Heroes & Goats vs Falcons

[Edman]

Steelers get over their bug and beat a losing team on the road.

8-8 is no more. Fire Mike Tomlin!

The Heroes: The usual. Ben had a deadly efficient excellent game, even though the stats don't show. Brown was Brown. Bell was silenced on the ground, but still did his damage through the air.

Vince Williams with the HUGE tackle to stop the Atlanta threat.

Big Play Willie Gay for the pick 6.

Goats: Secondary, of course. But it's a given. Matt Ryan and the Falcons in the dome.

[polamalubeast]

Ben and Brown

[Count Steeler]

Kudos to Gay for the pick 6.

Ben and Brown as usual. Haley has to have a plan B for the running game when a team sells out to stop it up the middle. Play action and/or sweeps.

[polamalubeast]

Kudos to Gay for the pick 6.

He has 3 TD this year!!!

[ALLD]

Gb loses to the Bills 21-13. Rogers, first career game 2 INTs and 0 TDs. Not so amazing after all.

Give the game ball to Billy Gay for the pivotal Pick 6 that the team built upon.

[polamalubeast]

Gb loses to the Bills 21-13. Rogers, first career game 2 INTs and 0 TDs. Not so amazing after all.

Give the game ball to Billy Gay for the pivotal Pick 6 that the team built upon.


The bills defense is great!....Manning was not good against this defense last week too

[st33lersguy]

Game Balls: Ben, don't win without him. AB, don't win without him. Gay, pick six that was the difference. Wheaton, made some big plays. Todd Haley, great call at the end.

Goats: The rest of the pass defense is an obvious one. Bell, picked up minimal yards, should have picked up more. O-line, poor run-blocking. The refs, they were HORRIBLE.

[Dwinsgames]

27-35-360 yards NO TURNOVERS .... there is your MVP today

[tube517]

Game ball Willie G. : 8 Tackles, pick 6. Ben and AB, of course

Goat: The refs

[HollywoodSteel]

Game Balls: Ben, don't win without him. AB, don't win without him. Gay, pick six that was the difference. Wheaton, made some big plays. Todd Haley, great call at the end.

Goats: The rest of the pass defense is an obvious one. Bell, picked up minimal yards, should have picked up more. O-line, poor run-blocking. The refs, they were HORRIBLE.

I will give Haley some props as well for his 4th quarter play calling. Once he was done with that shotgun draw he called a nice, ballsy but appropriately so, game. If you know they are selling out to stop the run (with a banged up secondary to boot) play action is a great weapon. In fact, it's always a great weapon for us. We don't need to establish the run to do it. We've established the run for the season. It's not like people aren't afraid of Bell.

Anyway, just wanted to give Haley some love since I am usually one of his detractors.

[Steeltreal]

Can a Ref be a Goat? Give me fukin break when a Linebacker cant sack a QB clean Period. Lot of other bonehead calls on both teams, just smh Wow

[86WARD]

Gay, Ben, Bell get game balls.

The O-Line gets the goats for me. When the Falcons get a sack rushing 3 and the Steelers have 6 in blocking...there's a problem. The line, at times was just collapsing almost as fast as the ball going from Pouncey to Ben.

[Hawkman]

Gay....made the difference, had the first TD of the game, and worked hard to get in the Endzone, (watch it back on film). Also he was inspired. Made tackles all over the field.

[GoSlash27]

A win and I'll take it, but I'm *very* concerned about our secondary.

Game balls to the entire receiving corps. They had some drops, but even those weren't due to mistakes on their part.

Honorary game ball to Todd Haley. Time for him to get some props.

[stillers4me]

544250680090066944

[fansince'76]

I will give Haley some props as well for his 4th quarter play calling.

Not me. We should have been gashing them with plays like the 25-yard game-icer to Heath all afternoon, considering they spent the entire game selling out to stop the run. They should have been made to pay much more dearly for loading the box with 8 and 9 guys all day. That's how you stopped the 2001 Steelers. But what did we do for most of the game? Runs up the middle and draws on first down and often on second down as well. :frusty:

I'm happy for the win, but no way should it have been as close as it was.

[Hawkman]

Steelers did everything they had to do to beat a team they should, including that third and one at the end of the game, I don't know who called it and I don't care, but it was one of the best "nail-in-the-coffin", plays, that I've seen in a while.

[Shoes]

Will Gay. O should have had 2 TD's in the RZ and came away with 6 points.

[ALLD]

Not me. We should have been gashing them with plays like the 25-yard game-icer to Heath all afternoon, considering they spent the entire game selling out to stop the run. They should have been made to pay much more dearly for loading the box with 8 and 9 guys all day. That's how you stopped the 2001 Steelers. But what did we do for most of the game? Runs up the middle and draws on first down and often on second down as well. :frusty:

I'm happy for the win, but no way should it have been as close as it was.

Good call. Looks like the Falcons game planned for Bell's running, but we just went in there with a handful of scripted plays. Didn't even go back much to the 3 TE package which was a guarantee against a better D last week.

[HollywoodSteel]

Not me. We should have been gashing them with plays like the 25-yard game-icer to Heath all afternoon, considering they spent the entire game selling out to stop the run. They should have been made to pay much more dearly for loading the box with 8 and 9 guys all day. That's how you stopped the 2001 Steelers. But what did we do for most of the game? Runs up the middle and draws on first down and often on second down as well. :frusty:

I'm happy for the win, but no way should it have been as close as it was.

