For those of you who wanted Bylsma fired....

[MrPgh]

How in the hell can you support what the Steelers have been doing since 2012? It's like there have been multiple Bylsmas on the Steelers coaching staff. They're arrogant, they never adjust, and they think they can never be wrong, even when reality is punching them in the face saying otherwise.

This team needs to get over "Stiller tradition" staying so blindly loyal to coaches. No, that doesn't mean they have to be like Cleveland and fire the coaches every year, but what's been happening the last three seasons just isn't working.

[steel9guy]

If Dan Bylsma was the coach we could win in the regular season at least.

[salamander]

Hard to disagree with that.

[MrPgh]

If Dan Bylsma was the coach we could win in the regular season at least.

Not sure about that. NFL regular season games mean a lot more than NHL regular season games. Whenever the stakes got higher, Bylsma faltered.

But seriously, why did the fans crucify the Penguins but give the Steelers a pass for many of the same problems?

[one side only]

Not sure about that. NFL regular season games mean a lot more than NHL regular season games. Whenever the stakes got higher, Bylsma faltered.

But seriously, why did the fans crucify the Penguins but give the Steelers a pass for many of the same problems?

I want to say because the comparison is like apples to oranges, but it would be more accurate to say hockey to football.

[Edman]

Dan Bylsma had great teams and squandered them in the postseason.

I don't fault Mike Tomlin for the roster turnover. What I will fault him for, is once again, having his team ill-prepared for a game. Situational Football and Fundamentals have been a joke since he's been here.

[MrPgh]

Dan Bylsma had great teams and squandered them in the postseason.

I don't fault Mike Tomlin for the roster turnover. What I will fault him for, is once again, having his team ill-prepared for a game. Situational Football and Fundamentals have been a joke since he's been here.

I'm not saying everything between the Steelers and Penguins is comparable, but certainly the things I listed in my original post are. Both Bylsma and Tomlin have demonstrated inabilities to adjust and haven't had a firm grip on their teams over the last few years in regards to discipline. One of them got crucified and eventually fired, the other is mostly given a pass.

The Steelers don't deserve to be given a pass anymore.

[steel9guy]

It shouldn't take longer than 2-3 years to turn a team around. Look at Jim Harbaugh, Pete Carroll. Even Bruce Arians. Seems like the Steelers are regressing with younger players. I bet the 2012 team would handle this team in its current form. I think this team will improve but they will not be anything special.

[X-Terminator]

How in the hell can you support what the Steelers have been doing since 2012? It's like there have been multiple Bylsmas on the Steelers coaching staff. They're arrogant, they never adjust, and they think they can never be wrong, even when reality is punching them in the face saying otherwise.

This team needs to get over "Stiller tradition" staying so blindly loyal to coaches. No, that doesn't mean they have to be like Cleveland and fire the coaches every year, but what's been happening the last three seasons just isn't working.

For me personally, it's because I have an aversion to the instant knee-jerk reaction by Steelers fans calling for the HC to be fired after every loss. Hell, after every incomplete pass. However, I'm at the point now where I can't give Tomlin a pass anymore. He's showing that he's either not a very good coach, or he's a puppet with the title of head coach. Either way, it ain't good, not should it be acceptable.

It's ironic that I have been a major critic of Clint Hurdle, but he might actually be the best manager/head coach in this city. For all of his flaws, the one thing you can say about him is that his team comes ready to play every night, and that's why the Pirates win despite having average to slightly above-average overall talent. You can't say that about Tomlin or the dearly departed Bylsma.

[Hawkman]

If I were a moderator I would AXE this thread. Just got back into Richmond from the game and I'm still pissed, and to read this CRAP!!!

Check the time!!

[MrPgh]

For me personally, it's because I have an aversion to the instant knee-jerk reaction by Steelers fans calling for the HC to be fired after every loss. Hell, after every incomplete pass. However, I'm at the point now where I can't give Tomlin a pass anymore. He's showing that he's either not a very good coach, or he's a puppet with the title of head coach. Either way, it ain't good, not should it be acceptable.

