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Lady Steel
12-14-2014, 11:16 PM
We can put the past two 8-8 seasons behind us! :applaudit:

Now it's onward and upward to the playoffs. :tt02:

st33lersguy
12-14-2014, 11:22 PM
If we miss the playoffs, all that means is no one gets fired and we get one of the worst draft picks (low draft pick without benefit of playoffs). Looking for more than just a winning season

SteelMayhem72
12-14-2014, 11:36 PM
Yeah we still gotta MAKE the playoffs.. just a winning season aint gonna cut it. We basically need to win the last 2

X-Terminator
12-14-2014, 11:47 PM
If we miss the playoffs, all that means is no one gets fired and we get one of the worst draft picks (low draft pick without benefit of playoffs). Looking for more than just a winning season

Yeah, and if they make the playoffs, no one still gets fired and they get an even worse draft pick.

You have been essentially rooting for the team to miss the playoffs all season. I mean, damn, I know you and a lot of other fans hate the coaching staff, but for crying out loud, they are in position to win their division in a transition year! Doesn't that even MEAN anything to anybody?

st33lersguy
12-14-2014, 11:58 PM
Yeah, and if they make the playoffs, no one still gets fired and they get an even worse draft pick.

You have been essentially rooting for the team to miss the playoffs all season. I mean, damn, I know you and a lot of other fans hate the coaching staff, but for crying out loud, they are in position to win their division in a transition year! Doesn't that even MEAN anything to anybody?

Look at the parentheses on my comment, low draft pick without the benefit of making the playoffs should have said something. Making the playoffs far and away trumps any benefit that may come from having a disastrous season. It is just that the worst case scenario for me as a fan would be to watch this team miss out on the playoffs by one game due to losses to the Bucs and Jets after what has happened the last 2 years

steelreserve
12-15-2014, 12:14 AM
Yeah, and if they make the playoffs, no one still gets fired and they get an even worse draft pick.

You have been essentially rooting for the team to miss the playoffs all season. I mean, damn, I know you and a lot of other fans hate the coaching staff, but for crying out loud, they are in position to win their division in a transition year! Doesn't that even MEAN anything to anybody?


Yes and no. It's good that they're exceeding everyone's expectations in what many thought was going to be another down year. But it's certainly not all roses.

I for one predicted them to go 10-6 and either win the division or get a wild card spot, based largely on strength of schedule and strength of the other teams competing for playoff spots. It was clear last offseason that we were going to play 14 games against weak divisions (NFC South, AFC South, and yes, the AFCN) and as it turned out, two of those divisions were historically bad. Then two more third-place teams from the AFC, which is itself in a weak spell. Our own division looks tougher than it is because those teams also got a lot of wins at the expense of soft opponents, but they all have at least one fatal flaw as well. When it comes down to it, all of that combined to help cover up some serious flaws on our team.

There's also the issue that I think a lot of this team's success comes from a handful of guys playing out of their minds and also doing a lot to compensate for our shortcomings. Ben, Brown, Bell, to some extent Bryant - what we get from them more or less determines the outcome of the game most days, and I'm not sure how much of that is coaching and how much is really strong individual performances from guys who may or may not actually NEED much coaching.

Mostly, you look at this team now compared to where it was a few years ago, and it's obvious that we've "lost a step" as a group. "Hard to be a Super Bowl contender every year," some will say ... "Well, we had a hell of head start and now we've lost it" is my response. Yes, it's good that we're doing well now, but let's face it, no one sees this team as a juggernaut, and rightfully so ... it's also hard to ignore the oodles of missteps that got us from Super Bowl contender to "transition year," or the fact that there have been three or four transition years in a row, and unless certain problems are addressed fast, there's likely to be another. Honestly, about 2012 should've been our "transition year" and the time when we started to see our shrewd moves from 2008-09 start to pay off. Oh yeah, whoops.

So yes ... they get a little credit, but I don't think our record is entirely coaching-staff magic and I am still not fully convinced we're headed in the right direction overall. Put together another strong season against tougher competition, or somehow get hot and make it to the Super Bowl, and I'll try to lose the skepticism. I'll be rooting for them regardless, of course, but still more than a bit wary.

fansince'76
12-15-2014, 12:22 AM
So yes ... they get a little credit, but I don't think our record is entirely coaching-staff magic and I am still not fully convinced we're headed in the right direction overall. Put together another strong season against tougher competition, or somehow get hot and make it to the Super Bowl, and I'll try to lose the skepticism. I'll be rooting for them regardless, of course, but still more than a bit wary.

I do - only because lately we tend to beat the crap out of "better teams." It's the bottom feeders we screw the pooch against. Hell, if it weren't for the damn Bucs and Jets games, we'd be 11-3 and playing for a first round bye right now.

We MUST address the secondary in this draft, though, and much earlier than the 5th round.

Craic
12-15-2014, 12:27 AM
With the Steelers, it just feels like historically, the first six games will be a wash. If we can go 3-3 or better, they almost always are aiming for the playoffs in the last 3-4 games, so I never get too down about this team until I see game seven.

With that said, I think we are definitely headed in the right direction, but it's going to be a two year climb until we're back on top, provided make some good choices on defense. I also want to see another RB to help carry the load.

X-Terminator
12-15-2014, 01:29 AM
Yes and no. It's good that they're exceeding everyone's expectations in what many thought was going to be another down year. But it's certainly not all roses.

I for one predicted them to go 10-6 and either win the division or get a wild card spot, based largely on strength of schedule and strength of the other teams competing for playoff spots. It was clear last offseason that we were going to play 14 games against weak divisions (NFC South, AFC South, and yes, the AFCN) and as it turned out, two of those divisions were historically bad. Then two more third-place teams from the AFC, which is itself in a weak spell. Our own division looks tougher than it is because those teams also got a lot of wins at the expense of soft opponents, but they all have at least one fatal flaw as well. When it comes down to it, all of that combined to help cover up some serious flaws on our team.

