace ASAP. Put Brown, Wallace, and Bryant on the field with Miller and whomever at running back and get out of their way.

IMO the perfect landing spot for Wallace is Green Bay if they allow Cobb to leave.

[Mojouw]

Wheaton? Absolutely. Wheaton looks great when it's simple for him.

But reading blitz pickup? Reading coverage? That's not his strong suit at all.

Just like the Wallace talk, if Haley woke up and realized that 3 WR base should be his offense? I'd sign Wallace ASAP. Put Brown, Wallace, and Bryant on the field with Miller and whomever at running back and get out of their way.

IMO the perfect landing spot for Wallace is Green Bay if they allow Cobb to leave.

Fair enough on the Wheaton issue. He does look a bit over-matched mentally at times. But that can be fixed - particularly considering last season was basically his rookie year game experience wise. My point is at this point in their respective careers, Wheaton's ceiling is far higher than Moore's is. If Wheaton's biggest problem is the more complex portions of his craft, only game experience will fix that. Signing and playing a declining veteran in front of him does nothing to help the the player or the team.

I say take your lumps with the better talent. Something the Steelers, in my opinion, are often far too reluctant to do.

[zulater]

Wheaton? Absolutely. Wheaton looks great when it's simple for him.

But reading blitz pickup? Reading coverage? That's not his strong suit at all.

Just like the Wallace talk, if Haley woke up and realized that 3 WR base should be his offense? I'd sign Wallace ASAP. Put Brown, Wallace, and Bryant on the field with Miller and whomever at running back and get out of their way.

IMO the perfect landing spot for Wallace is Green Bay if they allow Cobb to leave.


Really? :doh: I'll bet there's 32 NFL head coaches and GMs that would take Wheaton over Lance Moore for the 15 season. Damn! Keep the hits rolling crash! :sofunny:

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This move isn't about where the team was at the start of 2014, but where they will be at the start of 2015.

Would anyone want Moore to see playing time over Brown, Bryant, and/or Wheaton?

Would Moore want to serve as a rarely used 4th WR?

Since the answer is likely "no" to both of those questions, release the player and find someone younger, cheaper, and with more upside to play 4th wr.

Stay with this. No reason to further explain yourself when you're right to someone so obviously wrong..

[Crash]

Really? :doh: I'll bet there's 32 NFL head coaches and GMs that would take Wheaton over Lance Moore for the 15 season. Damn! Keep the hits rolling crash!

And when Moore goes back to New Orleans or Denver (which is rumored) and produces better than Wheaton? Then what?

[zulater]

And when Moore goes back to New Orleans or Denver (which is rumored) and produces better than Wheaton? Then what?




[/COLOR]

And if Wheaton was available to either of those two teams they would politely tell Moore to shove off.

[Psycho Ward 86]

Wheaton? Absolutely. Wheaton looks great when it's simple for him.

But reading blitz pickup? Reading coverage? That's not his strong suit at all.

Just like the Wallace talk, if Haley woke up and realized that 3 WR base should be his offense? I'd sign Wallace ASAP. Put Brown, Wallace, and Bryant on the field with Miller and whomever at running back and get out of their way.

IMO the perfect landing spot for Wallace is Green Bay if they allow Cobb to leave.

Your steeldawg is showing

[zulater]

Your steeldawg is showing

:lol:

[Crash]

Your steeldawg is showing

No, I'm me. Never posted here until now.

Don't pigeon hole Wallace because of how he left. Judge him on his whole body of work.

If I had a 3 WR offense with #10 #17 and #84? Miller at tight end? And a pass catching threat RB like Bell? I'd take my chances against any defense in football.

Just like when they scored 20 points on four of their first five possessions against the Lions in 2013, and backup TE's Johnson, Palmer, and Spaeth didn't see the field the ENTIRE HALF.

[Hawkman]

No, I'm me. Never posted here until now.

Don't pigeon hole Wallace because of how he left. Judge him on his whole body of work.

