FIRE MIKE TOMLIN!!

[lipps83]

681932207196364801

He must be including 8-8 teams. Below .500 results are different. Below .500 Tomlin has 20 losses, Cowher 19. I don't vouch for the accuracy, this was a bitch to put together but it should be fairly accurate. This was put together based on final standings.

11 of Cowher's losses were to division rivals. 6 of Tomlin's losses were to division rivals.

For non-division, Cowher performed poorly against the Seahawks with two losses. Tomlin performed poorly against the Raiders with three losses. Division rivals in bold.

Tomlin.

2007. 3 teams. Broncos (7-9). Jets (4-12). Ravens (5-11).
2008. None.
2009. 4 teams. Bears (7-9). Chiefs (4-12). Raiders (5-11). Browns (5-11).
2010. None.
2011. None.
2012. 4 teams. Raiders (4-12). Titans (6-10). Browns (5-11). Chargers (7-9).
2013. 3 teams. Titans (7-9). Vikings (5-10-1). Raiders (4-12).
2014. 4 teams. Buccaneers (2-14). Browns (7-9). Jets (4-12). Saints (7-9).
2015. 1 team. Ravens x2 (6-10 at best).

7-9 = 6
6-10 = 3 (including Ravens)
5-11 = 5 (including Vikings with tie)
4-12 = 5
3-13 = 0
2-14 = 1

Cowher

1992. 2 teams. Browns (7-9). Bears (5-11).
1993. 3 teams. Rams (5-11). Browns (7-9). Seahawks (6-10).
1994. 1 team. Seahawks (6.10).
1995. 2 teams. Jaguars (4-12). Bengals (7-9).
1996. 1 team. Ravens (4-12).
1997. 2 teams. Cowboys (6-10). Eagles (6-9-1).
1998. 2 teams. Bengals x2 (3-13). Lions (5-11).
1999. 2 teams. Browns (2-14). Bengals (4-12).
2000. 2 teams. Browns (3-13). Jaguars (7-9).

7-9 = 4
6-10 = 4 (including Eagles with tie)
5-11 = 3
4-12 = 3
3-13 = 3
2-14 = 1

[steelreserve]

Tomlin.

2007. 3 teams. Broncos (7-9). Jets (4-12). Ravens (5-11).
2008. None.
2009. 4 teams. Bears (7-9). Chiefs (4-12). Raiders (5-11). Browns (5-11).
2010. None.
2011. None.
2012. 4 teams. Raiders (4-12). Titans (6-10). Browns (5-11). Chargers (7-9).
2013. 3 teams. Titans (7-9). Vikings (5-10-1). Raiders (4-12).
2014. 4 teams. Buccaneers (2-14). Browns (7-9). Jets (4-12). Saints (7-9).
2015. 1 team. Ravens x2 (6-10 at best).

Cowher
1992. 2 teams. Browns (7-9). Bears (5-11).
1993. 3 teams. Rams (5-11). Browns (7-9). Seahawks (6-10).
1994. 1 team. Seahawks (6.10).
1995. 2 teams. Jaguars (4-12). Bengals (7-9).
1996. 1 team. Ravens (4-12).
1997. 2 teams. Cowboys (6-10). Eagles (6-9-1).
1998. 2 teams. Bengals x2 (3-13). Lions (5-11).
1999. 2 teams. Browns (2-14). Bengals (4-12).
2000. 2 teams. Browns (3-13). Jaguars (7-9).


It should be noted that about a third of the losses under Cowher came when we kind of sucked anyway (1998-2000). I don't know if that's really an argument in favor of Cowher because you shouldn't suck ... but you also can't say we "choked" in those games since we weren't exactly championship material ourselves.

The one pattern that really stands out to me as worrisome is that IN THE LAST FOUR YEARS, we've lost a fuck of a lot more games to bad teams - 13 of them. That's almost a whole season's worth of losses in 4 years. So if it seems like we choke a lot against bad teams, the reason is that yes, in fact, nearly one out of every four games we've played during that period is exactly that: a loss to a bad team. And a lot of them were season-killers, too.

Except for Cowher's last season when he was mailing it in, there was none of this bullshit where you have a good team and still miss the playoffs. When we missed the playoffs back then, it was for a good reason, which was usually that Kordell Stewart sucked.

[polamalubeast]

I compare Tomlin to Dan Bylsma, former coach of penguins in NHL.

At least when Bylsma was with the penguins, the penguins were always in the top of the standing in the regular season....

[hawaiiansteeler]

681932207196364801

I knew Cowher had less losses against poor teams...:chuckle:

https://blog-blogmediainc.netdna-ssl.com/upload/SportsBlogcom/54607/0169927001417357975_filepicker.jpg

[B&GFever]

He must be including 8-8 teams. Below .500 results are different. Below .500 Tomlin has 20 losses, Cowher 19. I don't vouch for the accuracy, this was a bitch to put together but it should be fairly accurate. This was put together based on final standings.

11 of Cowher's losses were to division rivals. 6 of Tomlin's losses were to division rivals.

For non-division, Cowher performed poorly against the Seahawks with two losses. Tomlin performed poorly against the Raiders with three losses. Division rivals in bold.

Tomlin.

2007. 3 teams. Broncos (7-9). Jets (4-12). Ravens (5-11).
2008. None.
2009. 4 teams. Bears (7-9). Chiefs (4-12). Raiders (5-11). Browns (5-11).
2010. None.
2011. None.
2012. 4 teams. Raiders (4-12). Titans (6-10). Browns (5-11). Chargers (7-9).
2013. 3 teams. Titans (7-9). Vikings (5-10-1). Raiders (4-12).
2014. 4 teams. Buccaneers (2-14). Browns (7-9). Jets (4-12). Saints (7-9).
2015. 1 team. Ravens x2 (6-10 at best).

7-9 = 6
6-10 = 3 (including Ravens)
5-11 = 5 (including Vikings with tie)
4-12 = 5
3-13 = 0
2-14 = 1

Cowher

1992. 2 teams. Browns (7-9). Bears (5-11).
1993. 3 teams. Rams (5-11). Browns (7-9). Seahawks (6-10).
1994. 1 team. Seahawks (6.10).
1995. 2 teams. Jaguars (4-12). Bengals (7-9).
1996. 1 team. Ravens (4-12).
1997. 2 teams. Cowboys (6-10). Eagles (6-9-1).
1998. 2 teams. Bengals x2 (3-13). Lions (5-11).
1999. 2 teams. Browns (2-14). Bengals (4-12).
2000. 2 teams. Browns (3-13). Jaguars (7-9).

7-9 = 4
6-10 = 4 (including Eagles with tie)
5-11 = 3
4-12 = 3
3-13 = 3
2-14 = 1

I wouldnt count the loss to the Lions in 1998 ( Thanksgiving game ) we got screwed royally that was the coin flip game where the ref claimed Bettis called one way when clear audio says another .... rules where different then too first team to score wins ... we never seen the ball

[ALLD]

Chin was not always stacked on one or both sides of the ball either. He came in to a bad team and built a winner while Shades picked up a recent Super Bowl winner to grind it down and hollow it out.

[NCSteeler]

Losing to the Ravens in their worst season in their existence is just flat embarrassing losing to them twice is un freaking believable

[st33lersguy]

If we are going to talk about Cowher it should be noted that 8 of Cowher's 15 seasons included at least one playoff win. Tomlin has only had 2 seasons with at least one playoff win in 9 seasons. Also Cowher is one of only 2 head coaches in NFL history to lead a team to the playoffs in his first 6 seasons in NFL history (Paul Brown is the other). Tomlin cannot even string together 3 consecutive playoff seasons

[fansince'76]

I compare Tomlin to Dan Bylsma, former coach of penguins in NHL.

At least when Bylsma was with the penguins, the penguins were always in the top of the standing in the regular season....

Yep, and the Pens pulled the trigger and changed coaches and look where they're at now...

[fansince'76]

I wouldnt count the loss to the Lions in 1998 ( Thanksgiving game ) we got screwed royally that was the coin flip game where the ref claimed Bettis called one way when clear audio says another

If we're going to start splitting hairs, one could kinda say the same thing about AB's "non-TD" catch Sunday. Looked like he caught it to me. I've seen other WRs awarded TDs for far worse "bobbles" than the one AB had...

[NCSteeler]

If we're going to start splitting hairs, one could kinda say the same thing about AB's "non-TD" catch Sunday. Looked like he caught it to me. I've seen other WRs awarded TDs for far worse "bobbles" than the one AB had...

Against such a lousy team, we shouldn't have to worry Bout one bobble. This should have been a total blow out.

Also I wish people would quit comparing Tomlin to Cowher . Not getting Cowher back, we have to evaluate Tomlin for what he has done period.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[plenewken]

Losing Sunday to a decimated Ravens team with a walk-in QB, in a critical game to boot, was the last straw for me. For the 5th season in a row, the Steelers have not produced any meaningful result considering the talent they have and something must be done to address the most glaring problems. This includes preparing mentally and technically for the games, putting the right players on the field (aka benching the underperformers) as well as making the necessary adjustments during the game. That's entirely on the coaching staff, starting with Tomlin.

[Drazo85]

More and more i wish that fanbase get some of the following names: Josh McDaniels, Rob Ryan, Chip Kelly, Lane Kiffin, Bobby Petrino, Eric Mangini, Mike Mularkey, Mike Singletary... Plese feel free to add to the list your sugestions.

[86WARD]

More and more i wish that fanbase get some of the following names: Josh McDaniels, Rob Ryan, Chip Kelly, Lane Kiffin, Bobby Petrino, Eric Mangini, Mike Mularkey, Mike Singletary... Plese feel free to add to the list your sugestions.

I'd take Tomlin over every one of those guys every day...not even thinking twice about it.

If they were to fire Tomlin, I'd prefer they go with a younger Coordinator type.

[polamalubeast]

More and more i wish that fanbase get some of the following names: Josh McDaniels, Rob Ryan, Chip Kelly, Lane Kiffin, Bobby Petrino, Eric Mangini, Mike Mularkey, Mike Singletary... Plese feel free to add to the list your sugestions.

I never say Tomlin was one of the worst coach in the NFL.But the last few years have been disappointing.

[steelreserve]

I'd take Tomlin over every one of those guys every day...not even thinking twice about it.

If they were to fire Tomlin, I'd prefer they go with a younger Coordinator type.


Exactly. That's the problem with the tired old go-to question:

"WELL IF YOU DONT LIKE TOMLIN WHO WOULD YOU RATHER HAVE?????? HUH??? HUH??????"

"(insert name of NFL coach who is better)"

"YEAH BUT HES NOT GOING ANYWHERE, WHO WOULD YOU RATHER HAVE THATS AVAILABLE RIGHT NOWWWWW ITS ALL LOSERS AND GUYS WHO JUST GOT FIRED!!!!!!! SEE???? SEE??? I TOLD YOU THERES NO ONE BETTER!!!!!!!"


Well, of course. That's always who's available when that question is asked in the middle of the season. Good coaches tend to have jobs.

The people who ask that question will settle for nothing less than a recent Super Bowl winning coach as an acceptable response - usually not even that - and it's not like coaches win the Super Bowl and in that same offseason just go "Whoopty-doo, I'm leaving for no reason!"

So the only thing you can really do when people say that is ignore it as a stupid rhetorical question, because that's what it is. All of the top NFL coaches weren't always top NFL coaches; at one point they were coordinators, assistants, or college coaches. That's probably where you're going to find your next guy, not poaching an established coach in the blockbuster steal of the century.

It amazes me that the same people who make a big deal about the Steelers being realistic in free agency, and love to wag their finger at you, "tut-tut, everyone knows you win by building from within or through the draft; you're not going to get a franchise QB in his prime as a free agent" ... are also the ones who insist on the exact opposite for coaches. Well,which one is it, dumbass?

[SteelerFanInStl]

More and more i wish that fanbase get some of the following names: Josh McDaniels, Rob Ryan, Chip Kelly, Lane Kiffin, Bobby Petrino, Eric Mangini, Mike Mularkey, Mike Singletary... Plese feel free to add to the list your sugestions.

Just because there are plenty of shitty coaches out there doesn't mean that we should be satisfied with Tomlin.

Most of these teams that can't win are missing a major ingredient, and that's a franchise QB. What other team with a franchise QB hasn't won a playoff game in the last 5 years? (I haven't researched this so I'm actually curious what the results are)

The truth is that Tomlin simply isn't getting it done with the talent that's been given to him.

[hawaiiansteeler]

mlin.

Most of these teams that can't win are missing a major ingredient, and that's a franchise QB. What other team with a franchise QB hasn't won a playoff game in the last 5 years? (I haven't researched this so I'm actually curious what the results are)



Don Shula managed to miss the playoffs 4 seasons in a row (1986-1989) despite having Dan Marino in his prime.

FIRE DON SHULA!!!

[SteelerFanInStl]

Don Shula managed to miss the playoffs 4 seasons in a row (1986-1989) despite having Dan Marino in his prime.

FIRE DON SHULA!!!

How many Super Bowls did Shula win with Marino? That's right, 0. Maybe he should've been fired.

[polamalubeast]

Don Shula managed to miss the playoffs 4 seasons in a row (1986-1989) despite having Dan Marino in his prime.

FIRE DON SHULA!!!

Shula was a very good coach at his start of his career(1963 to 1985), but sometimes you have to make a change when things are not working anymore.


No Super Bowl win with Marino is one thing, but the fact that Miami has very rarely compete for a Super Bowl after 1985 in a very weak AFC was very disappointing.

[TD's & Beer]

The Tomlin apologists are sounding a lot like the Kordell apologists

[ALLD]

All his talk is mostly crap without results on the field. That's the bottom line.

[hawaiiansteeler]

All his talk is mostly crap without results on the field. That's the bottom line.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H56E12tPiac

[Steel Peon]

Well, here's how the conversation started:

Did you also take picture of the 4-5 one arm misses of Blake today?.....Like 16 games worth, like leading the entire team in missed tackles. This game sure as hell wasn't lost because of Boykin.

Well now you're just lying, he was in on 1 play as far anyone saw.

As far as anyone saw? I think your lying, Blake was sure as hell in there for more than one play. I saw him doing his one arm misses. I'll get the snap count shortly.
Now to be fair, I guess there was a slight misunderstanding on what I meant by "in on 1 play," and by that I meant actually had some form of action taken on 1 play. Just so happens, it was actually the 1 play I must've been looking away at something else, because for the life of me I couldn't remember it, and many people on this board (and others) swore that he'd missed a tackle on a 3rd and something that would've forced a punt. Well, I manage to find a "replay" of the game and I can now tell everyone who saw Blake miss a tackle that indeed you were right, at 13:17 in the 2Q on a 3rd & 3 around the Balt 47 yd line Blake makes contact with the receiver behind the 1st down marker and weakly allows them to escape and get the 1st down.


Blake played 41 defensive snaps yesterday before leaving the game about halftime. Now I'll try and get some clips for you.
So now to resolve the misunderstanding Shoes, you're right that he was in the game for 41 snaps, that much is irrefutable. However, you don't have to find me any clips because I just watched the entire Steeler defensive summary of the game, and you know what I found? That 1 missed tackle of Blake's was the only play of the game in which he was in on that he had any effect on. So, if you saw any more than that, then you imagined it, which appears to be the case. Don't feel bad because I've seen other people doing the same thing here and there, so it's semi-contagious.

[cold-hard-steel]

So what are we gonna do ?Pull apart or come together ? Each way you choose to go has it's pitfalls. You can never win every season .I have been a follower since 1972 and we never won nothin. But I guess when you finally reach that plane you develop your very own expectations to remain there. I think sometimes we do not give credit to the other teams that are striving to be like us .Can you really blame them for wanting to have a legacy such as ours ?

[Shoes]

Well, here's how the conversation started:



Now to be fair, I guess there was a slight misunderstanding on what I meant by "in on 1 play," and by that I meant actually had some form of action taken on 1 play. Just so happens, it was actually the 1 play I must've been looking away at something else, because for the life of me I couldn't remember it, and many people on this board (and others) swore that he'd missed a tackle on a 3rd and something that would've forced a punt. Well, I manage to find a "replay" of the game and I can now tell everyone who saw Blake miss a tackle that indeed you were right, at 13:17 in the 2Q on a 3rd & 3 around the Balt 47 yd line Blake makes contact with the receiver behind the 1st down marker and weakly allows them to escape and get the 1st down.


So now to resolve the misunderstanding Shoes, you're right that he was in the game for 41 snaps, that much is irrefutable. However, you don't have to find me any clips because I just watched the entire Steeler defensive summary of the game, and you know what I found? That 1 missed tackle of Blake's was the only play of the game in which he was in on that he had any effect on. So, if you saw any more than that, then you imagined it, which appears to be the case. Don't feel bad because I've seen other people doing the same thing here and there, so it's semi-contagious.


I couldn't find any clips and was hoping I could find instead, missed tackle stats on Steelers in this game, but nothing yet. I appreciate you reporting back, I was sure I saw Blake missing more than 1 tackle. I suppose if he would have played the entire game I would have been correct. :chuckle: But Blake is well over 30 missed tackles at this point, i would like to know how many points that translates to.

PFF has the CB's rated overall.... 0-59 replaceable, 60-69 backup, 70-84 starter, 85-89 pro bowler, 90-100 elite
Boykin - 80
Cockrell - 79.1 Ranked 30
Gay -76.3 Ranked 40
Blake - 31.7 Ranked 118
C. Allen - 30.2

[NCSteeler]

Coaches are supposed to put people in a place prepared to succeed .


The fourth-down miss to Wheaton came when Wheaton turned inside to look for the ball while Roethlisberger threw outside, a play in which the Steelers lined Wheaton up on the outside rather than his usual spot in the slot in search of an advantage. Instead a miscommunication gave Baltimore a chance to bleed all but the game's final 7 seconds.