There's also the issue that I think a lot of this team's success comes from a handful of guys playing out of their minds and also doing a lot to compensate for our shortcomings. Ben, Brown, Bell, to some extent Bryant - what we get from them more or less determines the outcome of the game most days, and I'm not sure how much of that is coaching and how much is really strong individual performances from guys who may or may not actually NEED much coaching.

Mostly, you look at this team now compared to where it was a few years ago, and it's obvious that we've "lost a step" as a group. "Hard to be a Super Bowl contender every year," some will say ... "Well, we had a hell of head start and now we've lost it" is my response. Yes, it's good that we're doing well now, but let's face it, no one sees this team as a juggernaut, and rightfully so ... it's also hard to ignore the oodles of missteps that got us from Super Bowl contender to "transition year," or the fact that there have been three or four transition years in a row, and unless certain problems are addressed fast, there's likely to be another. Honestly, about 2012 should've been our "transition year" and the time when we started to see our shrewd moves from 2008-09 start to pay off. Oh yeah, whoops.

So yes ... they get a little credit, but I don't think our record is entirely coaching-staff magic and I am still not fully convinced we're headed in the right direction overall. Put together another strong season against tougher competition, or somehow get hot and make it to the Super Bowl, and I'll try to lose the skepticism. I'll be rooting for them regardless, of course, but still more than a bit wary.

Yeah, well none of that had anything to do with my point, but whatever. My point is the damn team is in a good position now despite all of its shortcomings, and instead of lamenting lost draft position and coaches being fired, let's just tag along for the ride and see what happens.

X-Terminator
12-15-2014, 01:31 AM
Look at the parentheses on my comment, low draft pick without the benefit of making the playoffs should have said something. Making the playoffs far and away trumps any benefit that may come from having a disastrous season. It is just that the worst case scenario for me as a fan would be to watch this team miss out on the playoffs by one game due to losses to the Bucs and Jets after what has happened the last 2 years

Well then sorry. It's just that all season long you've hoped that the team would tank so that they'd get a high draft pick and Tomlin/Colbert/Haley get fired.

steelreserve
12-15-2014, 02:12 AM
I do - only because lately we tend to beat the crap out of "better teams." It's the bottom feeders we screw the pooch against. Hell, if it weren't for the damn Bucs and Jets games, we'd be 11-3 and playing for a first round bye right now.

We MUST address the secondary in this draft, though, and much earlier than the 5th round.


Yeah, well none of that had anything to do with my point, but whatever. My point is the damn team is in a good position now despite all of its shortcomings, and instead of lamenting lost draft position and coaches being fired, let's just tag along for the ride and see what happens.

I'm not lamenting any of that; I just want to see them make it to the postseason, even as a 6 seed, and then hope they get on a roll. The "good team" has been showing up more often lately, so call it a little better than 50-50 to win each game, which means maybe one chance in 8 or 10 of winning the Super Bowl. That's better than I would've expected.

To get at your point, we're in a good position because three or four guys are carrying the team with career seasons and a ton of things broke our way. Not because of great management. I worry that those lucky breaks will make the people in charge will think we're better than we really are, think they can do no wrong, and once again look over some GLARING issues. They've done that five or six years in a row, so you'll excuse me if I remain skeptical despite some short-term success - which, by the way, is relatively modest compared to a lot of still-pretty-recent history.

Longer term, I really think Tomlin leaving is what's needed to get us in a position where we're not at the whim of luck all the time. That's what I mean - we COULD be 11-3, but we're not because it's a hand of blackjack every time we step on the field.

The odds of us both making the playoffs and Tomlin getting fired are about zero, so while we're here, I'm hoping we can make the most of a smash-and-grab opportunity while we have it ... but without a big change in thinking, I think next year then becomes a big dose of harsh reality.

Edman
12-15-2014, 02:21 AM
This team still needs to drop it's dead wood (Taylor, Troy) and fix the Defense.

This team is 9-5 and in the drivers seat in the playoffs, but that's only because we have guys on Offense having career years while the Defense holds on for dear life as best they can.

I don't know if I would consider the Steelers an all-around good "team". If the Defense was even remotely decent, we'd be set.

BIG_Ben2004
12-15-2014, 02:25 AM
Hey guys, new here but I've been a Steelers fan for years.

A few things I'd like to say. This team should be at least 10-4, honestly. Tampa Bay was in our grasp. Could have won the Jets game too. But, coulda woulda shoulda.

Heres the thing, every "test" we've had this season, we've passed. We beat the Colts, Ravens, Browns, Texans, Bengals. I for one really like where this team is going. This offense is really balanced. The defense is middle of the road, but their problems ARE fixable. With verteran leadership and a stellar offense, anything is possible. I like that we seem to be hitting a stride right before January. I believe If we win these next two, we could be a true force to be reckoned with. I hate watching this team sometimes because they frustrate me, but they've been more consistent in the back half of the season.

Ben is having a fantastic year, AB is AB, Bell is a monster, but how about contributions from Wheaton, Miller and Bryant? They're the key to the offense. When they're making plays, we can't be stopped.

Sorry I'm so scattered right now, but lastly, I was happy with the win today. Defense made the necessary stops, Big Play Willie Gay struck again, and they proved today that even if our running game gets stuffed we can still win. We're a very balanced offense. It took some miserable games to get to this point (Jets) but the offense seems to be hitting a stride. If we can tighten up the secondary a little more, (which was much better today) then we can definitely be a factor in the postseason.

fansince'76
12-15-2014, 04:09 AM
To get at your point, we're in a good position because three or four guys are carrying the team with career seasons and a ton of things broke our way.