If I had a 3 WR offense with #10 #17 and #84? Miller at tight end? And a pass catching threat RB like Bell? I'd take my chances against any defense in football.

Just like when they scored 20 points on four of their first five possessions against the Lions in 2013, and backup TE's Johnson, Palmer, and Spaeth didn't see the field the ENTIRE HALF.

This thread is about MOORE!!!!!

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Your steeldawg is showing

A little MrPgh too. Haven't seen a post from him since a little before Crash started. hmmm

[LLT]

And when Moore goes back to New Orleans or Denver (which is rumored) and produces better than Wheaton? Then what?






Then that team is stuck with a player on the wrong side of 30 who has averaged 2 TD's in his last two years with two different teams....While we have a a young player with a higher ceiling.

Pretty simple.

[Crash]

This thread is about MOORE!!!!!

Right, and MOORE'S!!!!! production, as well as Bryant's from games 2-6 was nothing. Mostly because of Haley's obsession with 2-3 TE sets.

To compare, here are the Packers 2014 splits:

161 of 971 plays with 2+ TE's on the field.

2014 Steelers:

383 of 1035 plays with 2+ TE's on the field.

Not a coincidence Rodgers was the MVP.

Someone here mentioned Knowshawn Moreno as a possible #2 RB fit, in 2013 he resurrected his career in Denver, and with that, this tidbit below:

According to ESPN Stats & Information, the Broncos have run 941 plays out of sets with at least three wide receivers this season, including the playoffs, by far the most in the NFL. As a result, 80.6 percent of Moreno's rushes have come with six or fewer defenders in the box, by far the highest percentage in the league.

Moreno averaged 4.5 yards per rush and scored seven touchdowns in those situations.

Now what do you think will happen if Moreno was in Pittsburgh in Todd Haley's current offensive setup? He'd see 8 men in the box, and he'd take the same pounding that Bell has.

[86WARD]

Your steeldawg is showing

Lol...

[86WARD]

Someone here mentioned Knowshawn Moreno as a possible #2 RB fit, in 2013 he resurrected his career in Denver, and with that, this tidbit below:

According to ESPN Stats & Information, the Broncos have run 941 plays out of sets with at least three wide receivers this season, including the playoffs, by far the most in the NFL. As a result, 80.6 percent of Moreno's rushes have come with six or fewer defenders in the box, by far the highest percentage in the league.

Moreno averaged 4.5 yards per rush and scored seven touchdowns in those situations.

Now what do you think will happen if Moreno was in Pittsburgh in Todd Haley's current offensive setup? He'd see 8 men in the box, and he'd take the same pounding that Bell has.



Which has nothing to do with The over the hill Lance Moore.

[Bluecoat96]

http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15/03/03/832d8aee570c49aeaf44278abac61977.jpg

Don't feed the troll.

[Hawkman]

http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15/03/03/832d8aee570c49aeaf44278abac61977.jpg

Don't feed the troll.

Isn't it time for troll to go?

[X-Terminator]

Isn't it time for troll to go?

Crash is annoying, but in reading some of his posts, he's said a lot of the same things I have over the years about Haley, and AR2.

But Crash...please. Stop bringing Haley up in every damn thread. It's really getting annoying, and it's completely unnecessary.

[Crash]

Which has nothing to do with The over the hill Lance Moore.

IMO he's not over the hill. Just needs to be used in an offense that uses his skills.

Let's be honest here, if Bruce Arians was the OC, and he deactivated Moore prior to a playoff game when the opponent's secondary was lacking in slot cornerbacks in favor of Will Johnson in the slot with Bell out? He'd get destroyed.

Cris Collinsworth said it the next week five minutes into the divisional round game: "The Patriots are doing what I thought Pittsburgh would do, attack the Ravens in the slot".

Well we couldn't, because Bell was out, and the ONLY other slot option we had was inactive.

I wanted to throw my TV out the freaking window.

