FIRE MIKE TOMLIN!!

[86WARD]

That is all.

[polamalubeast]

Bring backs Cowher!!!

[steel9guy]

I didn't defend him after last week and I never will again. He's a joke. Never prepared to play bad teams. There is no excuse or argument for his tenure here since 09. I'm so tired of being embarrassed.

[Godfather]

Trade Ben. Sell the team to Mark Cuban. Retire LeBeau. Fire Haley.

[st33lersguy]

Fire that senile old fart LeBeau right now

[Count Steeler]

It is time. Tomlin is not a winner anymore.

[fansince'76]

I really can't defend him anymore. Not going to try to either. Unless this team somehow turns things around and makes the playoffs and makes a deep run, I think he needs to be given his walking papers.

[Hindes204]

I really can't defend him anymore. Not going to try to either. Unless this team somehow turns things around and makes the playoffs and makes a deep run, I think he needs to be given his walking papers.

Yup...I was behind him for a long time, I'm finally fed up. He's gotta go

[SteelerFanInStl]

Tomlin, Haley and Lebeau all need to go.

I wonder if James is re-thinking his decision to come back now?

[86WARD]

I really can't defend him anymore. Not going to try to either. Unless this team somehow turns things around and makes the playoffs and makes a deep run, I think he needs to be given his walking papers.

Feeling is obviously mutual.

The team just isn't prepared on a week-to-week basis. The team plays undisciplined. Mentally, they just aren't there. Then there's the little things, the basic things that they just don't do...like tackle.

[Shoes]

He'll blame everyone except himself, the complete opposite of Rivera last week, who put the blame on the coaching staff. The only thing Tomlin is consistent at is gaining more weight each year.

[MrPgh]

I don't disagree with the OP, but the problems with this team go higher than Tomlin.

[X-Terminator]

I don't disagree with the OP, but the problems with this team go higher than Tomlin.

You know I've said this too. Ever since Art II took over the reigns of this team, they have gotten progressively worse. But yet, not many people want to blame him for what's happened. Still though, Tomlin is a large part of the problem. The lack of discipline and preparation is alarming, and that starts with him.

[Mojouw]

Tomlin can not make William Gay and Cortez Allen better cornerbacks. That is the single biggest reason this team lost today. Tampa's outside receivers beat their man (whoever it was) like a drum all day long.

[fansince'76]

You know I've said this too. Ever since Art II took over the reigns of this team, they have gotten progressively worse. But yet, not many people want to blame him for what's happened.

Hard to fire the owner.

[SteelerFanInStl]

I don't disagree with the OP, but the problems with this team go higher than Tomlin.

I agree. The problems started with Art taking over the team.

[JayC]

add colbert to the list as well. we are reaping the benefits of not ever drafting a cornerback right now in the past few years before the 4th+ round.

[fansince'76]

I wonder if James is re-thinking his decision to come back now?

Doubtful. Teams weren't exactly beating down his door until we re-signed him out of desperation due to injury.

[X-Terminator]

Tomlin can not make William Gay and Cortez Allen better cornerbacks. That is the single biggest reason this team lost today. Tampa's outside receivers beat their man (whoever it was) like a drum all day long.

Which, I might point yet again, was why I was upset that they passed on Dennard and took Shazier. Tomlin was in the room when the pick happened, so he bears some responsibility for not addressing that glaring need. Colbert deserves far more, though, not just for that pick but also for not addressing it in FA when there were decent options available for a reasonable price.

[MrPgh]

Hard to fire the owner.

He doesn't need to be fired, he just needs to stop doing the job the football ops people should be doing. If Art II doesn't trust the current football people, fire them and hire new football people, then stay the hell out of their way.

[Count Steeler]

Doubtful. Teams weren't exactly beating down his door until we re-signed him out of desperation due to injury.

Still don't think it was the right move long term. Bring in Howard Jones and let him learn. This team is not going anywhere. Time to accept that and give the younger guys some reps. McCullers should be dressed from now on. It is such BS to see him on the inactive list. That may mean sitting Keisel, tough.

Tuitt also needs more playing time.

[X-Terminator]

Hard to fire the owner.

Of course not, but the man has meddled in the football decisions way too much. So blame should be left at his feet as well.

[SteelerFanInStl]

Doubtful. Teams weren't exactly beating down his door until we re-signed him out of desperation due to injury.

James wasn't interested in coming back and playing for any other team. He only wanted to come back to the Steelers and that was only after Troy, Keisel and Ike talked to him about it for hours.

[fansince'76]

James wasn't interested in coming back and playing for any other team. He only wanted to come back to the Steelers and that was only after Troy, Keisel and Ike talked to him about it for hours.

You actually believe that narrative? The Bengals cut him back in March. No other team wanted him, including the Steelers, until the rash of injuries they sustained in the Carolina game.

[SteelerFanInStl]

You actually believe that narrative? The Bengals cut him back in March. No other team wanted him, including the Steelers, until the rash of injuries they sustained in the Carolina game.

Why wouldn't I? You can say a lot of things about James but he's a very honest guy. He's also a guy who is very family oriented. He didn't want to go to a team that was going to take him far away from his family.

[GBMelBlount]

The lack of discipline and preparation is alarming, and that starts with him.

Agreed.

[fansince'76]

Why wouldn't I? You can say a lot of things about James but he's a very honest guy. He's also a guy who is very family oriented. He didn't want to go to a team that was going to take him far away from his family.

I guess. Personally, I see a guy who has no chance to make anywhere near NFL money anywhere else going for one last payday. And at 36 years of age, he's still a young man everywhere except on the gridiron.

Let's face it, NOBODY is going to hire him for a studio job. Not with his candor. He won't sit there and carry water for the league and push Goodell's agenda. And we all know how he feels about Goodell himself.

[86WARD]

Tomlin can not make William Gay and Cortez Allen better cornerbacks. That is the single biggest reason this team lost today. Tampa's outside receivers beat their man (whoever it was) like a drum all day long.

Didn't catch all the 15 yard penalties didja? Tomlin never has this team prepared. They're a bunch of spoiled slackers and it shows on the field. Week in and week out. It's consistently bad and that starts with Tomlin!

[SteelerFanInStl]

Let's face it, NOBODY is going to hire him for a studio job. Not with his candor. He won't sit there and carry water for the league and push Goodell's agenda. And we all know how he feels about Goodell himself.

James hates the cameras so that wouldn't even enter my mind for him.

[Mojouw]

Didn't catch all the 15 yard penalties didja? Tomlin never has this team prepared. They're a bunch of spoiled slackers and it shows on the field. Week in and week out. It's consistently bad and that starts with Tomlin!

I have pointed out the 15 yard penalties multiple times - maybe not on this thread. But I ask you what is Tomlin to do? Multiple facemasks and taunting penalties are not coaching deficiencies. That is on an individual player to do his job properly.

Also do to the lack of talent depth on the roster, as I mentioned elsewhere, Tomlin can not do anything in game. Gonna sit Allen so BW Webb can play? Gonna sit Heyward so Cam Thomas plays more? Going to sit Beachum so Mike Adams can get Ben killed?

Everyone is reacting like this was a championship caliber team that got beat today. This is an AVERAGE NFL team that got beat by another AVERAGE NFL team. Not very shocking.

Now they lose to Jacksonville, and make room on the fire everybody train for me!

[Shoes]

I have pointed out the 15 yard penalties multiple times - maybe not on this thread. But I ask you what is Tomlin to do? Multiple facemasks and taunting penalties are not coaching deficiencies. That is on an individual player to do his job properly.

Also do to the lack of talent depth on the roster, as I mentioned elsewhere, Tomlin can not do anything in game. Gonna sit Allen so BW Webb can play? Gonna sit Heyward so Cam Thomas plays more? Going to sit Beachum so Mike Adams can get Ben killed?

Everyone is reacting like this was a championship caliber team that got beat today. This is an AVERAGE NFL team that got beat by another AVERAGE NFL team. Not very shocking.

Now they lose to Jacksonville, and make room on the fire everybody train for me!

I'll save you a seat and newspaper. :chuckle:

[vader29]

516322230364426240

[86WARD]

What's Tomlin to do? He's the head coach. It's his job to make sure the players do their job properly and if they don't, it's his job to make the necessary adjustments or punishments. I'm not complaining about personnel. I'm complaining about his lack of discipline, his lack of preparation, his lack of clock management skills, the shitty play calling on both sides of the ball...that's all coaching.

[Shoes]

516322230364426240

Wonder what he thinks of Tomlin?

[86WARD]

I'll save you a seat and newspaper. :chuckle:

Lol. Gonna need to add more cars to that train...

[Shoes]

What's Tomlin to do? He's the head coach. It's his job to make sure the players do their job properly and if they don't, it's his job to make the necessary adjustments or punishments. I'm not complaining about personnel. I'm complaining about his lack of discipline, his lack of preparation, his lack of clock management skills, the shitty play calling on both sides of the ball...that's all coaching.


…….and all done in arrogance.

[steelerdude15]

I have a question for everyone. How exactly is Art getting in the way of things? I'm not trying to argue with anyone, but I want to see what everyone's opinions are. I mean, other than telling the media he would like the Steelers to resign Ben, saying he would like to see the team run better (which they are), and the possibility of being involved with Arians leaving, what else has he done?

[fansince'76]

I have a question for everyone. How exactly is Art getting in the way of things? I'm not trying to argue with anyone, but I want to see what everyone's opinions are. I mean, other than telling the media he would like the Steelers to resign Ben, saying he would like to see the team run better (which they are), and the possibility of being involved with Arians leaving, what else has he done?

It's pretty much a foregone conclusion that he hired Haley as well. But the comparisons with Jerry Jones are ludicrous.

[X-Terminator]

I have a question for everyone. How exactly is Art getting in the way of things? I'm not trying to argue with anyone, but I want to see what everyone's opinions are. I mean, other than telling the media he would like the Steelers to resign Ben, saying he would like to see the team run better (which they are), and the possibility of being involved with Arians leaving, what else has he done?

He also "neutered" Ben. Let's face it, while he hasn't been taking as much punishment as he has in the past, he doesn't have the same "mojo" he once had. When he's out there doing his thing, he is at his best, and why they continue to try to rein him in is beyond me. Ben is a playmaker. Let him make plays. It's almost as if Art II has a disdain for franchise QBs.

To me, it's not a coincidence that once he took over control of the team and started meddling in the football ops, it's been a consistent slide down shit mountain. As much heat as Tomlin and Colbert are rightfully taking, he should not escape blame himself.

[NCSteeler]

Tomlin can not make William Gay and Cortez Allen better cornerbacks. That is the single biggest reason this team lost today. Tampa's outside receivers beat their man (whoever it was) like a drum all day long.
Then instead of drafting another lber hr should have spoke up and draftsman damn corners. We have been praying Ike would find the fountain of youth.

[jb500ex]

Don't worry Tomlin will get real tough this week , no pool or ping pong for rookies that will fix the problem

[silver & black]

Hard to fire the owner. yes it is! :wink02:

[Moose]

What's Tomlin to do? He's the head coach. It's his job to make sure the players do their job properly and if they don't, it's his job to make the necessary adjustments or punishments. I'm not complaining about personnel. I'm complaining about his lack of discipline, his lack of preparation, his lack of clock management skills, the shitty play calling on both sides of the ball...that's all coaching.

Exactly ! Stupid penalties all day long ! We gave them yard's equal to a complete football field ! Are you FK'N kidding me ?! And how aggravating it was to sit and watch that damn Tomlin's face on the sidelines ! Cowher would have had a 5 gal bucket full of spit by 3rd qtr.. Rooney's wake the FK up, your family's franchise and history is slowly being destroyed.

[Mojouw]

So the solution to the problem is to get inches from a players face and yell and spit at them? I hadn't realized that this made more talented and mentally disciplined players.

And to think all that time wasted on the practice field and the weight room.

[fansince'76]

So the solution to the problem is to get inches from a players face and yell and spit at them? I hadn't realized that this made more talented and mentally disciplined players.

Yeah, it sure stopped Porter from getting ejected from a game for getting into a fight with a Browns player during pregame warmups...

It sure stopped Burress from spiking the ball in the field of play and turning it over after catching what would have been a sure TD pass...

It sure stopped the team as a whole from consistently coming up small in the biggest of games...

[tube517]

Yeah, it sure stopped Porter from getting ejected from a game for getting into a fight with a Browns player during pregame warmups...

It sure stopped Burress from spiking the ball in the field of play and turning it over after catching what would have been a sure TD pass...

It sure stopped the team as a whole from consistently coming up small in the biggest of games...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u4cdb8i64zQ :chuckle:

[Mojouw]

Yeah, it sure stopped Porter from getting ejected from a game for getting into a fight with a Browns player during pregame warmups...