Not change things up with a forth down game ending play on the line. This is the time you pull out your most reliable well executed play not change things up. Wtf




Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[teegre]

I can read lips. I saw Tomlin tell Martavis Bryant to drop that third down pass.

True story.

[86WARD]

I can read lips. I saw Tomlin tell Martavis Bryant to drop that third down pass.

True story.

I swore I saw the same but just thought I Was seeing things. I also bought I Saw him on several occasions mouth: "Put Blake In" and at one point ask "Where's Mike Vick?".

[teegre]

I swore I saw the same but just thought I Was seeing things. I also bought I Saw him on several occasions mouth: "Put Blake In" and at one point ask "Where's Mike Vick?".

:rofl2:

He did indeed say all of that.

He also said to Villanueva: "Ben beat me at checkers; let the DE crush his knees!!!"

[tube517]

I couldn't find any clips and was hoping I could find instead, missed tackle stats on Steelers in this game, but nothing yet. I appreciate you reporting back, I was sure I saw Blake missing more than 1 tackle. I suppose if he would have played the entire game I would have been correct. :chuckle: But Blake is well over 30 missed tackles at this point, i would like to know how many points that translates to.

PFF has the CB's rated overall.... 0-59 replaceable, 60-69 backup, 70-84 starter, 85-89 pro bowler, 90-100 elite
Boykin - 80
Cockrell - 79.1 Ranked 30
Gay -76.3 Ranked 40
Blake - 31.7 Ranked 118
C. Allen - 30.2

0-35 should be the "Blake line" Similar to baseball's Mendoza line

[Steelman]

:rofl2:

He did indeed say all of that.

He also said to Villanueva: "Ben beat me at checkers; let the DE crush his knees!!!"

Just classic 007 games. :lol:

[teegre]

Just classic 007 games. :lol:

:toofunny: That made me laugh audibly. Well done.

[Mojouw]

Just because there are plenty of shitty coaches out there doesn't mean that we should be satisfied with Tomlin.

Most of these teams that can't win are missing a major ingredient, and that's a franchise QB. What other team with a franchise QB hasn't won a playoff game in the last 5 years? (I haven't researched this so I'm actually curious what the results are)

The truth is that Tomlin simply isn't getting it done with the talent that's been given to him.

Gee. If only we had the entire store of human knowledge at our fingertips. The better research question is which 5 coaches (hell even 3) active in the NFL right now that would have handled the adversity that Tomlin has guided this team and others through as well?

Harbaugh? Which one - the one that quit on the NFL after losing his locker room, or the one who lost his starting QB and had ZERO answers and basically let his team tank.
Sean Payton? He would never call dumb plays like Haley. He would manage the clock better than Tomlin. Oh yeah. His team is terrible despite obliterating their salary cap.
And Reid? Next.
Jason Garrett? Lost his starting QB and blankly oversaw a tailspin of a season. Just kept doing the same things hoping it would get better.
Rex Ryan? I'm sure his emotional antics on the sidelines and his wacky press conferences would endear him to many around here, but his teams are garbage.
Whatever dirtball is wasting Phillip Rivers in San Diego.
Coughlin? Anyone watch the Giants play? They are an almost total disaster.
McCarthy because the Packers are good. Well. Here's the thing. They lost one WR. One. And the offense has stunk all year. That's with a healthy Aaron Rodgers and a healthy offensive line. Anyone think that the offense here would simply fail to score points and move the ball if they lost AB? I bet it would really suffer, but not cease to exist. And, yes, McCarthy is calling the plays again and it hasn't gotten better.

Now that is just going through the teams that are supposed to be kinda good. We haven't even talked about bad teams yet. I know I sound like a broken record, but where are these coaches that are consistently doing so much better?

Tomlin and Haley can be infuriating at times, but it isn't like they are bringing up the back of the pack across the league.

I haven't taken the time to read through almost 20 pages of this thread, but I will say this. Which of the following is really surprising?
1. The Steelers pass rush is only any good when the other team is down 2+ scores and they can make opposing offenses one dimensional. A rookie, an aging hero, and the same cast of dirtballs that didn't get it done last season.
2. Change the cast, but the result is the same. Anyone physically capable enough to make an NFL roster can have their way with this secondary. Wasn't this what we all thought prior to the season?
3. Roethlisberger has about 1-2 WTF games per year. This past game was one of those. He was awful. The Steelers are not talented enough to overcome that anymore.

But, I'm guessing that if Tomlin didn't have the team come out flat, made a good speech or two, benched Blaykrell (3 three headed monster of CB suck), told Haley to do something different than he was doing, and the Steelers tried to get the first down and not the "splash" play - they would have won. Did I get it right? Oh. I almost forgot. Bryant needs to grow a pair of hairy nuts and make tough catches.

[tube517]

Blaykrell 3 headed monster of CB suck LMAO. Always love your posts Moj

Sent from my LGMS631 using Tapatalk

[steelreserve]

Gee. If only we had the entire store of human knowledge at our fingertips. The better research question is which 5 coaches (hell even 3) active in the NFL right now that would have handled the adversity that Tomlin has guided this team and others through as well?


Wrong question. The next coach of the Steelers is 99% likely to be someone who is not and has never been an NFL coach at this point in time. So that's pretty much a rhetorical line used to dig in one's heels and set up arguments that are unwinnable for either side. Kind of like the tried and true "Well we're just fans and they're professionals, so if you don't trust that the front office knows what they're doing better than you do, you're automatically delusional" bit.

The right question is: What has Tomlin been doing over the past 3-4 years (the time when the "Cowher's players" argument stopped being a thing) that is special and most other coaches could not do? Still waiting for anyone to come up with a good answer to that.

Throw in mostly poor player development, an apparent lack of involvement in a lot of situations involving the front office or assistants, and some good, old-fashioned stubbornness and a lot of empty words, and you've really not got a convincing case he's more than about a .500 football coach, or likely worse than that if he didn't have the HUGE advantage of a top-5 quarterback for his entire coaching career so far. Average. That's about all I'm willing to concede. And there are lots of people who can do an average job. There is nothing special about Tomlin.

[ALLD]

What has Tomlin done that warrants retaining his position?

[Craic]

What has Tomlin done that warrants retaining his position?

1 Superbowl victory
2 Superbowl bids
8-8 or better through a following rebuilding cycle
2 years or less between any playoff berth
in the years without playoffs, either lost playoff berth by tiebreaker or was the last team to miss the playoffs (highest team wins without making playoffs)
Tied to previous - competing every year for a playoff berth in December

One of the single biggest reasons we are continually competitive since the 1970s is the consistency of coaches. Turnover of coaches means turnover of scheme. Turnover of scheme means turnover of roster for new scheme (elements of...). Turnover of roster means another 3-5 years of rebuilding, since we do are still a "Build from the draft" mentality team.

[SteelerFanInStl]

Wrong question. The next coach of the Steelers is 99% likely to be someone who is not and has never been an NFL coach at this point in time. So that's pretty much a rhetorical line used to dig in one's heels and set up arguments that are unwinnable for either side. Kind of like the tried and true "Well we're just fans and they're professionals, so if you don't trust that the front office knows what they're doing better than you do, you're automatically delusional" bit.

The right question is: What has Tomlin been doing over the past 3-4 years (the time when the "Cowher's players" argument stopped being a thing) that is special and most other coaches could not do? Still waiting for anyone to come up with a good answer to that.

Throw in mostly poor player development, an apparent lack of involvement in a lot of situations involving the front office or assistants, and some good, old-fashioned stubbornness and a lot of empty words, and you've really not got a convincing case he's more than about a .500 football coach, or likely worse than that if he didn't have the HUGE advantage of a top-5 quarterback for his entire coaching career so far. Average. That's about all I'm willing to concede. And there are lots of people who can do an average job. There is nothing special about Tomlin.

Yep. I'm tired of the excuses. If the rest of you want to settle for mediocrity, then go for it. I won't. I'm sure that some people will say "Steeler fans are spoiled". Yea, that may be but the definition of stupidity is continuing to do the same thing even though it isn't working. We need to change it up. We need to make the most of Ben's last years in the NFL and bring another championship to the Steel City.

Tomlin is nothing more than talk and false bravado. He talks a good game. That's what got him the job. Unfortunately he can't back it up with results.

[Mojouw]

Wrong question. The next coach of the Steelers is 99% likely to be someone who is not and has never been an NFL coach at this point in time. So that's pretty much a rhetorical line used to dig in one's heels and set up arguments that are unwinnable for either side. Kind of like the tried and true "Well we're just fans and they're professionals, so if you don't trust that the front office knows what they're doing better than you do, you're automatically delusional" bit.

The right question is: What has Tomlin been doing over the past 3-4 years (the time when the "Cowher's players" argument stopped being a thing) that is special and most other coaches could not do? Still waiting for anyone to come up with a good answer to that.

Throw in mostly poor player development, an apparent lack of involvement in a lot of situations involving the front office or assistants, and some good, old-fashioned stubbornness and a lot of empty words, and you've really not got a convincing case he's more than about a .500 football coach, or likely worse than that if he didn't have the HUGE advantage of a top-5 quarterback for his entire coaching career so far. Average. That's about all I'm willing to concede. And there are lots of people who can do an average job. There is nothing special about Tomlin.

My point was not about who is or is not going to be the next coach of the Pittsburgh Steelers. That can be addressed and debate when and if the Rooneys announce a firing or resignation.

My point is that I do not believe it is useful or interesting to compare and evaluate the performance of the sports teams I follow, their players, and/or their coaches against either arbitrary or standards lacking in context. As I have repeatedly argued, the only context for evaluating an NFL franchise, is a comparison to the other NFL franchises. That was the point of my list of coaches and my evaluation of their performance/circumstances.

Of course we can invent a coach and a standard. I put forth that Mahde Uppe (he is a French speaking foreigner - I know right?) will be an awesome next coach of the Steelers. His positive qualities include:
1. Answering media questions in such exacting and specific detail that there ceases to be any internet speculation about the Steelers. Complete "behind the scenes" knowledge by every fan for every decision. As a result, no free agents want to the play for the team. Allegations that Coach Mahde Uppe airs too much "internal discussions" and that certain issues "shouldn't leave the locker room".

2. Yells at everyone. All the time. Fans of the Pittsburgh Steelers find themselves conflicted. They are considering replacing their Cowher shrines with one to a weird little French guy. Confusing and troubling times abound in the Steel City.

3. Never uses his "gut". In fact, it is rumored that he has had it removed so he can't be tempted. Instead refers to a laminated sheet that lists the infamous "percentages" and highlights the "smart play". Occasionally, interacts with Twitter followers during the game to confirm that going for it on 4th and short is a bit too "splashy". Since their is nothing to talk about regarding the team's strategies and roster moves, most Steelers message boards focus on how Coach Mahde Uppe absorbs nutrients without a gut.

4. Oddly, Coach Mahde Uppe's teams go 0-16 each year. No one can figure out why a vanilla boring coach with total transparency into team affairs and the least innovative playbook in the league doesn't do better. Fans of the Steelers are perplexed and can't figure out what to be mad about. They got everything they wanted, but the team is worse than before. Talk of needing to bring in more "Tomlin Guys" is heard for the first time. The internet explodes and humanity goes back to using printing presses.

See, Mike Tomlin is the cornerstone of western civilization! Seriously, I am confounded by how anyone looked at this roster prior to the season and said anything besides : "There goes a 9-7 team, maybe 10-6. IF everything breaks their way, maybe, just maybe, 11-5." Then absolutely NOTHING broke their way and they are still going to finish 10-6.

Where there really other expectations?

[st33lersguy]

1 Superbowl victory
2 Superbowl bids
8-8 or better through a following rebuilding cycle
2 years or less between any playoff berth
in the years without playoffs, either lost playoff berth by tiebreaker or was the last team to miss the playoffs (highest team wins without making playoffs)
Tied to previous - competing every year for a playoff berth in December

One of the single biggest reasons we are continually competitive since the 1970s is the consistency of coaches. Turnover of coaches means turnover of scheme. Turnover of scheme means turnover of roster for new scheme (elements of...). Turnover of roster means another 3-5 years of rebuilding, since we do are still a "Build from the draft" mentality team.

What has he done in the past 5 years other than go 0-2 in the playoffs with a franchise QB in his prime, including a playoff loss to suckass Tim Tebow?

[86WARD]

Gee. If only we had the entire store of human knowledge at our fingertips. The better research question is which 5 coaches (hell even 3) active in the NFL right now that would have handled the adversity that Tomlin has guided this team and others through as well?

Harbaugh? Which one - the one that quit on the NFL after losing his locker room, or the one who lost his starting QB and had ZERO answers and basically let his team tank.
Sean Payton? He would never call dumb plays like Haley. He would manage the clock better than Tomlin. Oh yeah. His team is terrible despite obliterating their salary cap.
And Reid? Next.
Jason Garrett? Lost his starting QB and blankly oversaw a tailspin of a season. Just kept doing the same things hoping it would get better.
Rex Ryan? I'm sure his emotional antics on the sidelines and his wacky press conferences would endear him to many around here, but his teams are garbage.
Whatever dirtball is wasting Phillip Rivers in San Diego.
Coughlin? Anyone watch the Giants play? They are an almost total disaster.
McCarthy because the Packers are good. Well. Here's the thing. They lost one WR. One. And the offense has stunk all year. That's with a healthy Aaron Rodgers and a healthy offensive line. Anyone think that the offense here would simply fail to score points and move the ball if they lost AB? I bet it would really suffer, but not cease to exist. And, yes, McCarthy is calling the plays again and it hasn't gotten better.

Now that is just going through the teams that are supposed to be kinda good. We haven't even talked about bad teams yet. I know I sound like a broken record, but where are these coaches that are consistently doing so much better?

Tomlin and Haley can be infuriating at times, but it isn't like they are bringing up the back of the pack across the league.

I haven't taken the time to read through almost 20 pages of this thread, but I will say this. Which of the following is really surprising?
1. The Steelers pass rush is only any good when the other team is down 2+ scores and they can make opposing offenses one dimensional. A rookie, an aging hero, and the same cast of dirtballs that didn't get it done last season.
2. Change the cast, but the result is the same. Anyone physically capable enough to make an NFL roster can have their way with this secondary. Wasn't this what we all thought prior to the season?
3. Roethlisberger has about 1-2 WTF games per year. This past game was one of those. He was awful. The Steelers are not talented enough to overcome that anymore.

But, I'm guessing that if Tomlin didn't have the team come out flat, made a good speech or two, benched Blaykrell (3 three headed monster of CB suck), told Haley to do something different than he was doing, and the Steelers tried to get the first down and not the "splash" play - they would have won. Did I get it right? Oh. I almost forgot. Bryant needs to grow a pair of hairy nuts and make tough catches.

This again...

- - - Updated - - -


My point was not about who is or is not going to be the next coach of the Pittsburgh Steelers. That can be addressed and debate when and if the Rooneys announce a firing or resignation.

My point is that I do not believe it is useful or interesting to compare and evaluate the performance of the sports teams I follow, their players, and/or their coaches against either arbitrary or standards lacking in context. As I have repeatedly argued, the only context for evaluating an NFL franchise, is a comparison to the other NFL franchises. That was the point of my list of coaches and my evaluation of their performance/circumstances.

Of course we can invent a coach and a standard. I put forth that Mahde Uppe (he is a French speaking foreigner - I know right?) will be an awesome next coach of the Steelers. His positive qualities include:
1. Answering media questions in such exacting and specific detail that there ceases to be any internet speculation about the Steelers. Complete "behind the scenes" knowledge by every fan for every decision. As a result, no free agents want to the play for the team. Allegations that Coach Mahde Uppe airs too much "internal discussions" and that certain issues "shouldn't leave the locker room".

2. Yells at everyone. All the time. Fans of the Pittsburgh Steelers find themselves conflicted. They are considering replacing their Cowher shrines with one to a weird little French guy. Confusing and troubling times abound in the Steel City.

3. Never uses his "gut". In fact, it is rumored that he has had it removed so he can't be tempted. Instead refers to a laminated sheet that lists the infamous "percentages" and highlights the "smart play". Occasionally, interacts with Twitter followers during the game to confirm that going for it on 4th and short is a bit too "splashy". Since their is nothing to talk about regarding the team's strategies and roster moves, most Steelers message boards focus on how Coach Mahde Uppe absorbs nutrients without a gut.

4. Oddly, Coach Mahde Uppe's teams go 0-16 each year. No one can figure out why a vanilla boring coach with total transparency into team affairs and the least innovative playbook in the league doesn't do better. Fans of the Steelers are perplexed and can't figure out what to be mad about. They got everything they wanted, but the team is worse than before. Talk of needing to bring in more "Tomlin Guys" is heard for the first time. The internet explodes and humanity goes back to using printing presses.

See, Mike Tomlin is the cornerstone of western civilization! Seriously, I am confounded by how anyone looked at this roster prior to the season and said anything besides : "There goes a 9-7 team, maybe 10-6. IF everything breaks their way, maybe, just maybe, 11-5." Then absolutely NOTHING broke their way and they are still going to finish 10-6.

Where there really other expectations?

The expectations come when a team that is far, far, far superior than a division rival yet wind up finding a way to lose via coaching decisions and player execution. This is what people are angry about (I think). Once, twice...okay. When it becomes a pattern and frequent recurrence, that's where the issue lies...

[st33lersguy]

This again...

- - - Updated - - -



The expectations come when a team that is far, far, far superior than a division rival yet wind up finding a way to lose via coaching decisions and player execution. This is what people are angry about (I think). Once, twice...okay. When it becomes a pattern and frequent recurrence, that's where the issue lies...

