James Harrison: Dick LeBeau not responsible for decline of Steelers defense

[stillers4me]

James Harrison, once the ringleader of one of the most-feared defenses in the NFL, has a message for those who think the Steelers defense is outdated and defensive coordinator Dick LeBeau has lost his touch.

They are wrong.

“I hear coach LeBeau, a lot of people say he’s too old,” Harrison said. “That’s bull. The defense works. Players have to play the defense. Period. It’s on the players.”

Just three games after he returned as a backup outside linebacker, Harrison is not only annoyed at suggestions the Steelers need to change their style of defense; he is bothered by comments made by two former team members — coach Bill Cowher and wide receiver Hines Ward — that the defense is “soft.”

That prompted Harrison, a five-time Pro Bowler, to stand up for the defensive system the Steelers have employed for years and the man responsible for orchestrating its schemes...........

read more @ http://www.post-gazette.com/sports/steelers/2014/10/17/James-Harrison-Dick-LeBeau-not-responsible-for-decline-of-Steelers-defense/stories/201410170114

[zulater]

I admire his loyalty, and respect his opinion. But I still think a coach needs to adjust to the talent at hand. When coach LeBeau had Aaron Smith, Casey Hampton, James Farrior, James Harrison ( in his prime) his system was above all others! Great vets who knew their role and didn't have to hesitate to consider their assignment then absolutely it would still work. But with the current cast of inexperienced misfits coach LeBeau needs to dum it down a little.

[Steeldude]

I admire his loyalty, and respect his opinion. But I still think a coach needs to adjust to the talent at hand. When coach LeBeau had Aaron Smith, Casey Hampton, James Farrior, James Harrison ( in his prime) his system was above all others! Great vets who knew their role and didn't have to hesitate to consider their assignment then absolutely it would still work. But with the current cast of inexperienced misfits coach LeBeau needs to dum it down a little.

On the other hand, the talent acquired by Colbert and Tomlin may not be fit to start and succeed in any system, no matter how simple.

[Dwinsgames]

On the other hand, the talent acquired by Colbert and Tomlin may not be fit to start and succeed in any system, no matter how simple.

THIS ...

and for the most part that is the issue on def ...

[Dwinsgames]

as a side note ....

Lebeau was hired to employ HIS system ...

Haley hired to employ his ....

it is Colberts job to ensure they have the proper men in place to do so ....

so who is failing and who is getting the brunt of the criticism , may not be one in the same ...

after all the common denominator of Lebeau and Hailey is Colbert - Tomlin

[zulater]

as a side note ....

Lebeau was hired to employ HIS system ...

Haley hired to employ his ....

it is Colberts job to ensure they have the proper men in place to do so ....

so who is failing and who is getting the brunt of the criticism , may not be one in the same ...

after all the common denominator of Lebeau and Hailey is Colbert - Tomlin

It was a lot easier to supply the system when only a handful of teams employed the system.An Aaron Smith type talent wouldn't fall to the 4th round these days. James Farrior wouldn't pass through free agency so easy.

[Dwinsgames]

It was a lot easier to supply the system when only a handful of teams employed the system.An Aaron Smith type talent wouldn't fall to the 4th round these days. James Farrior wouldn't pass through free agency so easy.

honestly still not lebeus problem , its his job to coach the scheme . its colberts job to supply the players ...

you cant bake a good cake if whomever does the shopping buys liver in place of eggs

[Psycho Ward 86]

if i were an undrafted free agent and had a father figure that coached me up into a DPOY and 4x pro bowler i would probably defend him to the death too.

