If You Were ART II

[Shoes]

What would you do, if anything with this team?

I'd fire Colbert by mid season, start looking for Lebeau's replacement, not giving Butler the key to the DC office until all other options were looked at and give Tomlin and Haley till season end to decide upon. This is a mix of people that seems to be going in four different directions.

[Dwinsgames]

What would you do, if anything with this team?

I'd fire Colbert by mid season, start looking for Lebeau's replacement, not giving Butler the key to the DC office until all other options were looked at and give Tomlin and Haley till season end to decide upon. This is a mix of people that seems to be going in four different directions.


for me Colbert and Tomlin are both gone period ...

all that is left to do is decide if we are letting the entire bunch go and letting the new GM hire the coach or staying as is and I hire him and then ...

1) do we force feed him a staff for a year and then let him make the changes or keep same

or

2) do we just let everyone go and let him be a man from day 1

[Shoes]

But when, Dwins? I think Colbert would be the only one that could be fired this early in the season without causing a cluster more than we have.

[fansince'76]

If I were ARII? Haley would already be gone. The defense is what it is (a mess), but this offense should be scoring a LOT more than what it is based on the personnel available. Changing OCs in midseason seemed to work out OK for the Ravens 2 years ago. We need to get an OC who is hired on his credentials as an OC, not because his father worked for the team back in the day.

[Dwinsgames]

But when, Dwins? I think Colbert would be the only one that could be fired this early in the season without causing a cluster more than we have.


colbert could go today without upsetting the apple cart any more than it already is ... guess tomlin could too because I do not think he is doing ANYTHING .... ( other than being a " figurehead " )

[X-Terminator]

colbert could go today without upsetting the apple cart any more than it already is ... guess tomlin could too because I do not think he is doing ANYTHING .... ( other than being a " figurehead " )

Glad I'm not the only one who thinks Tomlin is just a figurehead. It doesn't absolve him of blame for what's happened to the team, but it DOES explain a lot of things. He's a puppet, a head coach in name only, only does what he's told to do by upper management.

[Dwinsgames]

Glad I'm not the only one who thinks Tomlin is just a figurehead. It doesn't absolve him of blame for what's happened to the team, but it DOES explain a lot of things. He's a puppet, a head coach in name only, only does what he's told to do by upper management.

we agree except for the bold ...

I think the assistants basically run the show with Tomlin as a mouthpiece whether it was by design or not I have no idea ( soundbytes are his game ) hell I could be wrong and have NOTHING to substantiate it other than a gut feeling ... but it is a strong feeling

[steelreserve]

If I were Art II? I'd go back to practicing law and hire a team president who knew what the hell he was doing.

[Lambert_Loonie]

So who are you replacing the people you're firing with?

No matter how many "Fire/trade ___" threads there are, nobody every knows who they want to replace the person called into question with.

[Dwinsgames]

So who are you replacing the people you're firing with?

No matter how many "Fire/trade ___" threads there are, nobody every knows who they want to replace the person called into question with.

that is what the interview process is for ....

at this point we have no clue who will be available from the pro ranks , nor do we know for sure what college coaches will be available or who may want to make the leap ....

hard to answer a question of who when none of that has been established at this point

[Shoes]

How about Notre Dames Brian Kelly?

"Kelly has won in three challenging turnaround jobs -- Central Michigan, Cincinnati and Notre Dame. He has a very good understanding of offensive matchups and he's shown a good feel for evaluating personnel."

[silver & black]

Glad I'm not the only one who thinks Tomlin is just a figurehead. It doesn't absolve him of blame for what's happened to the team, but it DOES explain a lot of things. He's a puppet, a head coach in name only, only does what he's told to do by upper management.

Are you saying the Steelers are being run like the Raiders were under Al...... only a bit better?

[st33lersguy]

I would at least fire Colbert, Tomlin and both coordinators. I'd let the GM and the head coach decide on which position coaches to keep

[X-Terminator]

Are you saying the Steelers are being run like the Raiders were under Al...... only a bit better?

