A look at the Steelers receiving corps

[Shoes]

This one examines what the Steelers have as receiving options at WR, TE, and RB, and what the Steelers want to have. The follow-up will consider the likeliest answers who will be available in the draft ... and particularly in Day 3 of the draft.

http://www.behindthesteelcurtain.com/2014/4/27/5656330/steelers-depth-chart-wide-receivers-2014-nfl-draft

[slashsteel]

I think you could see two receivers come from this draft as well as a change of pace back.

Wheaton could really make this unit shine if he has a solid year........... As well as Blount helping out in short yardage and the red zone.............

[GBMelBlount]

Agreed.

The effectiveness of the receiving corp may largely hinge on Wheaton's development this year.

[MrPgh]

I think if the Steelers draft a WR in one of the first two rounds, then Wheaton could be moved into the slot. Too bad the Steelers didn't play him more. The worst he would have done was drop passes, which is exactly what Sanders did and he kept playing.

[Psycho Ward 86]

i disgaree with the notion about the receivers. how do we expect to finally have success in the red zone when we have 3 midgets as our top 3 receivers (at the moment) and a so-so red zone tight end in heath miller? if we pick up any sort of receiver that isnt big, fine, but that will only help us move between the 20 yard lines. We already have the players for that, or at least we are counting on it

[Mojouw]

Maybe Todd Haley is watching a ton of film of the '80's era Broncos and their smurf wide receivers?

[Dwinsgames]

Maybe Todd Haley is watching a ton of film of the '80's era Broncos and their smurf wide receivers?

or Oilers with the " real blue smurfs"

[ALLD]

We need another big pass catching TE and an OL to give BB time to throw the ball. Also use the quick slant, dump off out of the backfield and safety valve to increase completion percentage. Mix it up. At least it is not as predictable as BA.

[Mojouw]

or Oilers with the " real blue smurfs"

I knew I forgot one! Broncos were the "3 Amigos" not the smurfs.

Wasn't Haywood Jeffries pretty tall?

[Dwinsgames]

I knew I forgot one! Broncos were the "3 Amigos" not the smurfs.

Wasn't Haywood Jeffries pretty tall?


he was the only one with any real height to him rest 5'8-5'10 ish if memory serves

[tube517]

or Oilers with the " real blue smurfs"

Or the Foreskins with the original "Smurfs"

Sent from my GT-N7105 using Tapatalk

[Steelerette]

he was the only one with any real height to him rest 5'8-5'10 ish if memory serves

Still that was practically a pro-bowl squad they had at WR down there in Houston. They converted Givens to TE, midget, didn't really block, but damned good too. So height isn't everything. Though of course, at least one would be nice.

[Psycho Ward 86]

Still that was practically a pro-bowl squad they had at WR down there in Houston. They converted Givens to TE, midget, didn't really block, but damned good too. So height isn't everything. Though of course, at least one would be nice.

if you dont want to score in the red zone

[Drazo85]

Does anybody has any information about recovery of Danario Alexander? He tore his ACL in preseason last year. He is 6`5 and he would add a height to our receiving corps. Of course as long as he is healthy.

[Psycho Ward 86]

Does anybody has any information about recovery of Danario Alexander? He tore his ACL in preseason last year. He is 6`5 and he would add a height to our receiving corps. Of course as long as he is healthy.

4 torn acl's. no thanks

[Dwinsgames]

many might find this a bit shocking ....


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BmZABBhCcAEYzwe.jpg:large

[Mojouw]

Does anybody has any information about recovery of Danario Alexander? He tore his ACL in preseason last year. He is 6`5 and he would add a height to our receiving corps. Of course as long as he is healthy.

I think Alexander's knees are currently the consistency and strength of cole-slaw.

http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/5821/danario-alexander

But he did look dominant the only time he was ever healthy in his career. SHame.

- - - Updated - - -


many might find this a bit shocking ....


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BmZABBhCcAEYzwe.jpg:large

I'm looking at it and I don't see what I am supposed to be shocked by? But, then again, I am dense.

[Dwinsgames]

I'm looking at it and I don't see what I am supposed to be shocked by? But, then again, I am dense.

the pure fact that of ALL the WR in the NFL that ran 30 or more post routes in 2013 Nate Washington was the 4th most successful in yards per pattern and that his name is even mentioned among the likes of Calvin Johnson

[Psycho Ward 86]

the pure fact that of ALL the WR in the NFL that ran 30 or more post routes in 2013 Nate Washington was the 4th most successful in yards per pattern and that his name is even mentioned among the likes of Calvin Johnson

ehhh these are pretty obscure statistics, a lot of variables could play into it probably. Back on topic, to those who dont have a problem with having the 3 midget musketeers compose the top of our WR depth chart, remind when the last time was when we were actually good in the red zone? Or even in the upper 1/3rd in the league in scoring? Yeah, exactly. Lets not pretend we dont "need" a big tall receiver. After 2 mediocre seasons, we arent in a position to say that anymore.Im going to have to respectfully disagree that our top 3 can replicate what the broncos, oilers, and redskins did. Dear lord baby jesus, just give me ONE big fella. Just one

[Steelerette]

Well, what do we have

Brown 5'10"
Wheaton 5'11"
Moore 5'9"

Those are the only three I'd guarantee at this point will be on the opening day roster.