Isn't that kinda the way it was in 2005 and 2008?

In 2005, we had our backs to the wall with a 7-5 record (sound familiar?) and wound up winning 8 in a row as a 6th seed on the road in the playoffs. And we won those 3 playoff games on the road because we abandoned Cowherball and turned our young franchise QB loose for the one and only time in Cowher's tenure that Ben was the QB and in so doing, completely surprised the Bengals, Colts and Denver. The Colts in particular didn't know what hit them and yet we still wound up needing "the tackle" to get past them and advance to the AFCCG in Denver that year.

In 2008, James Harrison was almost a force of nature unto himself, our defense overall had an historic year and has NEVER really come close to duplicating that level of performance over an entire season before or since, at least not in the last 2 or 3 decades, anyway. We also spent that entire season relying on Ben to be Ben and perform miracles at just the right time to overcome what was probably the WORST OL of any Super Bowl-winning team by far. Starks, Kemoeatu, Hartwig, Stapleton and Colon...what a pile of suck. Things falling just right? Harrison's pick-six against the Cardinals, anyone?

I guess my point is that the Steelers of recent history have ALWAYS been flawed. The only time I've ever watched the Steelers and never worried about upcoming opponents and knew we had games in the bag before we even played them when I was a kid and the team was still in the midst of its dynasty in the '70s. And I haven't felt this good about any offense we've fielded since then, either.

Do I think this team will win it all? Nope. I think our defense will be our Achilles' heel, ironically enough. However, if we get hot for 4 games and go on another offensive tear like we did against the Colts and Ravens earlier this season, who knows? But I do know a possible division championship and a playoff berth will be positive steps forward after the last two seasons.

steelreserve
12-15-2014, 04:36 AM
Isn't that kinda the way it was in 2005 and 2008?

In 2005, we had our backs to the wall with a 7-5 record (sound familiar?) and wound up winning 8 in a row as a 6th seed on the road in the playoffs. And we won those 3 playoff games on the road because we abandoned Cowherball and turned our young franchise QB loose for the one and only time in Cowher's tenure that Ben was the QB and in so doing, completely surprised the Bengals, Colts and Denver. The Colts in particular didn't know what hit them and yet we still wound up needing "the tackle" to get past them and advance to the AFCCG in Denver that year.

In 2008, James Harrison was almost a force of nature unto himself, our defense overall had an historic year and has NEVER really come close to duplicating that level of performance over an entire season before or since, at least not in the last 2 or 3 decades, anyway. We also spent that entire season relying on Ben to be Ben and perform miracles at just the right time to overcome what was probably the WORST OL of any Super Bowl-winning team by far. Starks, Kemoeatu, Hartwig, Stapleton and Colon...what a pile of suck. Things falling just right? Harrison's pick-six against the Cardinals, anyone?

I guess my point is that the Steelers of recent history have ALWAYS been flawed. The only time I've ever watched the Steelers and never worried about upcoming opponents and knew we had games in the bag before we even played them when I was a kid and the team was still in the midst of its dynasty in the '70s. And I haven't felt this good about any offense we've fielded since then, either.

Do I think this team will win it all? Nope. I think our defense will be our Achilles' heel, ironically enough. However, if we get hot for 4 games and go on another offensive tear like we did against the Colts and Ravens earlier this season, who knows? But I do know a possible division championship and a playoff berth will be positive steps forward after the last two seasons.


Garrr, it was way different then. In 2005 the team was loaded, but underachieving until they finally got their shit together any played like they should. I can't think of any major flaws on that team, in fact, people were wondering why they didn't win the Super Bowl the year before or after. In 2008, the defense was just nails - the best year out of that group, but not unexpected - and offensively we were at least OK. All the time, we had several Pro Bowl-caliber players on both sides of the ball and it had little to do with luck except for the inevitabilities of who was injured or off their game at a particular point. It wasn't like one guy or a handful of guys were carrying the entire team. Here, we've got Ben, Brown and Bell on offense and Timmons on defense, and that's about it.

I don't know about you, but I really feel the five years or so from 2004-08 were really a time when we should've won most games with the team we had, and it was pretty confidence-inspiring. Maybe not '70s Steelers inspiring or '80s 49ers inspiring, but enough to make you notice. It's a shame it petered out that quickly - I don't think it would've taken a lot to keep it going, just average to slightly-above-average smarts and average to slightly-above-average luck. Unfortunately, we've displayed neither of those, so now it's mostly luck. Like I said, I hope the smash-and-grab works.

fansince'76
12-15-2014, 04:57 AM
Garrr, it was way different then. In 2005 the team was loaded, but underachieving until they finally got their shit together any played like they should. I can't think of any major flaws on that team, in fact, people were wondering why they didn't win the Super Bowl the year before or after. In 2008, the defense was just nails - the best year out of that group, but not unexpected - and offensively we were at least OK. All the time, we had several Pro Bowl-caliber players on both sides of the ball and it had little to do with luck except for the inevitabilities of who was injured or off their game at a particular point. It wasn't like one guy or a handful of guys were carrying the entire team. Here, we've got Ben, Brown and Bell on offense and Timmons on defense, and that's about it.

I don't know about you, but I really feel the five years or so from 2004-08 were really a time when we should've won most games with the team we had, and it was pretty confidence-inspiring. Maybe not '70s Steelers inspiring or '80s 49ers inspiring, but enough to make you notice. It's a shame it petered out that quickly - I don't think it would've taken a lot to keep it going, just average to slightly-above-average smarts and average to slightly-above-average luck. Unfortunately, we've displayed neither of those, so now it's mostly luck. Like I said, I hope the smash-and-grab works.

