Skip the tape, Ben, and just speak up

[stillers4me]

When will Ben Roethlisberger blow his top?
And really, why hasn’t he done so already?

I’m left with a litany of questions, criticisms and outright kicks to the teeth for how miserably the Steelers performed Sunday in this 31-10 (http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2014101203/2014/REG6/steelers@browns#menu=highlights|contentId:0ap30000 00409499&tab=analyze) throttling by the Browns at FirstEnergy Stadium, from Mike Tomlin’s preparation to Todd Haley’s frequently comical offensive playcalling to Dick LeBeau’s defense … well, having its own top blown off twice … to pretty much all 53 players.


This was flat-out sickening in nearly every facet.

It was Tampa times 10, London times 11, getting Tebowed by 12. Because at least that last one happened in the playoffs, which this team might not revisit for another decade at this pace.............

read more @ http://dkonpittsburghsports.com/2014/10/12/column-will-take-ben-pipe/

[X-Terminator]

In light of everything that I've said and everyone else has said, the bottom line is this. Until the Steelers understand that they win when Roethlisberger is calling the shots on offense, we're going to continue to see performances like today. I'll say it again - Todd Haley needs to either be fired or reduced to a clipboard holder at this point, and Ben given complete control over the offense ala Peyton Manning. Not saying that he would be Peyton Manning, because there is only one Peyton Manning. But he has proven time and time again that he is at his best when he is in control. I'm really tired of their stubbornness, and I lay that firmly at the feet of Art II, because Haley's hire and his desire to rein Ben in is why the offense is sputtering along.

[Shoes]

"But what, pray tell, keeps Roethlisberger in line?"

Money and a big contract this off season.

[X-Terminator]

"But what, pray tell, keeps Roethlisberger in line?"

Money and a big contract this off season.

Still shouldn't stop him from speaking up, because there's no way Rooney won't still pay him what he wants.

[stillers4me]

"But what, pray tell, keeps Roethlisberger in line?"

Money and a big contract this off season.

No. I think they hold it over his head that they stood by him when they could have cut him a few years back when....you know.

[MrPgh]

No. I think they hold it over his head that they stood by him when they could have cut him a few years back when....you know.

Then Ben should be prepared to play hardball. If he leaves, the Steelers become the laughing stock of the NFL. The Rooneys should think long and hard about that.

[Shoes]

No. I think they hold it over his head that they stood by him when they could have cut him a few years back when....you know.

If thats the case he should move on and I would be happy for him.

[dislocatedday]

None of us know what is said in the locker room or behind closed doors. Ben does not need to "blow his top" in public, but privately going to Tomlin or Art with his concerns about the offense (if he has concerns...which I assume he does) would be the practical thing to do.

Tomlin should be the one to "demote" Haley and hand the offensive reins to Ben. Any average fan can see that it is not working with Haley's scripted offensive gameplan. Tomlin needs to be the leader and make some changes. Starting with getting the offense out of Haley's funk is a good first step. The lack of scoring and inability to consistently perform on offense is troubling, because there is talent there.

[MrPgh]

None of us know what is said in the locker room or behind closed doors. Ben does not need to "blow his top" in public, but privately going to Tomlin or Art with his concerns about the offense (if he has concerns...which I assume he does) would be the practical thing to do.

Ben does need to blow his top, because that's the best chance to get the Steelers to change is by embarrassing them.


Tomlin should be the one to "demote" Haley and hand the offensive reins to Ben. Any average fan can see that it is not working with Haley's scripted offensive gameplan. Tomlin needs to be the leader and make some changes. Starting with getting the offense out of Haley's funk is a good first step. The lack of scoring and inability to consistently perform on offense is troubling, because there is talent there.

Tomlin is not even allowed to pick his own coordinators. What makes you think he can demote Haley?

[Dwinsgames]

not sure how stable his legs would be " blowing his top " after a 21-42 -228 yard performance against the browns would be ... remember a lot of those yards where at garbage time too ( along with the only TD of the day ) ....

this browns Def owned him and the rest of the team and that def is anything but stellar giving up close to 30 a game until today

[Count Steeler]

not sure how stable his legs would be " blowing his top " after a 21-42 -228 yard performance against the browns would be ... remember a lot of those yards where at garbage time too ( along with the only TD of the day ) ....

this browns Def owned him and the rest of the team and that def is anything but stellar giving up close to 30 a game until today

Jacksonville, rinse repeat. Wait until we play a good defense.