I actually agree with you, but it's funny how expectations can influence me. Given what I expected of Haley at the point, he surprised me with his willingness to read the situation for what it was (eventually) and do what was necessary. We needed to be bold at a certain point and use play action as a weapon to seal this win. I'm so used to us turtling and losing these types of games that perhaps I get overly praisey when we actually game plan correctly within a game. It gives me hope...

... but hope is dangerous because, man, my Steelers love to get my hopes up just to dash them against the jagged rocks of reality. I know those rocks are coming, but knowing isn't gonna make it hurt any less when they rip me to shreds.

But that aside, woo-hoo!! Here's me enjoying the win!

[86WARD]

Not me. We should have been gashing them with plays like the 25-yard game-icer to Heath all afternoon, considering they spent the entire game selling out to stop the run. They should have been made to pay much more dearly for loading the box with 8 and 9 guys all day. That's how you stopped the 2001 Steelers. But what did we do for most of the game? Runs up the middle and draws on first down and often on second down as well. :frusty:

I'm happy for the win, but no way should it have been as close as it was.

Agree. Ben should've had close to 450 yards this game.

[zulater]

Can a Ref be a Goat? Give me fukin break when a Linebacker cant sack a QB clean Period. Lot of other bonehead calls on both teams, just smh Wow


The refs are an embarrassment. But some went against us and some went our way. At the end of the game, the play action pass to Heath that clinched it, should have been called back. Ramon foster clearly moved before the snap. :doh: Don't know how they missed it? But thankful all the same that they did.

[Merchant]

I remember a few years back when everyone, including me, was ripping on William Gay. And now he's our best corner. Who would've thunk it..

[CapLovesTroyP43]

Loved the game and I actually watched this one! It was all good to me. We won. Got the third down when we needed it to win. Gay probably saved the day. Miller too with some great catches. I'm happy!!!

[steelreserve]

I remember a few years back when everyone, including me, was ripping on William Gay. And now he's our best corner. Who would've thunk it..


I was among those people. I don't know whether this speaks more to the fact that he's improved or that the rest of the secondary is a full-on train wreck. Probably both. But I'll give him this - he used to be the one you could count on to fall down and leave his guy wide open, or be the one chasing 5 yards behind on those 60-yard joke touchdown passes. This time around, he's the only one you DON'T see doing that.

[zulater]

Not me. We should have been gashing them with plays like the 25-yard game-icer to Heath all afternoon, considering they spent the entire game selling out to stop the run. They should have been made to pay much more dearly for loading the box with 8 and 9 guys all day. That's how you stopped the 2001 Steelers. But what did we do for most of the game? Runs up the middle and draws on first down and often on second down as well. :frusty:

I'm happy for the win, but no way should it have been as close as it was.

Definitely played the second half as if not to lose rather than to win. Seems they've convinced themselves that as long as they win the turnover battle they're invincible. ( this comes from quotes I've seen through last week and was clinched by them not exploiting an obviously overloaded vulnerable defense.) Which works fine against the Falcons. But if they think that's going to get them anywhere as the stakes get higher they're kidding themselves. When you've got a franchise qb playing like a franchise qb turn him the fuck loose!

[LLT]

I remember a few years back when everyone, including me, was ripping on William Gay. And now he's our best corner. Who would've thunk it..

Gay gets ripped when he is a starting CB....and rightfully so. He is a good nickel corner, but when put in as a #1 or #2 you get what we see week after week. A roller coater ride. Occasional great plays mixed in with his giving up big plays. It drives me absolutely insane to see him giving 10 yard cushions...but that's what you have to do when your not tall or fast.

Gay makes the most of what he has...but he is NOT a starting CB in this league and his inconsistency is the most obvious proof of that.

[Butch]

Willie Gay did Great and provided a spark early in the game. Antonio Brown one HELLUVA catch great toe tap late in the game. Every yard that Bell got in the run game was well deserved since the line wasn't opening any holes.

For the most part I was ok with the offensive play calls but PLEASE get rid of that Damn bubble screen!!! Someone just rip that play out of the play books and burn it. On Defense please stop rushing only 3 it also doesn't work. I swear everytime we only rush 3 we get burned.

[86WARD]

He's been the best corner they've had this season.

[vader29]

For the most part I was ok with the offensive play calls but PLEASE get rid of that Damn bubble screen!!! Someone just rip that play out of the play books and burn it.
Agreed, that play needs completely erased from their brains!

http://i.imgur.com/z8cUsGD.jpg

[tube517]

Game ball Willie G. : 8 Tackles, pick 6. Ben and AB, of course

Goat: The refs


Honorable Mention to Vince Williams who has improved from last year

[Craic]

Game ball: Ben, once again, great protection of the ball. No turnovers, not even close. AB, MB, and Wheaton (with AB getting the ball and the other two getting a nod). Willie Gay has been playing well. Great Job. O line gets honorable mention for pass protection. Run blocking - not much you can do when the other team completely sells out for it.

