WRs could be a strength for Steelers

[polamalubeast]

PITTSBURGH -- There is a reason, beyond the headaches that accompanied his production and flashes of greatness, the Pittsburgh Steelers have no interest in bringing back Santonio Holmes.

They simply don’t need the 30-year-old wide receiver, who won the MVP Award in their last Super Bowl victory but has been plagued by injuries in recent seasons.


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http://espn.go.com/blog/nflnation/post/_/id/130461/wrs-could-be-a-strength-for-steelers

[zulater]

http://www.steelersdepot.com/2014/06/justin-brown-taking-nothing-granted-season/

Justin /Brown could be part of the mix too.

[steelreserve]

noway. we need to spend our next four #1 draft picks on receivers, most of them wont be tall and the other ones wont work out anyone remember santonio holems huh??? then we need to darft all linebackers cuz we dont have enough of those & then FINALLY address the o-line. forget anything else, it takes too long to learn the defense anyway

[Mojouw]

Yeah the article is all sunshine and rainbows. But here is the key point - actually the only relevant point -- "Haley tempered his assessment of the Steelers' wide receivers with the acknowledgement that the current group has yet to show what it can collectively do in pads."

Not a damn other thing matters. Assuming the Steelers go 5-6 deep at the position, they are currently only employing 2 guys that have a track record of getting it done on Sundays, Brown and Moore. DHB has played in the NFL but not always been consistently effective at catching the ball, which is a crucial skill at the WR position. Wheaton, Brown, Bryant, Archer, etc are all unproven commodities, lottery tickets at best.

I hope these guys all live up to their massive amounts of potential, but will believe the hype when I see some production. Brown reminds me of the annual off-season hero WR that Steelers watchers get super excited about and then nothing happens.

[TMC]

I love the use of the word could. It could be a strength. It could be an unmitigated disaster. Here is the upside.

We know what Antonio Brown is. He is a guy that will kill teams under 20 yards because his short area quickness is so great and his routes are crisp. Excellent hands, great after the catch. He is not a down the field guy in that he can just bust you up when he wants to do so, but he can set it up and then when he goes down the field, he can get wide open because his routes usually burn the DB pretty badly. Kind of a choose your spot guy in that aspect. He could use a complimentary guy in that area.

Markus Wheaton has better height. He is almost 6', a little over 190 although he visually appears slighter of frame. Good speed (near 4.4). He is similar to Brown in he also plays with good suddenness and has that burst out of his breaks. He runs good routes. Athletically, he is bigger, faster, quicker, stronger, and taller than Antonio Brown. He has the potential to be better. The key is, Brown is fueled by pure desire. He earned his place through simply outworking every other guy around him. If that rubs off on these younger guys, it could turn them into something truly special as Wheaton has those raw tools that Brown was not born with.....has to put it on the field though....like Brown did.

Lance Moore is smaller and does not have elite speed. He is an excellent route runner with good burst out of his cuts and excellent hands. As a slot guy, he is very dangerous. Lack of height and elite speed will keep him off the edges. He also has that veteran presence you see in Brown. He is able to take it from practice and put it on the field. Lot of respect for him and Brown because of that. Too many elite athletes cannot take it from college to the pros or translate it from shorts to pads. Brown and Moore do and are so consistent in their games.

Bryant is similar to Wheaton in some ways. He has the physical gifts. He is very tall with good speed. He has better than expected burst coming out of his breaks. He can be a sloppy route runner at times. He can have some ugly drops which appear due to just not concentrating on making the catch. Good hands, solid when he catches with his hands. He high points well. Does a nice job of tracking the ball in the air. He can take passes from the DB and is really good with body position. I like the way he will often box out the DB, especially in the endzone, and use his size to make catches. Like Wheaton, he has the raw potential to be something special, but he has to translate it from college to the pros and from the practice/meeting rooms to the field.

Justin Brown is the guy everyone is talking about as potentially being the fifth WR. Brown has size, but he does not show great burst or speed in his game. He is a marginal athlete and his game is at its best under 20 yards. He can challenge deep, but does not really track the deep ball well. Moye is stronger with the ball in the air. Brown is better at running shorter routes, getting position, and securing the pass. Will be a difficult decision. Do you want a potential playmaker (Moye) or a chain mover (Brown).

I think the wildcard here will be the new WR. He has nice size, speed, quickness out of breaks, and solid hands. Raw. Very raw. But, he does have something. Former basketball player, should do well tracking the ball and should have strong hands.