On the bubble -

Heyward-Bey 6'2" - not a midget but he's not a possession receiver either, okay fine.
Derek Moye - 6'5"
Justin Brown 6'3"
Jasper Collins 6'0"

Either Moye or Brown making the team combined with Heath on the field will pretty much settle that "big redzone target" you're after IMO.

It's also my opinion we're going to draft one WR... maybe two if either a crazy value falls to us *or* just a day-3 flier in general. So let's look at potential draft targets.

Mike Evans 6'4" 1st
Odell Beckham 5'11" 1st-2nd
Kelvin Benjamin 6'5" 1st-2nd
Donte Moncrief 6'2" 2nd
Martavis Bryant 6'3" 2nd-3rd
Jordan Matthews 6'3" 3rd
Brandon Coleman 6'6" 3rd (TE conversion project?)
Jared Abbrederis 6'1" 3rd-4th
Devin Street 6'3" 4th-5th
Jeff Janis 6'3" 6th-7th

Hardly exhaustive of course but here's most of the tall ones, plus a couple extra who have had buzz around here. Now to me, if they pick Moncrief or someone shorter than him, the team isn't nearly worried about the "big receiver" thing as some of the fans are.

Evans would be nice but I just don't think we can afford to miss out on Dennard if he's there. I'm not so sure I wouldn't rather grab Hageman or Mosley or Gilbert than him either.

Benjamin scares me. He could be Keyshawn Johnson or he could be a fat Limas Sweed.

I'd be pretty happy if we went Dennard-Tuitt and grabbed our WR in the 3rd or 4th. Or you never know - if the team is confident in Wheaton and not worried about having a big-guy, we may not even grab one until late.

The draft could go anywhere but either way I don't think the WR corps is going to be one of the team's shortcomings this coming season.

[Mojouw]

ehhh these are pretty obscure statistics, a lot of variables could play into it probably. Back on topic, to those who dont have a problem with having the 3 midget musketeers compose the top of our WR depth chart, remind when the last time was when we were actually good in the red zone? Or even in the upper 1/3rd in the league in scoring? Yeah, exactly. Lets not pretend we dont "need" a big tall receiver. After 2 mediocre seasons, we arent in a position to say that anymore.Im going to have to respectfully disagree that our top 3 can replicate what the broncos, oilers, and redskins did. Dear lord baby jesus, just give me ONE big fella. Just one

In 2002 and 2003 (Burress two best statistical seasons with the Steelers) they scored on around 1/3 (35% and 27%)of their drives. In 2013 they scored on slightly better than 1/3 (35%) of their offensive drives.

I am having trouble finding #'s over time for red zone efficiency. But I will say this, I am not certain that a tall WR has any impact on that # at all. I think that having a solid protection scheme that keeps pass-rushers off the QB and then can also open actual running lanes for the backs would help red zone efficiency. If I remember correctly, when the Steelers have been good in the red zone, it was never due to overwhelming skill position talent, but a solid wall up-front.

It all starts there. A high talent OT would likely have more of an impact on red zone efficiency next season than a tall WR.

[Craic]

In 2002 and 2003 (Burress two best statistical seasons with the Steelers) they scored on around 1/3 (35% and 27%)of their drives. In 2013 they scored on slightly better than 1/3 (35%) of their offensive drives.

I am having trouble finding #'s over time for red zone efficiency. But I will say this, I am not certain that a tall WR has any impact on that # at all. I think that having a solid protection scheme that keeps pass-rushers off the QB and then can also open actual running lanes for the backs would help red zone efficiency. If I remember correctly, when the Steelers have been good in the red zone, it was never due to overwhelming skill position talent, but a solid wall up-front.

It all starts there. A high talent OT would likely have more of an impact on red zone efficiency next season than a tall WR.

IMPOSSIBLE! When Jerome Bettis was here and Cowher was coach, they scored on 90 percent of their offensive drives!

[steelreserve]

I would say our problem was we do have a high-talent OL, but a low-talent OL coach. I'm hoping the addition of Munchak will fix that. And also make it unnecessary to take any more goddamn linemen so early in the draft. We already have enough #1 and #2 OL picks on our roster to last a lifetime.

