UPDATE: Worilds signs transition tag

[stillers4me]

Story to follow:

440593090852556800

- - - Updated - - -

440593904274923521

[LLT]

YES!!! that makes the draft a little more clear.

[Dwinsgames]

question is now , can they work out a long term contract , and will he sign the tag or try and force a sign /trade over being " offended he was tagged " .... I doubt he plays that card seems like a smart enough guy but we have seen it in the past with other players ..

hopefully they can work something out that is fair to both sides in a timely manner so we are not forced into paying nearly 10 mill for him for 1 year

[stillers4me]

The Steelers have announced that the team designated linebacker Jason Worilds (http://www.steelersuniverse.com/team/roster/jason-worilds/5c613eee-74dc-496d-85ff-b2dfb90b0b14/) as the team’s transition player.

Worilds (6-2, 262) was originally drafted by the Steelers in the second round (52nd overall) of the 2010 NFL Draft out of Virginia Tech. In his career, Worilds has started 21-of-57 regular season games played and registered 121 tackles (90 solo), 18 sacks and three forced fumbles. Last season he set career highs in starts (11), tackles (54), sacks (8) and forced fumbles



By designating Worilds, an unrestricted free agent, as the team’s transition player, Pittsburgh has the right of first refusal to match any offer sheet he may receive from another team.

http://www.steelers.com/news/article-1/Steelers-Designate-Jason-Worilds-As-Teams-Transition-Player/95ddca4e-1e18-4f21-bf70-f2d24b605d90

[Dwinsgames]

also lets hope no team make an offer loaded with a poison pill making it all but impossible for us to match

[stillers4me]

440597160548380672

[vader29]

As Charlie Batch predicted 2 months ago.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ppKoGrG78ek

[LLT]

440597160548380672

Worilds has said that he wants to remain in Pittsburgh, so I hope a contract is reached soon. Gotta think that Clark, Woodley and Taylor might be cap casualties. I still look for us to resign Hood, and Cotchery.

[Dwinsgames]

thinking on it just a bit , this may have been a bad move ...

there is not a huge difference in TT and FT in terms of $$ ... if you want to assure he stays why not spend just 2 mill more and be certain he does .... all this really does is give teams a chance to poach him and if they do we get nothing in return under the Tran Tag ... at least with a Fran Tag we if someone even thinks about taking a shot at him ( and they wouldn't because of inherent costs ) we would get 2 first round picks for him ( nobody would go that far out on the limb )

- - - Updated - - -


Worilds has said that he wants to remain in Pittsburgh, so I hope a contract is reached soon. Gotta think that Clark, Woodley and Taylor might be cap casualties. I still look for us to resign Hood, and Cotchery.

just Woodley and Ike ... Clarks contract expired the 11th at 4pm

[Mojouw]

thinking on it just a bit , this may have been a bad move ...

there is not a huge difference in TT and FT in terms of $$ ... if you want to assure he stays why not spend just 2 mill more and be certain he does .... all this really does is give teams a chance to poach him and if they do we get nothing in return under the Tran Tag ... at least with a Fran Tag we if someone even thinks about taking a shot at him ( and they wouldn't because of inherent costs ) we would get 2 first round picks for him ( nobody would go that far out on the limb )

- - - Updated - - -



just Woodley and Ike ... Clarks contract expired the 11th at 4pm

I'm guessing that $10 million per is their limit. The transition tag appears to imply this. Now there is no way for the agent to ask for over that amount. Franchise tag would make it hard to negotiate a yearly dollar amount less than that, as the player could just play under the tag.

I don't know, knee-jerk reaction on my part. I figure this will end up sucking as for the sake of a couple of million dollars, Worilds goes elsewhere with no compensation.