It all depends on if these young guys can step up.

[zulater]

We won a Super Bowl with Ben throwing passes to Cedric Wilson at wide out If the o-line and running backs live up to expectations these guys will be just fine.

[Mojouw]

We won a Super Bowl with Ben throwing passes to Cedric Wilson at wide out If the o-line and running backs live up to expectations these guys will be just fine.

And that was how many years ago? Certainly nothing has changed in the NFL over that time span.

Not to mention that team also had two legitimate WR's in front of Wilson in Ward and Randle El.

Look I think the Steelers have amassed a relatively impressive array of young talent at the WR position. My only point is that to look at that unit and figure it is all locked up as a strength is kinda not based on any facts. A few short months ago we were all freaking out about losing Cotchery and Sanders. Two above average players to be sure, but neither is a real world beater.

Hell there have been a ton of expectations lately for the o-line draft picks - how has that worked out?

[ALLD]

I like Moore. He is a lot like Wes Welker with good hands, but not gay.

[zulater]

And that was how many years ago? Certainly nothing has changed in the NFL over that time span.

Not to mention that team also had two legitimate WR's in front of Wilson in Ward and Randle El.

Look I think the Steelers have amassed a relatively impressive array of young talent at the WR position. My only point is that to look at that unit and figure it is all locked up as a strength is kinda not based on any facts. A few short months ago we were all freaking out about losing Cotchery and Sanders. Two above average players to be sure, but neither is a real world beater.

Hell there have been a ton of expectations lately for the o-line draft picks - how has that worked out?

Not nearly as much as you think. If you can run the ball effectively, consistently put yourself in favorable down and distance situations and pass block then you can get by with some fairly average receivers. And by the way, Sanders and Cotchery were nothing special. I liked Cotch, but Lance Moore is at least his equal. The plays Sanders didn't make last year factored more into Steelers losses than the ones he did make into Steelers wins.

Were not exactly replacing Stallworth and Swann. There has been no net loss at the wr position. Barring injury I'd wager on that with anyone.,

[Dwinsgames]

I love the use of the word could. It could be a strength. It could be an unmitigated disaster. Here is the upside.

We know what Antonio Brown is. He is a guy that will kill teams under 20 yards because his short area quickness is so great and his routes are crisp. Excellent hands, great after the catch. He is not a down the field guy in that he can just bust you up when he wants to do so, but he can set it up and then when he goes down the field, he can get wide open because his routes usually burn the DB pretty badly. Kind of a choose your spot guy in that aspect. He could use a complimentary guy in that area.

Markus Wheaton has better height. He is almost 6', a little over 190 although he visually appears slighter of frame. Good speed (near 4.4). He is similar to Brown in he also plays with good suddenness and has that burst out of his breaks. He runs good routes. Athletically, he is bigger, faster, quicker, stronger, and taller than Antonio Brown. He has the potential to be better. The key is, Brown is fueled by pure desire. He earned his place through simply outworking every other guy around him. If that rubs off on these younger guys, it could turn them into something truly special as Wheaton has those raw tools that Brown was not born with.....has to put it on the field though....like Brown did.

Lance Moore is smaller and does not have elite speed. He is an excellent route runner with good burst out of his cuts and excellent hands. As a slot guy, he is very dangerous. Lack of height and elite speed will keep him off the edges. He also has that veteran presence you see in Brown. He is able to take it from practice and put it on the field. Lot of respect for him and Brown because of that. Too many elite athletes cannot take it from college to the pros or translate it from shorts to pads. Brown and Moore do and are so consistent in their games.

Bryant is similar to Wheaton in some ways. He has the physical gifts. He is very tall with good speed. He has better than expected burst coming out of his breaks. He can be a sloppy route runner at times. He can have some ugly drops which appear due to just not concentrating on making the catch. Good hands, solid when he catches with his hands. He high points well. Does a nice job of tracking the ball in the air. He can take passes from the DB and is really good with body position. I like the way he will often box out the DB, especially in the endzone, and use his size to make catches. Like Wheaton, he has the raw potential to be something special, but he has to translate it from college to the pros and from the practice/meeting rooms to the field.

Justin Brown is the guy everyone is talking about as potentially being the fifth WR. Brown has size, but he does not show great burst or speed in his game. He is a marginal athlete and his game is at its best under 20 yards. He can challenge deep, but does not really track the deep ball well. Moye is stronger with the ball in the air. Brown is better at running shorter routes, getting position, and securing the pass. Will be a difficult decision. Do you want a potential playmaker (Moye) or a chain mover (Brown).

