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Dwinsgames
10-14-2014, 01:48 PM
Posted this in the draft section in response to a post but that section gets very little attention by most especially this time of year so thought it may be worth saying again here ...

I realize going in this it will not be well received by most but it is the reality we are currently facing , just not everyone would deal with it as I would ..

that is fine too as I am not so blind as to not be able to see both sides of the dilemma ....


I suggested last year we where a few drafts away without major change of being " competitive " and by competitive I mean contender ...

at some point Ben has to be a concern ... yes I know he is the best we have had since or maybe including Bradshaw but not going to start that debate here for obvious reasons ... Ben is getting no younger ... do we sit and waist the last few years of his "title run window " with a team incapable of making a big run or do we use him to leverage ourselves into a position to shorten our rebuild time and stay better longer ...

I was in favor of trading him last year to enable the team to get better sooner rather than later , most opposed this ... now we sit in the same situation with a team clearly not going any place and Ben yet another year older in the process ...

Ben is not the problem , but he is not part of the long term answer either ...

IF a team a QB away from a title run makes me the right offer I am not so sure I am quick to hang up the phone ... just sayin

MrPgh
10-14-2014, 02:09 PM
You should be bitching about ownership, the FO, and the coaching staff before you start bitching about any player, let alone the best one on the team.

Dwinsgames
10-14-2014, 02:14 PM
You should be bitching about ownership, the FO, and the coaching staff before you start bitching about any player, let alone the best one on the team.


damn you have ZERO reading comprehension skills

MrPgh
10-14-2014, 02:24 PM
damn you have ZERO reading comprehension skills

It's pretty easy to tell you're being passive aggressive with Ben. If you want to talk about this team being a contender again, then it's utterly idiotic to suggest the Steelers trade their best player.

How about we see how things work with Ben under a new GM, new coaching staff, and an owner that regulates all football decisions to the football people?

Dwinsgames
10-14-2014, 02:35 PM
It's pretty easy to tell you're being passive aggressive with Ben. If you want to talk about this team being a contender again, then it's utterly idiotic to suggest the Steelers trade their best player.

How about we see how things work with Ben under a new GM, new coaching staff, and an owner that regulates all football decisions to the football people?

as usual I post and you see what you think instead of what is written ...

carry on I wont be peeking at anything more you type.

Shoes
10-14-2014, 02:40 PM
Are there any really good QB's in the 15 draft?

st33lersguy
10-14-2014, 02:42 PM
Are there any really good QB's in the 15 draft?

No, the best this year's QB class has to offer is crab leg stealing basket case Jamies Winston

Moose
10-14-2014, 02:48 PM
No, the best this year's QB class has to offer is crab leg stealing basket case Jamies Winston

And he's not any good or even worth the look. Just my opinion from watching him and his attitude.

Dwinsgames
10-14-2014, 03:26 PM
Are there any really good QB's in the 15 draft?

not anything I am overly thrilled with , would not call any of them " franchise QBs " but you cant build all pieces at once regardless ...

is a franchise QB mandatory if you have a rock solid Def and a quality running game ?

can you consistently win with a guy who does not hurt you but isnt quite good enough to put the team on his back and carry them to victory ? I think yes many teams are doing that very thing now ....

look around the league , how many " franchise QBs " are there ( depends on what you classify as franchise I guess ) is there 3 , 5 , 7 of them ?

is Ben in that group ? if so what good has it done us lately ? we are 19-19 out of our last 38 .. could we do worse sure would it have mattered much if we lost 5 more out of those 38 ?

my point is he has only a few more years of quality ability should we mortgage the future to say he spent his entire career here and go no further the rest of his tenure ( and cost us a bunch of money in the process with new contract ) or would we be better off getting some high round picks or pick and solid young starter at say Tackle or CB ( a place of dire need) build this team back up and then draft a qb in 2 years once the pieces are there for him to succeed and play with a middle of the road Vet for 2 years ?

is this team close enough to merit keeping Ben for another run ?

do we want to keep him just for the sake of keeping him ?

keep emotions out of it and think long term after all football and the steelers do not end at the end of Bens career we need to look to when we can compete team wise again and figure out if he will likely be gone by then or still able to compete at a high enough level to be a difference maker at that point ... not everyone can play till 37-40 Ben is already an 11 year vet believe it or not ...

just kicking this around , would hate like hell to see him go but it does make more logical sense in terms of building a team to trade him based on age and teams anemic condition

Mojouw
10-14-2014, 03:48 PM
This is an interesting question, and I have tried to reason it out as best I can. This is how I see that scenario playing out:

Ben has 3 years left for sure of his "prime" after this season. Maybe another 2 after that.