[st33lersguy]

thinking on it just a bit , this may have been a bad move ...

there is not a huge difference in TT and FT in terms of $$ ... if you want to assure he stays why not spend just 2 mill more and be certain he does .... all this really does is give teams a chance to poach him and if they do we get nothing in return under the Tran Tag ... at least with a Fran Tag we if someone even thinks about taking a shot at him ( and they wouldn't because of inherent costs ) we would get 2 first round picks for him ( nobody would go that far out on the limb )

- - - Updated - - -



just Woodley and Ike ... Clarks contract expired the 11th at 4pm

Yeah, what did they really accomplish here other than scare some teams off

[Dwinsgames]

Yeah, what did they really accomplish here other than scare some teams off

word on the street is Orakpo is getting tagged ( the fran version ) making Worilds the top rush OLB available ... someone WILL make a move on him ...

this was a stupid move all to save 2 million bucks .....

mark my words Worilds has played his last down of football for the Steelers

- - - Updated - - -

Andrew Brandt ‏@adbrandt (https://twitter.com/adbrandt) 39m (https://twitter.com/adbrandt/status/440594519524794368) Unlike Browns, Steelers do not have Cap space to easily match first-year Cap heavy offer sheet. Worilds situation one to watch.

[st33lersguy]

word on the street is Orakpo is getting tagged ( the fran version ) making Worilds the top rush OLB available ... someone WILL make a move on him ...

this was a stupid move all to save 2 million bucks .....

mark my words Worilds has played his last down of football for the Steelers

- - - Updated - - -

Andrew Brandt ‏@adbrandt (https://twitter.com/adbrandt) 39m (https://twitter.com/adbrandt/status/440594519524794368) Unlike Browns, Steelers do not have Cap space to easily match first-year Cap heavy offer sheet. Worilds situation one to watch.

Had they franchised tagged him, they still could have gone back under by cutting Ike and Levi

[LLT]

thinking on it just a bit , this may have been a bad move ...

there is not a huge difference in TT and FT in terms of $$ ... if you want to assure he stays why not spend just 2 mill more and be certain he does .... all this really does is give teams a chance to poach him and if they do we get nothing in return under the Tran Tag ... at least with a Fran Tag we if someone even thinks about taking a shot at him ( and they wouldn't because of inherent costs ) we would get 2 first round picks for him ( nobody would go that far out on the limb )

- - - Updated - - -



just Woodley and Ike ... Clarks contract expired the 11th at 4pm

Thats just semantics....We are moving on without him due to: a. Going younger (money=cap) b. Declining play.

- - - Updated - - -


word on the street is Orakpo is getting tagged ( the fran version ) making Worilds the top rush OLB available ... someone WILL make a move on him ...

this was a stupid move all to save 2 million bucks .....

mark my words Worilds has played his last down of football for the Steelers

- - - Updated - - -

Andrew Brandt ‏@adbrandt (https://twitter.com/adbrandt) 39m (https://twitter.com/adbrandt/status/440594519524794368) Unlike Browns, Steelers do not have Cap space to easily match first-year Cap heavy offer sheet. Worilds situation one to watch.

I think this is a temp move...Worilds will get his contract and we free up the money in other ways.

[Dwinsgames]

I think this is a temp move...Worilds will get his contract and we free up the money in other ways.


if it is not soon ( before the 11th ) I doubt it happens his price will be to high ( he is the top dog on the market at that point )

[LLT]

if it is not soon ( before the 11th ) I doubt it happens his price will be to high ( he is the top dog on the market at that point )

But if the Steelers were planning on signing him to begin with (which I have said in the past, I thought to be the case)..Then its a no harm no foul move..generated simply to "scare some teams off"....as has been said....and to buy us time to make cap room to negotiate that contract with more leverage on the side of the FO.

If I were to believe everything that I am hearing coming out of the Steelers camp...Worilds wants to stay and the Steelers want to keep him...Just a matter of coming to terms.

[stillers4me]

440608823137804288

[LLT]

440608823137804288

Exactly what I was saying.

[steelreserve]

The tranny tag? Why on earth would they use that?

As someone said in another thread (I think dwins), it's useless since we get nothing in return if another team signs him. Just opens a bidding war where we might find ourselves disqualified by rule if someone gets there first and throws in a poison pill.

The only thing I can think of is that we're far enough apart on a real extension that we're desperate enough to use this to maybe buy a couple extra days.

[LLT]

The tranny tag? Why on earth would they use that?

As someone said in another thread (I think dwins), it's useless since we get nothing in return if another team signs him. Just opens a bidding war where we might find ourselves disqualified by rule if someone gets there first and throws in a poison pill.

The only thing I can think of is that we're far enough apart on a real extension that we're desperate enough to use this to maybe buy a couple extra days.