I think the wildcard here will be the new WR. He has nice size, speed, quickness out of breaks, and solid hands. Raw. Very raw. But, he does have something. Former basketball player, should do well tracking the ball and should have strong hands.

It all depends on if these young guys can step up.


nicely done

[Psycho Ward 86]

i agree with mojouw. ESPECIALLY regarding the hype revolving around justin brown, im just not buying it yet. reminds me of the hype surrounding derek moye

[GBMelBlount]

i agree with mojouw. ESPECIALLY regarding the hype revolving around justin brown, im just not buying it yet. reminds me of the hype surrounding derek moye

Simplifying things:

Can Ben replace the 1,300 yards of last years #2 & #3 receivers with Moore & Wheaton (or whoever).

Probably.

I just don't see much drop off if any.

Ben always makes do with what he has.

[Shoes]

Some 2012 clips of Moore…I think he will be productive for the Steelers.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5gbXiQrTpoI&feature=kp

[GBMelBlount]

2:29. Very nice!

[Count Steeler]

Yeah, that was with Drew Brees. I hear Ben can't make those throws. :sarcasm:

[Shoes]

2:29. Very nice!

……and 4:20

[GBMelBlount]

……and 4:20

That's a big 10:4! lol

[zulater]

Nice find Shoes!

[tube517]

Too much showboating at 2:16 He should be fined and cut! :chuckle:

I've always liked Lance Moore as a #3 WR. He saved me in my only Fantasy Football League championship. :lol:

[Psycho Ward 86]

Simplifying things:

Can Ben replace the 1,300 yards of last years #2 & #3 receivers with Moore & Wheaton (or whoever).

Probably.

I just don't see much drop off if any.

Ben always makes do with what he has.

i agree with that too. thats not to say i think the #4 receiver's production will matter. Brown, Wheaton, Moore, Miller, and great catching weapons in Bell and Archer sounds good to me. Anything else is a bonus

[TMC]

I think the one thing that really stands out to me in the video clip of Moore, and it is something I love to see in wide receivers, even when Moore has to fully extend his arms to make the catch, the ball stops instantly in his hands. He snatches the ball out of the air. It is a little different than those with soft hands, who cradle it a little more, he snatches it out of the air. Strong hands. Love guys that can just reach out and pluck it from the air, stop it on a dime, and get it tucked.

Brown is a guy with soft hands. The ball cradles in his hands a little and rests, more than gets plucked from the sky. Both are fine, but guys that can snatch the ball from the air like Moore do not double or body catch as often. Here is Brown's 2013 highlights and you can see some body catching and cradling of passes. Again, not a knock on Brown, but just a difference.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BfLnyhgaBJc

Let me also add, if you watch Brown as a punt returner, he is really something special. The idea that one of these young guys will just take that job is a bit of a stretch to me. I realize he is your #1 WR, but he is a game changer as a punt returner. Lessen the load? Sure, but do you take that weapon off the field? If the idea is to get 3-4 splash plays in your return game, wouldn't he be the guy you want to deliver those plays (unless another guy just outperformed him)?

[GBMelBlount]

I don't see our passing game dropping off this year, especially with a better offensive line and more backfield talent.

So injuries aside I think 30 ppg is a possibility on offense this year.

I also think our defense will be improved.

add the strong finish to our 2013 season and I think 10 wins is very realistic.

[polamalubeast]

I don't see our passing game dropping off this year, especially with a better offensive line and more backfield talent.

So injuries aside I think 30 ppg is a possibility on offense this year.

I also think our defense will be improved.

add the strong finish to our 2013 season and I think 10 wins is very realistic.



30 PPG=480 points.....I do not think it's realistic

Last year, the 2nd best team in the NFL in PPG was 445 Points


If the steelers score 30 points per game, steelers will be 14-2 or 15-1

[GBMelBlount]

We averaged 27 ppg the last half of the season.

Ben has matured and is becoming unflappable imo.

Our line was average last year and with Pouncey, Munch and Tunch could be top 10 imo.

Tall order but I have a good feeling.

[steelreserve]

30 PPG=480 points.....I do not think it's realistic

Last year, the 2nd best team in the NFL in PPG was 445 Points


If the steelers score 30 points per game, steelers will be 14-2 or 15-1


Probably not every game - that IS unrealistic. You are going to have a few low-scoring games where it turns into a grind, or it's crappy conditions, or you're just not having your best day, so to make up for that you'd have to be scoring more like 45 points a game in the rest. Pretty unlikely.