Not nearly to that extent, but some similarities are there with Art II. Some fans...in fact, most fans...don't want to acknowledge it. That's fine. But to me, ever since he gave his "mandate" after "retiring" Bruce Arians, the team has been very stagnant and has not improved all that much except in individual positions. I said back then that it was a mistake for him to get involved in the football decisions, and I stand by that today. He's a lawyer with NO football experience besides bloodlines. He has no business telling the football ops how it should be run. I want another Dan Rooney, not another Al Davis or Jerry Jones. I know you're a Raider fan, but check out the article by Mark Madden that was posted in this forum. He says a lot of what I've been saying for the past 3 years.

[Buckinnuts]

fire tomlin go after j gruden

[X-Terminator]

fire tomlin go after j gruden

Um, NO. There is a reason why Gruden has been on TV for most of the past decade. He was TERRIBLE as a head coach aside from his Super Bowl appearance. Now if you want him to replace Todd Haley, I'd have no issue with that.

[Dwinsgames]

no mandate was ever constituted ....

100% speculation ...

all he said is " we need to run the ball more effectively " at a time when we where rushing for under 3 ypc ...something anyone that knows anything about football would say ... no mandate there it was a statement nothing more or less ........

you can have a gut feeling and talk about it but say look I have no proof I just have a gut feeling this is going on ....

but please don't state things as if they are documented fact when they are not ... because that is what we rip " journalists/ columnists" for on a daily basis .
don't be a product of your own condemnation

cheers

http://www.steelers.com/news/article-1/Some-offseason-observations/65f35074-5df8-4175-a19a-17fdb803724f


The Steelers are united in their desire to improve the running game:
As Steelers President Art Rooney II said a couple of years ago, the idea will be to run the ball more effectively as opposed to more often.

[X-Terminator]

no mandate was ever constituted ....

100% speculation ...

all he said is " we need to run the ball more effectively " at a time when we where rushing for under 3 ypc ...something anyone that knows anything about football would say ... no mandate there it was a statement nothing more or less ........

you can have a gut feeling and talk about it but say look I have no proof I just have a gut feeling this is going on ....

but please don't state things as if they are documented fact when they are not ... because that is what we rip " journalists/ columnists" for on a daily basis .
don't be a product of your own condemnation

cheers

It is most definitely a gut feeling. I really believe this is going on, and I certainly do not expect anyone to agree. All I have to go on is what was said in public and what has happened since. I mean, speculation is what we do. Look at how much we rip the coaches for things that we think goes on behind the scenes...meanwhile not one of us knows what goes on behind closed doors.

[Dwinsgames]

It is most definitely a gut feeling. I really believe this is going on, and I certainly do not expect anyone to agree. All I have to go on is what was said in public and what has happened since. I mean, speculation is what we do. Look at how much we rip the coaches for things that we think goes on behind the scenes...meanwhile not one of us knows what goes on behind closed doors.

we have evidence of what goes on via the play on the field and lack of preparedness , motivation , discipline etc...

we have no evidence of a mandate cause we throw the ball 60% of the time prior to and since and that is documented

[Devilsdancefloor]

If I were Art II? I'd go back to practicing law and hire a team president who knew what the hell he was doing.

this this this!!!! i really think the AR2 gets to involved in WTF is going on he needs to step back. But i think they alrady have their GM in Omar Khan just get rid of Colbert as far as the D i would like to see Butler get the job, but i am pretty loyal kind of guy and i beleive the only reason he hasnt left to be a DC somewhere else is because he was promised the job. plus he has enough balls to yell at his player and geting angry when they didnt draft arthur brown in the 2nd round and we lost out on him to the ratbirds. i really think the more and more i see things Tomlin is AR2 yes man

[Dwinsgames]

this this this!!!! i really think the AR2 gets to involved in WTF is going on he needs to step back. But i think they alrady have their GM in Omar Khan just get rid of Colbert as far as the D i would like to see Butler get the job, but i am pretty loyal kind of guy and i beleive the only reason he hasnt left to be a DC somewhere else is because he was promised the job. plus he has enough balls to yell at his player and geting angry when they didnt draft arthur brown in the 2nd round and we lost out on him to the ratbirds. i really think the more and more i see things Tomlin is AR2 yes man


speaking of arthur brown .... what a disappointment he has been as a prospect ... relegated to ST in his second year when he had an open shot at a starting gig

