What do the Steelers need to do to again become a good team?

[polamalubeast]

Do the steelers must fired their coaching staff, including Tomlin and fired Colbert to become again a good team?

Without major change, the Steelers will not be better next year because the schedule will be brutal

[X-Terminator]

Major change is no guarantee that the team will be any better next year or any time soon. However, it does need to happen, because the status quo certainly isn't good enough. They should fire the entire staff except Munchak, Mann and Saxon. Colbert should be canned. Whoever is brought in as GM needs to be allowed to hire his own HC, and then the HC allowed to hire his own staff outside of the aforementioned 3. Which means Art II should hire the GM, and then relegate himself to signing the checks, keeping his nose out of the football ops.

[polamalubeast]

Major change is no guarantee that the team will be any better next year or any time soon. However, it does need to happen, because the status quo certainly isn't good enough. They should fire the entire staff except Munchak, Mann and Saxon. Colbert should be canned. Whoever is brought in as GM needs to be allowed to hire his own HC, and then the HC allowed to hire his own staff outside of the aforementioned 3. Which means Art II should hire the GM, and then relegate himself to signing the checks, keeping his nose out of the football ops.


Agree with that

The Steelers will need to be in rebuilding for 2-3 years if the Steelers want to become a good team and a SB contender again

[st33lersguy]

Revamp the entire coaching staff

[Dwinsgames]

first thing you have to do is get and identity that fit your personnel ...we have to protect our OLD and very young players on DEF so long sustained drives when possible is always a step in the right direction ...

I know that will not be popular here but it is a true statement

[Shoes]

Major change is no guarantee that the team will be any better next year or any time soon. However, it does need to happen, because the status quo certainly isn't good enough. They should fire the entire staff except Munchak, Mann and Saxon. Colbert should be canned. Whoever is brought in as GM needs to be allowed to hire his own HC, and then the HC allowed to hire his own staff outside of the aforementioned 3. Which means Art II should hire the GM, and then relegate himself to signing the checks, keeping his nose out of the football ops.

I agree with this, I think one can see clear improvement under Munch, Mann and Saxon.

[zulater]

Unless we don't win another game and the locker room becomes toxic Tomlin wont be fired. He's never had a losing season. Cowher was allowed two consecutive losing seasons,and 3 in all. So if they fire Tomlin someone would play the race card, and Rooney Sr. wont allow that to happen. Tomlin will have to post no less than two consecutive losing seasons for them to even consider firing him. LeBeau will be shown the door. Maybe Colbert too? Haley was a Rooney hire, so he has better than a 50/50 chance to hang on. .

[Steelerette]

I don't like to react immediately after a terrible loss. After some thought and reflection, there's usually something to take away from it - a silver lining, a nice story about development --

Today, I got nothin'.

[MrPgh]

Unless we don't win another game and the locker room becomes toxic Tomlin wont be fired. He's never had a losing season. Cowher was allowed two consecutive losing seasons,and 3 in all. So if they fire Tomlin someone would play the race card, and Rooney Sr. wont allow that to happen. Tomlin will have to post no less than two consecutive losing seasons for them to even consider firing him. LeBeau will be shown the door. Maybe Colbert too? Haley was a Rooney hire, so he has better than a 50/50 chance to hang on. .

So you're basically saying the Rooneys think they are bigger than the team.

[JayC]

a good draft would be a nice place to start. colbert and tomlin's drafting is the at the root of our issues. they are just bad talent evaluators it seems.

[Shoes]

Unless we don't win another game and the locker room becomes toxic Tomlin wont be fired. He's never had a losing season. Cowher was allowed two consecutive losing seasons,and 3 in all. So if they fire Tomlin someone would play the race card, and Rooney Sr. wont allow that to happen. Tomlin will have to post no less than two consecutive losing seasons for them to even consider firing him. LeBeau will be shown the door. Maybe Colbert too? Haley was a Rooney hire, so he has better than a 50/50 chance to hang on. .

I think the Rooney's were too hasty in picking Tomlin and were swayed by his bullshit. I can't believe Tomlin was the best HC available. It seems to me that the Rooney's were more interested in being examples of their own rule. Now they have to live with it. LeBeau will probably be the only one to go, maybe Colbert.

[polamalubeast]

Unless we don't win another game and the locker room becomes toxic Tomlin wont be fired. He's never had a losing season. Cowher was allowed two consecutive losing seasons,and 3 in all. So if they fire Tomlin someone would play the race card, and Rooney Sr. wont allow that to happen. Tomlin will have to post no less than two consecutive losing seasons for them to even consider firing him. LeBeau will be shown the door. Maybe Colbert too? Haley was a Rooney hire, so he has better than a 50/50 chance to hang on. .