[Psycho Ward 86]

Well, what do we have

Brown 5'10"
Wheaton 5'11"
Moore 5'9"

Those are the only three I'd guarantee at this point will be on the opening day roster.

On the bubble -

Heyward-Bey 6'2" - not a midget but he's not a possession receiver either, okay fine.
Derek Moye - 6'5"
Justin Brown 6'3"
Jasper Collins 6'0"

Either Moye or Brown making the team combined with Heath on the field will pretty much settle that "big redzone target" you're after IMO.

It's also my opinion we're going to draft one WR... maybe two if either a crazy value falls to us *or* just a day-3 flier in general. So let's look at potential draft targets.

Mike Evans 6'4" 1st
Odell Beckham 5'11" 1st-2nd
Kelvin Benjamin 6'5" 1st-2nd
Donte Moncrief 6'2" 2nd
Martavis Bryant 6'3" 2nd-3rd
Jordan Matthews 6'3" 3rd
Brandon Coleman 6'6" 3rd (TE conversion project?)
Jared Abbrederis 6'1" 3rd-4th
Devin Street 6'3" 4th-5th
Jeff Janis 6'3" 6th-7th

Hardly exhaustive of course but here's most of the tall ones, plus a couple extra who have had buzz around here. Now to me, if they pick Moncrief or someone shorter than him, the team isn't nearly worried about the "big receiver" thing as some of the fans are.

Evans would be nice but I just don't think we can afford to miss out on Dennard if he's there. I'm not so sure I wouldn't rather grab Hageman or Mosley or Gilbert than him either.

Benjamin scares me. He could be Keyshawn Johnson or he could be a fat Limas Sweed.

I'd be pretty happy if we went Dennard-Tuitt and grabbed our WR in the 3rd or 4th. Or you never know - if the team is confident in Wheaton and not worried about having a big-guy, we may not even grab one until late.

The draft could go anywhere but either way I don't think the WR corps is going to be one of the team's shortcomings this coming season.

In 2002 and 2003 (Burress two best statistical seasons with the Steelers) they scored on around 1/3 (35% and 27%)of their drives. In 2013 they scored on slightly better than 1/3 (35%) of their offensive drives.

I am having trouble finding #'s over time for red zone efficiency. But I will say this, I am not certain that a tall WR has any impact on that # at all. I think that having a solid protection scheme that keeps pass-rushers off the QB and then can also open actual running lanes for the backs would help red zone efficiency. If I remember correctly, when the Steelers have been good in the red zone, it was never due to overwhelming skill position talent, but a solid wall up-front.

It all starts there. A high talent OT would likely have more of an impact on red zone efficiency next season than a tall WR.

i do not want scrubs that just happen to be on this team. And i most certainly am not looking for big scrub receivers that are lazy. If i just wanted a random big receiver then id be satisfied because we have derek moye/justin brown to loiter around and do absolutely nothing. Therefore, out of the before-mentioned receivers im only interested in:

Mike Evans 6'4" 1st
Donte Moncrief 6'2" 2nd
Jordan Matthews 6'3" 3rd
Jared Abbrederis 6'1" 3rd-4th
Devin Street 6'3" 4th-5th
Jeff Janis 6'3" 6th-7th

im excluding beckham not just because he doesnt fit the profile, but because i think we can get far better value later. And im including abbrederis because i think he's tremendously savvy and maybe the most underrated receiver in the draft. Oh, and im also biased because im a badger :lol:.

jordan matthews would be a dream. jordan matthews = jordy nelson

and also, Plaxico was a lazy, body-catching, alligator arming big receiver. i dont want a big receiver at the cost of having that kind of crap on the team.

[Mojouw]

But Plaxico was tall and tall WR's fix everything! I agree that a dominat physical mismatch of a WR would be a great thing to have. Only caveat being that I do not think there is a player that the Steelers will be in a position to draft that will really turn things around as a rookie.

As to the OL; this will be a an incredibly telling draft. If the take a OL in the first 3 rounds, then we will all have Munchak's answer on the talent the Steelers got for their high draft picks.
If we are quiet on that front until round 4 or later, then I would take that to mean that Munchak thinks he can work with the top 6-8 guys.

[Dwinsgames]

I'm not so sure I wouldn't rather grab Hageman or Mosley or Gilbert than him either.



If we draft Hageman in the first I might just shoot myself

[Shoes]

If we draft Hageman in the first I might just shoot myself

:chuckle:

[tube517]

IMPOSSIBLE! When Jerome Bettis was here and Cowher was coach, they scored on 90 percent of their offensive drives!

:rofl2:

[one side only]

A big tight end would do wonders for offensive production. How about Troy Niklas in the second?

