So, June 1st is coming up ...

[steelreserve]

Pretty soon we'll have all that Woodley $$$ to figure out what to do with. What is on your wish list to spend it on? Whether it's free agents who are still out there, extensions for our own guys, whatever.

Since we pushed RIGHT up against the cap in free agency, we'll have to use this not only to sign the rookies, but also as a buffer to sign players in case anyone gets injured during the season, etc. I'm guessing about $3M for the rookies, and another $1.5M-$2M as the buffer, which would let us sign about three players. So we already "spent" more than half of the money, which leaves us down to $3M-$3.5M of actual money that we get to spend; not quite the same as that big $8M figure we all heard about when it happened.


Still ... my hope is that we can use this to either:

1) Extend Worilds at a FLAT contract, not one of those backloaded clusterfucks that turns into another Woodley contract.

2) Extend Cortez Allen 2-3 years at a reasonable rate BEFORE the season starts, which is probably the only way he stays on the team past this year. Hopefully we've learned our lesson that whatever we do, with a player like this we have to place our bets NOW, not after the season. If we boom-or-bust it like we did with Keenan Lewis, either he succeeds and commands $7M and buh-bye ... we have to tag him and then mess up our already stupid cap ... or he doesn't do well enough to inspire confidence, and we're looking for another corner anyway. All three of those situations suck. I'd rather risk some small money now.

3) Depending on the DL situation, maybe bring back Keisel as insurance.

I guess there's another scenario in which we get Worilds off the tranny tag on a slightly backloaded deal and free up even more than the $3-$3.5M. That might allow us to do something bigger, like give Pouncey an extension. (We might also have to use up the $1.5M-$2M for in-season signings and free up money with another restructure if we're unlucky with injuries.) But in that case I would also rather it be close to flat, not hugely backloaded. No thanks to any more of that horseshit.

[86WARD]

Extend Ben.

Extend Pouncey.

Do NOT extend Worilds...yet.

Extend Allen.

Save the rest for injury and to see what veterans may be released later.

[Psycho Ward 86]

1) Extend Cameron Heyward
2) Extend Jason Worilds
3) Extend Maurkice Pouncey
4) Extend Cortez Allen
5) Extend Big Ben

In that order. The reason I put Cam there first is because I think out of him, worilds, pouncey, and cortez, he is the most "sure thing" to be a truly great player and stay healthy. Thats what he has shown thus far. Unlike worilds, he didnt play at a high level or just half the season. Unlike cortez, he didnt tease great potential in just a few starts and then suck when thrown to the lions (albeit, cortez did play through an injury and the defense was poor in general). He basically started the entire season and played like a budding superstar. Tuitt and Heyward are going to be absolute GOLD when we rush the passer with 2 down linemen.

Id say we have more to gain than to lose by extending worilds ASAP. I think this contract situation is a completely different animal from Woodley. The problem with Woodley's contract was that it was already backloaded (as most contracts are), and then severely backloaded by the time we restructured it 2-3 times. Woodley also had far more production than worilds by the time a contract got around. I dont think he's capable of demanding nearly that kind of money, but still fairly close to double digit millions should suffice Ill be fine with a $8-$8.5 million per year type deal in all honesty. If we cant keep worilds, thats not to say we'll be fucked at OLB (Slide shazier to OLB, Williams/Spence at ILB), but im not quite that confident in williams and spence yet. Hopefully that rando with the vikings that got a huge deal for doing nothing doesnt ruin it for us.

For all the durability complaints about Pouncey, he had really only missed 3 games in 3 seasons (4 if you count the superbowl) leading up to the freak accident aka Decastro throwing a Goldberg spear on his legs. Nothing he could do about that. Yes, he has missed pieces of other games but i think after years of stability at center, we have forgotten about the tragic sean mahan/justin hartwig days. i wont repeat that mistake anytime soon. By FAR the best fit in a ZBS that is inevitably going to be resurrected by Munchak who will make sure our 3x All-pro center maximizes his abilities. Id have pouncey at the bottom of this list if i werent anticipating another huge leap in the salary cap for next season. Obviously going to cost a lot, but i think we can do it.

Allen is still a budding superstar for me even though he was very so-so last season and absolutely horrid at times (See--> vikings game where he was the biggest game goat by far). Im willing to give him a pass since he was also injured. The fact that we only drafted a single cornerback in the late rounds seemed like a huge nod of confidence to me by 2 very good defensive coaches in Lebeau and Lake. An extension seems like it would be way cheap here and help us stuff him away for a long time at a bargain basement price. i dont see where the leverage is for him. Heres to hoping he isnt the next Mike Jenkins

The only reason ill put big ben last is because this just seems like a sure thing to me. Its only a matter of time

[vader29]

From Bouchette's blog today:


Staying with Worilds, I wrote today that there has been no progress on a contract extension for him and it looks as though he will play this year for that transition tender and then set to become a free agent again in 2015.