Yes, but Cowher has never had three non-winning season in a row

[jb500ex]

New coaches and linebacking crew who's not soft and weak

[MrPgh]

Yes, but Cowher has never had three non-winning season in a row

And when Cowher did miss the playoffs three seasons in a row, he wasn't wasting the prime years of a franchise QB.

[X-Terminator]

Yes, but Cowher has never had three non-winning season in a row

Tomlin hasn't either, because this season ain't over yet. He's well on his way, though.

[Count Steeler]

Major change is no guarantee that the team will be any better next year or any time soon. However, it does need to happen, because the status quo certainly isn't good enough. They should fire the entire staff except Munchak, Mann and Saxon. Colbert should be canned. Whoever is brought in as GM needs to be allowed to hire his own HC, and then the HC allowed to hire his own staff outside of the aforementioned 3. Which means Art II should hire the GM, and then relegate himself to signing the checks, keeping his nose out of the football ops.

X-T, I think you have to let the new HC decide if he wants to keep those 3 coaches. I agree they are doing a good job, but the HC has to have free reign over his coaches, and work with what is supplied on field. Naturally, he should eliminate players that don't fit or buy into his plan. This will take 2-3 years or even longer.

[Godfather]

I think the Rooney's were too hasty in picking Tomlin and were swayed by his bullshit. I can't believe Tomlin was the best HC available. It seems to me that the Rooney's were more interested in being examples of their own rule. Now they have to live with it. LeBeau will probably be the only one to go, maybe Colbert.

The other interviews were Wiz (fired by Arizona), Grimm (passed over literally dozens of times since then), and Ron Rivera.

[X-Terminator]

X-T, I think you have to let the new HC decide if he wants to keep those 3 coaches. I agree they are doing a good job, but the HC has to have free reign over his coaches, and work with what is supplied on field. Naturally, he should eliminate players that don't fit or buy into his plan. This will take 2-3 years or even longer.

I would think any new HC would have the good sense to keep those 3 on.

[Count Steeler]

I would think any new HC would have the good sense to keep those 3 on.

Probably so, but that should be his call.

[fansince'76]

And when Cowher did miss the playoffs three seasons in a row, he wasn't wasting the prime years of a franchise QB.

No, just the Bus' prime while insisting to start a WR at QB...for FIVE seasons...

[fansince'76]

I think the Rooney's were too hasty in picking Tomlin and were swayed by his bullshit. I can't believe Tomlin was the best HC available. It seems to me that the Rooney's were more interested in being examples of their own rule. Now they have to live with it. LeBeau will probably be the only one to go, maybe Colbert.

Hasty? They didn't offer him the job until March of 2007. I remember a LOT of people getting impatient over the length of time it took them to name a successor to Cowher. As I recall, they were very deliberate in their selection of Tomlin.

[Dwinsgames]

What do the Steelers need to do to again become a good team?

divine intervention

[Steeldude]

They need to do a much better job of acquiring good talent. So if Tomlin and Colbert are the reasons for sub-par talent then perhaps that may need to be rectified first before rebuilding.

[Steelerette]

It would be funny if we wind up with Phil Savage at GM and Rob Chudzinski for Head Coach.

I would be down with it, but it would be funny.

[zulater]

And when Cowher did miss the playoffs three seasons in a row, he wasn't wasting the prime years of a franchise QB.

98-99-00, three straight non playoff years.

But I'm with you when you point out Cowher wasn't wasting the prime years of a franchise qb.

Yeah he blew it with Kordell. But Tomlin is currently blowing it with a franchise qb and a franchise back, and a top 5 receiver!

[Drazo85]

A change of coaching scenery would do it. I think we are in the similar situation as the Eagles was few years ago with Andy Reid. They were really good in the begining, blew their chances for the superbowl title (only and biggest difference), and keep Reid few years too long, for his earlier success. They tried with changing coordinators, changing QBs, formations and nothing was succesfull. They finally fired him, bring replacement (they were lucky Kelly was available at the right time) and are of to a good start. If Kelly wins it all with Foles, would you think their fans would criticize him for doing it with QB that Reid picked up? I dont think so.
Tomlin lost this team. He relied on the veterans to maintain discipline in the locker room, and they did it in the beginning. Ward, Farrior, Smith, Hampton, Harison, Foote, these guys held other accountable, and really made life easier for Tomlin. He could be friend with all of them, and the veterans would handle the discipline issues. Now, the Steelers are lacking leadership, young guys are not held accountable to anything, and Tomlin cant do anything about it. He set the standard and its not good, and i firmly believe players are laughing at him behind his back. This team need disciplinarian, the one who would lay down the law, some one like Coughlin

[plenewken]

To be a strong team again (SB caliber) the Steelers will need a massive overhaul of the coaching staff (HC, OC and DC), add some badly needed talent pretty much everywhere on D but particularly LB and secondary .......... and a minimum of 2 to 3 years.