However, I do think it's realistic to score 30 points a game on a regular basis if everything clicks, which has been the case for many of the past several seasons, but we've never quite realized that potential. This offense has a ton of potential, but also a ton of question marks. I've seen 5 or 6 times when they had the talent to be lights-out but ended up just OK, and this time I'd say there's slightly less talent and slightly more question marks than normal. Munchak's effect, Heath and Pouncey's recovery, Bell/Blount being effective in tandem, and a real #2 receiving threat to step up ... all of those have to go our way in order for us to have that level of success IMO. More likely we'll get half of them and not the other half, and end up just pretty good.

[Count Steeler]

There are 2 areas in the Steelers psyche that prevents us from scoring big numbers. If we get up early, we stop being aggressive and we choose to grind the clock as much as possible, usually causing games that should be blow outs to become unnecessary nail biters.

The second "failing" is the lack of adjustments. We want to play our game and we fail to exploit what defenses are giving us. We can be so stubborn at times, that we insist to run the ball, even when defenses load up the box with 8 or 9 defenders. Or we consistently try to throw deep and the defense is giving us the underneath patterns. I must say, this philosophy is evidenced more with Haley calling the plays. Ben is more "creative".

[GBMelBlount]

There are 2 areas in the Steelers psyche that prevents us from scoring big numbers.

(First) If we get up early, we stop being aggressive

and we choose to grind the clock as much as possible, usually causing games that should be blow outs to become unnecessary nail biters.

The second "failing" is the lack of adjustments.

We want to play our game and we fail to exploit what defenses are giving us. We can be so stubborn at times, that we insist to run the ball, even when defenses load up the box with 8 or 9 defenders. Or we consistently try to throw deep and the defense is giving us the underneath patterns. I must say, this philosophy is evidenced more with Haley calling the plays. Ben is more "creative".

TOTALLY agree.

I feel Ben is hungry again and knowing that his window is closing HOPEFULLY they will take off the reigns and let Ben do what he does best.

[Psycho Ward 86]

There are 2 areas in the Steelers psyche that prevents us from scoring big numbers. If we get up early, we stop being aggressive and we choose to grind the clock as much as possible, usually causing games that should be blow outs to become unnecessary nail biters.

The second "failing" is the lack of adjustments. We want to play our game and we fail to exploit what defenses are giving us. We can be so stubborn at times, that we insist to run the ball, even when defenses load up the box with 8 or 9 defenders. Or we consistently try to throw deep and the defense is giving us the underneath patterns. I must say, this philosophy is evidenced more with Haley calling the plays. Ben is more "creative".

This. Probably looking at a ceiling of 27PPG imo

[ALLD]

Low 20s ppg. Steelers rarely put anybody away in the first half and do just enough to win.

[tube517]

There are 2 areas in the Steelers psyche that prevents us from scoring big numbers. If we get up early, we stop being aggressive and we choose to grind the clock as much as possible, usually causing games that should be blow outs to become unnecessary nail biters.

The second "failing" is the lack of adjustments. We want to play our game and we fail to exploit what defenses are giving us. We can be so stubborn at times, that we insist to run the ball, even when defenses load up the box with 8 or 9 defenders. Or we consistently try to throw deep and the defense is giving us the underneath patterns. I must say, this philosophy is evidenced more with Haley calling the plays. Ben is more "creative".

In addition, the defense needs to create turnovers and sacks (something that has been lacking since 2011) and the special teams need to get decent field position. I'm sick of starting every drive 1st and 20 from our own 10 yard line. Hopefully all this team speed can help in these areas.

[Shoes]

There are 2 areas in the Steelers psyche that prevents us from scoring big numbers. If we get up early, we stop being aggressive and we choose to grind the clock as much as possible, usually causing games that should be blow outs to become unnecessary nail biters.

The second "failing" is the lack of adjustments. We want to play our game and we fail to exploit what defenses are giving us. We can be so stubborn at times, that we insist to run the ball, even when defenses load up the box with 8 or 9 defenders. Or we consistently try to throw deep and the defense is giving us the underneath patterns. I must say, this philosophy is evidenced more with Haley calling the plays. Ben is more "creative".

Right on Brother!

[GBMelBlount]

Low 20s ppg. Steelers rarely put anybody away in the first half and do just enough to win.

You have a knack of ruining things for us homers by introducing stupid facts and logic.

