LeVeon Bell.

[zulater]

Only thing on this team worth two shits.

[Count Steeler]

And Ben, AB.

[Edman]

And Ben, AB.

Nope. Not even those two either.

Le'Veon Bell is the only, the ONLY player on this team worth a shit. The ONLY constant and consistent player that has shown up to play week after week this year.

[zulater]

And Ben, AB.


Not today. Ben couldn't hit the broad side of the barn most of the day. And AB couldn't get seperation on a hobbled defensive back.

[Steelerette]

But he got his 5/50. Yay?

[Count Steeler]

Not today. Ben couldn't hit the borad side of the barn most of the day. And AB couldn't get seperation on a hobbled defensive back.

I think you'll change your answer when you watch the game again. Dropped passes were huge today. Even Miller had 1.

[zulater]

I think you'll change your answer when you watch the game again. Dropped passes were huge today. Even Miller had 1.

I saw it. I also saw Ben miss some throws, and make some poor reads. I'm a huge Ben fan, but he stunk today.

- - - Updated - - -

I will say this. The Steelers did Ben no favors when they let Sanders and Cotchery go.

[86WARD]

Doesn't help that Wheaton couldn't run a route, make a cut with out tripping or falling down.

[zulater]

Bryant has to be suited up and play next week. Don't care if he's ready. One thing's certain outside of AB our current group of receivers are sorely lacking.

[st33lersguy]

Ben, Bell, and AB the only ones worth anything.

[86WARD]

Ben Bell AB Miller. That's it.

[Count Steeler]

Ben Bell AB Miller. That's it.

None of the above with Haley as OC and allowed to call the plays. Get him a different travel schedule, or give him a radio frequency to Guam. He should have zero input into the game.

[86WARD]

None of the above with Haley as OC and allowed to call the plays. Get him a different travel schedule, or give him a radio frequency to Guam. He should have zero input into the game.

Lol.

[dislocatedday]

Is Chan Gailey retired? I always liked him when he was the Steelers OC. He did wonders here with mediocre talent at QB and WR (although he did have Bettis for a couple seasons and a good offensive line). Unless there is a drastic change this season starting next week, I see no reason at all Todd Haley would be kept within the Steelers organization next season. I am already thinking about who could be the new offensive coordinator when he is let go.

I bring up Gailey because he did "More w/ Less Talent" while Todd is doing "Less w/ More Talent".

[Count Steeler]

Is Chan Gailey retired? I always liked him when he was the Steelers OC. He did wonders here with mediocre talent at QB and WR (although he did have Bettis for a couple seasons and a good offensive line). Unless there is a drastic change this season starting next week, I see no reason at all Todd Haley would be kept within the Steelers organization next season. I am already thinking about who could be the new offensive coordinator when he is let go.

I bring up Gailey because he did "More w/ Less Talen" while Todd is doing "Less w/ More Talent".

Kind of shit his pants in Buffalo.

[dislocatedday]

Kind of shit his pants in Buffalo.

Yes he did, but many good OCs and DCs fail as head coaches.

Gailey is older now and probably not the best choice should the Steelers OC position open in the near future. I just know that I do not want to see Haley back at OC barring some miraculous turnaround, and I am trying to think of good candidates to replace him next year.

[Count Steeler]

Yes he did, but many good OCs and DCs fail as head coaches.

Gailey is older now and probably not the best choice should the Steelers OC position open in the near future. I just know that I do not want to see Haley back at OC barring some miraculous turnaround, and I am trying to think of good candidates to replace him next year.

I can certainly appreciate that. I'd rather go for a younger perspective. Less on the traditional and more innovative. Goes for the DC as well.

[tube517]

I can certainly appreciate that. I'd rather go for a younger perspective. Less on the traditional and more innovative. Goes for the DC as well.

That's what I want to see.

[slippy]

using a little play action after successful running may help those receivers get some separation. it's a strategy that's kinda worked for 59 years ... just sayin'

[Dwinsgames]

Is Chan Gailey retired? I always liked him when he was the Steelers OC. He did wonders here with mediocre talent at QB and WR (although he did have Bettis for a couple seasons and a good offensive line). Unless there is a drastic change this season starting next week, I see no reason at all Todd Haley would be kept within the Steelers organization next season. I am already thinking about who could be the new offensive coordinator when he is let go.