Instead of writing everything again...look at past posts. Its simply a temporary move.

[Psycho Ward 86]

i dont understand this poison pill people are talking about. How can other teams put a poison pill on their offer sheet when they dont even own worilds?

- - - Updated - - -


I'm guessing that $10 million per is their limit. The transition tag appears to imply this. Now there is no way for the agent to ask for over that amount. Franchise tag would make it hard to negotiate a yearly dollar amount less than that, as the player could just play under the tag.

I don't know, knee-jerk reaction on my part. I figure this will end up sucking as for the sake of a couple of million dollars, Worilds goes elsewhere with no compensation.

few players seem to express joy in playing under any sort of tag. long term financial security is much more important, so if we offer him anything pretty decent for 4-5 years, he'll take it imo

[st33lersguy]

Worilds is a guy they really cannot afford to lose in free agency. They end up losing another young promising player after losing Keenan Lewis, it opens up a pressing need at OLB, it forces us to stick with lethargic Lamar Woodley, and it prevents the team from building any team chemistry. These old guys are going to be leaving soon anyway, you need to keep as many productive younger players as you can to shorten the rebuilding phase.

Frankly this seems like nothing more than a lame attempt to convince fans that they tried to keep him

[stillers4me]

440618947172655104

[dislocatedday]

My gut instinct tells me that the Steelers are close to working out a long-term deal with Jason at this point. If the two sides were far apart in negotiations I don't think the Steelers would have applied this tag.

I expect Jason will be signed before free agency starts, and there will be additional cuts before then to make the room (Levi Brown and Ike Taylor appear to be the prime candidates.............Woodley will likely then be a June 1st cap cut to get some savings over the summer to sign draft picks).

[Dwinsgames]

http://www.steelcityblitz.com/2014/03/03/transition-tag-on-jason-worilds-will-have-ramificiations/?utm_term=%23steelers+%23steelernation+%23NFL&utm_content=%23steelers+%23steelernation+%23NFL&utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

[LLT]

i dont understand this poison pill people are talking about. How can other teams put a poison pill on their offer sheet when they dont even own worilds?


in the simpliest terms possible...The transition tag states that another team can offer a contract and the steelers would have 7 days to match it. Sooooo...teams can throw a "poison pill" into the contract such as a guarentee that the player would be the highest paid player on the team at his position...or that the player would be guarenteed to play 80% of all plays.

Virtually anything that a team thinks the other team CAN'T match.

[LLT]

My gut instinct tells me that the Steelers are close to working out a long-term deal with Jason at this point. If the two sides were far apart in negotiations I don't think the Steelers would have applied this tag.

I expect Jason will be signed before free agency starts, and there will be additional cuts before then to make the room (Levi Brown and Ike Taylor appear to be the prime candidates.............Woodley will likely then be a June 1st cap cut to get some savings over the summer to sign draft picks).

Exactly...and its no coincidence that Heath's contract was restructured at the same time.

[Steeltreal]

Noooo.. dont cut the All time Sack leader.
Move Jones inside, keep both

[LLT]

Noooo.. dont cut the All time Sack leader.
Move Jones inside, keep both

We would...if not for that pesky salary cap.

[Dwinsgames]

-already speculation that the Eagles could be in the market for Worilds

[jb500ex]

Paying worilds anywhere near that kind of money will come back and bite the steelers very hard

[LLT]

Paying worilds anywhere near that kind of money will come back and bite the steelers very hard


...not if their intention is to sign him to a long term contract.

- - - Updated - - -


Paying worilds anywhere near that kind of money will come back and bite the steelers very hard

Could be. They run a 3-4 scheme and have money to spare. But without a contract, that would have been the case with or without the transition tag.

[Dwinsgames]

Could be. They run a 3-4 scheme and have money to spare. But without a contract, that would have been the case with or without the transition tag.

kind of my point initially , 2 more million secures you in being able to negotiate a long term deal without distraction or intervention of other teams ( nobody is going to pony up 2 first round picks for him )

if he does not come to terms long term prior to the draft you can then find his eventual replacement , if he does cool .... but we would have uninterrupted negotiation process where now we have only set a pricetag teams have to surpass but have nothing but that price tag as an obstacle

[Mojouw]

Here are some contract comps for the discussion that is sure to ensue about what Worilds, Woodley, Jones, etc are "worth".

http://overthecap.com/top-player-salaries.php?Position=34OLB

It seems that around the NFL someone who can put the QB on his ass from the edge is worth around 6-12 million per year.