IMO, our offensive weapons now are WAY better than the ones we had then, and it really isn't even close. Bell is a far better RB than Parker was and by 2005 Bettis was just along for the ride for the most part. And once Bryant and Wheaton really get their feet under them, watch out. I also think Ben is light years ahead of what he was as a QB then to boot. And our defense was almost as susceptible to a spread-it-out attack then as it is now. We've been getting eaten alive on defense by dink-and-dunk/spread attacks on a fairly regular basis since 2002 when Rich Gannon tore us a new one.

2004 - Peaked too early. After completely kicking ass against the Patriots and Eagles on successive weekends in late October, we kinda waned down the stretch.
2005 - already mentioned
2006 - Ben took a header into a Buick and Cowher mailed it in
2007 - Tomlin overworked the guys in TC trying to establish himself as the new HC and the team hit the wall in December
2008 - already mentioned

GBMelBlount
12-15-2014, 05:47 AM
Fansince76

IMO, our offensive weapons now are WAY better than the ones we had then, and it really isn't even close

Ben has his first well above average line and is closing in on a 5000 yard season.

I think if we add a piece or two to the defense and the young players progress this team may be good enough for Ben to go out on top.

9 - 5.

I'll take it! :whoo:

zulater
12-15-2014, 08:56 AM
While I'm glad the Steelers have righted the ship and put themselves in position to win the division. I can't help but to lament the fact they were gifted a schedule that should have given them the inside tract to the AFC's one seed. Consider the Steelers didn't play one out of division road game against a team on the north side of .500. The only team in the league that can make that claim in fact. So unless they finish it off and go 11-5 and win the division I have to be a little more reserved than to get excited by a winning season.

vader29
12-15-2014, 09:08 AM
Yeah we still gotta MAKE the playoffs.. just a winning season aint gonna cut it. We basically need to win the last 2



Steelers Clinch Wildcard if They Beat Chiefs

--- The Steelers would clinch a wild-card playoff spot if they beat Kansas City at Heinz Field Sunday.

That would put them at 9-5 and have a worst-case 10-6 record. Only Baltimore and Cincinnati could finish with better records and even if both win out one would win the division title and put the other in the wildcard playoff spot.

The second wildcard would go to the team with the best 10-6 record with the tiebreakers.

That would go to the Steelers at 10-6 even in a three-way tie and even if the Steelers and Baltimore tie at 10-6. Only Buffalo and San Diego outside of their division can finish as high as 10-6 (the Chiefs would lose their seventh game to the Steelers Sunday) and the Steelers have the better conference record than both of them, even if they lose to Cincinnati. Conference record is the first tiebreaker after head-to-head and the Steelers have not played Buffalo or San Diego.

So beating the Chiefs on Sunday would give the Steelers a wildcard playoff spot. If they win their final two games, they are AFC North Division champs with an opening round game at home.

http://sportsblogs.post-gazette.com/sports/steelers-steelers-blog/2014/12/15/Steelers-Clinch-Wildcard-if-They-Beat-Chiefs/stories/201412150001

Mojouw
12-15-2014, 09:31 AM
Winning record and a chance to control your own playoff fate in an obvious rebuild year? I will take that anytime.

Who really cares about the seeding anyway. Get into the tournament and you have a chance.

Multiple recent SB winners have come from the Wildcard spot.

GBMelBlount
12-15-2014, 10:12 AM
Winning record and a chance to control your own playoff fate in an obvious rebuild year? I will take that anytime.

Who really cares about the seeding anyway. Get into the tournament and you have a chance.

Multiple recent SB winners have come from the Wildcard spot.

Absolutely!

It's all about peaking at the right time in today's nfl.

steelreserve
12-15-2014, 11:08 AM
While I'm glad the Steelers have righted the ship and put themselves in position to win the division. I can't help but to lament the fact they were gifted a schedule that should have given them the inside tract to the AFC's one seed. Consider the Steelers didn't play one out of division road game against a team on the north side of .500. The only team in the league that can make that claim in fact. So unless they finish it off and go 11-5 and win the division I have to be a little more reserved than to get excited by a winning season.


Take a look at this and it becomes a bit more clear ...

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-football/24446032/nfl-strength-of-schedule-raiders-at-no-1-colts-at-no-32


Basically, there are three leagues this year. One with the AFCN and the AFC South that's a cupcake schedule all around, another with the AFC West and NFC West where the good teams beat the dogshit out of each other, and then the medium league of everybody else with the Packers, Patriots, Cowboys and Eagles looking the best.

As for our sudden offensive dominance, take a look at this ... any of the teams toward the bottom look familiar? I mean, holy shit, it is hard to get luckier than that:

http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/team/_/stat/total/position/defense


It's nice that we're winning the cake walk, but let's call it for what it is. We've basically played one good team all year, the Colts, and even they probably look better on paper than they actually are, for the same reason we do.

In summary: Nice break for us this year, but I am under no illusion that winning 9 games means our problems are fixed, or even close to it.

fansince'76
12-15-2014, 12:55 PM
In summary: Nice break for us this year, but I am under no illusion that winning 9 games means our problems are fixed, or even close to it.

Who's making that claim? Outside of Timmons and Heyward, the defense is largely a train wreck and I see nobody claiming otherwise. And if Jarvis Jones and Shamarko Thomas don't start showing something soon, we're in an even bigger pickle in that regard.

X-Terminator
12-15-2014, 01:24 PM
And to think, all of this started with me simply saying that the team is where they are despite all of their issues. We have to get a damn dissertation after the fact, or do everything possible to discredit it because they played a soft schedule. We've gone from "we didn't win good enough" to "the winning record isn't good enough because of the competition."

As I've said many times in the past, the Steelers can only play the games on their schedule. They have ZERO control over how good or bad the teams are, or make up their own schedule that only has good teams on it.