It sure stopped Burress from spiking the ball in the field of play and turning it over after catching what would have been a sure TD pass...

It sure stopped the team as a whole from consistently coming up small in the biggest of games...

Didn't Deon Figures get thrown out of a playoff game for kicking a Chiefs player in the skull?

Didn't O'donnell and his WR's make the wrong reads and cause multiple horrendous INTs in the SB?

Just wanted to get in on the fun...

[Moose]

Are you fk'n kidding me Mojouw ? That's all you took from that thread ? LOL Yea, the solution must be the spitting....LOL

[fansince'76]

Didn't Deon Figures get thrown out of a playoff game for kicking a Chiefs player in the skull?

Didn't O'donnell and his WR's make the wrong reads and cause multiple horrendous INTs in the SB?

Just wanted to get in on the fun...

I'm not thrilled with Tomlin either, but I am getting really tired of the overly-romanticized revisionist history that is being played with Cowher's tenure.

[Mojouw]

Are you fk'n kidding me Mojouw ? That's all you took from that thread ? LOL Yea, the solution must be the spitting....LOL

It's about the only tangible action that has been proposed. I personally think Tomlin should bench Alllen, much like was done with Taylor by a certain spitting coach. However, as I have pointed out -- who plays then? I would also look at benching Beachum and Wallace -- but who plays then?

No one wants to talk about that. Just easier to say that Tomlin and co. are lazy, call a bad game, etc. Allows everyone to deny the fact that this is an average team in the midst of a significant rebuild.

- - - Updated - - -


I'm not thrilled with Tomlin either, but I am getting really tired of the overly-romanticized revisionist history that is being played with Cowher's tenure.

I agree. Here is some actual data:

"In 2000 Bill Cowher was in his eighth year as head coach of the Steelers, having succeeded legendary coach Chuck Noll in 1992. By this time Cowher had compiled a record of 86-57 (.597 winning percentage) and had led the Steelers to playoff appearances in his first six years and one lost Super Bowl, although in the three years prior to the arrival of Colbert, from 1998 through 2000, Cowher struggled with two losing seasons in a row while finishing 9-7 in 2000 and compiling a 22-26 record and failed to make the playoffs all three years. By comparison, Mike Tomlin in his first six years after having succeeded Cowher in 2007 has compiled a record of 63-33 (.656 winning percentage) and has been to two Super Bowls, winning one and has not had a losing season, but has failed to make the playoffs twice."

[Moose]

Thanks Mojouw for the comparison stats. I'm just getting tired of this losing to teams we should be beating (especially at home). And then hearing nothing but lame excuses from the coaches the next day. These losses are what makes/breaks seasons and play offs chances.

[Mojouw]

Thanks Mojouw for the comparison stats. I'm just getting tired of this losing to teams we should be beating (especially at home). And then hearing nothing but lame excuses from the coaches the next day. These losses are what makes/breaks seasons and play offs chances.

I would agree. This loss could mean the difference between being the second wild card at 9-7 or 10-6 and sitting at home at 8-8 again (or even 9-7 for that matter!).

I really do understand that. I also get that some amount of the players on the field performance, or lack thereof has to reflect back on the coaching staff.

But I argue that I am not sure this team is that much better than 9-7 with anyone coaching it. Also, we need to acknowledge the good things this staff did on Sunday. Such as:

1. Integrated 3 new starters to the defense (Moats, Spence, and whatever dirtball was playing nickle corner) in one week. Not easy.

2. Seems to have a knack for developing WRs. Wheaton is really stepping up.

3. Got Gilbert to pull his head out of his ass and play somewhere in the neighborhood of his contract/potential.

4. Have Pouncey and DeCastro playing as a devastating run-blocking combination.

5. Have "fixed" the DL issues (not sure if that was because the Bucs threw for over 300+ yards...). Have Thomas even contributing.

6. Over the course of last season and this off-season have pulled a lethal run game out of their asses.

I get that the penalties are frustrating. I get that some don't like this coaching staff's demeanor and press conference style, but they aren't just sitting around doing nothing.

[Moose]

I think the coaches are 'doing' things, but also NOT doing things. Just looking at the tampa game, why in the hell wouldn't you let Ben throw the ball at the end of the game when it was 3rd and 5 with 40+ seconds left to win the game ? Why would you run a delay and end up losing 2 yds? That was a really bad call. You and I know Ben could have picked that up with a couple pass plays against tampa and at least run a couple plays to eat up 40 seconds before having to punt. And it's the coaches fault to put up with these penalties that are game killers ! Taunting ? Dancing in the endzone ? Come on. You're a player that is caught smoking dobbies I don' think drawing attention to yourself is a good idea. Act like a professional. Face mask penalties. Unnecessary roughness. These were stupid ass penalties that should be dealt with immediately. And we both know that it wasn't just the tampa game, it's been going on in too many games. And Tomilin is doing nothing about it, just lip service come Monday mornings. No more excuses.

[Mojouw]

I think the coaches are 'doing' things, but also NOT doing things. Just looking at the tampa game, why in the hell wouldn't you let Ben throw the ball at the end of the game when it was 3rd and 5 with 40+ seconds left to win the game ? Why would you run a delay and end up losing 2 yds? That was a really bad call. You and I know Ben could have picked that up with a couple pass plays against tampa and at least run a couple plays to eat up 40 seconds before having to punt. And it's the coaches fault to put up with these penalties that are game killers ! Taunting ? Dancing in the endzone ? Come on. You're a player that is caught smoking dobbies I don' think drawing attention to yourself is a good idea. Act like a professional. Face mask penalties. Unnecessary roughness. These were stupid ass penalties that should be dealt with immediately. And we both know that it wasn't just the tampa game, it's been going on in too many games. And Tomilin is doing nothing about it, just lip service come Monday mornings. No more excuses.

Agree with the offensive play calling on the last drive. Marred an otherwise good game plan by Haley.

As to the penalties -- see this database.

http://www.nflpenalties.com/

Prior to this season the Steelers have been one of the least penalized teams in the league. This season, they are in some good company.

[stillers4me]

Again, just out of curiosity, how many of yesterday's penalties were actually "non penalties". Like Troy and Mike Mitchells were in the Ravens game that cost us 30 yards but not fined.

[86WARD]

Really...what does Cowher have to do with Tomlin's inability to coach the basics?

[fansince'76]

Don't worry Tomlin will get real tough this week , no pool or ping pong for rookies that will fix the problem

http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/034/719/win15.jpg

[Craic]

http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/034/719/win15.jpg

LOL FS.

Guess ole' JB Troll forgot that after doing that, we actually started winning and came within a fieldgoal of making the playoffs last year.

[st33lersguy]

Really...what does Cowher have to do with Tomlin's inability to coach the basics?

Exactly

[86WARD]

Here's a great example. When was the last time Le'Veon Bell got a taunting penalty at Michigan State? I'll give you a hint… Never!

[jb500ex]

http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/034/719/win15.jpg
How come you don't post your wife's pic anymore?

[jb500ex]

LOL FS.

Guess ole' JB Troll forgot that after doing that, we actually started winning and came within a fieldgoal of making the playoffs last year.
Did you go to the Almost made the playoffs at 8-8 parade ?

[fansince'76]

http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/bb136/garyb12001/Troll_zpsd847c60a.jpg

[Count Steeler]

Again, just out of curiosity, how many of yesterday's penalties were actually "non penalties". Like Troy and Mike Mitchells were in the Ravens game that cost us 30 yards but not fined.

Truly, I don't remember any non penalties. However, this crew was atrocious because they missed a lot of holding calls.

[st33lersguy]

Did you go to the Almost made the playoffs at 8-8 parade ?

Does your mother still let you live in her basement?

[muncher]

can you imagine this team without ben?

[stillers4me]

can you imagine this team without ben?

Is that a trick question?

[fansince'76]

Knew it was just a matter of time before the other half of the "clown posse" showed up...

[polamalubeast]

After the 1999 season, the Steelers has decided to keep Cowher but they fired Tom Donahoe and that was after two non-playoff season

If the Steelers has not a winning season for a 3rd straight season, the Steelers will have to make major changes...If the Steelers have 8-8 or worse this year, next year will not be better because the schedule is going to be brutal

[Moose]

If the Steelers has not a winning season for a 3rd straight season, the Steelers will have to make major changes...If the Steelers have 8-8 or worse this year, next year will not be better because the schedule is going to be brutal

Oh hell, isn't that something to look forward to ! :(

[X-Terminator]

can you imagine this team without ben?

So, um...where were you last week? Did you get lost trying to find this forum or something?


Did you go to the Almost made the playoffs at 8-8 parade ?

Did you go play in traffic yet?

[Dwinsgames]

Did you go play in traffic yet?


he got lost looking for the street

[NCSteeler]

Watching the Patriots truly suck on defense. No talent but ya know what they are not getting penalties and when one guy did he got an ear full and sent to the locker room a play before halftime. I read an article today saying how this team plays with too much bravado for a twice 8-8 team sitting at 2-2. And that's the damn truth the coaches should be building some humility. I hope they are terribly embarrassed . And I don't think a beating of the jags should be any reason to feel better

[Dwinsgames]

Watching the Patriots truly suck on defense. No talent but ya know what they are not getting penalties and when one guy did he got an ear full and sent to the locker room a play before halftime. I read an article today saying how this team plays with too much bravado for a twice 8-8 team sitting at 2-2. And that's the damn truth the coaches should be building some humility. I hope they are terribly embarrassed . And I don't think a beating of the jags should be any reason to feel better


Honestly I am not so sure they beat the Jags .... they ALWAYS give us a hard time even when we had good teams

so in my mind its no certainty we win Sunday and I am half tempted to lay some money down on the Jags but these steelers would probably break my bank like they break my heart so I won't

[steelerdude15]

He also "neutered" Ben. Let's face it, while he hasn't been taking as much punishment as he has in the past, he doesn't have the same "mojo" he once had. When he's out there doing his thing, he is at his best, and why they continue to try to rein him in is beyond me. Ben is a playmaker. Let him make plays. It's almost as if Art II has a disdain for franchise QBs.

To me, it's not a coincidence that once he took over control of the team and started meddling in the football ops, it's been a consistent slide down shit mountain. As much heat as Tomlin and Colbert are rightfully taking, he should not escape blame himself.

I see where you are coming from, but I feel not sure I agree with all of it. I wouldn't exactly say that Art has a disdain for franchise quarterbacks when he has stated that he would like for Ben to retire a Steeler. I feel that if Art did have such a disdain, Ben wouldn't be coming back when after his contract is up and we all know Ben will be a Steeler for the rest of his career. Plus, we don't have actual proof that he has really gotten in the way of things. If there is a newspaper article or anything that shows he has gotten in the way of things, then I stand corrected.

When it comes to Ben, I still think he is a play maker and an elite quarterback. He might not scramble as much anymore and make plays that way, but he can stay in the pocket more often and make a great pass to make a play because of an improved offensive line and the offensive system that calls for quick reads and throws which in turn is to help Ben with hits from opposing players. Maybe that is why some feel he doesn't have his mojo anymore. I think Ben still has a great arm. He can still throw deep, he can sling a ball in tight spaces, and he is pretty accurate. Plus his pocket awareness has really increased the past few years and he can still scramble and make a play when needed.

- - - Updated - - -


Yeah, it sure stopped Porter from getting ejected from a game for getting into a fight with a Browns player during pregame warmups...

It sure stopped Burress from spiking the ball in the field of play and turning it over after catching what would have been a sure TD pass...

It sure stopped the team as a whole from consistently coming up small in the biggest of games...

And would allow players to be late to team meetings without being disciplined at all.

[MrPgh]

I see where you are coming from, but I feel not sure I agree with all of it. I wouldn't exactly say that Art has a disdain for franchise quarterbacks when he has stated that he would like for Ben to retire a Steeler. I feel that if Art did have such a disdain, Ben wouldn't be coming back when after his contract is up and we all know Ben will be a Steeler for the rest of his career. Plus, we don't have actual proof that he has really gotten in the way of things. If there is a newspaper article or anything that shows he has gotten in the way of things, then I stand corrected.

When it comes to Ben, I still think he is a play maker and an elite quarterback. He might not scramble as much anymore and make plays that way, but he can stay in the pocket more often and make a great pass to make a play because of an improved offensive line and the offensive system that calls for quick reads and throws which in turn is to help Ben with hits from opposing players. Maybe that is why some feel he doesn't have his mojo anymore. I think Ben still has a great arm. He can still throw deep, he can sling a ball in tight spaces, and he is pretty accurate. Plus his pocket awareness has really increased the past few years and he can still scramble and make a play when needed.

I don't know if Art II has a "disdain" for franchise QBs per say, I just think he badly lacks the football acumen to understand how the game has changed over the years.