Even more so when said pattern costs the team multiple playoff appearances in less than a decade

[Craic]

What has he done in the past 5 years other than go 0-2 in the playoffs with a franchise QB in his prime, including a playoff loss to suckass Tim Tebow?

reread my post. I've already answered your question.

[zulater]

`I don't know? I just think it's too easy and quite frankly lazy to blame the coach. Yeah I know everything that's happened with this team over the past 9 seasons. I can't explain some of the losses. I can't explain why they seemingly play to the level of their competition? But what I do have some understanding on is that teams who frequently change coaches generally suck. Teams that get close a few times but run into the late season wall a few seasons in a row who then blow up their coach generally regress instead of get better. Remember when there was an Oiler team, and remember in the late 70's- early 80's how they got pretty good under Bum Phillips for awhile? 4 double digit win seasons in 6 years. 5 winning seasons. This for a franchise that had spent the best part of the previous 10+ seasons as a joke. Anyway coming off an 11-5 season they fire Bum after a wild card playoff loss to the eventual SB champion Raiders which ironically enough meant that poor Bum got eliminated in the playoffs 3 straight years by the eventual SB champs. So they fire Bum, how did that work out? Well they went from 11 wins to 7 and then proceeded to go 16-59 over the next 5 years throwing in 1,2,3, and two 5 win seasons along the way. Yeah Bum obviously was the problem!:sarcasm:

Want an example closer to home? Try this one on. Does anyone doubt the greatness of Chuck Noll?( if you do you're an idiot) We all remember what he did right? Or do we? Well yeah sure he had some struggles at the end but that came when he didn't have a franchise qb. Guess again. As someone old enough to remember I will tell you without a moments hesitation that Terry Bradshaw was as good or better qb in his last 3 full seasons than anytime in his career. 80-81-82's Terry Bradshaw was so much better than 74-75 not even close. And I will tell you right now he was every bit as good those 3 seasons as he was in 78 and certainly 79 when he threw 25 int on the season. But those 3 seasons (80-82) with a franchise qb playing at the peak of his abilities the Steelers missed the playoffs twice, and were one and done the year they made the playoffs.

Anyway as a child of the 70's I can remember when John Madden was labeled as a coach who couldn't get a team over the hump. Same was said about Tom Landry. Turns out staying with them despite multiple playoff losses and years of falling short worked out ok.

Now it doesn't always. The Redskins never quite made it to the top under George Allen. 7 straight winning seasons ( for a team that hadn't posted consecutive winning seasons since Sammy Baugh retired) 6 times in the playoffs. They fire him and proceed to miss the playoffs the next 5 years. Chuck Knox was another guy who made bad teams good ( Rams and the Bills) but never quite got over the top. But once fired those teams regressed rapidly.

I could go on and on. I could even go the opposite tract and point out mediocre coaches who just happened to be at the right place at the right time ( George Seifert, Tom Flores, Barry Switzer, Jon Gruden) who took another man's team to a SB championship. Now I realize some of you Tomlin doubters would put Tomlin in this category :lol:

But anyway here's my point. I think this is one of those careful what you ask for things. More often than not when your team shows championship potential but falls short it's just because. So many things have to fall into place in order to win it all in a particular season. And more often than not exercising patience and staying with the status quo gives you a better chance than blowing things up and starting over with a new regime. Believe it or not this team likes and respects Tomlin. Put in a new coach there could be some resentment. Is Ben going to respond to a new coaching staff etc...?

In summary I just think the best chance for the 2016 Steelers is to bring back Mike Tomlin. Yeah there's some things to be addressed. Maybe you've got to be a little more aggressive in your roster make up, find some free agents to help shore up the defense not only in the secondary but also with your lb's. Call me a wide eyed optimist if you like, but with better luck on the health front, a little more favorable schedule, and avoid the season sweep by any divisional rivals and I think I like this teams chances with Mike Tomlin next year.

[polamalubeast]

If the Steelers would lose in the divisional round or the AFC title game, I would not be upset.The problem of Tomlin is the lack of playoff win and the lack of playoff appearances.

Yes John Harbaugh has a difficult season with the Ravens, but since 2008 his team have participated in the playoffs 6 times and they have 10 playoff win and every time the Ravens have lost in the playoffs it was against a better team.

[86WARD]

If Tomlin wins the previous Ravens game and either the first one or another game on the schedule...say the Chiefs game, he's deep into the talk for coach of the year. Probably wouldn't win it over Arians or Rivera, but instead of a two horse race, there's a third. The losses suffered this year aside from being owned by the Ravens, weren't terrible losses. Bengals, Seahawks, Patriots are all legitimate teams...a game in KC with a back up QB...not the easiest place to come out with a victory. This team should have swept the Ravens which would put the record at 11-4...but they didn't...

Tomlin has had some good coaching choices and some bad and I'm sure if you follow any other coach, you'd find the same. The thing with Tomlin's teams is they just don't get up for the games against "lesser" opponents...for whatever reason, they just don't.

[zulater]

Here's 3 guys that aren't in Pgh today if Tomlin wasn't here.

1. DeAngelo Williams. When Williams signed on here he cited Tomlin as being among the chief reasons. Not only that when the Steelers signed him Tomlin told him he needed to lose weight, and gave him a specific weight he needed to report at. A weight DeAngelo hadn't seen for years. Tomlin told him he needed to improve his quickness and this would go a long way towards that. So how did that turn out? Imagine our season without Williams?

2. Alejendro Villenueva. Not only would he not be a Steeler today if Tomlin hadn't noticed him during the National Anthem prior to a 14 Preseason game, he probably wouldn't even be in the league. Here he was a college tight end at Army. How many Army alum are in the NFL? Anyway goes from that to fledgling defensive lineman who bounces around various teams practice squads before being cut by the Eagles. So Tomlin reaches out to him signs him and makes him an OT. a position he had never played before. So under Mike Munchak's tutelage not only is he able to make the active roster in his second season with the Steelers, first full season after transitioning to OL, he ends uo being thrust into the starting line-up at LT. One of the most difficult positions inn the league, and acquits himself quite well. Yes he played poorly against the Ravens. But overall his played helped sustain one of the most dynamic offenses in the league. This despite facing a murderers row of edge rushers.

3.) Mike Munchak. Mike Tomlin reached out to Munchak as soon as he was let go by the Titans. And when Munchak came here he cited the overall stability of the organization as being a key factor to coming here. He had other offers, but coming to a team that doesn't change coaches on a whim gave him a sense of security he wouldn't get elsewhere.

Look in the end whatever Tomlin is, whatever Cowher was, part of what made them winning coaches and thus made the Steelers a team that's downs are never prolonged is that the players know their coach will be back the next year and the year after that etc... You start kicking out the legs from under coaches who are solid and the next thing you know you;re the Browns.

[vader29]

Here's 3 guys that aren't in Pgh today if Tomlin wasn't here.

1. DeAngelo Williams. When Williams signed on here he cited Tomlin as being among the chief reasons. Not only that when the Steelers signed him Tomlin told him he needed to lose weight, and gave him a specific weight he needed to report at. A weight DeAngelo hadn't seen for years. Tomlin told him he needed to improve his quickness and this would go a long way towards that. So how did that turn out? Imagine our season without Williams?

2. Alejendro Villenueva. Not only would he not be a Steeler today if Tomlin hadn't noticed him during the National Anthem prior to a 14 Preseason game, he probably wouldn't even be in the league. Here he was a college tight end at Army. How many Army alum are in the NFL? Anyway goes from that to fledgling defensive lineman who bounces around various teams practice squads before being cut by the Eagles. So Tomlin reaches out to him signs him and makes him an OT. a position he had never played before. So under Mike Munchak's tutelage not only is he able to make the active roster in his second season with the Steelers, first full season after transitioning to OL, he ends uo being thrust into the starting line-up at LT. One of the most difficult positions inn the league, and acquits himself quite well. Yes he played poorly against the Ravens. But overall his played helped sustain one of the most dynamic offenses in the league. This despite facing a murderers row of edge rushers.

3.) Mike Munchak. Mike Tomlin reached out to Munchak as soon as he was let go by the Titans. And when Munchak came here he cited the overall stability of the organization as being a key factor to coming here. He had other offers, but coming to a team that doesn't change coaches on a whim gave him a sense of security he wouldn't get elsewhere.

Look in the end whatever Tomlin is, whatever Cowher was, part of what made them winning coaches and thus made the Steelers a team that's downs are never prolonged is that the players know their coach will be back the next year and the year after that etc... You start kicking out the legs from under coaches who are solid and the next thing you know you;re the Browns.
Mike Vick also would not be here if Tomlin wasn't. :heh:

[st33lersguy]

reread my post. I've already answered your question.

I'm sorry but finishing 8-8 and being the last team to miss the playoffs with a talented roster, explosive offense and franchise QB because the team lost to 2 or more garbage teams is not an accomplishment worth celebrating, maybe it would be noteworthy for a team with no talent that finished 3-13 the previous year but not a team with a QB this good in a passing league and a team with talent.

[86WARD]

Mike Vick also would not be here if Tomlin wasn't. :heh:

LeGarrette Blount could still be here had he not blessed us with his hissy fit...

[86WARD]

I'm sorry but finishing 8-8 and being the last team to miss the playoffs with a talented roster, explosive offense and franchise QB because the team lost to 2 or more garbage teams is not an accomplishment worth celebrating, maybe it would be noteworthy for a team with no talent that finished 3-13 the previous year but not a team with a QB this good in a passing league and a team with talent.

Ravens are a garbage team. Chiefs at the time were a "garbage team" but that game was at Arrowhead...which is always tough and it just so happened that themChiefs became very HOT there and the Steelers were in a hole and had Landry Jones at QB. I'm pretty confident that the team the Steelers would field today is better than the Chiefs...whether they would win...that's another story...but at the time the Chiefs were better. So exactly what were the other garbage losses this season?

[st33lersguy]

Ravens are a garbage team. Chiefs at the time were a "garbage team" but that game was at Arrowhead...which is always tough and it just so happened that themChiefs became very HOT there and the Steelers were in a hole and had Landry Jones at QB. I'm pretty confident that the team the Steelers would field today is better than the Chiefs...whether they would win...that's another story...but at the time the Chiefs were better. So exactly what were the other garbage losses this season?

I'm talking about the course of Tomlin's career including 2012 and 2013. I am counting double for the Ravens since it is 2 games. Getting swept by a 5-win team is simply unacceptable

[polamalubeast]

I can live with the first loss against the Ravens since it was with Vick and our kicker cost the game.But I can not live with the last loss in Baltimore since the season was on the line.

And as everyone knows, it happens very often to lose against bad teams and it's very embarrassing.

[B&GFever]

Mike Vick also would not be here if Tomlin wasn't. :heh:

nor would have Jacoby Jones ( gone today though by the way )

we also would not have Blake as a starting corner .....

so for all the so called Tomlin Blessings we also have Tomlin curses to balance them out

- - - Updated - - -


I'm talking about the course of Tomlin's career including 2012 and 2013. I am counting double for the Ravens since it is 2 games. Getting swept by a 5-win team is simply unacceptable

to take a line from the Willie Parker detractors ( take away the long runs )

Take away the 2 Baltimore wins vs the Steelers and they are now a 3 win team ... 40% of their wins are VS the Tomlin led Steelers

[hawaiiansteeler]

Steeler fans seriously need to stop blaming Mike Tomlin

By ANDREW DOMENCIC - *December 31, 2015

http://cover32.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/USATSI_9020286-696x432.jpg

These days, in Steeler Nation, hearing fans blame Mike Tomlin has become almost as common as seeing fans waving a Terrible Towel.

Yes, with the Pittsburgh Steelers’ recent loss to the Baltimore Ravens I could not help but wait for what I knew was coming. I knew there would be people calling for Tomlin’s head, but part of me wanted to think that maybe it would not happen this time. Maybe Steeler fans would stop arbitrarily placing the blame on the coach and actually look to who was really at fault, and that is Ben Roethlisberger.

It was not the coaching decisions that cost Pittsburgh the game, it was the uncommon poor play at Ben Roethlisberger that caused the Steelers to drop their third straight game to their bitter rivals.

Blaming Mike Tomlin for last week’s loss is patently absurd.

But see, I knew all this was coming. I knew it was coming from the moment the clock hit 0:00 because it is an every-week occurrence: when Pittsburgh loses, so many fans want Mike Tomlin fired; yet, when they win, he never gets any credit.

And it’s true. He really never gets any credit. I could not tell you how many times I’ve heard a fan say something along the lines of, “What has he accomplished that’s significant? And winning the Super Bowl doesn’t count because that was all Bill Cowher.”

It is an incredible double standard that so many fans embrace, and it is very troubling.

Many reading this may have seen the recent article that went viral suggesting that Mike Tomlin would be leaving the Pittsburgh Steelers to go back to working as a diagnostician for Dr. Gregory House.

This, of course, was a parody article referencing the fictional character Dr. House from the television series House M.D., and one of his employees who is played by Omar Epps, who greatly resembles Mike Tomlin.

However, despite the article being intended as a joke, it was actually believed and taken as fact by thousands of Steeler fans who loved the idea of Mike Tomlin leaving Pittsburgh.

It simply does not make any sense, especially since so many want to compare Tomlin to Bill Cowher as if to suggest that Cowher was somehow astronomically superior to him.

This, too, is complete nonsense.

In fact, if the Steelers win on Sunday against Cleveland, it will put Mike Tomlin’s career winning percentage (including the playoffs) at .633. At this same point in Bill Cowher’s career, his winning percentage was only .587.

Add Mike Tomlin’s winning playoff record and two Super Bowl appearances to the mix, and the nonsense is further exposed.

Now, this is not to suggest that Cowher was not a great coach, but one must recognize that Mike Tomlin’s career up to this point is actually better than that of Bill Cowher.

Clearly, this will not be recognized by many fans, and I am sure that many of my friends, family, and the media will be calling Mike Tomlin to be fired if things do not work out on Sunday.

I am also sure that it is utterly ridiculous and unwarranted.

http://cover32.com/2015/12/31/steeler-fans-seriously-need-to-stop-blaming-mike-tomlin/#rA8owkkSt4GCRrMV.99

[Shoes]

Right, Tomlin sits in his castle with a moat surrounding him, the Pittsburgh sports media and the talking heads on NFL network & ESPN throwing softball questions to him and the fans need to stop blaming him. What a joke! The sport and political media are very much alike. He gets plenty of credit from his moat supporters.

[steelreserve]

One of the single biggest reasons we are continually competitive since the 1970s is the consistency of coaches. Turnover of coaches means turnover of scheme. Turnover of scheme means turnover of roster for new scheme (elements of...). Turnover of roster means another 3-5 years of rebuilding, since we do are still a "Build from the draft" mentality team.


Except for the fact that none of those things happened at all after our last coaching change, or the one before that, I guess you have a good point ...

[B&GFever]

ANDREW DOMENCIC the writer of the article above clearly hasnt been around here where Tomlin get more than his fair share of free passes

[GBMelBlount]

I wonder what Tomlin's record would be if he had had an average QB his entire tenure instead of Ben.

[B&GFever]

I wonder what Tomlin's record would be if he had had an average QB his entire tenure instead of Ben.


my guess is he would now be a position coach somewhere

[st33lersguy]

I wonder what Tomlin's record would be if he had had an average QB his entire tenure instead of Ben.

My guess wins 5 wins max each year the last 3-4 years. Last week's game at Baltimore would have likely been a battle for 2nd place in the division

[zulater]

I can play the conjecture game too. How many Super Bowls would the Steelers have if they fired their coach after consecutive losing seasons and or 3 straight non playoff years, or 4 straight non playoff winning years?

Answer. Less than 2, and quite possibly 0. Because the parameters set forth here were never met by Noll, Cowher Tomlin. Other coaches fired before winning a Super Bowl by this criteria would be Belllichick, Bill Walsh ( posted losing seasons first two years, and 3 out of first 4) Weeb Eubank, Don Shula, ( both as a Colt and Dolphin coach) Pete Carroll just to name a few.

Outside of Vince Lombardi you would be hard pressed to find any coach you guys wouldn't have fired throughout the history of the game!. :pointlaugh:

[B&GFever]

I can play the conjecture game too. How many Super Bowls would the Steelers have if they fired their coach after consecutive losing seasons and or 3 straight non playoff years, or 4 straight non playoff winning years?

Answer. Less than 2, and quite possibly 0. Because the parameters set forth here were never met by Noll, Cowher Tomlin. Other coaches fired before winning a Super Bowl by this criteria would be Belllichick, Bill Walsh ( posted losing seasons first two years, and 3 out of first 4) Weeb Eubank, Don Shula, ( both as a Colt and Dolphin coach) Pete Carroll just to name a few.

Outside of Vince Lombardi you would be hard pressed to find any coach you guys wouldn't have fired throughout the history of the game!. :pointlaugh:


problem with the above is this isnt his first few years now is it .. he has put his stamp on this team and quite frankly the stamp read MEDIOCRITY

[Craic]

Except for the fact that none of those things happened at all after our last coaching change, or the one before that, I guess you have a good point ...
No? You mean, we didn't move from a "three yards and a cloud of mediocrity" Bill Cowher team to a pass-first, pass always team under Tomlin? And before you try to argue that we were shifting there under Cowher, Cowher was fleeing from the pass offense in 2004-6 due to the horrible 2003 season. It was a Tomlin brought in a distinct change of offense. One that was troubled by a front line used to a power running back (and yes, Cowher used Willy P. his last year, but he mailed it in that year as well). As for defense, we're now seeing a change that only didn't happen in Tomlin's first few years because we had a legendary Defensive Coordinator. The minute he's gone, our defense begins to change.