Listen peeps, NO ONE is saying that because they have a winning record that the problems are fixed. Far from it. But they are 9-5 and in position to make the playoffs and possibly win the division. If you can't be happy with that, especially in light of how this season began, then maybe you need to re-think things a bit.

Count Steeler
12-15-2014, 01:26 PM
We are a middle of the road team. If Ben gets hot, watch out, especially with a half way decent O Line.

If he doesn't, the defense won't save us this year. So we may be 1 and done, or if we host the 1st game, we may win that one.

I am not disillusioned, we need to keep building this team, but making the playoffs this year is one tick off the checklist.

polamalubeast
12-15-2014, 01:39 PM
I could be wrong, but the Steelers are still far from being a Super Bowl contender since their defense is completely atrocious.....The defense has no strength...No run defense,no pass defense and no pass rush....

86WARD
12-15-2014, 01:42 PM
Past Super Bowl Winners with a crappy defense...

X-Terminator
12-15-2014, 01:45 PM
I could be wrong, but the Steelers are still far from being a Super Bowl contender since their defense is completely atrocious.....The defense has no strength...No run defense,no pass defense and no pass rush....

No one thought the Giants or Ravens were serious SB contenders either as WC teams, and yet, both won titles. The 2005 Steelers weren't really thought of as a contender either - they were the underdog in every AFC playoff game. Yet, they were the ones hoisting the Lombardi Trophy.

All you need to do is get into the show. After that, absolutely anything can happen.

polamalubeast
12-15-2014, 01:45 PM
Past Super Bowl Winners with a crappy defense...

No.

Maybe the Giants in 2011, but they had a great pass rush

The saints in 2009 was great to create turnovers

GBMelBlount
12-15-2014, 01:49 PM
Anything can happen in the playoffs...just have to get there...

Please Steelers, don't screw the pooch this weekend. :pop2:

polamalubeast
12-15-2014, 01:53 PM
No one thought the Giants or Ravens were serious SB contenders either as WC teams, and yet, both won titles. The 2005 Steelers weren't really thought of as a contender either - they were the underdog in every AFC playoff game. Yet, they were the ones hoisting the Lombardi Trophy.

All you need to do is get into the show. After that, absolutely anything can happen.




I would like to be wrong, but I do not believe...The Steelers will have to beat the Patriots and/or Broncos this year and last year against the Patriots, the Steelers have allowed 55 points and 600 yards against the pats and this year, the defense is worse than in 2013

In 2005, the Steelers were a favorite against the Bengals, light underdog against the broncos and favorite against Seattle...Only the win against the Colts were a big upset


But it is true that the 2007 Giants were highly unlikely....Probably the most unlikely champion of all sports since a very long time

X-Terminator
12-15-2014, 02:12 PM
I would like to be wrong, but I do not believe...The Steelers will have to beat the Patriots and/or Broncos this year and last year against the Patriots, the Steelers have allowed 55 points and 600 yards against the pats and this year, the defense is worse than in 2013

In 2005, the Steelers were a favorite against the Bengals, light underdog against the broncos and favorite against Seattle...Only the win against the Colts were a big upset


But it is true that the 2007 Giants were highly unlikely....Probably the most unlikely champion of all sports since a very long time

Yes, it would be unlikely they get to the Super Bowl. But it's not an impossibility. That's what I'm saying.

steel striker
12-15-2014, 02:33 PM
Like X said make the show and, anything can happen. If Ben gets hot and, the oline can hold up look out.

Bluecoat96
12-15-2014, 03:25 PM
I think of the 2006 Colts and their horrific run defense during the regular season. Once they hit the playoffs (and got Bob Sanders back) they played light out. Who knows what will happen if the Steelers make it?

Count Steeler
12-15-2014, 03:38 PM
I'll take a 51-49 SB victory.

zulater
12-15-2014, 04:01 PM
Like X said make the show and, anything can happen. If Ben gets hot and, the oline can hold up look out.


Got to make it first. As recent history tells us this team is every bit as capable of shitting the bed and losing the last two as it is of any other remaining possible finish. Not trying to rain on the parade, but we all know with this Steeler team that can't be ruled out.

Lady Steel
12-15-2014, 11:09 PM
Well, nobody is going to rain on my parade because I'm very excited we've had a winning season, and I'm going to enjoy it. I believe this team can make the playoffs and win the division.




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZbZSe6N_BXs

GoSlash27
12-16-2014, 04:38 AM
For me, the goal every year is 1) to not have a losing record and 2)to make the playoffs.
I'm easy like that...

Mission #1 accomplished and #2 is within our grasp. That's good enough for me.
Having said that... while I'm hopeful we will make the playoffs, I'm very concerned about our secondary.

Hawkman
12-16-2014, 08:33 AM
I am solo glad that the Rooney's run this ORG and not others.....because I'm thinking they know how to do it.....RIGHT!!!

steel9guy
12-16-2014, 09:26 PM
I know we looked bad and all on defense but you never know. If we get hot and the D gels right now then look out. I still don't trust this team or the coaching but to be 9-5 with the losses they have is really impressive.

Steelerette
12-17-2014, 09:19 AM
The team is so bewildering.

I admit I've had bouts of wanting to see Tomlin go, but it's not going to happen with anything better than 6-10, and he'll get his extension I guarantee it. He's an above average coach who happens to be terrible in two regards: having the players mentally prepared... and clock management in crucial moments.

That second issue, I don't know, not a big deal with a new coach but he's had enough years of the issue not improving now. What do you do, hire a clock coach or something to hang out beside Tomlin. Or even just suck it up.

But what do you do about that first issue?