[polamalubeast]

The steelers are the worst team in the AFC North....Unacceptable

[Dwinsgames]

The steelers are the worst team in the AFC North....Unacceptable

I am Dwinsgames and I approve of this message

[86WARD]

And after this week, nothing was done to discourage the title of this thread...

[st33lersguy]

Fire Kevin Colbert as well

[86WARD]

Fire 'em!

[stillers4me]

#BlameBieber

[vader29]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4jGSvxCRp4

[st33lersguy]

If the steelers miss the playoffs, Colbert and tomlin need to get canned.

[fansince'76]

If the steelers miss the playoffs, Colbert and tomlin need to get canned.

Something will need to be done if that's the case. This team should be at LEAST 8-2 right now. The loss to Tampa Bay and today's loss are inexcusable.

[86WARD]

I can almost give them today's loss based on the fact that they played a hard fought game against the Ravens and this is the classic "let down" game...but the Jets are just terrible and the way the Steelers played today...it was just flat, energetic, unprepared, shitty play calling...just all around a poor effort.

[st33lersguy]

The worst part about it is, now the steelers are looking at getting the 18th, 19th, or 20th picks, the worst picks. Get low draft pick without the benefit of making the playoffs

[Count Steeler]

FRUSTRATING AS HELL!

I remember he asked for his players to show some urgency in the preseason. How about you show some urgency when we play a sub par opponent?

Shameful. I know it is part of our history, but it is time to change that trend.

[steel9guy]

I don't care if you beat indy and the ravens. If we continually lose to BAD!!!! teams you need to evaluate the coach. I"VE HAD IT!

[Shoes]

The Browns are in 1st place now! LMAO!

[Count Steeler]

The Browns are in 1st place now! LMAO!

Have to say, well deserved. At least they play hungry.

[NCSteeler]

The Browns are in 1st place now! LMAO!

The browns deserve to be in first place. They kicked our ass for 6 quarters


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[NCSteeler]

I'm tired of Tomlin, but I know damn well he ain't getting fired, we'll be lucky if anything changes. My guess is we go 9-7 squeak into the playoffs and get clobbered by NE or KC . Which only means we have had improvement and everything remains the same


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[Shoes]

The browns deserve to be in first place. They kicked our ass for 6 quarters


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Agreed, after their near comeback from first game with the Steelers, I had a feeling they would be trouble in the AFC north.

[st33lersguy]

I'm tired of Tomlin, but I know damn well he ain't getting fired, we'll be lucky if anything changes. My guess is we go 9-7 squeak into the playoffs and get clobbered by NE or KC . Which only means we have had improvement and everything remains the same


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We're going 9-7, missing the playoffs by one game and getting stick with the crappy 19th or 20th pick. But since we "made improvements" nothing changes and we repeat the same thing in 2015

[SteelerFanInStl]

Fuck Tomlin! I'm sick of this shit.

[steelreserve]

We're going 9-7, missing the playoffs by one game and getting stick with the crappy 19th or 20th pick. But since we "made improvements" nothing changes and we repeat the same thing in 2015

What do you want to bet we take another linebacker or lineman with that pick, because he was the "best player available," and then don't draft a CB or NT until the fifth round, and then one of them doesn't even play and the other doesn't make the team.

[silver & black]

You guys wanting to go all Al Davis on his ass? :grin:

[st33lersguy]

What do you want to bet we take another linebacker or lineman with that pick, because he was the "best player available," and then don't draft a CB or NT until the fifth round, and then one of them doesn't even play and the other doesn't make the team.

That sounds 100% right. Frankly I hope Kevin Colbert is gone after this year as well

- - - Updated - - -

I am thankful we don't play the Raiders this year, because I'd bet the mortgage that the Steelers would be the first team to lose to the Raiders. If Mike Tomlin's steelers played an 0-14 team (generically speaking), I'd go to Vegas and bet everything I had on the 0-14 team, because I guarantee you the winning team would improve to 1-14

[st33lersguy]

You guys wanting to go all Al Davis on his ass? :grin:

Be honest Sliver & Black, you wish you guys were playing the Steelers this year

- - - Updated - - -

My sister who doesn't watch any football could field a team comprised exclusively of 5 year old girls and 5 days after being formed, they would beat the Steelers because all Mike Tomlin would be concerned about is playing down to their level

[steelerdude15]

It's absolutely amazing how one loss (yes, it was an awful loss) will bring out the worse of people and want people fired, yet when they win, there is barely a peep of it. It truly goes to show that winning does fix everything.

[NCSteeler]

It's absolutely amazing how one loss (yes, it was an awful loss) will bring out the worse of people and want people fired, yet when they win, there is barely a peep of it. It truly goes to show that winning does fix everything.

Oh I don't think you will have many cheering here, even with a win next week. But that win is certainly not a certain-tee


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[Count Steeler]

It's absolutely amazing how one loss (yes, it was an awful loss) will bring out the worse of people and want people fired, yet when they win, there is barely a peep of it. It truly goes to show that winning does fix everything.

It is not 1 loss. It is a systemic failure to defeat opponents with sub .500 records on a consistent basis. How can we put up 94 points against Indy and the Ratbirds, yet lose to Tampa Bay, the Jets and be nip and tuck to beat the Jags.

Is it on the players? Is it on the coaches? Is it on the Steelers in general? In that we don't think an opponent is worthy of our best, so we just show up and think we are going to win. After 1 or 2 of these losses something has to click and you have to say, you know what, we have to PLAY every game!

[salamander]

It's absolutely amazing how one loss (yes, it was an awful loss) will bring out the worse of people and want people fired, yet when they win, there is barely a peep of it. It truly goes to show that winning does fix everything.

Except it's not just one loss. The Steelers have had a very nasty habit of playing like garbage against inferior opponents the last couple of seasons and absolutely no one can deny that. It's these losses that ultimately hurt us in the long run.

[steelreserve]

It's absolutely amazing how one loss (yes, it was an awful loss) will bring out the worse of people and want people fired, yet when they win, there is barely a peep of it. It truly goes to show that winning does fix everything.

When they were on a roll, people were hoping that they'd finally gotten it together. This "one loss" was confirmation that, nope - same old shit.

I don't think anyone is quite so bipolar that their entire outlook about the team and the coaching staff actually changes 100% from week to week, unless they literally are bipolar. More of a willingness to cross your fingers that it was real and not just lucky. It sucks to never have any clue which team is going to show up, not to mention that's not how you go far in the playoffs.

[86WARD]

It's absolutely amazing how one loss (yes, it was an awful loss) will bring out the worse of people and want people fired, yet when they win, there is barely a peep of it. It truly goes to show that winning does fix everything.

As it's been said a few times before, it's not one loss...it's the compilation of the last few seasons...it's been a consistent thing with this team to play down to or in most cases below teams that would be considered worse than the Steelers.

I can't speak for anyone else but even if this team wins out, wins the AFC Championship, wins the Super Bowl all in a commanding blow out fashion, I would still want Tomlin fired. He's proven more times than not that he's just not a good head coach.

[st33lersguy]

The next time the Steelers will make the playoffs will be after Mike Dumblin gets fired. Had he inherited a team half as good as the one he inherited, he would not have lasted 4 years as head coach

[stillers4me]

The next time the Steelers will make the playoffs will be after Mike Dumblin gets fired. Had he inherited a team half as good as the one he inherited, he would not have lasted 4 years as head coach

You mean Cowher's 8-8 team that didn't make the playoffs?

[salamander]

You mean Cowher's 8-8 team that didn't make the playoffs?

To be fair, Cowher pretty much mailed it in that season and Ben was coming off of smashing his head into the front of a sedan.

[fansince'76]

To be fair, Cowher pretty much mailed it in that season and Ben was coming off of smashing his head into the front of a sedan.

And to be fair, a lot of people act like Tomlin inherited the '78 Steelers. He didn't.

[polamalubeast]

It was not the 1978 Steelers but the steelers had finished 15-1 in 2004 and won the SB in 2005.

In 2010, I thought Tomlin was a great coach, but unfortunately I was wrong

[fansince'76]

It was not the 1978 Steelers but the steelers had finished 15-1 in 2004 and won the SB in 2005.

In 2010, I thought Tomlin was a great coach, but unfortunately I was wrong

A 15-1 team that went 6-10 the season before and peaked in late October of that year and got embarrassed at home in yet another AFCCG, and won the SB team as a 6th seed that barely made the playoffs and played so poorly in the SB that everyone that isn't a Steelers fan still think they got gifted the game by the refs.

IOW, a very flawed team.

[polamalubeast]

A 15-1 team that peaked in late October of that year and got embarrassed at home in yet another AFCCG, and won the SB team as a 6th seed that barely made the playoffs and played so poorly in the SB that everyone that isn't a Steelers fan still think they got gifted the game by the refs.

IOW, a very flawed team.

It was two great teams, even if it was not perfect

The Steelers were 31-7 during his two years including the playoffs.

[fansince'76]

It was two great teams, even if it was not perfect

The Steelers were 31-7 during his two years including the playoffs.

It was a good team, not a great one.

[stillers4me]

Everybody forgets how bad the oline was and the Eagles crushing us and Ben almost getting killed. WHO'S LAUGHING NOW, OLINE? Remember that??? We had a great defense. ....offense, not so much.

[steelreserve]

The next time the Steelers will make the playoffs will be after Mike Dumblin gets fired. Had he inherited a team half as good as the one he inherited, he would not have lasted 4 years as head coach


You mean Cowher's 8-8 team that didn't make the playoffs?


And to be fair, a lot of people act like Tomlin inherited the '78 Steelers. He didn't.


A 15-1 team that went 6-10 the season before and peaked in late October of that year and got embarrassed at home in yet another AFCCG, and won the SB team as a 6th seed that barely made the playoffs and played so poorly in the SB that everyone that isn't a Steelers fan still think they got gifted the game by the refs.

IOW, a very flawed team.


Are you guys shitting me? It was a team that won two Super Bowls with the same guys, and very nearly won a third with most of the same players even though half of them were on their last leg. That's an awesome team.

The "crappy" 2006 team had 8 Pro Bowl players on defense alone and 4 on offense (not all in that year, obviously). (edit: wait, 7 Pro Bowl player on offense, I forgot the three from the offensive line.) Some of the other players who surprisingly never made a Pro Bowl were Santonio Holmes and Ike Taylor. That's a loaded team, and most of them stayed around for a few years.

In 2007, the defensive line was outstanding and our secondary was above-average. Today they are neither of those things.

Wherever this idea came from that Tomlin was dealt a tough hand and has done as well as could be expected, it's total horseshit. He started with at least a full house and managed it down to about a pair of 8s. Once the safety net was gone, it's been nothing but inconsistent performance at best, and a steady decline at worst. He does not have the franchise going in the right direction.

[st33lersguy]

Are you guys shitting me? It was a team that won two Super Bowls with the same guys, and very nearly won a third with most of the same players even though half of them were on their last leg. That's an awesome team.

The "crappy" 2006 team had 8 Pro Bowl players on defense alone and 4 on offense (not all in that year, obviously). (edit: wait, 7 Pro Bowl player on offense, I forgot the three from the offensive line.) Some of the other players who surprisingly never made a Pro Bowl were Santonio Holmes and Ike Taylor. That's a loaded team, and most of them stayed around for a few years.

In 2007, the defensive line was outstanding and our secondary was above-average. Today they are neither of those things.

Wherever this idea came from that Tomlin was dealt a tough hand and has done as well as could be expected, it's total horseshit. He started with at least a full house and managed it down to about a pair of 8s. Once the safety net was gone, it's been nothing but inconsistent performance at best, and a steady decline at worst. He does not have the franchise going in the right direction.

I noticed my comment was on there, I hope I didn't imply that Tomlin didn't inherit an excellent team (because I was implying that he did).
As for your comment, it puts to rest the insane idea that Tomlin didn't inherit a loaded team. Plus had Ben not been rushed back after the apendectomy (and especially after the concussion he suffered in Atlanta) they make the playoffs in 2006. Even with Ben being rushed back with the appendectomy, the 2006 team was a Ricardo Colclough fumble, a Nate Washington false start, and a Charlie Batch start (after Ben's concussion) away from 11-5

[polamalubeast]

Are you guys shitting me? It was a team that won two Super Bowls with the same guys, and very nearly won a third with most of the same players even though half of them were on their last leg. That's an awesome team.

The "crappy" 2006 team had 8 Pro Bowl players on defense alone and 4 on offense (not all in that year, obviously). (edit: wait, 7 Pro Bowl player on offense, I forgot the three from the offensive line.) Some of the other players who surprisingly never made a Pro Bowl were Santonio Holmes and Ike Taylor. That's a loaded team, and most of them stayed around for a few years.

In 2007, the defensive line was outstanding and our secondary was above-average. Today they are neither of those things.