[st33lersguy]

Too many blown leads recently, too many points given up, not enough pressure dialed up. LeBeau has a tendency to play too soft. I'm sorry LeBeau should not be left off the hook just because he is a living legend. I honestly wish some people would stop letting LeBeau off the hook

[Dwinsgames]

Too many blown leads recently, too many points given up, not enough pressure dialed up. LeBeau has a tendency to play too soft. I'm sorry LeBeau should not be left off the hook just because he is a living legend

fedx cant deliver without trucks

[st33lersguy]

fedx cant deliver without trucks

LeBeau has to take some of the blame. For one, the Steelers have blown a lot of leads the last few years and LeBeau is partially to blame for his refusal to not run the prevent defense. Another thing to consider is maybe he should be making some adjustments to his gameplan to help solve the problems plaguing them. If he doesn't have the players, he needs to do what he can with what he's got and that is not happening

[steelreserve]

It was a lot easier to supply the system when only a handful of teams employed the system. An Aaron Smith type talent wouldn't fall to the 4th round these days. James Farrior wouldn't pass through free agency so easy.

That's the most overused argument in history. All the other teams in the league are looking at the same drafts and the same free agent classes as us. Why are we the ones struggling?

"Oh no, everybody else took all the good players!" Well whoopty-fucking-doo. It's a professional competition, what the hell were we doing in the meantime? Everybody else adjusts and we don't, so we're the ones who eat it? Sounds like that's our fault, not something that, waaah, just randomly happened and poor us, we were doing everything right but we couldn't control it. Maybe our drafting's wrong, maybe our system's wrong, maybe it's a little of both. It's not something that happened to us out of the blue. There are NO EXCUSES for not putting together a winning football team. You either do or you don't. And your philosophy and tradition both count for exactly dick.

[Dwinsgames]

LeBeau has to take some of the blame. For one, the Steelers have blown a lot of leads the last few years and LeBeau is partially to blame for his refusal to not run the prevent defense. Another thing to consider is maybe he should be making some adjustments to his gameplan to help solve the problems plaguing them. If he doesn't have the players, he needs to do what he can with what he's got and that is not happening


he has its called Steve Mclendon and insert player here we have trotted out in Place of Aaron Smith since Smith was injured late in his career and no longer the player he once was ....

again he was hired to run HIS scheme , his scheme requires two men that can occupy 2 blocker on the D-Line and since Big Snack and a healthy Aaron Smith he has not had anybody capable of doing that job ...

so he has " tried " to make do but putting Liver in place of Eggs but that just does not bake a very palatable Cake ..... The man in change of stocking the shelves has not provided him the proper ingredients

[zulater]

That's the most overused argument in history. All the other teams in the league are looking at the same drafts and the same free agent classes as us. Why are we the ones struggling?

"Oh no, everybody else took all the good players!" Well whoopty-fucking-doo. It's a professional competition, what the hell were we doing in the meantime? Everybody else adjusts and we don't, so we're the ones who eat it? Sounds like that's our fault, not something that, waaah, just randomly happened and poor us, we were doing everything right but we couldn't control it. Maybe our drafting's wrong, maybe our system's wrong, maybe it's a little of both. It's not something that happened to us out of the blue. There are NO EXCUSES for not putting together a winning football team. You either do or you don't. And your philosophy and tradition both count for exactly dick.


Regardless. Colbert is no less or more to blame for what's going on than Tomlin, LeBeau, and Haley. Truthfully all should be looked at harshly for the current state of the team.

And also Omar Khan and the Rooney's for letting too many good players get away lately

[Dwinsgames]

Regardless. Colbert is no less or more to blame for what's going on than Tomlin, LeBeau, and Haley. Truthfully all should be looked at harshly for the current state of the team.

And also Omar Khan and the Rooney's for letting too many good players get away lately


I guess the depends if you believe the talent is on the current roster to be better than a 500 football team or not ...

if you believe the talent level dictates 500 or less it is very much slanted towards Colbert being the biggest culprit

if you believe this roster is plenty capable of 600 football then that scale balances out some in perspective to blame .....

if you believe this roster is kickass and its just mismanaged and under coached then same scale dramatically moves towards a coaching staff problem .....

I think its a combination of things ...