[Steeltreal]

Ben is no Rookie, but you never see him looking over plays and studying defenses when the cameras pan to him on the sidelines. Instead hes just watching the defense get shredded pouting with a towel wrapped around his neck or head.

[dislocatedday]

Ben does need to blow his top, because that's the best chance to get the Steelers to change is by embarrassing them.



Tomlin is not even allowed to pick his own coordinators. What makes you think he can demote Haley?

Has it ever been definitively proven that Tomlin is not allowed to pick his own coordinators? So many speculate that Art forced the hiring of Todd Haley, but I don't know why this is the case. I honestly have not seen evidence of Art meddling in the coaching affairs at all since he took over for Dan. In an interview a couple years ago Art said that the team needs to run the ball better (which they did need to do better), and many have since declared that Art is reining in Ben, wanting to return to Smashmouth football, and refusing to adapt to the modern NFL. A simple comment Art made, that many fans also made at the time, has been turned into him being a meddling owner. I don't get that one bit.

[stillers4me]

Ben is no Rookie, but you never see him looking over plays and studying defenses when the cameras pan to him on the sidelines. Instead hes just watching the defense get shredded pouting with a towel wrapped around his neck or head.

Umm... no that's not what I see. Maybe at the very end of the game when there's nothing more for him to do but hope the defense holds up. I see him looking a pictures and plays all the time. Really, this nonsense of him never studying is...nonsense.

[Godfather]

Then Ben should be prepared to play hardball. If he leaves, the Steelers become the laughing stock of the NFL. The Rooneys should think long and hard about that.

What happens without Ben? We put up one offensive TD against Jacksonville and one against Cleveland?

[Dwinsgames]

What happens without Ben? We put up one offensive TD against Jacksonville and one against Cleveland?

probably since our cast off put 31 and 27 up on us this year ...

1 man does not make or break a TEAM ...we lack TEAM

I vote for getting a competitive one

[X-Terminator]

1 man does not make or break a TEAM

It does when he's the QB. It's not like there isn't plenty of evidence in this organization's past or around the league currently to show how valuable a competent QB is or anything.

[GBMelBlount]

Without ben this team would be 4-12.

They really suck top to bottom.

[Dwinsgames]

It does when he's the QB. It's not like there isn't plenty of evidence in this organization's past or around the league currently to show how valuable a competent QB is or anything.

you can win with an adequate one and win lots ...

surely romo is not " elite" yet he is 5-1

surely foles is not elite and they are about to go 5-1 ( least everyone here said he wasnt last year )

plenty more examples ...

is Hoyer elite ? he embarrassed us today

is Glennon elite he embarrassed us 2 weeks ago

how about Moonball Joe he embarrassed us week 1

seems like we can be embarrassed by mediocre talent yet we supposedly have superior talent and get embarrassed ... makes me wonder if that 1 guy is uber important after all as long as the replacement is competent


forgive me if I go for a superior TEAM effort week in week out and not take the occasional heroics and the " team " being carried by just a few guys ...

I like my odds better when I have a multitude of guys who can make a play for me to make the difference over having a small handful that do it once in awhile ...

I am not saying " trade Ben " but I sure as hell am not anointing him as a savior either cause that is not working to well 500 isnt good enough and thats a proven fact as well 19-19 out of last 38 games played and NONE in the playoffs .... Ben can not do it with his current stable of weapons often enough ...

ben is a very good qb but he is not a guy who raises the level of his team mates like Manning or Favre could ... Sidney Rice per example of such with Favre ..... over 1300 yards ( nearly double his second best season ) and 8 TDs in 1 year with Favre 3500 for 7 year career and now out of football

we need more than " Ben " to get it done and he does us NO good as is ....

[MrPgh]

What happens without Ben? We put up one offensive TD against Jacksonville and one against Cleveland?

So if the Steelers get rid of him that fixes all their problems?