Wherever this idea came from that Tomlin was dealt a tough hand and has done as well as could be expected, it's total horseshit. He started with at least a full house and managed it down to about a pair of 8s. Once the safety net was gone, it's been nothing but inconsistent performance at best, and a steady decline at worst. He does not have the franchise going in the right direction.




I agree

It's amazing how the steelers were loaded in 2004-2010...As result, the Steelers have made four AFC title game, three super bowl and won 2 SB

This is true than the o-line was weak in 2008 and 2010 and the position of RB was very average, but the rest of the team were loaded

[steelreserve]

I noticed my comment was on there, I hope I didn't imply that Tomlin didn't inherit an excellent team (because I was implying that he did).
As for your comment, it puts to rest the insane idea that Tomlin didn't inherit a loaded team. Plus had Ben not been rushed back after the apendectomy (and especially after the concussion he suffered in Atlanta) they make the playoffs in 2006. Even with Ben being rushed back with the appendectomy, the 2006 team was a Ricardo Colclough fumble, a Nate Washington false start, and a Charlie Batch start (after Ben's concussion) away from 11-5

No, I didn't mean it that way; I just had yours in there as the start of the argument that people were responding to you. 2006 was really a letdown year for a lot of reasons, including the coach and probably a lot of the veteran players mailing it in. That doesn't excuse the performance, but I don't think the record was really a true characterization of the talent level of that team.



I agree

It's amazing how the steelers were loaded in 2004-2010...As result, the Steelers have made four AFC title game, three super bowl and won 2 SB

This is true than the o-line was weak in 2008 and 2010 and the position of RB was very average, but the rest of the team were loaded


Also true ... the offensive line being bad around 2008 I can't really fault Tomlin for, as they lost three of their key players at once to injury, retirement and FA, and were on pretty short notice to fix things.

The fact that it's seven years and four top-2 draft picks later and they're just now starting to look like it MIGHT be fixed is inexcusable; the decline at DL and DB also is inexcusable. When you've been in charge of the team that long, if you've got personnel problems that haven't been fixed ... that is ALL YOU, KEN.

[steelerdude15]

I think my last post was a little misinterpreted, but oh well, no big deal.

[Craic]

I noticed my comment was on there, I hope I didn't imply that Tomlin didn't inherit an excellent team (because I was implying that he did).
As for your comment, it puts to rest the insane idea that Tomlin didn't inherit a loaded team. Plus had Ben not been rushed back after the apendectomy (and especially after the concussion he suffered in Atlanta) they make the playoffs in 2006. Even with Ben being rushed back with the appendectomy, the 2006 team was a Ricardo Colclough fumble, a Nate Washington false start, and a Charlie Batch start (after Ben's concussion) away from 11-5

No, he inherited a team with talent, but a team that had a lot of problems brewing as well. Porter couldn't shut his mouth, so he was gone. Alan Faneca was actively/verbally opposing coaches telling players to ignore what the OC was saying (there were a bunch of articles written on it at the time), so he was gone. Jeff Hartings was at the end of his career and retired along with Cowher. Marvel Smith was a shell of his former self his last two years (first two years with Tomlin). Kendall Simmons was losing his ability to play effectively due to his diabetes (strength issues, had to drop weight as well). Who were their backups? We were left with an aging line and no one situated to replace them. The stake through the heart was Faneca's childish behavior.

Hines Ward was the only good/reliable WR—Santonio Holmes was a rookie. He has a nice place in our heart because of his punt return and catch in the SB, but career wise, he sucks. His career target to reception rate stands at 53 percent, 3 percent LESS than Wallace's 56 percent. Outside of him, we were relying on Cedric Wilson (56 percent reception rate) and hoping that a kid named Nate Washington would come along. A kid who, wait for it . . . has a 52 percent career reception rate.

In the running game, we'd lost the bus the previous year, and Cowher replaced him with Dookie to be Willie P's change-up back, because the Duce Staley experiment had failed.

On the defense, two of our linebackers were Clark Haggans and Larry Foote, both of whom were journeyman level at best. Haggains benefited tremendously from having Porter on his other side. Foote only grew to anything more than journeyman after he came back from Detroit and took over the LILB position the following year.

________

So, did we have a talented team? Yes. But anyone who thinks that all Tomlin had to do was come in and make sure he stayed out of the way is fooling themselves. He dealt with a host of potentially locker room splitting problems, two accusations against his franchise QB, complete turnover on his o line with nobody waiting in the wings that was anything close to ready to play (thank you very much, Russ Grimm), a host of wide receivers that couldn't catch the football except for Hines Ward, a one-man run game with no one who could relieve him effectively, and the two biggest moves on defense to stabilize a very short bench was bringing in old man Chad Brown, Rodney Bailey (our cut from the previous year) and hoping beyond hope that Travis Kirschke could still play if called upon.

[st33lersguy]

No, I didn't mean it that way; I just had yours in there as the start of the argument that people were responding to you. 2006 was really a letdown year for a lot of reasons, including the coach and probably a lot of the veteran players mailing it in. That doesn't excuse the performance, but I don't think the record was really a true characterization of the talent level of that team.


OK, just wanted to make sure

[tube517]

A 15-1 team that went 6-10 the season before and peaked in late October of that year and got embarrassed at home in yet another AFCCG, and won the SB team as a 6th seed that barely made the playoffs and played so poorly in the SB that everyone that isn't a Steelers fan still think they got gifted the game by the refs.

IOW, a very flawed team.

The 2004 (15-1) team barely beat the Jets in the playoffs. Barely. The Jets' kicker missed 2 FGs and we played at home. We struggled and barely won. People forget that game. I don't. I was in a Steelers bar and we all had 911 on speed dial and too many shots of I can't remember.

[polamalubeast]

The 2004 (15-1) team barely beat the Jets in the playoffs. Barely. The Jets' kicker missed 2 FGs and we played at home. We struggled and barely won. People forget that game. I don't. I was in a Steelers bar and we all had 911 on speed dial and too many shots of I can't remember.

The problem in 2004, the Steelers have had their peak too soon...But it was a special season for me, since the Steelers had finally had a franchise QB and a 15-1 seasons are very rare in the NFL.

Cowher would have deserved to win the COY in 2004 too.

[tube517]

The problem in 2004, the Steelers have had their peak too soon...But it was a special season for me, since the Steelers had finally had a franchise QB and a 15-1 seasons are very rare in the NFL.

Cowher would have deserved to win the COY in 2004 too.

They peaked too soon and got tired. That was the last great "running" team of the Steelers. It was power running and Sweatpants model Duce probably would have come close to the rushing title had he not gotten injured. They did what they could with a rookie QB.

Cowher's masterpiece was the playoff run of 2005. 8 straight games to the title. He finally had the balls to play to win.

[fansince'76]

I noticed my comment was on there, I hope I didn't imply that Tomlin didn't inherit an excellent team (because I was implying that he did).
As for your comment, it puts to rest the insane idea that Tomlin didn't inherit a loaded team. Plus had Ben not been rushed back after the apendectomy (and especially after the concussion he suffered in Atlanta) they make the playoffs in 2006. Even with Ben being rushed back with the appendectomy, the 2006 team was a Ricardo Colclough fumble, a Nate Washington false start, and a Charlie Batch start (after Ben's concussion) away from 11-5

Besides Ben, how was the offense "loaded?" The offensive line sucked - for years. Willie Parker was the feature back - a HUGE step down from the Bus. Ward was our best WR - for years. That's NOT a loaded offense. And 2/3 of our salary cap was tied up in - wait for it - the defense during the same time period, which is exactly why it wasn't a loaded offense. A part of me still wonders why Ben didn't ask for a trade years ago.

I'll say it again - a good team. Not a great one.

[steelreserve]

Besides Ben, how was the offense "loaded?" The offensive line sucked - for years. Willie Parker was the feature back - a HUGE step down from the Bus. Ward was our best WR - for years. That's NOT a loaded offense. And 2/3 of our salary cap was tied up in - wait for it - the defense during the same time period.

I'll say it again - a good team. Not a great one.


Wait, wait ... I thought Parker was supposed one of the best backs in the league. You're just one of those fans who can never seem to stop being obsessed with Bettis and hates on Parker just because he has a different style!

Everyone knows that force equals velocity plus SPEED, so if you have 4.3 speed in the 40 and crashed directly into a lineman's ass at a dead sprint, you would theoretically move the pile about 4 inches more than an average running back. Parker was balls-out the greatest RB in the history of the Steelers, or maybe the world ... *BAM!* the world.

[fansince'76]

Wait, wait ... I thought Parker was supposed one of the best backs in the league.

NEVER made that claim. Just said he didn't suck out loud as badly as many claimed. He certainly wasn't as bad as Walter Abercrombie.

[st33lersguy]

Besides Ben, how was the offense "loaded?" The offensive line sucked - for years. Willie Parker was the feature back - a HUGE step down from the Bus. Ward was our best WR - for years. That's NOT a loaded offense. And 2/3 of our salary cap was tied up in - wait for it - the defense during the same time period, which is exactly why it wasn't a loaded offense. A part of me still wonders why Ben didn't ask for a trade years ago.

I'll say it again - a good team. Not a great one.

He inherited a championship caliber team with a slew of pro bowlers who have made contributions to 2 Super Bowl wins in just 4 years (1 before and 1 after tomlin's arrival). It was a team with a lot of talent and championship pedigree. That is more than just a good team to me. No they weren't the caliber of the 70s steelers but extremely few teams in nfl history were. It is very tough to win just one Super Bowl in the nfl, let alone 2 in 4 years

[steelreserve]

NEVER made that claim. Just said he didn't suck out loud as badly as many claimed. He certainly wasn't as bad as Walter Abercrombie.


If you couldn't tell I was being a doof, then I must be off my game.

Besides, everyone knows Bettis has been dead for years - I heard it on Meatspin.

[silver & black]

Parker was balls-out the greatest RB in the history of the Steelers, or maybe the world ... *BAM!* the world.

I seem to remember a guy named Bo Jackson. Just sayin'. :wink02:

[Renegade]

No reason to fire tomlin. Steelers went to the superbowl in 2010 season. Arians is around and they go 12-4 in 2011. So what do they do to a great team? They fire the OC (whose doing a bang-up job in ARZ) and bring in Haley who promptly brings the team to the gutters. With the arrival of Haley came more frequent trap games. He is the reason. Keep tomlin. I don't know why haley was hired in the first place.

[fansince'76]

If you couldn't tell I was being a doof, then I must be off my game.

Besides, everyone knows Bettis has been dead for years - I heard it on Meatspin.

Sorry - my sarcasm meter's on the blink today. :chuckle:

[stillers4me]

Did Tomlin turn the ball over 4 times yesterday?

[MrPgh]

No reason to fire tomlin. Steelers went to the superbowl in 2010 season. Arians is around and they go 12-4 in 2011. So what do they do to a great team? They fire the OC (whose doing a bang-up job in ARZ) and bring in Haley who promptly brings the team to the gutters. With the arrival of Haley came more frequent trap games. He is the reason. Keep tomlin. I don't know why haley was hired in the first place.

http://www4.pictures.zimbio.com/gi/Art+Rooney+II+8Pvngm9JPGnm.jpg

[polamalubeast]

No reason to fire tomlin. Steelers went to the superbowl in 2010 season. Arians is around and they go 12-4 in 2011. So what do they do to a great team? They fire the OC (whose doing a bang-up job in ARZ) and bring in Haley who promptly brings the team to the gutters. With the arrival of Haley came more frequent trap games. He is the reason. Keep tomlin. I don't know why haley was hired in the first place.

If the Steelers miss the playoffs this year and next year, the Steelers have no reason to have Tomlin as HC in 2016

His contract ends in 2016, so if the Steelers continue to have the same problems, the Steelers will need a change and I include Colbert.

[Craic]

If you couldn't tell I was being a doof, then I must be off my game.

Besides, everyone knows Bettis has been dead for years - I heard it on Meatspin.

:asskick:


:chuckle:

[zulater]

I'm not one advocating firing Tomlin. But he and his staff did get out x's and o'd by Rex Ryan and his staff. :doh: Rex can't make that claim too often. Not a good thing when you're the only nitwit that managed to get outcoached by Rex. :no:

[Renegade]

http://www4.pictures.zimbio.com/gi/Art+Rooney+II+8Pvngm9JPGnm.jpg
that is not a good reason

[NCSteeler]

Tomlin came in was told to stay out of lebeaus way and won a super bowl, with possibly. One of the best defenses ever Wow.

[steelerdude15]

If the Steelers miss the playoffs this year and next year, the Steelers have no reason to have Tomlin as HC in 2016

His contract ends in 2016, so if the Steelers continue to have the same problems, the Steelers will need a change and I include Colbert.

I think Kevin would be gone before Mike.