If you are the Steelers, what would you do? And if you are Worilds, what would you do?

His play in the second half of last season allowed the Steelers to dump LaMarr Woodley, who was rendered ineffective for the past 2 ½ years. It was costly, both in eating Woodley’s cap room and in paying Worilds nearly $10 million to keep him for another year.

Would the Steelers offer him a Sean Lee contract of six years, $42 million with a $10 million signing bonus? Worilds and his agent would laugh at that. He’s guaranteed nearly $10 million this year, why commit five more years for little more than the $10 million guaranteed he’s going to get this year anyway?

The Steelers could go a little higher, but based on Worilds’ history with them, how high could they go? They are not going to pull another LaMarr Woodley and give him that kind of deal (six years, $61.5 million in 2011). Woodley was coming off three straight seasons of at least 10 sacks. Worilds has 18 sacks in four seasons, including a team-high eight in 2013. When Woodley signed his contract, he also was under a one-year, $10 million deal as the team’s franchise player in 2011.

So it looks as if this impasse will remain, which leaves the Steelers where? Jarvis Jones, their other starter on the outside, started eight games as a rookie and was largely unimpressive. But he was the first rookie OLB to get that kind of playing time in Dick LeBeau’s defense so he gets a pass. He won’t get a pass this year. The Steelers need him to come on and do so immediately.

If Worilds has a monster season, he will want even more money. The Steelers can put the transition or franchise tag on him one more time and keep him through 2015. After that, they no longer can do so and he would be free in 2016. Of course, there is a lot of football left before then and many things can happen, but either way, the Steelers are thin at what traditionally has been their most productive position on defense. They may have to draft a linebacker in the first round for the third straight time in 2015.

http://sportsblogs.post-gazette.com/sports/steelers-steelers-blog/2014/05/28/Worilds-vs-Sean-Lee-Today/stories/201405280002

[HollywoodSteel]

From Bouchette's blog today:



http://sportsblogs.post-gazette.com/sports/steelers-steelers-blog/2014/05/28/Worilds-vs-Sean-Lee-Today/stories/201405280002

Yeah, I agree with Bouchette that the Worilds situation could complicate next year's draft. If a great OLB is there for us in the first round we might be forced to take him over a corner… again. And the odds of an OLB having a great impact as a rookie on this team are very slight. That makes extending Worilds especially valuable. It's not just about forcing a position of immediate need draft pick, it's that OLB takes time to develop in our scheme and it would really suck to have a year where we're weak at that spot given the studs we'll (hopefully) have by next year at the other three LB spots. Although, it would be interesting if we ended up with four 1st round picks starting at LB on this team. I'm no Steelers historian, but I can't imagine that's ever happened before. Actually, I wouldn't be surprised if it's never happened in the NFL before (among teams playing a 3/4 defense).

[steelreserve]

Thinking it through a little more, yeah, we might as well wait on the Worilds thing. Heyward is both more likely to be a solid player for years to come, and probably will be a better deal, and it totally slipped my mind that he is coming up for a new deal this year as well.

Worilds, on the other hand ... if we sign him this year, there's no way we're getting him cheaper than what we're already paying him, which at least in part was because of a super-thin free agent crop of pass rushers this offseason. And it's by no means a sure thing that he'll continue to produce. So the last thing we want to do is panic and get ourselves into another Woodley deal. About the only positive we can get from a Worilds deal at the current price is cap space in the immediate short term, which I am so used to us doing that I guess I just assumed that was the plan. Of course, that short-term cap space would come at the expense of making it into a Woodley contract, so ... yeah, no thanks. Sitting around waiting for nothing all offseason makes the brain go to mush a little bit, eh?

As for the idea of using a #1 pick on another OLB if Worilds leaves, I have one thought on the subject: FUCK THAT. Not under any circumstances. The sheer absurdity of the idea of starting four #1 draft picks at LB ought to be a clue that would be terrible. That would make seven #1 picks in a row on linebackers and linemen (and it should be noted, only the "common" lineman positions; e.g., no OTs or NTs), and the rest of the positions woefully neglected. We cannot keep doing that shit forever. Better to try and find your other OLB in the third round, move Shazier outside, sign a mid-range guy like Moats, whatever you gotta do other than that. Our entire defense does not depend on having two All-Pro OLBs; one really good OLB plus a good DL makes a merely adequate pass rusher on the other side look much better. I really hope we don't get caught up in our own hype to that extent.

[Psycho Ward 86]

Thinking it through a little more, yeah, we might as well wait on the Worilds thing. Heyward is both more likely to be a solid player for years to come, and probably will be a better deal, and it totally slipped my mind that he is coming up for a new deal this year as well.