[zulater]

IMO he's not over the hill. Just needs to be used in an offense that uses his skills.

Let's be honest here, if Bruce Arians was the OC, and he deactivated Moore prior to a playoff game when the opponent's secondary was lacking in slot cornerbacks in favor of Will Johnson in the slot with Bell out? He'd get destroyed.

Cris Collinsworth said it the next week five minutes into the divisional round game: "The Patriots are doing what I thought Pittsburgh would do, attack the Ravens in the slot".

Well we couldn't, because Bell was out, and the ONLY other slot option we had was inactive.

I wanted to throw my TV out the freaking window.

That's a fair point. But I'm not 100% sure that falls on Haley. Tomlin for some odd reasons seemed to have a thing against Moore. So it could have been either or both behind that ridiculous move.

Look many of us have misgivings about Haley. The talent is there for this offense to be the best in the league or damn close to it. Barring injury to any of the major players it will be maybe despite Haley. But when you need that subtle little tweak that could spell the difference in an important game, yeah I hear ya, the guy inspires no confidence. Just got to hope everyone stays healthy and Todd or Tomlin don't get in the players way.

As far as Moore while I agree he should have been given more chance to play last year, that ship has sailed. And going into 2015 I don't see his loss as any major detriment.

[Crash]

Haley runs the offense. It's HIS baby.


Look many of us have misgivings about Haley. The talent is there for this offense to be the best in the league or damn close to it.

But Haley doesn't use it. He uses it when they get behind, and they have no choice, but to leave the wides on the field.

Ever hear Charlie Batch discuss Haley? He makes no bones about the utter disdain he has for him.

[Steelerette]

Haley's not going anywhere. Neither is this thread apparently.

[Mojouw]

Matt Spaeth was on the field for only 30% of the Steelers total offensive snaps in 2014. The majority of the offensive snaps, the Steelers trotted out Miller, Brown, and another WR.

So a team that wants to run the ball and sometimes has trouble blocking, puts an excellent blocking TE on the field for less than a third of the plays. I guess they really live in that jumbo set.

Also, Lance Moore is done at this point in his career. There are at least a dozen guys in this years draft (I bet, what do I know) that could catch 40 balls out of the slot for most teams. Moore is on the wrong side of 30 and hasn't consistently gotten open in 2 years now.

[Crash]

Matt Spaeth was on the field for only 30% of the Steelers total offensive snaps in 2014.

When was he out there? And more importantly, when WASN'T he out there?

Who cares if they are down multiple scores in games late with no chance to win and teams are chewing clock in prevent when we run three wides (Saints), or if we are down 21-3 after three quarters and Paulson and Johnson combined for ONE SNAP in the 4th quarter (2013 Oakland).

Reading stats doesn't tell the story.

Paying attention during the game does.

[Mojouw]

When was he out there? And more importantly, when WASN'T he out there?

Who cares if they are down multiple scores in games late with no chance to win and teams are chewing clock in prevent when we run three wides (Saints), or if we are down 21-3 after three quarters and Paulson and Johnson combined for ONE SNAP in the 4th quarter (2013 Oakland).

Reading stats doesn't tell the story.

Paying attention during the game does. [/COLOR]

okay. Why don't you chart the personnel on the field for every Steelers offensive snap in 2014. Then do the same for a few teams to compare to. You have used the Packers previously. Why don't you look at them. Please be sure to account for injuries as well. Also show your work.

Since I don't have time to do that and I refuse to rely on my memory, I will use stats to the best of my ability to support my opinions.

[Crash]

Aaron Rodgers threw 40 of 520 passes with 2+ TE's on the field.

Ben? 156 of 608 with 2+ TE's.

2013 Peyton? 53 of 659 with 2+ TE's.

Not a coincidence that Peyton and Rodgers are your last two MVP's.

They go to the race track driving Porsche's. Ben's at the race track in a 1975 Pinto.