[Dwinsgames]

Did Tomlin turn the ball over 4 times yesterday?


no but he signed off on a game plan that not only permitted it to happen but also would show a sign brighter than the brightest of billboards with flashing neon lights saying WTF you thinking to anyone with any football sense to attack the strength of the opponent instead of their weakness ...

so yes in a way he not only turned the ball over 4 times but did so with malice and premeditation

[zulater]

The Steelers wanted to get Bell into the game early, and that's what they did. Bell touched the ball on 11 of the first 19 plays, but on only 10 of the final 42 plays. Bell had 69 total yards.

• The Jets continued a recent trend in how to control Bell — grab him out of the backfield and not let him get into the route. The Jets were called with holding once but had trouble getting free when he wasn't lined up wide as a receiver.


Roethlisberger threw passes behind the line of scrimmage on seven of his first 10 throws, including five in a row.

Read more: http://triblive.com/sports/steelers/7123253-74/roethlisberger-steelers-jets#ixzz3Il5cgfVv
Follow us: @triblive on Twitter | triblive on Facebook

To expand on what Dwins said. This was your early game plan. Force feed the ball to Bell. Which of course plays to the Jets defensive strength. And throw short passes. Again "taking advantage" of the Jets exceptional front 7. :doh:

The Jets did game plan to take away or limit the Steelers downfield passing, playing their corners way off the wr's and keeping their safeties back. ( when not blitzing) Had we recognized what they were doing early and meaningfully adjusted we could have destroyed them on intermediate routes all game. Unlike the Patriots we don't adjust and adapt specific to opponent and particularly on the fly.

Our staff got it's ass handed to them by Rex Ryan. Again think that over, then tell me how it was all about our players lack of execution.

[Dwinsgames]

when you are out coached by coaches with an hour glass sitting beside their soon to be negated contracts , it should tell you something about yourself ... Tomlin refuses to look into that mirror

[stillers4me]

no but he signed off on a game plan that not only permitted it to happen but also would show a sign brighter than the brightest of billboards with flashing neon lights saying WTF you thinking to anyone with any football sense to attack the strength of the opponent instead of their weakness ...

so yes in a way he not only turned the ball over 4 times but did so with malice and premeditation

I'm not disagreeing with you or anybody that is criticizing you any anyone else about the game plan. It was awful. Ben said something about there being no one open to throw to. Now, I'm just a chick so I know next to nothing about a game that I've never played, right? So, we line up for a play and they read it and line up the defense to defend what they are seeing. Must have been pretty obvious. The worst secondary in the league just covered all our receivers to the point where we had no options? And we kept calling running plays against a third string secondary? Because they were working so well? The game plan for the last three games worked so maybe we'll go back and try that other stuff and this time they work better? I guess my little female brain doesn't understand this big, bad macho game enough. :noidea:


:lol:

Neither Tomlin nor Haley turned the ball over. Ball security is a basic fundamental, even in a poorly designed game plan. Period. That's the players job.

Blame goes to everybody in this loss. Coaches and players=big fat goats.

[Dwinsgames]

I'm not disagreeing with you or anybody that is criticizing you any anyone else about the game plan. It was awful. Ben said something about there being no one open to throw to. Now, I'm just a chick so I know next to nothing about a game that I've never played, right? So, we line up for a play and they read it and line up the defense to defend what they are seeing. Must have been pretty obvious. The worst secondary in the league just covered all our receivers to the point where we had no options? And we kept calling running plays against a third string secondary? Because they were working so well? The game plan for the last three games worked so maybe we'll go back and try that other stuff and this time they work better? I guess my little female brain doesn't understand this big, bad macho game enough. :noidea:


:lol:

Neither Tomlin nor Haley turned the ball over. Ball security is a basic fundamental, even in a poorly designed game plan. Period. That's the players job.

Blame goes to everybody in this loss. Coaches and players=big fat goats.

lets skip past the chick not understanding the game as I do not know how well or little you understand the intimate details of the game , nor is it important here really

just 1 example ....

The brown fumble 2 yards past LOS ...

Its not a smart play to throw the football against an aggressive front 7 to the LOS where 300 pound men are throwing their bodies around and you are expecting a 185 pound man to not only make the catch but battle those men to get free ... bad things happen in short order with little men vs big men in small areas ...

Brown could not have been covered down field when he was at the LOS when the pass took place , neither could anyone else in that short order hence it was the play call not a dump off because nobody was open ... result fumble falling forward 2 yards from the point of the catch being made

[Moose]

After playing lights out the past 3 weeks, how can you NOT BE UP for the jets. Supposedly and easy win game to more or less seal the division and you let it crap itself. This team is pathetic. I just can't watch anymore. I don't need this crap. Not entertaining anymore. If THEY aren't wanting to win, why the hell do I need to want them to ? Screw 'em.

[Dwinsgames]

After playing lights out the past 3 weeks, how can you NOT BE UP for the jets. Supposedly and easy win game to more or less seal the division and you let it crap itself. This team is pathetic. I just can't watch anymore. I don't need this crap. Not entertaining anymore. If THEY aren't wanting to win, why the hell do I need to want them to ? Screw 'em.

see ya hear next Sunday right after the game :)

[Moose]

see ya hear next Sunday right after the game :)

LOL, yea, you're probably right. You just never know how they are going to play week to week. The only NFL team that is inconsistent as hell. You would think they would have to make changes sometime, somewhere, to somebody.....please.

[Count Steeler]

Been thinking about the Harrison insertion on first and goal. Has he blinded these coaches to the point where they think he is the second coming? Why oh why was Harrison brought in? Not to block either, but to catch a pass. Whoever came up with this plan needs 40 lashes and if it wasn't Tomlin, he deserves 40 himself for letting this play get called.

Is Harrison going for some kind of record? If he wants a TD, go get a pick 6, other wise, stay off the field on any Offensive plays.

[Dwinsgames]

LOL, yea, you're probably right. You just never know how they are going to play week to week. The only NFL team that is inconsistent as hell.


no not the only one , just the one we pay the most attention to ... look at the Chargers http://www.chargers.com/schedule/index.html pretty inconsistent too

same with the 40whiners http://www.49ers.com/schedule/season-schedule.html

and even the seahawks http://www.seahawks.com/schedule/season-schedule.html

maybe none are the perfect example but all of them have been roller coaster teams with talent levels exceeding their records IMO and all have losses to teams they should have beaten or beaten teams they should probably not have ...

at the end of the day what does this all mean ? probably nothing , at least nothing in terms to how out of sync this steeler unit can be when it comes to playing a lessor team

then there is the NFC south where a record of 3-6 puts you exactly 1 game out of first place

[Craic]

Been thinking about the Harrison insertion on first and goal. Has he blinded these coaches to the point where they think he is the second coming? Why oh why was Harrison brought in? Not to block either, but to catch a pass. Whoever came up with this plan needs 40 lashes and if it wasn't Tomlin, he deserves 40 himself for letting this play get called.

Is Harrison going for some kind of record? If he wants a TD, go get a pick 6, other wise, stay off the field on any Offensive plays.

The only thing I can surmise about that was that a different play was originally called for which it made sense to have Harrison on the field, say, a run to his side where Harrison gets to be a lead blocker (skip the fact we have two great blocking TEs at the moment). Then, because of either the defensive alignment, or the personnel package on the field, the Steelers had to change the play.

It's viable, but not probable. The other possibility is that a couple of our TEs were injured/hurting/not ready and Harrison had to sub for them.

One thing's for sure, James Harrison will NEVER enter the HOF for his work on the offensive side of the ball, either as a long snapper OR as a TE.

[Count Steeler]

The only thing I can surmise about that was that a different play was originally called for which it made sense to have Harrison on the field, say, a run to his side where Harrison gets to be a lead blocker (skip the fact we have two great blocking TEs at the moment). Then, because of either the defensive alignment, or the personnel package on the field, the Steelers had to change the play.

It's viable, but not probable. The other possibility is that a couple of our TEs were injured/hurting/not ready and Harrison had to sub for them.

One thing's for sure, James Harrison will NEVER enter the HOF for his work on the offensive side of the ball, either as a long snapper OR as a TE.

Thing is all 3 TE were on the field as well. Maybe our FB was going wee wee.

[steelreserve]

Can someone please just make this thread a sticky?

[Craic]

Thing is all 3 TE were on the field as well. Maybe our FB was going wee wee.

Huh . . . close.


“James has been practicing at short yardage and goal line fullback for a number of weeks,” Tomlin said. “James is a talented guy, he likes running down the center of people. That’s an asset that can be valuable to us in short yardage and goal line. That scenario and that play or plays where he was in there specifically, obviously didn’t unfold in a positive manner like we intended for it to do.”
http://pittsburgh.cbslocal.com/2014/11/11/mike-tomlin-voices-displeasure-with-safety-mike-mitchell-over-end-of-jets-game/

[86WARD]

Classic Mike Tomlin talk there. Follow up question should've been: were there any plays that unfolded in a positive manner like you intended them to.

[Texasteel]

I do tend to imagine things, but didn't Ben say they hadn't even practiced with Harrison?

[fansince'76]

“James has been practicing at short yardage and goal line fullback for a number of weeks,” Tomlin said. “James is a talented guy, he likes running down the center of people. That’s an asset that can be valuable to us in short yardage and goal line. That scenario and that play or plays where he was in there specifically, obviously didn’t unfold in a positive manner like we intended for it to do.”

http://pittsburgh.cbslocal.com/2014/11/11/mike-tomlin-voices-displeasure-with-safety-mike-mitchell-over-end-of-jets-game/

That page of the playbook needs to be circle-filed just like all the damn screens behind the line of scrimmage.

[NCSteeler]

Hey man we got too many awesome offensive weapons, lets try and do something totally stupid like put a LBer on Offense. You hear Martavius is our redzone guy, Heath is our redzone guy, Blount is our short yardage guy, no no wait it's James, that's right he's the guy

[tube517]

I'm confused with this whole Harrison on offense issue. Wasn't he just supposed to block??? Did he run out to the flat on his own when Ben was scrambling? Or was it designed for him to go into the end zone??

And then everyone claiming he was or wasn't supposed to be out there?

This just reeks of a clusterf***

[Shoes]

:
I'm confused with this whole Harrison on offense issue. Wasn't he just supposed to block??? Did he run out to the flat on his own when Ben was scrambling? Or was it designed for him to go into the end zone??

And then everyone claiming he was or wasn't supposed to be out there?

This just reeks of a clusterf***

if you go to the thread "Ben R: Coaches need to be sharper too" on post #6, Sue has a video clip of the play. Ben doesn't scramble on this play, he drops back then steps up in the pocket and throws the ball to Harrison. Ben doesn't look for another receiver, which is so unlike him. It makes me think he was told to get the ball to James. You can see Matt Spaeth wide open and waving his arms to the left

[Mojouw]

:

if you go to the thread "Ben R: Coaches need to be sharper too" on post #6, Sue has a video clip of the play. Ben doesn't scramble on this play, he drops back then steps up in the pocket and throws the ball to Harrison. Ben doesn't look for another receiver, which is so unlike him. It makes me think he was told to get the ball to James. You can see Matt Spaeth wide open and waving his arms to the left

Did the Joker have his wife and kids locked in a warehouse strapped to a bomb? Ben stared down Heath/Harrison on the play, just like he stared down Bryant on Pick #1 and other receivers at different points in the game.

It is like about 1-2 times per year, Ben has a game where his fundamentals at playing the position just drop off a cliff. He stared down receivers against the Jets and consistently tried to make throws off his back foot without setting up a good base, etc.

[NCSteeler]

When you want to score , you put your best 11 players on the field. Period, this coaching staff is lost

[86WARD]

Too early? Lol...

[hawaiiansteeler]

Too early? Lol...

no, we're losing at halftime in our first game aren't we? :panic:

[tube517]

Too early? Lol...

A little late. Should have been during the "trick" play

[hawaiiansteeler]

A little late. Should have been during the "trick" play

where's the FIRE HALEY thread? :doh2:

[zoneblitzerII]

Worst coached team the league. BAR NONE.

[Craic]

Too early? Lol...

:buttkick: :chuckle:

[Steeldude]

But I thought everything was the fault of the players?

[polamalubeast]

Terrible clock management on mutiples occasion!

[86WARD]

Some terrible, mis-timed play calling. Clock mismanagement. Mental errors. Misuse/not using time outs.

[zoneblitzerII]

This team needs new leadership. Whether that be in coaching, front office or water boy. This team needs new leadership. I am sick and tired of watching the same game over and over and over and over again.

[Steeldude]

Terrible clock management on mutiples occasion!

Standard procedure with Tomlin.

[86WARD]

He was clearly out coached...Patriots knew what they wanted to do, knew how Pittsburgh would react and they took full advantage of it.