Worilds, on the other hand ... if we sign him this year, there's no way we're getting him cheaper than what we're already paying him, which at least in part was because of a super-thin free agent crop of pass rushers this offseason. And it's by no means a sure thing that he'll continue to produce. So the last thing we want to do is panic and get ourselves into another Woodley deal. About the only positive we can get from a Worilds deal at the current price is cap space in the immediate short term, which I am so used to us doing that I guess I just assumed that was the plan. Of course, that short-term cap space would come at the expense of making it into a Woodley contract, so ... yeah, no thanks. Sitting around waiting for nothing all offseason makes the brain go to mush a little bit, eh?

As for the idea of using a #1 pick on another OLB if Worilds leaves, I have one thought on the subject: FUCK THAT. Not under any circumstances. The sheer absurdity of the idea of starting four #1 draft picks at LB ought to be a clue that would be terrible. That would make seven #1 picks in a row on linebackers and linemen (and it should be noted, only the "common" lineman positions; e.g., no OTs or NTs), and the rest of the positions woefully neglected. We cannot keep doing that shit forever. Better to try and find your other OLB in the third round, move Shazier outside, sign a mid-range guy like Moats, whatever you gotta do other than that. Our entire defense does not depend on having two All-Pro OLBs; one really good OLB plus a good DL makes a merely adequate pass rusher on the other side look much better. I really hope we don't get caught up in our own hype to that extent.

Teams like us that typically groom players for a couple of years dont have the luxury of waiting until players completely "prove" that they can be a good starter for some time. You need to take some risks and avoid some along the way. We fucked up with Woodley yes, but it also looks like we hit a home run on antonio brown even though we threw big money at him for one year of production. We also got fucked not signing keenan lewis and people tried to make themselves feel better by saying he isnt that good even though he hada pro bowl caliber year on one of the best pass defenses in the league. But then again, we also did an awesome job of letting mike wallace walk.

Paranoid prudency wont win in this league. That just leaves you having to search for replacements over and over in the draft and picking up scraps in free agency. Calculated risks like the examples listed above need to be taken. No one knows more about their homegrown talent than the home team.

The other positive to getting worilds a deal isnt just cap space in the immediate short term, it could also mean not having to search for another starting caliber OLB and getting good production at that (or so we hope). If vince williams, sean spence, or arthur moats looks REALLY good, then losing worilds would probably prove to be a reasonable move and we could just slide shazier outside, but theyre just question marks at this point. worilds is by far the surest thing at OLB. And thats taking into account jarvis jones of course. If worilds disappears and jones turns out to be a bust, that will set us back for a long time, much longer than any salary cap charge that a worilds extension will do against our favor imo.

[steelreserve]

Teams like us that typically groom players for a couple of years dont have the luxury of waiting until players completely "prove" that they can be a good starter for some time. You need to take some risks and avoid some along the way. We fucked up with Woodley yes, but it also looks like we hit a home run on antonio brown even though we threw big money at him for one year of production. We also got fucked not signing keenan lewis and people tried to make themselves feel better by saying he isnt that good even though he hada pro bowl caliber year on one of the best pass defenses in the league. But then again, we also did an awesome job of letting mike wallace walk.

Paranoid prudency wont win in this league. That just leaves you having to search for replacements over and over in the draft and picking up scraps in free agency. Calculated risks like the examples listed above need to be taken. No one knows more about their homegrown talent than the home team.

The other positive to getting worilds a deal isnt just cap space in the immediate short term, it could also mean not having to search for another starting caliber OLB and getting good production at that (or so we hope). If vince williams, sean spence, or arthur moats looks REALLY good, then losing worilds would probably prove to be a reasonable move and we could just slide shazier outside, but theyre just question marks at this point. worilds is by far the surest thing at OLB. And thats taking into account jarvis jones of course. If worilds disappears and jones turns out to be a bust, that will set us back for a long time, much longer than any salary cap charge that a worilds extension will do against our favor imo.

I wouldn't call it paranoid. To me, Worilds is the biggest question mark of all; we had three seasons in which he did exactly dick, and then one pretty good one -- PRETTY GOOD, mind you, not knock-it-out-of-the-park good. I'm not 100% sold on the idea that he's even the long-term answer there. No, we don't have anyone ready to take over for him, but that's no reason to hand out blockbuster deals. THAT, to me, is just as paranoid - fear of the unknown pushing you into a bad contract. If you spent $10M every time you didn't have a surefire starter behind the existing starter, you'd be flat broke in about 30 seconds, and we're not that far away from broke to begin with.

The other part that makes me take a step back is what that would do to our distribution of money and talent. $20M a year on two linebackers is a tough pill to swallow no matter how good they are, and IMO linebacker is a poor place to have that much salary concentrated. It's probably the easiest position to replace besides WR, and also second only to the offensive line as the position where one good player makes the least impact.