[Craic]

I'm sorry but finishing 8-8 and being the last team to miss the playoffs with a talented roster, explosive offense and franchise QB because the team lost to 2 or more garbage teams is not an accomplishment worth celebrating, maybe it would be noteworthy for a team with no talent that finished 3-13 the previous year but not a team with a QB this good in a passing league and a team with talent.

You're transposing team and year. In 2012, we had a roster that was bleeding talent due to age. Hampton was 35 and falling apart. Keisel was 34 and slowing down. Foote and Taylor were 32, and Troy P. was 31. Our defense was OLD. So no, they weren't loaded with talent. They were loaded with former great players in the twilight of their career.

Do we even need to talk about the O line?

[steelreserve]

No? You mean, we didn't move from a "three yards and a cloud of mediocrity" Bill Cowher team to a pass-first, pass always team under Tomlin? And before you try to argue that we were shifting there under Cowher, Cowher was fleeing from the pass offense in 2004-6 due to the horrible 2003 season. It was a Tomlin brought in a distinct change of offense. One that was troubled by a front line used to a power running back (and yes, Cowher used Willy P. his last year, but he mailed it in that year as well). As for defense, we're now seeing a change that only didn't happen in Tomlin's first few years because we had a legendary Defensive Coordinator. The minute he's gone, our defense begins to change.


Did you see a 3-5 year rebuilding period that rendered us non-competitive? Because that's what you're raising the alarm about. No, we won another championship with the same exact players.

Of course changes are going to happen over time. They happen all the time even with the same coach. All that really matters is that they're not stupid changes or stupid coaches.

[ALLD]

Tomlin has peaked and he is overpaid.

[lipps83]

I can play the conjecture game too. How many Super Bowls would the Steelers have if they fired their coach after consecutive losing seasons and or 3 straight non playoff years, or 4 straight non playoff winning years?

Answer. Less than 2, and quite possibly 0. Because the parameters set forth here were never met by Noll, Cowher Tomlin. Other coaches fired before winning a Super Bowl by this criteria would be Belllichick, Bill Walsh ( posted losing seasons first two years, and 3 out of first 4) Weeb Eubank, Don Shula, ( both as a Colt and Dolphin coach) Pete Carroll just to name a few.

Outside of Vince Lombardi you would be hard pressed to find any coach you guys wouldn't have fired throughout the history of the game!. :pointlaugh:

How many Super Bowls would the Steelers have won if they had drafted Tom Brady in 2000 instead of Cris Combs?

I say 5. They would have won in 2001, 2002, 2003. Cowher, bored with winning 3 Super Bowls after going 47-1 in the previous 3 seasons, at this point would have traded away Brady in a blockbuster 14 team, 78 player trade to put some competition back in the league. In the 2004 draft, Cowher would have been content with Tommy 'Auto' Maddox as his starting QB having showed some promise in mop up duty during blowouts (which there were plenty of over 3 years, minus the sole loss to expansion team Houston Texans, a game which resembled a three stooges episode).

In the 2004 draft, Cowher wanted to draft Shaun Andrews. However, he was overruled by Rooney, who preferred this strong armed QB out of a college nobody had heard of up to that point. Miami of Ohio.

The 2004 season would start with Maddox at QB, however he would have gotten hurt in the 2nd game against the Ravens. In steps this rookie QB, that Alan Faneca didn't want to play with, and proceeds to light up the league and leading the Steelers to a 15-1 record in his rookie season. They were outmatched however in the AFC Championship game against the New England Patriots. Tom Brady wanted revenge on his old team and his old coach and proceeds to throttle the Steelers having known all the defensive and offensive calls since he was on the team the previous 3 seasons. Hines Ward even comments after the game "they knew our calls".

In 2005 Cowher was pretty much bored with coaching and takes the Steelers to their 4th Super Bowl. In 2006 Cowher doesn't even show up. He spends the season standing on the sideline each game coming up with his Hall Of Fame speech and shuffling tunes on his new ipod. His most played track in the 2006 was the Pittsburgh Steelers Football Fight Song by Neil Gerjuoy and the Blitzburgh Ruff Ryders. You can hear the song at the link below.


https://youtu.be/lAk8y82i0OM

Despite not having a head coach during the 2006 season, the Steelers go 8-8 with a QB that was partially rebuilt with adamantium in the off season. After the last game of the season, Cowher was asked if he plans to be back the next season, he responds by saying that "I think I am going to take some time to become a TV star while I wait for my dream job, head coach of the Carolina Panthers, to open up".

The Rooney's are baffled by this betrayal. Even if Cowher did want to return they know they couldn't keep him since deep down he is a Carolina Panther fan. They are doubly pissed because they were part of the creation of the Rooney Rule a few years earlier forcing teams to interview minorities. They really wanted to promote Russ Grimm as coach but knowing they would look like hypocrites they bring in Mike Tomlin, a coach nobody had even heard of, obviously.

Tomlin goes on to win a Super Bowl in 2008 with Cowher's players (and Cowher ensures to annotate that in his Hall of Fame speech) but as Cowher's players dwindle down, the inadequacies of Tomlin start to show. The wins he does get is only due to having an elite QB.

That kid from Miami of Ohio.

Roethlisumthing.

[stillers4me]

How many Super Bowls would the Steelers have won if they had drafted Tom Brady in 2000 instead of Cris Combs?

Zero. He would have never have survived the Pittsburgh Oline.

[Shoes]

Zero. He would have never have survived the Pittsburgh Oline.

Isn't that the truth!

[Drazo85]

Zero. Because Cowher and Rooneys aren't cheaters.
Fixed.

[ALLD]

It will be interesting to see how delusional Tomlin is on Sunday. I hope he shaves because any playoff beard will be telling.

[43Hitman]

Delusional? For having a beard?

[smokin3000gt]

Delusional? For having a beard?


They'll find anything around here.. :heh:

[Craic]

Did you see a 3-5 year rebuilding period that rendered us non-competitive? Because that's what you're raising the alarm about. No, we won another championship with the same exact players.

Of course changes are going to happen over time. They happen all the time even with the same coach. All that really matters is that they're not stupid changes or stupid coaches.

Yes, I did see it. It happened between the 2011-13 seasons. It helps if you read what I posted, rather than skim and react. I said the change didn't happen right away because we had a legendary defensive coordinator and a very good defense at the time. When those players started retiring, we started reschemeing, which means different types of players. We simply had a strong enough defense over the first few years to backstop the changes on offense. Good luck with that happening again.

[Steel Peon]

Blaykrell (3 three headed monster of CB suck)
:chuckle: Now that's keeping it real.

[teegre]

Yes, I did see it. It happened between the 2011-13 seasons. It helps if you read what I posted, rather than skim and react. I said the change didn't happen right away because we had a legendary defensive coordinator and a very good defense at the time. When those players started retiring, we started reschemeing, which means different types of players. We simply had a strong enough defense over the first few years to backstop the changes on offense. Good luck with that happening again.

Cowher was a DC.
Tomlin was a DC.

Cowher inherited Rod Woodson, Dermontti Dawson, Carnel Lake, Greg Lloyd, Hardy Nickerson, Jerol Willians, Gerald Willians, Barry Foster, Meril Hoge, Eric Green...

Tomlin inherited Troy Polamalu, Ben Roethlisberger, James Farrior, Ike Taylor, Brett Keisel, Aaron Smith, Casey Hampton, Hines Ward...

(Here is where I'm going to catapult off of your post.)

In 1998-2000, as those aforementioned players began to move on/retire, Cowher had to rebuild. 7-9, 6-10, and 9-7.

In 2012-2014, as those aforementioned players began to move on/retire, Tomlin had to rebuild. 8-8, 8-8, and 11-5.

The 2001-2003 teams lacked consistency.
The 2015 team lacks consistency.

SUMMATION:
We are just getting out of the "rebuilding" period. Add a secondary, and this team will be contending for two (or three) SuperBowls in 2016-2020.

[polamalubeast]

Cowher was a DC.
Tomlin was a DC.

Cowher inherited Rod Woodson, Dermontti Dawson, Carnel Lake, Greg Lloyd, Hardy Nickerson, Jerol Willians, Gerald Willians, Barry Foster, Meril Hoge, Eric Green...

Tomlin inherited Troy Polamalu, Ben Roethlisberger, James Farrior, Ike Taylor, Brett Keisel, Aaron Smith, Casey Hampton, Hines Ward...

(Here is where I'm going to catapult off of your post.)

In 1998-2000, as those aforementioned players began to move on/retire, Cowher had to rebuild. 7-9, 6-10, and 9-7.

In 2012-2014, as those aforementioned players began to move on/retire, Tomlin had to rebuild. 8-8, 8-8, and 11-5.

The 2001-2003 teams lacked consistency.
The 2015 team lacks consistency.

SUMMATION:
We are just getting out of the "rebuilding" period. Add a secondary, and this team will be contending for two (or three) SuperBowls in 2016-2020.


The Steelers had missed the playoffs six times in seven years before Bill Cowher arrived and in his first season, the Steelers finished the season with a 11-5 record and the steelers have been a contender in the mid-90's despite a lack of QB.

[43Hitman]

The Steelers had missed the playoffs six times in seven years before Bill Cowher arrived and in his first season, the Steelers finished the season with a 11-5 record and the steelers have been a contender in the mid-90's despite a lack of QB.

Tomlin won a SB in his first season as a head coach?

[teegre]

The Steelers had missed the playoffs six times in seven years before Bill Cowher arrived and in his first season, the Steelers finished the season with a 11-5 record and the steelers have been a contender in the mid-90's despite a lack of QB.

True.

Those shitty years (1984-1988) allowed them to build up top-ten draft talents and/or Hall of Famers (e.g. Rod Woodson, Dermontti Dawson). When Cowher took over, that team was primed to explode.

As as far as QBs go, Cowher's philosophy was simple: great defense, great running game, hope your QB doesn't mess things up. It almost worked, too. Instead of spending $20 million per year on a QB, he spent it on defenders; it's why he passed on Brees and why he wanted to pass on Roethlisberger. For the 90s, it was a very logical philosophy... but, not for modern passing rules. For today's NFL, you need a QB.

[ALLD]

I think they will modify the rules again so second tier and younger QBs will be able to move the offense and not isolate teams who do not have an elite player.

[teegre]

I think they will modify the rules again so second tier and younger QBs will be able to move the offense and not isolate teams who do not have an elite player.

Indeed.

They'll call it: the "Obliterate Any & All Forms of Defense!!!" rule

[Hawkman]

Indeed.

They'll call it: the "Obliterate Any & All Forms of Defense!!!" rule

Sad, but possibly true.

[st33lersguy]

The Steelers had missed the playoffs six times in seven years before Bill Cowher arrived and in his first season, the Steelers finished the season with a 11-5 record and the steelers have been a contender in the mid-90's despite a lack of QB.

Also Cowher made the playoffs his first 6 seasons as an NFL head coach (Paul Brown is the only other coach to accomplish this). Tomlin can't even string together 3 consecutive playoff seasons.

[86WARD]

Cowher was a DC.
Tomlin was a DC.

Cowher inherited Rod Woodson, Dermontti Dawson, Carnel Lake, Greg Lloyd, Hardy Nickerson, Jerol Willians, Gerald Willians, Barry Foster, Meril Hoge, Eric Green...

Tomlin inherited Troy Polamalu, Ben Roethlisberger, James Farrior, Ike Taylor, Brett Keisel, Aaron Smith, Casey Hampton, Hines Ward...

(Here is where I'm going to catapult off of your post.)

In 1998-2000, as those aforementioned players began to move on/retire, Cowher had to rebuild. 7-9, 6-10, and 9-7.

In 2012-2014, as those aforementioned players began to move on/retire, Tomlin had to rebuild. 8-8, 8-8, and 11-5.

The 2001-2003 teams lacked consistency.
The 2015 team lacks consistency.

SUMMATION:
We are just getting out of the "rebuilding" period. Add a secondary, and this team will be contending for two (or three) SuperBowls in 2016-2020.

Good Post!!

[hawaiiansteeler]

SUMMATION:
We are just getting out of the "rebuilding" period. Add a secondary, and this team will be contending for two (or three) SuperBowls in 2016-2020.

we do need to add a secondary, imo the addition of a premier pass rusher is also needed if we are going to contend for Super Bowls in the near future...

[lipps83]

we do need to add a secondary, imo the addition of a premier pass rusher is also needed if we are going to contend for Super Bowls in the near future...

Yes. I think Dupree should be adequate and I would like to see them send Shazier at the QB more. We are still going to be a draft pick behind because Jarvis Jones is......well...he is Jarvis Jones.

Next draft should be 6 defenders and one offensive lineman. Dammit, I just remembered we are down two picks though. If Boykin re-upps, and I hope he does but have my doubts, that would be a bonus. CB/S/NT should be priorities. I think a better NT would free up the OLB's more and maybe Jones can have a career year with 3 sacks next season.

[hawaiiansteeler]

Yes. I think Dupree should be adequate and I would like to see them send Shazier at the QB more. We are still going to be a draft pick behind because Jarvis Jones is......well...he is Jarvis Jones.

Next draft should be 6 defenders and one offensive lineman. Dammit, I just remembered we are down two picks though. If Boykin re-upps, and I hope he does but have my doubts, that would be a bonus. CB/S/NT should be priorities. I think a better NT would free up the OLB's more and maybe Jones can have a career year with 3 sacks next season.

we should still have a total of 7 draft picks, a 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th and three 7s (our own, from the Giants for Brad Wing and a comp pick for Brice McCain).

so let's say we go CB/S/NT/OL the first four rounds, that leaves us three more picks in the 7th round that have a high probability of not even making the team.

[86WARD]

Yes. I think Dupree should be adequate and I would like to see them send Shazier at the QB more. We are still going to be a draft pick behind because Jarvis Jones is......well...he is Jarvis Jones.

Next draft should be 6 defenders and one offensive lineman. Dammit, I just remembered we are down two picks though. If Boykin re-upps, and I hope he does but have my doubts, that would be a bonus. CB/S/NT should be priorities. I think a better NT would free up the OLB's more and maybe Jones can have a career year with 3 sacks next season.

If they somehow, amazingly, find a way to talk Boykin in to signing in Pittsburgh and ridding them selves of Cockring and Blake, that is easily worth the 5th-Round Pick! They'll need to go to free agency somehow and pick a couple players (LBs, CBs, NTs, whatever) off of there to solidify the Defense. It won't happen through the draft alone.

[ALLD]

Also Cowher made the playoffs his first 6 seasons as an NFL head coach (Paul Brown is the only other coach to accomplish this). Tomlin can't even string together 3 consecutive playoff seasons.

Are you implying that Tomlin is living off his 2008 reputation and Cowher's players?

[hawaiiansteeler]

If they somehow, amazingly, find a way to talk Boykin in to signing in Pittsburgh and ridding them selves of Cockring and Blake, that is easily worth the 5th-Round Pick!

why would you want to re-sign the CB that can't even beat out Cockring, Blake and Gay for playing time? :stirthepot:

[steelreserve]

In 1998-2000, as those aforementioned players began to move on/retire, Cowher had to rebuild. 7-9, 6-10, and 9-7.

In 2012-2014, as those aforementioned players began to move on/retire, Tomlin had to rebuild. 8-8, 8-8, and 11-5.


In 2012-14, we had Ben Roethlisberger as our starting quarterback.

In 1998-2000, we had Kordell Stewart.

If Tomlin hadn't been the luckiest sonofabitch in the history of rookie coaches for inheriting a HOF quarterback with at least a dozen more high-level seasons left, you could throw a couple 4-12 seasons in there for sure. With the way we drafted Tomlin's first few years? Forget about staying competitive; we wouldn't have a prayer.

You want another lucky-as-hell rookie coach in that position? How about George Seifert. Was there a rebuilding period there where they mucked around in the 8-8 pigshit for a few years? No, they reloaded and kept rolling. THAT'S what a good coach does.

We had a golden opportunity to do the same and we missed it. Eventually a few things broke our way and we became more or less competitive again, but we're not there yet. That's what an average coach does.

[st33lersguy]

Are you implying that Tomlin is living off his 2008 reputation and Cowher's players?

No, I am not implying anything. Everything I am trying to communicate is shown in plain text

[Craic]

In 2012-14, we had Ben Roethlisberger as our starting quarterback.

In 1998-2000, we had Kordell Stewart.

If Tomlin hadn't been the luckiest sonofabitch in the history of rookie coaches for inheriting a HOF quarterback with at least a dozen more high-level seasons left, you could throw a couple 4-12 seasons in there for sure. With the way we drafted Tomlin's first few years? Forget about staying competitive; we wouldn't have a prayer.

You want another lucky-as-hell rookie coach in that position? How about George Seifert. Was there a rebuilding period there where they mucked around in the 8-8 pigshit for a few years? No, they reloaded and kept rolling. THAT'S what a good coach does.

We had a golden opportunity to do the same and we missed it. Eventually a few things broke our way and we became more or less competitive again, but we're not there yet. That's what an average coach does.

No, an average coach watches a team go 8-8 year after year. An average coach fails to win with 4th string QBs and almost half their starting O line gone. Average coaches coaching average teams look like the Dallas Cowboys when that happens.

Seifert? Really? In the years of no free agency where any team can build their players from within? Let's take a look at Seifert's record in Carolina.
1999 - 8-8
2000 - 7-9
2001 - 1-15
And the second year after he left, they were in the Superbowl. I'm not sure I'd be holding him up as a "brilliant coach" anymore than holding Tomlin up as a "Lucky rookie."

[polamalubeast]

I can not believe that some are satisfied with Tomlin despite missing the playoffs too many times despite a good team, especially in 2009 and this year and not have a playoff win since 2010.Tomlin would be great if he would have done the same thing with the Browns, but with the Steelers, it's not just enough especially since 2011.