[X-Terminator]

we have evidence of what goes on via the play on the field and lack of preparedness , motivation , discipline etc...

we have no evidence of a mandate cause we throw the ball 60% of the time prior to and since and that is documented

And yet, it's still speculation as far as what happens off the field, because unless you are sitting in the meetings, practices, etc., you really have no idea what goes on behind closed doors. We can only go by what we see on the field and base our thoughts/feelings from it. We're fans...that's what we do.

Let's just put it this way...I'm not alone in that thinking about Art II being too much of a meddler. Just check out this thread. And I'll simply leave it at that, because we are never going to agree, which again is perfectly fine. It's a message board of opinions.

[Dwinsgames]

And yet, it's still speculation as far as what happens off the field, because unless you are sitting in the meetings, practices, etc., you really have no idea what goes on behind closed doors. We can only go by what we see on the field and base our thoughts/feelings from it. We're fans...that's what we do.

Let's just put it this way...I'm not alone in that thinking about Art II being too much of a meddler. Just check out this thread. And I'll simply leave it at that, because we are never going to agree, which again is perfectly fine. It's a message board of opinions.

cheers

[Steelerette]

So who are you replacing the people you're firing with?

No matter how many "Fire/trade ___" threads there are, nobody every knows who they want to replace the person called into question with.

GM Phil Savage

HC Rob Chudzinski

[X-Terminator]

GM Phil Savage

HC Rob Chudzinski

Heads might explode in Cleveland.

[86WARD]

fire tomlin go after j gruden

It pains me to say it, but Tomlin >>>>> Gruden. Gruden is a fraud.

[Shoes]

It pains me to say it, but Tomlin >>>>> Gruden. Gruden is a fraud.

Yes, they strike me as two peas in a pod.

[Steelerette]

Heads might explode in Cleveland.

They might. But I can't think of a better GM candidate who's not already a GM (though I guess he's up there in Philly). Jury is still out on Chudz but I think the Browns were nuts to fire him.

[Steeldude]

I have never been a fan of Tomlin, but I wouldn't fire anyone during the season.

[MrPgh]

we have evidence of what goes on via the play on the field and lack of preparedness , motivation , discipline etc...

we have no evidence of a mandate cause we throw the ball 60% of the time prior to and since and that is documented

When the team is 19-19 over the last three seasons, of course they've thrown the ball a lot - they've had to play catch up far too often. Rather than letting Ben win the game early on, they try to establish a small-ball chicken shit offense by handing off or by throwing bubble screens. Only when they're down (like against Cleveland) they ask Ben to bail them out. Then these yinzers who really don't know what they're watching look at the stat sheet and go "HURR! IT WAS BEN'S FAULT N'AT!" when really the Steelers as a whole approach the game in an outdated manner.

Suspicions about Art II meddling is justified. A lawyer shouldn't be talking about run-pass ratio. Let the football people do that. Art II should hire a team president, then let the president pick the GM, then let the GM pick the head coach, and let the head coach pick his coordinators and staff. If Art II won't do that, then he's not putting the team first, but rather his own ego.

[silver & black]

It pains me to say it, but Tomlin >>>>> Gruden. Gruden is a fraud.

Well.......... I happen to agree with you about Gruden. Raider Nation is enamored with him. He was good for the Raiders at the time. His attitude, scowl....all worked because of the personnel we had. He just "fit" at the right time. He would have probably won a SB if he had stayed, although that certainly isn't/wasn't a given.

He won a SB in TB simply because he knew exactly what the Raiders were going to/would do... and Callahan was just too damn bull headed/stupid to change the signals/calls.... knowing full well Gruden built that team and knew it inside and out. The TB players said it was just too easy because they knew what was coming 99% of the time.

What did he accomplish after his gift SB win? And now, Raider Nation is screaming for Gruden to come back at the end of the season. No thanks! You don't need him either.