I don't know what the deal has been lately with going so overboard on the LB position compared to how we used to handle it, but to me it looks like since Tomlin came in (OR MAYBE ART ROONEY) we've gotten caught up in trying to live up to some larger-than-life caricature: "this is STEELERS FOOTBALL - Blitzburgh garrrrr!!" and we make these bombastic moves based on hype and swagger. Well, that's not what wins you games in the NFL either. In fact, when we were at our best, we were known for exactly the opposite - making the tough personnel calls over cash, and being good at finding replacements. We'd be perfectly fine at picking up pass rushers in the third round, or letting a guy walk over $5M, or having Clark Haggans as a starter even though he wasn't on pace for 1,000,000 sacks and 6 Pro Bowls, without panicking or handing him a huge contract. Or as you would call it, "paranoid prudency." Whatever name you give to it, that's not what we've been doing lately, and it's showing in the results.

[Steelerette]

The trouble with him signing the transition tender is that, if we do extend him we have to give him some pretty serious guaranteed money or else why would he even sign it? So we're on the hook for a chunk of change for him either way - we're in a position to be able to absorb it so pushing it back is a little risky.

I would be all for a frontloaded extension. Five years, but guarantee $10 mil this year, have the next four years be quite a bit more affordable but also including incentives etc. I think that's the best solution because, he'll still get his money now, if he really overperforms and exceeds expectations we can always reward him with the incentives and/or a re-extension... if he's meh, we're getting what we're paying for no harm no foul... plus if it comes down to it for some reason, we can get very nice return on a trade if he's good but has three pretty affordable years left on his contract.

[dislocatedday]

1) Extend Cameron Heyward
2) Extend Jason Worilds
3) Extend Maurkice Pouncey
4) Extend Cortez Allen
5) Extend Big Ben

In that order. The reason I put Cam there first is because I think out of him, worilds, pouncey, and cortez, he is the most "sure thing" to be a truly great player and stay healthy. Thats what he has shown thus far. Unlike worilds, he didnt play at a high level or just half the season. Unlike cortez, he didnt tease great potential in just a few starts and then suck when thrown to the lions (albeit, cortez did play through an injury and the defense was poor in general). He basically started the entire season and played like a budding superstar. Tuitt and Heyward are going to be absolute GOLD when we rush the passer with 2 down linemen.
.......

I don't disagree about Heyward and your assessment of him, but there is no reason to extend him this offseason. They just picked up his option year for 2015, so he is under contract for the next 2 seasons. Next year they could look at an extension.

[Count Hogan]

I don't disagree about Heyward and your assessment of him, but there is no reason to extend him this offseason. They just picked up his option year for 2015, so he is under contract for the next 2 seasons. Next year they could look at an extension.

If they find the cash then extending him now is a good risk to take. Right now he's got rising potential for sure but if he does have that monster season, he's going to get paid, brother.

[Psycho Ward 86]

The trouble with him signing the transition tender is that, if we do extend him we have to give him some pretty serious guaranteed money or else why would he even sign it? So we're on the hook for a chunk of change for him either way - we're in a position to be able to absorb it so pushing it back is a little risky.

I would be all for a frontloaded extension. Five years, but guarantee $10 mil this year, have the next four years be quite a bit more affordable but also including incentives etc. I think that's the best solution because, he'll still get his money now, if he really overperforms and exceeds expectations we can always reward him with the incentives and/or a re-extension... if he's meh, we're getting what we're paying for no harm no foul... plus if it comes down to it for some reason, we can get very nice return on a trade if he's good but has three pretty affordable years left on his contract.

long term financial security. players sometimes take that for granted and pay dearly for it, an example being dustin keller (avoided a multi year deal and played on a one year contract so that he could hopefully earn a bigger one. resulted in him tearing his acl before playing a down and losing that opportunity.)

I could be wrong, there rarely, if ever seems to be a frontloaded extension (except maybe if theres some huge signing bonus the first year, but thats only for one year) because that so drastically disadvantages the front office trying to sign a player. Nonetheless I find your logic for a front loaded extension very intriguing.

Not sure if anyone else has suggested it yet, but the only situation where id be cool with letting Worilds go is if Spence deems himself physically up to par. Then we could just slide Shazier out to OLB and have Spence be our mack ILB. By the time we have to worry about this type of scenario, spence will have 3 seasons under his belt so mentally it would appear that he has that aspect of the game down. Jones, Spence, Timmons, Shazier doesnt sound too shabby to me. Shazier played everywhere at OSU anyways

[steelreserve]

I don't disagree about Heyward and your assessment of him, but there is no reason to extend him this offseason. They just picked up his option year for 2015, so he is under contract for the next 2 seasons. Next year they could look at an extension.


If they find the cash then extending him now is a good risk to take. Right now he's got rising potential for sure but if he does have that monster season, he's going to get paid, brother.


Something I don't think most people realize is that Heyward's 2015 option year isn't cheap at all - it's $7 million. The idea that we're getting another inexpensive year out of his rookie contract is not true at all.

