Is NT Actually a Problem?

[Mojouw]

I've been thinking a bit about whether or not NT is actually a problem for the Steelers or if it is even a need this off-season.

I found these charts: http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/dl

Which seem to indicate that only 8 teams stopped "power" runs better than the Steelers (2 yards or less on 3rd and 4th down). The last couple of charts appear to indicate that the Steelers are 9th best at stopping runs up the middle (actually yielding less than the NFL average). They seem to be getting killed with runs over the offense's right side, the defense's left. That is surprising because that is Heyward's side, not Tuitt's as I expected. But it is also Worild's side - so maybe that is it?

Overall it looks like they got killed in runs at the ends, particularly the offensive right side of the line, but not so much up the gut. So that could mean Cam Thomas stunk early in the year and Tuitt was a rookie later in the year (likely explaining the success to the offensive left side) and Jason Worilds can't set an edge (the success on the offensive right side). Or maybe the young ILB on that side didn't fill as quickly as Timmons did on the other side. Or, finally, it could mean that the NT is not taking on multiple blockers and those offensive linemen are getting to the edge and washing out the pursuit.

Judging by the fact that the runs up the middle were not successful, and that PFF grades McClendon high week in and week out, and that visual evidence attests that McCullers can't be moved, I'm going to put forth the hypothesis that NT is NOT the problem with the Steelers defense. It is the poor play against the run of Cam Thomas, Jason Worilds, and bad angles by safeties and inexperienced ILBs on the defensive left side.

[Steeldude]

Perhaps Heyward does not occupy blockers and/or maintain gap integrity.

[tube517]

I am not a big McClendon fan and wasn't sold on him at NT. But, the run defense improved later in the year when he came back from injury. My concern is his durability. We got spoiled with Big snack and having a very good backup in Chris Hoke so there was never a concern then. McCullers should improve in his 2nd season.

[Dwinsgames]

stopping the run is not McLendons problem . occupying 2 blockers is , Heyward is seemingly more concerned with rushing the passer than taking on two blockers of our 3 D-Linemen only 1 is built 2 occupy 2 blockers and that is Tuitt but he too at times seems more concerned with getting up field and pressuring the passer ( this impart is the problem with our OLBers getting pressure the men in front of them are not keeping them clean )

think back when Big Snack and Aaron Smith where here , they both took on the double teams ( willingly ) and Da'beard only had to handle one since then ... not so much and from that point on our LBers have not been as successful ... coincidence ? I think not


just my 2 cents

[Steeltreal]

Ditch the 3-4

[Psycho Ward 86]

no. this has been a myth for a while. Speaking of this year in particular, the biggest problems earlier on with stopping the run was because Cam Thomas was starting, Jarvis Jones wasnt setting the edge, and Timmons was streaky as hell. Moats wasnt setting the edge well either, but everyone got better as the year went on.

Pretty much all of our worst run defense efforts were with Mclendon out and/or with Cam Thomas in

cornerback, safety, and olb are all way bigger concerns.

[Steelman]

Good post and analysis, Mojouw. It's definitely an interesting take and food for thought.

It will be interesting to see how McCullers is able to develop this off season with some actual game experience under his belt. I like McClendon for what he is -- a serviceable defensive lineman who's willing to work wherever he's lined up. But I think it would be a good idea to axe Cam Thomas immediately and bring in a draftee or FA who can actually play the nose.


Perhaps Heyward does not occupy blockers and/or maintain gap integrity.

I think Heyward's issues stemmed more from covering for Worilds and trying to be a pass rusher at the same time. But it did seem like the team as a whole got better at playing their assigned gaps over the course of the season.

This may or may not be useful, but I noted Heyward at the nose on several occasions late in the season. Whether this was strictly for pass rushing or run stuffing, I can't recall. But I remember it stood out because he had success when lined up there.

[Chidi29]

You have it backwards. Tuitt is the LE, Heyward is the right. Heyward is the best DL we have, he shouldn't be criticized. Tuitt struggled early as you'd expect but showed rapid improvement after getting thrown into the fire.

As usual, we had issue again zone schemes. Did well vs power where it is easier to stack and shed. Lit of the problems were scheme related than any individual struggling sans Thomas, who was pretty bad.