[Shoes]

A big tight end would do wonders for offensive production. How about Troy Niklas in the second?

I don't think it will happen, but would be okay with it if it did. Ebron, Niklas, CJ …just so we get one of them.

[Steelerette]

I wonder if post June-1 and post medical clearances, if some more looks at Jermichael are in the cards.

[TMC]

In 2002 and 2003 (Burress two best statistical seasons with the Steelers) they scored on around 1/3 (35% and 27%)of their drives. In 2013 they scored on slightly better than 1/3 (35%) of their offensive drives.

I am having trouble finding #'s over time for red zone efficiency. But I will say this, I am not certain that a tall WR has any impact on that # at all. I think that having a solid protection scheme that keeps pass-rushers off the QB and then can also open actual running lanes for the backs would help red zone efficiency. If I remember correctly, when the Steelers have been good in the red zone, it was never due to overwhelming skill position talent, but a solid wall up-front.

It all starts there. A high talent OT would likely have more of an impact on red zone efficiency next season than a tall WR.

In 2005, the year the Steelers won the Super Bowl, they were 4th in the NFL in redzone scoring. The WRs on roster were Hines Ward, Cedric Wilson, and ARE. Ward was the tallest at 5'11.5".

In 2008, when they won again, the receivers were Ward, Holmes, and Washington with Washington as the tallest. He is 6003. In 2010, when they went back to the Super Bowl, Mike Wallace was the tallest at 6003.

Victor Cruz, James Jones, and Wes Welker always seem to find the endzone and none of them are over 6'1". A lot of people point towards those "tall" WRs, but most of the prolific scorers are also very fast and can challenge DBs in a variety of ways. I think it should also be noted that big WRs like that seldom find a niche if they fail as a starter. They lack the tools needed to move down to play the slot (because quickness out of your breaks is important). So, many times, it is a boom or bust scenario. Some exceptions, but most are boom or bust.

With all that said, if the right tall WR is there, I am all over him. Of course, if the right short WR is there, I am taking him too.

[Mojouw]

In 2005, the year the Steelers won the Super Bowl, they were 4th in the NFL in redzone scoring. The WRs on roster were Hines Ward, Cedric Wilson, and ARE. Ward was the tallest at 5'11.5".

In 2008, when they won again, the receivers were Ward, Holmes, and Washington with Washington as the tallest. He is 6003. In 2010, when they went back to the Super Bowl, Mike Wallace was the tallest at 6003.

Victor Cruz, James Jones, and Wes Welker always seem to find the endzone and none of them are over 6'1". A lot of people point towards those "tall" WRs, but most of the prolific scorers are also very fast and can challenge DBs in a variety of ways. I think it should also be noted that big WRs like that seldom find a niche if they fail as a starter. They lack the tools needed to move down to play the slot (because quickness out of your breaks is important). So, many times, it is a boom or bust scenario. Some exceptions, but most are boom or bust.

With all that said, if the right tall WR is there, I am all over him. Of course, if the right short WR is there, I am taking him too.

All of that is why Benjamin scares the crap out of me in this draft. Apparently the Steelers have him high on the board (http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/9321/kelvin-benjamin) but across the NFL opinion seems divided at best (http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/9321/kelvin-benjamin).

He seems like a boom or bust guy with no in between. If he is a monster in the red zone and along the sideline, he can be an excellent player. If he struggles and never masters the rest of the route tree, you have a tall version of Troy Edwards. Hopefully it won't be an issue, but the idea that the Steelers have him high makes me really nervous.

[TMC]

Well, all the big WRs have warts of some type. The real question is, which warts do you think you can remove or overlook?

Unless I felt a WR was a no-miss slam dunk in the first, I would rather wait. In a draft deep at the position, I think you could double down later and improve your chances of finding a good one. One thing the Steelers have done fairly well lately is find good WRs.

[Shoes]

In 2005, the year the Steelers won the Super Bowl, they were 4th in the NFL in redzone scoring. The WRs on roster were Hines Ward, Cedric Wilson, and ARE. Ward was the tallest at 5'11.5".

In 2008, when they won again, the receivers were Ward, Holmes, and Washington with Washington as the tallest. He is 6003. In 2010, when they went back to the Super Bowl, Mike Wallace was the tallest at 6003.

Victor Cruz, James Jones, and Wes Welker always seem to find the endzone and none of them are over 6'1". A lot of people point towards those "tall" WRs, but most of the prolific scorers are also very fast and can challenge DBs in a variety of ways. I think it should also be noted that big WRs like that seldom find a niche if they fail as a starter. They lack the tools needed to move down to play the slot (because quickness out of your breaks is important). So, many times, it is a boom or bust scenario. Some exceptions, but most are boom or bust.