What is a realistic return on Ben? Say 2 #1's and a 3rd for the sake of argument?

So you go into the 2015 draft with an extra #1 and and extra #3. Then you have an extra #1 in the 2016 draft. And a gaping hole at the QB position.

Your options are Bruce Gradkowski or one of the dirtballs on this list -- http://www.spotrac.com/free-agents/nfl/quarterback/ (If it was Hoyer, I would almost want it to happen to see everyone's reaction!)

Those all suck. I don't even see a caretaker QB on that list. Also, I do not think it is a good idea to "plan" to get your QB in a couple of years after other pieces are place -- it is way to hard to get one (on average) outside of the top 5 picks of the draft. What happens if you rebuild for 2 years, have a promising team and Gradkowski is the starter, your picking #12 and the top QB prospects are gone. That is how you end up drafting Christian Ponder. No thanks!

So that means a 2015 draft pick and you hope he can develop while playing. From a few lists I saw on the internet, the 2015 draft prospects are Winston, Mariotta and the field. No way the Steelers draft Winston. So now you have to get Mariotta. Better get teh #1 over-all pick to make sure you get your guy. That will take one of the 2015 1st round picks, one of the 2015 3rd round picks and one of the 2016 1st round picks. So the trade for Ben nets you the following:

1. # 1 Overall in 2015 - that turns into a rookie QB from a shallow draft class at the position.
2. Whatever player is selected with the remaining (likely original Steelers) 2015 1st round selection - say a CB.

If the Steelers do not trade Ben, they are in the exact same situation as they will most likely be in if they do trade him, except they will be running a lottery ticket out their out QB.

Now if some team makes the "Herschel Walker" offer or the "Dikta trades his whole draft for Ricky Williams" kind of foolishness -- then you have to listen. But a more "traditional" swap of player and picks gains you essentially nothing.

But I am likely over-looking a ton of things. Just how I see it. Although I truly hope that someone in the Steelers FO is paid to work through scenarios like this. I never believe any option should be off the table.

MrPgh
10-14-2014, 03:57 PM
This is an interesting question, and I have tried to reason it out as best I can. This is how I see that scenario playing out:

Ben has 3 years left for sure of his "prime" after this season. Maybe another 2 after that.

What is a realistic return on Ben? Say 2 #1's and a 3rd for the sake of argument?

So you go into the 2015 draft with an extra #1 and and extra #3. Then you have an extra #1 in the 2016 draft. And a gaping hole at the QB position.

Your options are Bruce Gradkowski or one of the dirtballs on this list -- http://www.spotrac.com/free-agents/nfl/quarterback/ (If it was Hoyer, I would almost want it to happen to see everyone's reaction!)

Those all suck. I don't even see a caretaker QB on that list. Also, I do not think it is a good idea to "plan" to get your QB in a couple of years after other pieces are place -- it is way to hard to get one (on average) outside of the top 5 picks of the draft. What happens if you rebuild for 2 years, have a promising team and Gradkowski is the starter, your picking #12 and the top QB prospects are gone. That is how you end up drafting Christian Ponder. No thanks!

So that means a 2015 draft pick and you hope he can develop while playing. From a few lists I saw on the internet, the 2015 draft prospects are Winston, Mariotta and the field. No way the Steelers draft Winston. So now you have to get Mariotta. Better get teh #1 over-all pick to make sure you get your guy. That will take one of the 2015 1st round picks, one of the 2015 3rd round picks and one of the 2016 1st round picks. So the trade for Ben nets you the following:

1. # 1 Overall in 2015 - that turns into a rookie QB from a shallow draft class at the position.
2. Whatever player is selected with the remaining (likely original Steelers) 2015 1st round selection - say a CB.