[Mojouw]

Not nearly as much as you think. If you can run the ball effectively, consistently put yourself in favorable down and distance situations and pass block then you can get by with some fairly average receivers. And by the way, Sanders and Cotchery were nothing special. I liked Cotch, but Lance Moore is at least his equal. The plays Sanders didn't make last year factored more into Steelers losses than the ones he did make into Steelers wins.

Were not exactly replacing Stallworth and Swann. There has been no net loss at the wr position. Barring injury I'd wager on that with anyone.,

Well that didn't work out. Now did it?

[zulater]

Well that didn't work out. Now did it?


Nope it didn't. But your heroes made the call's, not me. I was wrong for believing they knew what they had in Wheaton. Moore, yeah my bad. I suck Mr Genius.

[Mojouw]

Nope it didn't. But your heroes made the call's, not me. I was wrong for believing they knew what they had in Wheaton. Moore, yeah my bad. I suck Mr Genius.

I'm not the one demanding answers for every roster move ever made.

In one thread you demand answers for the cutting of Hoyer. Except you don't like the ones you are given. Then you demand that the WR's get improved, except you didn't think that was a problem 8 weeks ago.

So I get crap when I dare to defend the coaching staff folks for the Steelers and point out that a big part of the reason they are getting smoked week in and week out on the field is not some pshycological mystery or coaching strategy but the fact that they kind of stink?

[zulater]

I'm not the one demanding answers for every roster move ever made.

In one thread you demand answers for the cutting of Hoyer. Except you don't like the ones you are given. Then you demand that the WR's get improved, except you didn't think that was a problem 8 weeks ago.

So I get crap when I dare to defend the coaching staff folks for the Steelers and point out that a big part of the reason they are getting smoked week in and week out on the field is not some pshycological mystery or coaching strategy but the fact that they kind of stink?

You seem to think the coaches are maximizing the ability of available talent. Most of us don't. I think the offense in particuliar is underperforming relative to avaialable talent. I think we have a fair to average line. Certainly we've won with worse. I think AB, Ben, and Heath Mller are all above average. I think the Doobie Brothers are as good a backfield tandem as there is in the conference. The results don't equal the talent in my ignorant opinion.


The defense is being dragged down byn the offense in my opinion. Had the offense cashed in their opportunities I think the defense's job is much easier. but that's me, and I'm clearly an idiot. :doh:

[Mojouw]

You seem to think the coaches are maximizing the ability of available talent. Most of us don't. I think the offense in particuliar is underperforming relative to avaialable talent. I think we have a fair to average line. Certainly we've won with worse. I think AB, Ben, and Heath Mller are all above average. I think the Doobie Brothers are as good a backfield tandem as there is in the conference. The results don't equal the talent in my ignorant opinion.


The defense is being dragged down byn the offense in my opinion. Had the offense cashed in their opportunities I think the defense's job is much easier. but that's me, and I'm clearly an idiot. :doh:

RB is a real strength. I am in total agreement there.

Ben is well established strength and one of the top QB's in the league.

AB is one of the 5 best WRs in the game right now.

Miller is now an average TE. The talent at that position across the NFL is ludicrous right now. The WR's outside of AB are average at best. Wheaton seems to flash potential but really is miscast as a full time #2 at this point in his career. He plays the slot or situational role on a number of teams around the league in my opinion. I don't see a single player besides AB and Bell that changes a defense or causes a mismatch.

I think the line is well below average. Decastro and Pouncey are good to excellent perhaps, but the rest are below the line. The left side of the line is a mess in both pass protection and run blocking. The right side of the line is great in the run game - it is the side almost all of their big plays come from - and Gilbert still seems to be easily victimized by agile pass rushers.

The Steelers have an offense that can chug up and down the field between the 20's but then struggles in the red zone. I can get that. They have two weapons - AB on quick hitting pass plays or Bell over the right side. I kinda feel (gosh I hate to say this) but this is about what their talent gets them.

SHockingly, based on the preseason, this defense is getting hamstrung by the offense. I think we all thought it would be the other way around!

[zulater]

We have won with lesser offensive lines than we have now. I think foster is at least average. Beachum is defecient, but he's not much worse than Max Starks. Gilbert, major dissapointment, but still not terrible. At least not all the time. Miller probably is no better than average. But I still say this team isn't getting the most out of it's talent on offense.

[Count Steeler]

We just shoot ourselves in the foot way too often. The Red Zone has become our Dead Zone. WRs dropping balls, not on the same page with Ben, running different routes.

No spit and polish on this team. Practices are not effective if this is the end result.