1) square peg round hole ( gross miss evaluational of talent by scouts and GM , and lack of understanding what a proper 3-4 parts and pieces are ) Blame Colbert

2) close to zero player development , over paying for under performing players Blame Colbert and coaching staff

3) total lack of discipline team wide Blame Tomlin

4) lack of team preparedness Blame Tomlin

there are plenty more reasons but these for me are the most glaring

[86WARD]

honestly still not lebeus problem , its his job to coach the scheme . its colberts job to supply the players ...

you cant bake a good cake if whomever does the shopping buys liver in place of eggs

QFT

[steelreserve]

I guess the depends if you believe the talent is on the current roster to be better than a 500 football team or not ...

if you believe the talent level dictates 500 or less it is very much slanted towards Colbert being the biggest culprit

if you believe this roster is plenty capable of 600 football then that scale balances out some in perspective to blame .....

if you believe this roster is kickass and its just mismanaged and under coached then same scale dramatically moves towards a coaching staff problem .....

I think its a combination of things ...

1) square peg round hole ( gross miss evaluational of talent by scouts and GM , and lack of understanding what a proper 3-4 parts and pieces are ) Blame Colbert

2) close to zero player development , over paying for under performing players Blame Colbert and coaching staff

3) total lack of discipline team wide Blame Tomlin

4) lack of team preparedness Blame Tomlin

there are plenty more reasons but these for me are the most glaring


I don't think it's possible to summarize our issues better than this. Depending on how much the head coach is involved in the draft (AND A HEAD COACH SHOULD BE), you can put Tomlin under #1 also. I can't claim to know what goes on behind closed doors, but it does look like our drafts have taken on a very much different "personality" under Tomlin than previously. #2, 3 and 4 are so blatant that there's no doubt.

It's clear to me Tomlin's not someone who is capable of leading this football team; the question is who else needs to be shown the door with him. Colbert, I could go either way. I do think the talent on this team is better than its performance would indicate, but it's hard to tell when our overall progress and weekly focus mirrors that of someone with a .32 blood-alcohol level.

[zulater]

Here's my thought. If you're given the ingredients to make meat loaf, but insist on trying to make Beef Wellington you've got to accept some responsibility when dinner turns out lousy.

[Count Steeler]

Here's my thought. If you're given the ingredients to make meat loaf, but insist on trying to make Beef Wellington you've got to accept some responsibility when dinner turns out lousy.

If you give your chef ingredients to make meatloaf and you hired him to make Beef Wellington, maybe you should consider hiring a different chef?

[Dwinsgames]

Here's my thought. If you're given the ingredients to make meat loaf, but insist on trying to make Beef Wellington you've got to accept some responsibility when dinner turns out lousy.


but if you are Hired to serve Beef Wellington and the guy doing the shopping insists on giving you the ingredients for Meat Loaf , how can you fault the Chef for sticking to the Menu he was hired to serve ?

[ALLD]

Drafts have been no good and the players are out of sync. Jack Lambert would puke if he had to deal with some of these clowns.

[zulater]

Look at Dallas. Look at the change a defensive coordinator can make for a team. Everyone said they had the worst defensive talent in the league coming into the season. They lost their best linebacker to a preseason injury. They lost their best defensive lineman to free agency. But somehow they found a way to make it work. Granted DeMarco Murray keeps them off the field for large chunks of the game. But hell I think the Steelers are among the leaders for TOP. So we don't really have that excuse. Anyway sometimes you got to settle for goulash and make what's in the cupboard work. As much as I admire and respect LeBeau I think you have to at least consider that he should dummy down his system if it's keeping good young players off the field or has them too confused to react in time when they're on it. .