It's ironic that I have been a major critic of Clint Hurdle, but he might actually be the best manager/head coach in this city. For all of his flaws, the one thing you can say about him is that his team comes ready to play every night, and that's why the Pirates win despite having average to slightly above-average overall talent. You can't say that about Tomlin or the dearly departed Bylsma.

Like Bylsma, Tomlin won a championship very early in his head coaching career. And also like Bylsma, when Tomlin won that championship it made him arrogant and lack humility. At one point, Tomlin was the right coach for the Steelers. Maybe he isn't anymore.

[Godfather]

For me personally, it's because I have an aversion to the instant knee-jerk reaction by Steelers fans calling for the HC to be fired after every loss. Hell, after every incomplete pass. However, I'm at the point now where I can't give Tomlin a pass anymore. He's showing that he's either not a very good coach, or he's a puppet with the title of head coach. Either way, it ain't good, not should it be acceptable.

It's ironic that I have been a major critic of Clint Hurdle, but he might actually be the best manager/head coach in this city. For all of his flaws, the one thing you can say about him is that his team comes ready to play every night, and that's why the Pirates win despite having average to slightly above-average overall talent. You can't say that about Tomlin or the dearly departed Bylsma.

Hurdle has by far the worst owner in Pittsburgh (maybe even the worst in pro sports). If he can make the Pirates a contender he's a miracle worker.

[salamander]

Put me on the "Tomlin needs to go" train. Whatever he's doing just isn't working. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that out.

[Mojouw]

What I think I like most about these "fire someone" threads, is that they outline no specifics. They simply indicate that the Steelers lack "fundamentals" and "preparation". As if those two things can magically be blamed for all losses and a new coaching staff could wave a magic wand to fix them. It is not ordained from on high that this team wins all games unless the coaches screw things up. It is on the players. Also, at multiple key spots, these players are not very good. Fundamentally (see what I did there!), this is both a not overly talented roster and an inexperienced roster.

If Brown hold onto the ball on the opening drive, Heath doesn't fumble, a couple of BS penalties aren't called on Steelers safeties, Garvin remembers his assignment and actually covers Daniels on the 1st TD instead of biting on the run fake, and Ben hits Heath over the middle instead of airmailing the ball at the end of the half...this is a totally easy Steelers victory.

The game plan was good. That is on the coaches. The execution of the gameplan was crap. That is on the players.

Some players were asked to do things they can not do. That is harder to determine where the fault lies. For instance, is it reasonable to ask your RT to block Dummerville one on one? Marcus Gilbert's performance would indicate that this idea is ludicrous. The Steelers coaching staff thought otherwise. I submit that while in theory blocking DUmmerville with an offensive tackle is a good idea -- Gilbert sucks too damn bad to be counted on for anything.

[polamalubeast]

If the team shows no improvement this year, Tomlin deserves to be on the hot seat.

[SteelerFanInStl]

He, and all of the coaches and front office, should be on the hot seat already. This is the third straight year of bad football and I don't really see any signs of it getting better any time soon.

[MrPgh]

What I think I like most about these "fire someone" threads, is that they outline no specifics. They simply indicate that the Steelers lack "fundamentals" and "preparation". As if those two things can magically be blamed for all losses and a new coaching staff could wave a magic wand to fix them. It is not ordained from on high that this team wins all games unless the coaches screw things up. It is on the players. Also, at multiple key spots, these players are not very good. Fundamentally (see what I did there!), this is both a not overly talented roster and an inexperienced roster.

If Brown hold onto the ball on the opening drive, Heath doesn't fumble, a couple of BS penalties aren't called on Steelers safeties, Garvin remembers his assignment and actually covers Daniels on the 1st TD instead of biting on the run fake, and Ben hits Heath over the middle instead of airmailing the ball at the end of the half...this is a totally easy Steelers victory.

The game plan was good. That is on the coaches. The execution of the gameplan was crap. That is on the players.

Some players were asked to do things they can not do. That is harder to determine where the fault lies. For instance, is it reasonable to ask your RT to block Dummerville one on one? Marcus Gilbert's performance would indicate that this idea is ludicrous. The Steelers coaching staff thought otherwise. I submit that while in theory blocking DUmmerville with an offensive tackle is a good idea -- Gilbert sucks too damn bad to be counted on for anything.