[ALLD]

You can't play zone and leave a wide cushion against the Patriots. No game planning. Then a bizarre play call to kill a drive. Who is in charge of STs and what happened during the first 2 FGs with the place holder?

Just unprepared to play on national tv, yet cute enough to look stupid in front of a national audience.

[fansince'76]

He was clearly out coached...

Yet they still saw a need to jack with their radio signals for the entire first half. Fancy that...

[86WARD]

You can't play zone and leave a wide cushion against the Patriots. No game planning. Then a bizarre play call to kill a drive. Who is in charge of STs and what happened during the first 2 FGs with the place holder?

Just unprepared to play on national tv, yet cute enough to look stupid in front of a national audience.

There was some press coverage out there too...but no press...lol. The Pats receivers just ran right around them.

[Mojouw]

Players can't tackle. Players can't execute their assignments. If it improves next week, fine. If not, something will need done. I start with benching a couple of players.

[polamalubeast]

642348871771889664

[polamalubeast]

Mike Tomlin a gameday liability?


There has been a lot of talk about how bad the Steelers defense is, and rightfully so. Their secondary was an absolute mess and a good portion of that blame has to fall onto the players themselves. Yet, not nearly enough criticism is being leveled at Mike Tomlin and his staff. This is a group that had five preseason games to put together a functioning secondary and they utterly failed. Note that I said 'functional.' That means a defense that knew who was supposed to be on the field when, and at least got their assignments mostly correct. They failed at both of those basic tasks despite a defense stripped down to the barebones.

I firmly believe that last night you could have simply switched the two coaching staffs on the sidelines, and the result would have been nearly reversed. Tomlin had his team so ill-prepared for opening night and made some rookie mistakes that are just inexcusable for one of the highest paid coaches in the league.


read more



http://www.footballsfuture.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=569521

[steelreserve]

If we're going to talk about firing Tomlin, that discussion should be about overall preparedness and player development in the long term.

There were a few things I didn't like about last night, but I didn't see anything about the game itself that made me scream "Fire the coach!" The offense looked good - we actually handed it to the Patriots pretty thoroughly there - but had 4 or 5 inopportune fuck-ups. The defense looked crappy but no more than expected.

Don't get me wrong, I am not a big Tomlin supporter by any means, but I think there is more of a long-term pattern to it than what happened in this individual game. Kind of a moot point anyway; after saving face last season - weak schedule or not - there is no way they'll can him for at least 4 more years, even if we really stink the place out.

[Craic]

If we're going to talk about firing Tomlin, that discussion should be about overall preparedness and player development in the long term.

There were a few things I didn't like about last night, but I didn't see anything about the game itself that made me scream "Fire the coach!" The offense looked good - we actually handed it to the Patriots pretty thoroughly there - but had 4 or 5 inopportune fuck-ups. The defense looked crappy but no more than expected.

This.

I swear, the knee-jerk reactions after the first loss of the season. Let's get a little perspective, shall we?

Let's see . . . We went into the stadium of the Super Bowl Champions who are returning most of their starters, without our: (1)starting RB, (2) probably our #2 WR, Center, (3) 2nd round CB who looked to replace our Shutdown CB, (4) a brand new Defensive Coordinator (and if you think there's little difference being a LB coach and an OC during a game, you're vastly mistaking), (5) and young and/or Steeler-experienced DBs. Yet, we lost by 7 points. And don't give me the "Garbage time" argument. Had Scoby hit those field goals, that TD, with a two point conversion, ties the game.

Are there problems? Absolutely. I noticed questionable play-calling, bad communication, etc. But much of what I noticed, on defense, especially, will disappear as our DC gets used to the position and our players settle in and begin working together.

It's a long season, people, and we just lost by one TD to the Superbowl champions. Seriously, let's get a grip.

[zulater]

I wont call for Tomlin's firing. First off what good would it do? But as long as Bellichick is in New England we'll always be at a disadvantage in the coaching department to that rival. If it's even close to even talent wise they're going to win every important game. But hey we're already used to that. So what the hell. In my best Kevin Bacon..."Thank you sir! Give me another".

[Mojouw]

The original poster (over on football future) must have been watching a different game, because most of his points are simply not true or such armchair GM nonsense.

For instance he condemns Pittsburgh's secondary for their poor performance and rejects inexperience as an explanation. And then cites the Pats secondary as a counter example. Ummm....they got shredded too last night. I don't think anyone is going to be running the film of the Pats DBs last night and looking for tips.

Garvin is their short yardage coverage LB. Always has been. Seemingly always will. Far from the slowest LB - that would have to be Williams.

The whole post has a massive correlation/causation problem. Some of the problems identified are true, but their sources and solutions are not correct.

The Steelers got beat last night because their safeties are terrible. Not much more complicated than that. Without a good safety tandem, Brady and Gronk will eat you alive over the middle and then Edleman and Amendola kill you underneath as you desperately cheat towards the middle.

[ALLD]

Mike Mitchell looked he was running around like a chicken with its head cut off.

[86WARD]

The original poster (over on football future) must have been watching a different game, because most of his points are simply not true or such armchair GM nonsense.

For instance he condemns Pittsburgh's secondary for their poor performance and rejects inexperience as an explanation. And then cites the Pats secondary as a counter example. Ummm....they got shredded too last night. I don't think anyone is going to be running the film of the Pats DBs last night and looking for tips.

Garvin is their short yardage coverage LB. Always has been. Seemingly always will. Far from the slowest LB - that would have to be Williams.

The whole post has a massive correlation/causation problem. Some of the problems identified are true, but their sources and solutions are not correct.

The Steelers got beat last night because their safeties are terrible. Not much more complicated than that. Without a good safety tandem, Brady and Gronk will eat you alive over the middle and then Edleman and Amendola kill you underneath as you desperately cheat towards the middle.

They can't match Garvin up with Gronkowski. It's a mismatch that Garvin will lose every time and the Patriots knew that and they knew it, most likely, from the Chandler TD earlier in the game. Basically the Pats split those guys out, knew exactly what the coverage would be and exploited it...perfect set up and execution by New England's coaching staff. Moral is...you can't stick Garvin out on an island and expect him to cover.

[ALLD]

Put 5'9" Senquez Golson on Gronk and pray he can jump.

[polamalubeast]

The biggest problem with Tomlin vs pats was the clock management at the end of the first half.....It was just awful.....

[Mojouw]

They can't match Garvin up with Gronkowski. It's a mismatch that Garvin will lose every time and the Patriots knew that and they knew it, most likely, from the Chandler TD earlier in the game. Basically the Pats split those guys out, knew exactly what the coverage would be and exploited it...perfect set up and execution by New England's coaching staff. Moral is...you can't stick Garvin out on an island and expect him to cover.

Never said it was a good idea. Was simply pointing out that Garvin coming in sub packages as a coverage LB is not a new thing.

[86WARD]

Never said it was a good idea. Was simply pointing out that Garvin coming in sub packages as a coverage LB is not a new thing.

I'm not trying to say you did say that. I'm just saying from a coaching perspective, they have to realize that it's not a good idea. They have to be prepared for something like that. Move some one who can play run and coverage...

[Cyphon25]

Let's get a little perspective, shall we?

Let's see . . . We went into the stadium of the Super Bowl Champions who are returning most of their starters, without our: (1)starting RB, (2) probably our #2 WR, Center, (3) 2nd round CB who looked to replace our Shutdown CB, (4) a brand new Defensive Coordinator (and if you think there's little difference being a LB coach and an OC during a game, you're vastly mistaking), (5) and young and/or Steeler-experienced DBs.

Patriots had new starting corners, 3 rookie offensive linemen, were missing their starting center and starting RB, benched their starting LT during the game and actually shuffled their line around during the game as well. So this isn't exactly a great argument to make about perspective.

A little more on the direct topic of Tomlin:

I have never thought he was that good of a coach. He is a mediocre that came into a great situation and because of the success of the situation a lot is forgiven. That being said, it isn't as if this league is full of great coaches so there is no point in calling for his head too loudly. Last night was a great example of why he is not that great of a coach. The team seemed completely unprepared on defense, there were bad personnel choices, terrible clock management and basically more of the same we have seen on a consistent basis with Tomlin at the helm.

Let's not even talk about how Landry Jones and Dri Archer continuing sticking with this team despite being 2 of the most useless guys in the NFL. Or how he is a former DB coach who doesn't seem to know the first think about DB's and judging their talent.

Steelers organization has a tried and true method so it is only fair to give Tomlin time. The same thing that gave him an edge as a coach (coming into a great roster and situation) is also a thing that may have hampered him as a coach. Having those great players too long kept him from developing guys he may have wanted to develop sooner.

[Craic]

Actually, I think our biggest problem with Gronk last night was our lack of experienced and trustworthy depth at Linebacker. I'd have loved to see an experienced Dupree (6'4, 269, 4.56 40 with a 42 inch vertical), say, with 3-4 years under his belt, be assigned to Gronk all night. Get up in his face, hit him off the line, bump him down the routes, etc.

But right now, we just don't have that. The only one I'd half way trust is Timmons, and that'd absolutely kill us at the moment.

[Craic]

Patriots had new starting corners, 3 rookie offensive linemen, were missing their starting center and starting RB, benched their starting LT during the game and actually shuffled their line around during the game as well. So this isn't exactly a great argument to make about perspective.
Um, it's exactly the argument to make, or do you forget that outside of two missed fieldgoals, the teams put up almost the exact same points. Think about that. Moreover, the fieldgoal problem was identified in the game and corrected (new holder came in, no more missed field goals).

Moreover, I could care less about what the Pats* had. My point was the with everything different on this team, they were still within 7 points of tying/beating the SB champions. Considering your post, that means they came in facing similar issues, and again, were almost equal except for those two missed fieldgoals.

Yes, it's called perspective. Especially for the first game of the season.

[Cyphon25]

Um, it's exactly the argument to make, or do you forget that outside of two missed fieldgoals, the teams put up almost the exact same points. Think about that. Moreover, the fieldgoal problem was identified in the game and corrected (new holder came in, no more missed field goals).

Moreover, I could care less about what the Pats* had. My point was the with everything different on this team, they were still within 7 points of tying/beating the SB champions. Considering your post, that means they came in facing similar issues, and again, were almost equal except for those two missed fieldgoals.

Yes, it's called perspective. Especially for the first game of the season.

The bold is your problem. With proper perspective you realize they aren't really the SB champs. Obviously from a literal standpoint they are, but taking it in perspective you see that they had almost the same disadvantages we did. And when you look at it like that you realize our all-stars like Harrison, Timmons and Heyward couldn't take advantage of 3 rookie offensive linemen to have any impact on the game. Our defense was getting gashed by a 2nd or 3rd string RB on top of looking completely lost out there.

Sure, we still could have won the game despite everything, but it would have been beating a mediocre team starting a bunch of rookies and new players. It goes back to the same old story under Tomlin. We can never get up and play good ball to beat the teams we should be beating. Abysmal coaching, untimely turnovers, terrible clock management and personnel decisions killed us in a game we could have won.

[TD's & Beer]

Are all y'all high?

They just signed Mikey to a new contract - he's got the Rooney's in his hip pocket and ain't goin' nowhere.


Mike Tomlin, Steelers agree on contract extension

NFL Media Insider Ian Rapoport reported the new deal will place Tomlin (https://twitter.com/RapSheet/status/624267251731025922) among the three-to-five highest paid coaches in the NFL and also all of sports, meaning more than $7 million per year.

[Craic]

The bold is your problem. With proper perspective you realize they aren't really the SB champs. Obviously from a literal standpoint they are, but taking it in perspective you see that they had almost the same disadvantages we did. And when you look at it like that you realize our all-stars like Harrison, Timmons and Heyward couldn't take advantage of 3 rookie offensive linemen to have any impact on the game. Our defense was getting gashed by a 2nd or 3rd string RB on top of looking completely lost out there.

Sure, we still could have won the game despite everything, but it would have been beating a mediocre team starting a bunch of rookies and new players. It goes back to the same old story under Tomlin. We can never get up and play good ball to beat the teams we should be beating. Abysmal coaching, untimely turnovers, terrible clock management and personnel decisions killed us in a game we could have won.

And so, with that last paragraph, you completely discount all the players the Steelers lost. Look, this is the first game of the season. You can choose to go negative and complain all season long. I, personally, would rather enjoy the season. Glass half empty, half full. I prefer to see it half full.

[ALLD]

Don't think because we only lost by 7 points that the defense is good. The last TD was in garbage time and the Pats stopped passing with almost 10 minutes left in the 4th quarter. Delusion about the quality of our coaches and our defense can be detrimental to our playoff hopes.

[fansince'76]

Don't think because we only lost by 7 points that the defense is good. The last TD was in garbage time and the Pats stopped passing with almost 10 minutes left in the 4th quarter. Delusion about the quality of our coaches and our defense can be detrimental to our playoff hopes.

