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View Full Version : Vince Williams fights to regain inside edge at linebacker



stillers4me
06-07-2014, 08:02 AM
Vince Williams, by all accounts, had a representative rookie season for the Steelers. He started 11 games, more than first-round pick Jarvis Jones.

He was ranked among the top 30 inside linebackers in the NFL by Pro Football Focus, just one spot behind teammate Lawrence Timmons at No. 26.

All things considered, he had to be feeling pretty good heading into his second season.

At least until the NFL draft happened...........


Read more: http://www.post-gazette.com/sports/2014/06/07/On-the-Steelers-Vince-Williams-fights-to-regain-inside-edge-at-linebacker/stories/201406070057#ixzz33xSXcWX2

tube517
06-07-2014, 08:23 AM
Good to have him as a backup but I think they have other people in mind for starting ILBs.

fansince'76
06-07-2014, 08:42 AM
He was ranked among the top 30 inside linebackers in the NFL by Pro Football Focus, just one spot behind teammate Lawrence Timmons at No. 26.

"One spot behind Timmons," huh? Really? Is that why Troy was forced to play at ILB (badly) last season and we wound up going with ILB in the first round instead of CB?

Pro Football Focus' credibility = shot.

stillers4me
06-07-2014, 09:30 AM
Nothing like a good kick in the gut on draft day to motivate someone. If nothing else, it may push him a step or two to be better and improve our depth. Can't. Have. Enough. Depth.

Mojouw
06-07-2014, 10:37 AM
Doesn't matter how much Williams is motivated or applies himself to learning the game -- he is simply too athletically limited to man the spot full-time. Not a knock on the kid, just an acknowledgement that everything that was said about Williams from the pre-draft process through watching him perform his rookie year was true. Williams is a 2 down linebacker. Basically he is a slightly lesser version of Larry Foote.

GBMelBlount
06-07-2014, 12:43 PM
Doesn't matter how much Williams is motivated or applies himself to learning the game -- he is simply too athletically limited to man the spot full-time. Not a knock on the kid, just an acknowledgement that everything that was said about Williams from the pre-draft process through watching him perform his rookie year was true. Williams is a 2 down linebacker. Basically he is a slightly lesser version of Larry Foote.

Williams and Foote were the same height, weight, speed and position ranking (#9) coming into the draft.

So just curious how Foote did in his rookie year?....

LLT
06-07-2014, 01:06 PM
"One spot behind Timmons," huh? Really? Is that why Troy was forced to play at ILB (badly) last season and we wound up going with ILB in the first round instead of CB?

Pro Football Focus' credibility = shot.

This.

When we have to move players around to compensate....then you would think and hope a "site" would consider the fact that some of those stats were "funneled" to him.




Williams and Foote were the same height, weight, speed and position ranking (#9) coming into the draft.

So just curious how Foote did in his rookie year?....

Foot played in 14 games his rookie year with 20 total tackles...no sacks..no forced fumbles.

HollywoodSteel
06-07-2014, 02:44 PM
I have no idea how this silly ranking is done. You can't rank most positions in football on statistics, especially not any players in the front seven of 3-4 defense. It can't be done by some math formula. You have to watch game film and take into account everything that happens, not only with the player, but with everything that happens around the player. What is the player actually doing based on his assignment? What adjustments are being made to compensate for that players ability or lack there of (Troy being brought down to play LB to compensate for Williams, etc.) Try having actual defensive coaches in the NFL watch all the tape and see where they rank Timmons compared to Williams. I guarantee you, you'll get a much bigger gap between the two players. If Shazier plays up to his potential, I think you'll see Timmons emerge as one of the best inside linebackers in a 3-4 scheme, based entirely on what they ask him to do and how he delivers. You just can't rank these players in a vacuum.

I wonder where a dumb ranking system like this would put Aaron Smith in his prime. He was one of the best 3-4 DEs in the history of the NFL, if not THE best, but there's no way you'd know it by his stats alone. It just doesn't work like that.

Mojouw
06-07-2014, 04:26 PM
Williams and Foote were the same height, weight, speed and position ranking (#9) coming into the draft.

So just curious how Foote did in his rookie year?....

Didn't mean that either Foote nor Williams couldn't play in the NFL, but simply that both players are a bit limited in what they can be asked to do and expected to do well. Both Foote and Williams should and are capable of playing the run, providing pressure through designed inside blitzes, and chasing running backs down on the edge - at least to their side. What both players do not seem to be proficient at is blitzing and providing pressure outside of scheme, covering top tier TE's, turning and running with backs in the flat or shallow middle, and generally creating havoc through individual athleticism.

Not that these things mean that Williams or Foote are not capable of providing sound play at the ILB position, it is just that it seems (at least to me) that both are average or replacement level players. Shazier - on paper (big caveat there) - seems to be significantly above replacement.

GBMelBlount
06-07-2014, 04:28 PM
Didn't mean that either Foote nor Williams couldn't play in the NFL, but simply that both players are a bit limited in what they can be asked to do and expected to do well. Both Foote and Williams should and are capable of playing the run, providing pressure through designed inside blitzes, and chasing running backs down on the edge - at least to their side. What both players do not seem to be proficient at is blitzing and providing pressure outside of scheme, covering top tier TE's, turning and running with backs in the flat or shallow middle, and generally creating havoc through individual athleticism.

Not that these things mean that Williams or Foote are not capable of providing sound play at the ILB position, it is just that it seems (at least to me) that both are average or replacement level players. Shazier - on paper (big caveat there) - seems to be significantly above replacement.

Well put.