If the Steelers do not trade Ben, they are in the exact same situation as they will most likely be in if they do trade him, except they will be running a lottery ticket out their out QB.

Now if some team makes the "Herschel Walker" offer or the "Dikta trades his whole draft for Ricky Williams" kind of foolishness -- then you have to listen. But a more "traditional" swap of player and picks gains you essentially nothing.

But I am likely over-looking a ton of things. Just how I see it. Although I truly hope that someone in the Steelers FO is paid to work through scenarios like this. I never believe any option should be off the table.

How about my earlier point instead, change the people in management and the coaching staff. They've been badly mismanaging the last few years with Ben, what makes you think they would do a better job if he is gone?

Dwinsgames
10-14-2014, 04:18 PM
This is an interesting question, and I have tried to reason it out as best I can. This is how I see that scenario playing out:

Ben has 3 years left for sure of his "prime" after this season. Maybe another 2 after that.

What is a realistic return on Ben? Say 2 #1's and a 3rd for the sake of argument?

So you go into the 2015 draft with an extra #1 and and extra #3. Then you have an extra #1 in the 2016 draft. And a gaping hole at the QB position.

Your options are Bruce Gradkowski or one of the dirtballs on this list -- http://www.spotrac.com/free-agents/nfl/quarterback/ (If it was Hoyer, I would almost want it to happen to see everyone's reaction!)

Those all suck. I don't even see a caretaker QB on that list. Also, I do not think it is a good idea to "plan" to get your QB in a couple of years after other pieces are place -- it is way to hard to get one (on average) outside of the top 5 picks of the draft. What happens if you rebuild for 2 years, have a promising team and Gradkowski is the starter, your picking #12 and the top QB prospects are gone. That is how you end up drafting Christian Ponder. No thanks!

So that means a 2015 draft pick and you hope he can develop while playing. From a few lists I saw on the internet, the 2015 draft prospects are Winston, Mariotta and the field. No way the Steelers draft Winston. So now you have to get Mariotta. Better get teh #1 over-all pick to make sure you get your guy. That will take one of the 2015 1st round picks, one of the 2015 3rd round picks and one of the 2016 1st round picks. So the trade for Ben nets you the following:

1. # 1 Overall in 2015 - that turns into a rookie QB from a shallow draft class at the position.
2. Whatever player is selected with the remaining (likely original Steelers) 2015 1st round selection - say a CB.

If the Steelers do not trade Ben, they are in the exact same situation as they will most likely be in if they do trade him, except they will be running a lottery ticket out their out QB.

Now if some team makes the "Herschel Walker" offer or the "Dikta trades his whole draft for Ricky Williams" kind of foolishness -- then you have to listen. But a more "traditional" swap of player and picks gains you essentially nothing.

But I am likely over-looking a ton of things. Just how I see it. Although I truly hope that someone in the Steelers FO is paid to work through scenarios like this. I never believe any option should be off the table.


don't sell Conner Cook short , ( he may or may not come out ) fits steeler mold redshirt junior Big and tall has a rocket arm to throw " frozen ropes" mobile enough and can make all the throws ... always looking downfield with his eyes .

the one knock he may have is his footwork when he leaves the pocket , instead of setting properly before making the throw he most times arm throws and muscles the ball downfield ... so needs some work but I suspect if he declares he could go in the first round and would not be a reach ( perhaps most upside of any QB in this draft IMO ) he has the tools

zulater
10-14-2014, 04:20 PM
Stupid as it sounds if you traded Ben you know who I would sign as the qb next year. Mark Sanchez. That's who. He had no weapons in New York. Terrible offensive coaching. Hard to imagine any young qb succeeding there. Plus he got a mediocre team to the AFC championship game twice. And won road playoff games both years.

But more to the point if you get rid of Ben the focal point of your franchise becomes LeVeon Bell. I wonder if you wouldn't be better off with a guy like Sanchez a game manager, a guy who is willing to be the second banana? Sanchez also is good off play- action. If you get good return on Ben I think you could put a decent team on the field with Sanchez behind center .

steelreserve
10-14-2014, 04:32 PM
No, no, ... the coaching staff is what's holding us back. I understand what you're saying about Ben not being part of a long-term rebuilding program - but if the same coaches are in place, there won't be any rebuilding. We'll just continue to get worse.