Here is last year's sack totals -- http://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2013/defense.htm

[steelreserve]

Paying worilds anywhere near that kind of money will come back and bite the steelers very hard

I remember the same exact things being said about Woodley for the same exact amount of money. There is a ton of deja vu here. Unfortunately, there is no way in hell of knowing in advance whether he is worth what the market is willing to pay him, or whether it is Woodley II.

I don't care how hot a commodity Worilds is right now, or what other teams are willing to offer - we need to step back and look at the situation as a neutral observer. If Worilds had the same exact career up to this point except that he played for, say, the Chiefs - would anyone here be saying "We need to pull out all the stops to go and sign that guy away from them" or "I think $10 million a year for that guy is a solid move for us?" Hell no. It's a straight-up gamble, nothing less. For that reason alone, I don't think it's a good idea.

I think people's thought on this are hugely distorted by the fact that we happened to be the team that drafted this guy 4 years ago, and there's this sense of pride about "losing one of OUR guys." Back off of that for a moment, and think of what else we could do to help the team for that amount of money. Play a $50 million hand of blackjack? How is that smart?

[LLT]

kind of my point initially , 2 more million secures you in being able to negotiate a long term deal without distraction or intervention of other teams ( nobody is going to pony up 2 first round picks for him )

if he does not come to terms long term prior to the draft you can then find his eventual replacement , if he does cool .... but we would have uninterrupted negotiation process where now we have only set a pricetag teams have to surpass but have nothing but that price tag as an obstacle

But it serves two purposes. 1) it gives us time to work out a contract. 2) It makes other teams "pony up" if they really want him.

Any miniscule contract is going to be matched by the Steelers, so if the Eagles want him...NOW they are going to have to show up wearing their big boy pants,

[stillers4me]

Browns, Steelers don’t have to worry about poison pills

In 2006, retired guard Steve Hutchinson became the last high-profile player to change teams under the transition tag. Slapped with the device that gives the current team only a right to match an offer sheet signed by another team, Hutchinson ultimately left the Seahawks for the Vikings.

The move occurred thanks to a so-called “poison pill,” which would have made Hutchinson’s seven-year, $49 million contract fully guaranteed if at any time during the life of the contract he wasn’t the highest paid offensive lineman on the team. At the time the offer sheet was signed, the Seahawks were paying more to left tackle Walter Jones..........

read more @ http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/03/03/browns-steelers-dont-have-to-worry-about-poison-pills/

[Mojouw]

I remember the same exact things being said about Woodley for the same exact amount of money. There is a ton of deja vu here. Unfortunately, there is no way in hell of knowing in advance whether he is worth what the market is willing to pay him, or whether it is Woodley II.

I don't care how hot a commodity Worilds is right now, or what other teams are willing to offer - we need to step back and look at the situation as a neutral observer. If Worilds had the same exact career up to this point except that he played for, say, the Chiefs - would anyone here be saying "We need to pull out all the stops to go and sign that guy away from them" or "I think $10 million a year for that guy is a solid move for us?" Hell no. It's a straight-up gamble, nothing less. For that reason alone, I don't think it's a good idea.

I think people's thought on this are hugely distorted by the fact that we happened to be the team that drafted this guy 4 years ago, and there's this sense of pride about "losing one of OUR guys." Back off of that for a moment, and think of what else we could do to help the team for that amount of money. Play a $50 million hand of blackjack? How is that smart?

So what would you be willing to pay a player with 8 sacks across 11 starts last year? What about a player with 5 sacks in 11 games? Those are the #'s for Worilds and Woodley. What about a player with 11 sacks in 15 games? (Hali's #'s -- the highest for a OLB I could find from last season).

Worilds and Woodley are both (strictly looking at sack totals -- I realize being a successful 3-4 OLB is more than that, but that is what gets these guys paid)just a tick off that top tier of production from OLB's last season. Heck Clay Matthews got $13.5 million or so to be hurt for half a season last year. The market rate is set. I would rather roll the dice on overpaying the devil I know than the having to hand the same dollars to the devil I don't.