I bring up Gailey because he did "More w/ Less Talent" while Todd is doing "Less w/ More Talent".


what did you think of B.A. ?

reason I ask is BA last season we where 12th in total O. yards ...

currently with Haley we are 6th ...

B.A. last season 21st in redzone

Haley 19th ....

so as bad as it seems we have improved under Haley yet he gets as much or more criticism than B.A. got

just saying

[Mojouw]

I hear Rich Kotite is available. Kevin Gilbride needs a job.

If they fire guys -- no more recycling of the same usual supects. Get someone who will innovate.

[dislocatedday]

what did you think of B.A. ?

reason I ask is BA last season we where 12th in total O. yards ...

currently with Haley we are 6th ...

B.A. last season 21st in redzone

Haley 19th ....

so as bad as it seems we have improved under Haley yet he gets as much or more criticism than B.A. got

just saying

I wanted the team to move on from Bruce Arians as well during his last couple seasons. I'm not going to pretend I did not. The Steelers had a bad O-line which did not help matters at all, but it seemed like the game plan was focused too much on letting Ben run around and then go deep. There was not a lot of quick, sharp routes, and it seemed liked Heath was used rarely during some of those seasons at the end of Arians time.

With Haley though, the only thing I think is working consistently now is the run game...........but then in obvious run situations the team chooses not to run which puzzles me greatly. Also, I think the current offensive stats get inflated because the passing game only seems to consistently produce when the team goes no huddle and Ben runs the show. Outside of that the passing game seems to sputter along for the most part. This is just what I perceive as a fan watching the games. I'm sure there is more to it that I don't see, and I don't want to blame all the woes on Haley........but I really think this team would be better off without Haley calling in his chosen plays.

[Dwinsgames]

I wanted the team to move on from Bruce Arians as well during his last couple seasons. I'm not going to pretend I did not. The Steelers had a bad O-line which did not help matters at all, but it seemed like the game plan was focused too much on letting Ben run around and then go deep. There was not a lot of quick, sharp routes, and it seemed liked Heath was used rarely during some of those seasons at the end of Arians time.

With Haley though, the only thing I think is working consistently now is the run game...........but then in obvious run situations the team chooses not to run which puzzles me greatly. Also, I think the current offensive stats get inflated because the passing game only seems to consistently produce when the team goes no huddle and Ben runs the show. Outside of that the passing game seems to sputter along for the most part. This is just what I perceive as a fan watching the games. I'm sure there is more to it that I don't see, and I don't want to blame all the woes on Haley........but I really think this team would be better off without Haley calling in his chosen plays.

good reply ..a lost art at times or so it seems ..

no mistaking opinion for fact , no false claims , just gut feeling and put out there as such ...

something to be said for honest non confrontational opinion swapping in and adult manner ...

even when points vary on level of agreement ...

props

[st33lersguy]

We have the AFC's leading rusher, the AFC's leading receiver, Big Ben (though he has been shaky the last couple games) and nothing else. No O-line, no defense, no special teams, no coaching. You got to have more than just skill position players if you want to win

[Mojouw]

Arians has demostrated everywhere that he has coached that he can put together an offense that can post big #'s in the passing game. Kelly Holcombe. Derek Anderson. Let alone Ben and Luck. He has never put together an offense that really ran the ball well. TE's get lost in his scheme as well.

Haley can coordinate a different kind of offense. It caters to its "big" weapons more - Fitz in Arizona, Bowe and Charles in KC and Bell and Brown here. Although in previous stops he seemed allergic to rushing the ball, he has gone to that here.

The stats posted by Dwins seem to indicate that the results end up at the same place through different means.

I will say this, I do not care for how predicable, at least to me, the offense seems under Haley. Quick hitters to the strong side reciever and runs behind the right side of the line.

At least Arians had a few innovations and wrinkles. He really developed and drove defenses nuts with that triple stack on one side and a speedy/big wideout on the other. What does Haley confuse people with? Besides his playcalling!

[fansince'76]

so as bad as it seems we have improved under Haley yet he gets as much or more criticism than B.A. got

just saying

Sorry, I gotta disagree there. Haley gets nowhere near the amount of criticism that Arians got. Not even close. When Arians was still here, he got not only the blame for offensive breakdowns, but defensive and even ST breakdowns as well. He was THE de facto scapegoat for pretty much EVERY problem encountered by the Steelers from 2007-2011. And I can pull up threads from not only here but elsewhere to prove it.