[zulater]

Aaron Rodgers threw 40 of 520 passes with 2+ TE's on the field.

Ben? 156 of 608 with 2+ TE's.

2013 Peyton? 53 of 659 with 2+ TE's.

Not a coincidence that Peyton and Rodgers are your last two MVP's.

They go to the race track driving Porsche's. Ben's at the race track in a 1975 Pinto.

Yet Ben threw for more yards than both of them last season. Go figure? :coffee:

- - - Updated - - -


Haley's not going anywhere. Neither is this thread apparently.

It's getting close. :doh: SMH

[Crash]

Yet Ben threw for more yards than both of them last season. Go figure? :coffee:

So you value garbage time stats then? I don't. And I pretty much bet the house that Ben doesn't either.

Btw, the 2010 Chargers were the #1 offense, and the #1 defense, in the NFL.

They missed the playoffs.

So much for yardage rankings.

[Mojouw]

Aaron Rodgers threw 40 of 520 passes with 2+ TE's on the field.

Ben? 156 of 608 with 2+ TE's.

2013 Peyton? 53 of 659 with 2+ TE's.

Not a coincidence that Peyton and Rodgers are your last two MVP's.

They go to the race track driving Porsche's. Ben's at the race track in a 1975 Pinto.

The Packers also struggled all season to identify 2 healthy TEs, let alone 2 talented ones. I would like to see their ratios during the last healthy season Finley had.

Point being is that Miller>any of the Packers current TE's. And Spaeth is a better blocker than the Pack's TEs and some of their linemen.

Context, dude...Context.

For instance the Steelers may pass out of running formation to get the match-ups on the field they want. The Pack may run out of passing formations to do the same.

Again, context.

[LLT]

And all that has nothing to do with the fact that the front office decided to go with a young player with a high ceiling...over an aging player.

Its as simple as that.

Did Manning throw more touchdowns when wearing his white jersey...on Monday nights...when the temperature was between 72-81 degrees...to wide receivers born under the sign of Aquarius?

Perhaps.....


....and who gives a rats ass.

[zulater]

So you value garbage time stats then? I don't. And I pretty much bet the house that Ben doesn't either.

Btw, the 2010 Chargers were the #1 offense, and the #1 defense, in the NFL.

They missed the playoffs.

So much for yardage rankings.

And you proved this because......

Fuck this guy. Mods if you keep letting this piece of shot run rampant on every thread. I'm done here.

[Hawkman]

And you proved this because......

Fuck this guy. Mods if you keep letting this piece of shot run rampant on every thread. I'm done here.

Amen Zu!

[Dwinsgames]

one thing about Crash .... he is true to his name , he crashes ever damned thread he enters

- - - Updated - - -


And you proved this because......

Fuck this guy. Mods if you keep letting this piece of shot run rampant on every thread. I'm done here.


agreed

[Crash]

I would like to see their ratios during the last healthy season Finley had.

Finley's career high in catches was 2012:

Rodgers? 37 out of 552 passes with 2 TE's on the field.

So his ratio was even HIGHER that season than his most recent MVP one.

The numbers above were just passing numbers with Ben and Rodgers.

TOTAL plays? 161 out of 971 plays GB had 2+ TE's on the field in 2014

TOTAL plays? 383 out of 1035 plays the Steelers had 2+TE's on the field in 2014.

Steelers had a +64 play advantage on Green Bay, but they also had a +222 play advantage with 2+ TE's.

And that's ridiculous. That's not using the talents of your offense, nor using the skills of your quarterback.


And all that has nothing to do with the fact that the front office decided to go with a young player with a high ceiling...over an aging player.

Its as simple as that.

Where was Bryant for 5 weeks to start the season? Wasn't he younger than Moore then too?

The age of the #3-#4 WR doesn't matter when Will Johnson and Matt Spaeth are gobbling up snaps.

[Mojouw]

Finley's career high in catches was 2012:

Rodgers? 37 out of 552 passes with 2 TE's on the field.