Goat: Jason Worilds and Antonio Brown for their penalties. No, not the refs. The players. Seriously Worilds, how many times do you have to be told that you CAN NOT DRIVE A QB TO THE TURF. I don't care how grandpa played the game. If James Harrison can learn the rules (and he did, check the Ravens game), so can you. AB, you extended a lot of drives, but your fifteen yard penalty AFTER the play killed a very important drive. Keep your head on your shoulders.

[NCSteeler]

Craig you've lost your mind if you think at was a legit penalty


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[fansince'76]

Seriously Worilds, how many times do you have to be told that you CAN NOT DRIVE A QB TO THE TURF. I don't care how grandpa played the game. If James Harrison can learn the rules (and he did, check the Ravens game), so can you.

544205417580998656

:noidea:

[X-Terminator]

Seriously Worilds, how many times do you have to be told that you CAN NOT DRIVE A QB TO THE TURF.


Sorry, but there is no way in hell that hit deserved a flag, and there is no justification for it. If Pereira didn't think it was a penalty, then I'm wont to believe him. And besides, how in the holy hell can he stop himself from "driving the QB into the turf" if he's moving at full speed through the QB in a TEXTBOOK HIT, the very thing you have been getting on players for NOT doing? Is there some law of physics I'm missing here?

[Shoes]

Honorable Mention to Vince Williams who has improved from last year


Indeed, the guy is a brick s**t house.

[zulater]

Game ball: Ben, once again, great protection of the ball. No turnovers, not even close. AB, MB, and Wheaton (with AB getting the ball and the other two getting a nod). Willie Gay has been playing well. Great Job. O line gets honorable mention for pass protection. Run blocking - not much you can do when the other team completely sells out for it.

Goat: Jason Worilds and Antonio Brown for their penalties. No, not the refs. The players. Seriously Worilds, how many times do you have to be told that you CAN NOT DRIVE A QB TO THE TURF. I don't care how grandpa played the game. If James Harrison can learn the rules (and he did, check the Ravens game), so can you. AB, you extended a lot of drives, but your fifteen yard penalty AFTER the play killed a very important drive. Keep your head on your shoulders.

Are you just being a contrarian? Devil's advocate perhaps? Rise above the rabble be the voice of reason? Sorry but no way was that a legit penalty. That was a textbook hit by the new standards. The NFL's heads up program is teaching that as a proper hit.


And just to prove I didn't just view the game with black and gold glasses the Steelers had several questionable calls go in their favor. I was very surprised when the flag was picked up on the clipping call against Bryant or Wheaton(?) Not to say they were wrong to do so, but it was pretty damn close, I couldn't have complained if the flag had stayed. And also as I previously pointed out there's no debating that Ramon Foster got away with illegal procedure on the play action pass to Miller that sealed the win for the Steelers.

But getting back to the Worilds hit, if you take that hit out of the game, you might as well just put flags on the qb's hips. :frusty:

[Hawkman]

544250680090066944

Should not be part of this thread!

[Steelman]

A few people of note that stood out to me as I watched the game:

Ben played a very clean game, AB played well as usual. I also thought Wheat and Bryant stepped up. I noticed some better routes by Bryant in particular. Willie Gay was a little up and down, but obviously made a great read on that pick-6. Heath was gold. Shamarko made a sweet ST tackle early in the game. Timmons is the man, he's the unsung hero of the defense. Vinny played well, even Spence made some nice stops.


The O-line had a sub-par game, but good enough to get the job done in the end. Ramon Foster had some head-scratchers and should've nullified the clincher to Heath. Unfortunately, Bell was probably most affected, but I think he made the most of it with his ability to fall for an extra yard or two, and the two touchdown runs. The secondary in general was bad, per usual. Troy made some serious whiffs, Mitchell was just bad. Seriously, I wonder what he's thinking half the time. I thought Blake was trying hard, but couldn't find any consistency. I'd put Blake into the Cortez category, plenty of athleticism, still figuring out the mental part of the game. But he could still be good depth for future.

[Craic]

Are you just being a contrarian? Devil's advocate perhaps? Rise above the rabble be the voice of reason? Sorry but no way was that a legit penalty. That was a textbook hit by the new standards. The NFL's heads up program is teaching that as a proper hit.


And just to prove I didn't just view the game with black and gold glasses the Steelers had several questionable calls go in their favor. I was very surprised when the flag was picked up on the clipping call against Bryant or Wheaton(?) Not to say they were wrong to do so, but it was pretty damn close, I couldn't have complained if the flag had stayed. And also as I previously pointed out there's no debating that Ramon Foster got away with illegal procedure on the play action pass to Miller that sealed the win for the Steelers.

But getting back to the Worilds hit, if you take that hit out of the game, you might as well just put flags on the qb's hips. :frusty:

No.

Rule 12 Section 2 Article 9b.

...when tackling a passer who is in a defenseless posture (e.g., during or just after throwing a pass), a defensive player must not unnecessarily or violently throw him down and land on top of him with all or most of the defender’s weight. Instead, the defensive player must strive to wrap up the passer with the defensive player’s arms.

Definition of "defenseless posture" includes "In the act of or just after throwing a pass." The quarterback was looking down the field finding a receiver, which is part of the "act of throwing a pass," because it's all part of the same process.

Don't get mad at me. Those are the rules. The second it happened, I knew it was a penalty. James Harrison learned how to slide of the QB and not drive him into the ground. Worilds can learn it too. He was at fault and anything else, is just an excuse.