I hope the Jets will lose and steelers will win today but it is very doubtful that the jets will lose against the Bills.

[teegre]

we do need to add a secondary, imo the addition of a premier pass rusher is also needed if we are going to contend for Super Bowls in the near future...

Absolutely.

I I am a huge proponent of focusing on the pass rush first, and the secondary second. It all starts with pressure.

That said, Jones is under contract for one more season; so, I see them waiting another draft before they use a premier pick on an OLB.

[teegre]

In 2012-14, we had Ben Roethlisberger as our starting quarterback.

In 1998-2000, we had Kordell Stewart.

If Tomlin hadn't been the luckiest sonofabitch in the history of rookie coaches for inheriting a HOF quarterback with at least a dozen more high-level seasons left, you could throw a couple 4-12 seasons in there for sure. With the way we drafted Tomlin's first few years? Forget about staying competitive; we wouldn't have a prayer.

You want another lucky-as-hell rookie coach in that position? How about George Seifert. Was there a rebuilding period there where they mucked around in the 8-8 pigshit for a few years? No, they reloaded and kept rolling. THAT'S what a good coach does.

We had a golden opportunity to do the same and we missed it. Eventually a few things broke our way and we became more or less competitive again, but we're not there yet. That's what an average coach does.

QUARTERBACKS:
As I said, as far as QBs go, Cowher's philosophy was simple: great defense, great running game, hope your QB doesn't mess things up. It almost worked, too. Instead of spending $20 million per year on a QB, he spent it on defenders; it's why he passed on Brees and why he wanted to pass on Roethlisberger. For the 90s, it was a very logical philosophy... but, not for modern passing rules. For today's NFL, you need a QB.

Also, you'all slam Tomlin for playing Vick in four games, but somehow Cowher gets a pass for starting Kordell for four years.

Likewise, you'all rip Tomlin for not addressing this team's weakness (secondary), but somehow ignore that Cowher refused to address his team's most glaring weakness (quarterback)... (although, as I said, Cowher had a different philosophy on that position).

REBUILDING:
This team had to be rebuilt, and during the last rebuild (1998-2000) it was far rougher than this rebuild was.

SUMMATION:
You have stated that even if Tomlin wins another Lombardi or two, you would never give him any credit for it. So, really, it doesn't matter what I type... your mind is already made up.

[hawaiiansteeler]

Absolutely.

I I am a huge proponent of focusing on the pass rush first, and the secondary second. It all starts with pressure.

That said, Jones is under contract for one more season; so, I see them waiting another draft before they use a premier pick on an OLB.

I agree with you, I think CB, S and OG/OT will all be higher priorities this upcoming draft.

[Mojouw]

I love how this works. Logic and reason have no place. It all boils down to this:

IF the Steelers WIN = the players are awesome!
IF the Steelers LOSE = the coaching staff shit the bed and wasted a talented group of players!

Huh? It is the same coaches when they win as when they lose. Same players as well. But I'm sure the gameplan was to have Roethlisberger, who apparently has been carrying Tomlin all these years, throw 3 picks. Because, Arrogance.

[smokin3000gt]

OMFG! Did you guys see Tomlin just fumble the ball?! He is going to lose this one for us for sure. This is what happens when Cowher's players are gone!


:stirthepot: :heh:

[86WARD]

No it's as simple as:

1 - The coaching staff putting the players in a position to succeed.
2 - The players then executing in a manner to (3) succeed.

When you can't complete step one because the coaching staff is too busy pounding their chest, you can't get to step two. If you get to step two and the players are too busy being full of themselves, you can't get to step 3.

[Mach1]

Why does Hailey insist on starting Blake week after week. :rolleyes:

[stillers4me]

https://scontent-ord1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpa1/v/t1.0-9/10620731_10153525541328800_4649507570360452449_n.j pg?oh=f31582e8e67ac1e301880876291eeff6&oe=570DBC04

[steelreserve]

SUMMATION:
You have stated that even if Tomlin wins another Lombardi or two, you would never give him any credit for it. So, really, [/COLOR][COLOR=#333333]it doesn't matter what I type... your mind is already made up.


Let's talk about that when we actually win the Super Bowl. I swear, some people act like that's already a done deal.

If we do win another Super Bowl at this point, I will shut up about firing Tomlin. If you actually win a championship, you can live with just about anything else. I sure as hell hope he shuts me up.

[hawaiiansteeler]

we should be more like the Browns and FIRE MIKE TOMLIN!! also...

Browns fire Mike Pettine, Ray Farmer in latest shake-up

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/browns/2016/01/03/mike-pettine-fired-cleveland-coach/78226444/

[zulater]

Let's talk about that when we actually win the Super Bowl. I swear, some people act like that's already a done deal.

If we do win another Super Bowl at this point, I will shut up about firing Tomlin. If you actually win a championship, you can live with just about anything else. I sure as hell hope he shuts me up.

Ahh you'll still claim it was with Cowher's qb, TE, OLB, and longsnapper. :wink02:

[86WARD]

Longsnapper being the key to that equation...

[Hawkman]

Guess we have to wait another year :rofl::rofl::rofl::

- - - Updated - - -

Can't seem to edit.

[teegre]

Let's talk about that when we actually win the Super Bowl. I swear, some people act like that's already a done deal.

If we do win another Super Bowl at this point, I will shut up about firing Tomlin. If you actually win a championship, you can live with just about anything else. I sure as hell hope he shuts me up.

Deal.

We'll reconvene this conversation at about 11:00 pm on February 7th. :wink02:

[tube517]

Ahh you'll still claim it was with Cowher's qb, TE, OLB, and longsnapper. :wink02:


Deebo counts as OLB and "backup" longsnapper for Cowher :nono: :lol:

[Psycho Ward 86]

Let's talk about that when we actually win the Super Bowl. I swear, some people act like that's already a done deal.

If we do win another Super Bowl at this point, I will shut up about firing Tomlin. If you actually win a championship, you can live with just about anything else. I sure as hell hope he shuts me up.

i feel the same way. kind of sums up how tom coughlin is still with the giants

[steelreserve]

Deal.

We'll reconvene this conversation at about 11:00 pm on February 7th. :wink02:


I don't really see it as a deal, so much as if you win a championship, you'd better shut up and take the bad with the good. We win another one, Tomlin's around until the end of Ben's career and probably a couple years more, unless he prefers diagnostic medicine.

As for Feb. 7th, I sure hope so. Although if the question of Pittsburgh winning the Super Bowl is still unsettled as of Feb. 7 - then whatever the outcome of that game, the odds of me being coherent enough at the end of it to remember what was said a month ago, let alone resume a conversation about it, are just about nil.



Ahh you'll still claim it was with Cowher's qb, TE, OLB, and longsnapper. :wink02:


Did that say TE when you originally posted it? Somewhere, Heath Miller is getting ready to piss all over your car ...

[Hawkman]

We could pick up Marty for the playoffs...if we get started now!!:lol::lol:

[polamalubeast]

In Green Bay, they also want Mike McCarthy be fired!

http://www.footballsfuture.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=573893&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

[tube517]

In Green Bay, they also want Mike McCarthy be fired!

http://www.footballsfuture.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=573893&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

:lol:

[Mojouw]

Let me make sure I have this correct. Anything less than a SB victory is unacceptable? By that standard there should be 31 or so coaching vacancies every year.

[polamalubeast]

Let me make sure I have this correct. Anything less than a SB victory is unacceptable? By that standard there should be 31 or so coaching vacancies every year.

I'm not in the mindset Super Bowl or bust, but if the steelers not win a playoff game this year, this season will be a disappointment.

[Drazo85]

If we the fans are making decisions Steelers would be worse than Browns.

[Hawkman]

If we the fans are making decisions Steelers would be worse than Browns.

Too true!

[lipps83]

Ahh you'll still claim it was with Cowher's qb, TE, OLB, and longsnapper. :wink02:

Could you really count Harrison as Cowher's though? Cowher cut him twice and he didn't start until Tomlin was coach.

All Harrison did for Cowher was save him from the lunatic Stain's fan, and Cowher's thanks to him was another two years on the bench.

I would put Harrison as a Tomlin player.

[steelreserve]

Let me make sure I have this correct. Anything less than a SB victory is unacceptable? By that standard there should be 31 or so coaching vacancies every year.


I mean, that's what the Tomlin supporters demand as a replacement, or else -- PFFFFT! Hell, even the Super Bowl winning coaches they thumb their noses at. Carroll? lol, wrong personality. Payton? lmao, look at the Saints now. Harbaugh? whiny. Coughlin? washed up. Belichick? never happen. McCarthy? nothing special. Cowher? don't even start. Gruden? never coming back, and too much of a dick.

Well, ok - there's every Super Bowl winning coach since 2000, and every active or potentially active one period; none of them are good enough. If anything, the standard of the pro-Tomlin crowd is way more ridiculous than the one his detractors hold him to.




Could you really count Harrison as Cowher's though? Cowher cut him twice and he didn't start until Tomlin was coach.

All Harrison did for Cowher was save him from the lunatic Stain's fan, and Cowher's thanks to him was another two years on the bench.

I would put Harrison as a Tomlin player.


They knew Harrison was good back then. The coaching staff and the players all talked about it. He was just stuck behind Joey Porter. And one of the reasons we let Porter walk.

[Mojouw]

I mean, that's what the Tomlin supporters demand as a replacement, or else -- PFFFFT! Hell, even the Super Bowl winning coaches they thumb their noses at. Carroll? lol, wrong personality. Payton? lmao, look at the Saints now. Harbaugh? whiny. Coughlin? washed up. Belichick? never happen. McCarthy? nothing special. Cowher? don't even start. Gruden? never coming back, and too much of a dick.

Well, ok - there's every Super Bowl winning coach since 2000, and every active or potentially active one period; none of them are good enough. If anything, the standard of the pro-Tomlin crowd is way more ridiculous than the one his detractors hold him to.

I wouldn't say that is true. It is more a reflection that the Tomlin bashers have a standard that NO coach in the NFL currently meets. I still don't have a clear statement of what Tomlin detractors are actually hoping for. Every discussion is met with vague replies about "arrogance" or "bs statements" or "not having his team ready to play" etc etc etc. But no actual tangible definable criteria for evaluation. It seems that the goalposts are constantly moved to ensure they are never reached or that their is simply, by some, an irrational need to hold the Steelers to an unattainable standard.

As for me, I have repeatedly said that I would seriously consider the swapping of Tomlin for Carrol or Belicheck and that I consider the remaining NFL Harbaugh a toss-up with Tomlin. I have never argued that none of the remaining above mentioned coaches are not good enough, but rather they are not demonstrably significantly better than Tomlin. If I have left the impression otherwise, then I have clearly over-stated things in an attempt to make a point.

Bottom line, I do not think that coaching is what is preventing the Pittsburgh Steelers from making more room in their trophy case.

[steelreserve]

I wouldn't say that is true. It is more a reflection that the Tomlin bashers have a standard that NO coach in the NFL currently meets. I still don't have a clear statement of what Tomlin detractors are actually hoping for. Every discussion is met with vague replies about "arrogance" or "bs statements" or "not having his team ready to play" etc etc etc. But no actual tangible definable criteria for evaluation. It seems that the goalposts are constantly moved to ensure they are never reached or that their is simply, by some, an irrational need to hold the Steelers to an unattainable standard.

As for me, I have repeatedly said that I would seriously consider the swapping of Tomlin for Carrol or Belicheck and that I consider the remaining NFL Harbaugh a toss-up with Tomlin. I have never argued that none of the remaining above mentioned coaches are not good enough, but rather they are not demonstrably significantly better than Tomlin. If I have left the impression otherwise, then I have clearly over-stated things in an attempt to make a point.

Bottom line, I do not think that coaching is what is preventing the Pittsburgh Steelers from making more room in their trophy case.


Well, we'll see how it turns out, if not this season then in the next two or three. If we win another championship doing it "Tomlin's way," then there really is not a lot to complain about; no matter how inane it seemed, whatever we were doing worked.

On the flip side, if we don't win at least one more title while Ben can still play, it would be an utter travesty and a huge wasted opportunity. I am somewhat concerned about that, but the direction this team takes this offseason will be the real test. It is all laid out for us - exactly what we need to do to in order to be the team to beat for the next few years - and it is not complicated, and not a stretch.

My concerns about Tomlin have been mostly about poor player development, and the seeming trend of taking ideas that don't work and continuing to bash away with them - that could be in terms of personnel, schemes, draft tendencies, all of the above. If that continues, we have a chance to blow this golden opportunity. If he makes the right moves, then it all flips around. Hopefully he proves the doubters wrong. Right now is not the time to dig into the nuts-and-bolts, just hope they can do exactly that.

[zulater]

Could you really count Harrison as Cowher's though? Cowher cut him twice and he didn't start until Tomlin was coach.

All Harrison did for Cowher was save him from the lunatic Stain's fan, and Cowher's thanks to him was another two years on the bench.

I would put Harrison as a Tomlin player.

Harrison would count himself as a "LeBeau"player if you asked him. I'm not sure he's overly fond of either Cowher or Tomlin truth be told.

[Hawkman]

We went 25 years without winning a Super Bowl, with only one appearance. The Steelers have won six Lombardi's with two QBs and three coaches. Tough to win it all in the NFL. Pats have four with one coach and one QB. Where do you think they will end up when one of them leaves. So many people here are NOW NOW NOW!!!! I like to look at the long term. As much as my blood pressure hates it, I love cheering for a team that is in it almost every week. That starts from the top. Rooneys, GM, Head Coach, Coordinators, Players. Best line I've heard from a player about Tomlin recently, was from Boykin saying that "he treats us like men". Guess he didn't get that from Kelly......Be nice when this thread moves to the bottom of the board.

[smokin3000gt]

We went 25 years without winning a Super Bowl, with only one appearance. The Steelers have won six Lombardi's with two QBs and three coaches. Tough to win it all in the NFL. Pats have four with one coach and one QB. Where do you think they will end up when one of them leaves. So many people here are NOW NOW NOW!!!! I like to look at the long term. As much as my blood pressure hates it, I love cheering for a team that is in it almost every week. That starts from the top. Rooneys, GM, Head Coach, Coordinators, Players. Best line I've heard from a player about Tomlin recently, was from Boykin saying that "he treats us like men". Guess he didn't get that from Kelly......Be nice when this thread moves to the bottom of the board.

I don't ever see that happening unless we went 19-0. Even then that would only last up until our first loss. Anything short of a SB win and you can expect this thread to be on fire. You would think by reading through this thread that this team is 3-13 year in and year out.

Lets say we did get a better coach in here than Tomlin, it will take at least a couple years of him being here to make any kind of noticeable difference . By the time his coaches and personnel are in place Big Ben would be at the end of his career so it would all be moot anyways. I think our best option at this point is to stay the course.

[86WARD]

Let me make sure I have this correct. Anything less than a SB victory is unacceptable? By that standard there should be 31 or so coaching vacancies every year.

How about win a playoff game or two instead of bailing out in round one to a less superior team?

[Mojouw]

How about win a playoff game or two instead of bailing out in round one to a less superior team?

That'll work as a standard. I think that 9-7 and better and a playoff win each season that Ben is the QB and the team stays healthy enough at key positions is a reasonable expectation. I do take issue with the "less superior" team portion. Tebow led Broncos? Sure. Ravens last year - a push at worst. Whether it is the noodle armed Ginger or the random dude with the hot wife leading the Bengals this year, I think they are a push as well - if not the better team (on paper) because of their defense.

[86WARD]

That'll work as a standard. I think that 9-7 and better and a playoff win each season that Ben is the QB and the team stays healthy enough at key positions is a reasonable expectation. I do take issue with the "less superior" team portion. Tebow led Broncos? Sure. Ravens last year - a push at worst. Whether it is the noodle armed Ginger or the random dude with the hot wife leading the Bengals this year, I think they are a push as well - if not the better team (on paper) because of their defense.

In my opinion the Steelers were better than the Ravens on paper and they are better than the Bengals this season mainly because the QB situation.

[GoSlash27]

I look at the state of the bottom- feeder teams at this time each year and think to myself "Thank God the Steelers don't pay attention to threads like this".
Firing people in response to disappointing performances is how you end up with the Browns.

[B&GFever]

I look at the state of the bottom- feeder teams at this time each year and think to myself "Thank God the Steelers don't pay attention to threads like this".
Firing people in response to disappointing performances is how you end up with the Browns.

no uprooting and entire franchise and taking it to another city and it changing its name , and Old City gets a startup franchise with no talent on the roster and has to start from scratch is how you get the Browns , then desperation and wanting to win and win now changing coaches , GMs and entire staffs every 2 years ( along with philosophies ) making players drafted a year or two ago missfits under the new regime and traded off for pennies on the $ is exactly how you get the Browns

[hawaiiansteeler]

https://scontent-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpf1/v/t1.0-9/12523042_10208531085780388_1734639526686674169_n.j pg?oh=ec192f795bcc8dc748d340c95fc08f5f&oe=57124274

[hawaiiansteeler]

Fire Marvin Lewis?

Blame Marvin Lewis for Cincinnati's out-of-control playoff meltdown

By: Chris Chase | January 10, 2016

https://usatftw.files.wordpress.com/2016/01/504218548_78753892.jpg?w=1000&h=666

Grown men are responsible for their own actions and, therefore, Vontaze Burfict and Adam Jones are to blame for their two stupid, dirty, dangerous and city-crushing penalties that completely handed the Pittsburgh Steelers a game the Steelers had already handed away. But this is Lewis’s team. They’re his men. And they played like clownish, dangerous buffoons for their coach, who showed he had no control over the team he’s been with for over 13 years. For that, Marvin Lewis’s time in Cincinnati should finally be up, four wild-card losses and one wild-card implosion later.