Has it ever been definitively proven that Tomlin is not allowed to pick his own coordinators? So many speculate that Art forced the hiring of Todd Haley, but I don't know why this is the case. I honestly have not seen evidence of Art meddling in the coaching affairs at all since he took over for Dan. In an interview a couple years ago Art said that the team needs to run the ball better (which they did need to do better), and many have since declared that Art is reining in Ben, wanting to return to Smashmouth football, and refusing to adapt to the modern NFL. A simple comment Art made, that many fans also made at the time, has been turned into him being a meddling owner. I don't get that one bit.

Because since Art II has made those comments, the offense has been reined in. It's easy to connect the dots, don't be so naive.

Generally when owners try to get involved in football ops, bad things happen. Art II is a lawyer, not a football mind.

- - - Updated - - -


you can win with an adequate one and win lots ...

surely romo is not " elite" yet he is 5-1

surely foles is not elite and they are about to go 5-1 ( least everyone here said he wasnt last year )

plenty more examples ...

is Hoyer elite ? he embarrassed us today

is Glennon elite he embarrassed us 2 weeks ago

how about Moonball Joe he embarrassed us week 1

seems like we can be embarrassed by mediocre talent yet we supposedly have superior talent and get embarrassed ... makes me wonder if that 1 guy is uber important after all as long as the replacement is competent


forgive me if I go for a superior TEAM effort week in week out and not take the occasional heroics and the " team " being carried by just a few guys ...

I like my odds better when I have a multitude of guys who can make a play for me to make the difference over having a small handful that do it once in awhile ...

I am not saying " trade Ben " but I sure as hell am not anointing him as a savior either cause that is not working to well 500 isnt good enough and thats a proven fact as well 19-19 out of last 38 games played and NONE in the playoffs .... Ben can not do it with his current stable of weapons often enough ...

ben is a very good qb but he is not a guy who raises the level of his team mates like Manning or Favre could ... Sidney Rice per example of such with Favre ..... over 1300 yards ( nearly double his second best season ) and 8 TDs in 1 year with Favre 3500 for 7 year career and now out of football

we need more than " Ben " to get it done and he does us NO good as is ....

Typical yinzer gibberish. "It's all Ben's fault! Get rid of him and we'll be better!"

Yo, the Steelers ran ran ran and ran some more in the first half, what did it get them? You're glorious yinzer smashmouth got the Steelers a huge ass beating.

Maybe Ben should leave. Fans like you would be put in their place after seeing how bad the Steelers would be.

[Dwinsgames]

S
Because since Art II has made those comments, the offense has been reined in. It's easy to connect the dots, don't be so naive.

Generally when owners try to get involved in football ops, bad things happen. Art II is a lawyer, not a football mind.




not sure why I bothered to click view post on this bozo , you are so full of mindless blabber that is rarely substantiated by fact ...

221 passing attempts

168 rushing attempts ( including WR end arounds , punter running , Ben and gradkowski scrambling 19 of those 168 attempts )
so in reality 149 actually rushing plays that are not " gadget" or forced runs when pass was the primary focus and the QB pulled it down and ran instead of throwing it ....

so unless you consider passing 60% of the time being " reeled in " your clueless

now I quickly remember why I placed him on ignore ( no chance he is coming off now because nothing has changed in his lack of reality posting style )


::edit for link :: so nobody has to take my numbers as fact here is a verification link http://www.steelers.com/team/statistics.html

[dislocatedday]

So if the Steelers get rid of him that fixes all their problems?



Because since Art II has made those comments, the offense has been reined in. It's easy to connect the dots, don't be so naive.

Generally when owners try to get involved in football ops, bad things happen. Art II is a lawyer, not a football mind.

.

I am certainly not naive in the least. I think you are the one connecting dots that do not exist.

[fansince'76]

ben is a very good qb but he is not a guy who raises the level of his team mates like Manning or Favre could ...

And how many times have Manning and Favre gone one-and-done in the postseason? Too many to count. Especially Favre - he threw so many season-ending INTs and pick-sixes for his team(s) while trying to be a hero it was ridiculous. Raising the level of one's teammates only goes so far. And outside of Brown, the Steelers receiving corps is very much wanting at the moment. They need to start holding on to the damn thing when it hits them right in the hands. Ben can't catch it for them too.