We've got every reason to re-sign him sooner rather than later. Otherwise $7M becomes the starting point for next year's negotiations, which means trouble brewing ("OK, if you won't give me more than that, why don't I just take the $7M, play out this one year and test the free agent market?"). Don't get me wrong; I like Heyward and think he's a solid player, but based on what he's shown so far, he's a $4M player, not a $7-$10M player. Same exact thing could be coming up with Allen, depending on how he does. Personally, I think it's better to try and make a deal early for medium money rather than wait until they hit outright free agency, in which case if they're any good at all, forget it.

[dislocatedday]

If they find the cash then extending him now is a good risk to take. Right now he's got rising potential for sure but if he does have that monster season, he's going to get paid, brother.
I didn't mention this previously, but I also think the CBA rules prevent the Steelers from even working on an extension to a rookie contract until one year is left (meaning they could not do anything until next off season with Heyward). I could be wrong about this, but this is what I remember.

Also, the Steelers will have to pay Heyward a hefty sum for that option year (5-7 million range I think)

[zulater]

If the Steelers resign Keisel after June I'll consider this a near perfecrt offseason.

[Dwinsgames]

If the Steelers resign Keisel after June I'll consider this a near perfecrt offseason.

Not sure if I would love or hate that move ....

the good ...

1) provides quality depth

2) leadership and veteran presence

3) knows the system as well as anyone

the bad ...

1) stunts growth of rookies

2) no upside as his best days are behind him

3) potentially keeps a player off the roster who could contribute when Keisel is nothing more than an after thought

for me it would make tons more sense to do the same sort of thing with Harrison but that is just me

[Shoes]

Lets just hope there is a *real leader* in the rookie class because this team hasn't had one for a long time. Players can talk about being a leader but the proof is in the walk.

[Steeldude]

I wouldn't call it paranoid. To me, Worilds is the biggest question mark of all; we had three seasons in which he did exactly dick, and then one pretty good one --

3 seasons riding the bench behind Woodley and Harrison. I assume they both took over 90% of all snaps. 1 season starting which he did produce. He also did well in spot-duty during the 2012 season.

That being said, he shouldn't be given a ridiculous contract. IMO, let the 2014 season play out to see how he does. Unless they can reach a fair contract with him before the season starts.

[Psycho Ward 86]

Lets just hope there is a *real leader* in the rookie class because this team hasn't had one for a long time. Players can talk about being a leader but the proof is in the walk.

Good chance that Heyward and Timmons are two of those leaders for the incoming season. And we always have Troy of course

[HollywoodSteel]

Lets just hope there is a *real leader* in the rookie class because this team hasn't had one for a long time. Players can talk about being a leader but the proof is in the walk.

I'm not sure what you mean by "a long time." When Farrior and Ward were around we had ample leadership on both sides of the ball. Last year certainly seemed like an awkward year where no one (besides Ben) seemed to pick up the slack and fill the leadership void to our satisfaction. I think AB started to, and this year he will make the next step now that he has the body of work to prove that he is worth following. Like Psych Ward said, I think Timmons and Heward are ready to fill that void on defense, especially Timmons (hopefully everyone here read that great article that was posted about him).

As for the next crop, I think J. Jones and S. Thomas are incredible character guys who are still in the learning phase and are eager sponges when the vets teach them stuff. They say that the best students eventually make the best leaders. Shazier seems like a team guy and eager student as well. I'm pretty optimistic as far as the next generation of leadership on the defense goes.

Other than AB, and Ben, I don't know too much about the leadership qualities of our guys on offense. I understand Pouncey is a pretty vocal leader as well. So again, I'm seeing this issue as glass half full, and continuing to fill up.

[steelreserve]

The last two seasons, we've seemed kind of adrift in the leadership department. Two years ago the Wallace and Mendenhall pouty bullshit seemed to seep its way into everything, and last year was kind of like eh, whatever. Maybe Clark was filling the esteemed veteran role a little, but honestly that came off more like a barking dog than a respected leader. Wherever leadership comes from, it would be a plus to have more of.

[Steelerette]

The last two seasons, we've seemed kind of adrift in the leadership department. Two years ago the Wallace and Mendenhall pouty bullshit seemed to seep its way into everything, and last year was kind of like eh, whatever. Maybe Clark was filling the esteemed veteran role a little, but honestly that came off more like a barking dog than a respected leader. Wherever leadership comes from, it would be a plus to have more of.For some reason I imagine Timmons taking up that mantle, and in epic fashion... Like "these years have taught me well. . . I've got this shit." Then charging forth, riding a steed across Heinz Field with the other Steelers behind him, with a sword held out, charging, to the tune of the guitar solo in "While my guitar gently weeps".

Epic.