Connor Barwin and Paul Kruger are what happens when you have to go another tier down for 3-4 edge rushers. No thank you.

[Dwinsgames]

But it serves two purposes. 1) it gives us time to work out a contract. 2) It makes other teams "pony up" if they really want him.

Any miniscule contract is going to be matched by the Steelers, so if the Eagles want him...NOW they are going to have to show up wearing their big boy pants,


I respectfully disagree , it puts us at a pos of mercy over 2 million dollars ....

I get it poison pill like the Vikes used vs Seattle can no longer be done per league rules ...

However to think it can not still happen ( as PFT suggests on twitter and I just enlightened them it can ) ....

here is the deal ... we have right of first refusal nothing more nothing less ... at this point our offer is just 1 year ...

lets use the Raiders and their nearly 80 million in cap space as an example ....

Raiders say ok we will put this offer on the table 20 million first year 5 year deal 36 million and a 7 million signing bonus on top of it .... we can not touch that deal even if offering 8 million a year over same time frame because the first year of the raider deal would be fully guaranteed as soon as the ink dried it would cost the raiders a bunch in year 1 but he would be cheaper to them long term than he would be to us

[LLT]

I respectfully disagree , it puts us at a pos of mercy over 2 million dollars ....

I get it poison pill like the Vikes used vs Seattle can no longer be done per league rules ...

However to think it can not still happen ( as PFT suggests on twitter and I just enlightened them it can ) ....

here is the deal ... we have right of first refusal nothing more nothing less ... at this point our offer is just 1 year ...

lets use the Raiders and their nearly 80 million in cap space as an example ....

Raiders say ok we will put this offer on the table 20 million first year 5 year deal 36 million and a 7 million signing bonus on top of it .... we can not touch that deal even if offering 8 million a year over same time frame because the first year of the raider deal would be fully guaranteed as soon as the ink dried it would cost the raiders a bunch in year 1 but he would be cheaper to them long term than he would be to us

It puts us at the mercy of a team that is willing to overpay for Worilds? Okay. Let them. That is why some teams are perinnial losers. The transition tag puts us in a position to compete at Worilds ACTUAL value...and gives us time to restructure and offer a competitive contract to someone who has stated that he wants to stay.

Besides...Worilds can count as well as we can and for competitive money "over the life of the contract"...I would hazard to say he would pick a winner over a loser.

[Dwinsgames]

It puts us at the mercy of a team that is willing to overpay for Worilds? Okay. Let them. That is why some teams are perinnial losers. The transition tag puts us in a position to compete at Worilds ACTUAL value...and gives us time to restructure and offer a competitive contract to someone who has stated that he wants to stay.

Besides...Worilds can count as well as we can and for competitive money "over the life of the contract"...I would hazard to say he would pick a winner over a loser.


yea very true on the surface , but long term would be cheaper than what 8 mil a year over 5 years would be in the above situation because they have such a huge amount of cap space and in a way a smart kind of deal because they get a bunch of the cap hit out of the way now and keep a player under contract on the cheap down the road ...

just saying a front loaded deal kills our chances and could very well happen when 2 mill more pretty much kills that chance of happening

[LLT]

yea very true on the surface , but long term would be cheaper than what 8 mil a year over 5 years would be in the above situation because they have such a huge amount of cap space and in a way a smart kind of deal because they get a bunch of the cap hit out of the way now and keep a player under contract on the cheap down the road ...

just saying a front loaded deal kills our chances and could very well happen when 2 mill more pretty much kills that chance of happening

But we can only work within the confines of our own cap situation...and the tag gives us the best chance to show Worilds we want him and are willing to work out a contract with him.

What other teams do is out of our control. We have to work with what tools we have. Simply put.

[Psycho Ward 86]

I respectfully disagree , it puts us at a pos of mercy over 2 million dollars ....

I get it poison pill like the Vikes used vs Seattle can no longer be done per league rules ...

However to think it can not still happen ( as PFT suggests on twitter and I just enlightened them it can ) ....

here is the deal ... we have right of first refusal nothing more nothing less ... at this point our offer is just 1 year ...

lets use the Raiders and their nearly 80 million in cap space as an example ....