[Dwinsgames]

Look at Dallas. Look at the change a defensive coordinator can make for a team. Everyone said they had the worst defensive talent in the league coming into the season. They lost their best linebacker to a preseason injury. They lost their best defensive lineman to free agency. But somehow they found a way to make it work. Granted DeMarco Murray keeps them off the field for large chunks of the game. But hell I think the Steelers are among the leaders for TOP. So we don't really have that excuse. Anyway sometimes you got to settle for goulash and make what's in the cupboard work. As much as I admire and respect LeBeau I think you have to at least consider that he should dummy down his system if it's keeping good young players off the field or has them too confused to react in time when they're on it. .


doesnt hurt that dallas also benefited on taking a chance on Rolando McClain who went from bust to probably NFL comeback player of the year to replace their injured linebacker with ... ( something I wanted us to do last year if you recall )

and probably the most significant difference is they are averaging 28 points per game as a team rank 5 in league ( we are just barely over 20 and ranked 24th )

their Def is giving up on average of 21 pts per game and we are giving up 23.2 .....

we give up more points and score less points .... couple in we are the most penalized team in the league and that probably is a 10 point per game swing against us via extended drives and drive killing errors

[zulater]

So you think LeBeau is doing a great job this year?

[Count Steeler]

Look at Dallas. Look at the change a defensive coordinator can make for a team. Everyone said they had the worst defensive talent in the league coming into the season. They lost their best linebacker to a preseason injury. They lost their best defensive lineman to free agency. But somehow they found a way to make it work. Granted DeMarco Murray keeps them off the field for large chunks of the game. But hell I think the Steelers are among the leaders for TOP. So we don't really have that excuse. Anyway sometimes you got to settle for goulash and make what's in the cupboard work. As much as I admire and respect LeBeau I think you have to at least consider that he should dummy down his system if it's keeping good young players off the field or has them too confused to react in time when they're on it. .

The key is a new DC. Different perspective, different personality. Somehow it works with the guys they have. Having the #1 rusher also helps, as you pointed out.

Worilds and Allen have been disappointments so far. Shazier is hurt. Too stubborn to change up the DL until McLendon got injured. Mitchell is a flop. Troy is at the tail end of his career.
Not many bright spots. LeBeau is going to be stubborn with his system, because it worked. This set of personnel doesn't seem to be getting it.

So if you want a different system, I think you have to change the DC.

[Dwinsgames]

So you think LeBeau is doing a great job this year?

I think he is suffering from lack of proper personnel ... he needs two guys on the LOS to take on a double team for the scheme he was hired to employ to work ... he has NONE capable

talk about handcuffed ......

its like to owning a car but only having two wheels , your not going to get to far with it ...or for you a horse with 2 legs and you are expected to have him ready to race and compete at a high level ...

you have no chance before the race even starts ...

so technically he MIGHT be doing his best job of his career when you consider the obstacles ? /ponder that for a moment

[zulater]

I think he is suffering from lack of proper personnel ... he needs two guys on the LOS to take on a double team for the scheme he was hired to employ to work ... he has NONE capable

talk about handcuffed ......

its like to owning a car but only having two wheels , your not going to get to far with it ...or for you a horse with 2 legs and you are expected to have him ready to race and compete at a high level ...

you have no chance before the race even starts ...

so technically he MIGHT be doing his best job of his career when you consider the obstacles ? /ponder that for a moment

I don't know? They haven't been a defense you can trust with a lead for quite a few years now.


I don't want to think bad of the guy. He's had a great career, and I'm sure if he had better talent he could do better. But I still suspect that he can't adjust his system to best utilize available talent. Just my opinion. :noidea:

[steelreserve]

I think he is suffering from lack of proper personnel ... he needs two guys on the LOS to take on a double team for the scheme he was hired to employ to work ... he has NONE capable

talk about handcuffed ......

its like to owning a car but only having two wheels , your not going to get to far with it ...or for you a horse with 2 legs and you are expected to have him ready to race and compete at a high level ...

you have no chance before the race even starts ...

so technically he MIGHT be doing his best job of his career when you consider the obstacles ? /ponder that for a moment


That's one way you could look at it. The other way is why, oh why, are you continuing to stick with the same plan when it's obvious you don't have the right parts to make it work? Why on earth did we not draft or sign a *REAL* nose tackle in the past five years? Don't say because there were none available. Again, every other team sees the same slate of players as we do every year; why are we the ones having problems?