Things were chippy all night, stemming from years of rivalry and a game earlier this year that was equally as contentious. There were personal fouls, dirty hits, fans throwing bottles and an obvious sense that something bad was going to happen to one of these teams and it was likely to be the Bengals with Burfict as the cause. He was out of control. He was pushing over cameras for no reason. Jawing at everyone. Hitting just hard enough to cross the line between tough football and dirtiness. He needed to come out of the game before he lost it for the team that had improbably come back from a 15-0 deficit. But then Burfict did exactly that. It was completely bizarre: You knew Burifct was going to blow it, you just didn’t know how. And when he did, you just had to shrug and say “it was bound to happen.”

After a Pittsburgh interception with 1:50 remaining, the game looked locked up — Cincinnati’s first playoff win since 1990 — right up until Jeremy Hill fumbled the ball on Cincinnati’s first carry after the turnover. Ben Roethlisberger, who had exited the game earlier with a shoulder injury (caused by Burfict — which is why he stayed in the game; he’s a stud on the field), then returned, needing at least 50 yards to get his Steelers in position for a game-winning field goal. It quickly became clear Roethlisberger didn’t have the arm to make big plays, so a slow march it was. At that pace it appeared Pittsburgh might have the time to get into position, but the odds were going to be about as long as the kick.

Enter Vontaze Burfict.

https://usatftw.files.wordpress.com/2016/01/ap_steelers_bengals_football_78752942.jpg?w=1000&h=638

After a Roethlisberger pass to Antonio Brown was overthrown by about five yards, Burfict sprinted in, a good second or two after the play, headhunting all the way. He received a 15-yard penalty and was lucky not to be ejected. Later, Adam Jones touched a ref while trying to get involved in a scrum and gave away another 15 yards.(To be fair, Pacman’s penalty was touchy. He looked like he was going at Steelers assistant Joey Porter, not an official. Given the level of discourse during the game, it was a flag that could have been swallowed. But when you play like the Bengals did for 58 minutes and you have the history that Pacman does, you don’t get the benefit of the doubt.)

In all, the undisciplined Bengals gave Pittsburgh 30 yards and a chip-shot field goal to win. Those 30 yards weren’t going to be easy to come by, not with a quarterback who could barely lift his arm in a driving downpour. But the Steelers were handed them on a black and orange platter. A field goal later and it was 18-16 Steelers and, essentially, the game.

And now the 25-year playoff losing streak continues in Cincinnati and the man at the helm has to be to blame. Again, Burfict and Jones are the selfish children whose actions lost the game, but Marvin Lewis — a fine coach and a fine man — is the father figure who needed to make sure it didn’t happen. When you’ve lost control of your team, you’ve lost your team. Usually, your job comes next.

http://ftw.usatoday.com/2016/01/marvin-lewis-vontaze-burfict-cincinnati-bengals-loss-adam-jones-pittsburgh-steelers-fired

[7SteelGal43]

I look at the state of the bottom- feeder teams at this time each year and think to myself "Thank God the Steelers don't pay attention to threads like this".
Firing people in response to disappointing performances is how you end up with the Browns.

^ this.

[ALLD]

I have new respect for what Tomlin did to keep this team together. He will admit they weren't perfect, but I haven't seen anything like this since 2005.

After sleeping on it, Birthdefect is a danger to himself and to others. The NFL should give him plenty of time to get his life in order. He should not get on the field again to injure other players as a substitute for superior talent and professionalism.

[86WARD]

Tomlin did a pretty nice job keeping his players under control...he needs to work on the coaching staff...lol.

[GoSlash27]

I have new respect for what Tomlin did to keep this team together. He will admit they weren't perfect, but I haven't seen anything like this since 2005.

After sleeping on it, Birthdefect is a danger to himself and to others. The NFL should give him plenty of time to get his life in order. He should not get on the field again to injure other players as a substitute for superior talent and professionalism.

I'm sure that's the frustrating part for the Cincy organization and fans; Burfict has the talent and ability to be a true stud. He *could* be great, but he lacks discipline. What do you do with a guy like that? If you're the Bengals, you lose playoff games and make excuses.

[SteelerFanInStl]

I'm sure that's the frustrating part for the Cincy organization and fans; Burfict has the talent and ability to be a true stud. He *could* be great, but he lacks discipline. What do you do with a guy like that? If you're the Bengals, you lose playoff games and make excuses.

He doesn't just lack discipline. He's an out of control psychopath. That's why so many teams passed on him in the draft.

[st33lersguy]

Fire Marvin Lewis?

Blame Marvin Lewis for Cincinnati's out-of-control playoff meltdown

By: Chris Chase | January 10, 2016

https://usatftw.files.wordpress.com/2016/01/504218548_78753892.jpg?w=1000&h=666

Grown men are responsible for their own actions and, therefore, Vontaze Burfict and Adam Jones are to blame for their two stupid, dirty, dangerous and city-crushing penalties that completely handed the Pittsburgh Steelers a game the Steelers had already handed away. But this is Lewis’s team. They’re his men. And they played like clownish, dangerous buffoons for their coach, who showed he had no control over the team he’s been with for over 13 years. For that, Marvin Lewis’s time in Cincinnati should finally be up, four wild-card losses and one wild-card implosion later.

Things were chippy all night, stemming from years of rivalry and a game earlier this year that was equally as contentious. There were personal fouls, dirty hits, fans throwing bottles and an obvious sense that something bad was going to happen to one of these teams and it was likely to be the Bengals with Burfict as the cause. He was out of control. He was pushing over cameras for no reason. Jawing at everyone. Hitting just hard enough to cross the line between tough football and dirtiness. He needed to come out of the game before he lost it for the team that had improbably come back from a 15-0 deficit. But then Burfict did exactly that. It was completely bizarre: You knew Burifct was going to blow it, you just didn’t know how. And when he did, you just had to shrug and say “it was bound to happen.”

After a Pittsburgh interception with 1:50 remaining, the game looked locked up — Cincinnati’s first playoff win since 1990 — right up until Jeremy Hill fumbled the ball on Cincinnati’s first carry after the turnover. Ben Roethlisberger, who had exited the game earlier with a shoulder injury (caused by Burfict — which is why he stayed in the game; he’s a stud on the field), then returned, needing at least 50 yards to get his Steelers in position for a game-winning field goal. It quickly became clear Roethlisberger didn’t have the arm to make big plays, so a slow march it was. At that pace it appeared Pittsburgh might have the time to get into position, but the odds were going to be about as long as the kick.

Enter Vontaze Burfict.

https://usatftw.files.wordpress.com/2016/01/ap_steelers_bengals_football_78752942.jpg?w=1000&h=638

After a Roethlisberger pass to Antonio Brown was overthrown by about five yards, Burfict sprinted in, a good second or two after the play, headhunting all the way. He received a 15-yard penalty and was lucky not to be ejected. Later, Adam Jones touched a ref while trying to get involved in a scrum and gave away another 15 yards.(To be fair, Pacman’s penalty was touchy. He looked like he was going at Steelers assistant Joey Porter, not an official. Given the level of discourse during the game, it was a flag that could have been swallowed. But when you play like the Bengals did for 58 minutes and you have the history that Pacman does, you don’t get the benefit of the doubt.)

In all, the undisciplined Bengals gave Pittsburgh 30 yards and a chip-shot field goal to win. Those 30 yards weren’t going to be easy to come by, not with a quarterback who could barely lift his arm in a driving downpour. But the Steelers were handed them on a black and orange platter. A field goal later and it was 18-16 Steelers and, essentially, the game.

And now the 25-year playoff losing streak continues in Cincinnati and the man at the helm has to be to blame. Again, Burfict and Jones are the selfish children whose actions lost the game, but Marvin Lewis — a fine coach and a fine man — is the father figure who needed to make sure it didn’t happen. When you’ve lost control of your team, you’ve lost your team. Usually, your job comes next.

http://ftw.usatoday.com/2016/01/marvin-lewis-vontaze-burfict-cincinnati-bengals-loss-adam-jones-pittsburgh-steelers-fired

If Cincy ever wants to win a playoff game, they are going to have to fire Marvin. Marvin really is not a good coach. He and his team always melts in the biggest games and he has never had his team under control (look at the mid-00s with Ochosucko and all the arrests his team racked up)

[hawaiiansteeler]

If Cincy ever wants to win a playoff game, they are going to have to fire Marvin. Marvin really is not a good coach. He and his team always melts in the biggest games and he has never had his team under control (look at the mid-00s with Ochosucko and all the arrests his team racked up)

Report: Bengals have “no plans” to make coaching change

Posted by Josh Alper on January 10, 2016

https://nbcprofootballtalk.files.wordpress.com/2016/01/504212856-e1452462913928.jpg?w=248

The Bengals lost to the Steelers 18-16 on Saturday night in a game that they were leading late in the fourth quarter until a Jeremy Hill fumble and personal fouls on Vontaze Burfict and Adam Jones put Pittsburgh in position for a game-winning field goal.

The loss marked the fifth straight year that the Bengals have qualified for the playoffs and lost their first postseason game. It also made coach Marvin Lewis the first coach to ever lose his first seven postseason games. That record and the loss of composure by the team down the stretch led some to wonder if the Bengals might consider making a coaching change after 13 seasons with Lewis at the helm.

Adam Schefter of ESPN reports that there are “no plans” to make a coaching change at this time. Assuming that doesn’t change in the next few days, Lewis will be back to build on the 112-94 record he’s compiled with the Bengals when the next regular season gets underway in September.

Lewis may be doing that with a new offensive coordinator as Hue Jackson is considered a strong candidate to wind up with a head coaching job now that he’s free to interview with teams and accept any offers that might be coming his way.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2016/01/10/report-bengals-have-no-plans-to-make-coaching-change/

[hawaiiansteeler]

http://i931.photobucket.com/albums/ad158/taylorgc8/qmeme_1420405160399_109.jpg

[st33lersguy]

Report: Bengals have “no plans” to make coaching change

Posted by Josh Alper on January 10, 2016

https://nbcprofootballtalk.files.wordpress.com/2016/01/504212856-e1452462913928.jpg?w=248

The Bengals lost to the Steelers 18-16 on Saturday night in a game that they were leading late in the fourth quarter until a Jeremy Hill fumble and personal fouls on Vontaze Burfict and Adam Jones put Pittsburgh in position for a game-winning field goal.

The loss marked the fifth straight year that the Bengals have qualified for the playoffs and lost their first postseason game. It also made coach Marvin Lewis the first coach to ever lose his first seven postseason games. That record and the loss of composure by the team down the stretch led some to wonder if the Bengals might consider making a coaching change after 13 seasons with Lewis at the helm.

Adam Schefter of ESPN reports that there are “no plans” to make a coaching change at this time. Assuming that doesn’t change in the next few days, Lewis will be back to build on the 112-94 record he’s compiled with the Bengals when the next regular season gets underway in September.

Lewis may be doing that with a new offensive coordinator as Hue Jackson is considered a strong candidate to wind up with a head coaching job now that he’s free to interview with teams and accept any offers that might be coming his way.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2016/01/10/report-bengals-have-no-plans-to-make-coaching-change/

Good news for us

[Psycho Ward 86]

Report: Bengals have “no plans” to make coaching change

Posted by Josh Alper on January 10, 2016

https://nbcprofootballtalk.files.wordpress.com/2016/01/504212856-e1452462913928.jpg?w=248

The Bengals lost to the Steelers 18-16 on Saturday night in a game that they were leading late in the fourth quarter until a Jeremy Hill fumble and personal fouls on Vontaze Burfict and Adam Jones put Pittsburgh in position for a game-winning field goal.

The loss marked the fifth straight year that the Bengals have qualified for the playoffs and lost their first postseason game. It also made coach Marvin Lewis the first coach to ever lose his first seven postseason games. That record and the loss of composure by the team down the stretch led some to wonder if the Bengals might consider making a coaching change after 13 seasons with Lewis at the helm.

Adam Schefter of ESPN reports that there are “no plans” to make a coaching change at this time. Assuming that doesn’t change in the next few days, Lewis will be back to build on the 112-94 record he’s compiled with the Bengals when the next regular season gets underway in September.

Lewis may be doing that with a new offensive coordinator as Hue Jackson is considered a strong candidate to wind up with a head coaching job now that he’s free to interview with teams and accept any offers that might be coming his way.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2016/01/10/report-bengals-have-no-plans-to-make-coaching-change/

im cool with that :lol:

[ALLD]

Keep on losing too.

[86WARD]

Well winners win and losers lose. That's as simple as it gets.

[tube517]

If I was Hue Jackson, I would bail ASAP. GTFO dodge.

[polamalubeast]

As I already said, I'm not in the mindset super bowl or bust.

If the Steelers lose against Denver Sunday, I'll accept that, because if we consider that Ben may be limited and that Brown will maybe missed the game, the Broncos are a better team.Even healthy, that would be a big challenge.

But I'm glad we finally won a playoff game and I have hope that the steelers can go to the Super Bowl next season if they are healthy at the right time.

[tube517]

Love him or hate him....everybody has an opinion.

He didn't leave much for the reporters today.

686961291014057984

[hawaiiansteeler]

I look at the state of the bottom- feeder teams at this time each year and think to myself "Thank God the Steelers don't pay attention to threads like this".
Firing people in response to disappointing performances is how you end up with the Browns.

the Dolphins' recent hiring of Adam Gase gives them their 9th different head coach in the last 14 years.

meanwhile, we've had 3 different HC in the last 50 years...

[polamalubeast]

688055740880293889

[86WARD]

688055740880293889

I wont argue that...lol. If the Steelers win the Super Bowl, Tomlin should easily be coach of the year and get a lifetime deal...he would be immune to any of my criticism for as long as he's in Pittsburgh.

[86WARD]

Packers have lost seven playoff games under Mike McCarthy. Five of them were on the last play of the game.

[fansince'76]

Packers have lost seven playoff games under Mike McCarthy.

Hey, but getting there's good enough, right?

http://www.educationnews.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/participation_trophy.jpg

[86WARD]

Lol.

[polamalubeast]

Packers have lost seven playoff games under Mike McCarthy. Five of them were on the last play of the game.

Unlucky!

[43Hitman]

Hey, but getting there's good enough, right?

http://www.educationnews.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/participation_trophy.jpg
If my son brought something like that home, he'd help me burn it. [emoji38]

Sent from my SM-S920L using Tapatalk

[43Hitman]

Oh and quick question that's off topic. Are the ads I'm seeing in these threads a result of the Tapatalk app? They appear as posts, if that makes sense.

Sent from my SM-S920L using Tapatalk

[fansince'76]

Oh and quick question that's off topic. Are the ads I'm seeing in these threads a result of the Tapatalk app? They appear as posts, if that makes sense.

It must be, we don't post ads here.

[43Hitman]

It must be, we don't post ads here.
That's what I thought. Thanks.

Sent from my SM-S920L using Tapatalk

[86WARD]

Yes. That's what the "New" Tapatalk does. One of the reasons I still use the old app.

[smokin3000gt]

Welp... might as well blow the dust of this thread since it will light up if we lose today.



GURDDURMNIT TURMLUN!!!


:heh: :stirthepot:

[fansince'76]

Welp... might as well blow the dust of this thread since it will light up if we lose today.



GURDDURMNIT TURMLUN!!!


:heh: :stirthepot:

Yep. We haven't been to an AFCCG in five whole years!!!

[hawaiiansteeler]

Yep. We haven't been to an AFCCG in five whole years!!!

meanwhile, the genius Bill Belicheat has taken his team to every AFCCG the last 5 years...:stirthepot:

[tube517]

This is Cowhers QB TE OLB and long snapper. How does Tomlin get blame or credit? [emoji38] :stirthepot:

Sent from my LGMS631 using Tapatalk

[fansince'76]

meanwhile, the genius Bill Belicheat has taken his team to every AFCCG the last 5 years...:stirthepot:

That's enough outta you, TeeTee. :chuckle:

[Mojouw]

Packers have lost seven playoff games under Mike McCarthy. Five of them were on the last play of the game.

Obviously, McCarthy does not have his team mentally tough enough to close out games against inferior opponents. Clearly, he should be fired.

[smokin3000gt]

http://cdn.meme.am/instances/55258609.jpg

[ALLD]

Win or lose the Steelers went farther than anybody expected because of all the suspensions and injuries.

[fansince'76]

Win or lose the Steelers went farther than anybody expected because of all the suspensions and injuries.

That still won't be enough for some...

[86WARD]

Much farther than I thought. I'm happy with the season. Will be upset if they lose here, but all in all, it was a good season...especially seeing what they went through this season.

[fansince'76]

Already saw a newbie blame Tomlin in the game thread. :coffee:

[Terrapinstation]

Up 1 in the 4th qtr. Pass up a 50yd FG, in order to take 12 yds of field position. Fucking brilliant

[SteelerFanInStl]

Tomlin should've kicked the FG in the 3rd, but I put the blame on Toussaint and Haley.

The defense played great.

[fansince'76]

Up 1 in the 4th qtr. Pass up a 50yd FG, in order to take 12 yds of field position. Fucking brilliant

Uh, they scored a fucking TD off of the fumble anyway. 3 points does about jack shit there.

[Terrapinstation]

If you don't give your kicker a chance at a 50yd FG (twice), then you're simply playing not to lose. Fucking joke

[polamalubeast]

Tomlin is a great coach when his team is big underdog!

Just need to win the game than the steelers are huge favorite.

[Terrapinstation]

Uh, they scored a fucking TD off of the fumble anyway. 3 points does about jack shit there.

You're right, he's an awesome coach. How many punts can Wheaton muff before he's taken out of there? How about the 3 straight runs after the one muff? Dude coached not to lose, and naturally when you do that, you lose

- - - Updated - - -

Media: "Coach, are you proud of your players?"
Media: "Coach, what's your favorite food?"
Media: "Coach, you gotta feel good about next year right?"