[zulater]

Sorry, I gotta disagree there. Haley gets nowhere near the amount of criticism that Arians got. Not even close. When Arians was still here, he got not only the blame for offensive breakdowns, but defensive and even ST breakdowns as well. He was THE de facto scapegoat for pretty much EVERY problem encountered by the Steelers from 2007-2011. And I can pull up threads from not only here but elsewhere to prove it.

Disagree.I just think you were more sensitive to criticism of Bruce.

[fansince'76]

Disagree.I just think you were more sensitive to criticism of Bruce.

Funny, but I NEVER heard criticism of LeBeau when Bruce was still around. Not even in 2009 when the defense surrendered five 4th quarter leads. Every one of those losses got pinned on Arians. But LeBeau is a lightning rod for criticism now.

[zulater]

Funny, but I NEVER heard criticism of LeBeau when Bruce was still around. Not even in 2009 when the defense surrendered five 4th quarter leads. But LeBeau is a lightning rod for criticism now.

Defense was never this bad before. They had bad moments, but very few terrible games.

[fansince'76]

Defense was never this bad before. They had bad moments, but very few terrible games.

Have you really forgotten 2009? Losing a 10-point lead in the 4th quarter to a 4-12 Chiefs team? Getting torched for 3 TDs by Gradkowski and Louis Murphy and a 5-11 Raiders team in the 4th quarter of that game? The excuse then was always that Arians' offense didn't score enough.

[zulater]

Have you really forgotten 2009? Losing a 10-point lead in the 4th quarter to a 4-12 Chiefs team? Getting torched for 3 TDs by Gradkowski and Louis Murphy and a 5-11 Raiders team in the 4th quarter of that game? The excuse then was always that Arians' offense didn't score enough.

I think you have selective memory. There was plenty of criticism of the defense that year. And as I recall I think we might have tied a record for special teams returns for TD's allowed.

Right now, today, the venom and total hatred, yes that word applies sad to say, the hatred for Haley is greater than for any player or coach I've ever seen for any Pittsburgh team in my life. Mark Malone on steroids level of hate we're talking.

[fansince'76]

I think you have selective memory. There was plenty of criticism of the defense that year. And as I recall I think we might have tied a record for special teams returns for TD's allowed.

Right now, today, the venom and total hatred, yes that word applies sad to say, the hatred for Haley is greater than for any player or coach I've ever seen for any Pittsburgh team in my life. Mark Malone on steroids level of hate we're talking.

As far as selective memory goes, I'm tempted to claim the same of you, but we'll agree to disagree here.

[Psycho Ward 86]

the thing between the bruce arians vs. todd haley is that they can be good OC's in some regards, and just dumbasses for completely different reasons.

Bruce Arians:
Pros--> -Didn't reign in Ben, was vocal about encouraging his QB to make his signature extended plays because he doesn't want to change the kind of QB he is
-Lots of deep/intermediate passes that utilize the talent of our best weapon (Ben)
Cons--> -Underutilizes the hell out of his tight ends and RB's as receiving weapons even if they are good/capable
-Has a hard on for the deep ball even if the O-line cant block for the situation because they suck (at the time)
-Sucks balls in the redzone

Todd Haley:
Pros--> -Strongly utilizes tight ends and RB's as receiving weapons
-Utilizes short pass to keep our franchise QB clean
Cons--> -Sucks balls in the red zone
-Doesn't give Ben enough control of the offense
-Doesn't use play action even if were running the ball well AND we have a QB who has a history of immense success under such types of plays

pick your poison i suppose. ive hated bruce for most of his time here. i tried to be patient with todd but after the browns game, im done. they are both idiots. Bruce is at least a good head coach though it seems.

[zulater]

As far as selective memory goes, I'm tempted to claim the same of you, but we'll agree to disagree here.

Truth be told I defended Arians for years. I wanted a change at the end, because I thought the only way Ben would grow and stop taking so many hits was if he was seperated from his buddy Bruce.

Yeah heat of the moment I blistered Bruce on occasion. But the level of animosity was always borne of temporary frustration and never personal in nature.

I truly dislike Haley. His off the field behavior, his unprofessional approach to his job ( missing a flight to a game) has proven to be an embarrassment to this team. His play calling and game planning is beyond atrocious. I'm far from alone here.