To me, it's beginning to look like it wasn't "Lebeau's System" that was responsible for the defense being so successful for over a decade. It's looking more like there were just five or six freakishly talented players that made the scheme work, and possibly would've made any similar scheme work. And he doesn't get that all those players either retired or are no longer freakishly talented.

[Dwinsgames]

I don't know? They haven't been a defense you can trust with a lead for quite a few years now.


I don't want to think bad of the guy. He's had a great career, and I'm sure if he had better talent he could do better. But I still suspect that he can't adjust his system to best utilize available talent. Just my opinion. :noidea:

I get it I honestly do , some obstacles can be over come and others can not ... in a 3-4 if you do not have a front 3 with anyone able of taking on 2 blockers nothing else you do is going to matter short of converting to a 4-3 or getting guys who can play the 34 as intended

- - - Updated - - -


That's one way you could look at it. The other way is why, oh why, are you continuing to stick with the same plan when it's obvious you don't have the right parts to make it work? Why on earth did we not draft or sign a *REAL* nose tackle in the past five years? Don't say because there were none available. Again, every other team sees the same slate of players as we do every year; why are we the ones having problems?

To me, it's beginning to look like it wasn't "Lebeau's System" that was responsible for the defense being so successful for over a decade. It's looking more like there were just five or six freakishly talented players that made the scheme work, and possibly would've made any similar scheme work. And he doesn't get that all those players either retired or are no longer freakishly talented.

1 ) sounds like a conversation tailor made for Colbert

2) show me any successful team / side of the ball and I will show you 5-6 guys who are outstanding football players on it

[Mojouw]

9 Sacks and 3 INTs. There is the problem right there. In rush yards allowed, pass yards allowed, yards /attempt, yards/rush; the defense actually ranks in the top half of the league or better, but they can not rush the passer nor can they cause turnovers.

In comparison, in 2010 (last SB season) the team had 48 sacks. The total collapse of the pass rush in the past 3 years is the root of all the problems on defense.

[Dwinsgames]

9 Sacks and 3 INTs. There is the problem right there. In rush yards allowed, pass yards allowed, yards /attempt, yards/rush; the defense actually ranks in the top half of the league or better, but they can not rush the passer nor can they cause turnovers.

In comparison, in 2010 (last SB season) the team had 48 sacks. The total collapse of the pass rush in the past 3 years is the root of all the problems on defense.


why has it lacked ?

look when Aaron Smith and Casey Hampton last played on the LOS in unison ....

now we have arrived at full circle without 2 men capable of handling a double team on the LOS in Lebeaus 3 4 you are doomed before you start .....

is that a problem with the inventor of the specific scheme or the man responsible for making sure he has the ingredients to make it work ?

I say the latter .............

[Mojouw]

why has it lacked ?

look when Aaron Smith and Casey Hampton last played on the LOS in unison ....

now we have arrived at full circle without 2 men capable of handling a double team on the LOS in Lebeaus 3 4 you are doomed before you start .....

is that a problem with the inventor of the specific scheme or the man responsible for making sure he has the ingredients to make it work ?

I say the latter .............

That is definitely a contributing factor. Also the quality of players at the OLB position has cratered as well. Gildon to Porter to Harrison to Worilds as the "primary" rush linebacker. One of those names does not belong.

[Dwinsgames]

That is definitely a contributing factor. Also the quality of players at the OLB position has cratered as well. Gildon to Porter to Harrison to Worilds as the "primary" rush linebacker. One of those names does not belong.


while I understand the thought , not sure if it is even accurate as we have never seen him play with the men on the D-Line consistently doing its job in front of him ...

but not worth what he is being paid as is no doubt .....