[Shoes]

I'm not sure what you mean by "a long time." When Farrior and Ward were around we had ample leadership on both sides of the ball. Last year certainly seemed like an awkward year where no one (besides Ben) seemed to pick up the slack and fill the leadership void to our satisfaction. I think AB started to, and this year he will make the next step now that he has the body of work to prove that he is worth following. Like Psych Ward said, I think Timmons and Heward are ready to fill that void on defense, especially Timmons (hopefully everyone here read that great article that was posted about him).

As for the next crop, I think J. Jones and S. Thomas are incredible character guys who are still in the learning phase and are eager sponges when the vets teach them stuff. They say that the best students eventually make the best leaders. Shazier seems like a team guy and eager student as well. I'm pretty optimistic as far as the next generation of leadership on the defense goes.

Other than AB, and Ben, I don't know too much about the leadership qualities of our guys on offense. I understand Pouncey is a pretty vocal leader as well. So again, I'm seeing this issue as glass half full, and continuing to fill up.

While I believe Farrior and Ward were leaders I don't believe the were natural leaders and I think that is whats missing. It seems like many players relate experience to leadership. A natural leader doesn't necessarily have to have experience for others to recognize there is something special about this person. Lets hope there is a gem in the rookie class.

[Jaucer]

While I believe Farrior and Ward were leaders I don't believe the were natural leaders and I think that is whats missing. It seems like many players relate experience to leadership. A natural leader doesn't necessarily have to have experience for others to recognize there is something special about this person. Lets hope there is a gem in the rookie class.

IF you study history, great leaders very seldom seek out a leadership role. It is thrust upon them. That is why I think Timmons will be a great leader this year. He hasn't sought out a leadership role. There were others to do that until this year. Leadership has now been thrust upon him and I think he will respond in a very impressive way.

[Chidi29]

The trouble with him signing the transition tender is that, if we do extend him we have to give him some pretty serious guaranteed money or else why would he even sign it? So we're on the hook for a chunk of change for him either way - we're in a position to be able to absorb it so pushing it back is a little risky.

I would be all for a frontloaded extension. Five years, but guarantee $10 mil this year, have the next four years be quite a bit more affordable but also including incentives etc. I think that's the best solution because, he'll still get his money now, if he really overperforms and exceeds expectations we can always reward him with the incentives and/or a re-extension... if he's meh, we're getting what we're paying for no harm no foul... plus if it comes down to it for some reason, we can get very nice return on a trade if he's good but has three pretty affordable years left on his contract.

Really wouldn't agree with a frontloaded extension (I know, pessimist Chidi again). Not sure what the point of it is for the team. Rarely are contracts frontloaded anyway. Just backload it like the rest. Numbers that really matter anyway are the signing bonuses, anyway.

At one point, I was for inking him to a long-term deal but it's not like we really need the relief now anyway. Woodley cut will give us the money we need for the rest of the year. Worilds has eight weeks of production. I'm not giving him big-time money based off of that. Gotta show it again and over a full season.

[Count Steeler]

Let's not forget that Worilds is only visible if he plays the left side. Put him on the right and he gets washed out. Is that worth a long term deal at 10-12m per. I don't think so.

If Worilds thinks that highly of himself, let him chase that contract for us this year and let him walk. Or play him on the right side and get a bargain price.

Either way, I hope Shazier, Timmons, and Jones really blend well together. 3 out of the 4 pieces would be settled for the next little while.

[Mojouw]

Lots of good points here and too many to quote individually. But I see that there are kind of two camps. One is get Worilds signed past this season. The other is to make Worilds prove it and deal with it in the off-season. I guess I am in firmly in camp one. I may be holding my nose and closing my eyes, but camp one it is. Letting Worilds hit the open market would be a terrible idea.

Even though it is in a limited # of games, Worilds is the only LB on the roster with any track record of getting to the QB. And yes I know that it is only on the one side. Yes I know that it is in a limited sample. Yes I know that Jones did it in the SEC, but he has looked lost as an NFL pass rusher.

So if Worilds were to be allowed to leave, then who in the hell would rush the passer for this team?

I say try and get Worilds signed to a 10+ million per year extension now and hope he produces. It will look much better than a 14+ million dollar deal in a year if he does produce.

[GBMelBlount]

We have a lot of young and developing linebackers (including two first round picks in the past two years).

So our linebacker situation could look a lot better at the end of the year.

I am in Camp 2 unless Worilds can be had for well under 10 mil.

[Psycho Ward 86]

i would be baffled if worilds were able to command over $10 million a year. Maybe thats just me? How is that even possible if more accomplished, albeit, more seasoned pass-rushers like the following guys are earning the following amounts per year on their current contracts:

Lamaar Woodley: $6 million/year
Michael Bennett: $7 million/year
Jared Allen: $8 million/year
Michael Johnson: Just under $9 million a year
Demarcus Ware: $10 million/year
Julius Peppers: $10 million/year

I guess if theres one guy who could throw a wrench into negotiation matters is Everson Griffen??? Who will be getting $8.5 million/year with the vikings, which seems like a head scratcher looking strictly at his numbers.