I don't think anyone is under any delusion that the defense is any good. I also think it's fair to say that the bolded part above was at least partly a function of their defense not really stopping our offense all night either. And since when does fan opinion, good or bad, directly affect the fortunes of a team?

[katmandu]

Yet, not nearly enough criticism is being leveled at Mike Tomlin and his staff. This is a group that had five preseason games to put together a functioning secondary and they utterly failed. Note that I said 'functional.' That means a defense that knew who was supposed to be on the field when, and at least got their assignments mostly correct. They failed at both of those basic tasks despite a defense stripped down to the barebones. I questioned several times as to why the starters did not get more playing time during the pre-season.

All I heard, was..."It's just the Pre-season. Don't worry about it. Stop over-reacting. blah, blah, blah....

Thursday's debacle clearly demonstrates that this Defense needs much more time playing together to become a cohesive, coordinated unit. They way the looked out there makes me think it will not happen for a very, very long time.

So yea, if I'm the head coach with a bunch of inexperienced new starters, they're playing a hell of a lot during pre-season.

[Craic]

I questioned several times as to why the starters did not get more playing time during the pre-season.

All I heard, was..."It's just the Pre-season. Don't worry about it. Stop over-reacting. blah, blah, blah....

Thursday's debacle clearly demonstrates that this Defense needs much more time playing together to become a cohesive, coordinated unit. They way the looked out there makes me think it will not happen for a very, very long time.

So yea, if I'm the head coach with a bunch of inexperienced new starters, they're playing a hell of a lot during pre-season.

I have to wonder if Tomlin's first year as head coach has something to do with it, especially with five games in the preseason. Remember that first year he ran the team into the ground, and they just didn't have anything left in the tank come January. It looks to me like he's adopted the Bill Cowher approach: better 3 and 3 in the first six, than 0-3 in the last three. Remember, Cowher's teams sucked in the first six games of each season, usually. I started rooting for a break-even first third, and knew if we got that, we'd be pretty good in the last two-thirds. I apply the same to Tomlin's teams, so I don't start worrying until game four, at least.

[Mojouw]

Is no one remembering that the Pats play faster than any team except the Eagles in the entire league? Are we not going to mention that their numerous substitution packages are more than most other teams?

Are we not going to mention that many teams aside from the Steelers turn in to the Keystone Kops when faced with the Patriots amorphous and anomalous offensive system?

Look, plenty of stuff went wrong that can be laid directly at the feet of the coaching staff, but we need to remember that the Pats (cheating and all) are a talented football team that runs a fairly odd system that makes many teams look foolish each season.

All that being said, Fire 'em all.

[zulater]

No one in their right mind is saying Tomlin is terrible. But if you had to rank Tomlin among his peers is he top 10? If not then ask yourself why the Steelers, a team that is considered among the league's best franchises is settling?

Now if you think he is top ten ( personally I teeter right on that line) then you shouldn't see much issue here. But on the bad weeks sometimes I teeter right over to the mediocre side of 10 and drop him down around 15. And when my mind wanders there I ask myself why the hell do the Steelers settle on a mediocre coach?

So I don't necessarily think it's a ridiculous premise when people call for his job after a particularly poorly coached game, such as this last one.

[hawaiiansteeler]

I don't necessarily think it's a ridiculous premise when people call for his job after a particularly poorly coached game, such as this last one.

you don't think it's a ridiculous premise considering the fact that we just extended Tomlin's contract through the 2018 season?

[Shoes]

Mike Mitchell looked he was running around like a chicken with its head cut off.

So was his twin, Cortez Allen.

[zulater]

you don't think it's a ridiculous premise considering the fact that we just extended Tomlin's contract through the 2018 season?

Yes and no.

On the level of it actually being in the realm of possibility, knowing he's won a SB, been to two SB's, never has had a losing season, is loved by the Rooney's, is a perfect example of the "Rooney rule" in action, and finally is part of the legacy of the Steelers stability at the top. You just know the Steelers want Mike to at least get to 2018 so they can say 3 coaches in 50 years. Then hell no.

But on the level of semi- rationale fan wondering is this guy an elite coach, and if not so, then why is this organization settling? Then yes.

If you don't understand the rationale of what I'm saying it could be because you're 6 Sam Adams behind me. :heh:

[86WARD]

I would say that Tomlin lands between 10-12 on the ranking of NFL head coaches. There are definitely times where I feel he falls down to the 16-20 stages...times when the team just looks unprepared, confused, lacking discipline, lacking awareness...basic things that a team at the NFL level should have. Sure it's gonna happen every once in a while and I'd be fine with that, but when it happens on a consistent basis, it becomes a problem in my book.

[Cyphon25]

There are 2 things that definitely keep Tomlin surfing higher than he ideally would be ranked.

1. Past success. He came into one helluva a roster and managed them well. However much credit you want to give him for that, he seems much better at dealing with already prepared talent than he does at handling new talent.

2. There just flat out aren't a bunch of great coaches in the league. That is why there is so much turnover. So much of the NFL is matching up the right relationships and the right timing of events. So even if you don't like Tomlin how easy would it be to find better? Hard to say really.

[86WARD]

Tomlin, for some reason, has a thing against "admitting mistakes" in personnel. Blake being on Edelman all game was a joke. Not only because Blake was schooled all game, but they put Blake into a position in which he never played and they left Boykin, who they gave up a 5th Round draft pick for, on the bench...the kicker being that this would be a spot in which Boykin would excel...as he has proven so in the past...I'm not sure what Tomlin is thinking there...

[teegre]

I'm not being argumentative; I honestly want to know:

Which 10 coaches would all of you take over Mike Tomlin?

[fansince'76]

If I had my druthers, we'd be coached by Chuck Noll, circa 1975. But he's no longer out there.


I'm not being argumentative; I honestly want to know:

Which 10 coaches would all of you take over Mike Tomlin?

A good question. And before anybody says "Jim Harbaugh," please take a look at the dumpster fire he left behind in Frisco.

[Cyphon25]

I'm not being argumentative; I honestly want to know:

Which 10 coaches would all of you take over Mike Tomlin?

Not an answer to your question but a good starting point for people to get an idea.

http://www.nfl.com/photoessays/0ap3000000499554

They have Tomlin at number 6 and I think I agree with everyone ahead of him. Haven't considered those behind him.

[hawaiiansteeler]

Tomlin, for some reason, has a thing against "admitting mistakes" in personnel. Blake being on Edelman all game was a joke. Not only because Blake was schooled all game, but they put Blake into a position in which he never played and they left Boykin, who they gave up a 5th Round draft pick for, on the bench...the kicker being that this would be a spot in which Boykin would excel...as he has proven so in the past...I'm not sure what Tomlin is thinking there...

I agree...

perhaps Boykin didn't play because he still hasn't learned the nuances of our defense yet but how hard would it have been for him to just follow Edelman around?

[Steeldude]

I agree...

perhaps Boykin didn't play because he still hasn't learned the nuances of our defense yet but how hard would it have been for him to just follow Edelman around?

Then he should fit right in. Haha.

[Steeldude]

Perhaps Tomlin should come up with a solid lineup. No one looks like they play with any fire. It looks like they are coasting, for the most part. I won't even mention the confusion on defense.

What did Moats do? Can Jarvis Jones play the left side with Harrison on the right? I am just throwing things out there as a fan : ) I think Boykins needs some playing time.

You have to hand it to the Patriots. They started 3 rookies on the O-line and looked rather solid. I attribute that to coaching. Love him or hate him, Belichick does get results from each player on the roster. He makes sure each player understands what he needs to do.

[hawaiiansteeler]

What did Moats do?

not much, Dupree played a lot more snaps at LOLB than Moats did...

[Rotorhead]

Dupree played fine until he had to cover, would rather have Moats and JJ on though, with Harrison and Dupree in on obvious passing downs (3rd and long if we could ever get there). Should have had Shazier shadowing Gronk all game. If he split out wide bring a S up in the box for run support. Boykins should have been on Edelman all game. Why can I come up with a game plan better than our coaches?

[NCSteeler]

Boykins, hell. Gay should have been on Eddelman the whole game, he's possibly the best slot corner in the league and just average outside. Besides who was he shutting down on the outside?

[steelreserve]

I'm not being argumentative; I honestly want to know:

Which 10 coaches would all of you take over Mike Tomlin?


A good question. And before anybody says "Jim Harbaugh," please take a look at the dumpster fire he left behind in Frisco.


Cowher? :behindsofa:


No, seriously, just knock him over the head and drag him to Mexico once every 15 years while we draft a quarterback and it should be fine.


I would've said Harbaugh also. The dude made Kaepernick look good. And two-thirds of the dumpster fire was the rats jumping off the ship AFTER he left. Figure the guy lasts 4-5 years before he pisses too many people off, and in the meantime gets you a shot at the championship of whatever league you're in. Our window is 4-5 years right now. Sounds good to me.

[zulater]

I'm not being argumentative; I honestly want to know:

Which 10 coaches would all of you take over Mike Tomlin?



In no particular order, and in some cases I wouldn't take them because I can't stand them. but strictly from the standpoint of who out there I think is a better head coach than Tomlin, start with Bellichick, John Harbaugh, Bruce Arians, Pete Carroll, and Jeff Fisher. Those 5 to me are clearly ahead of Tomlin. And don't give me Super Bowl wins blah blah blah, because if you're not in the best circumstance you're not going to always win. Fisher is sharp as hell and is building a team up from the scrap heap. Same thing he did in Tennessee.

Now after that there's no one clearly ahead of Tomlin. But some of the young coaches like Kelly, O Brian, and Bowles while unproven show me more capacity to improve a situation than Tomlin has done. So there's 8.

I'd put Andy Reid, Mike McCarthey, and Sean Payton on even ground with Tomlin. Can't say they're better, wont concede they're worse.

So that puts as at 11.

But here's the thing. Is it unreasonable for fans to expect or at least want a clear cut elite coach? Isn't the job of Steelers head coach worthy of the best available?


But we got Tomlin for a myriad of reasons. He's not bad. But is he good enough to maximize your chances in your closing window of having a franchise qb?

[teegre]

A good question. And before anybody says "Jim Harbaugh," please take a look at the dumpster fire he left behind in Frisco.

That's Harbaugh's MO. Get in, succeed at ANY cost, and leave right before the repercussions come a-calling.

- - - Updated - - -


Not an answer to your question but a good starting point for people to get an idea.

http://www.nfl.com/photoessays/0ap3000000499554

They have Tomlin at number 6 and I think I agree with everyone ahead of him. Haven't considered those behind him.

Thank you.

As as far as Belichick goes, he's like OJ Simpson to me. OJ is the third-best RB to ever play... but, I wouldn't want him as my RB.

[fansince'76]

OJ is the third-best RB to ever play... but, I wouldn't want him as my RB.

Off topic for just a sec here - Jim Brown being obvious, but who is the other RB you have above him? Payton or Sanders? Payton would be my choice, personally. Just curious.

[teegre]

Cowher? :behindsofa:


No, seriously, just knock him over the head and drag him to Mexico once every 15 years while we draft a quarterback and it should be fine.


I would've said Harbaugh also. The dude made Kaepernick look good. And two-thirds of the dumpster fire was the rats jumping off the ship AFTER he left. Figure the guy lasts 4-5 years before he pisses too many people off, and in the meantime gets you a shot at the championship of whatever league you're in. Our window is 4-5 years right now. Sounds good to me.

Re:Cowher
Prople were calling for his head in 98-00. Like bad. This little rough patch is nothing compared to those three years.

Re: Harbaugh
I hear your point, but that's the thing: Harbaugh will get you "close", but like Cowher, he always seems to fall just a little short. I expect him to go 10-1 at Michigan, and lose one title game... and then leave... and a year later, Michigan will be under investigation for paying players.

- - - Updated - - -


Off topic for just a sec here - Jim Brown being obvious, but who is the other RB you have above him? Payton or Sanders? Payton would be my choice, personally. Just curious.

Sanders.

Sweetness is fourth. I give OJ a slight nod, but not by much.

[fansince'76]

Sanders.

Sweetness is fourth. I give OJ a slight nod, but not by much.

Can't go wrong either way. Log-jam at the top, but after you get past 4, it drops way off, IMO. E. Smith was the product of probably the best OL in league history.

[teegre]

In no particular order, and in some cases I wouldn't take them because I can't stand them. but strictly from the standpoint of who out there I think is a better head coach than Tomlin, start with Bellichick, John Harbaugh, Bruce Arians, Pete Carroll, and Jeff Fisher. Those 5 to me are clearly ahead of Tomlin. And don't give me Super Bowl wins blah blah blah, because if you're not in the best circumstance you're not going to always win. Fisher is sharp as hell and is building a team up from the scrap heap. Same thing he did in Tennessee.