So his ratio was even HIGHER that season than his most recent MVP one.

The numbers above were just passing numbers with Ben and Rodgers.

TOTAL plays? 161 out of 971 plays GB had 2+ TE's on the field in 2014

TOTAL plays? 383 out of 1035 plays the Steelers had 2+TE's on the field in 2014.

Steelers had a +64 play advantage on Green Bay, but they also had a +222 play advantage with 2+ TE's.

And that's ridiculous. That's not using the talents of your offense, nor using the skills of your quarterback.














- - - Updated - - -



Where was Bryant for 5 weeks to start the season? Wasn't he younger than Moore then too?

The age of the #3-#4 WR doesn't matter when Will Johnson and Matt Spaeth are gobbling up snaps.

Now, see, that is something everyone can talk about. One last suggestion, where are you pulling the formation stats from? Might be fun for others to play around with them as well.

[Crash]

ESPN splits, but 2012 is as far as they go.

[Crash]

Oh btw, I said this on another forum before Todd Haley coached one game in Pittsburgh:

"No no no. Use Miller in motion, at the LOS, in the slot anywhere but the backfield.

-Crash 4/28/2012


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zyn9uhlswGQ

Where was Miller? And what happened?

You're asking a tight end in his 8th year to run 9 yards to gain FOUR.

A slow developing play and Ben got squashed.

[Shoes]

Enough of this bullshit. I wish you all well!

[LLT]

Oh btw, I said this on another forum before Todd Haley coached one game in Pittsburgh:

"No no no. Use Miller in motion, at the LOS, in the slot anywhere but the backfield.

-Crash 4/28/2012


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zyn9uhlswGQ

Where was Miller? And what happened?

You're asking a tight end in his 8th year to run 9 yards to gain FOUR.

A slow developing play and Ben got squashed.

Are you posting JUST to piss people off?

You DONT know as much as you think you do...and you are PURPOSEFULLY condescending to everyone on this board!!!!

[Crash]

Actually I post it with the dates to PROVE that I know the weaknesses of this team.

Just like the Chargers game that year, Dwyer fails on TWO 4th and 1's.

On BOTH plays, he is lined up, 8 1/2 yards behind the LOS. So you're asking HIM, to run almost TEN YARDS from the snap of the ball, to net a gain of ONE.

And when it fails? The OL gets blamed for it. And that's dumb.

[Crash]

and you are PURPOSEFULLY condescending to everyone on this board!!

I think the PM I sent you pretty much proves that to be inaccurate, no?

Mojo and I debate plenty. Why? Because he actually tries to debate with logic. And leaves the insults away from the forum.

[LLT]

Actually I post it with the dates to PROVE that I know the weaknesses of this team.

Just like the Chargers game that year, Dwyer fails on TWO 4th and 1's.

On BOTH plays, he is lined up, 8 1/2 yards behind the LOS. So you're asking HIM, to run almost TEN YARDS from the snap of the ball, to net a gain of ONE.

And when it fails? The OL gets blamed for it. And that's dumb.

Exactly. You post...too PROVE something. Not to be a part of this community, but out of a need to show others that they are wrong and you are right.

This forum is ....family.

Treat it like one or find someplace else to post.

I cant make it simpler than that.

[Hawkman]

[/COLOR][COLOR=#333333

And leaves the insults away from the forum.


[/COLOR]

Unlike you? Shall I retrieve all the insults you have produced over the past few days?

[Crash]

This forum is ....family.

So "family members" can send me profanity laced PM's when they don't even know me?

No, I prove things with facts about this football team. You don't have to like them. But tell me WHY? Calling me a troll isn't debating, members trying to give you ultimatums isn't debating either.

[Crash]

Unlike you? Shall I retrieve all the insults you have produced over the past few days?

Knock yourself out.

[LLT]

So "family members" can send me profanity laced PM's when they don't even know me?