[zulater]

No.

Rule 12 Section 2 Article 9b.

...when tackling a passer who is in a defenseless posture (e.g., during or just after throwing a pass), a defensive player must not unnecessarily or violently throw him down and land on top of him with all or most of the defender’s weight. Instead, the defensive player must strive to wrap up the passer with the defensive player’s arms.

Definition of "defenseless posture" includes "In the act of or just after throwing a pass." The quarterback was looking down the field finding a receiver, which is part of the "act of throwing a pass," because it's all part of the same process.

Don't get mad at me. Those are the rules. The second it happened, I knew it was a penalty. James Harrison learned how to slide of the QB and not drive him into the ground. Worilds can learn it too. He was at fault and anything else, is just an excuse.

Your interpretation of that play is wrong.

No one with benefit of the replay sees that hit as illegal. The qb never came close to throwing that ball. He was by no measure defenseless.

[Dwinsgames]

No.

Rule 12 Section 2 Article 9b.

...when tackling a passer who is in a defenseless posture (e.g., during or just after throwing a pass), a defensive player must not unnecessarily or violently throw him down and land on top of him with all or most of the defender’s weight. Instead, the defensive player must strive to wrap up the passer with the defensive player’s arms.

Definition of "defenseless posture" includes "In the act of or just after throwing a pass." The quarterback was looking down the field finding a receiver, which is part of the "act of throwing a pass," because it's all part of the same process.

Don't get mad at me. Those are the rules. The second it happened, I knew it was a penalty. James Harrison learned how to slide of the QB and not drive him into the ground. Worilds can learn it too. He was at fault and anything else, is just an excuse.

sorry man , you are incorrect ... in your definition anytime the QB takes a snap he is in the process of throwing and that simply is not correct

the act of throwing is when he has his arm in motion to make a pass not anytime prior

[Craic]

Your interpretation of that play is wrong.

No one with benefit of the replay sees that hit as illegal. The qb never came close to throwing that ball. He was by no measure defenseless.

When a QB has the ball in his hands and is looking down the field, the NFL considers him defenseless. That's how it's been ruled for the last five years. And, BTW, the refs DON'T have the benefit of replay on a call like that.

But, let's go with still photography since we're using the benefit of hindsight.

http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll59/meraby/Capturse.png

Hands on player, full weight coming down on QB = ILLEGAL

In comparison - James Harrison against the Ravens:

http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll59/meraby/Harrison.png

Arm extended, full weight not on QB = NO PENALTY

It's really not a hard concept for an NFL player to grasp. You can't drive QBs to the turf anymore. Period. Them's the rules, like it or not, so I expect our players to learn how to play within them.

[Craic]

sorry man , you are incorrect ... in your definition anytime the QB takes a snap he is in the process of throwing and that simply is not correct

the act of throwing is when he has his arm in motion to make a pass not anytime prior

The way it's been called for the last however-many years, when a QB is looking downfield, he's still being considered a defenseless player (because he's looking to throw a pass). Every penalty you see where on a roughing the passer call anymore is basically found under this rule. The only way that DOESNT happen is when he brings the ball down and starts to run with it. And even then, as Harrison found out a few years ago, the QB may STILL be considered a defenseless player if he decides to throw the ball after running with it but is still behind the LOS. I think that last part is horrendously wrong, but we've seen it happen over and over.

Is it literally in the act? No. But that is not the way it's been called. I challenge you to find more than two cases in the last three or more years where a QB behind the LOS is driven to the ground and no call is made.

That's today's NFL. It's no secret to our players. So I expect them to play smart and stop getting stupid penalties.

[Lady Steel]

I can't find anything regarding the hit by Worilds, but...


NFL Admits Roughing The Passer Call On 49ers Was Wrong (http://deadspin.com/nfl-admits-roughing-the-passer-call-on-49ers-was-wrong-1671211327)

The NFL has admitted it blew a call that felt pretty crucial at the time, a questionable roughing the passer penalty in yesterday's 17-7 Seahawks win that eliminated the 49ers from the playoffs.

Early in the fourth quarter, with Seattle up three, Russell Wilson tossed an incomplete pass on third down. But the Seahawks got a second chance, when referee Ed Hochuli threw a flag on Niners LB Nick Moody for hitting Wilson in the chest after he released the ball. At issue: whether Moody's head was up or down. On NFL Network today, the league's head of officiating Dean Blandino said it was a clean hit: (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/12/15/nfl-says-hochuli-got-49ers-roughing-the-passer-call-wrong/)


"It's close, but when you look at it on tape, Moody's head is up, he hits with more the side or the facemask to the body of the quarterback. So in our review, with the ability to look at it in slow motion, it is not a foul," Blandino said.






http://deadspin.com/nfl-admits-roughing-the-passer-call-on-49ers-was-wrong-1671211327?utm_campaign=socialflow_deadspin_twitte r&utm_source=deadspin_twitter&utm_medium=socialflow

[zulater]

When a QB has the ball in his hands and is looking down the field, the NFL considers him defenseless. That's how it's been ruled for the last five years. And, BTW, the refs DON'T have the benefit of replay on a call like that.