_

Colbert is a mixed bag too. I have news for his haters: Other teams make bad draft picks too. But Colbert isn't all roses either and there's a lot of nuance to his problems. The biggest of which is that our drafts often seem epic on paper right after the fact, but we get the high fail rate anyways. So who's responsible for that? Colbert? Coaching? Positional development coaches? Scouting? You've also got to wonder just who it is making the call that "we're good on cornerbacks" for instance. If you're Colbert, and you've got Dick LeBeau and Carnell Lake telling you "we're good on cornerbacks, trust" -- do you pick one high anyways? Isn't that the kind of thing that put a wedge between Donahoe and Cowher? So what's better, trusting your coaches, or organizational instability...

So while I've been downright mad at Colbert at times, he's not operating in a vacuum either.

_

Haley + Munchak + Saxon = love. (You'd be a fool not to give Saxon a spot on that pedestal IMO)

_

Here's the rub. Coaching staff probably knew they were looking at a transition year. Shazier + Tuitt was the right call. Get them used to the system. Get your cornerbacks *this* offseason... cornerbacks are much easier to "plug n' play" - so put them in behind a competent defensive front that kinda knows what it's doing. Maybe that was even the plan all along and the "we're good with CBs" was a brilliant PR ploy to give that D-line a transition year first. They anticipated the public reaction to this year's CBs but were planning on addressing it this offseason anyway - we can hope.

_

Still not happy about motivation levels to begin the season and against bad teams. I'll be looking for some cautious turnover on the training staff... though don't blow it up. While it hadn't been beautiful we didn't get the complete circus of injuries like the past few seasons, so progress maybe.

_

What's clear is that a lot of pieces are in place. Next season I expect us to be spanking bad teams, instead of losing to them.

polamalubeast
12-17-2014, 09:25 AM
Tomlin's contract ends after the 2016 season

I would wait after the 2015 season to give an extension to Tomlin unless the steelers go to the AFC title game this year

steelreserve
12-17-2014, 11:56 AM
I admit I've had bouts of wanting to see Tomlin go, but it's not going to happen with anything better than 6-10, and he'll get his extension I guarantee it. He's an above average coach who happens to be terrible in two regards: having the players mentally prepared... and clock management in crucial moments ... and talent evaluation in the draft ... and player development, which is why most of our draft picks rarely get any better ... and having focus rather than "swagger" ... and actually having control of the team rather than delegating everything to his assistants ... and being able to stand up to or overrule anyone in the organization including his own assistants ... and having any kind of vision at all for the defense, especially as a "defensive coach" ...


I added a few for you, in case you forgot. But other than that, sure, he's a great coach.

fansince'76
12-17-2014, 12:14 PM
Maybe we shoulda hired Whiz...or Rivera...

86WARD
12-17-2014, 12:24 PM
I'd take them both over Tomlin...lol.

fansince'76
12-17-2014, 12:27 PM
I'd take them both over Tomlin...lol.

Not surprising, really.

I do find it ironic that a guy that many Steelers fans claimed wasn't smart enough to coach a Pop Warner team has taken a team that was "built by Whisenhunt" and is getting better results with it than Whisenhunt himself ever did. Many of the same ones who have claimed for years that Whisenhunt (who is well on his way to completely running a second team under his charge into the ground in Nashville) should have gotten the job over Tomlin on the basis of a freak Super Bowl appearance that occurred mostly because Fitzgerald was playing out of his mind.

What I'm saying is that maybe Steelers fans aren't exactly the best judges when it comes to coaches...

steelreserve
12-17-2014, 12:35 PM
Not surprising, really.

I do find it ironic that a guy that many Steelers fans claimed wasn't smart enough to coach a Pop Warner team has taken a team "built by Whisenhunt" and is getting better results with it than Whisenhunt himself ever did. Many of the same ones who have claimed for years that Whisenhunt (who is well on his way to running a second team under his charge into the ground in Nashville) should have gotten the job over Tomlin on the basis of a freak Super Bowl appearance that occurred mostly because Fitzgerald was playing out of his mind.

What I'm saying is that maybe Steelers fans aren't exactly the best judge when it comes to coaches...


If you're talking about Arians, he's apparently the reverse Norv Turner - shitty coordinator, but good head coach. I'll be the first to admit I didn't see that coming.

But not being able to predict the future is a hell of a lot different from actually watching a guy fuck up for several years in a row and finally saying you've had enough of his bullshit. You'd need to know more than the average fan if you were the one hiring a new coach, but figuring out when someone sucks is not rocket science.

Mojouw
12-17-2014, 12:38 PM
Some interesting stats and thoughts on Tomlin -- http://www.behindthesteelcurtain.com/pittsburgh-steelers-opinions-reactions-news-updates/2014/12/14/7391619/steelers-playoffs-mike-tomlin-record

Also some perspective on the team;s play-off chances -- http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2300633-steelers-are-our-only-hope-for-breaking-the-afcs-patriots-broncos-logjam

It seems that those outside of Pittsburgh have a more positive view on the roster, the staff, the direction, and the prospects of the team.

fansince'76
12-17-2014, 12:39 PM
If you're talking about Arians, he's apparently the reverse Norv Turner - shitty coordinator, but good head coach. I'll be the first to admit I didn't see that coming.

But not being able to predict the future is a hell of a lot different from actually watching a guy fuck up for several years in a row and finally saying you've had enough of his bullshit. You'd need to know more than the average fan if you were the one hiring a new coach, but figuring out when someone sucks is not rocket science.

I'm also saying that many Steelers fans were wrong about Whisenhunt. They were also wrong about Rivera. I also submit we'd be no better off with either of them in charge than Tomlin.

polamalubeast
12-17-2014, 12:40 PM
Bruce Arians is maybe not the best OC, but he's a winner

Arians has even been in the playoffs in 2002 with the browns(The Browns!!!!), which is very impressive and he almost won a shootout against the Steelers in the playoffs!

steelreserve
12-17-2014, 12:52 PM
I'm also saying that many Steelers fans were wrong about Whisenhunt. They were also wrong about Rivera. I also submit we'd be no better off with either of them in charge than Tomlin.