Now after that there's no one clearly ahead of Tomlin. But some of the young coaches like Kelly, O Brian, and Bowles while unproven show me more capacity to improve a situation than Tomlin has done. So there's 8.

I'd put Andy Reid, Mike McCarthey, and Sean Payton on even ground with Tomlin. Can't say they're better, wont concede they're worse.

So that puts as at 11.

But here's the thing. Is it unreasonable for fans to expect or at least want a clear cut elite coach? Isn't the job of Steelers head coach worthy of the best available?


But we got Tomlin for a myriad of reasons. He's not bad. But is he good enough to maximize your chances in your closing window of having a franchise qb?

Thank you.

I'll just address the top five. I see your rationale, and here are my thoughts...

Arians: The guy "Lucked" into those wins in Indy (see what I did there)

Carroll: He's great. Living in SoCal, he's a hero... on & off the field. Did he cheat at USC? Yes. Oh well.

Belichick: I wouldn't let Michael Jackson watch my kids. (Make sense?)

Fisher: Love him.

John Harbaugh: Up until two years ago, he couldn't beat Tomlin head-to-head. Currently, yes, he's ahead of Tomlin, but Tomlin was to Harbaugh what Belichick has been to Tomlin/Cowher. Plus, the whining!!!

- - - Updated - - -


E. Smith was the product of probably the best OL in league history.

Amen!!!

[Mojouw]

If you are in the group that is driven nuts by bad clock management then you would love Andy Reid. Makes Tomlin look like a precision instrument. So Carrol gets listed higher. Can you imagine this place if Tomlin/Haley called that slant in the SB?

jeff fisher is the most overrated coach in the nfl.

[zulater]

If you are in the group that is driven nuts by bad clock management then you would love Andy Reid. Makes Tomlin look like a precision instrument. So Carrol gets listed higher. Can you imagine this place if Tomlin/Haley called that slant in the SB?

jeff fisher is the most overrated coach in the nfl.

I could easily say the same thing about Tomlin.


Look we can find chinks in the armor on just about everyone. Hell even Chuck Noll has his detractors. Bottom line is save an unimaginable scandal or tragedy Tomlin will be coaching this team at least through 2018. It's very important to the Rooney's and their legacy to get to that 3 coaches in 50 years milestone.

But knowing that doesn't mean we as fans can't vent when we witness particularly egregious breakdowns in team discipline, structure, and execution. Sometimes our voices are actually heard, and while we'll never get Tomlin fired ( I don't think most of us even want to) we can at least possibly garner some accountability and effect some form of redress. .

[BigNastyDefense]

Is Tomlin the greatest coach to ever grace a football field? No.

But we could also be stuck with the likes of what teams like the Raiders and Browns have had.

And to all those that call for Tomlin to be fired, tell me who you would hire at season's end. And be serious. I don't want to hear anyone say Bellichick, Arians, Carroll, or Fisher. Guys under contract that aren't likely to be fired won't be a head coach on another team next year. So seriously, if any of you honestly want Mike Tomlin fired at the end of this season, who realistically do you think could come in and take the Steelers to the Super Bowl next season (assuming we don't end up there this season). A head coach just fired because he couldn't win? A completely unproven coordinator? Give me names.

Did the Steelers defense look bad on Thursday night? Yeah. And with Brady playing, anyone who expected this defense to look 2010 good needs to stop eating magic mushrooms. Yeah, I think they should have put Shazier on Gronk, the result couldn't have been any worse. For whatever reasons, they felt that wasn't going to work. I don't know why they didn't play Boykin more, but from the little he was on the field I didn't see him do anything eye popping great.

I don't think the Patriots offensive line played great as much as Brady got the ball out of his hand literally just in time a lot. It doesn't help that our secondary is a hot mess, so they didn't force Brady to hold onto the ball. Also, a lot of their passes were shorter which I think was their game plan knowing they had an inexperienced offensive line.

Unless the appeal lands Brady suspended at the end of the season and the Pats are fighting for a playoff spot in the last four games or Brady gets hurt, the Patriots will likely win their division and have a bye during wild card weekend. Between headsets not working and not having Bell and Bryant to help create mismatches on the defense, the Steelers weren't going to score 21 points and walk out of New England with a win. Hopefully they fix the problems, let Boykin play more in the home opener, and kick the 49ers ass all over Heinz Field. If we have problems with San Francisco after the mass exodus there in the offseason, then I will worry about the (assistant) coaching.

[zulater]

Just in response to who could the Steelers hire? Who knows? Which of us knew anything about Bill Cowher when he was hired? Same for Tomlin. John Harbaugh was nothing more than a special teams coach when he was hired. Maybe there's another Pete Carroll or Chip Kelly among the college ranks waiting to graduate to the NFL ranks. Just because we can't indentify a sure fire upgrade doesn't mean several don't exist and couldn't be uncovered in a head coaching search.

[Cyphon25]

That is why I don't even get directly into firing Tomlin because I don't follow a ton of coaches enough to know every little flaw in their game. The thing with Tomlin is that there just seems to be so many glaring ones that I have to imagine there could be a lot of possibilities out there to do a better job. It isn't like we are saying Tomlin sucks because he keeps letting Bell run to the right instead of left or because the offense runs 60% pass to 40% run or whatever. These are major egregious errors that make no sense on any level of thinking.

Garvin covering Gronk and nobody notices and thinks to call a timeout. Dri Archer still even being on the team. The lack of preparedness on defense. The constant misses on DB's despite being a former DB coach. Makes you wonder how he kept moving up the ranks when he doesn't even seem to excel at his own specialty. Clock management. There are a lot of things you can point to as pretty big flaws in his coaching.

[BigNastyDefense]

Just in response to who could the Steelers hire? Who knows? Which of us knew anything about Bill Cowher when he was hired? Same for Tomlin. John Harbaugh was nothing more than a special teams coach when he was hired. Maybe there's another Pete Carroll or Chip Kelly among the college ranks waiting to graduate to the NFL ranks. Just because we can't indentify a sure fire upgrade doesn't mean several don't exist and couldn't be uncovered in a head coaching search.

Or they could fire Tomlin, hire someone, and end up with a guy that works out as well as Rob Chudzinski did for the Browns.

There's a reason that the Steelers have had three head coaches since 1969 and in that time have won six Super Bowls. They don't go changing everything just because of a bad season or a bad game.

They could have fired Cowher between 1998-2000 or after the 2003 season, and if they did either the Steelers might still be at four Super Bowl wins.

What will it take for Art II to fire a head coach? Nobody knows because the Rooneys haven't done that since 1968. But if we fired a head coach after every bad season or bad game, then we would be the Cleveland Browns.

[zulater]

Or they could fire Tomlin, hire someone, and end up with a guy that works out as well as Rob Chudzinski did for the Browns.

There's a reason that the Steelers have had three head coaches since 1969 and in that time have won six Super Bowls. They don't go changing everything just because of a bad season or a bad game.

They could have fired Cowher between 1998-2000 or after the 2003 season, and if they did either the Steelers might still be at four Super Bowl wins.

What will it take for Art II to fire a head coach? Nobody knows because the Rooneys haven't done that since 1968. But if we fired a head coach after every bad season or bad game, then we would be the Cleveland Browns.

I think the argument to fire Tomlin has long since been conceded. I'm just sticking up for the fans right to vent. When questionable calls are made, when curious personel moves are made, when repeated clock mismanagement is on obvious display we have a right to bitch.

[86WARD]

Or they could fire Tomlin, hire someone, and end up with a guy that works out as well as Rob Chudzinski did for the Browns.

There's a reason that the Steelers have had three head coaches since 1969 and in that time have won six Super Bowls. They don't go changing everything just because of a bad season or a bad game.

They could have fired Cowher between 1998-2000 or after the 2003 season, and if they did either the Steelers might still be at four Super Bowl wins.

What will it take for Art II to fire a head coach? Nobody knows because the Rooneys haven't done that since 1968. But if we fired a head coach after every bad season or bad game, then we would be the Cleveland Browns.

Or they could hire Chudzinski and he could wind up being the next Bill Belichick...moral...using the Browns is a poor example...:)

[Mojouw]

Of course fans have the right to complain. But many of the complaints are not grounded in reality. How can you complain about the Steelers coaching if you don't watch other NFL teams? You have no context for a basis of comparison. There are 31 other coaching staffs and front offic s out there. That is the comparison group, not some imaginary idealized standard. The Colts got beat by the Bills. The Rams look to upset the Seahawks. Those are two early SB favorites. Got beat on the road in the opener. By the standards set around here, there should be some job openings in Indy and Seattle tomorrow.

[polamalubeast]

Pete Carroll make the last 2 super bowl and Chuck Pagnano is on the hot seat this year.....

[teegre]

So Carrol gets listed higher. Can you imagine this place if Tomlin/Haley called that slant in the SB?

In that same vein, people would crucify Carroll for being too "buddy buddy" with his players.

Using a "players' coach" analogy, if Tomlin is the Atlantic, then Carroll is the Pacific.

[fansince'76]

In that same vein, people would crucify Carroll for being too "buddy buddy" with his players.

Using a "players' coach" analogy, if Tomlin is the Atlantic, then Carroll is the Pacific.

Does Carroll have a 1,000-yard stare, though? :chuckle:

[hawaiiansteeler]

Of course fans have the right to complain. But many of the complaints are not grounded in reality. How can you complain about the Steelers coaching if you don't watch other NFL teams? You have no context for a basis of comparison. There are 31 other coaching staffs and front offic s out there. That is the comparison group, not some imaginary idealized standard. The Colts got beat by the Bills. The Rams look to upset the Seahawks. Those are two early SB favorites. Got beat on the road in the opener. By the standards set around here, there should be some job openings in Indy and Seattle tomorrow.

did you see that onside kick attempt by Seattle in OT today versus the Rams?

[tube517]

Does Carroll have a 1,000-yard stare, though? :chuckle:

he's got Pacific Cool Shades

http://www.nwsportsbeat.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/Pete-Carroll-Seahawks-Coach.jpg

[Mojouw]

did you see that onside kick attempt by Seattle in OT today versus the Rams?

Was that the one where the kicker forgot to bounce it off the ground, so it got ruled a fair catch or something? Walked in from working in the garage right when that call was getting explained. Hopefully can see it again tonight.

[Cyphon25]

Was that the one where the kicker forgot to bounce it off the ground, so it got ruled a fair catch or something? Walked in from working in the garage right when that call was getting explained. Hopefully can see it again tonight.

Refs initially thought it bounced off the ground so they call an illegal fair catch on the Rams which would have resulted in a re-kick. After talking it over they realized it was kicked into the air and not off of the ground so the fair catch was legit and Rams won.

No real controversy there. They got it right.

[Mojouw]

Refs initially thought it bounced off the ground so they call an illegal fair catch on the Rams which would have resulted in a re-kick. After talking it over they realized it was kicked into the air and not off of the ground so the fair catch was legit and Rams won.

No real controversy there. They got it right.

Thanks! I guess all I have left to ask, is where the players prepared? So I guess Carroll failed to prepare his kicker to do his job? :)

[Cyphon25]

Thanks! I guess all I have left to ask, is where the players prepared? So I guess Carroll failed to prepare his kicker to do his job? :)

I know the Rams didn't seem caught off guard. The guy who recovered really attacked the ball and got to it quick. No chance for the Hawks.

[SteelerFanInStl]

Was that the one where the kicker forgot to bounce it off the ground, so it got ruled a fair catch or something? Walked in from working in the garage right when that call was getting explained. Hopefully can see it again tonight.
Yes, the officials initially called a penalty for an invalid fair catch against the Rams. Then they got together to discuss it and said no penalty because the ball wasn't kicked off of the turf, which was correct.

What I'd like to know is why there wasn't a penalty called on the Seahawks for piling on the Rams player who caught the ball and had signaled for a fair catch. You're not allowed to hit a player who has signalled for a fair catch but they had at least 3 guys hit him.

[ALLD]

Bring back Cowher, he was a better coach.

[polamalubeast]

Bring back Cowher, he was a better coach.

and Bring back Dick Lebeau too!!!!!!

[hawaiiansteeler]

Bring back Cowher, he was a better coach.

yeah, if only Tomlin could win one Super Bowl in his first 15 years as the Steelers head coach.

oh wait...:wink02:

[86WARD]

The irony of that Seattle game was they gave he ball to Lynch on short yardage and he couldn't get it done...lol.

[fansince'76]

Bring back Cowher, he was a better coach.

Yeah, maybe we can wait another 14 years to win a SB while we beat our heads against the wall with one scrub under center after another because the HC insists he doesn't need a QB...

[86WARD]

Kind of like Rex Ryan...