So the difference to me, is that we grew tired of Bruce's play calling, and handling of Ben. We thought Ben progressed as far as he could under Bruce's tutelage, so we thought change was needed.

Haley, we just know he sucks at his job like no one else, he's a shit person, and we want him gone yesterday.

[Steelerette]

Okay so the knock on Haley is that he sucks in the Red Zone and doesn't give Ben the offense, but we're also saying that Ben runs the red zone offense and is making awful calls there...

How about this. We haven't had a real set of tackles in years. You can get around that while you're working with an extended field but once you get in the redzone, there's a lot less guesswork for the defense and they can really take advantage of Beachum and the rest of our awful tackle play over the years...

[Steelerette]

Arians was criticized for trying to be a magician - i.e. he was brilliant but he called plays for the players he wished he had, instead of the ones he really had.

Haley is criticized for not trying to be a magician - i.e. realpolitik and predictability in his playcalls and just trying not to get Ben creamed.

Pick your poison folks. I think in both cases the root of our problem was roster talent level. Is that the fault of the scouting department? The guys doing the development? The GM? Colbert has had some bad drafts in hindsight but they always seem quite good right after draft day. Nonetheless he might be the scapegoat, deserved or not. Maybe he does.

Unless we wind up with a new GM who has license to adjust the staff as he wishes, I think after seeing Arians go elsewhere and succeed, the Rooneys are going to extend quite a bit more patience toward Haley than most of us wish they would. Tomlin's seat would be the hotter one - if either of them were hot at all. They might not be.

____________-

The biggest question I would have for Haley is, we do have some elite playmakers on offense. Bell is even a dang good receiver in his own right. We can probably afford to have that one less WR out there, and going max protect. So why aren't we seeing it?

[Craic]

Nope . . .

Here's the question we should be asking. And yeah, everyone, hold on, because you're going to throw something at the screen after reading me asking this question . . .

Why aren't we coming out in an I formation and, to use my wife's phrase, barrel-assing straight through the tackles? Our run game WORKS now. In fact, it is a very good run game. So, dominate and control, and then when they start sneaking up, burn them up top, until they're too tired to defend either. Go with what we have that works, and right now, it's the run game. SO line 'em up in an I and pound the ball.

(And, the difference between me saying this now, and what some were wanting a couple years ago, is that as soon as defenses adjust, I'm all for flipping and putting the ball through the air for 500 yards).

[blackngldblood]

Nope . . .

Here's the question we should be asking. And yeah, everyone, hold on, because you're going to throw something at the screen after reading me asking this question . . .

Why aren't we coming out in an I formation and, to use my wife's phrase, barrel-assing straight through the tackles? Our run game WORKS now. In fact, it is a very good run game. So, dominate and control, and then when they start sneaking up, burn them up top, until they're too tired to defend either. Go with what we have that works, and right now, it's the run game. SO line 'em up in an I and pound the ball.

(And, the difference between me saying this now, and what some were wanting a couple years ago, is that as soon as defenses adjust, I'm all for flipping and putting the ball through the air for 500 yards).

It's because Todd Haley likes to get all cutsie with the offense for some dumb ass reason. I just don't understand why our coordinator's feel the need to keep things complicated when the players show they can't handle it! Damn it, LeBeau, dumb it down for Tuitt and Shamarko and get the young players on the field! Cam Thomas should be running the hotdog cart outside of the stadium.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[zulater]

Nope . . .

Here's the question we should be asking. And yeah, everyone, hold on, because you're going to throw something at the screen after reading me asking this question . . .

Why aren't we coming out in an I formation and, to use my wife's phrase, barrel-assing straight through the tackles? Our run game WORKS now. In fact, it is a very good run game. So, dominate and control, and then when they start sneaking up, burn them up top, until they're too tired to defend either. Go with what we have that works, and right now, it's the run game. SO line 'em up in an I and pound the ball.

(And, the difference between me saying this now, and what some were wanting a couple years ago, is that as soon as defenses adjust, I'm all for flipping and putting the ball through the air for 500 yards).



Perfect example of one of Haley's almost good play calls was the 3rd and goal run to LeVeon in the 1st quarter. DeCastro and Pouncey carve out a nice hole LeVeon steps into it looking good, but here comes 26 on the other side filling the hole and meeting him with momentum, stopping him for just a two yard gain, short of the goal line. Had a fullback, a tight end, or pulling guard led LeVeon into the hole it's almost certainly a touchdown.