Run defense really improved over the season. Tackling got better tenfold and the Steelers stopped allowing splash plays in the run game. That was key.

[Mojouw]

Chidi, thanks for the correction. I pulled the info from the depth chart on the Steelers site, but I think mentally switching between right and left for the offense and the defense got me all turned around.

Do you think any of the running success to the one side is related to inexperience from Shazier, Williams, and Spence? Thinking that in reading and reacting to zone plays they may be a tick slower or less technically sound than Timmons...but I really have no idea.

[Chidi29]

It's not your fault. The team's depth chart does show it the way you explained. But that's why those really shouldn't be trusted. Only exists because they have to publish one.

If we're saying the issue is runs to the offense's right, that is Timmons side. The Buck linebacker.

Williams is strong vs the run. Spence has been inconsistent, not surprising since this is really Hus first year playing.

I haven't looked at the numbers nor gone through my final charting, finished that last night, but iblean towards taking a simpler explanation for why offenses run more effectively to the right.

That is the offenses dominate side. Usually the one with a TE and a power blocking RT. Naturally, they're better. It's likely the same with any other defense out there.

[steelreserve]

Stopping runs up the middle isn't the only measure of success for a nose tackle. More often than not, an inside linebacker or one of the defensive ends is the one who makes the tackle anyway. The nose tackle's job is to disrupt their blocking scheme on plays of all types.

When Casey Hampton was good - or going back further, Joel Steed - all the time you would see plays where you knew the nose tackle wasn't going to get a sack or make a big play himself, but he shoved his way into the backfield with one or two guys struggling like hell to contain him, so then the pocket collapsed, or the running back had to improvise, and the play in general just got fucked up and then the guy with the ball got swarmed. As Dwins mentioned, Aaron Smith was able to do this also, which is a major reason why our defense was so tough and we got so much more pressure on the QB back then.

Basically, you need a guy who is a badass sumo wrestler. Defending the gaps and moving laterally to stop the run is only doing half the job. We haven't had someone who could do the whole job for about 5 years now.

Honestly, our current personnel ARE more suited to the 4-3 than the 3-4 and have been for a couple years. Especially since we've got a lot of linebackers that are inside/outside hybrid types ... if you assume Worilds won't be back and Jarvis Jones could be used as a hybrid DE, then you've got a lineup that makes a lot of sense, and you're not left plugging holes at both LB and DT in addition to our house-on-fire situation in the defensive backfield. Maybe add one guy who can play DT - who wouldn't have to be the "once-every-three-years unblockable NT who goes in the top 10" kind of player - and you're good. Never quite understood why we were so married to a scheme when it was obvious we didn't have the players to make it work. Of course, it will only change when LeBeau decided to move on, but it's sounding like that could be any day.

[Dwinsgames]

Stopping runs up the middle isn't the only measure of success for a nose tackle. More often than not, an inside linebacker or one of the defensive ends is the one who makes the tackle anyway. The nose tackle's job is to disrupt their blocking scheme on plays of all types.

When Casey Hampton was good - or going back further, Joel Steed - all the time you would see plays where you knew the nose tackle wasn't going to get a sack or make a big play himself, but he shoved his way into the backfield with one or two guys struggling like hell to contain him, so then the pocket collapsed, or the running back had to improvise, and the play in general just got fucked up and then the guy with the ball got swarmed. As Dwins mentioned, Aaron Smith was able to do this also, which is a major reason why our defense was so tough and we got so much more pressure on the QB back then.

Basically, you need a guy who is a badass sumo wrestler. Defending the gaps and moving laterally to stop the run is only doing half the job. We haven't had someone who could do the whole job for about 5 years now.