[Shoes]

The other interviews were Wiz (fired by Arizona), Grimm (passed over literally dozens of times since then), and Ron Rivera.

How about college coaches and going outside Pittsburgh?

- - - Updated - - -


Hasty? They didn't offer him the job until March of 2007. I remember a LOT of people getting impatient over the length of time it took them to name a successor to Cowher. As I recall, they were very deliberate in their selection of Tomlin.

Of course they were and now they have him.

[LLT]

a good draft would be a nice place to start. colbert and tomlin's drafting is the at the root of our issues. they are just bad talent evaluators it seems.

I don't know if its so much a matter of bad evaluation as it is a lack of understanding team needs.

I think a VERY strong argument could be made that the FO failed to identify where we lacked depth when they were making decision during the 2014 draft. Often people get caught up in the BPA mentality without taking certain things into consideration.

For instance, during the first round, there were several players available that warranted consideration where we were picking...The FO went with the player that was widely considered to be the BPA, Though there were three CB's that were considered mid first round talent.

Did we need an ILB? Yes.

Did we need one in the FIRST ROUND? No.

I think our second round pick was spot on and Tuitt will be a very good player in time, but I think we made the same fundamental drafting mistake in the third round that we made in the first. Drafting Archer did little address our true problems, especially since we drafted another WR one round later. Perhaps the third round would have been a more appropriate time to look at ILB?

The front office really cant say this is all hind sight...since most of the fanbase and the pundits have been painfully aware of our weak CB corps for the last few years. Strangely, the FO has turned a blind eye towards our defensive backfield for so many years that the talent level there has reached a critical point.

THIS...and this alone accounts for our defensive woes.

[Psycho Ward 86]

nothing gets better until Art stops being a closet Jerry Jones (or so many of us suspect)

[Moose]

Major change is no guarantee that the team will be any better next year or any time soon. However, it does need to happen, because the status quo certainly isn't good enough. They should fire the entire staff except Munchak, Mann and Saxon. Colbert should be canned. Whoever is brought in as GM needs to be allowed to hire his own HC, and then the HC allowed to hire his own staff outside of the aforementioned 3. Which means Art II should hire the GM, and then relegate himself to signing the checks, keeping his nose out of the football ops.

I agree with you 'X', but I also think the HC should have the decision to control his coaches and get rid of player's that are thorns to the team, or don't fit into the playbook. It's just a damn shame that the past few year's are wasted, I still say it shouldn't take year's and year's to rebuild a team. This team really did some big screw ups on drafting and free agency. I think we are FK'd from the Rooney's on down, the present F.O. has lost all it's knowledge of present day football, and I'm starting to wonder if Tomlin wasn't a result of the ' Rooney Rule' !

[Mojouw]

Four relatively simple things need to happen:
1. Get a LT. Put Beachum at LG. Fixes a lot of the pass protection issues.
2. Wheaton needs more experience. He plays like a wide-eyed rookie.
3. A pass rushing OLBer.
4. A true outside corner.

"Fix" those issues and we are all having very different discussions on here each week.

[Steelman]

This team has a lot of issues, most of them not unfamiliar. I've never been one to pimp the "Fire (insert coach here)!!!" bandwagons, but I'm convinced that dumping Haley in the street tomorrow would give the offense a spark. Give somebody else the clipboard and let Ben direct the offense on the field for the rest of the year. The Ravens made a similar move on their SB run, I don't see why we couldn't do the same. We've got nothing to lose at this point. Such a move might also restore some of Tomlin's lost power in that locker room. He's been, perhaps unwittingly, hogtied by Art II and become nothing more than a barking dog.

Defensively, I've wondered aloud for quite some time here that our defensive scheme needs to be overhauled. Obviously that doesn't happen overnight so I think you have to ride it out for the rest of the year and hope some of these young guys can have it click and come alive.

[silver & black]

Major change is no guarantee that the team will be any better next year or any time soon.

I can vouch for that statement.