Probably true, but the same idea. Predicting who's going to be a good coach in the future is hard. Knowing when a guy is fucking up right in front of you is easy. I wouldn't claim to be knowledgeable about "who would we hire," but I'm fully confident that "we need someone else besides this jackass" is the right call.



Some interesting stats and thoughts on Tomlin -- http://www.behindthesteelcurtain.com/pittsburgh-steelers-opinions-reactions-news-updates/2014/12/14/7391619/steelers-playoffs-mike-tomlin-record

Also some perspective on the team;s play-off chances -- http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2300633-steelers-are-our-only-hope-for-breaking-the-afcs-patriots-broncos-logjam

It seems that those outside of Pittsburgh have a more positive view on the roster, the staff, the direction, and the prospects of the team.


People outside of Pittsburgh tend to follow the team a lot less and see surface issues. A lot of them are the same ones who were saying the retirement of Hines Ward and Aaron Smith were huge losses, when in reality anyone who followed the team closely knew they hadn't made much impact in recent years anyway. The article is pretty much right on about our immediate chances for this year - "deeply flawed but dangerous." But there are important elements - such as the fact that many of our problems stem from institutional stubbornness and general shitheadedness - that the outside observer is probably not going to look deep enough to catch.

Mojouw
12-17-2014, 12:58 PM
If you're talking about Arians, he's apparently the reverse Norv Turner - shitty coordinator, but good head coach. I'll be the first to admit I didn't see that coming.

But not being able to predict the future is a hell of a lot different from actually watching a guy fuck up for several years in a row and finally saying you've had enough of his bullshit. You'd need to know more than the average fan if you were the one hiring a new coach, but figuring out when someone sucks is not rocket science.

Arians made a 4000+ yard passer out of Kelly Holcombe, and was a better offensive coordinator than he gets credit for. His most typical critique is that he sucked at running the ball and fell in love with the deep pass. Look at these #'s : http://www.pro-football-reference.com/coaches/AriaBr0.htm

If I'm reading this right, he actually ranked 3, 9, 18, 8, 19 in rushing attempts. His biggest problem was in scoring points, particularly in the red zone - something that still plagues this team.


Also another fun bit - -Mike Tonlin's challenges in all their glory -- http://www.pro-football-reference.com/coaches/TomlMi0.htm

For the sake of comparison here is the evil emperor's -- http://www.pro-football-reference.com/coaches/BeliBi0.htm

Mojouw
12-17-2014, 01:05 PM
Probably true, but the same idea. Predicting who's going to be a good coach in the future is hard. Knowing when a guy is fucking up right in front of you is easy. I wouldn't claim to be knowledgeable about "who would we hire," but I'm fully confident that "we need someone else besides this jackass" is the right call.





People outside of Pittsburgh tend to follow the team a lot less and see surface issues. A lot of them are the same ones who were saying the retirement of Hines Ward and Aaron Smith were huge losses, when in reality anyone who followed the team closely knew they hadn't made much impact in recent years anyway. The article is pretty much right on about our immediate chances for this year - "deeply flawed but dangerous." But there are important elements - such as the fact that many of our problems stem from institutional stubbornness and general shitheadedness - that the outside observer is probably not going to look deep enough to catch.

And people too close to the team (meaning those of us here!) likely look at things too closely and get wrapped up in small details -- making mountains out of molehills. Stepping back and taking a larger view -- 2012 was the final nail in the coffin of the previous SB core. 2013 was the 1st season in a multi-year rebuild. 2014 is the second and 2015 will likely be the completion of it.

So having a winning record in year 2 of a massive roster overhaul, salary cap issues, a youth movement, and talent gaps -- what more can you hope for as a fan? This roster basically cratered in 2012 and the worst it got was two years of 8-8? And 2 seasons later, respectable football people are talking about this team as the 3 seed in the AFC playoffs and having the potential to challenge the Broncos and the Pats. There are @ least 28 other franchises that would kill for that level of stubborness and shitheadedness.

And I realize that the roster would never have cratered if the 08 and 09 draft classes didn't stink, but not everything can be sunshine and rainbows.

polamalubeast
12-17-2014, 01:09 PM
I do not think the Steelers can challenge the Broncos or Patriots this year....Not with that defense

Mojouw
12-17-2014, 01:10 PM
I do not think the Steelers can challenge the Broncos or Patriots this year....Not with that defense

They can certainly put enough points on the board to make it interesting. That is something that none of the other AFC contenders can do.

86WARD
12-17-2014, 01:19 PM
Not surprising, really.

I do find it ironic that a guy that many Steelers fans claimed wasn't smart enough to coach a Pop Warner team has taken a team that was "built by Whisenhunt" and is getting better results with it than Whisenhunt himself ever did. Many of the same ones who have claimed for years that Whisenhunt (who is well on his way to completely running a second team under his charge into the ground in Nashville) should have gotten the job over Tomlin on the basis of a freak Super Bowl appearance that occurred mostly because Fitzgerald was playing out of his mind.

What I'm saying is that maybe Steelers fans aren't exactly the best judges when it comes to coaches...

Yeah. I'm not saying Whisenhunt or Rivera are much better than Tomlin, I just know exactly what garbage we have in Tomlin and at this stage, I'd rather have the other garbage than this garbage...lol.

polamalubeast
12-17-2014, 01:21 PM
They can certainly put enough points on the board to make it interesting. That is something that none of the other AFC contenders can do.