With all that said, if the right tall WR is there, I am all over him. Of course, if the right short WR is there, I am taking him too.


Thats about how I see it also. But not Benjamin unless he's available in a later round.

[HollywoodSteel]

Well, all the big WRs have warts of some type. The real question is, which warts do you think you can remove or overlook?

Unless I felt a WR was a no-miss slam dunk in the first, I would rather wait. In a draft deep at the position, I think you could double down later and improve your chances of finding a good one. One thing the Steelers have done fairly well lately is find good WRs.

I'm not a big college football guy so I just go by what I hear this time of year, but if Evans is there it might be a decision. If we have to choose between the 2nd best receiver in the draft and the 2nd best corner, I'd probably breath a little easier if we take the corner. Especially since it seems like there will be receivers in the 2nd and 3rd rounds that would still be make Psycho Ward happy. :)

[Steelerette]

As much as I would rather fill another position in the 1st, the only way I'll really be against Evans is if Dennard is still there... and if they do get Evans I can't see how I would really be mad about it. Though lamenting the loss of other choices of course.

I will be pissed if the first rounder, sans a trade-down, is Benjamin or Odell though.

[steelreserve]

I really don't follow all this talk about how not having a tall WR hurts you so much in the red zone. How often does it come down to out-jumping a guy by 3 inches in the end zone and catching it with the very tips of your fingers? That's good for maybe one touchdown a season, if that. You do not see Dwight Clark making The Catch very often, which is really the main scenario we're talking about as far as being tall goes.

Yeah, there are a ton of close plays in the end zone, but being tall doesn't have that much to do with it. Most of the balls that a 6'4" receiver would catch, a decent 5'11" receiver would also catch, because all those times that the throw just barely makes it in, it's usually about things like timing, selling a route or a formation, breaking at just the right moment, a perfectly thrown ball, good hands, barely getting both feet down in bounds, or the defender jumping a split-second too late ... in other words, scoring a TD because you're just a good receiver or the QB made a good throw. Being tall is way down the list.

Bottom line, I'd rather have a guy who's 5'10" with good hands and knows how to get open, than a guy who's 6'4" and otherwise just a normal WR.

[Steelerette]

I really don't follow all this talk about how not having a tall WR hurts you so much in the red zone. How often does it come down to out-jumping a guy by 3 inches in the end zone and catching it with the very tips of your fingers? That's good for maybe one touchdown a season, if that. You do not see Dwight Clark making The Catch very often, which is really the main scenario we're talking about as far as being tall goes.

Yeah, there are a ton of close plays in the end zone, but being tall doesn't have that much to do with it. Most of the balls that a 6'4" receiver would catch, a decent 5'11" receiver would also catch, because all those times that the throw just barely makes it in, it's usually about things like timing, selling a route or a formation, breaking at just the right moment, a perfectly thrown ball, good hands, barely getting both feet down in bounds, or the defender jumping a split-second too late ... in other words, scoring a TD because you're just a good receiver or the QB made a good throw. Being tall is way down the list.

Bottom line, I'd rather have a guy who's 5'10" with good hands and knows how to get open, than a guy who's 6'4" and otherwise just a normal WR.My peripheral vision always thinks that your avatar is Eeyore, but then I look straight at it and it's an anime chick.

I don't really care either about having a "tall" wr. But, I guess I can see the team selecting Mike Evans. I just really hope it doesn't happen with Dennard still on the board.

In a week's time whatever question this thread is asking about the draft, will be answered one way or the other.

[Mojouw]

I think the calls for a tall WR are about having another type of weapon in the position grouping. Right now we have a bunch of outside shooting guards - to borrow a basketball analogy. I think when people say "tall" what they really mean is a type of WR that may trade some speed for raw physicality. So a down low power forward or center.

I don't know. Just being tall doesn't really mean a damn thing. Plenty of tall guys who are "meh' as "red-zone threats".

[Shoes]

I think the calls for a tall WR are about having another type of weapon in the position grouping. Right now we have a bunch of outside shooting guards - to borrow a basketball analogy. I think when people say "tall" what they really mean is a type of WR that may trade some speed for raw physicality. So a down low power forward or center.

I don't know. Just being tall doesn't really mean a damn thing. Plenty of tall guys who are "meh' as "red-zone threats".

I'd be delighted with another A. Brown type player early ( like Beckham JR ) and then Jeff Janis in a later round, between those two a good TE (CJ). You'd get your moneys worth out of these type of players, they can do more for your team than jump for a high ball in the red-zone…..imo.

[Mojouw]

I'd be delighted with another A. Brown type player early ( like Beckham JR ) and then Jeff Janis in a later round, between those two a good TE (CJ). You'd get your moneys worth out of these type of players, they can do more for your team than jump for a high ball in the red-zone…..imo.

I think that is great idea. Not sure where Beckham fits into the WR group, but according to all reports his talent is undeniable. Surprised you don't hear more talk about Janis. He seems to have held his own at some of the post-season games and his #'s are astounding.

All the reports I read on him are contradictory. He gets classed as a hard worker who maximizes his limited athletic talent. How can a guy who runs a sub 4.4 at 6'3" and 219 lbs with a 37.5 inch vertical be athletically limited? The only thing I can figure is that he seems to be knocked for his skittishness in traffic and small not quite reliable hands. So do they mean he is uncoordinated and kinda shy about contact?

The only other thing is that...and I really hate to say this...but his photos look white and his profile reads like a white WR profile, but his combine and other #'s look non-white. So maybe there is a Jason Sehorn, We Wleker thing going on here?

[Psycho Ward 86]

Wow. People are going way overboard on the size of the big, tall receivers and neglecting the skills that would palpably be demanded as well.

Obviously the preference for a big, tall receiver doesnt come with a resume covered in crap such as:

-lazy ball skills
-shit hands
-pop warner route running ability
-midget catch radius
-patty cake physicality

when i say "big, tall receiver," i mean a big tall receiver with the complete opposite of these characteristics. and im sure the other people on here are thinking the same. this is why i dont give a single fuck about guys like kelvin benjamin, brandon coleman, martavis bryant, and give plenty of fucks about guys like mike evans, jordan matthews, and cody latimer

[Mojouw]

Wow. People are going way overboard on the size of the big, tall receivers and neglecting the skills that would palpably be demanded as well.

Obviously the preference for a big, tall receiver doesnt come with a resume covered in crap such as:

-lazy ball skills
-shit hands
-pop warner route running ability
-midget catch radius
-patty cake physicality

when i say "big, tall receiver," i mean a big tall receiver with the complete opposite of these characteristics. and im sure the other people on here are thinking the same. this is why i dont give a single fuck about guys like kelvin benjamin, brandon coleman, martavis bryant, and give plenty of fucks about guys like mike evans, jordan matthews, and cody latimer

So a dominant WR who is a physical mismatch for most opposing DB's is what you are after?

I think that goes with out saying that any team could use one of those.

I think people are simply reacting against the need to draft height for the sake of height. Also is it necessary to devote scarce high round draft resources to a WR group that already has a clear-cut #1 in AB?

I don't know. I'm sure that some combination of AB, Wheaton, Moore, and Mike Evans would scare the crap out of most D coordinators around the league. But is that enough to off-set the "cost" of losing out on one of the top 3 corners?

[Psycho Ward 86]

12 of the top 15 TD reception leaders in the NFL last season were 6'3'' or taller, and 11 of the top 15 were 214lb or heavier.

12 of the top 15 receiving yard leaders in the NFL last season were also 6'3'' or taller, and 12 of the top 15 were 214lb or heavier. Only 2 were under 207lb. (desean jackson and our very own antonio brown)

id say its pretty obvious that size makes a difference. but not if you absolutely suck and have nothing to offer but size. Mike Williams and Charles Rogers are examples of that

(Stats via NFL.com)

[Psycho Ward 86]

So a dominant WR who is a physical mismatch for most opposing DB's is what you are after?

I think that goes with out saying that any team could use one of those.

I think people are simply reacting against the need to draft height for the sake of height. Also is it necessary to devote scarce high round draft resources to a WR group that already has a clear-cut #1 in AB?

I don't know. I'm sure that some combination of AB, Wheaton, Moore, and Mike Evans would scare the crap out of most D coordinators around the league. But is that enough to off-set the "cost" of losing out on one of the top 3 corners?

assuming a high round draft pick consists of rounds 1-3, then yes, at least one needs to be a pass catching weapon imo. when our top 3 receivers are midgets, plus miller who is only a decent red zone weapon, lining up an Adonis-sized receiver alongside them just completes the puzzle. absolutely necessary when your franchise QB could be nearing the end, and finally seems to have a good RB stable, O-line, and potentially top flight receiving corp (that is missing just that one piece).

ive flip flopped a little bit here and there, but if evans/watkins are gone by #15, ill take fuller or dennard everytime. If we dont get a receiver with that 1st pick though, i think we absolutely need to go receiver in round 2, where i think there will be a run on receivers (my target would be jordan matthews).

perhaps people have different perceptions on what a big, tall receiver is as well. for me, its going to 6'3'', 210lb or more. although if a receiver is smaller than that but plays with a massive catch radius then he might as well be a big receiver to me. i feel like jordan matthews plays like he's 6'4'' 220lb

[Mojouw]

assuming a high round draft pick consists of rounds 1-3, then yes, at least one needs to be a pass catching weapon imo. when our top 3 receivers are midgets, plus miller who is only a decent red zone weapon, lining up an Adonis-sized receiver alongside them just completes the puzzle. absolutely necessary when your franchise QB could be nearing the end, and finally seems to have a good RB stable, O-line, and potentially top flight receiving corp (that is missing just that one piece).

ive flip flopped a little bit here and there, but if evans/watkins are gone by #15, ill take fuller or dennard everytime. If we dont get a receiver with that 1st pick though, i think we absolutely need to go receiver in round 2, where i think there will be a run on receivers (my target would be jordan matthews).

perhaps people have different perceptions on what a big, tall receiver is as well. for me, its going to 6'3'', 210lb or more. although if a receiver is smaller than that but plays with a massive catch radius then he might as well be a big receiver to me. i feel like jordan matthews plays like he's 6'4'' 220lb

Ok. I can completely agree with that. I still say that Patterson should have been the pick over Jones last year. Evan or Watkins over one of the top corners, I could live with, but not Benjamin or Robinson.

[Psycho Ward 86]

Ok. I can completely agree with that. I still say that Patterson should have been the pick over Jones last year. Evan or Watkins over one of the top corners, I could live with, but not Benjamin or Robinson.

ditto. and its interesting to see how jarvis jones' career vs. patterson's is going to turn out. i could have sworn there were reports out there that if jarvis jones wasnt available at our pick, that patterson was going to be the pick

[Mojouw]

ditto. and its interesting to see how jarvis jones' career vs. patterson's is going to turn out. i could have sworn there were reports out there that if jarvis jones wasnt available at our pick, that patterson was going to be the pick

Yeah. it kind of seems like all the non-jones rumors were essentially the vikings draft (patterson and rhodes). While there is nothing wrong with Jones, I just don't feel that he will become "special". In contrast, Patterson looks like a man-beast out on the field and if he can keep up with the mental part of the game, then there may be little limit to what he can do. That is if the Vikes ever get a real QB on the roster.

[Steelerette]

I've changed my mind.

If Mike Evans is there when we pick, unless we can get a very sweet trade-down package... take him.

Not because he's tall. I have often thought I'd be okay with someone like Moncrief or Matthews in the second. Or someone like Abbrederis later. And I'm pretty sure I'd still be thrilled with that kind of pick. But because Mike Evans just dominates. He's a bigtime player who's always a threat and he can play downfield or play possession or give you a redzone threat, he can do it all except for be a straight-line blazer, and well don't we have Wheaton and DHB for that?

Yes I have been worried about our needs at CB and DL; and I have been having nightmares of Sweed and Troy Edwards. But Sweed had those questions about his hands coming out of school already. No such concerns about Mike Evans. Troy Edwards was a bit of a panic pick because David Boston got snapped up before their pick (damn, can you imagine), and in doing so they missed out on Kearse (again damn, can you imagine...). We might miss out on Evans but I'm confident we won't overreact and grab Brandon Cooks, not with so many other things we can do.

But if Evans is there, grab him. A cornerback isn't going to start for us this season anyways, that doesn't mean you don't take one, but McGill and Baptiste fit the prototype we should be looking for and will be just as good as the first round CBs after a year of development. Grab McGill or Baptiste. Same with DE, Ealy is tempting but we can get Tuitt, Easley, DaQuan, or DeAndre Coleman later, or maybe Jeff Pagan. All guys who could work out really nice for us and develop this season while Heyward and Beard are the starters. Plus we tend to alternate D and O first rounders, it's our offense year :P

Defense wins championships but so does Ben, we have a special QB, adding a bigtime WR to play across from Brown with Munchak heading the O-line and Bell running the ball, we might get to do something the next few years that we haven't seen the Steelers offense do in decades, that's absolutely terrorize opposing defenses. Not only that but we can see Ben's career ride into the sunset, and probably give his heir a real nice system to get his start in.

Plus here's some interesting numbers breakdowns on draft tendencies http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/Draft-tendencies.html The better teams seem to be the ones that take linemen and wide receivers.

[stillers4me]

Defense wins championships but so does Ben, we have a special QB, adding a bigtime WR to play across from Brown with Munchak heading the O-line and Bell running the ball, we might get to do something the next few years that we haven't seen the Steelers offense do in decades, that's absolutely terrorize opposing defenses. Not only that but we can see Ben's career ride into the sunset, and probably give his heir a real nice system to get his start in.

Plus here's some interesting numbers breakdowns on draft tendencies http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/Draft-tendencies.html The better teams seem to be the ones that take linemen and wide receivers.
I can live with this if the offense is so good that they can score enough points to stay ahead of all the points the defense will give up.



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[HollywoodSteel]

I think you'd be hard pressed to find a fan here who would be crying if Evans is there and we take him. From everything I've read about him he's an almost can't miss difference maker (as far as such a thing really exists in the draft). It seems as if the gap between him and Watkins isn't very big at all (and in the end there might not be a difference, but obviously we won't know that for a few years), and probably a much bigger gap between Evans and any other receiver coming out of the draft (even though this draft is pretty deep in that department).

The truth is, the Steelers will not be put to that decision anyway, so it's all just theoretical at this point. Unless something truly bizarre happens, or unless we move up, Evens won't be there when we pick. I'm guessing at least two corners will be gone as well (the only scenario I see throwing this for a loop is if there is a crazy run on QBs before our pick, but that will take some serious panicking on some teams' part to make that happen). If we have to choose between the third corner and the third receiver off the board, I'd sleep easier if we take the corner. Not that it's exactly an apples to apples comparison, but a 2nd round receiver in this draft will probably be of a higher caliber than a 2nd round corner. However, if we go corner in the 1st, and then some really great looking steal is there for us in the 2nd at some other position, and we pass on a receiver to get him… the discussion might get interesting around here, especially since we traded away our third round pick. Is this draft deep enough at the WR position to wait until the 4th round? I'll let our college football experts (like Dwins) contemplate that one.

[Hindes204]

Evans will be long gone, some experts even have him ahead of Watkins now....

[Psycho Ward 86]

nothing is for certain in any draft. someone, or someone(s) drop for no reason other than a team's preference. Take Rashard Mendenhall and David Decastro for example in recent years. They were supposed to be long gone as well. Just last year or two ago, Sharrif Floyd was mocked in the top 5 or just outside the top 5 in most drafts and he ended up at #23 for the vikings. honestly if evans gets past the bucs, he could easily end up available. if he gets past the bucs AND rams, he's going to be available at #15 barring a team trading up

[Jaucer]

I really don't want any receiver in the first two rounds no matter who is available. There are far more pressing needs on this team. Yes they don't have a lot of proven depth at the WR position but AB is solidified at the #1, Heath will be healthy day 1, and we have several promising 2nd year guys. Couple that with the fact that the Steelers have been very good at finding mid-round gems at WR the last several years. Maybe WR is the best position that the scouting department knows how to evaluate. Quite honestly I would like the Steelers to go back to a draft philosophy they seemed to have back when Noll came on board. Draft athletes with good game tape instead of drafting by need "bpa". Get they guys who can play even if you don't need them just yet. Build great depth, make smart trades because of it, and eventually the positions of need don't exist.

[HollywoodSteel]

nothing is for certain in any draft. someone, or someone(s) drop for no reason other than a team's preference. Take Rashard Mendenhall and David Decastro for example in recent years. They were supposed to be long gone as well. Just last year or two ago, Sharrif Floyd was mocked in the top 5 or just outside the top 5 in most drafts and he ended up at #23 for the vikings. honestly if evans gets past the bucs, he could easily end up available. if he gets past the bucs AND rams, he's going to be available at #15 barring a team trading up

You're absolutely right, and though I will be extremely surprised if Evans is there at 15, nothing that happens in the draft will make me fall out of my chair in shock. I think the big unknown is where the run on QBs happens. If teams start grabbing all the QBs early, then who knows? Even if the Texans take the obvious pick in Clowney at #1, St. Louis at #2 and Cleveland at #4 could set the pace if they decide to go QB. And absolutely nothing the Raiders do at #5 will shock me at this point. In my humble opinion none of those teams should take a QB that early given their needs and all the other talent that will be available there (especially not the Browns because a good QB good will most likely be there with their second first round pick, so if they pass on Watkins or Mack for a QB they are stupid and nut-less). But like you said, we've seen all kinds of unexpected things before. Can't see why this year will be any different in that regard.

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I really don't want any receiver in the first two rounds no matter who is available. There are far more pressing needs on this team. Yes they don't have a lot of proven depth at the WR position but AB is solidified at the #1, Heath will be healthy day 1, and we have several promising 2nd year guys. Couple that with the fact that the Steelers have been very good at finding mid-round gems at WR the last several years. Maybe WR is the best position that the scouting department knows how to evaluate. Quite honestly I would like the Steelers to go back to a draft philosophy they seemed to have back when Noll came on board. Draft athletes with good game tape instead of drafting by need "bpa". Get they guys who can play even if you don't need them just yet. Build great depth, make smart trades because of it, and eventually the positions of need don't exist.

I think I agree with the gist of what you are saying, but aren't you possibly contradicting yourself a little? If Evans is somehow there at #15 and is the BPA (by your standards, meaning the best athlete with the best game tape) should we take him or not? Who would you pass him up to take?