[Butch]

It all starts at the top and works it's way down. I am not sure where this whole Art is responsible for saying that the HC cannot change the DC or OC comes from, but IF that is true it needs to stop NOW. The HC needs to have free reign to make decisions on who will be his coaching staff and he should not be hampered in any way shape or form from doing such duties. That way if there is a problem it rests solely on the HC and nobody else. (please someone show me where it is evident that Art did this, so that I too can be informed).
The HC along with his OC and DC need to be the ones who evaluate which players stay and which go PERIOD. I can't help but wonder if losing Unitas was a factor in the Rooney's keeping said players or not, but Ike should not be on this squad unless it was deemed by Tomlin and his staff that Ike is who they wanted.

As for the draft that is a combination of SOOOOO Many things. Yes the GM is ultimate person responsible, but the scouts and the coaches need to listened to and careful consideration needs to be taken before you draft a guy willy nilly. As LLT pointed out sometimes we reach for a player when others more valuable have been there ie... Dry Archer or way back when we took Sepulvada. Remember Chuck Noll had to be reasoned with a few times in the Greatest draft ever 1974, and even that was a curse when we didn't get Marino when he was available to us.

If we are rebuilding then that will start with the GM and he alone should decide if Tomlin stays or goes. IMHO I would suspect he goes if there is even the slightest hint that he has lost this team, but again let that be the GMs decision and hopefully he works with the Rooney's as a team rather than the Rooney's fighting him for control. Whom ever the GM selects as the new H.C. should then make the personnel and coaching staff decisions.

Bottom line if we are going to rebuild then many need to look at themselves and figure out what went wrong and learn from their mistakes before moving on. If we are not going to rebuild then these same people need to take a hard look at what is going on and come up with an effective plan on how to fix this going forward. They also still need to look at what "They" are doing to hinder this team from being successful and then learn to step back or step forward which ever the case may be.

If we are rebuilding brace yourselves for the lean years and let's see who the loyal fans really are. As for me...I still bleed Black and Gold!!!

[ALLD]

They have been out of sync for awhile. They don't jump out at the beginning of the season and think going 4-2 at the end to finish 8-8 is an achievement. Big departure from 2008. They never recovered from losing the last SB to GB.

[fansince'76]

Simple, stop gacking in the fucking red zone. Example: three trips to the red zone and only 3 points to show for it again yesterday before all hell broke loose. THAT is what desperately needs fixing. They need to stop pissing away goal-to-go opportunities and start scoring TDs.

To that end, I think the playcalling duties need to be given to Ben. But since Haley was an ARII hire, I doubt it happens and that we continue to watch the same shit every week.

[smokin3000gt]

Simple, stop gacking in the fucking red zone. Example: three trips to the red zone and only 3 points to show for it again yesterday before all hell broke loose. THAT is what desperately needs fixing. They need to stop pissing away goal-to-go opportunities and start scoring TDs.

To that end, I think the playcalling duties need to be given to Ben. But since Haley was an ARII hire, I doubt it happens and that we continue to watch the same shit every week.

this. our RZ offense is/has been atrocious. few things are more aggravating then Ben putting together a long drive to walk away with 3 pts and ultimately a loss.

[fansince'76]

this. our RZ offense is/has been atrocious. few things more aggravating then Ben putting together a long drive to walk away with 3 pts and ultimately a loss.

Especially when the majority of our drives start from our 15-yard-line or worse. Or marching it on a game opening time-consuming drive right down the Ravens' throats only to have someone fumble it away inside the 15 and get zero points out of it. That entire game turned on that play. And that is where the lack of veteran leadership comes in - we used to be able to shake that sort of thing off and not let it affect us the rest of the game. Not anymore. Once somebody screws up, the mistakes seem to start coming in bunches in a snowball effect afterward.

[tube517]

Especially when the majority of our drives start from our 15-yard-line or worse.

Whoever returns kicks was told to run it no matter how deep you field the ball in the end zone. This is just to get some exercise since we'll be flagged anyways.

[steel striker]

FS is right our redzone offense really sucks and, that's where they have to better if this team is going to win games.

[Dwinsgames]

why is it I keep seeing stuff like this crediting Ben for the drive
few things more aggravating then Ben putting together a long drive to walk away with 3 pts and ultimately a loss. ( not picking on anyone specific this is just an example )

then condemning Haley when it ends up in a turnover or just 3 points ........

Ben can not be the hero of the drive and Haley the Goat for the drives end result .... if its ben its ben all the way ... if its Haley its Haley all the way ...cant have it both ways



also as a side note its damned hard to have a discussion when one side is always held accountable to fact and others can throw out opinions and pass them off as fact without ever having to provide proof of it being more than opinion ...

can we please stop with the Art2 forced hire of Haley or provide proof of this ( not opinion or speculation but dire proof ) its getting as bad as the media we all bitch about stirring up controversy between Ben and Haley when they have both stated there is none ...