With Ben gone, the decline would just be even quicker, and whatever QB-of-the-future prospect we draft will either be a bust, or be mistaken for one.

I guess you could argue that right now, Ben is the main thing standing between Tomlin and the unemployment line because he's the only thing keeping us from going 3-13 instead of 8-8. So at least the silver lining would be that 3-13 hastens Tomlin out the door. I could almost stomach that if I knew it was the only way. But I am hoping that Art II can pull his head out of his ass long enough this offseason to look around and see the sorry state of the team, and the Groundhog Day drafts, and the steady decline that has taken place - and I mean so steady you can set your watch by it - and figure it the hell out, so we can move on.

I really, really don't think the talent of the players is to blame here, at least not fully. We may not be championship-level talented, but we certainly have the talent to be better than THIS, and whatever talent we do have has been badly mismanaged. Fuck this. Fuck Tomlin, fuck Rooney, fuck Fight Club, just - fuck it.

Mojouw
10-14-2014, 04:48 PM
don't sell Conner Cook short , ( he may or may not come out ) fits steeler mold redshirt junior Big and tall has a rocket arm to throw " frozen ropes" mobile enough and can make all the throws ... always looking downfield with his eyes .

the one knock he may have is his footwork when he leaves the pocket , instead of setting properly before making the throw he most times arm throws and muscles the ball downfield ... so needs some work but I suspect if he declares he could go in the first round and would not be a reach ( perhaps most upside of any QB in this draft IMO ) he has the tools

You would know far better than me. I couldn't pick a draft prospect out of a line-up until about March or April of every year when there is a bunch of easily available information.

The point being is that I am not sure you really pick up that many "chips" to rebuild with. Somewhere between 1-4 of them is going to go to replacing Ben.

Dwinsgames
10-14-2014, 05:02 PM
You would know far better than me. I couldn't pick a draft prospect out of a line-up until about March or April of every year when there is a bunch of easily available information.

The point being is that I am not sure you really pick up that many "chips" to rebuild with. Somewhere between 1-4 of them is going to go to replacing Ben.

that really depends ..if you get two #1's and a 3 or pair of 3's .... could potentially replace Ben with 1 pick and have 3 "additional chips " plus your normal draft allotment of selections to improve over 2 years ...and a BUNCH of money to spend because you no longer have that fat contract hanging over your head ......

Mojouw
10-14-2014, 05:12 PM
that really depends ..if you get two #1's and a 3 or pair of 3's .... could potentially replace Ben with 1 pick and have 3 "additional chips " plus your normal draft allotment of selections to improve over 2 years ...and a BUNCH of money to spend because you no longer have that fat contract hanging over your head ......

I just think that banking on replacing Ben with a pick outside of the top 3 spots in the draft leads to taking the 2015 version of Brandon Weeden, J.P. Losman, Jake Locker, Christian Ponder, etc. That leads to wandering the Franchise QB wilderness for years until you convince yourself that A guy like Ryan Tannehill or Geno Smith is the answer.

I don't want to take home who looks "okay" at the end of the night from the bar. I want to get there early, make a good impression and go home with someone great. Bad analogy, but that will take a lot of draft picks to move around the board to ensure that in 2015 or 2016 you are in position to take a "franchise" type prospect.

I just really believe that you burn up most of the picks you get back attempting to hold serve on the QB position. The salary cap is a much different issue. That has some interesting merit.

The question being that now that the cap is going up and is projected to go up yearly for some time, does anyone any damn good (in the context of a rebuild - young and talented) actually hit the market?

Dwinsgames
10-14-2014, 05:34 PM
I just think that banking on replacing Ben with a pick outside of the top 3 spots in the draft leads to taking the 2015 version of Brandon Weeden, J.P. Losman, Jake Locker, Christian Ponder, etc. That leads to wandering the Franchise QB wilderness for years until you convince yourself that A guy like Ryan Tannehill or Geno Smith is the answer.

I don't want to take home who looks "okay" at the end of the night from the bar. I want to get there early, make a good impression and go home with someone great. Bad analogy, but that will take a lot of draft picks to move around the board to ensure that in 2015 or 2016 you are in position to take a "franchise" type prospect.