But, let's go with still photography since we're using the benefit of hindsight.

http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll59/meraby/Capturse.png

Hands on player, full weight coming down on QB = ILLEGAL

In comparison - James Harrison against the Ravens:

http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll59/meraby/Harrison.png

Arm extended, full weight not on QB = NO PENALTY

It's really not a hard concept for an NFL player to grasp. You can't drive QBs to the turf anymore. Period. Them's the rules, like it or not, so I expect our players to learn how to play within them.

Guess what? You have issues with our coaches then. Because I guaran-fucking-tee you that Tomlin and LeBeau wont do anything other than pat Worilds on the head and say good job, you did nothing wrong, and if the situation arises again do the same thing. And hopefully next time you'll get a more competent ref calling the play.

Timmons hit Ryan after he had given himself up on a play, that should have drawn a flag. This play no. Not even debatable.

[steelreserve]

You can probably call half of all sacks "driving the quarterback into the ground." That's what happens quite frequently when you get tackled.

This rule, like most "player safety" rules, was made to prevent deliberate cheap shots and dangerous plays.

However, this rule, like most "player safety" rules, has been re-interpreted to mean "throw a flag any time it LOOKS like it was a hard hit."

The rule itself, much like the "spearing" rule for leading with the helmet, has been around since at least the late '80s or early '90s. The actual meaning has been completely thrown out. Gone. It's completely make-it-up-as-you-go now. And sadly, more often than not it's for the benefit of the cameras.

[tube517]

https://scontent-b-dfw.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xap1/v/t1.0-9/1012943_10202241300753834_8237174056099692061_n.jp g?oh=fe20c6ab92750faecda951f3b4dcbd89&oe=550CDC71

At this point, he should stop and fall down to the side. :chuckle:

[Dwinsgames]

Mike Pereira ✔ @MikePereira (https://twitter.com/MikePereira) Follow (https://twitter.com/MikePereira) It was close - but not a penalty in ATL. not a crown of the helmet hit

.

[zulater]

https://scontent-b-dfw.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xap1/v/t1.0-9/1012943_10202241300753834_8237174056099692061_n.jp g?oh=fe20c6ab92750faecda951f3b4dcbd89&oe=550CDC71

At this point, he should stop and fall down to the side. :chuckle:



Either that or sprout wings or don a rocket pack as to remain impervious to gravity. :lol:

As an aside, notice how he's in the act of throwing? :sarcasm:

[86WARD]

Should not be part of this thread!

Why not?

[st33lersguy]

Ryan had the ball so he isn't defenseless, and Worilds is tackling Ryan around his abdomen with his head to Ryan's chest. This is not a penalty even in Goodingleberry's wussified definition of roughing the passer

[86WARD]

BTW - Worilds is HARDLY "driving" Ryan to the ground...

[zulater]

.

I don't even think it was close. It was just a violent hit. One that could have easily been prevented had Ryan done his job and seen that Worlids was unaccounted for on the play.

[Craic]

BTW - Worilds is HARDLY "driving" Ryan to the ground...

When he lands on him with his full weight, rather than sliding off to the side, or putting his hand out to stop all his weight coming down, it became exactly that.

For everyone complaining . . . them's the rules. Do they suck? Sure. But you can't go out and do exactly what the rule says you can't do, and then complain that you got called for it.

It's like grabbing for a cop's gun, getting shot, and then blaming the cop.

(too soon?)

[zulater]

When he lands on him with his full weight, rather than sliding off to the side, or putting his hand out to stop all his weight coming down, it became exactly that.

For everyone complaining . . . them's the rules. Do they suck? Sure. But you can't go out and do exactly what the rule says you can't do, and then complain that you got called for it.

It's like grabbing for a cop's gun, getting shot, and then blaming the cop.

(too soon?)

You're on an island my friend. Mike Periara who would seem to have some understanding of the rules thinks otherwise. I'm going to lean with him. And again before you accuse me of excessive homerism as a whole, for the entirety of the game I think more of the borderline calls went the Steelers way than against them.

That call though was wrong and a huge difference maker. Instead of 3rd and 19 from the 46 it became 1st and 10 from the 21.

[KeiselPower99]

I remember a few years back when everyone, including me, was ripping on William Gay. And now he's our best corner. Who would've thunk it..

I am one of them who hated Gay but before he went to Arizona he had started to become very reliable. It might not be saying much but he has been our best CB this year and pairing him with McCain has been good.

[X-Terminator]

You're on an island my friend. Mike Periara who would seem to have some understanding of the rules thinks otherwise. I'm going to lean with him.

From what I've read, even fans from other teams that hate the Steelers thought it wasn't a penalty. So you're absolutely correct - it ain't just "homer" Steelers fans.

[Psycho Ward 86]

I remember a few years back when everyone, including me, was ripping on William Gay. And now he's our best corner. Who would've thunk it..

Guy has been solid since 2010, whether it be as a true starter or at nickel. Not a player to pound the table for but definitely perpetually under appreciated by the fan base

[Craic]

You're on an island my friend. Mike Periara who would seem to have some understanding of the rules thinks otherwise. I'm going to lean with him. And again before you accuse me of excessive homerism as a whole, for the entirety of the game I think more of the borderline calls went the Steelers way than against them.

That call though was wrong and a huge difference maker. Instead of 3rd and 19 from the 46 it became 1st and 10 from the 21.