[st33lersguy]

Tomlin has his faults and his allowing of the team to play down to Baltimore almost cost his team a playoff spot, but you got to give him some credit for this team making it this far

[salamander]

I simply cannot put the blame on Tomlin tonight.

[fansince'76]

You're right, he's an awesome coach. How many punts can Wheaton muff before he's taken out of there? How about the 3 straight runs after the one muff? Dude coached not to lose, and naturally when you do that, you lose

- - - Updated - - -

Media: "Coach, are you proud of your players?"
Media: "Coach, what's your favorite food?"
Media: "Coach, you gotta feel good about next year right?"

And where were you last week? You know what's a real joke? Yinzer assholes who only come out to piss and moan about Tomlin like you do after losses. It's weak sauce and I'm beyond fucking sick of it.

[steelerdude15]

Tomlin is a good coach. He did his job well tonight. The players didn't.

[43Hitman]

And where were you last week? You know what's a real joke? Yinzer assholes who only come out to piss and moan like you do after losses. I'm beyond fucking sick of it.
A-fucking-men. Bunch whiney cowards.

Sent from my SM-S920L using Tapatalk

[zulater]

I give Tomlin and staff a solid B+ for the season.

[Terrapinstation]

And where were you last week? You know what's a real joke? Yinzer assholes who only come out to piss and moan about Tomlin like you do after losses. It's weak sauce and I'm beyond fucking sick of it.

Aww, are you related to Tomlin? Care to answer why your hero chose to punt twice instead of trying for 6 pts? He didn't offer an explanation. Maybe you can.

[43Hitman]

The tears are a flowing. Lmao

Sent from my SM-S920L using Tapatalk

[zulater]

Tomlin is a good coach. He did his job well tonight. The players didn't.

Actually with only a handfull of exceptions the players did do their job. The likelyhood of us winning the game came down to one play. One man's mistake. Simple.

But at the same token I give Tomlin, Haley and Butler credit for having us in a position to win.

[ALLD]

I thought the first quarter was bad due to several reasons including the obvious poor punting and most likely, deep audibles by BB, but Tomlin showed up. He might have kicked the long FG, but the way the game was going we had the win as long as there was no fumble.

[Edman]

Mike Tomlin gets a B grade for the season.

The Steelers weren't supposed to be where they are, but they got there.

[Shoes]

I give Tomlin and staff a solid B+ for the season.

I'd agree with that and I'm not a Tomlin fan.

[Hawkman]

A-fucking-men. Bunch whiney cowards.

Sent from my SM-S920L using Tapatalk

Thanks both of you!!

[st33lersguy]

If anything, I give Tomlin credit for his team fighting hard enough to be in position to win, short-handed in Denver.

[fansince'76]

Aww, are you related to Tomlin? Care to answer why your hero chose to punt twice instead of trying for 6 pts? He didn't offer an explanation. Maybe you can.

There were strong wind gusts in that stadium ALL DAY, genius, which made a 50+ yarder a risk. And you'd be bitching even louder if Boswell missed them than you are now. Piss off.

[SteelMayhem72]

Ok we can stop with the Fire Tomlin thread please...I will say this and I'll admit I was on that bandwagon early in the season...I think Tomlin and the coaching staff did a tremendous job this year with all the injuries to keep plugging and playing. If we had a relatively healthy team all year I do think this is a superbowl team. Also did all of this with the toughest schedule in the NFL...pretty damn impressive. Our defense played very well today!!!

[Shoes]

Heck, if Tomlin and Colbert draft Kenny Clark in the 1st, I might jump back on their wagon. :chuckle:

[smokin3000gt]

Aww, are you related to Tomlin? Care to answer why your hero chose to punt twice instead of trying for 6 pts? He didn't offer an explanation. Maybe you can.

derp.

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Ok we can stop with the Fire Tomlin thread please...I will say this and I'll admit I was on that bandwagon early in the season...I think Tomlin and the coaching staff did a tremendous job this year with all the injuries to keep plugging and playing. If we had a relatively healthy team all year I do think this is a superbowl team. Also did all of this with the toughest schedule in the NFL...pretty damn impressive. Our defense played very well today!!!

Negative. This thread will live forever.

[zoneblitzerII]

Good on Tomlin getting his team to compete with toughness and character today. He does get the most out of these guys when they're short-handed. They were the better team and should've won.

[Terrapinstation]

There were strong wind gusts in that stadium ALL DAY, genius, which made a 50+ yarder a risk. And you'd be bitching even louder if Boswell missed them than you are now. Piss off.

Genius? Of course it's a risk. You're an underdog on the road, with an injured team. you have to take risks in order to win. we played not to lose (as usual), and lost.

[fansince'76]

Genius? Of course it's a risk. You're an underdog on the road, with an injured team. you have to take risks in order to win. we played not to lose (as usual), and lost.

We were AHEAD on the scoreboard at the time. Because of the unpredictable (and often quite strong) gusts of wind, the game became one of field position. Missing a 50-yarder puts the Broncos on their own 40-yard line.

See how that works?

If Berry could punt worth a damn, he'd have pinned them deep in their own end instead of booting it into the end zone for a touchback.

[zulater]

Good on Tomlin getting his team to compete with toughness and character today. He does get the most out of these guys when they're short-handed. They were the better team and should've won.

Good post! :applaudit:

[hawaiiansteeler]

Good on Tomlin getting his team to compete with toughness and character today. He does get the most out of these guys when they're short-handed. They were the better team and should've won.

agreed.

anyone who blames Mike Tomlin for today's loss merely has an agenda and is not worth arguing with...

[Hawkman]

derp.

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Negative. This thread will live forever.
...and you'll be just the one to bring it up.......just to keep stirring the shit.:chuckle:

[Terrapinstation]

We were AHEAD on the scoreboard at the time. Because of the unpredictable (and often quite strong) gusts of wind, the game became one of field position. Missing a 50-yarder puts the Broncos on their own 40-yard line.

See how that works?

If Berry could punt worth a damn, he'd have pinned them deep in their own end instead of booting it into the end zone for a touchback.

Guess the wind wasn't blowing for Mcmanus's 5 FGs.

Our punter can't punt worth a damn. That was obvious after the 1st quarter, and all the more reason to kick the FGs

[fansince'76]

Guess the wind wasn't blowing for Mcmanus's 5 FGs.

Our punter can't punt worth a damn. That was obvious after the 1st quarter, and all the more reason to kick the FGs

Yup, all 5 50-yarders he kicked. :rolleyes:

Again, they were BEHIND on the scoreboard. It's a different dynamic.

[fansince'76]

anyone who blames Mike Tomlin for today's loss merely has an agenda and is not worth arguing with...

Actually, you're right.

[tube517]

derp.

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Negative. This thread will live forever.

LMAO

[zulater]

Actually, you're right.

But of course blaming Haley is perfectly reasonable.

[43Hitman]

The only complaint I have isn't even about Tomlin. Everyone in that damn stadium knows that Manning gave himself up on that blitz, but somehow the refs allowed him to get up and throw the ball. Completely screwed the pooch on that one, I'm sure we'll get an apology letter from the NFL.

Sent from my SM-S920L using Tapatalk

[fansince'76]

But of course blaming Haley is perfectly reasonable.

Did I say Haley lost us this game? No. I've made my stance on Haley clear - we could do better in the OC department. Why is Haley beyond reproach after Arians was made the scapegoat for everything that went wrong (on offense AND defense) during his 5 years as OC?

[43Hitman]

Those damn WR screens to Bryant have to go. :stirthepot: :chuckle :

Sent from my SM-S920L using Tapatalk

[86WARD]

Up 1 in the 4th qtr. Pass up a 50yd FG, in order to take 12 yds of field position. Fucking brilliant

Wasn't a terrible call there. The defense was playing well all game. The Broncos offense was crap. There's no guarantee, with that wind, that Boz makes that kick. If Berry can pin them deep, it's a great call and he's been pretty good at doing that this season. Can't blame Tomlin there...it's a decent call.

[Rotorhead]

Yeah, he definitely game himself up, but what can you do. I thought Tomlin made some good decisions, I understand the go for it idea, and Heath was open for the 1st, Wheaton has to bring that ball down. With AB for DW we win that game hands down. The worst part is I don't see the Broncos beating the Cheats with the way they are playing, I think we have a better chance to win that game.

[86WARD]

The only complaint I have isn't even about Tomlin. Everyone in that damn stadium knows that Manning gave himself up on that blitz, but somehow the refs allowed him to get up and throw the ball. Completely screwed the pooch on that one, I'm sure we'll get an apology letter from the NFL.

Sent from my SM-S920L using Tapatalk

Yeah...I don't get that...

SO many botched calls by the officials this season.

[Hawkman]

Wasn't a terrible call there. The defense was playing well all game. The Broncos offense was crap. There's no guarantee, with that wind, that Boz makes that kick. If Berry can pin them deep, it's a great call and he's been pretty good at doing that this season. Can't blame Tomlin there...it's a decent call.

Thought the same thing at the time.

[zulater]

Did I say Haley lost us this game? No. I've made my stance on Haley clear - we could do better in the OC department. Why is Haley beyond reproach after Arians was made the scapegoat for everything that went wrong (on offense AND defense) during his 5 years as OC?


That didn't happen. Just you, Marianne and XT were super sensitive to any and all criticism of Arians. Yeah like all OC's throughout the league he frequently got called on the carpet when things don't go well. And let's not forget that the defense was the driving until on most of Arians teams. Some of it was personnel. Well most of it was. We had crappy rb's and worse O-lines. How much of that was on Arians? I really don;t know? But the fact is some of the most inept offensive performances I've ever seen came with BA as OC. So of course fans on a message board would react.

[fansince'76]

That didn't happen. Just you, Marianne and XT were super sensitive to any and all criticism of Arians. Yeah like all OC's throughout the league he frequently got called on the carpet when things don't go well. And let's not forget that the defense was the driving until on most of Arians teams. Some of it was personnel. Well most of it was. We had crappy rb's and worse O-lines. How much of that was on Arians? I really don;t know? But the fact is some of the most inept offensive performances I've ever seen came with BA as OC. So of course fans on a message board would react.

But Arians' team is still playing and we're not. Yeah, I thought Arians got a raw deal from the fans, you're damn right. The 2009 Raiders game really took the cake. Bruce Gradkowski throws 3 4th quarter TDs, with 2 of them going to a nobody named Louis Murphy, including the go-ahead TD to win with less than a minute left on the clock and Arians got the blame! Unreal!

[blackngold8766]

agreed.

anyone who blames Mike Tomlin for today's loss merely has an agenda and is not worth arguing with...


Its the AFC semi final. It shouldnt require much to get these guys excited to compete. Its the games in the middle of the season where he needs to get them to play. Todays game isn't exclusively on the coach but his decision making once again comes into question. Not kicking those fg's in that altitude comes back to bite him. If this was the first time it would be bad luck but his poor decisions have become a pattern.

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Thought the same thing at the time.

I disagree. Only up by one point and potential net difference was 20 yds. Potential net gain was two scores with defense playing well. Also since D was playing well giving up poor field position would not have been end of the world. Easy to say now of course but thought he should have tried both fg attempts

[fansince'76]

Its the AFC semi final. It shouldnt require much to get these guys excited to compete. Its the games in the middle of the season where he needs to get them to play. Todays game isn't exclusively on the coach but his decision making once again comes into question. Not kicking those fg's in that altitude comes back to bite him. If this was the first time it would be bad luck but his poor decisions have become a pattern.

2 FGs = 6 points. We lost by 7. :noidea:


I disagree. Only up by one point and potential net difference was 20 yds.

How so? Most NFL punters can at least pin them inside the 10, and in many cases inside the 5. Berry did manage to get it right and pin them very deep once in that game. 20/20 hindsight is wonderful, isn't it?

[Mojouw]

I really think that we need to stop bringing ideas from Madden football to arguments about the actual NFL. It was a field position game. You have the punter who was one of the best in the league in pinning teams deep in shorter placement punt situations ALL year. Look it up. It is a stat and everything. You have rookie placekicker with a strong leg. But a rookie on the road in adverse conditions. What the home team kicker was able to do is not a good analogy for what Boz may or may not have been able to do.

Long story short, the Steelers played a defense and field position game all day. They most likely would have won, except they lost the turnover battle.

[zulater]

But Arians' team is still playing and we're not. Yeah, I thought Arians got a raw deal from the fans, you're damn right. The 2009 Raiders game really took the cake. Bruce Gradkowski throws 3 4th quarter TDs, with 2 of them going to a nobody named Louis Murphy, including the go-ahead TD to win with less than a minute left on the clock and Arians got the blame! Unreal!

Arians didn't lose his best wr and two best rb's and starting LT and All Pro center either. And Palmer played every game. So I wouldn't make too much of it.

[Hawkman]

I really think that we need to stop bringing ideas from Madden football to arguments about the actual NFL. It was a field position game. You have the punter who was one of the best in the league in pinning teams deep in shorter placement punt situations ALL year. Look it up. It is a stat and everything. You have rookie placekicker with a strong leg. But a rookie on the road in adverse conditions. What the home team kicker was able to do is not a good analogy for what Boz may or may not have been able to do.

Long story short, the Steelers played a defense and field position game all day. They most likely would have won, except they lost the turnover battle.

Damn, Mojouw, stop making so much sense....people here don't want to listen to that.:heh:

[Mojouw]

Damn, Mojouw, stop making so much sense....people here don't want to listen to that.:heh:

I know! What was I thinking?!

[fansince'76]

Arians didn't lose his best wr and two best rb's and starting LT and All Pro center either. And Palmer played every game. So I wouldn't make too much of it.

I just think it's funny how Whisenhunt was made out to be such a genius and Arians such a bumbling fool by many Steelers fans when Arians' Cardinals teams have performed far and away better than Whisenhunt's ever did, one fluke Super Bowl appearance when Fitz was playing out of his mind notwithstanding.

[86WARD]

I really think that we need to stop bringing ideas from Madden football to arguments about the actual NFL. It was a field position game. You have the punter who was one of the best in the league in pinning teams deep in shorter placement punt situations ALL year. Look it up. It is a stat and everything. You have rookie placekicker with a strong leg. But a rookie on the road in adverse conditions. What the home team kicker was able to do is not a good analogy for what Boz may or may not have been able to do.

Long story short, the Steelers played a defense and field position game all day. They most likely would have won, except they lost the turnover battle.

AGREE 100%

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I just think it's funny how Whisenhunt was made out to be such a genius and Arians such a bumbling fool by many Steelers fans when Arians' Cardinals teams have performed far and away better than Whisenhunt's ever did, one fluke Super Bowl appearance when Fitz was playing out of his mind notwithstanding.

Remember there was a stage where people were calling for more "trick" plays when Arians was OC? lol...

[zulater]

I just think it's funny how Whisenhunt was made out to be such a genius and Arians such a bumbling fool by many Steelers fans when Arians' Cardinals teams have performed far and away better than Whisenhunt's ever did, one fluke Super Bowl appearance when Fitz was playing out of his mind notwithstanding.

Arians is a better head coach than he was a Steelers OC. Simple. I was never a huge critic or fan of his. He helped Ben get better, but they hit the proverbial wall as a coach qb. I think Ben has grown into a better qb under Haley.

[hawaiiansteeler]

very classy comments by Tomlin:

Mike Tomlin: “Peyton’s the ultimate play caller”

Posted by Michael David Smith on January 17, 2016

https://nbcprofootballtalk.files.wordpress.com/2016/01/505428540.jpg?w=250

Broncos quarterback Peyton Manning did not have a particularly good day throwing the ball in today’s win over the Steelers, but he did engineer a game-winning touchdown drive in the fourth quarter, and Steelers coach Mike Tomlin said afterward that that’s par for the course when facing Peyton.

Tomlin said that Manning’s ability to read the Steelers’ defense and audible at the line of scrimmage makes things difficult, and is why the Broncos went with Manning over Brock Osweiler.

“Peyton’s the ultimate play caller. He got them in some good checks and did a nice job. We got to a point in the game where we had to take some calculated risks, and that’s why, I’m sure, that they started him,” Tomlin said.

Physically, Manning is nowhere near the same quarterback as he was in his prime, when he won an NFL record five regular-season MVP awards. But Manning still has the mental ability to see the field like few quarterbacks do. In that late fourth-quarter drive, the Steelers found that out the hard way.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2016/01/17/mike-tomlin-peytons-the-ultimate-play-caller/

[st33lersguy]

I think every steeler fan trying to defend Arians' tenure as Steelers OC should be reminded of that stupid playcall at the end of their divisional game that gave Rodgers enough time to tie the game up. He was fired because his playcalls were dumb and unimaginative. Remember 5 wide shotgun on 3rd and short in the wind and cold against Cleveland? Plus the offense is doing better under Haley than it ever did under Arians and his kindergarten level playcalling, and anyone who wants to point to personnel should be reminded that in 2012, Ben was having a career year with a crappy O-line, no clear no. 1 RB, and AB being held back by Mike "I only care about money" Wallace before he getting injured.

[fansince'76]

Plus the offense is doing better under Haley than it ever did under Arians and his kindergarten level playcalling, and anyone who wants to point to personnel should be reminded that in 2012, Ben was having a career year with a crappy O-line, no clear no. 1 RB, and AB being held back by Mike "I only care about money" Wallace before he getting injured.

Sure, ever since Munchak was brought on board and Bell and Bryant broke out in 2014. Before that? Not so much.

In Arians' last year (2011), they were 21st in the league in scoring. In 2012, they ranked 22nd. In 2013, they ranked 20th.

[st33lersguy]

Sure, ever since Munchak was brought on board and Bell and Bryant broke out in 2014. Before that? Not so much.