I just really believe that you burn up most of the picks you get back attempting to hold serve on the QB position. The salary cap is a much different issue. That has some interesting merit.

The question being that now that the cap is going up and is projected to go up yearly for some time, does anyone any damn good (in the context of a rebuild - young and talented) actually hit the market?


I think its a combination of the two ... not getting younger and new contract due at record $$$'s and by the time the team is ready to make a major challenge at a championship he will be closer to moving out to pasture and taking with him a ton of $$ that could have been used to secure other spots for long after he is gone ...

again love and appreciate Ben and we could put up a solid debate that he may be the best the franchise ever had ( and I am from the Bradshaw era as well ) and its a close call ....

st33lersguy
10-14-2014, 06:15 PM
Stupid as it sounds if you traded Ben you know who I would sign as the qb next year. Mark Sanchez. That's who. He had no weapons in New York. Terrible offensive coaching. Hard to imagine any young qb succeeding there. Plus he got a mediocre team to the AFC championship game twice. And won road playoff games both years.

But more to the point if you get rid of Ben the focal point of your franchise becomes LeVeon Bell. I wonder if you wouldn't be better off with a guy like Sanchez a game manager, a guy who is willing to be the second banana? Sanchez also is good off play- action. If you get good return on Ben I think you could put a decent team on the field with Sanchez behind center.

The Jets had a top 5 defense, a top 5 rushing attack, and a top tier offensive line both those years. Butt Fumble was nothing more than a passenger. Outside of those playoff wins that he was carried to, what did Butt Fumble ever do to deserve another chance at a starting job

86WARD
10-14-2014, 06:25 PM
In this day and age, a franchise can be turned around in two seasons...some times less. With Ben that is possible. Trading Ben puts the team into the realm of obscurity for a very long time. Mark Sanchez? Lol. Not even close to the answer...Sanchez? Good one. :applaudit:

zulater
10-14-2014, 06:37 PM
The Jets had a top 5 defense, a top 5 rushing attack, and a top tier offensive line both those years. Butt Fumble was nothing more than a passenger. Outside of those playoff wins that he was carried to, what did Butt Fumble ever do to deserve another chance at a starting job

If we get out of it's way we should have a top five rushing attack.

And did you ever check out Steve Young's numbers in Tampa Bay? Jim Plunkett in Boston? Doug Williams in Tampa Bay? The Jets had zero offensive supporting cast the last couple years "butt fumble" was there. Hard to envision anyone doing good there.

Craic
10-14-2014, 06:37 PM
To answer the original question: no. He's moving into an age where we are just as dependent upon his ability to lead and groom as we are his ability to play. For some reason, that link has been broken over the last couple of years. I don't want to shear it off completely by getting rid of Ben.

Now, if we turn around, become a team on the rise, but need a couple pieces to get over the hump, then we trade Ben for a middle grade first round pick, match it with our first round pick, and go high to pick up a QB IF . . . we have ALREADY decided that's the guy we want. In other words, don't go fishing. But if the guy is there, then make it happen. But unless that scenario develops, we stay with Ben until he retires.

fansince'76
10-14-2014, 06:40 PM
Is a franchise QB mandatory if you have a rock solid Def and a quality running game ?


If you want to win a Super Bowl, yes. I think Cowher's first 14 years proved it. And it's even more true now with the new Arena League rules. Cincy has one of the most talented rosters in the league from top to bottom, and they're probably not going to win a damn thing outside of the AFC North title with it. Know why? One word: Dalton.

zulater
10-14-2014, 06:47 PM
In this day and age, a franchise can be turned around in two seasons...some times less. With Ben that is possible. Trading Ben puts the team into the realm of obscurity for a very long time. Mark Sanchez? Lol. Not even close to the answer...Sanchez? Good one. :applaudit:


So were you saying that when Sanchez rallied the Jets with two second half touchdown passes to nearly erase a Steelers 21 point lead in the 2011 AFC title game?

fansince'76
10-14-2014, 06:54 PM
To answer the original question: no. He's moving into an age where we are just as dependent upon his ability to lead and groom as we are his ability to play. For some reason, that link has been broken over the last couple of years. I don't want to shear it off completely by getting rid of Ben.