Never accused you of such. As far as Periara is concerned, I understand, but I also wonder if he's talking about the hit itself, rather than the way they landed, because THAT's what I think the refs called.

And, I guarantee had he slid off, there'd be no penalty. That's my only point. Regardless of whether the call itself was even right or not, there's a simple way to avoid it, and that's not to land with all your weight on a QB.

[GoSlash27]

All,
I was with you folks when I saw the play; no way that was helmet to helmet...

But after reading Craic's initial post, I have to side with him.
He's right, during a sack, you cannot drive the QB to the ground like that. It's gonna draw a flag every time.

I'm not going to say that it's a penalty according to the rules (I don't know) and I'm definitely not saying that it *should* be a penalty (it shouldn't)... but if you hit a QB that hard in today's league (regardless of what the rules say) you're going to draw laundry. And once the flag is thrown, you can't challenge it.

Better to not drive the QB to the ground like that. It may or may not be technically illegal, but as a practical matter it might as well be.

Best,
-Slashy

[zulater]

Finally got a chance to see the game in it's entirety on NFL rewind. So has anyone mentioned Cam Heyward here yet? He had a huge game. I also think the offensive line did a better job than first thought. Falcons were just bringing more than they could block. They might have to reconsider using the two tight end formation so much, because I think that invites invites stacking the box. Wheaton also had an underrated game. Had to reach behind himself to make the catch on a crossing route to convert a key 3rd down. Not as easy task when you know some safety or linebacker is probably lining you up at the time. Solid throughout. I think the next time we see a team stack the box so much on first and second down we've got to get our 3 wr set out there more often. Wheaton and Bryant are finally getting up to speed, so I think we can manage it better than we were earlier in the season.

[Mojouw]

Finally got a chance to see the game in it's entirety on NFL rewind. So has anyone mentioned Cam Heyward here yet? He had a huge game. I also think the offensive line did a better job than first thought. Falcons were just bringing more than they could block. They might have to reconsider using the two tight end formation so much, because I think that invites invites stacking the box. Wheaton also had an underrated game. Had to reach behind himself to make the catch on a crossing route to convert a key 3rd down. Not as easy task when you know some safety or linebacker is probably lining you up at the time. Solid throughout. I think the next time we see a team stack the box so much on first and second down we've got to get our 3 wr set out there more often. Wheaton and Bryant are finally getting up to speed, so I think we can manage it better than we were earlier in the season.

Good points. Assuming that Wheaton and Bryant now know most of the playbook, that set with AB looks terrifying for defenses to try and match-up with. I read somewhere that Bryant did not know enough of the offense to play in no=huddle situations. I hope they can get him up to speed there. Can you image Ben, Bell, Brown, Bryant, and Wheaton running a no-huddle? Particularly if they can "catch" a defense with the wrong personnel package on the field?

[zulater]

All,
I was with you folks when I saw the play; no way that was helmet to helmet...

But after reading Craic's initial post, I have to side with him.
He's right, during a sack, you cannot drive the QB to the ground like that. It's gonna draw a flag every time.

I'm not going to say that it's a penalty according to the rules (I don't know) and I'm definitely not saying that it *should* be a penalty (it shouldn't)... but if you hit a QB that hard in today's league (regardless of what the rules say) you're going to draw laundry. And once the flag is thrown, you can't challenge it.

Better to not drive the QB to the ground like that. It may or may not be technically illegal, but as a practical matter it might as well be.

Best,
-Slashy

One of the plays from this week’s game that has gotten the most attention is the clean hit linebacker Jason Worilds put on Falcons quarterback Matt Ryan that was flagged for roughing the passer.
Roethlisberger weighed in on the hit saying it was clean, but that he doesn’t mind the league protecting its quarterbacks.
“Obviously, we didn’t like it because it was a penalty against our guys,” Roethlisberger said. “When I talked to Clete [Blakeman] the referee, he said it happened so fast he didn’t feel like he led with the crown of his helmet, he just felt like he hit him a little bit too high. You can’t be mad at a guy that made a judgment call like that in a split-second situation. Everyone’s human, there’s going to be mistakes.”
Roethlisberger talked more about the current state of football where hits like that are often flagged and fans think the game is being softened.
“It’s a violent, violent sport,” Roethlisberger said. “You get old men like me out there playing with these young pups that are flying around and hitting you. We don’t mind sometimes that they protect us quarterbacks. The NFL’s got to protect its investments. That’s the game of football now, it changes and transitions like anything else, so we play it the way that it’s supposed to be played.”




http://pittsburgh.cbslocal.com/2014/12/16/roethlisberger-on-state-of-football-nfls-got-to-protect-its-investments/

Unless Ben's lying Craig's theory had nothing to do with the call.

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https://scontent-b-dfw.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xap1/v/t1.0-9/1012943_10202241300753834_8237174056099692061_n.jp g?oh=fe20c6ab92750faecda951f3b4dcbd89&oe=550CDC71

At this point, he should stop and fall down to the side. :chuckle:

And obviously Clete was wrong.

[86WARD]

When he lands on him with his full weight, rather than sliding off to the side, or putting his hand out to stop all his weight coming down, it became exactly that.