No, I prove things with facts about this football team. You don't have to like them. But tell me WHY? Calling me a troll isn't debating, members trying to give you ultimatums isn't debating either. [/COLOR]

And that's the point. You don't allow anyone to "debate" with you. In YOUR mind they are "facts" and you feel justified. In reality you talk in circles...spin what others say...twist logic...and pretend you proved something.

What is NOT going to be debated is whether you are going to be allowed to make this forum your personal medicinal soapbox. You have three choices. stay and treat others with respect....find someplace else to post....or I'll be happy to make the decision for you.

[Crash]

And that's the point. You don't allow anyone to "debate" with you.

I encourage debate. By all means, debate me.

here was my first response in the free agent thread:

"You move Tuitt to nose and Suh outside. Or you hybrid and flip them during games"

A clear, astute football observation.

What I got in response was:

"clearly you have no idea what you are talking about , "

My response to that was:

"Well guess what? Things change. Use your brain. You aren't paying Suh perhaps the HIGHEST paid contract to a defensive player in NFL HISTORY, to occupy blockers.

You're paying him to get to the quarterback and make plays"

Another astute football observation.

His response to that was:

you are a real piece of work ... Goodbye
_______________________

Who's trying to debate here, and who isn't?

- - - Updated - - -


Crash is annoying, but in reading some of his posts, he's said a lot of the same things I have over the years about Haley, and AR2

I guess X here is a troll too?

[LLT]

I encourage debate. By all means, debate me.

[/COLOR]here was my first response in the free agent thread:

"You move Tuitt to nose and Suh outside. Or you hybrid and flip them during games"

A clear, astute football observation.

What I got in response was:

"clearly you have no idea what you are talking about , "

My response to that was:

"Well guess what? Things change. Use your brain. You aren't paying Suh perhaps the HIGHEST paid contract to a defensive player in NFL HISTORY, to occupy blockers.

You're paying him to get to the quarterback and make plays"

Another astute football observation.

His response to that was:

you are a real piece of work ... Goodbye
_______________________

Who's trying to debate here, and who isn't?

I talked to him about some of his posts. Now I'm talking to you. "Use your Brain" is not debating.

[Crash]

Neither is "clearly you have no idea what you are talking about"

Read my posts all you want. I'm debating.

[LLT]

Neither is "clearly you have no idea what you are talking about"

Read my posts all you want. I'm debating.




Crash....this is not up for further review. I ALREADY told you that others have been talked to. THIS IS ABOUT YOUR PART IN IT!!! Cool your jets and treat others with respect. Its not difficult!!!!

[Psycho Ward 86]

Right, and MOORE'S!!!!! production, as well as Bryant's from games 2-6 was nothing. Mostly because of Haley's obsession with 2-3 TE sets.

To compare, here are the Packers 2014 splits:

161 of 971 plays with 2+ TE's on the field.

2014 Steelers:

383 of 1035 plays with 2+ TE's on the field.

Not a coincidence Rodgers was the MVP.

Someone here mentioned Knowshawn Moreno as a possible #2 RB fit, in 2013 he resurrected his career in Denver, and with that, this tidbit below:

According to ESPN Stats & Information, the Broncos have run 941 plays out of sets with at least three wide receivers this season, including the playoffs, by far the most in the NFL. As a result, 80.6 percent of Moreno's rushes have come with six or fewer defenders in the box, by far the highest percentage in the league.

Moreno averaged 4.5 yards per rush and scored seven touchdowns in those situations.

Now what do you think will happen if Moreno was in Pittsburgh in Todd Haley's current offensive setup? He'd see 8 men in the box, and he'd take the same pounding that Bell has.






Im not sure why you have such a huge problem with the team utilizing one of the best tight ends in the league and one of the best blocking tight ends in the league.

Although I think we can all agree its no coincidence Rodgers has been the league MVP several times....