Now, if we turn around, become a team on the rise, but need a couple pieces to get over the hump, then we trade Ben for a middle grade first round pick, match it with our first round pick, and go high to pick up a QB IF . . . we have ALREADY decided that's the guy we want. In other words, don't go fishing. But if the guy is there, then make it happen. But unless that scenario develops, we stay with Ben until he retires.

Sounds reasonable, and then I remembered the last QB we took in the first before Ben was Mark Malone...

Dwinsgames
10-14-2014, 07:08 PM
or we could just pay him a kings ransom and wait for him to retire , get nothing in return and have less picks to try and replace him with and complain the FO was to stupid to deal him when he still had some worth ...

st33lersguy
10-14-2014, 07:15 PM
If we get out of it's way we should have a top five rushing attack.

And did you ever check out Steve Young's numbers in Tampa Bay? Jim Plunkett in Boston? Doug Williams in Tampa Bay? The Jets had zero offensive supporting cast the last couple years "butt fumble" was there. Hard to envision anyone doing good there.

Sanchez's career high in completion percentage was 56.7%, his career high QB rating was was 78.2 (a QB the good QBs usually achieve is at least 90), he threw more INTs than TDs in 2 of his 4 seasons and for his career, and had 89 career turnovers (INTs and fumbles lost) in his career and only once did he commit less than 20 turnovers. He threw for more than 20 TDs once in his career, and this is for his entire career as a starter. Your insistence that somehow he is a viable option as a starting QB is laughable

Godfather
10-14-2014, 07:31 PM
is a franchise QB mandatory if you have a rock solid Def and a quality running game ?


http://manhattaninfidel.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/bertportrait.jpg



look around the league , how many " franchise QBs " are there ( depends on what you classify as franchise I guess ) is there 3 , 5 , 7 of them ?

Breesus, Peyton, and (much as I hate to say it) Marsha. Maybe Aaron Rodgers.


is Ben in that group ? if so what good has it done us lately ? we are 19-19 out of our last 38 .. could we do worse sure would it have mattered much if we lost 5 more out of those 38 ?

Another way to look at it: What if we had Ryan Leaf under center the last two weeks? Would we have one offensive touchdown instead of two?


my point is he has only a few more years of quality ability should we mortgage the future to say he spent his entire career here and go no further the rest of his tenure ( and cost us a bunch of money in the process with new contract ) or would we be better off getting some high round picks or pick and solid young starter at say Tackle or CB ( a place of dire need) build this team back up and then draft a qb in 2 years once the pieces are there for him to succeed and play with a middle of the road Vet for 2 years ?

If some team is dumb enough to throw a Herschel Walker/Ricky Williams batch of draft picks at us (I'm looking at Dallas, Washington, and Oakland), it might be in the best long-term interest of the team to listen. Of course, Colbert would squander all those draft picks anyway.

Not really on the Trade Ben bandwagon but I also don't see us winning another Super Bowl with him.

zulater
10-14-2014, 07:35 PM
Sanchez's career high in completion percentage was 56.7%, his career high QB rating was was 78.2 (a QB the good QBs usually achieve is at least 90), he threw more INTs than TDs in 2 of his 4 seasons and for his career, and had 89 career turnovers (INTs and fumbles lost) in his career and only once did he commit less than 20 turnovers. He threw for more than 20 TDs once in his career, and this is for his entire career as a starter. Your insistence that somehow he is a viable option as a starting QB is laughable

Guess what he'll be a starter somewhere next season. Do I want it to be here? No not really. But the premise of this thread has us parting ways with Ben at the end of this season. Something that I believe to be a genuine possibility for reasons already discussed. So if Ben is gone someone has to start, and unless you got a better idea, this is a name that could pop up on the Steelers radar. So I brought it into the discussion.


But go on believe as you want. Think the Steelers after a 6-10 season, 3 straight non playoff years, four years without a playoff win are just going to put a blank check in front of Ben. Commit a 1/5 of your salary cap to one player when the team has multiple needs across the board. Yeah nothing to discuss here. :doh:

86WARD
10-14-2014, 07:35 PM
So were you saying that when Sanchez rallied the Jets with two second half touchdown passes to nearly erase a Steelers 21 point lead in the 2011 AFC title game?