Sidney Rice per example of such with Favre ..... over 1300 yards ( nearly double his second best season ) and 8 TDs in 1 year with Favre 3500 for 7 year career and now out of football

The same could be said of Santonio Holmes. Besides become a clubhouse cancer, he's done NOTHING since leaving the Steelers.

I agree that Ben has been in a funk the last few games, but unloading him would be a case of throwing the baby out with the bath water, IMO. And Haley's play calling certainly doesn't get a pass either. That's sucked as well.

[Craic]

Funny, I just finished watching the game. Do any of you realize JUST HOW MANY TIMES the ball literally hit our receivers in the hands or chest and bounced off? This loss, at least on offense, had very little to do with Ben, even less to do with the OC, and everything to do with our wide receivers who couldn't catch syphilis from a Thai hooker if they tried today.

[Dwinsgames]

And how many times have Manning and Favre gone one-and-done in the postseason? Too many to count. Especially Favre - he threw so many season-ending INTs and pick-sixes for his team(s) while trying to be a hero it was ridiculous. Raising the level of one's teammates only goes so far. And outside of Brown, the Steelers receiving corps is very much wanting at the moment. They need to start holding on to the damn thing when it hits them right in the hands. Ben can't catch it for them too.



The same could be said of Santonio Holmes. Besides become a clubhouse cancer, he's done NOTHING since leaving the Steelers.

I agree that Ben has been in a funk the last few games, but unloading him would be a case of throwing the baby out with the bath water, IMO. And Haley's play calling certainly doesn't get a pass either. That's sucked as well.



for every santonio holmes you show I can show a Emanuel Sanders .... statistically has his 3rd best year as a pro already this year with just 5 games played http://www.nfl.com/player/emmanuelsanders/497322/careerstats

but in fairness since leaving the burgh who exactly threw to holmes that was " average or better " but holmes is a bad example 16 of his career 36 tds came from his time in NY with " the Sanchise " throwing to him ( 42 total games played in NY ) 60 in Pittsburgh ... so 4 more TDs with Ben in 18 more games ( not exactly a step down in TD production )

[X-Terminator]

you can win with an adequate one and win lots ...

surely romo is not " elite" yet he is 5-1

surely foles is not elite and they are about to go 5-1 ( least everyone here said he wasnt last year )

plenty more examples ...

is Hoyer elite ? he embarrassed us today

is Glennon elite he embarrassed us 2 weeks ago

how about Moonball Joe he embarrassed us week 1

seems like we can be embarrassed by mediocre talent yet we supposedly have superior talent and get embarrassed ... makes me wonder if that 1 guy is uber important after all as long as the replacement is competent


forgive me if I go for a superior TEAM effort week in week out and not take the occasional heroics and the " team " being carried by just a few guys ...

I like my odds better when I have a multitude of guys who can make a play for me to make the difference over having a small handful that do it once in awhile ...

I am not saying " trade Ben " but I sure as hell am not anointing him as a savior either cause that is not working to well 500 isnt good enough and thats a proven fact as well 19-19 out of last 38 games played and NONE in the playoffs .... Ben can not do it with his current stable of weapons often enough ...

ben is a very good qb but he is not a guy who raises the level of his team mates like Manning or Favre could ... Sidney Rice per example of such with Favre ..... over 1300 yards ( nearly double his second best season ) and 8 TDs in 1 year with Favre 3500 for 7 year career and now out of football

we need more than " Ben " to get it done and he does us NO good as is ....

My point was that it's been proven time and again that if you want to be an elite team, it helps to have something other than a warm body at QB. Do we really need to go back to the Cowher years and point out how great some of those teams were, yet couldn't get over the top...why? Trash at QB, that's why. It's not a coincidence that once they finally addressed the QB position, they finally won the SB. You can have all of those playmakers that you desire, but if the QB can't make plays or loses you games, then what good is having all of those playmakers? Romo is a prime example of that, in fact. How many playoff games has he choked away while playing for some pretty damn good Cowboys teams? Meanwhile, Ben has gotten it done twice and nearly a 3rd time in his 10-year career, and yet, he is so underappreciated by Steelers fans who think they'd be better off without him. It's why I've said in the past that the fans don't deserve him. If a team wants to win a championship with stiffs at QB, they'd better be dominant on defense and in the running game. Being dominant in one area will not be enough.