Because he's really fucking good. Not because the packers don't use tight end sets. The offensive personnel on the packers compared to us is so damn different. The packers top tight ends are andrew quarless, richard rodgers, and a scrub who can't even catch an easy onside kick. And Lacy is good, but he's no Leveon. On the flip side, Nelson, Cobb, Adams, and Boykin make up one of the more formidably deep receiving corps in the league. Of course they're not going to use 2 tight end sets as much as us. I mean god damn, talk about apples and potatoes. We aren't even discussing the same fucking food group up in this bitch.

[Crash]

Im not sure why you have such a huge problem with the team utilizing one of the best tight ends in the league and one of the best blocking tight ends in the league.

Because three wide is Roethlisberger's strength. How come when there's two minutes on the clock, and we need a goddamn score we aren't throwing with Spaeth and Johnson on the field like we do for the first 48 minutes? Wouldn't it be better to use your best assets at the beginning of a game and attack a defense (cough 2013 Lions game)?


On the flip side, Nelson, Cobb, Adams, and Boykin make up one of the more formidably deep receiving corps in the league

I would take Brown, Bryant, and any vet #3 WR you sign and Wheaton with Bell and Miller as my base offense against any team in the league.

[Psycho Ward 86]

Because three wide is Roethlisberger's strength. How come when there's two minutes on the clock, and we need a goddamn score we aren't throwing with Spaeth and Johnson on the field like we do for the first 48 minutes? Wouldn't it be better to use your best assets at the beginning of a game and attack a defense (cough 2013 Lions game)?



[/COLOR]I would take Brown, Bryant, and any vet #3 WR you sign and Wheaton with Bell and Miller as my base offense against any team in the league.








The packers have shit tight ends and dont possess arguably the best RB in the league.

[Crash]

The packers have shit tight ends and dont possess arguably the best RB in the league.

So explain the 2013 Lions game?

Explain the first 25 minutes of the 2014 season opener?

As Mr. Batch said, (remember he played for Haley), when they use three wide and don't sub? That takes Todd Haley out of the game.

And he doesn't like it.

[LLT]

How come when there's two minutes on the clock, and we need a goddamn score we aren't throwing with Spaeth and Johnson on the field like we do for the first 48 minutes?



Because when you need a score...and there is only two minutes left on the clock....you put in those players that stretch the field and pick up chunks of yardage

At the beginning of the game you can pass out of a two tight end set OR run out of a two tight end set to keep the defense honest. You don't have that luxury with two minutes and needing a score.

[Crash]

I'll ask you the same question then, explain the 2013 first half of the Lions game, and the first 25 minutes of the 2014 season opener.

Was THAT keeping the "defense honest"?

[Crash]

Lions game 2013:

77 snaps for the Steelers offense.

67 snaps for Brown

67 snaps for Cotchery

67 snaps for Sanders/Wheaton (Sanders left hurt after 19 snaps, Wheat took his place with 48 snaps)

That's not keeping the defense honest, is it?

You know what else we did that day? Had our highest scoring output on OFFENSE, all season.

[LLT]

I'll ask you the same question then, explain the 2013 first half of the Lions game, and the first 25 minutes of the 2014 season opener.

Was THAT keeping the "defense honest"?

The answer to the 2013 Lions game is irrelevant. You wanted an answer and I gave you the CORRECT answer. Two tight ends sets are used early in the game because you can pass and run out of them. They are generally NOT used at the end of games when you are trying to score for the obvious reasons I gave you.

Trying to use one game to change FACT is a lesson in futility.

[Crash]

You wanted an answer and I gave you the CORRECT answer.

No, you gave me your opinion. That doesn't make it correct or wrong.

Broncos 2013, 941 plays with three wides or more, by far the most in the NFL (And not just one game to change FACT, but a whole season). Peyton was the MVP.

So much for keeping teams honest.

[LLT]

No, you gave me your opinion. That doesn't make it correct or wrong.