So by your logic and comparing Sanchez to Steve Young (LOLOLOLOLOL) Brian Hoyer must be the next Dan Fouts?

Sanchez is garbage and just because he had a couple good games doesn't make him remotely close to the next Steve Young let alone a viable option to replace a top-5 QB.

"...two second half touchdown passes to NEARLY erase a Steelers 21 point lead..." That's just a laughable comment. Maybe someone hacked your account? I'm writing it off to that...

86WARD
10-14-2014, 07:41 PM
So if Ben is gone someone has to start, and unless you got a better idea, this is a name that could pop up on the Steelers radar. So I brought it into the discussion.

Colin Kaepernick, Jake Locker to name two that are extremely better than Mark Sanchez.

zulater
10-14-2014, 07:44 PM
So by your logic and comparing Sanchez to Steve Young (LOLOLOLOLOL) Brian Hoyer must be the next Dan Fouts?

Sanchez is garbage and just because he had a couple good games doesn't make him remotely close to the next Steve Young let alone a viable option to replace a top-5 QB.

"...two second half touchdown passes to NEARLY erase a Steelers 21 point lead..." That's just a laughable comment. Maybe someone hacked your account? I'm writing it off to that...

I'm saying it's unfair to judge a qb who has never played a meaningful down with a coach other than Rex Ryan as a bust. The guy has talent. I saw t this summer. I think this is a guy who could come alive when given a second chance.

You think it's funny, fine. Don't really give a shit what you think.

You mark my words though. Sanchez will get offers this offseason, and don't be shocked if he turns out to be a decent starter with a better offensive coaching staff and supporting cast. Last I got to say on it.

- - - Updated - - -


Colin Kaepernick, Jake Locker to name two that are extremely better than Mark Sanchez. Kaepernick will be tagged, not going anywhere. And Locker hasn't done a damn thing in this league. Least of all stay healtghy. what a fucking laugh that is. :sofunny:

st33lersguy
10-14-2014, 07:45 PM
Guess what he'll be a starter somewhere next season. Do I want it to be here? No not really. But the premise of this thread has us parting ways with Ben at the end of this season. Something that I believe to be a genuine possibility for reasons already discussed. So if Ben is gone someone has to start, and unless you got a better idea, this is a name that could pop up on the Steelers radar. So I brought it into the discussion.


But go on believe as you want. Think the Steelers after a 6-10 season, 3 straight non playoff years, four years without a playoff win are just going to put a blank check in front of Ben. Commit a 1/5 of your salary cap to one player when the team has multiple needs across the board. Yeah nothing to discuss here. :doh:

That's funny because you have been talking him up as a viable starting QB in this league, and what makes you think someone will sign him on as a starter this offseason after no one signed him to start last season especially if Foles stays healthy and he doesn't play a down? Honestly, if they let Ben go, the Steelers will probably draft someone to replace him, they will not sign Sanchez to replace Ben, that would be a disastrous PR move given his reputation as a stinky QB

Heinz Hitman
10-14-2014, 08:04 PM
I smell what you're cooking, Dwins.

I love Ben and think he is definitely the best QB to ever wear the black n gold. It would be great if he could stay here and everything else can magically get fixed before he is useless. And don't get me wrong - I do think that is a possibility. (well, maybe not the magic part). I think most of our problems is coaching - not just Tomlin, but also Haley and Lebeau. Game plans seem to be crap (if there ARE even any game plans prepared...) and the in-game adjustments are MIA. Every team is full of professional grade football players (ok, maybe not Oakland), the GOOD teams have coaches who put those players in a position to succeed.

Anyways...I would not be opposed to them trading Ben while he still has some worth. You know Bruce would probably offer up a Herschel Walker-type deal to have his best buddy back. Maybe even Jeff Fisher would throw his hat in the ring. It would have to be a great deal, of course. Bad thing is that there is not any QBs coming out this year that really look that great to me as of yet. So do you take a chance on one of them, or go after somebody already in the league to scab it together for a year or so?

Neither scenario makes me feel any less nauseated. So many problems, so little solutions. I also think we have won our last Superbowl with Ben at the helm. Too many issues to correct in too short of time, IMO.