[fansince'76]

for every santonio holmes you show I can show a Emanuel Sanders .... statistically has his 3rd best year as a pro already this year with just 5 games played http://www.nfl.com/player/emmanuelsanders/497322/careerstats

but in fairness since leaving the burgh who exactly threw to holmes that was " average or better " but holmes is a bad example 16 of his career 36 tds came from his time in NY with " the Sanchise " throwing to him ( 42 total games played in NY ) 60 in Pittsburgh ... so 4 more TDs with Ben in 18 more games ( not exactly a step down in TD production )

Glad Manny finally learned how to catch because he couldn't seem to catch a cold while he was with the Steelers. How's Cotchery doing since he went to the Panthers? Zero TDs so far, you say?

[Dwinsgames]

Glad Manny finally learned how to catch because he couldn't seem to catch a cold while he was with the Steelers. How's Cotchery doing since he went to the Panthers? Zero TDs so far, you say?


honestly ( not certain ) but do not believe he has played much do to injury ..will have a look though ya have me wondering

[fansince'76]

My point was that it's been proven time and again that if you want to be an elite team, it helps to have something other than a warm body at QB. Do we really need to go back to the Cowher years and point out how great some of those teams were, yet couldn't get over the top...why? Trash at QB, that's why. It's not a coincidence that once they finally addressed the QB position, they finally won the SB. You can have all of those playmakers that you desire, but if the QB can't make plays or loses you games, then what good is having all of those playmakers? Romo is a prime example of that, in fact. How many playoff games has he choked away while playing for some pretty damn good Cowboys teams? Meanwhile, Ben has gotten it done twice and nearly a 3rd time in his 10-year career, and yet, he is so underappreciated by Steelers fans who think they'd be better off without him. It's why I've said in the past that the fans don't deserve him. If a team wants to win a championship with stiffs at QB, they'd better be dominant on defense and in the running game. Being dominant in one area will not be enough.

A team hasn't won a SB with a bona fide "stiff" at QB since the Bucs back in '03. I doubt it will happen again anytime too soon with all the rules changes that favor the passing game. Since then it's been Brady (2), Ben (2), E. Manning (2), P. Manning (1), Brees (1), Rodgers (1), Flacco (1), and Wilson (1). Not a "stiff" in that bunch.

[X-Terminator]

A team hasn't won a SB with a bona fide "stiff" at QB since the Bucs back in '03. I doubt it will happen again anytime too soon with all the rules changes that favor the passing game. Since then it's been Brady (2), Ben (2), E. Manning (2), P. Manning (1), Brees (1), Rodgers (1), Flacco (1), and Wilson (1). Not a "stiff" in that bunch.

And before that it was Trent Dilfer in 2000 with the Ravens. Before him it was Warner, Elway twice, Favre, Young twice and Aikman 3 times, including SB XXX that the Steelers lost as a direct result of poor QB play. The only anomaly in that time was Rypien winning it with the Redskins in 1991.

[Dwinsgames]

My point was that it's been proven time and again that if you want to be an elite team, it helps to have something other than a warm body at QB. Do we really need to go back to the Cowher years and point out how great some of those teams were, yet couldn't get over the top...why? Trash at QB, that's why. It's not a coincidence that once they finally addressed the QB position, they finally won the SB. You can have all of those playmakers that you desire, but if the QB can't make plays or loses you games, then what good is having all of those playmakers? Romo is a prime example of that, in fact. How many playoff games has he choked away while playing for some pretty damn good Cowboys teams? Meanwhile, Ben has gotten it done twice and nearly a 3rd time in his 10-year career, and yet, he is so underappreciated by Steelers fans who think they'd be better off without him. It's why I've said in the past that the fans don't deserve him. If a team wants to win a championship with stiffs at QB, they'd better be dominant on defense and in the running game. Being dominant in one area will not be enough.

dont think " better off without him "

think its a waist to have him if we can not manage more playmakers team wide ... 1 guy can not be expected to carry a team for 16 games +

Ben is not capable of that and anyone who thinks he can is fooling themself ....

so if we are not going to make wholesale roster and coaching changes , cut the fat on guys past their prime carrying large contracts with little production then why not trade him while you can get something worthwhile in return and save money to address other areas for the future ....