For everyone complaining . . . them's the rules. Do they suck? Sure. But you can't go out and do exactly what the rule says you can't do, and then complain that you got called for it.

It's like grabbing for a cop's gun, getting shot, and then blaming the cop.

(too soon?)

Lol. Seriously? He's supposed to "slide off" at the speed they are going? Come on. Sure he lands on top of him ... NOT with all of his weight and with no drive into the ground ... But that's not a tackle that should be a penalty.

[Craic]

Lol. Seriously? He's supposed to "slide off" at the speed they are going? Come on. Sure he lands on top of him ... NOT with all of his weight and with no drive into the ground ... But that's not a tackle that should be a penalty.

Yep, As silly as it seems, them's the rules. In short, the ref has to see you making an attempt to get your weight off the QB.

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Lol. Seriously? He's supposed to "slide off" at the speed they are going? Come on. Sure he lands on top of him ... NOT with all of his weight and with no drive into the ground ... But that's not a tackle that should be a penalty.

Yep, As silly as it seems, them's the rules. In short, the ref has to see you making an attempt to get your weight off the QB.

[slippy]

my biggest problem with that play is that Ryan came right back into the game. his head snapped and then bounced off the turf! he was clearly dazed. where is the concussion protocall? shouldnt that at least take 5-10 minutes?

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my biggest problem with that play is that Ryan came right back into the game. his head snapped and then bounced off the turf! he was clearly dazed. where is the concussion protocall? shouldnt that at least take 5-10 minutes?

[zulater]

Yep, As silly as it seems, them's the rules. In short, the ref has to see you making an attempt to get your weight off the QB.

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Yep, As silly as it seems, them's the rules. In short, the ref has to see you making an attempt to get your weight off the QB.

By Ben's account that aspect if the play had no bearing on the call. When you combine what Ben is saying the ref said with my own visual account of the play I think it came down to the ref (over) reacting to the violence of the hit and reaching a false conclusion that the hit was too high.

The ref had it wrong, as do you, just for different reasons. .

[NCSteeler]

It's wonderful that Cam is reaching Aaron smith status of having an excellent game and getting standard 3-4 lineman recognition. LOL I thought ths was the first I've seen Wheaton really be solid. Made some nice plays.
Typically driving weight on the QB involves leaving the feet and driving hard, Worlids didnt do either, and I trust Ben's word on what the ref said he saw and called. And to some degree I agree with him that it is just part of the new game and its not terrible, BUT it does give some impression of favoritisim to smaller pocket passers over Ben's style.

[zulater]

It's wonderful that Cam is reaching Aaron smith status of having an excellent game and getting standard 3-4 lineman recognition. LOL I thought ths was the first I've seen Wheaton really be solid. Made some nice plays.
Typically driving weight on the QB involves leaving the feet and driving hard, Worlids didnt do either, and I trust Ben's word on what the ref said he saw and called. And to some degree I agree with him that it is just part of the new game and its not terrible, BUT it does give some impression of favoritisim to smaller pocket passers over Ben's style.

Good post

The picture verifies he didn't leave his feet.

[Craic]

By Ben's account that aspect if the play had no bearing on the call. When you combine what Ben is saying the ref said with my own visual account of the play I think it came down to the ref (over) reacting to the violence of the hit and reaching a false conclusion that the hit was too high.

The ref had it wrong, as do you, just for different reasons. .

No . . . the ref got it right, for the wrong reasons.

If Ben's story is correct, then I admit the ref was completely wrong based on why he called it. Of course, the rulebook also says that if there is any doubt, to call a penalty (which is another stupid part of it). Nevertheless, the whole not landing on the QB is big deal in today's NFL, and I'm pretty sure it would've been called anyway.

But, it's water under the bridge at this point. Here's hoping we can thump KC.

[zulater]

No . . . the ref got it right, for the wrong reasons.

If Ben's story is correct, then I admit the ref was completely wrong based on why he called it. Of course, the rulebook also says that if there is any doubt, to call a penalty (which is another stupid part of it). Nevertheless, the whole not landing on the QB is big deal in today's NFL, and I'm pretty sure it would've been called anyway.

But, it's water under the bridge at this point. Here's hoping we can thump KC.

Still on your island I see. :doh:

Ok lets take a vote. All who think Worlids's hit should have been a penalty say aye. All opposed. Nay.

Just for a litmus test to see how objective we are.

Was Timmons hit on a sliding Ryan a penalty? Or rather it wasn't called, but should it have been?

That's the last I've got to say on the matter.

Oh wait. One more thing.


Nay! on the first matter.

Aye on Timmons

[Craic]

Still on your island I see. :doh:

Ok lets take a vote. All who think Worlids's hit should have been a penalty say aye. All opposed. Nay.

Just for a litmus test to see how objective we are.

Was Timmons hit on a sliding Ryan a penalty? Or rather it wasn't called, but should it have been?

That's the last I've got to say on the matter.

Oh wait. One more thing.


Nay! on the first matter.

Aye on Timmons

That's pretty foolhardy. Hey! Let's take a vote, all who think the Ravens suck, say Aye!

Surprised by the results?

Come on, Zu, you're a better debate than that.


I'll tell you what, show me over the last few weeks where players have come down on QBs with all their weight and have not received flags, and I'll bow out of the discussion with a hardy, you're right. Hint - you're not going to find nearly the amount needed to make that point stand. matter of fact, I'd be surprised if you found 5 percent.