That gameplan was good? You mean the one that didn't take advantage of the fact the Ravens best CB was out, and the gameplan that keeps having the DBs give big cushions?

After three seasons, it's not just about "bad luck" or "bad plays." This team is very flawed, and so far nothing has been done to fix it.

[Mojouw]

That gameplan was good? You mean the one that didn't take advantage of the fact the Ravens best CB was out, and the gameplan that keeps having the DBs give big cushions?

After three seasons, it's not just about "bad luck" or "bad plays." This team is very flawed, and so far nothing has been done to fix it.

Yeah. I mean the game-plan that marched the opening drive down the field and was going to score until Brown fumbled. The gameplan that did that on multiple drives until miscues, penalties, missed blocks, and turnovers ended them.

You can not take advantage of the CB's when the line can't hold pass blocks long enough to let deep routes develop. Not a gameplan issue. That is a talent issue.

Exactly which of the Steelers corners would you propose to have play press coverage? Ike "Lost 3 Steps Taylor"? Cortez "I play good every 4 games or So" Allen? William "Can only make plays in the slot" Gay? Or perhaps one of the no names they picked off the waiver wire this off-season?

This team is bad because they lack play-making talent at offensive tackle, edge rusher, and defensive back. Despite repeated attempts to fix these issues through the draft, it hasn't happened. Outside of QB, the positions listed are the 3 most critical in the NFL - at least the way it is currently being played.

So what coaching and schematic changes do you propose that are going to cover up for the fact that we lack OLB'ers that can beat decent offensive tackles one on one, we lack DB's that can cause interceptions, and we lack a RT and possibly a LG that can block anyone?

Bellicheck, the acknowledge evil genius of the league, couldn't make his team look good with a leaky o-line and not much playmaking on defense last week. I guess he sucks at coaching and should be fired.

Harbaugh, the current darling for what he has done recently with the Ravens, should clearly be fired due to the craptastic season his team had last year because of a terrible offensive line, almost zero talent at the offensive skill positions, and inexperience on defense.

When you don't have the talent or the talent is underperforming, scheme is not going to make a difference. This isn't "Remember the Titans" or some other feel-good underdog story. This is the NFL, where if you are undermanned or have a weakness, your opponents are going to exploit it and run you off the damn field because of it.

I hate to say it, but outside of Ben, Bell, and Brown -- where is this team any better than average?

[X-Terminator]

What I think I like most about these "fire someone" threads, is that they outline no specifics. They simply indicate that the Steelers lack "fundamentals" and "preparation". As if those two things can magically be blamed for all losses and a new coaching staff could wave a magic wand to fix them. It is not ordained from on high that this team wins all games unless the coaches screw things up. It is on the players. Also, at multiple key spots, these players are not very good. Fundamentally (see what I did there!), this is both a not overly talented roster and an inexperienced roster.

If Brown hold onto the ball on the opening drive, Heath doesn't fumble, a couple of BS penalties aren't called on Steelers safeties, Garvin remembers his assignment and actually covers Daniels on the 1st TD instead of biting on the run fake, and Ben hits Heath over the middle instead of airmailing the ball at the end of the half...this is a totally easy Steelers victory.

The game plan was good. That is on the coaches. The execution of the gameplan was crap. That is on the players.

Some players were asked to do things they can not do. That is harder to determine where the fault lies. For instance, is it reasonable to ask your RT to block Dummerville one on one? Marcus Gilbert's performance would indicate that this idea is ludicrous. The Steelers coaching staff thought otherwise. I submit that while in theory blocking DUmmerville with an offensive tackle is a good idea -- Gilbert sucks too damn bad to be counted on for anything.

Good coaching can make up for talent deficiencies. That's why I used the example of Clint Hurdle, who has the Pirates in a good position to make the playoffs for the 2nd straight year despite them not having the overall talent that many of the teams they are competing with have. Can you realistically say, from top to bottom, that the Pirates are more talented than the Cards, Braves, Giants, Dodgers...even the Brewers? I don't think so, and most fans would realistically say so. But the reason why they are competitive is because Hurdle gets the most out of his players, and makes sure they are prepared to play before they take the field. It's also why Tomlin, LeBeau and Haley should most certainly be on the hot seat if this pattern of terrible football continues, because clearly they are not able to do with the Steelers what Hurdle has done for the Pirates.