86WARD
10-14-2014, 08:09 PM
I'm saying it's unfair to judge a qb who has never played a meaningful down with a coach other than Rex Ryan as a bust. The guy has talent. I saw t this summer. I think this is a guy who could come alive when given a second chance.

You think it's funny, fine. Don't really give a shit what you think.

You mark my words though. Sanchez will get offers this offseason, and don't be shocked if he turns out to be a decent starter with a better offensive coaching staff and supporting cast. Last I got to say on it.

- - - Updated - - -

Kaepernick will be tagged, not going anywhere. And Locker hasn't done a damn thing in this league. Least of all stay healtghy. what a fucking laugh that is. :sofunny:

Almost as funny as suggesting Mark Sanchez as a replacement for Ben Roethlisberger. Almost...but not quite. Lol.

Gradkowski would be a better choice than Sanchez.

Dwinsgames
10-14-2014, 08:22 PM
I smell what you're cooking, Dwins.

I love Ben and think he is definitely the best QB to ever wear the black n gold. It would be great if he could stay here and everything else can magically get fixed before he is useless. And don't get me wrong - I do think that is a possibility. (well, maybe not the magic part). I think most of our problems is coaching - not just Tomlin, but also Haley and Lebeau. Game plans seem to be crap (if there ARE even any game plans prepared...) and the in-game adjustments are MIA. Every team is full of professional grade football players (ok, maybe not Oakland), the GOOD teams have coaches who put those players in a position to succeed.

Anyways...I would not be opposed to them trading Ben while he still has some worth. You know Bruce would probably offer up a Herschel Walker-type deal to have his best buddy back. Maybe even Jeff Fisher would throw his hat in the ring. It would have to be a great deal, of course. Bad thing is that there is not any QBs coming out this year that really look that great to me as of yet. So do you take a chance on one of them, or go after somebody already in the league to scab it together for a year or so?

Neither scenario makes me feel any less nauseated. So many problems, so little solutions. I also think we have won our last Superbowl with Ben at the helm. Too many issues to correct in too short of time, IMO.

to the bold ...who me ?

not really just showing what a damned if we do and REALLY damned if we don't situation we are now in ....

personally if I get a good offer I take it and then plan my way back to contention ....

if I dont get a GOOD offer I swing for the fences like we never have before in FA and work the hell out of the draft ....

but in both scenarios I am doing it with a new GM , scouting department , as well as coaching staff

Mojouw
10-14-2014, 10:28 PM
I think that the Steelers would never get a "good enough" offer. Teams value draft picks far too much these days. No GM or team wants to be the one that gets hung with the next "Herschel Walker trade" label.

Plus all the truly stupid owners have QBs (Snyder, Jones, well Al Davis is dead, and Mike Brown seems set on Dalton) add in the fact that the teams that have terrible QB situations (Buffalo, Jets, Titans, Rams) are all currently being run by GM's that really like to build through the draft and hoard picks. And I just don't see them getting enough picks to make the potential gains outweigh knowingly sending your team out to the QB wilderness.

What they need to do is fire whoever they want to fire, sit the remaining folks down and agree on a timeline to fix it (working on the assumption that it is a multi-year process). This removes the pressure to "Win now" and may encourage the playing of younger, higher ceiling players over mediocre veterans. Then take a chainsaw to the roster. They took a scalpel last off-season. See where that got everyone.

The following players need to go after the season. Nothing personal, just business:
1. Polmalu
2. Taylor
3. Kiesel
4. Worilds
5. Cam Thomas
6. Will Allen
7. Gradkowski
8. Jones
9. all veteran (5 or more years experience) back-ups

Go with youth, potential, speed, cheap contracts, and upside up and down the roster. Throw enough guys at the wall and see what sticks.

It will be like a feel good Disney movie during training camp. Fun.

Also, for the record, Sanchez is awful. I think the Steelers would be better served to suit up the winner of series of contests on this message board and start them before they even put a contract in the same zip code as Sanchez. You need to at least be accurate to play QB in the NATIONAL FOOTBALL LEAGUE (it was funnier if you read it in your best ESPN talking head voice) and Sanchez is far from accurate.