[Dwinsgames]

we simply can't make it up as we go along , feet dragging on the ground refutes driving him into the ground .... photo clearly shows it ... ( its like putting on the brakes think of being on a bicycle with no brakes you slow down and stop by dragging feet ) was that intent or circumstance ? who knows , who cares ....

[GoSlash27]

Still on your island I see. :doh:

Ok lets take a vote. All who think Worlids's hit should have been a penalty say aye. All opposed. Nay.

Just for a litmus test to see how objective we are.

Was Timmons hit on a sliding Ryan a penalty? Or rather it wasn't called, but should it have been?

That's the last I've got to say on the matter.

Oh wait. One more thing.


Nay! on the first matter.

Aye on Timmons

Appeal to popularity fallacy, and a lame one at that.
I'm not arguing whether the hit was "legal" or not, I'm arguing that it was not smart.

If you hit a QB that hard, the ref is going to err on the side of caution and throw a flag. Once it's thrown, it's not getting picked up.
If you lose a game due to an untimely 'roughing the passer' penalty, *does it matter* whether the hit was technically "legal" or not?
If you want to win football games, don't draw unnecessary flags (whether bad calls or not).

My $0.02
-Slashy

[zulater]

Appeal to popularity fallacy, and a lame one at that.
I'm not arguing whether the hit was "legal" or not, I'm arguing that it was not smart.

If you hit a QB that hard, the ref is going to err on the side of caution and throw a flag. Once it's thrown, it's not getting picked up.
If you lose a game due to an untimely 'roughing the passer' penalty, *does it matter* whether the hit was technically "legal" or not?
If you want to win football games, don't draw unnecessary flags (whether bad calls or not).

My $0.02
-Slashy

You hesitate or pull up when you have a clean run on the qb and 9 out of 10 times you miss him entirely. The "problem" was that he came in unblocked. Matt Ryan should have recognized he had a man unaccounted for. It's a rarity that you get a free run at a qb like this. Also it didn't help that Ryan is a runt. Big Ben, Cam Newton, Andrew Luck, hit any of them the same and you probably don't even take them off their feet.

I've seen no indication that the coaches hand any issue with Worlids approach to this play. I doubt very much they're going to tell him or anyone else in that room to handle things differently if the situation presents itself the same in the future.

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That's pretty foolhardy. Hey! Let's take a vote, all who think the Ravens suck, say Aye!

Surprised by the results?

Come on, Zu, you're a better debate than that.


I'll tell you what, show me over the last few weeks where players have come down on QBs with all their weight and have not received flags, and I'll bow out of the discussion with a hardy, you're right. Hint - you're not going to find nearly the amount needed to make that point stand. matter of fact, I'd be surprised if you found 5 percent.

Tell you what, show me the flag worthy hit on a qb that didn't draw a fine and I'll bow out of the discussion. :coffee:

[Craic]

Tell you what, show me the flag worthy hit on a qb that didn't draw a fine and I'll bow out of the discussion. :coffee:

Has nothing to do with this discussion.

[zulater]

Has nothing to do with this discussion.

Except that it does. If the hit that you describe had actually taken place Jason would have been fined by the league. The non fine falls in order with the hit the rest of the board ( as opposed to you and Slash) the Steelers, and Mike Peirara's witnessed on that play.

[Count Steeler]

Except that it does. If the hit that you describe had actually taken place Jason would have been fined by the league. The non fine falls in order with the hit the rest of the board ( as opposed to you and Slash) the Steelers, and Mike Peirara's witnessed on that play.

Not exactly a seal of approval when those idiots in the NFL office review the tape. Still amazes me that such inconsistencies exist when a group of football savvy people supposedly watch videos of all the questionable plays, and some they fine and some they don't. Even if the officials get it wrong, they are supposed to get it right.

[GoSlash27]

You hesitate or pull up when you have a clean run on the qb and 9 out of 10 times you miss him entirely. The "problem" was that he came in unblocked. Matt Ryan should have recognized he had a man unaccounted for. It's a rarity that you get a free run at a qb like this. Also it didn't help that Ryan is a runt. Big Ben, Cam Newton, Andrew Luck, hit any of them the same and you probably don't even take them off their feet.

I've seen no indication that the coaches hand any issue with Worlids approach to this play. I doubt very much they're going to tell him or anyone else in that room to handle things differently if the situation presents itself the same in the future.

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Yeah, "I've seen no indication that" "I doubt very much".
These are terms that one uses when he's speculating. What is not open to speculation is this:
he *did* draw the flag.
It *did* give them a first down.
We *did* have them stopped cold on that drive before that penalty
they *did* score a touchdown when they should've been punting as a direct result of that penalty,
and
The final score was a 1 touchdown difference.

The question isn't whether Worilds should have tried avoiding leveling Ryan, but whether he *could* have.


Tell you what, show me the flag worthy hit on a qb that didn't draw a fine and I'll bow out of the discussion. :coffee:
Meaningless distinction. "Flag- worthy" is not defined by you, me, or anyone else on this forum. If we get knocked out of the playoffs as the result of a flag on a "technically legal" hit, I suppose you can draw some solace from that. I think the rest of us would rather win the game, tho'