I know I can hear it already ...you do not trade a franchise QB ...

but if that 1 man can not take you to the promised land without a supporting cast and you can not get that cast while you have him exactly what good did it do you having him ?

not looking to argue , honestly am not ... just feel if they are not able to fix all the leaks in the damn before it breaks then sell the Yacht before its gone for nothing .....

I would rather have more chances at replacing him and the other pieces needed for the same time frame than to have to replace the pieces and then him before he has a chance to utilize them ....

this team is garbage and needs a lot of work and I see bens career ending sooner rather than later ... he is getting beaten up on a weekly basis behind this porous line he has limited weapons and we have a def full of holes still ...

we had this chat last year and many said we where 1 draft away from righting the ship ( I said 3 ) we had our 1 draft and nothing has changed we are still losing the same sort of games ...

yes we are 3-3 but the soft part of the schedule is past it only gets tougher from here on out so doubt we improve beyond where we are now record wise ( .500 ball / probably worse )

for me anything less than a Lombardi is failure , anything less than playoffs is unforgivable ... so 3 years in a row no playoffs ... what good did Ben do the team if we fail to achieve the goal with or without him ? more competitive ? really ?? I could care less if we win 3 games or 8 games if it means no playoffs it means no playoffs ... I know not everyone looks at it that way but I do ... let me pick WAY sooner if not picking last .. but I have comfort in my ability in selecting players ( if only I could just once !!! ) haha

- - - Updated - - -


A team hasn't won a SB with a bona fide "stiff" at QB since the Bucs back in '03. I doubt it will happen again anytime too soon with all the rules changes that favor the passing game. Since then it's been Brady (2), Ben (2), E. Manning (2), P. Manning (1), Brees (1), Rodgers (1), Flacco (1), and Wilson (1). Not a "stiff" in that bunch.


dont recall anyone saying lets get a stiff to replace him

[X-Terminator]

Alright Dwins, I can see your point of view. I don't agree with all of it, but hey, not everyone thinks the same way. IMO a lot of fans have never warmed up to Ben since he's been here (and he'd given them plenty of reasons to feel that way with his off the field problems) and many more still have that "smashmouth, 3-yards-and-a-cloud-of-dust" mentality that was outdated half a decade ago. So that tends to shape my own opinions. Plus, I don't have the same championship-or-bust sentiment with the Steelers. I only have that mindset with the Penguins. :wink02:

And don't just take my word for it. Just check out our Facebook page for a prime example of the kind of fan I'm talking about.

[Dwinsgames]

Alright Dwins, I can see your point of view. I don't agree with all of it, but hey, not everyone thinks the same way. IMO a lot of fans have never warmed up to Ben since he's been here (and he'd given them plenty of reasons to feel that way with his off the field problems) and many more still have that "smashmouth, 3-yards-and-a-cloud-of-dust" mentality that was outdated half a decade ago. So that tends to shape my own opinions. Plus, I don't have the same championship-or-bust sentiment with the Steelers. I only have that mindset with the Penguins. :wink02:

thats fine , we all wont agree at every point ...

just wanted to try and make my stance clear . its not that I do not appreciate what he does or has done ... its my view of the future and what its going to take to turn this thing around long term :)


have a good night , I am gonna try and get some rest if I can ever get comfortable with this blasted leg

[Count Steeler]

Ben is no Rookie, but you never see him looking over plays and studying defenses when the cameras pan to him on the sidelines. Instead hes just watching the defense get shredded pouting with a towel wrapped around his neck or head.

That is not true. He was looking at the Surface yesterday while on the sidelines, going over the play with Haley. Yesterday was not the only time I have seen that either.

[Kittyfish]

Just wanted to say thanks for a really interesting and informative thread. I always like a good debate. :-)

[steel striker]

This offense has many issues and, outside of AB & Heath Miller what do we have? Sure Ben was not super sharp yesterday but, the play calling was horrible that one drive 10 runs in a row had me smh. Botched field goal several other errors dropped passes and, then we have the defense which still can't stop a good o-line that has good running backs. Now we have MNF against the Houston with JJ Watt Ben will be running for his life and, how is the defense going to stop Foster on the ground? It was hard to watch that game yesterday.