But otherwise, the money all of the top pass rushers got in free agency (Orakpo was tagged) seem to indicate that worilds will most certainly not be touching $10 million a year

Looks more like an $8 million to $9 million dollar a year contract to me. Ill take it. Even less might not be out of the possibility if he really wants to stay.

[Chidi29]

I would expect Worilds to be in the market for a Paul Kruger type deal, probably slightly larger (guys always one-up the previous). Kruger got 5/40, Worilds probably 5/45.

[Mojouw]

i would be baffled if worilds were able to command over $10 million a year. Maybe thats just me? How is that even possible if more accomplished, albeit, more seasoned pass-rushers like the following guys are earning the following amounts per year on their current contracts:

Lamaar Woodley: $6 million/year
Michael Bennett: $7 million/year
Jared Allen: $8 million/year
Michael Johnson: Just under $9 million a year
Demarcus Ware: $10 million/year
Julius Peppers: $10 million/year

I guess if theres one guy who could throw a wrench into negotiation matters is Everson Griffen??? Who will be getting $8.5 million/year with the vikings, which seems like a head scratcher looking strictly at his numbers.

But otherwise, the money all of the top pass rushers got in free agency (Orakpo was tagged) seem to indicate that worilds will most certainly not be touching $10 million a year

Looks more like an $8 million to $9 million dollar a year contract to me. Ill take it. Even less might not be out of the possibility if he really wants to stay.

Age was a factor for all the comps on that list.

Here is the most current list I could find for pass rushers in a 4-3 -- http://overthecap.com/top-player-salaries.php?Position=43DE as well as 3-4 -- http://overthecap.com/top-player-salaries.php?Position=34OLB

The common factor for all the guys on that list is that they were signed in the 2nd or 3rd round of free agency. If both Orakpo and Worilds were to hit the market, Orakpo would go first and then Worilds. The market will drive the price up. I'm not sure that Worilds deserves now (or ever will) top $$'s. I'm just saying that it will be far cheaper and offer way more stability to do it now rather than (IF) he were to have another good year.

[steelreserve]

Lots of good points here and too many to quote individually. But I see that there are kind of two camps. One is get Worilds signed past this season. The other is to make Worilds prove it and deal with it in the off-season. I guess I am in firmly in camp one. I may be holding my nose and closing my eyes, but camp one it is. Letting Worilds hit the open market would be a terrible idea.

Even though it is in a limited # of games, Worilds is the only LB on the roster with any track record of getting to the QB. And yes I know that it is only on the one side. Yes I know that it is in a limited sample. Yes I know that Jones did it in the SEC, but he has looked lost as an NFL pass rusher.

So if Worilds were to be allowed to leave, then who in the hell would rush the passer for this team?

Who would be the pass rusher ... whoever, that's who. We'd need to trust that either of our TWO #1 DRAFT PICKS AT OLB IN SUCCESSIVE YEARS could do that job, and find someone else who's OK to play either ILB or OLB, depending on whether Jones or Shazier is the good pass rusher. If we can't do that, we just need to smack ourselves in the face with a blunt object, such as a dictionary, for being so terrible at the draft.

(Hint: Before people go all "BUT THEN WE'D HAVE TO GO LOOKING FOR ANOTHER PLAYER OMG WED HAVE TO USE ANOTHER FIRST ROUND DRAFT PICK TO REPLACE WORILDS!!!!!" - no. We'd just have to find an OK player at either LB position. We might already have such a player on the roster in Arthur Moats. I'll pause for a moment to allow time for you to get your panties out of a wad.)


I say try and get Worilds signed to a 10+ million per year extension now and hope he produces. It will look much better than a 14+ million dollar deal in a year if he does produce.


The more I think about it, the more I believe the tranny tag on Worilds was just a move to buy time and figure out who his replacement is, and 90% we let him walk next offseason no matter what. He plays shitty, he's not worth keeping; next man up, and thank God we dodged another Woodley contract. Neo would be proud. He plays great, that's a contract we can't afford, and letting it be someone else's $14M problem is better than letting it be our $14M problem or even our $10M problem.

The only reason he might stay is the slight chance that the free agent market breaks our way next year - more pass rushers hit the market, and he's #6 or #7 on the list instead of #1 or #2. Really the only reason "Jason Worilds" and "$10 million" were ever even mentioned in the same sentence was because we got a TERRIBLE break in the market and almost no good pass rushers were available. That probably doubled his asking price. If things go a little better this coming March, maybe he has the same production but is worth $6M or $7M because most of the really big money is off the table by the time his name is called. I don't really know the outlook for that, just guessing. Maybe our own cap situation is a little better by then too, and that's what we're waiting for. In either case, doing this year as a one-season trial does seem like it might be the right move.