But yes, Marcus Gilbert does, in fact, suck. Out loud.

[MrPgh]

Yeah. I mean the game-plan that marched the opening drive down the field and was going to score until Brown fumbled. The gameplan that did that on multiple drives until miscues, penalties, missed blocks, and turnovers ended them.

You can not take advantage of the CB's when the line can't hold pass blocks long enough to let deep routes develop. Not a gameplan issue. That is a talent issue.

Exactly which of the Steelers corners would you propose to have play press coverage? Ike "Lost 3 Steps Taylor"? Cortez "I play good every 4 games or So" Allen? William "Can only make plays in the slot" Gay? Or perhaps one of the no names they picked off the waiver wire this off-season?

This team is bad because they lack play-making talent at offensive tackle, edge rusher, and defensive back. Despite repeated attempts to fix these issues through the draft, it hasn't happened. Outside of QB, the positions listed are the 3 most critical in the NFL - at least the way it is currently being played.

So what coaching and schematic changes do you propose that are going to cover up for the fact that we lack OLB'ers that can beat decent offensive tackles one on one, we lack DB's that can cause interceptions, and we lack a RT and possibly a LG that can block anyone?

Bellicheck, the acknowledge evil genius of the league, couldn't make his team look good with a leaky o-line and not much playmaking on defense last week. I guess he sucks at coaching and should be fired.

Harbaugh, the current darling for what he has done recently with the Ravens, should clearly be fired due to the craptastic season his team had last year because of a terrible offensive line, almost zero talent at the offensive skill positions, and inexperience on defense.

When you don't have the talent or the talent is underperforming, scheme is not going to make a difference. This isn't "Remember the Titans" or some other feel-good underdog story. This is the NFL, where if you are undermanned or have a weakness, your opponents are going to exploit it and run you off the damn field because of it.

I hate to say it, but outside of Ben, Bell, and Brown -- where is this team any better than average?

So you're absolving the coaches of all blame entirely? You think this current coaching staff doesn't have an expiration date?

Just because Noll and Cowher stuck around for the better part of 2 decades doesn't mean it's a good idea to keep Tomlin around that long too. He was the right guy for this team from 2007-2012, but now it looks like he's lost them. This isn't just about a lack of talent, this is about the Steelers having meltdowns.

I get it - Steelers fans are scared to death of change, even when it's badly needed. But keep in mind there's a healthy medium between how the Steelers deal with their head coaches and how the Browns deal with theirs. Firing Tomlin after possibly three years of no playoffs is far from a knee-jerk reaction.

[polamalubeast]

Good coaching can make up for talent deficiencies. That's why I used the example of Clint Hurdle, who has the Pirates in a good position to make the playoffs for the 2nd straight year despite them not having the overall talent that many of the teams they are competing with have. Can you realistically say, from top to bottom, that the Pirates are more talented than the Cards, Braves, Giants, Dodgers...even the Brewers? I don't think so, and most fans would realistically say so. But the reason why they are competitive is because Hurdle gets the most out of his players, and makes sure they are prepared to play before they take the field. It's also why Tomlin, LeBeau and Haley should most certainly be on the hot seat if this pattern of terrible football continues, because clearly they are not able to do with the Steelers what Hurdle has done for the Pirates.

But yes, Marcus Gilbert does, in fact, suck. Out loud.



Agree and Colbert deserve also to be on the hot seat if the steelers continue to be bad

[Mojouw]

Good coaching can make up for talent deficiencies. That's why I used the example of Clint Hurdle, who has the Pirates in a good position to make the playoffs for the 2nd straight year despite them not having the overall talent that many of the teams they are competing with have. Can you realistically say, from top to bottom, that the Pirates are more talented than the Cards, Braves, Giants, Dodgers...even the Brewers? I don't think so, and most fans would realistically say so. But the reason why they are competitive is because Hurdle gets the most out of his players, and makes sure they are prepared to play before they take the field. It's also why Tomlin, LeBeau and Haley should most certainly be on the hot seat if this pattern of terrible football continues, because clearly they are not able to do with the Steelers what Hurdle has done for the Pirates.

But yes, Marcus Gilbert does, in fact, suck. Out loud.

I kind of agree. Hurdle has been great at getting his guys to buy into a system Groundball pitching backed by strong defenders playing a crazy high amount of shifts and analytics driven defensive alignments. That is coaching and scheme. But I also think the Pirates are far more talented than people give them credit for.

McCutchen is the defending MVP for goodness sakes. Name 4 better catchers in baseball then Russell Martin? Name 4 better offensive second baseman than Walker. Their outfield is oozing speed and defense. When it is right, their bullpen is lights out. Starting rotation is a bit dodgy. Really wish Morton wasn't hurt! Liriano, Cole, and (I really can't believe I am saying this) Volquez are not a bad top 3. I know the Pirates are more talented than the Brewers. I suspect the only team in your list that would simply blow them out game in and game out is the Dodgers. The can compete against the rest.

I think compared against the league average, the Pirates have a more talented roster than the Steelers do.

But at least we have Marcus Gilbert to kick around. If the Pirates sign Alvarez to an extension, I think those two can move in together so the fans know whose house to TP after each loss.

[X-Terminator]

So you're absolving the coaches of all blame entirely? You think this current coaching staff doesn't have an expiration date?

Just because Noll and Cowher stuck around for the better part of 2 decades doesn't mean it's a good idea to keep Tomlin around that long too. He was the right guy for this team from 2007-2012, but now it looks like he's lost them. This isn't just about a lack of talent, this is about the Steelers having meltdowns.

I get it - Steelers fans are scared to death of change, even when it's badly needed. But keep in mind there's a healthy medium between how the Steelers deal with their head coaches and how the Browns deal with theirs. Firing Tomlin after possibly three years of no playoffs is far from a knee-jerk reaction.

The thing is, though, that both Noll and Cowher had 3+ season runs of no playoffs, and were not fired. So there is precedent. However, the difference is that Noll was at the end of his career and Cowher's teams were in transition while they restocked talent between 1998-2000. The Steelers are in transition like those Cowher teams were, but they also lack discipline and focus, and I don't believe they are putting in schemes and game plans that best utilize the talent they do have, especially on defense.

Everyone here knows that I've often been one of the biggest critics of this line of thinking. But damn...after the last 6 quarters, how can you not be concerned? How can you not question the coaching staff? How can you not question the front office?

[MrPgh]

I find it hard to believe that Penguins fans and Steelers fans are the same people. It's scary how similar the Steelers current problems are compared to the Penguins problems under Bylsma. Yet there still hasn't been a massive outcry for Tomlin to lose his job to the same magnitude that there was an outcry for Bylsma to lose his.

[Count Steeler]

I find it hard to believe that Penguins fans and Steelers fans are the same people. It's scary how similar the Steelers current problems are compared to the Penguins problems under Bylsma. Yet there still hasn't been a massive outcry for Tomlin to lose his job to the same magnitude that there was an outcry for Bylsma to lose his.

I think it is starting now. Tomlin has to go.

[ALLD]

What are the chances of Tomlin punching out his wife tonight?

[86WARD]

We could only hope?

[stillers4me]

What are the chances of Tomlin punching out his wife tonight?

If I was his wife, I'd punch him.

[fansince'76]

If I was his wife, I'd punch him.

:pin:

:chuckle:

[Steelermania]

What Dan had working against him is the fact that he had the two best players in the world on his team, thus expectations were extremely high. I think most realistic fans know that the current Steeler roster is not Super Bowl caliber, although making the playoffs is a realistic goal. Also, Tomlin is helped by the fact that the Steelers returned to the Super Bowl 2 years after they won it. The Pens haven't been back to the Finals, and were smashed when they reached the conference championship. Had the Pens lost a 7 game final in 2011, Bylsma is likely still here. On the hot seat, but still here.

[MrPgh]

This thread deserves another bump. The Steelers need major changes way more than the Penguins needed them last off season.

[zulater]

The Steelers wont win 7 games this year, and will still not make any major changes to the front office or coaching staff. I suppose they'll ask LeBeau to retire. They possibly might even fire Haley. But if Tomlin and Colbert remain will it really matter?

[X-Terminator]

The Steelers wont win 7 games this year, and will still not make any major changes to the front office or coaching staff. I suppose they'll ask LeBeau to retire. They possibly might even fire Haley. But if Tomlin and Colbert remain will it really matter?

They need those changes, but I'm not sure I want Art II making those changes. So I'm really at a crossroads as to what to do. One thing I know I would NOT do is trade any of my talented players under any circumstances. They need the right coaches to get the most out of them.

[Shoes]

They need those changes, but I'm not sure I want Art II making those changes. So I'm really at a crossroads as to what to do. One thing I know I would NOT do is trade any of my talented players under any circumstances. They need the right coaches to get the most out of them.

I agree, it will be a scary thing when Dan is gone.

[Count Steeler]

They need those changes, but I'm not sure I want Art II making those changes. So I'm really at a crossroads as to what to do. One thing I know I would NOT do is trade any of my talented players under any circumstances. They need the right coaches to get the most out of them.

Agreed, but who else can it be?

[X-Terminator]

Agreed, but who else can it be?

That's why I have a conundrum. I know what they need to do, but they don't have the right guy in charge of doing it.

[Count Steeler]

That's why I have a conundrum. I know what they need to do, but they don't have the right guy in charge of doing it.

I was hoping that the return of Dan to the team, after his ambassador stint was over, might have changed things. Maybe if Art II has to pick a new GM, he will get Dan involved.

[BigNastyDefense]

I am going to semi-defend Tomlin here:

I don't think he has the control that many head coaches have. I don't think he has the control over his coaching staff like Cowher was given. When he was hired, it was a condition of his hiring that he keep LeBeau and the defensive coaching staff intact (i.e. can't fire them). Therefore he was not allowed to mold this defense in any way shape or form. Now, that worked for a while because the defense was damn good and had guys who fit the system. Now however, those guys aren't there. Polamalu isn't the playmaker he was back then, Harrison was only signed because of the M*A*S*H Unit of linebackers after the Carolina game, we don't have a NT to be the lynchpin, and our corners are average at best. But with him seemingly not being allowed to make changes, the scheme stayed the same as always and plays players that do not fit it. This defense has 4-3 parts playing a 3-4 scheme.

On offense, he promoted Arians to OC when he became head coach. We all knew that Whiz and Grimm were gone, that was a given. The Steelers offense was, IMHO, better with Arians at OC. Yeah, they had bad games. But more often than not the offense wasn't bad...and I don't often remember them looking like they did today. Did they have redzone issues? Yeah they did, but I think they were better in the redzone then than they have been lately.

Also, Tomlin didn't fire Arians. Honestly, I don't think he wanted to boot Arians at all. That was a 100% Art II move, as was hiring Haley. I don't think Mike Tomlin had any interest in hiring Haley, but once again he wasn't allowed to form his own coaching staff. His hands were tied, he was stuck with Haley. And it's not like he could just come out and say "this wasn't my call, I didn't want the guy on my coaching staff" because that would have just been bad all-around for Tomlin's career.

So far, I am unimpressed with Art II as the guy operating the Steelers. He's a lawyer, not a football guy. While his father was putting pieces in place on this team, he was in law school and being a hot shot lawyer. But now that he's in control, he wants to be the guy calling shots. In my mind, he's like Jerry Jones. Doesn't know jack about football, but wants everyone to think he does. So he fires an offensive coordinator after a 12-4 season to bring in a guy who was fired during the season. A guy who was notorious for being hard for players to get along with, based on what he did with an Arizona team that a toddler could have coordinated a successful offense with the talent they had.

I say at the end of the season, clean house. Tell LeBeau the time has come to hang up the headset and retire. Fire Haley before the season ends for all I care. And allow Tomlin to finally truly put his fingerprints on this football team. Let him hire his own coordinators. Let him turn the defense into a 4-3 defense if that's what he wants. Let Butler go be the DC somewhere, because honestly I don't want him to take over for LeBeau if that means the same shit. Our linebackers can't tackle, that's on the LB coach.

I want to see Tomlin in full control of his coaching staff and this team before I say throw his ass out of here. But if that doesn't happen, when his contract is near up, he might choose to walk away. I wouldn't blame him if he did.

[zulater]

I am going to semi-defend Tomlin here:

I don't think he has the control that many head coaches have. I don't think he has the control over his coaching staff like Cowher was given. When he was hired, it was a condition of his hiring that he keep LeBeau and the defensive coaching staff intact (i.e. can't fire them). Therefore he was not allowed to mold this defense in any way shape or form. Now, that worked for a while because the defense was damn good and had guys who fit the system. Now however, those guys aren't there. Polamalu isn't the playmaker he was back then, Harrison was only signed because of the M*A*S*H Unit of linebackers after the Carolina game, we don't have a NT to be the lynchpin, and our corners are average at best. But with him seemingly not being allowed to make changes, the scheme stayed the same as always and plays players that do not fit it. This defense has 4-3 parts playing a 3-4 scheme.

On offense, he promoted Arians to OC when he became head coach. We all knew that Whiz and Grimm were gone, that was a given. The Steelers offense was, IMHO, better with Arians at OC. Yeah, they had bad games. But more often than not the offense wasn't bad...and I don't often remember them looking like they did today. Did they have redzone issues? Yeah they did, but I think they were better in the redzone then than they have been lately.

Also, Tomlin didn't fire Arians. Honestly, I don't think he wanted to boot Arians at all. That was a 100% Art II move, as was hiring Haley. I don't think Mike Tomlin had any interest in hiring Haley, but once again he wasn't allowed to form his own coaching staff. His hands were tied, he was stuck with Haley. And it's not like he could just come out and say "this wasn't my call, I didn't want the guy on my coaching staff" because that would have just been bad all-around for Tomlin's career.

So far, I am unimpressed with Art II as the guy operating the Steelers. He's a lawyer, not a football guy. While his father was putting pieces in place on this team, he was in law school and being a hot shot lawyer. But now that he's in control, he wants to be the guy calling shots. In my mind, he's like Jerry Jones. Doesn't know jack about football, but wants everyone to think he does. So he fires an offensive coordinator after a 12-4 season to bring in a guy who was fired during the season. A guy who was notorious for being hard for players to get along with, based on what he did with an Arizona team that a toddler could have coordinated a successful offense with the talent they had.

I say at the end of the season, clean house. Tell LeBeau the time has come to hang up the headset and retire. Fire Haley before the season ends for all I care. And allow Tomlin to finally truly put his fingerprints on this football team. Let him hire his own coordinators. Let him turn the defense into a 4-3 defense if that's what he wants. Let Butler go be the DC somewhere, because honestly I don't want him to take over for LeBeau if that means the same shit. Our linebackers can't tackle, that's on the LB coach.

I want to see Tomlin in full control of his coaching staff and this team before I say throw his ass out of here. But if that doesn't happen, when his contract is near up, he might choose to walk away. I wouldn't blame him if he did.

Fair points.

[MrPgh]

I am going to semi-defend Tomlin here:

I don't think he has the control that many head coaches have. I don't think he has the control over his coaching staff like Cowher was given. When he was hired, it was a condition of his hiring that he keep LeBeau and the defensive coaching staff intact (i.e. can't fire them). Therefore he was not allowed to mold this defense in any way shape or form. Now, that worked for a while because the defense was damn good and had guys who fit the system. Now however, those guys aren't there. Polamalu isn't the playmaker he was back then, Harrison was only signed because of the M*A*S*H Unit of linebackers after the Carolina game, we don't have a NT to be the lynchpin, and our corners are average at best. But with him seemingly not being allowed to make changes, the scheme stayed the same as always and plays players that do not fit it. This defense has 4-3 parts playing a 3-4 scheme.

On offense, he promoted Arians to OC when he became head coach. We all knew that Whiz and Grimm were gone, that was a given. The Steelers offense was, IMHO, better with Arians at OC. Yeah, they had bad games. But more often than not the offense wasn't bad...and I don't often remember them looking like they did today. Did they have redzone issues? Yeah they did, but I think they were better in the redzone then than they have been lately.

Also, Tomlin didn't fire Arians. Honestly, I don't think he wanted to boot Arians at all. That was a 100% Art II move, as was hiring Haley. I don't think Mike Tomlin had any interest in hiring Haley, but once again he wasn't allowed to form his own coaching staff. His hands were tied, he was stuck with Haley. And it's not like he could just come out and say "this wasn't my call, I didn't want the guy on my coaching staff" because that would have just been bad all-around for Tomlin's career.

So far, I am unimpressed with Art II as the guy operating the Steelers. He's a lawyer, not a football guy. While his father was putting pieces in place on this team, he was in law school and being a hot shot lawyer. But now that he's in control, he wants to be the guy calling shots. In my mind, he's like Jerry Jones. Doesn't know jack about football, but wants everyone to think he does. So he fires an offensive coordinator after a 12-4 season to bring in a guy who was fired during the season. A guy who was notorious for being hard for players to get along with, based on what he did with an Arizona team that a toddler could have coordinated a successful offense with the talent they had.

I say at the end of the season, clean house. Tell LeBeau the time has come to hang up the headset and retire. Fire Haley before the season ends for all I care. And allow Tomlin to finally truly put his fingerprints on this football team. Let him hire his own coordinators. Let him turn the defense into a 4-3 defense if that's what he wants. Let Butler go be the DC somewhere, because honestly I don't want him to take over for LeBeau if that means the same shit. Our linebackers can't tackle, that's on the LB coach.

I want to see Tomlin in full control of his coaching staff and this team before I say throw his ass out of here. But if that doesn't happen, when his contract is near up, he might choose to walk away. I wouldn't blame him if he did.

Everything you say is true. But let me ask you this - once a head coach loses control of the team, can he get it back? Part of that is Tomlin's fault, being too much of a buddy and not a coach with the players at times. But part of it is also Art II's fault. When the players know that the owner is the one calling the shots about the coordinators and how he wants the team to play, that emasculates the coach, and the players know he really isn't the boss.

Tomlin takes a lot of blame, but it isn't all on him. Unfortunately, he isn't the one who can fix it. If Tomlin becomes a good coach again, it will have to be with another team.

[Hawkman]

Hell, why don't they just sell the team and move it to LA!! That will take care of everything!!

[MrPgh]

Hell, why don't they just sell the team and move it to LA!! That will take care of everything!!

Someone needs to take off the black and gold homer glasses.

[X-Terminator]

Someone needs to take off the black and gold homer glasses.

Chill man, he prefers to just root for his team no matter what. There's nothing wrong with that.

[MrPgh]

Chill man, he prefers to just root for his team no matter what. There's nothing wrong with that.

He can root root root all he wants. He's just acting like there's nothing wrong and how dare we question the way the Steelers do things.

[Hawkman]

He can root root root all he wants. He's just acting like there's nothing wrong and how dare we question the way the Steelers do things.

WOW! You got all that from what I said. Guess you know everything!

[zulater]

Everything you say is true. But let me ask you this - once a head coach loses control of the team, can he get it back? Part of that is Tomlin's fault, being too much of a buddy and not a coach with the players at times. But part of it is also Art II's fault. When the players know that the owner is the one calling the shots about the coordinators and how he wants the team to play, that emasculates the coach, and the players know he really isn't the boss.

Tomlin takes a lot of blame, but it isn't all on him. Unfortunately, he isn't the one who can fix it. If Tomlin becomes a good coach again, it will have to be with another team.

This might be the first time I ever agreed fully with one of your posts.

[Bluecoat96]

I'm reminded of a few years back when Marvin Lewis's contract was up and he renegotiated with Mike Brown. Didn't Mike Brown FINALLY step back and give Lewis more control? Look at the results. The Bengals are a decent team now. Do you think Art II and Tomlin will get to that point? I don't know.