[Dwinsgames]

one more thing .... before revisionist history gets going ...


In Arians final season this offense was 12th in total net yds, yet tied for 21st in scoring offense. But to hear many talk Haley is destroying them in red zone ... think about that a moment


currently we rank 6th in total yards http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?archive=false&conference=null&role=TM&offensiveStatisticCategory=TOTAL_YARDS&defensiveStatisticCategory=null&season=2014&seasonType=REG&tabSeq=2&qualified=false&Submit=Go

and 19th in scoring http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?archive=false&conference=null&role=TM&offensiveStatisticCategory=SCORING&defensiveStatisticCategory=null&season=2014&seasonType=REG&tabSeq=2&qualified=false&Submit=Go

[HollywoodSteel]

why is it I keep seeing stuff like this crediting Ben for the drive ( not picking on anyone specific this is just an example )

then condemning Haley when it ends up in a turnover or just 3 points ........

Ben can not be the hero of the drive and Haley the Goat for the drives end result .... if its ben its ben all the way ... if its Haley its Haley all the way ...cant have it both ways



also as a side note its damned hard to have a discussion when one side is always held accountable to fact and others can throw out opinions and pass them off as fact without ever having to provide proof of it being more than opinion ...

can we please stop with the Art2 forced hire of Haley or provide proof of this ( not opinion or speculation but dire proof ) its getting as bad as the media we all bitch about stirring up controversy between Ben and Haley when they have both stated there is none ...

Running the ball three straight times in the redzone can't be blamed on Ben. Pitching it back on 3rd and half a yard can not be blamed on Ben. I'm not saying Haley's plays never work out or that Ben is some genius play caller, but these moments add up and are game changers. Ben screwed up a few plays as well. The blame goes all around, but I don't think Haley is due much credit for moving the chains a few time. That's below the bar of his job given the offense he has. We actually DO get to take some good drives for granted, just like I expect Ben to make most of the plays he's supposed to make. The difference between winners is losers is all the stuff that goes on way above the minimum bar so that's what we critique. I think that's fair given the potential of this offense.

[Mojouw]

Also, Ben is calling many of those questionable red zone plays. He called all those passes against Jacksonville. Who is to say he did not overcorrect this week against Cleveland and call too many runs?

Like Dwins posted, we need to have discussion on facts, not speculation. Haley has made this offense different. The question is has he made it better?

They are better at running the ball and not getting Ben killed. It is a totally different style, but it seems to be effective, except in the red zone. An area where ARians struggled as well. That raises the issue if it is personell or lack thereof rather than scheme? I have no idea.

But firing one OC over this didn't really fix it. Will firing another?

[Dwinsgames]

Four relatively simple things need to happen:
1. Get a LT. Put Beachum at LG. Fixes a lot of the pass protection issues.
2. Wheaton needs more experience. He plays like a wide-eyed rookie.
3. A pass rushing OLBer.
4. A true outside corner.

"Fix" those issues and we are all having very different discussions on here each week.


1) suggested this past off season that Beachum could be an all pro guard but a stop gap LT , nobody wanted to hear it ... maybe someone will listen now ?

2) Never was thrilled with Wheaton stated it many times proof is in the pudding he is hit/miss could be a good #3 probably never a solid 2

3) Worilds won't be back he let that ship sail by turning down a long term deal ( thank God ) so need is there

4) its been a need for quite some time , maybe a new regime will put the emphasis on it that is deserves ?

[Mojouw]

1) suggested this past off season that Beachum could be an all pro guard but a stop gap LT , nobody wanted to hear it ... maybe someone will listen now ?

2) Never was thrilled with Wheaton stated it many times proof is in the pudding he is hit/miss could be a good #3 probably never a solid 2

3) Worilds won't be back he let that ship sail by turning down a long term deal ( thank God ) so need is there

4) its been a need for quite some time , maybe a new regime will put the emphasis on it that is deserves ?

I agree with Beachum. I think Wheaton can grow into a #2 role, he is simply too inexperienced for now. No one wanted to hear that prior to this season either. I was totally wrong on Worilds. I thought he would make everyone regret not getting him done long term. Maybe the Steelers got that one a bit right?

I think we all wish there was a reliable corner on this team.

[86WARD]

Four relatively simple things need to happen:
1. Get a LT. Put Beachum at LG. Fixes a lot of the pass protection issues.
2. Wheaton needs more experience. He plays like a wide-eyed rookie.
3. A pass rushing OLBer.
4. A true outside corner.

"Fix" those issues and we are all having very different discussions on here each week.

So that's at least 8 years worth of drafts before they get those type of players under this current regime.