The offense would need to be almost perfect, because I do not think the defense will do a lot of stop.And be perfect, it's very hard to do, especially than the defense of the pats and broncos is very good this year


I think the Ravens have a better chance because they have a very good pass rush and their offense is balanced....Of course their CB is terrible but this is the same thing for the steelers, but at least the ravens have a pass rush

Mojouw
12-17-2014, 01:25 PM
The offense would need to be almost perfect, because I do not think the defense will do a lot of stop.And be perfect, it's very hard to do, especially than the defense of the pats and broncos is very good this year


I think the Ravens have a better chance because they have a very good pass rush and their offense is balanced....Of course their CB is terrible but this is the same thing for the steelers, but at least the ravens have a pass rush

If the Pats and the Broncos have a better defense than Pittsburgh and better offenses, what in the world will they do to Ravens team that couldn't stop the Steelers or move the ball against them? Flacco in a shoot-out? Does anyone really trust that?

Mojouw
12-17-2014, 01:31 PM
Yeah. I'm not saying Whisenhunt or Rivera are much better than Tomlin, I just know exactly what garbage we have in Tomlin and at this stage, I'd rather have the other garbage than this garbage...lol.

Based on what? Rivera can't coach his way out of a paper bag and Whiz is running his second franchise into the ground.

Take a look at both rosters (http://www.panthers.com/team/roster.html and http://www.titansonline.com/team/roster.html) and then look at the Steelers roster and tell me which of the 3 teams is better suited to enter a period of contention.

The Panthers are Kuechly, the suddenly ineffective Charles Johnson, Cam, and Benjamin with a "bunch of just a guy" types rounding out the roster. The Titans are in even worse shape.

polamalubeast
12-17-2014, 01:34 PM
If the Pats and the Broncos have a better defense than Pittsburgh and better offenses, what in the world will they do to Ravens team that couldn't stop the Steelers or move the ball against them? Flacco in a shoot-out? Does anyone really trust that?

The two games between the steelers and ravens were very different this year

One game the Steelers scored 43 points, the other games it was 6 points!

I think that the Ravens can beat the Broncos or pats, but the Ravens have a pass rush, which the Steelers not have.And when you have no pass rush against Manning or Brady, you'll get destroy, as it was the case last year in the game between Steelers-Patriots

Texasteel
12-17-2014, 01:34 PM
Gay has been playing better of late, even though I still see him as a valuable nickel back not a starter, and the young CBs seem to be improving, even though I think they should never see the field as starters. If we can give them help in the form of a pass rush they could do well enough to win in the playoffs, provided our offense can give them a descent lead. Our offense has shown it can be an explosive ofinse and still control the ball in long drives. I still think the these games will depend on the play of both lines. We will need a good game on both sides of the ball, but yes, once in the playoff I think we can win.

fansince'76
12-17-2014, 01:42 PM
Yeah. I'm not saying Whisenhunt or Rivera are much better than Tomlin, I just know exactly what garbage we have in Tomlin and at this stage, I'd rather have the other garbage than this garbage...lol.

Fair enough. I know there are better HCs than Tomlin out there as well.

steelreserve
12-17-2014, 05:22 PM
And people too close to the team (meaning those of us here!) likely look at things too closely and get wrapped up in small details -- making mountains out of molehills. Stepping back and taking a larger view -- 2012 was the final nail in the coffin of the previous SB core. 2013 was the 1st season in a multi-year rebuild. 2014 is the second and 2015 will likely be the completion of it.

So having a winning record in year 2 of a massive roster overhaul, salary cap issues, a youth movement, and talent gaps -- what more can you hope for as a fan? This roster basically cratered in 2012 and the worst it got was two years of 8-8? And 2 seasons later, respectable football people are talking about this team as the 3 seed in the AFC playoffs and having the potential to challenge the Broncos and the Pats. There are @ least 28 other franchises that would kill for that level of stubborness and shitheadedness.

And I realize that the roster would never have cratered if the 08 and 09 draft classes didn't stink, but not everything can be sunshine and rainbows.


Well, point taken, but my opinion of Tomlin is still that he has serious flaws and those are reflected in the team. Things could be far worse, that's for sure, I just think we could do better, and my optimism from this winning season is tempered by the fact that I think we got an artificial one-time boost. I hope that doesn't cause us to get too full of ourselves.

Mojouw
12-17-2014, 05:31 PM
Well, point taken, but my opinion of Tomlin is still that he has serious flaws and those are reflected in the team. Things could be far worse, that's for sure, I just think we could do better, and my optimism from this winning season is tempered by the fact that I think we got an artificial one-time boost. I hope that doesn't cause us to get too full of ourselves.

I can see that too. What can this team accomplish with (potentially) a division winner's schedule? Who knows.

I guess I keep coming back to the fact that I don't see a ton of HC's out there that are really doing a measurably better job. There are some, but not more than 1 in 4. What I do see is a high # of HC's doing a far WORSE job. That is what scares me when I hear the calls for firing Tomlin.

zulater
12-17-2014, 10:29 PM
I've seen good and bad with Tomlin. I think the job he did in 2009 was the single worst by a Steeler coach since Bill Austin back in 68. Conversely I thought the job he did navigating through Ben's suspension and so forth in getting the Steelers to the SB in 2010 was among the best single season coaching jobs I ever witnessed by a Steeler coach. This year I've seen elements of both those seasons. I guess I wont go any further with this until we see how the season plays out.

Steelerette
12-18-2014, 11:25 AM
I can see that too. What can this team accomplish with (potentially) a division winner's schedule? Who knows.Heh we'd go 15-1 or something. We only play down to lousy teams. :P It's almost like we're a rock band, but all we got are greatest hits right now. So we can out-spectacularize the big boys... but the Jets? They're Hall & Oates. And they just keep on persisting... even though they kinda suck we don't have the constitution to hold it back.

You got to be a hard-ass to handle the Hall & Oates.