Broncos 2013, 941 plays with three wides or more, by far the most in the NFL (And not just one game to change FACT, but a whole season). Peyton was the MVP.

So much for keeping teams honest.


[/COLOR]

Its Footbal 101. If you were to ask a high school coach....if you were to ask a college coach...if you were to ask an NFL coach...they will give you the same answer. Finding exceptions to the rule is not proof.

There are a multitude of variables that go into game planning that might cause a team to deviate from the basic concepts of football. If a team has an abysmal secondary..you might run three wide all day long. If they have a defense that is terrible at stopping the run, you might run a two tight end set all day.

They are "exceptions" based on variables.....they are NOT proof that Football 101 shouldn't be followed 99% of the time.

Manning is the best QB to ever play the game. He IS a variable.

[Crash]

Manning is the best QB to ever play the game.

If you say so. Again, your opinion is NOT FACT.

[LLT]

If you say so. Again, your opinion is NOT FACT.






Never claimed it was. But "why" teams would run a 2 tight end set at the beginning of games and not at the end.....IS fact. Regardless of whether you accept it or not.

[Crash]

So you can't run the ball from three wide?

This guy disagrees.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7oxbocufUeA

So does this guy.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iq8D-Ollaio

[Mojouw]

In both of those plays, the down, distance, game situation, game clock, etc meant the pass was still a very viable option.

In the debate a bit up-thread the point was that in late game, when you have a lead in clock-killing situations (what some refer to as the 4:00 minute offense) and everyone knows you are NOT going to pass, you put in another TE and a FB or seven and go back to about 1955 and grind out the win.

These two counter examples are in a totally different situation where the entire playbook is an option. Therefore, running out of a "typical" passing formation can lead to some success.

Also, Hines Ward was a better blocker in the run game than most TEs and some tackles.

[Psycho Ward 86]

So explain the 2013 Lions game?

Explain the first 25 minutes of the 2014 season opener?

As Mr. Batch said, (remember he played for Haley), when they use three wide and don't sub? That takes Todd Haley out of the game.

And he doesn't like it. [/COLOR]

I think the folks above me answered this. By the way, a game and a half of offense in the given situations arent exactly good examples of the point you're trying to make.

[Mojouw]

I will leave this here (http://tylervigen.com/)

with a warning about correlation vs causation.

[LLT]

So you can't run the ball from three wide?

This guy disagrees.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7oxbocufUeA

So does this guy.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iq8D-Ollaio

Who the hell said you can't run the ball from the wide? ?

Ok....that's about it from you.

[86WARD]

Could this thread be closed and a new "Lance Moore Thread" be opened? This one is just a little too "messy"...no?

[zulater]

Who the hell said you can't run the ball from the wide? ?

Ok....that's about it from you.

Thank you LLT! :rockon:

Normally I wouldn't advocate someone's dismissal, but the guy was tiresome. You give him an olive branch, tell him you agree with some of what he says or that you can see his points and it's like no, you gotta agree with me right across the board on everything or I'll tell you you're an idiot.

As for this subject. Injuries and a mis- evaluation on Justin Brown got Lance Moore off to a poor start for this team. When he had a chance to get on the field he may have been pressing too hard, and he made uncharacteristic errors, dropping balls taking bad penalties etc...And things just never untracked for him in Pittsburgh. I do agree that it was foolish to deactivate him against the Ravens for the playoff game. The basis of that decision eludes me?

All that said he may or may not have another good season or two left in the league? But even if he does he's not going to be too hard to replace. At best he would have been the 4th receiver on this roster. And if you're the Steelers you want your 4th receiver to be able to play special teams. And have a contract under a million per.

That pretty much closes the book on Lance Moore as far as I'm concerned.

[Hawkman]

Can I come back now?!:bounce:

[zulater]

Can I come back now?!:bounce:

Of course. It's as if you never left. :lol:

[Hawkman]

Of course. It's as if you never left. :lol:

That's COLD!!:hurt::heh: