RUN Defense..... Are you Serious ??

[katmandu]

Ok, the run Defense pretty much sucked in Pre-Season and now today they allow 189 Yards ?? :mad2: :mad2:

Is this what we have to look forward to the rest of the season ?

[Steelerette]

Obviously

[tube517]

Plus no turnovers by the defense yet again

[Shoes]

This is nothing new, the D gave up quite a few big running plays last year and the problem isn't fixed.

[polamalubeast]

Ok, the run Defense pretty much sucked in Pre-Season and now today they allow 189 Yards ?? :mad2: :mad2:

Is this what we have to look forward to the rest of the season ?



6.1 yards per carry for the browns....It was a big problem in the preseason too

[Count Steeler]

DL has to win the battles or we are in for a roller coaster season.

We better resign ourselves to the goal of scoring at least 35 points a game.

[polamalubeast]

The pass rush was awful(again) too

[Shoes]

6.1 yards per carry for the browns....It was a big problem in the preseason too

……..and last year too. Coaching.

[polamalubeast]

……..and last year too. Coaching.


and front office

[Shoes]

and front office

We agree! :chuckle:

[Count Steeler]

……..and last year too. Coaching.

Not coaching. Guys not winning their battles. Smith, Snack and Kiesel were key. The scheme hasn't changed. The guys are lacking in talent or brain power.
At some point, you have to win the physical battle, if not, there are open running lanes.

Shazier had a hell of a first game in the preseason because the DL won their battles. The first half, they won their battles. Cleveland upped the pace in the second half and the DL couldn't keep up. I don't think the coaches told the Steelers to stop playing in the second half.

[Shoes]

From year to year its coaching imo. This is not a new problem and the battle isn't being won in the secondary either, where the vets are. Maybe the scheme needs to change.

[polamalubeast]

Not coaching. Guys not winning their battles. Smith, Snack and Kiesel were key. The scheme hasn't changed. The guys are lacking in talent or brain power.
At some point, you have to win the physical battle, if not, there are open running lanes.

Shazier had a hell of a first game in the preseason because the DL won their battles. The first half, they won their battles. Cleveland upped the pace in the second half and the DL couldn't keep up. I don't think the coaches told the Steelers to stop playing in the second half.

The steelers need a true Nose Tackle!

[GBMelBlount]

We got manhandled in the trenches on both sides of the ball in the second half.

Second half let downs & blown 4th quarter leads have happened regularly the last few years.

[SteelerFanInStl]

Tate barely played so that makes it even worse.

[X-Terminator]

The steelers need a true Nose Tackle!

They have one, or the closest thing to one. Unfortunately, he was on the sideline in street clothes.

[HollywoodSteel]

I think we all need to rewatch the game. I was running around not seeing everything that was happening. I know their average was increased by some big runs, one of which I know exactly what happened. The DL were occupying their men and Timmons had a shot at the RB at the line of scrimmage. He took a slightly bad angle and he couldn't get a clean shot. Next thing you know the RB was in the secondary.

Sometimes it's the DL, sometimes it's a missed assignment by a LB, and sometimes it's a bad angle or bad tackle.. Problem is these mistakes seemed to pile up in a hurry, one on top of the other at the worst times.

[Steeldude]

I thought what was seen in pre-season does not carry over into the regular season? A poor defense is still evident.

[Edman]

You get what you put out there. When you put mediocrity at Nose Tackle, a Mediocre Run D is what you'll get. I'm not surprised Cleveland ran with success. Baltimore will too. So will Carolina. As long as McLendon is out there, the Run D will suck.

Steve McLendon is just not a good Nose Tackle. In fact, he's awful. Period. Cam Thomas is no better.

I always thought McCullers will sit while the D will ride it out with McLendon, with some reps for McCullers here and there. Looks like Big Dan's time will come sooner rather than later if this keeps up. I know he may or may not be ready, well he better get ready. This Defense needs him. Get him some reps.

McCullers was inactive for this game. I reckon he'll be a gameday active from now on.

[X-Terminator]

I thought what was seen in pre-season does not carry over into the regular season? A poor defense is still evident.

I still say the preseason doesn't matter, and fans make it out to be way more than they should. The 49ers' first-team O didn't score a touchdown in the preseason. How'd they do today?

[Shoes]

Well its the same problem as last year and lo and behold the infection is back.

[polamalubeast]

You get what you put out there. When you put mediocrity at Nose Tackle, a Mediocre Run D is what you'll get. I'm not surprised Cleveland ran with success. Baltimore will too. So will Carolina. As long as McLendon is out there, the Run D will suck.

Steve McLendon is just not a good Nose Tackle. In fact, he's awful. Period. Cam Thomas is no better.

I always thought McCullers will sit while the D will ride it out with McLendon, with some reps for McCullers here and there. Looks like Big Dan's time will come sooner rather than later if this keeps up. I know he may or may not be ready, well he better get ready. This Defense needs him. Get him some reps.

McCullers was inactive for this game. I reckon he'll be a gameday active from now on.

I hope the steelers going to make a change before it's too late

[Edman]

The steelers need a true Nose Tackle!

They already have one. He was inactive today.

This McClendon/Cam Thomas experiment needs to stop.

[st33lersguy]

Nothing RB Terrence West 16 carries for 100 yards. 189 yards while trailing 27-3 at the half. Both morbidly unacceptable

[JayC]

more than likely this defense is going to be frustrating to watch all year. they seem so easy to pick apart. ike taylor sucks. run defense sucks. pass rush sucks.

[Steeldude]

I still say the preseason doesn't matter, and fans make it out to be way more than they should. The 49ers' first-team O didn't score a touchdown in the preseason. How'd they do today?

These glaring holes were evident in preseason. The win-loss record and points scored are pretty much meaningless, but how players perform with basic fundamentals and formations should still be seen as capable tasks in pre-season.

[steel9guy]

I've said it all preseason, the defense will make or break this team. Especially the run defense. Really wish we could make Casey Hampton 15 years younger and give him a call. That would help big time to have a starting caliber nose tackle like him. Just don't see anyone on the Dline filling his shoes again this year

[katmandu]

The steelers need a true Nose Tackle!Got one in Shade Tree. Just to "green" yet.

[Mojouw]

WHoever talked about watching the game again is correct/ How many of the runs that produced big yardage came against base 3-4? How many against sub-packages where a NT wasn't even on the field?

Same with the pass-rush? Who actually beat an offensive tackle or guard one on one today? Who beat a TE or a RB? Who got a free rush due to scheme?

I know I didn't pay much attention to the run defense, other than it was terrible. I did watch the pass rush a bit more. Jones got his sack by beating a back-up TE. Kiesel got pressure unblocked due to a missed assignment by the Browns. Heyward was the only one I saw that actually simply beat his man.

Individually there is not enough talent on this team to make the scheme "go". Nor is there a transcendent talent to overcome the deficiencies - like Troy in his early prime.

Point being very little of this can be corrected by coaching. Unless you want to change the whole scheme. Lebeau, Butler, Lake, Porter, etc. can't play for these guys.

[HollywoodSteel]

WHoever talked about watching the game again is correct/ How many of the runs that produced big yardage came against base 3-4? How many against sub-packages where a NT wasn't even on the field?

Same with the pass-rush? Who actually beat an offensive tackle or guard one on one today? Who beat a TE or a RB? Who got a free rush due to scheme?

I know I didn't pay much attention to the run defense, other than it was terrible. I did watch the pass rush a bit more. Jones got his sack by beating a back-up TE. Kiesel got pressure unblocked due to a missed assignment by the Browns. Heyward was the only one I saw that actually simply beat his man.

Individually there is not enough talent on this team to make the scheme "go". Nor is there a transcendent talent to overcome the deficiencies - like Troy in his early prime.

Point being very little of this can be corrected by coaching. Unless you want to change the whole scheme. Lebeau, Butler, Lake, Porter, etc. can't play for these guys.

I'm the on who said they we need to re-watch to evaluate, and I'm glad you agree, but I think you are still jumping to some conclusions (even if those conclusions turn out to be correct). I believe our two starting defensive ends are talented enough to make this scheme work, and Tuit probably will be as well once he is coached up a bit more. I saw Worilds beat his man one on one at least once, although he can be hit or miss. Not sure why that is, but he seems to have enough talent to play the position. Timmons blew it several times today. Again don't know why exactly, but I'm quite sure he has the talent to play the position. I'm also sure Shazier has what is required to play in this scheme and will be that transcendent talent once he is coached up more as well. The jury is still out on J. Jones, but he most definitely can improve with more experience and coaching up as well.

It's the nose tackle position that I'm not sure exists on the current roster. If Dan the giant is better than the guys who dressed today then that is a horrible coaching fail, or it just means that he needs to be coached up more as well.

Again, we really have to look at it on a play by play basis and see what happened. Maybe some things can be corrected. Maybe none of it can. But I think stating either definitively right now is tough. At least for me. All I know for certain is that Ike hit his ceiling a few years ago and can't really get any better, which is a shame but a reality. Perhaps he can cut down on the useless post play fighting if he really makes a point of doing so. That's not much but it's something.

I heard that Sharknado might be hurt bad. That would really suck.

[Mojouw]

I'm the on who said they we need to re-watch to evaluate, and I'm glad you agree, but I think you are still jumping to some conclusions (even if those conclusions turn out to be correct). I believe our two starting defensive ends are talented enough to make this scheme work, and Tuit probably will be as well once he is coached up a bit more. I saw Worilds beat his man one on one at least once, although he can be hit or miss. Not sure why that is, but he seems to have enough talent to play the position. Timmons blew it several times today. Again don't know why exactly, but I'm quite sure he has the talent to play the position. I'm also sure Shazier has what is required to play in this scheme and will be that transcendent talent once he is coached up more as well. The jury is still out on J. Jones, but he most definitely can improve with more experience and coaching up as well.

It's the nose tackle position that I'm not sure exists on the current roster. If Dan the giant is better than the guys who dressed today then that is a horrible coaching fail, or it just means that he needs to be coached up more as well.

Again, we really have to look at it on a play by play basis and see what happened. Maybe some things can be corrected. Maybe none of it can. But I think stating either definitively right now is tough. At least for me. All I know for certain is that Ike hit his ceiling a few years ago and can't really get any better, which is a shame but a reality. Perhaps he can cut down on the useless post play fighting if he really makes a point of doing so. That's not much but it's something.

I heard that Sharknado might be hurt bad. That would really suck.

You're right. I think I am just being a bit too pessimistic. Perhaps it is because I follow this team so closely, but I feel like I, as a fan, have been waiting for some of these guys (Jones, Worilds, Allen, Sharknado, etc) to step-up and "break-out" for so long. But in reality, it really hasn't been that long and it was only one week of early season football.

Perhaps I should put my pessimism back on the shelf for a few weeks and just enjoy the fact that the Steelers won, Shazier made a few "wow" plays, Wheaton looked ready, and Bell looks like he wants to run and catch for 3,000 yards from scrimmage. Additionally, to borrow from Tomlin, the demise of Heath Miller has been greatly exaggerated.

That being said, I refuse to be positive about Marcus Gilbert.

[katmandu]

Ok, the run Defense pretty much sucked in Pre-Season and now today they allow 189 Yards ?? :mad2: :mad2:

Is this what we have to look forward to the rest of the season ?.......and the bleeding continues on..........

[86WARD]

Terrance West and Bernard Pierce. God forbid a RB with major talent or experience plays against this defense...lol.

[polamalubeast]

I am sorry,but this defense is soft right now.

I hope that will change, but I have doubts.....Next week it will be against Newton, Williams and Stewart ...

[Craic]

What's more frustrating for me is that there were periods of yesterdays game that the run defense looked absolutely solid. They were swarming to the ball, stuffing the runner, it almost looked like the old Steelers. And then, poof, it was gone and we were getting cut up again.

[st33lersguy]

We need some Stephon Tuitt and Dan McCullers.

[Psycho Ward 86]

We need some Stephon Tuitt and Dan McCullers.

good god would i prefer tuitt in there over thomas more badly than anything. thomas was so slow off the ball last night he was a yard or two behind the line of scrimmage by the time forsett and pierce got there

[polamalubeast]

Alex Kozora ‏@Alex_Kozora 8s
Through the first two weeks, the #Steelers are allowing 9.65 YPC on 2nd down runs. 23 carries for 222 yards. Oh yeah, and two touchdowns.

https://twitter.com/Alex_Kozora/status/511578071137517568

[Mojouw]

So looks like the combined vortex of suck that is Cam Thomas and Jason Worilds is largely responsible for the gashing of the run defense:

http://www.steelersdepot.com/2014/09/defensive-left-side-falling-behind-run/

And to think I was worried about Jones anchoring against the run. Looks like Worilds is the one who forgot how to play LB.

[katmandu]

I am sorry,but this defense is soft right now.

I hope that will change, but I have doubts.....Next week it will be against Newton, Williams and...Panthers held to 42 Total Yards rushing!

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2014092113/2014/REG3/steelers@panthers#menu=gameinfo&tab=analyze



Net Yards Rushing

42






Total Rushing Plays

10




Average Gain per Rushing Play
4.2




Tackled for a Loss (Number-Yards)

1--1

[polamalubeast]

on only 10 runs...

[Steelerette]

on only 10 runs...
That's a mystery to me. Cam Newton is a good player and valiant for toughing it out through his injury but you'd think they would try to hand it off more, especially against a team (us) that just got gashed.

[HollywoodSteel]

That's a mystery to me. Cam Newton is a good player and valiant for toughing it out through his injury but you'd think they would try to hand it off more, especially against a team (us) that just got gashed.

I was moving around a lot and not watching the game too closely. Were we stacking the box and daring them to pass? I certainly saw the Panthers make some nice plays in the passing game. That rookie receiver they have is a beast.

[Craic]

on only 10 runs...

Yeah, but, take a look at what actually happened per run play:

(8:51) J.Stewart up the middle to PIT 38 for 4 yards (R.Shazier).
(7:36) M.Tolbert up the middle to PIT 22 for 2 yards (L.Timmons).
(:01) (Shotgun) J.Stewart left guard to CAR 24 for 3 yards (W.Gay; L.Timmons).

Second Quarter

(4:51) J.Stewart right end to CAR 35 for -1 yards (S.McLendon).

Third quarter

(15:00) J.Stewart right guard pushed ob at CAR 35 for 15 yards (M.Mitchell).
(14:35) J.Stewart left end to CAR 35 for no gain (L.Timmons). PENALTY on CAR-B.Bell, Offensive Holding, 10 yards, enforced at CAR 35 - No Play.
(14:03) M.Tolbert right tackle to CAR 35 for 5 yards (L.Timmons). PENALTY on CAR-R.Brockel, Offensive Holding, 10 yards, enforced at CAR 30 - No Play.
(9:36) J.Stewart up the middle to PIT 49 for 10 yards (M.Mitchell).
(9:11) (Shotgun) M.Tolbert right guard to PIT 48 for 1 yard (S.Spence).
(7:52) (No Huddle, Shotgun) M.Tolbert right guard to PIT 37 for 1 yard (S.Spence).

So, basically, there was one run of 15 yards, and one run of 10 yards. That's it. The rest went 4, 3, 2, 1, 1, -1.

And, both of the big runs came in the beginning of the second half, when the Panthers came out trying to focus on the run. Yet, both times, they were stopped. Moreover, two more runs went for 5 yards and 0 yards, and both were penalized for offensive holding. That's even more impressive when you think about it. So, the numbers really are 35 yards on 8 attempts, or 5 yards a carry, with two runs making up the bulk of that. Without those, it's 1.6 yards a carry. I'd say that's an impressive stat. And last, of those two big-run series, the first ended in a fumble and a total drive yardage of -3. The second ended in a field goal.

EDIT: Since we're talking Run Defense, I didn't include Can Newton's scrambles, because that's actually pass protection. But he only had 2 runs for 7 yards, one a five-yarder and the other for 2.