[Count Hogan]

We technically used two first rounders in a row at OLB but, Shazier is an ILB for us. Even if Worilds walks, I'd bank on Shazier staying inside.

But I'm not as worried as some people are. DON'T CROSS THE MOATS, BROTHER! We've got a nice piece of depth in Moats who is certainly an OLB for us especially after how crowded we got at ILB. We've got a super sleeper in Howard Jones. And I guess Carter can ride along.

[Mojouw]

The more I think about it, the more I believe the tranny tag on Worilds was just a move to buy time and figure out who his replacement is, and 90% we let him walk next offseason no matter what. He plays shitty, he's not worth keeping; next man up, and thank God we dodged another Woodley contract. Neo would be proud. He plays great, that's a contract we can't afford, and letting it be someone else's $14M problem is better than letting it be our $14M problem or even our $10M problem.

The only reason he might stay is the slight chance that the free agent market breaks our way next year - more pass rushers hit the market, and he's #6 or #7 on the list instead of #1 or #2. Really the only reason "Jason Worilds" and "$10 million" were ever even mentioned in the same sentence was because we got a TERRIBLE break in the market and almost no good pass rushers were available. That probably doubled his asking price. If things go a little better this coming March, maybe he has the same production but is worth $6M or $7M because most of the really big money is off the table by the time his name is called. I don't really know the outlook for that, just guessing. Maybe our own cap situation is a little better by then too, and that's what we're waiting for. In either case, doing this year as a one-season trial does seem like it might be the right move.


That might be the way it does all work out. I think you might have me convinced that the Steelers ride this year out and see what they have with some of these unproven guys. The trouble is they may need to think about doing something that they have been reluctant to do in the past -- get snaps for more than the top 4 Lbs. To truly see what is behind the starters, Moats, Spence, Carter, etc are going to have to get some chances to play besides OTA's and training camp. Maybe sub some guys in in specialized situations?

[steelreserve]

I don't know why there's such a strong commitment to the idea that Shazier MUST be the second ILB, and ONLY an ILB now and forever. Yes, that's what we drafted him for and it's what we're using him for now, but seems he can play either if needed. If spending some time at OLB was the best way to keep us from having a weak link, I hope the coaching staff would be smart enough to see that and make adjustments. (Notice that I said "I hope," not "I'm sure," because with this group, who knows; stubbornness and being set in our ways seems to win out over adaptability most of the time.)

Carter - who even cares. We can keep him around if we need bodies to fill out the special teams lineup, I guess. But I have zero expectation of him contributing anything meaningful as a position player.

[steelreserve]

That might be the way it does all work out. I think you might have me convinced that the Steelers ride this year out and see what they have with some of these unproven guys. The trouble is they may need to think about doing something that they have been reluctant to do in the past -- get snaps for more than the top 4 Lbs. To truly see what is behind the starters, Moats, Spence, Carter, etc are going to have to get some chances to play besides OTA's and training camp. Maybe sub some guys in in specialized situations?

My hope is that Moats will see the field a lot, and Spence a fair bit as well. With four LB positions, chances are good that someone's going to be banged up at any given time and need a rest.

If the Worilds thing doesn't work out for us, ideally what happens in the background is Moats or Spence gets enough snaps for us to know that they're good, but not enough to attract a lot of attention, so we can sign them for a couple million and a chance to start, not Super Jackpot Bidding War.

In that scenario, if it's Spence, I could easily see him remaining with the team for a medium-sized deal just because of all the other crap that he went through, and the team sticking with him for all of it. If it's Moats, who knows. He might be pissed off right now because he thought he was signing a one-year "prove-it" deal with a chance to compete for a starting job, and now we went and drafted over him and he doesn't even get a good chance to prove it. It's funny how these things turn out sometimes, though. Maybe the season turns out great for him and he turns around and says "I love Pittsburgh, what a great team, etc. etc." and wants to re-sign anyway.

Who the hell knows, though. I'm some dickhead on the Internet, not a psychologist.

[Psycho Ward 86]

Personally, im cool with Shazier playing whever at LB for us. Im just worried that whats behind him is going to hamper us. Ill be rooting for Spence to win that spot if worilds leaves, but no one has any real idea of where he's at. Even if he's 100% healthy, how good/bad is he realy?

[Steelerette]

I don't know. I think Shazier probably can play OLB, but it's been so long since our ILB duo was actually solid. I mean even once we got Farrior, Kendrell declined, and we got years of Larry Foote beside him... unless Shazier really really doesn't work out inside (I doubt it), I would rather keep him there and roll with Moats or Spence outside.

I would rather see Harrison, and maybe even Howard Johnson, than Carter though, if it came down to using fourth stringers. Keeping Carter could be a mistake because say at OLB we have not one, but multiple injuries, I don't think anyone could argue that playing Carter is a better idea than seeing what happens if we move Spence or Shazier or some bozo off the street, to OLB.