Starkey: James Harrison, come on down!

[stillers4me]

Are the Steelers (http://triblive.com/sports/steelers/) really desperate enough to bring James Harrison back?

We both know the answer to that question.

If this team had any semblance of depth at outside linebacker — that is, an oxygen-exchanging humanoid other than Chris Carter — I'd say it was a bad idea.

If their depth chart didn't have more holes than Augusta National, I'd laugh at the notion.

If their defense wasn't coming off something other than a hugely embarrassing season in which it surrendered 55 points and 610 yards in a single game, I'd say forget about it.

But they are riddled with holes. They have no depth. And their defense stunk. So how could it hurt to sign Harrison to a veteran-minimum deal? The man did some decent work in Cincinnati even though he played only 35 percent of the snaps and fit into the Bengals' 4-3 scheme about as well as Casey Hampton would fit in a tutu...............

Read more @ http://triblive.com/sports/joestarkey/5789542-74/harrison-steelers-bengals#axzz2wnCRm8Xf

[fansince'76]

This is a low-risk proposition for a desperate team, one that is watching the New England Patriots and Denver Broncos lap the AFC in a barrage of offseason moves.

Yes, because everyone knows Super Bowls are won in March. Just ask the Browns. :coffee:

Speaking of which, if the latest Super Bowl was any indication, the ENTIRE AFC has a ways to go...

[stillers4me]

447762592660852736

[Mojouw]

Yes, because everyone knows Super Bowls are won in March. Just ask the Browns. :coffee:

Speaking of which, if the latest Super Bowl was any indication, the ENTIRE AFC has a ways to go...

Ever notice that when the Steelers are doing well and other teams try and sign FAs to compete the Steelers writers laugh at them for "wasting money on high priced players in decline" or guys that are "a poor fit" but when the Steelers are down, then the sky is falling and the Earth is going to stop rotating on its axis if those cheap Rooneys and know-nothing front office don't sing a series of high profile free agents to patch some holes?

Ridiculous. These guys are all morons. The real story, as many have pointed out here, is the lack of contributing players from certain draft classes. Injuries and busts have really taken a toll. Couple that with how they misread the cap increases in the early years of the new CBA and there is your story. But all these guys are simply too lazy to do anything but mash their keyboards until "....dddddeeeeeer.....sign free agents.....make team more gooder.....colbert stupid......dddddeeeeer......steeler way......." vomits out the other end.

[Dwinsgames]

as I said in my article linked in draft forum , I sign Harrison and ( a few others ) look to get a year from him to help reduce team needs so these holes can be filled in 2 drafts instead of 1

[GBMelBlount]

as I said in my article linked in draft forum , I sign Harrison and ( a few others ) look to get a year from him to help reduce team needs so these holes can be filled in 2 drafts instead of 1

Absolutely.

[MrPgh]

I think it's safe to say now after the draft that Harrison isn't coming back.

[86WARD]

Agree

[Mojouw]

I would say that barring an injury or that the youth looks totally lost, both Harrison and Kiesel are gone forever.

[HollywoodSteel]

That was my initial reaction as well, but are we sure about this? We drafted a couple more inside guys. So why not pick up Harrison and have Jones, Worilds, Harrison and Moats (who can play inside and out) at OLB? I'd swap out Chris Carter for Harrison in a heartbeat.

[Mojouw]

That was my initial reaction as well, but are we sure about this? We drafted a couple more inside guys. So why not pick up Harrison and have Jones, Worilds, Harrison and Moats (who can play inside and out) at OLB? I'd swap out Chris Carter for Harrison in a heartbeat.

That isn't a bad idea at all. Here is my only real objection to it. Carter is 25 and Harrison is 36.

My imagined objection is that I am not certain that Harrison would do well in a "mentor" role. Unless that mentoring involved him attempting to break all the young players.

That being said, sure bring him to camp. But I doubt that a team that seems fanatically committed to a youth movement goes that way. At this point, I be it is more likely that the UDFA OLB they signed is given a shot to push Carter off the roster than Harrison.

[HollywoodSteel]

That isn't a bad idea at all. Here is my only real objection to it. Carter is 25 and Harrison is 36.

My imagined objection is that I am not certain that Harrison would do well in a "mentor" role. Unless that mentoring involved him attempting to break all the young players.

That being said, sure bring him to camp. But I doubt that a team that seems fanatically committed to a youth movement goes that way. At this point, I be it is more likely that the UDFA OLB they signed is given a shot to push Carter off the roster than Harrison.

Harrison at 36 is better that Carter at 25, and better than Carter will ever be. Carter has had plenty of chances to show what he can do, and he is average. If we were forced to play him at OLB that scares me a lot more than having to play Harrison. I very much doubt Carter is part of our long term youth movement. But sure, bring them both in to camp and let them compete for the spot. Who will you put your money on?

I think Harrison would be fine in a mentor role, even if it's just leading by example. He can also really help Jones with technique (especially how to get leverage on a O-lineman). Hell, I'd bring Harrison back just to inspire the other guys in the weight room.

[MrPgh]

Harrison at 36 is better that Carter at 25, and better than Carter will ever be. Carter has had plenty of chances to show what he can do, and he is average. If we were forced to play him at OLB that scares me a lot more than having to play Harrison. I very much doubt Carter is part of our long term youth movement. But sure, bring them both in to camp and let them compete for the spot. Who will you put your money on?

I think Harrison would be fine in a mentor role, even if it's just leading by example. He can also really help Jones with technique (especially how to get leverage on a O-lineman). Hell, I'd bring Harrison back just to inspire the other guys in the weight room.

Given everything we know about Harrison's character, why should we expect him to embrace a mentor role on this team? He's a broken-down 36-year old. It's time to move on for good.

[ALLD]

Maybe pay Harrison as assistant coach to strike fear into the players who are not motivated. Kind of a Yang to LeBueu's Ying.

[Mojouw]

Maybe pay Harrison as assistant coach to strike fear into the players who are not motivated. Kind of a Yang to LeBueu's Ying.

I think that job is already taken by one Joey Porter.

http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--bTxaCGZB--/18f19dprcsgtzjpg.jpg

[HollywoodSteel]

Given everything we know about Harrison's character, why should we expect him to embrace a mentor role on this team? He's a broken-down 36-year old. It's time to move on for good.

What do we know about his character that is a negative? He might not be a "raw raw" Hines Ward type, but that doesn't mean he isn't a mentor. His teammates have always said that he's a great leader who leads by example on the field, in practice, and in the weight room. If someone else lifts 400 pounds you can bet your ass JH will lift 450. But all that aside, if he's broken down let's see it in pre-season. If Chris Carter can beat him out for the spot then I'm fine moving on. But barring injury, I'll put my money on JH. I might feel different if Carter had a high ceiling and was someone that we were trying to develop, but we've already seen what he can do. If I were Flacco, Red, or Johnny Football I'd much rather see Chris Carter line up against me on game day than James Harrison, even at 36.

[Steeldude]

Given everything we know about Harrison's character, why should we expect him to embrace a mentor role on this team? He's a broken-down 36-year old. It's time to move on for good.

So you would rather have an inferior player?

[MrPgh]

So you would rather have an inferior player?

Have you checked your calendar? It's not 2008 anymore.


What do we know about his character that is a negative? He might not be a "raw raw" Hines Ward type, but that doesn't mean he isn't a mentor. His teammates have always said that he's a great leader who leads by example on the field, in practice, and in the weight room. If someone else lifts 400 pounds you can bet your ass JH will lift 450. But all that aside, if he's broken down let's see it in pre-season. If Chris Carter can beat him out for the spot then I'm fine moving on. But barring injury, I'll put my money on JH. I might feel different if Carter had a high ceiling and was someone that we were trying to develop, but we've already seen what he can do. If I were Flacco, Red, or Johnny Football I'd much rather see Chris Carter line up against me on game day than James Harrison, even at 36

Violence against his own wife.

And how much Harrison lifts doesn't matter. The guy is 36 and washed up. Let it go. No other team wants him. That should tell us something.

[Mojouw]

What has Harrison done in the past 2 seasons to indicate that he is even a fraction of the player he once was? I am sure he can still set the edge against the run, but I am equally certain he is likely a total liability in coverage, and has little left in the tank as a pass rusher.

Carter is 10 years younger and possess a lightning quick 1st step. He has only been on the roster for 3 years and one of those was basically w/out an off-season program due to the CBA stuff. He may be on the Worilds self improvement plan. If so, this is the year he takes the leap.

I am by no means saying that I have seen anything to be excited about in Carter. But I am saying he is on the beginning and based on past 3-4 project OLB's, potentially the upswing of his career.

THere is no scenario where Harrison is not on the downswing of his career. I loved rooting for him and was very sad to see him go and think that last season he could have helped out. 2014, not as much.

[Jaucer]

What has Harrison done in the past 2 seasons to indicate that he is even a fraction of the player he once was? I am sure he can still set the edge against the run, but I am equally certain he is likely a total liability in coverage, and has little left in the tank as a pass rusher.

Carter is 10 years younger and possess a lightning quick 1st step. He has only been on the roster for 3 years and one of those was basically w/out an off-season program due to the CBA stuff. He may be on the Worilds self improvement plan. If so, this is the year he takes the leap.

I am by no means saying that I have seen anything to be excited about in Carter. But I am saying he is on the beginning and based on past 3-4 project OLB's, potentially the upswing of his career.

THere is no scenario where Harrison is not on the downswing of his career. I loved rooting for him and was very sad to see him go and think that last season he could have helped out. 2014, not as much.

This. And people seem to forget that it took Harrison several years before he developed into anything worthwhile. So much so that he was cut from several times. It basically took him 5 years to become anything special. I'm not a big Carter fan but I'll give the team the benefit of knowing that they must see enough promise in him during practices to keep him around. Hopefully the light finally comes on this year.

[86WARD]

Harrison wasn't terrible as a two down player by any means...he's just not a full time guy anymore and he's not contributing on special teams anymore...

[Steeldude]

Have you checked your calendar? It's not 2008 anymore.

That's nice, but you didn't answer the question. You would rather have an inferior player?

There is nothing wrong with picking up veterans who have lost a step. Remember Flozell Adams? Duvall Love? Von Oelhoffen?

[HollywoodSteel]

What has Harrison done in the past 2 seasons to indicate that he is even a fraction of the player he once was? I am sure he can still set the edge against the run, but I am equally certain he is likely a total liability in coverage, and has little left in the tank as a pass rusher.

Carter is 10 years younger and possess a lightning quick 1st step. He has only been on the roster for 3 years and one of those was basically w/out an off-season program due to the CBA stuff. He may be on the Worilds self improvement plan. If so, this is the year he takes the leap.

I am by no means saying that I have seen anything to be excited about in Carter. But I am saying he is on the beginning and based on past 3-4 project OLB's, potentially the upswing of his career.

THere is no scenario where Harrison is not on the downswing of his career. I loved rooting for him and was very sad to see him go and think that last season he could have helped out. 2014, not as much.

You could very well be right and I'm probably letting my emotions bias me. But I'd like to bring him into camp and see. If Carter can't legitimately beat out a 36 year old Harrison then I'd totally risk cutting Carter even if he has some kind of "potential" that is yet unfulfilled.

There's no question that Harrison is on the downswing of his career. The only question is who makes this team better today? If it's Carter, I can live with that. I'd just like to see him prove it in pre-season. And it doesn't worry me too much that other teams aren't snatching James up. I think he is more valuable to the Steelers than he is to any other team given the way we use him and his familiarity with our system. Do you think Carter would get snatched up any quicker?

Your point about special teams is valid, but I'm not too worry about it given the fact that we just picked up two linebackers who will contribute on ST. I doubt if Carter will even get a hat on most Sundays, barring an injury.

[Count Steeler]

Has he been washed down with some Cincinnati stank remover?

[MrPgh]

That's nice, but you didn't answer the question. You would rather have an inferior player?

There is nothing wrong with picking up veterans who have lost a step. Remember Flozell Adams? Duvall Love? Von Oelhoffen?

You obviously didn't get what I'm saying. There's no reason to believe Harrison is a superior player to Carter or whoever anymore. Harrison is a broken-down 36-year old that currently can't find work anywhere in the NFL. It's time to move on.

[HollywoodSteel]

You obviously didn't get what I'm saying. There's no reason to believe Harrison is a superior player to Carter or whoever anymore. Harrison is a broken-down 36-year old that currently can't find work anywhere in the NFL. It's time to move on.

Of course there's a reason to believe Harrison is a better player than Carter. Mainly because Carter has never proven otherwise. What's the harm in bringing them both into camp and finding out? If by broken down you mean that Harrison is still way stronger than Carter ever was and ever will be, and gets better leverage on O-linemen than Carter ever has, and is a fiercer competitor than Carter ever will be, and inspires his teammates to bring their own game up a notch every time he steps onto the field in a way that Carter could never do, then I'll take a chance on the broken down 36 year old in training camp and let him compete for the job. It's not even a real financial risk.

[Steeldude]

You obviously didn't get what I'm saying. There's no reason to believe Harrison is a superior player to Carter or whoever anymore. Harrison is a broken-down 36-year old that currently can't find work anywhere in the NFL. It's time to move on.

How could you possibly view Carter as being better? It's time to get rid of the dead weight like Carter and move on.

He was in a 4-3 and played little in Cincinnati. The Steelers defense hasn't been the same with Harrison gone. During Harrison's final year the defense was lackluster until he came back off the injured list. He steadily improved as the season went on. Of course Harrison's better days are behind him, but what is wrong with having a veteran backup for insurance? Who is backing up Jones if he is injured or completely sucks? Carter has been a complete void in games. Carter hasn't even offered a glimpse of ability. As I stated before, Flozell Adams was a so-called broken down veteran, but look how he out-shined the younger players to solidify the right side.

The OLBs are a huge question mark going into the season. Actually, the entire LB corps is a question mark.

Do you dislike competition in training camp?

[Steelerette]

I think what you have to consider is that we're probably pretty set, for several seasons if they get Worilds extended, at OLB. I like Jarvis's chances but even if he doesn't live up to what he could, you know this team is going to force the issue for a season or two. And then you have to ask,

1) If Worilds winds up leaving via FA, is Carter good enough to replace him and be our fulltime starter?

The answer is no.


2) ILB is crowded now, so assuredly Moats is a backup OLB. Moats has showed a good bit of upside and is only, 26. He's only a year older than Carter. So, is Carter probably as good as Moats?

The answer is no.


3) Sure Harrison is not going to be great in pass coverage, I agree. But Carter is at best our 4th OLB anyways. So we're not going to be using Harrison in our base defense anyways, unless we have not one but two injuries. And when we're defending the run, blitzing, or stacking the box, is Carter going to be nearly as much of a presence as Harrison?

The answer is no.


4) Are we even sure that Howard Jones, an UDFA with tons of upside, isn't going to challenge Carter his roster spot?

The answer is no.


It would be foolish not to at least bring Harrison into camp.

[86WARD]

You obviously didn't get what I'm saying. There's no reason to believe Harrison is a superior player to Carter or whoever anymore. Harrison is a broken-down 36-year old that currently can't find work anywhere in the NFL. It's time to move on.

Actually Harrison played decent on first and second downs. For a two down OLB, the Steelers could do much worse...I also believe that I read somewhere that he graded out pretty well according to PFF...take it for what it's worth...

[Mojouw]

Looks like Ike is banging the drum for not only Harrison, but Holmes as well.

http://www.behindthesteelcurtain.com/latest-news/2014/5/20/5734892/steelers-free-agency-james-harrison-santonio-holmes

I've kinda come around to the whole bring Harrison to camp and let him compete kinda thing. Here is my one last hang-up? What does he have to do to make the roster and what kind of role would they be looking for? He can not be the primary back-up at OLB because of his total lack in coverage ability at this point. So that means you kind of have to carve out a specialty role for him as a back-up edge run defender/pass rusher if he shows he still has those clubs in the bag so to speak. That has a cascading effect on the roster make-up.

That either pushes another OLB or DL off the roster. The DL is already inexperienced and full of guys that are essentially "lets throw something at the wall and hope it sticks" kind of players behind the top 3 of Heyward, Mclendon, and Tuitt. So I would rather not see the Steelers go light at that position grouping.

At LB'er there is the same story. Lot of talent at ILB that it would be less than ideal to cut. At OLB, the popular opinion is to cut Carter and let Harrison server as the primary OLB back-up. That carries with it the potential for disaster or at least the repeat of the Vince Wiliams situation from last season. Say Jones gets hurt and Harrison has to come in for several games. Jones can play in space, Harrison likely not as much. Teams then attack that weakness. So he splits the snaps there based on situational football you say - problem solved. Who does he split them with? Moats? No one really knows where he fits. Zummalt? He can't cover either. Timmons? Don't really want to move around your playcaller, particularly when he will likely be riding shotgun with a rookie in Shazier. Garvin? That is underwhelming. That brings us all the way back around to Carter. Carter has, in theory, the athleticism to make plays in space and behind the line. So back to having to cut from another position group to keep a specialty tool - who we will have no way of knowing if he can still contribute as a situational pass-rusher/run stuffer against front line tackles.

Now, as for Mr. Holmes...that actually intrigues me more. Giving him a vet minimum one year flier to round out the WR corps could work. Brown, Wheaton, Moore, and Bryant are who the Steelers likely want to be part of the top 4, but that leaves 2 more spots. Say Archer gets one. Assuming (that is big if) Holmes is healthy and willing to accept a bit part (another huge assumption) who looks better as that primary back-up WR? Holmes or DHB? Say what you want about Holmes, but he can catch - DHB...not so much. Additionally, Holmes can play all three WR slots - DHB only on the outside. It is a situation that requires a ton of "ifs" to work out and you better stash someone you trust on your PS in case Holmes' foot disintegrates again. But IF he was able to play 2014 as even 75% of what he was prior to leaving, he would be better than most that have come back for a second tour.

[Steelerette]

I'd rather have DHB than Holmes. Holmes is the better talent but... history shows, nobody will work harder for the team than DHB... plus on special teams. If teams learn to kick it away from Archer but that means they have to kick it *to* DHB... they're still screwed.

[Mojouw]

I'd rather have DHB than Holmes. Holmes is the better talent but... history shows, nobody will work harder for the team than DHB... plus on special teams. If teams learn to kick it away from Archer but that means they have to kick it *to* DHB... they're still screwed.

Fair enough. I can't disagree totally. I would point out that Holmes was on his way to being AB for this team before AB. Remember he only got traded, at least in my opinion, when there were too many PR hits in one off-season. Holmes got deemed more expendable than the franchise QB and the primary pass-rusher. Holmes' piss poor attitude really only manifested itself in a way that mattered when the situation in NY turned to complete non-sense.

[st33lersguy]

I'd say yes to Harrison only because OLB depth is thin. As for Holmes, no way! Forget about him being a pot smoking druggie, what has he done the past few years to deserve a spot on an NFL roster? Besides we need less locker room cancers on this team

[MrPgh]

Of course there's a reason to believe Harrison is a better player than Carter. Mainly because Carter has never proven otherwise. What's the harm in bringing them both into camp and finding out? If by broken down you mean that Harrison is still way stronger than Carter ever was and ever will be, and gets better leverage on O-linemen than Carter ever has, and is a fiercer competitor than Carter ever will be, and inspires his teammates to bring their own game up a notch every time he steps onto the field in a way that Carter could never do, then I'll take a chance on the broken down 36 year old in training camp and let him compete for the job. It's not even a real financial risk.

First of all, you're living in 2008. Second, where are you getting this idea that Harrison "inspires his teammates to bring their own game up?" This isn't Jack Lambert in his prime we're talking about. You're badly overrating the guy. If he's so great, why isn't he on an NFL team now?


How could you possibly view Carter as being better? It's time to get rid of the dead weight like Carter and move on.

Except signing Harrison isn't moving on, it's trying to go back in time.


He was in a 4-3 and played little in Cincinnati. The Steelers defense hasn't been the same with Harrison gone. During Harrison's final year the defense was lackluster until he came back off the injured list. He steadily improved as the season went on. Of course Harrison's better days are behind him, but what is wrong with having a veteran backup for insurance? Who is backing up Jones if he is injured or completely sucks? Carter has been a complete void in games. Carter hasn't even offered a glimpse of ability. As I stated before, Flozell Adams was a so-called broken down veteran, but look how he out-shined the younger players to solidify the right side.

The OLBs are a huge question mark going into the season. Actually, the entire LB corps is a question mark.

Much of what you're saying seems to be based off nostalgia. Harrison isn't the player he was anymore, and as I mentioned earlier he's currently unemployed. There's a reason for that. I'm not Chris Carter's cheerleader nor do I care much about him, but James Harrison is done. If Jarvis Jones stinks then the Steelers have a big problem, but that's not because Harrison isn't on the roster, that's because of piss-poor drafting.


Do you dislike competition in training camp?

Seems like there will be enough of it without Harrison? Do you dislike moving on from the 2008 defense?

[Mojouw]

I'd say yes to Harrison only because OLB depth is thin. As for Holmes, no way! Forget about him being a pot smoking druggie, what has he done the past few years to deserve a spot on an NFL roster? Besides we need less locker room cancers on this team

If NFL teams didn't employ pot smokers, there wouldn't be games on Sundays.

That aside, Holmes was really only a "cancer" when the Jets turned into a 3 ring circus. From what I remember all he really did was say that the QB's all stunk and that he was refusing to play hurt for a franchise with no direction or plan for improvement? Don't know if I can really fault the guy for that.

I'm not trying to be a Holmes cheerleader here, but bottom line is talent wins games in the NFL. IF Holmes is healthy he has more proven talent than Moye, Coale, DHB, J Brown, and whatever other after-thoughts are going to come to camp this year. He certainly has more talent than Burress at this point. He can run all the routes (assuming he is healthy) has tremendous hands and we know he has no fear of going over the middle and getting hit while catching a pass.

Plus at this point he would likely have to come cheap, whether he likes it or not.

What has Harrison done the last few seasons to deserve a spot on an NFL roster?

[Steelerette]

The upside to Holmes, and I might only want it if we carry 6 WRs, is that he'll probably be very grateful for the second chance, do things right, and he may well still have 5 more productive seasons left in him, and could probably do the best job out of anyone besides Moore... who doesn't have Steelers experience... in mentoring the young guys... especially in regards to "what not to do".

[st33lersguy]

What has Harrison done the last few seasons to deserve a spot on an NFL roster?

I could say the same thing about Smokey Holmes? Yeah he broke his foot but it was not like he was doing anything on the field the last few years when he was playing. The difference is the OLB position is in much more need of depth, and Harrison will at least be able to be an effective mentor. There really isn't that big a need for another wide receiver on the team.

[Mojouw]

I could say the same thing about Smokey Holmes? Yeah he broke his foot but it was not like he was doing anything on the field the last few years when he was playing. The difference is the OLB position is in much more need of depth, and Harrison will at least be able to be an effective mentor. There really isn't that big a need for another wide receiver on the team.

Since he has left the Steelers, Holmes has played 2 basically full seasons and 2 injury marred ones. In all 4 he has averaged double digit yards/reception (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/H/HolmSa00.htm).

In contrast Harrison played in almost every game last year and did zip (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/H/HarrJa23.htm).

Not saying that Holmes is even all that good anymore, but he is certainly better than DHB and the bunch of low upside unproven guys floating around the #5-#6 WR place on the depth chart. To say we do not have a need at WR is a bit of an overly optimistic read on the situation. AB is AB and well proven. Lance Moore is a veteran who should rebound working out of the slot. The entire rest of the depth chart is a giant question mark. I am a huge cheerleader for both Wheaton and Bryant and honestly believe they have huge upsides/potential, but the next big time catch either of these guys makes will be the first.

Again, as others have asked, what in the world makes it seem like Harrison would be a good mentor? He has rarely demonstrated any vocal leadership nor when he was here was he mentioned as a team leader other than by example? If he can't get on the field, how can he set an example? I will always be a gigantic James Harrison fan, but I honestly think for many reasons he does not fit on the current construction of the 53 man roster. Sadly, I don't feel that Kiesel will either.

But I think that a case can be made for Holmes or, honestly, any low cost proven veteran receiver with some upside. Like DHB for instance. Honestly it seems like you are stuck on the fact that he smokes weed. Like I said, so does the vast majority of the NFL. Holmes was just stupid enough to get caught. Why do you think the NFL is starting to bend and weaken its dope policy? Because a ton of players are doing it and the NFL wants to move to 18+ games. So they figure, we'll make it easy for you to smoke, you play more games.

[st33lersguy]

But I think that a case can be made for Holmes or, honestly, any low cost proven veteran receiver with some upside. Like DHB for instance. Honestly it seems like you are stuck on the fact that he smokes weed. Like I said, so does the vast majority of the NFL. Holmes was just stupid enough to get caught. Why do you think the NFL is starting to bend and weaken its dope policy? Because a ton of players are doing it and the NFL wants to move to 18+ games. So they figure, we'll make it easy for you to smoke, you play more games.

It is not just that he is a pothead with a healthy rap sheet it is the fact that he has been largely non-existent the past few years. You are talking about a player who has not topped 750 yards receiving since he was traded, a guy who had only 1 1,000 yard season in his entire career (including Pittsburgh), who is already declining, and has now turned 30 meaning physically he will be on the decline. You want to bring a head-case who may or may not be healthy, who is on the downswing of his career, who in his prime churned out merely a decent level of production, at a position where camp bodies aren't needed only because he had 1 great postseason, and showed a lot of promise 5-6 years ago?

[Steelerette]

In the immortal words of Bob Dylan, "Everybody must get stoned."

[steelerdude15]

I'm sorry, but the ship has sailed for both players. I highly doubt the Steelers would want to sign Holmes back after his drug issues and on top of that, said he would never change because "he was a Super Bowl MVP." No thank you. Then on top of that, James is older now. I think he would be a good mentor, but he wouldn't be the physical force he used to be.

[Steelerette]

While I think it's unlikely that we bring either player back, you can't really get hung up on them being past their prime either... realize that if they are even considered, it's basically to be third stringers who will play situationally or in emergencies...

[Mojouw]

It is not just that he is a pothead with a healthy rap sheet it is the fact that he has been largely non-existent the past few years. You are talking about a player who has not topped 750 yards receiving since he was traded, a guy who had only 1 1,000 yard season in his entire career (including Pittsburgh), who is already declining, and has now turned 30 meaning physically he will be on the decline. You want to bring a head-case who may or may not be healthy, who is on the downswing of his career, who in his prime churned out merely a decent level of production, at a position where camp bodies aren't needed only because he had 1 great postseason, and showed a lot of promise 5-6 years ago?

No. I want to bring him in in recognition of what he could be right now. He could be a veteran who has demonstrated when he is healthy and pulls his head out of his ass he can get open consistently and hang on to the damn ball. Something no one on the current WR depth chart besides AB and Lance Moore has demonstrated. Ever. Holmes has far less of a rap sheet than say, Plaxico Burress, who the Steelers welcomed back when they felt their WR depth was too thin.

I agree with many others that this is far from likely to happen, my only point is that it is not as laughable of something to contemplate as it might appear on the surface.

For what it is worth, Lance Moore is 31. James Harrison is what, 36? Can't have it both ways.

[salamander]

I'll pass on both Holmes and Harrison.

[st33lersguy]

They should definitely try to sign an OLB with NFL starting experience because they need more camp bodies at the position. I would prefer someone younger whose not as far past his prime, but if that guy turns out to be Harrison, then he at least can serve as a mentor and a guy who knows the system

[TomlinSteelTribe]

With the current roster, with the current draft picks, you bring em both to camp at the right price, with the right attitude. I think Stonio, if healthy, could beat out Lance Moore and the rookie for the slot position, maybe even take the #2, and James Harrison as a pass rush back-up could help out both Worilds and Jones--you don't have a 36-yr-old Harrison with heavy coverage duties at this point. Let em both compete in camp. After consecutive 8-8 seasons what's there really to lose? I don't think the current roster is that far-off from SB contender, but it's not there at the moment. One of the two (likely Holmes) could make a significant difference. Sure, there's risk, especially on the team chemistry front, but... I'm leaning toward it's worth the risk.

As long as they're not locker room cancers. Santonio being more the worry there, but like others have said, this kind of last chance situation might resonate and change things for him. Holmes, if only at 90%, is better than Heyward-Bey any day. Forget about that kinda talk.

[Mojouw]

http://www.behindthesteelcurtain.com/2014/5/21/5739160/holmes-should-come-back-to-pittsburgh

"As previously alluded to, the Steelers wide receiver corps is looking very green heading into camp. Outside of Brown and Moore, the Steelers have very little experience or playing time to speak of. Holmes has been to the mountain top and back, he's seen and done it all. Besides, when he played for the Steelers Roethlisberger and Holmes clicked. There's no other word for it, they just clicked. That chemistry is still there, lying dormant and ready to be ignited. Having him could be what the offense needs to replace Cotchery and Sanders, an experienced player capable of a big play who also has Roethlisberger's trust. Above and beyond that, having him in camp pushing the younger guys is only going to be a positive."

I'm not the only one who sees Holmes as a potential solution to the inexperience at WR. LIke I and others have said, this is fairly unlikley to happen, but too intriguing to dismiss out of hand. A motivated Santonio on a one year contract to rehab his value? Might get some good production out of that situation.

[zulater]

The fact that they brought back Plaxico last hyear tells you that resigning Holmes is possible. But that Plax's signing went so poorly tells you that maybe they'll look at Holmes's recent injury history, age, and poor locker room temperament and say no thanks. What's done is done and shouldn't be revisited.

I could see where it could work, but if they like how Ben and Moore click in mini-camp and are convinced that Wheaton is ready to be a big time contributor then I think they pass on Santonio. My guess, they pass.

[86WARD]

@NFL_ATL: Ike Taylor says Santonio Holmes and James Harrison want to return to Steelers http://t.co/DbZcAejQsC

[zulater]

@NFL_ATL: Ike Taylor says Santonio Holmes and James Harrison want to return to Steelers http://t.co/DbZcAejQsC

Yeah nice they say that. But the fact is there's no interest around the league in them. Therefore they're trying to spark fan support in their favor with the hope that will somehow draw the notice of the Steelers. Got a sneaky hunch that if either are offered a nickel more elsewhere that's where they'll end up.

[st33lersguy]

The upside to bringing in Holmes isn't worth bringing in what is a known locker room cancer. Holmes is washed up and unproductive. Hasn't had 750 receiving yards since being traded. If they wanted to bring in another wide receiver, you're telling me there isn't a free agent wide receiver out there that has been more productive and is less of a locker room cancer than Holmes?

[ALLD]

The best one could hope for is a good 4th WR in bringing back Holmes. Harrison would make the Steelers a target all over again. Unless they showed something spectacular in a quick tryout I would let them keep sailing and take my lumps with who we have now. Worst case scenario we get a top 10 draft pick next year.

[vader29]

@NFL_ATL: Ike Taylor says Santonio Holmes and James Harrison want to return to Steelers http://t.co/DbZcAejQsC
The video that played on that page, Hot Rod picked the Steelers to go 11-5 but questioned if that was good enough to get them into the postseason. :lol:

[Mojouw]

The upside to bringing in Holmes isn't worth bringing in what is a known locker room cancer. Holmes is washed up and unproductive. Hasn't had 750 receiving yards since being traded. If they wanted to bring in another wide receiver, you're telling me there isn't a free agent wide receiver out there that has been more productive and is less of a locker room cancer than Holmes?

So here is the most extensive list I could find in about 3 minutes of searching http://www.kffl.com/static/nfl/features/freeagents/fa.php?option=WR&y=2014

Not exactly an impressive name of productive NFL players.

Here is another one http://sports.yahoo.com/news/2014-nfl-free-agents-015900284--nfl.html

A bit outdated, because a few of those guys are signed (Austin for sure and I think Meachum). The only other recognizable "name" on the list besides Holmes is Alexander. He currently has about 1/4 of the working knee ligaments that a human being should. Likely not a good signing.

My argument is that the WR corps is thin on experience. There is an experienced player sitting on the market. His stock is so low that the Browns (who may be starting beer vendors at WR soon) apparently didn't even consider it. The situation seems to scream low risk (read very little money) with potential for a potential high reward (really good 4th WR). Why not bring him to camp once the Woodley money clears, especially if he wants to sign? What is the worst case scenario? They cut Holmes after the 2nd pre-season game? Hell, even if he becomes a "locker room cancer" by the 3rd week of the season, cut his ass then.

Again, I ask, if Holmes is too old and physically broken down to sign; what is the argument in Harrison or Kiesel's favor then? I would love to sing the 2008-2011 version of James Harrison and put Jones on the bench (where I think he belongs) but that dude likely doesn't exist anymore. But for the right price, sure bring him in, but only if they are willing to sit Jones. I don't think they are.

[HollywoodSteel]

First of all, you're living in 2008. Second, where are you getting this idea that Harrison "inspires his teammates to bring their own game up?" This isn't Jack Lambert in his prime we're talking about. You're badly overrating the guy. If he's so great, why isn't he on an NFL team now?



Except signing Harrison isn't moving on, it's trying to go back in time.



Much of what you're saying seems to be based off nostalgia. Harrison isn't the player he was anymore, and as I mentioned earlier he's currently unemployed. There's a reason for that. I'm not Chris Carter's cheerleader nor do I care much about him, but James Harrison is done. If Jarvis Jones stinks then the Steelers have a big problem, but that's not because Harrison isn't on the roster, that's because of piss-poor drafting.



Seems like there will be enough of it without Harrison? Do you dislike moving on from the 2008 defense?

Harrison is either better than Carter at this point or his isn't, but the fact that Harrison isn't as good as he was in 2008 isn't any kind of a persuasive argument. It's entirely irrelevant. So, if Ike isn't the the player he was in 2008 then by definition he can't be good enough to make this team either? What about Troy? Nope, not as good as he was in 2008. I don't want to be accused of living in the past so we'd better cut him. Since no one is claiming that Harrison is as good as he was in his prime, I'm not sure what argument you are refuting. That's not to say that there aren't persuasive arguments to be made that signing him would be a mistake. This just isn't one of them.

As far as his coverage abilities, I honestly don't know what they are anymore. That's what the pre-season is for. If we are expecting either him or Carter to cover a TE, or anyone else, one on one all the way down the field then we'll probably get burned on that play. If we're expecting him to cover on shallow routes only, and then pass off the receiver to someone else should the route go deeper, then I've never seen definitive proof that Carter can handle that task any better than James. But again, I'm fine with having them both on the team going into the pre-season and letting their play on the field do the talking. I won't cry myself to sleep if Carter wins the job.

And I'm not making the stuff up about JH inspiring his teammates. I learned that from statements by his teammates. I specifically remember them mentioning it two years ago when he came back from injury and several of his fellow defenders talked about his presence giving everyone a boost, and they even called him their emotional leader out there. Since the whole unit vastly improved once he returned, I'm going to go ahead and assume that they weren't lying about that.

[st33lersguy]

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/10958721/james-harrison-santonio-holmes-want-return-pittsburgh-steelers-ike-taylor-says

Feeling apparently not mutual for neither Harrison nor Holmes

[Steeldude]

First of all, you're living in 2008. Second, where are you getting this idea that Harrison "inspires his teammates to bring their own game up?" This isn't Jack Lambert in his prime we're talking about. You're badly overrating the guy. If he's so great, why isn't he on an NFL team now?

No one picked up Flozell Adams, but the Steelers did and it worked out well. Same goes with Starks. How many free agents are picked up at this time of year? Aren't most teams evaluating their newly drafted talent? I am not sure why you are stuck on the 2008 kick. No has said or claimed that Harrison is the player he was in 2008. He doesn't exactly have to be if he is a backup. You are relying on Carter or Moats to fill in. Carter has shown nothing. Jarvis Jones is still a question mark. If he fails then who takes his place? Moats? Carter? A rookie? I suppose I would choose Moats, but he doesn't exactly know the system. I am sure he can learn it, but how well and how soon?



Except signing Harrison isn't moving on, it's trying to go back in time.


No one is going back in time. Teams pickup veteran free agents all of the time. Are you afraid Harrison will do well if given a chance to compete? What harm comes in letting him try out for a spot?


Much of what you're saying seems to be based off nostalgia. Harrison isn't the player he was anymore, and as I mentioned earlier he's currently unemployed. There's a reason for that. I'm not Chris Carter's cheerleader nor do I care much about him, but James Harrison is done. If Jarvis Jones stinks then the Steelers have a big problem, but that's not because Harrison isn't on the roster, that's because of piss-poor drafting.

Nothing is based on nostalgia. Again, as I have stated multiple times, Harrison's better days are behind him, but that doesn't mean he can't contribute in a positive manner.

Exactly, it will be because of a bad draft pick. So doesn't it make sense to have a short-term patch in case Jarvis Jones fails. Also, Worilds tends to get dinged up throughout the season.


Seems like there will be enough of it without Harrison? Do you dislike moving on from the 2008 defense?

Their isn't much competition at OLB. Carter, Moats and some rookies will be fighting it out. Why not try out a veteran who knows the system and brings an attitude the defense has been missing? The 2012 version of Harrison is better than Carter and I am certain the 2014 is better also. If you look at the entire LBing corps they only have one sure thing and that is Timmons.

Again, this has nothing to do with the 2008 season. If you want to move on from that season then why not ditch Polamalu and Taylor? They aren't their 2008 versions, right?

[HollywoodSteel]

The fact that they brought back Plaxico last hyear tells you that resigning Holmes is possible. But that Plax's signing went so poorly tells you that maybe they'll look at Holmes's recent injury history, age, and poor locker room temperament and say no thanks. What's done is done and shouldn't be revisited.

I could see where it could work, but if they like how Ben and Moore click in mini-camp and are convinced that Wheaton is ready to be a big time contributor then I think they pass on Santonio. My guess, they pass.

Zu, I think there might be a difference between the Holmes situation and the Plax situation as far as the Steelers are concerned. Plax was let go the first time around primarily because of a money issue. If we could have kept both him and Ward at a reasonable price we would have. As Chidi pointed out in another thread, Holmes was tossed because of a character issue. He smoked weed for a second time, which the Steelers considered a slap in the face. So we traded him for basically nothing. How could we bring him back now given that he can't undo that character thing? Maybe if he had turned into an absolute saint or something, but he hasn't done a whole lot to redeem himself. He didn't have the greatest attitude in NY, so to bring him back now is basically saying that getting rid of him the first time was unwarranted.

[HollywoodSteel]

Since he has left the Steelers, Holmes has played 2 basically full seasons and 2 injury marred ones. In all 4 he has averaged double digit yards/reception (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/H/HolmSa00.htm).

In contrast Harrison played in almost every game last year and did zip (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/H/HarrJa23.htm).



Again, as others have asked, what in the world makes it seem like Harrison would be a good mentor? He has rarely demonstrated any vocal leadership nor when he was here was he mentioned as a team leader other than by example? If he can't get on the field, how can he set an example? I will always be a gigantic James Harrison fan, but I honestly think for many reasons he does not fit on the current construction of the 53 man roster. Sadly, I don't feel that Kiesel will either.


I think you're make valid points about Harrison, but in his defense, I'm willing to not judge him too harshly based solely on what he did with the Bengals. I don't think he ever totally fit in with their exact system or even with the team on a chemistry level (I'm speculating a bit on the chemistry thing based mostly on what I saw on Hard Knocks. Plus he has black & gold in the blood. He was never really a Bengal). I don't think Harrison would be as valuable to any other team in the NFL as he'd be to us given his familiarity with everything Steelers.

As far as only being a leader on the field, I can understand that thinking but remember you can lead by example in practice and in the weight room as well.

Again, I'm not trying to cheer too loudly, saying that he absolutely should make the 53 man roster or anything. I just don't see the harm in bringing him into camp and letting the chips fall where they may. I believe that a little bit of his attitude and his approach to practice and lifting weights could have a positive effect on the other LBs in pre-season alone. There is no downside as far as I can see.