Honestly, our current personnel ARE more suited to the 4-3 than the 3-4 and have been for a couple years. Especially since we've got a lot of linebackers that are inside/outside hybrid types ... if you assume Worilds won't be back and Jarvis Jones could be used as a hybrid DE, then you've got a lineup that makes a lot of sense, and you're not left plugging holes at both LB and DT in addition to our house-on-fire situation in the defensive backfield. Maybe add one guy who can play DT - who wouldn't have to be the "once-every-three-years unblockable NT who goes in the top 10" kind of player - and you're good. Never quite understood why we were so married to a scheme when it was obvious we didn't have the players to make it work. Of course, it will only change when LeBeau decided to move on, but it's sounding like that could be any day.

while what you say is true , I think we have the guy on the roster who can and will fix this issue in McCullers its just going to have to be next year as this one is done , he got his feet wet this year and for us that is a big deal as rookies rarely play in this scheme / this team ... a full off seasons work and a full training camp / preseason and we will be ok at the Nose IMO ... that leaves us in a quandary with Heyward though , he is more of a rush upfield kind of guy , Tuitt is a prototypical 3-4 5 tech end that in some form or fashion got enamored with the pass rush but he could lock down the Aaron Smith role leaving us just to figure out what to do with Heyward ..... we will get back to that in a moment

I think we could put Mclendon out at the other end spot giving us a 3 man front of McLendon -McCullers and Tuitt ( pretty formidable front 3 IMO ...

this has been talked about at length before but still worthy of conversation IMO

now what if we rotated between fronts depending on down /distance / ( situational football )

we could line up in a 4-3 with McCullers and McLendon at DT with Jones and Heyward at DE

it is something we should look at moving forward , many teams employ a 2 base system and it works rather well for them ...

food for thought

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as a side note my main issue with this is you end up taking 2 of your best defender off the field in portions of the game in Tuitt and Heyward

[Chidi29]

I doubt McLendon is moving to end. He's really never played there. He's a NT and I don't envision a shift. McLendon did a fine job at nose. His play against the Ravens show that.

Heyward is our best DL in both phases. Feel like too many people are down on him. Like last year, the guy really took off the last quarter of the season. Budding star who plays a high percentage of snaps - more than most in the league. He's going to be out there as much as possible. Taking him off the field is a major subtraction.

[steelreserve]

while what you say is true , I think we have the guy on the roster who can and will fix this issue in McCullers its just going to have to be next year as this one is done , he got his feet wet this year and for us that is a big deal as rookies rarely play in this scheme / this team ... a full off seasons work and a full training camp / preseason and we will be ok at the Nose IMO ... that leaves us in a quandary with Heyward though , he is more of a rush upfield kind of guy , Tuitt is a prototypical 3-4 5 tech end that in some form or fashion got enamored with the pass rush but he could lock down the Aaron Smith role leaving us just to figure out what to do with Heyward ..... we will get back to that in a moment

I think we could put Mclendon out at the other end spot giving us a 3 man front of McLendon -McCullers and Tuitt ( pretty formidable front 3 IMO ...

this has been talked about at length before but still worthy of conversation IMO

now what if we rotated between fronts depending on down /distance / ( situational football )

we could line up in a 4-3 with McCullers and McLendon at DT with Jones and Heyward at DE

it is something we should look at moving forward , many teams employ a 2 base system and it works rather well for them ...

food for thought

- - - Updated - - -

as a side note my main issue with this is you end up taking 2 of your best defender off the field in portions of the game in Tuitt and Heyward


I like both of those ideas, but the problem is that I just don't know whether McCullers is going to be the strong NT we've been lacking for so long. He MIGHT be, but he might not be too. It's putting a lot of faith in a low-round pick who's still looking pretty raw; I'll be thrilled if it works out that way, but I am not fully counting on it.

A 4-3 setup would probably benefit McLendon the most; he always struck me as a guy who is not really a DE, and is in a bit over his head at NT, but would be a really good 4-3 defensive tackle.

I don't see a problem in getting your best players on the field in that configuration; if you just rotated guys in and out as you normally would, both Tuitt and Heyward should see plenty of action. I also think Tuitt fits the mold a guy who could play both DE in a 3-4 and DT in a 4-3, which makes that even more workable.

[MrPgh]

The NT position might not be ideal, but it's far better than the situation at CB.

[Craic]

I doubt McLendon is moving to end. He's really never played there. He's a NT and I don't envision a shift. McLendon did a fine job at nose. His play against the Ravens show that.

Heyward is our best DL in both phases. Feel like too many people are down on him. Like last year, the guy really took off the last quarter of the season. Budding star who plays a high percentage of snaps - more than most in the league. He's going to be out there as much as possible. Taking him off the field is a major subtraction.

This. He's probably the most consistently good lineman we have on the team right now.