In Arians' last year (2011), they were 21st in the league in scoring. In 2012, they ranked 22nd. In 2013, they ranked 20th.

2012 Ben was having a career year before getting injured (plus AB missed time that year), 2013 the offense started slow largely due to an early season injury to Pouncey and Bell missing time due to a foot injury. Plus this year Bell, Ben, Bryant, Beachum, and Pouncey all missed at least 4 games and Michael Vick and Landry Jones accounted for 4 starts, yet the offense still finished 3rd in the NFL. And the offense got rolling the 2nd half of the year without Bell, Pouncey, Beachum, and with Bryant hitting a slump. Todd Haley is not perfect, but he gets more out of Ben than Arians ever did.

[Count Steeler]

25 pages. Might be time to close this thread and start a new one when we lose our first game next year. Heck, it may even start in the preseason.

Overall, good job Mike. We went further with less than I had hoped for when the season started. Let's shore up the D and go on a SB run before Ben retires. You have managed to rebuild this team without a losing season. Injuries? Unbelievable. However, we were one of the 8 teams left standing and very close to being 1 of the 4. Thanks Mike.

[Mojouw]

Sure, ever since Munchak was brought on board and Bell and Bryant broke out in 2014. Before that? Not so much.

In Arians' last year (2011), they were 21st in the league in scoring. In 2012, they ranked 22nd. In 2013, they ranked 20th.

Shhh! That gets in the way of the narrative.

Arians got too much blame and now so does Haley. For instance, on the 4th down play yesterday - who decided to go for it all, Haley or Ben? I suspect it was Ben, but we will never know.

Arians and Haley called the plays this season for the two most explosive offenses in the league. Haley also called the plays for those Cardinals squads that lit things up under Warner. Arians made Kelly Holcomb a 4,000 yard passer.

Both guys know their way around an offense.

[Mojouw]

Looks like Arians is up to his old tricks: (http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2608102-monday-morning-hangover-afc-and-nfc-finalists-all-have-their-flaws)

Vulnerability: The Cardinals red-zone offense is not up to championship snuff. The Cardinals settled for two field goals and an interception on three of their six red-zone trips Saturday night. For the season, they ranked 12th in the NFL with a 54.72 percent touchdown conversion rate in the red zone, according to NFLGSIS.com (http://www.nflgsis.com/) (subscription required).
Ranking 12th isn't terrible, but the Cardinals ranked in the top five in most offensive categories. When they reached the red zone, their lack of a short-yardage running game and the fact that their offense is built on stretching the defense vertically forced them to settle for too many field goals. You don't beat the Panthers by settling for a bunch of field goals.

I think it was the above issue and the QB hits that got him canned. That and he was sorta a scapegoat.

[zulater]

Shhh! That gets in the way of the narrative.

Arians got too much blame and now so does Haley. For instance, on the 4th down play yesterday - who decided to go for it all, Haley or Ben? I suspect it was Ben, but we will never know.

Arians and Haley called the plays this season for the two most explosive offenses in the league. Haley also called the plays for those Cardinals squads that lit things up under Warner. Arians made Kelly Holcomb a 4,000 yard passer.

Both guys know their way around an offense.

I think Tomlin makes that call. The OC and qb are obviously ready to go with what the head coach decides. Maybe I'm wrong. But I thought it was a given that Tomlin makes the call based on his feel for the game at the time. That's not to say that if 7 or Haley show clear enthusiasm that in certain situations they don't influence him.

Regardless I think I would have gone for the fg in the first quarter and punted in the 4th as Tomlin did. But you can;t fault what he did, particularly in the 1st quarter. Ben had an easy check down to Heath that would have more than netted the first down had he chosen to go with it. And in my opinion 11 clearly was interfered with in the end zone. If that call was made the Steelers would have had first and goal at the one and no one would be complaining about going for it or the play call.

[Mojouw]

I think Tomlin makes that call. The OC and qb are obviously ready to go with what the head coach decides. Maybe I'm wrong. But I thought it was a given that Tomlin makes the call based on his feel for the game at the time. That's not to say that if 7 or Haley show clear enthusiasm that in certain situations they don't influence him.

Regardless I think I would have gone for the fg in the first quarter and punted in the 4th as Tomlin did. But you can;t fault what he did, particularly in the 1st quarter. Ben had an easy check down to Heath that would have more than netted the first down had he chosen to go with it. And in my opinion 11 clearly was interfered with in the end zone. If that call was made the Steelers would have had first and goal at the one and no one would be complaining about going for it or the play call.

That is likely right. I just feel that sometimes Tomlin authorizes the call to go for it on 4th down. Then Haley calls a play. And then Ben gets all googly eyed at a WR he thinks is open deep rather than the underneath guy at the sticks. I just wonder what the "primary" read on some of those play calls is. Like when they talk about it in the meeting room are Tomlin, Haley, and Ben all on the same page that it is the endzone route first and everything else second or is Ben doing that on the fly?

Not that I expect anyone to know the answer(s) to that, but I would be super interested in knowing. It totally changes the complexion of some of those aggressive play-calls over the course of the season. Like did Tomlin think that they were going to go for the conversion and then when Ben comes back to the sidelines, he's like WTF? Or does the team have a fundamental philosophy of always green-lighting the deep ball?

Bad analogy, but bear with me. In baseball some guys get given the okay to steal regardless of game situation or match-up and w/out needing a signal from the coaching staff. Does Ben have that same latitude with the deep ball in 3rd and 4th down situations? Or does he just know that no one is going to question it?

[steelreserve]

I just think it's funny how Whisenhunt was made out to be such a genius and Arians such a bumbling fool by many Steelers fans when Arians' Cardinals teams have performed far and away better than Whisenhunt's ever did, one fluke Super Bowl appearance when Fitz was playing out of his mind notwithstanding.

Arians is a much better head coach than an offensive coordinator. Whisenhunt was a much better coordinator than a head coach. A couple other guys named Haley and Munchak have the same thing going on. That's all there is to that.

[st33lersguy]

Looks like Arians is up to his old tricks: (http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2608102-monday-morning-hangover-afc-and-nfc-finalists-all-have-their-flaws)

Vulnerability: The Cardinals red-zone offense is not up to championship snuff. The Cardinals settled for two field goals and an interception on three of their six red-zone trips Saturday night. For the season, they ranked 12th in the NFL with a 54.72 percent touchdown conversion rate in the red zone, according to NFLGSIS.com (http://www.nflgsis.com/) (subscription required).
Ranking 12th isn't terrible, but the Cardinals ranked in the top five in most offensive categories. When they reached the red zone, their lack of a short-yardage running game and the fact that their offense is built on stretching the defense vertically forced them to settle for too many field goals. You don't beat the Panthers by settling for a bunch of field goals.

I think it was the above issue and the QB hits that got him canned. That and he was sorta a scapegoat.

The terrible play in the red zone was just one reason why he was canned. Look at their game in Pittsburgh, 450+ but only 13 points to show for it.

[zulater]

That is likely right. I just feel that sometimes Tomlin authorizes the call to go for it on 4th down. Then Haley calls a play. And then Ben gets all googly eyed at a WR he thinks is open deep rather than the underneath guy at the sticks. I just wonder what the "primary" read on some of those play calls is. Like when they talk about it in the meeting room are Tomlin, Haley, and Ben all on the same page that it is the endzone route first and everything else second or is Ben doing that on the fly?

Not that I expect anyone to know the answer(s) to that, but I would be super interested in knowing. It totally changes the complexion of some of those aggressive play-calls over the course of the season. Like did Tomlin think that they were going to go for the conversion and then when Ben comes back to the sidelines, he's like WTF? Or does the team have a fundamental philosophy of always green-lighting the deep ball?

Bad analogy, but bear with me. In baseball some guys get given the okay to steal regardless of game situation or match-up and w/out needing a signal from the coaching staff. Does Ben have that same latitude with the deep ball in 3rd and 4th down situations? Or does he just know that no one is going to question it?

I may be wrong, but I think it goes something like this. Tomlin decides whether to go for it or not. But once that decision is passed on to Haley it's entirely up to Haley to call the right play. Now of course as is true with any given play the qb has multiple options on the play, or he can audible out of it if he sees something in the defense. We've seen several times where Ben and AB make it up on the go just among themselves and the rest of the team is left to improvise after the fact. In other words, Ben doesn't change the play call in as much as line blocking assignments, formation and such, but if he sees AB one on one with a Cb backed off him he may change the play with just a glance or slight gesture to Brown. Anyway more often than not this works. So I think Tomlin just gives the go ahead on going for it or kicking on 4th down, but once decided its up to Haley and Ben to make it work. If the percentages start stacking up against what's being called working then I think Tomlin might need to take Haley and Ben to task on the decisions they're making and preach a more conservative approach. And I think that time might have already come. I might be wrong but it seems to me the Steelers 4th down conversion rate is below average. I think Ben might need to be reigned in a little on these plays. Too often lately he seems to be going downfield at the expense of extending the drive with a checkdown. Funny enough the hurt arm against the Bengals may actually have worked in Ben and the Steelers favor last week in Cincy. Him taking the dumpdowns that were given to him have become out of character.

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That is likely right. I just feel that sometimes Tomlin authorizes the call to go for it on 4th down. Then Haley calls a play. And then Ben gets all googly eyed at a WR he thinks is open deep rather than the underneath guy at the sticks. I just wonder what the "primary" read on some of those play calls is. Like when they talk about it in the meeting room are Tomlin, Haley, and Ben all on the same page that it is the endzone route first and everything else second or is Ben doing that on the fly?

Not that I expect anyone to know the answer(s) to that, but I would be super interested in knowing. It totally changes the complexion of some of those aggressive play-calls over the course of the season. Like did Tomlin think that they were going to go for the conversion and then when Ben comes back to the sidelines, he's like WTF? Or does the team have a fundamental philosophy of always green-lighting the deep ball?

Bad analogy, but bear with me. In baseball some guys get given the okay to steal regardless of game situation or match-up and w/out needing a signal from the coaching staff. Does Ben have that same latitude with the deep ball in 3rd and 4th down situations? Or does he just know that no one is going to question it?

I may be wrong, but I think it goes something like this. Tomlin decides whether to go for it or not. But once that decision is passed on to Haley it's entirely up to Haley to call the right play. Now of course as is true with any given play the qb has multiple options on the play, or he can audible out of it if he sees something in the defense. We've seen several times where Ben and AB make it up on the go just among themselves and the rest of the team is left to improvise after the fact. In other words, Ben doesn't change the play call in as much as line blocking assignments, formation and such, but if he sees AB one on one with a Cb backed off him he may change the play with just a glance or slight gesture to Brown. Anyway more often than not this works. So I think Tomlin just gives the go ahead on going for it or kicking on 4th down, but once decided its up to Haley and Ben to make it work. If the percentages start stacking up against what's being called working then I think Tomlin might need to take Haley and Ben to task on the decisions they're making and preach a more conservative approach. And I think that time might have already come. I might be wrong but it seems to me the Steelers 4th down conversion rate is below average. I think Ben might need to be reigned in a little on these plays. Too often lately he seems to be going downfield at the expense of extending the drive with a checkdown. Funny enough the hurt arm against the Bengals may actually have worked in Ben and the Steelers favor last week in Cincy. Him taking the dumpdowns that were given to him have become out of character.

[fansince'76]

Arians is a much better head coach than an offensive coordinator. Whisenhunt was a much better coordinator than a head coach. A couple other guys named Haley and Munchak have the same thing going on. That's all there is to that.

Yes, but I heard on more than one occasion that Arians wasn't even fit to coach a Pee-Wee team. And his "failure" as a HC at Temple (not exactly a historical college football powerhouse to begin with) was also brought up ad nauseam in support of that argument. I was just poking fun at the (in many cases) outright rabid and over-the-top hatred for the guy and the downright irrational vitriol towards him.

Not to mention the season he won Coach of the Year filling in for Pagano in Indy being written off as "the players were inspired by Pagano's battle with cancer, and Arians was just the beneficiary of that." Then he became HC of Arizona and it was predicted he'd fall on his face and be canned within 3 years and instead he wins a second Coach of the Year award and the team has continued to post a better record than the previous season every year he's been there so far.

Maybe the guy isn't quite the idiot numbnut that Yinzer Nation painted him to be after all. :chuckle:

[zulater]

Next time you want to tar and feather Tomlin over his in game decisions consider Bellichick's last 4 games this year

1. A win away from clinching the AFC's 1 seed the Patriots tie the Jets late to force overtime. Win the coin toss, elect to kick the ball, and then never see the ball in OT as the Jets score a TD and win the game.

2. Still with his destiny in his own hands goes to Miami. A team who's season is long ago over. Basically doesn't even try to win ( as attested by Brady's 5 first half pass attempts.) So essentially concedes the 1 seed to the one team that owns him in their building.

3. Divisional playoff game, guarding a 7 point lead. 2nd and 12 at the Chiefs 46. 1.08 left in the game, the Chiefs holding two time outs. Brady passes, right to a Chief! Could have been a pick 6! But Pats luck out, bounces off Chiefs player's shoulder pad right to Pats receiver for first down :doh: Imagine if that interception happens as it should have. :frusty:

4. 4th quarter, trailing by 8. 4th and 6 at the Broncos 14. 2.15 on the clock all 3 time outs in your pocket. Denver's offense has been in deep freeze for the second half. You go for it and fail. Had you kicked the fg, the Broncos would have needed at least 2 first downs to keep your offense off the field with ample time to drive for the winning TD. You wouldn't have even needed to onsides kick. Just stop an offense that had assumed turtle mode for the previous 25 minutes and it's there for the taking!


OK getting back to the here and now. Yes those decisions weren't as lopsided as I portrayed them. But the point is if Tomlin had this run over 4 games everyone would be killing him, calling him the biggest idiot on earth.

Something to consider maybe? :coffee:

[SteelersProfessor]

Arians is a better head coach than he was a Steelers OC. Simple. I was never a huge critic or fan of his. He helped Ben get better, but they hit the proverbial wall as a coach qb. I think Ben has grown into a better qb under Haley.

No he hasn't. Ben is irrelevant. The ONLY thing that has changed for BA now is his pay and his title.

They run his offense, and he calls the plays in Arizona. Just like he did in Pittsburgh.

The ONLY way, to save Ben now, is to send Haley and his BS tricks on his way and promote Randy Fichtner.

Or Ben's new deal is a complete waste of time.

[zulater]

No he hasn't. Ben is irrelevant. The ONLY thing that has changed for BA now is his pay and his title.

They run his offense, and he calls the plays in Arizona. Just like he did in Pittsburgh.

The ONLY way, to save Ben now, is to send Haley and his BS tricks on his way and promote Randy Fichtner.

Or Ben's new deal is a complete waste of time.

Guess we might as well just concede the 16 season then huh? :doh: 'Cause Haley's not going anywhere. And funny enough I seem to remember the Steelers being a 3rd string rb's fumble away from advancing to the AFC title game. This without service of the best wr in the game.

Uh yeah.. if you think the Ben -Haley collaboration is a "complete waste of time" perhaps you'd find better use of your own time than posting on the message board of a team obviously doomed to failure. :coffee:

[SteelersProfessor]

Guess we might as well just concede the 16 season then huh? :doh: 'Cause Haley's not going anywhere.

And just like the last 4 years? Neither will this team.

When Haley decides to stop his inane substitutions, his BS tricks, and trying to prove how clever he is? They MIGHT win something of importance.

Until then? Not a chance.

Ben has three good years left. Either treat them like Denver did Elway's final three? Or do him a favor and send him to someone who will.

[silver & black]

I'd love to take him off your hands for three years. Carr would learn a ton in three years behind Ben.

[Hawkman]

And just like the last 4 years? Neither will this team.

When Haley decides to stop his inane substitutions, his BS tricks, and trying to prove how clever he is? They MIGHT win something of importance.

Until then? Not a chance.

Ben has three good years left. Either treat them like Denver did Elway's final three? Or do him a favor and send him to someone who will.




[/COLOR]


So what troll haven do you hail from?

[Mojouw]

I'd be careful for those calls for Randy Fichtner. Remember Tom Clements? Was supposed to be a massive loss that he wasn't bumped from QB coach to OC. Got handed the reins in Green Bay this year as OC. Couldn't get mcuh done with Rodgers at the controls.

If this is how the off-season threads are going to be, I might have to hibernate until camp starts!

[Shoes]

One Tee-Tee hated Tomlin, his brother hates Haley. LMAO!

[86WARD]

No he hasn't. Ben is irrelevant. The ONLY thing that has changed for BA now is his pay and his title.

They run his offense, and he calls the plays in Arizona. Just like he did in Pittsburgh.

The ONLY way, to save Ben now, is to send Haley and his BS tricks on his way and promote Randy Fichtner.

Or Ben's new deal is a complete waste of time.

So arguably being the best offense in the league for two seasons has nothing to do with Haley...lol.

Funny how people complained when Arians ran a very, very bland playbook? Probably looking for more trick plays, more creative plays...the kind that came from Whisenhunts playbook? But Haley tries to do some of that and he's terrible for it.

[salamander]

I'm not even wasting my time with the troll...

[hawaiiansteeler]

And just like the last 4 years? Neither will this team.

When Haley decides to stop his inane substitutions, his BS tricks, and trying to prove how clever he is? They MIGHT win something of importance.

Until then? Not a chance.

Ben has three good years left. Either treat them like Denver did Elway's final three? Or do him a favor and send him to someone who will.



Crash, welcome to Steelers Universe...:wave:

[hawaiiansteeler]

I'm not even wasting my time with the troll...

this troll's infamous screen name is "Crash" and if you thought Tee Tee was annoying wait until you get a steady dose of this guy...:pin: