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X-Terminator
11-14-2014, 03:35 PM
SCOTTSDALE, Ariz. -- The Pirates are bringing back A.J. Burnett (http://www.mlb.com/r/player?player_id=150359).

The club and Burnett, who last week turned down the player option he held with the Phillies, reached agreement on a contract for the 2015 season Friday.

Pirates general manager Neal Huntington and Burnett will address the reunion on a media conference call at 4:30 p.m. ET.

Burnett signed with Philadelphia in 2014 after having gone 26-21 with the Bucs in 2012-13. At the time, he was most interested in pitching closer to his home.

http://m.pirates.mlb.com/news/article/101456004/pirates-sign-pitcher-aj-burnett-to-one-year-contract

vader29
11-14-2014, 04:41 PM
533386350498942976

stillers4me
11-14-2014, 05:39 PM
:applaudit:

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KeiselPower99
11-14-2014, 09:13 PM
Happy to see him return.

oneforthetoe
11-14-2014, 11:40 PM
I know he probably won't be the pitcher he was in his last stint here ... but I love AJ. He is a grinder. Even if he gives up early runs he'll dig in and fight. not only does that give you a chance to come back but it is a great example to young pitchers.

Lady Steel
11-15-2014, 01:36 AM
:applaudit:

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I'd take back Burnett in a hot minute if he can get Russell Martin. Man, that would be so awesome!

zulater
11-15-2014, 06:20 AM
This probably means outside of the qualifying offer's to secure the draft pick, they have no real interest in signing Liriano or Voquez.

Hindes204
11-16-2014, 08:42 AM
Love AJ. He pitched well last year and his w/l record does him no justice. Great to have him back

zulater
11-16-2014, 09:04 AM
Day late and a dollar short is how I view this. Maybe if they would have made more of an effort to keep him last year they would have won the division rather than being subjected to a one game elimination that comes with being Wild Card team. Does A.J. have another good season left in him? Who knows? Is he better than Voquez or Liriano? Doubt it. So if this move was made with the thought of saving money by jettisoning those two then I can't really be that enthusiastic about this signing. Guess we'll have to wait and see? :noidea:

As far as A.J. wielding influence over Russell Martin. Not going to happen. Pirates already made their move at catcher. Traded hard throwing lefty Justin Wilson to the Yankees for the oft injured, PED using Francisco Cervelli.

Hindes204
11-16-2014, 11:42 AM
I would expect nothing less from you Zu, I'm not sure I've ever heard you say a positive word about the Buccos.


$8.5 for a starting pitcher is a good move. Probably means Liriano is gone, but it is what it is, I'm ok with the swap. As far as Martin, we were never going to be able to keep him, market is too shallow and teams are willing to waaaaayyyy overpay for him.

zulater
11-16-2014, 11:50 AM
I would expect nothing less from you Zu, I'm not sure I've ever heard you say a positive word about the Buccos.


$8.5 for a starting pitcher is a good move. Probably means Liriano is gone, but it is what it is, I'm ok with the swap. As far as Martin, we were never going to be able to keep him, market is too shallow and teams are willing to waaaaayyyy overpay for him.

Gee yeah it's sweet supporting a team with a self imposed payroll of 85 million that they don't even meet! Where did they end up in payroll last season 26? Something like that? So why can't I as a fan wonder why they can't go full out one season to make a genuine WS run? Oh yeah, we'll be good. But don't expect us to go that extra mile necessary to be great ever. You know windows of opportunity like Cutch's prime years last forever. No urgency here. Certainly not worth jeapardizing Nutting's bottom line. I mean ya know breaking even for a year or two after a decade of siphoning money is a total unreasonable expectation from any "real fan."

Hindes204
11-16-2014, 12:11 PM
Why are people so wrapped up in throwing more money at it. Would you rather is be like LAD and drop $200M+ and still never win the WS. The moves that have been made in the past couple of years have been very good moves. Would we have won it all if we spent more? Who knows, that argument can't be made because there's no telling what would have happened.


Money does not solve everything, there are key people you can put into place and still field a very competitive team.


and cut the condescending "real fan" bullshit, it's unbecoming

zulater
11-16-2014, 12:23 PM
Why are people so wrapped up in throwing more money at it. Would you rather is be like LAD and drop $200M+ and still never win the WS. The moves that have been made in the past couple of years have been very good moves. Would we have won it all if we spent more? Who knows, that argument can't be made because there's no telling what would have happened.


Money does not solve everything, there are key people you can put into place and still field a very competitive team.

I get that Martin is gone. But still don't buy into why it has to be. His WAR was over 5. How do you replace that? His handling of the pitching staff was a big part of the reason we won as many games as we did with a very moderate pitching staff. (Cole will be great, but he wasn't for the most part last season). I remember a game last summer where Charlie Morton was having his one crappy inning that derailed so many of his otherwise good starts. But bam bam, Martin throws out two different would be base stealers, threat over. Charlie settles down and ends up going 7 strong and gets the game to the bullpen.

And he was so damn clutch at the plate. Losing him could really set this team back in so many ways. I really think we should be the team that "overpays him". Nutting certainly wouldn't be going to the poor house over it. And hell in two years you can trade him and his big contract.

But I really think this team will essentially lose any real WS chance once Martin is out the door. His loss will resonate throughout the team in so many different ways.

X-Terminator
11-16-2014, 12:34 PM
No need for me to chime in about Martin and why it is absolutely imperative that Nutting shakes the cobwebs out of his wallet and pay the man what he wants. If you can't see how valuable he is, has been and will be to this team, then I don't know what else to tell you. But the fact remains that the only reason why Martin will be wearing another team's uniform is because of Nutting, and no other reason.

I don't know of any fan out there wanting the Pirates to spend $200 million. We all know that the Pirates can't spend that kind of money. But there isn't a thing stopping them from cracking $100-110 million...other than El Cheapo. Both the Reds and Brewers - small-market teams - spend more than the Pirates do. The Indians spent more. All 3 of them had $100+ million payrolls (and yes, I realize that none of them made the postseason). Hell, even the freaking Royals spent more than the Pirates last season! There is NO justification for why they won't spend more, ESPECIALLY now that they have raised ticket prices for the 3rd straight season, this time by 20%.

zulater
11-16-2014, 12:41 PM
No need for me to chime in about Martin and why it is absolutely imperative that Nutting shakes the cobwebs out of his wallet and pay the man what he wants. If you can't see how valuable he is, has been and will be to this team, then I don't know what else to tell you. But the fact remains that the only reason why Martin will be wearing another team's uniform is because of Nutting, and no other reason.

I don't know of any fan out there wanting the Pirates to spend $200 million. We all know that the Pirates can't spend that kind of money. But there isn't a thing stopping them from cracking $100-110 million...other than El Cheapo. Both the Reds and Brewers - small-market teams - spend more than the Pirates do. The Indians spent more. All 3 of them had $100+ million payrolls (and yes, I realize that none of them made the postseason). Hell, even the freaking Royals spent more than the Pirates last season! There is NO justification for why they won't spend more, ESPECIALLY now that they have raised ticket prices for the 3rd straight season, this time by 20%.

:applaudit: Great post.

And sorry to drag this thread down. I like A.J. Glad he's back. But the Cervelli move kinda bummed me out. To me it clearly states the Pirates have no intention of keeping Martin or making any sort of effort in that regard.

And I'm afraid the signing of A.J. is the precursor to letting Voquez and Liriano go.

Hindes204
11-16-2014, 02:04 PM
I think Volquez stays, Liriano goes. As far as Martin, there's not much more I can say because we absolutely disagree on his impact. He was great to have, but he isn't worth the almost $15M a year he will end up getting

zulater
11-16-2014, 02:36 PM
I think Volquez stays, Liriano goes. As far as Martin, there's not much more I can say because we absolutely disagree on his impact. He was great to have, but he isn't worth the almost $15M a year he will end up getting

Why not? Coming out of your pocket? Will Nutting go broke if they overpay Russell for a few years?

WAR is the new age telling stat according to all the sabermetrecians. Martin's WAR was 5.5.(second among all catchers in MLB last season) We're replacing him with a guy who's WAR was 1.1. A 4 game difference. That plays out was the money worth saving? You lose out on the division by 3 or 4 games. Teams start running at will against our catchers. I guess we can all sit there and celebrate Nutting's savings! :applaudit:

Hindes204
11-16-2014, 03:03 PM
Well since you're bringing out the WAR stat, let's talk about the FIP for AJ, that is the stat used to best judge a pitchers performance. It was better than Volquez. Not by much, but better. And I think AJ is the better inning eater and better in the clubhouse.

zulater
11-16-2014, 03:10 PM
Well since you're bringing out the WAR stat, let's talk about the FIP for AJ, that is the stat used to best judge a pitchers performance. It was better than Volquez. Not by much, but better. And I think AJ is the better inning eater and better in the clubhouse.



Fair enough. You can have A.J. over Volquez. I still want Martin. And I still think it's inexcusable that a team conceivably this close would let such a valuable player walk over money. Sometimes in life you have to swallow hard and do something against your usual best judgement. In my opinion this was one of those times.

Obviously my grousing wont change anything. But I wanted to vent all the same. Hope I'm wrong all the same.

Hindes204
11-16-2014, 03:15 PM
And why is everyone so quick to dismiss Cervelli, he has a reputation to be as good if not better than Martin defensively. Doesn't have the power offensively that Martin does, but still puts up above average offensive numbers. Injuries is the only knock I see, and if he stays healthy, I think he will be a good replacement.

Martin was definitely a leader in the locker room, but I still don't see that being worth upwards of 15M for an aging catcher

zulater
11-16-2014, 03:20 PM
And why is everyone so quick to dismiss Cervelli, he has a reputation to be as good if not better than Martin defensively. Doesn't have the power offensively that Martin does, but still puts up above average offensive numbers. Injuries is the only knock I see, and if he stays healthy, I think he will be a good replacement.

Martin was definitely a leader in the locker room, but I still don't see that being worth upwards of 15M for an aging catcher

Martin is much better throwing out potential base stealers. Big part of the defensive game for this team the past 3 years.

And most people who know Martin will tell you he's in excellent shape. His game should stay intact for most if not all of his next contract.

Hindes204
11-16-2014, 03:53 PM
Martin is much better throwing out potential base stealers. Big part of the defensive game for this team the past 3 years.

And most people who know Martin will tell you he's in excellent shape. His game should stay intact for most if not all of his next contract.

I will give you that, but Cervelli at 27% (Martin was at 32%) isn't terrible at it, just average. I will say that I don't like his suspension for PEDs, speaks bad for his character....unfortunately, that's the game of baseball today, I think it is still rampant, just not everyone gets popped

X-Terminator
11-16-2014, 04:09 PM
Martin is much better throwing out potential base stealers. Big part of the defensive game for this team the past 3 years.

And most people who know Martin will tell you he's in excellent shape. His game should stay intact for most if not all of his next contract.

He's also one of the best in the league at pitch framing, which is also a huge help for pitchers. Cervelli isn't nearly as good, and that will also have a negative impact on the staff.

I agree that Martin's health is being downplayed way too much. With the way people are talking, his career is pretty much over. Ridiculous. Whoever gets him will get the max value from him for the entire length of the deal, mark my words. That's why Nutting needs to stop acting like Mr. Scrooge and pay up.

Hindes204
11-16-2014, 04:35 PM
He's also one of the best in the league at pitch framing, which is also a huge help for pitchers. Cervelli isn't nearly as good, and that will also have a negative impact on the staff.

I agree that Martin's health is being downplayed way too much. With the way people are talking, his career is pretty much over. Ridiculous. Whoever gets him will get the max value from him for the entire length of the deal, mark my words. That's why Nutting needs to stop acting like Mr. Scrooge and pay up.

actually, Cervelli is thought to be a better pitch framer

X-Terminator
11-16-2014, 05:01 PM
actually, Cervelli is thought to be a better pitch framer

I haven't heard or seen that anywhere, but I'll take your word for it. It still does not make me feel any better about having this guy as the #1 catcher instead of Martin. It probably wouldn't change even if the guy turned out to be decent. I'm that pissed off at the organization for allowing Martin to walk, and at the people who continue to make excuses as to why they won't spend more money to keep talent here.

zulater
11-16-2014, 05:18 PM
I haven't heard or seen that anywhere, but I'll take your word for it. It still does not make me feel any better about having this guy as the #1 catcher instead of Martin. It probably wouldn't change even if the guy turned out to be decent. I'm that pissed off at the organization for allowing Martin to walk, and at the people who continue to make excuses as to why they won't spend more money to keep talent here.

I'll confirm that he comes with the rep of a good "pitch framer", and is supposed to handle a pitching staff well.

Hindes204
11-16-2014, 05:37 PM
I get it, there are a lot of pissed off people due to the fact that they are letting Martin walk, however, I truly believe this is a better decision for the future of the team. Martin had a career year offensively this year, he will go back to normal next year. That doesn't take away his leadership of this team of course, but as I've said before, that leadership is not worth $15 million

zulater
11-16-2014, 06:02 PM
I get it, there are a lot of pissed off people due to the fact that they are letting Martin walk, however, I truly believe this is a better decision for the future of the team. Martin had a career year offensively this year, he will go back to normal next year. That doesn't take away his leadership of this team of course, but as I've said before, that leadership is not worth $15 million

Why isn't he Hindes? There's no salary cap. No robbing Peter to pay Paul. "Overpaying" Martin wont put them even in the middle of the pack payroll wise, let alone the upper stratosphere. Sometimes in business you sacrifice the bottom line profit a little if the end game payoff is high enough. At some point next year has to be this year. The Pirates window is open. It wont stay that way forever. In another decade and down the road do you want to be looking back at the 2015 season as one of those good seasons where we were just a little bit short? Will that 15 million you saved Nutting make you feel good if McCutcheon leaves Pittsburgh 4 or 5 years from now never having advanced in the playoffs?

And I get that keeping Martin guarantees nothing. But if you can't see the chances with him are a helluva lot better than they are without him? Well then I guess we jut view baseball differently?

Hindes204
11-16-2014, 06:20 PM
I'm not a big fan of Nutting, but I think he does what he can with what he has.


heres an article that speaks a little to it:

http://pittsburgh.cbslocal.com/2014/08/20/ex-minority-owner-nutting-not-taking-cash-out-of-pirates-organization/

Hindes204
11-16-2014, 06:33 PM
With that being said, it does look bad on him that he's worth (the nutting family) about 1.1B