Raiders say ok we will put this offer on the table 20 million first year 5 year deal 36 million and a 7 million signing bonus on top of it .... we can not touch that deal even if offering 8 million a year over same time frame because the first year of the raider deal would be fully guaranteed as soon as the ink dried it would cost the raiders a bunch in year 1 but he would be cheaper to them long term than he would be to us

thats not even a vaguely realistic deal, but point made. omg, i forgot all about the raiders as a potential suitor. i think i read somewhere that some 4-3 teams might be looking at worilds as a DE. fml...

[Shoes]

He's not going to leave his Daddy Mike T.

[dislocatedday]

The other factor that comes into play with the transition tag is that other teams are not allowed to begin negotiating or pursuing Worilds (or any other tagged player) until March 22......11 days after free agency begins. Teams that have a lot of cap room tend to start offering the big contracts in that first wave of free agency. This gives the Steelers more time to get a deal done with Jason without other teams breathing down his neck.

[GBMelBlount]

The other factor that comes into play with the transition tag is that other teams are not allowed to begin negotiating or pursuing Worilds (or any other tagged player) until March 22......11 days after free agency begins. Teams that have a lot of cap room tend to start offering the big contracts in that first wave of free agency. This gives the Steelers more time to get a deal done with Jason without other teams breathing down his neck.

Great point!

This will be interesting.

Some team with cash and need will offer Jason a great contract....but has he played lights out long enough to be worth us giving him the reasonably big contract either befor or after free agency starts?

Ugh.

[st33lersguy]

Great point!

This will be interesting.

Some team with cash and need will offer Jason a great contract....but has he played lights out long enough to be worth us giving him the reasonably big contract either befor or after free agency starts?

Ugh.

I think this is where a franchise tag comes in handy, it could have served as a one year prove it deal.

[vader29]

What Worilds Deal Means

By Ed Bouchette
Pittsburgh Post-Gazette

The Steelers traded one gamble for another when they gave linebacker Jason Worilds their transition tag. They went from gambling they would lose him, to gambling they can afford him.

But it also opens up a way for them to release LaMarr Woodley if they so choose. We will get to that below.

With a one-year salary of $9,754,000 on the books for Worilds, the Steelers salary cap for their top 51 player contracts is now estimated to be $144 million and change (thanks to Sportrac.com and OverTheCap.com for many of these figures). Each team’s salary cap has been set at $133 million but teams also can carry over unused cap from last season and for the Steelers that was $1.4 million.

So, they are roughly $10 million over the salary cap on their top 51 contracts, which is all that counts in the offseason. Including all of their players under contract, plus the transition number on Worilds, for 2014, they are about $14 million over the cap for the entire roster. But they only have to be in compliance in the offseason with the top 51. They have until the start of the 2014 regular season to get all of their players under the cap.

So, right now, they must find another $10 million to lop off their salary cap and that won’t be hard.

As we noted, they are working on a restructuring of Heath Miller’s contract, which can only mean they are trying to sign him to an extension. Ian Rapoport of the NFL Network reported yesterday that the deal was done; our sources as of Monday evening say not quite.

There is no way Miller’s agent, Tom Condon, is going to take a one-year reduction in his client’s $6 million base salary without an extension. So they have to be working on an extension that would allow them to reduce his 2014 salary cap hit by reducing his salary and giving him a signing bonus. Bonuses are pro-rated over the life of the contract. Say Miller would take a $1 million salary this year and the Steelers would give him a $9 million bonus spread over, say, three years. That bonus would count $3 million per year, so it would reduce his cap by $2 million this year ($3 million pro-rated bonus plus $1 million salary equals $4 million, replacing his $6 million salary now on the books). That’s not much, but it’s a start.

By Worilds getting the big number, it does not bode well for Ike Taylor one way or another. Taylor is scheduled to make $7 million in this the final year of his contract. He’s not going to get that. They could release him, of course, and save $7 million. But no matter how you think he played last season, they have no depth at cornerback. They could ask him to take $2-$3 million and shave their cap by another $4-5 million. Let’s say Taylor takes the $3 million salary and Miller gets the contract extension I suggested above (merely pulled out of a hat, by the way, with no knowledge of their negotiations with Condon).

Those two things would create $6 million in cap space. Cut tackle Levi Brown and his $6.25 million due this season and that’s $12.25 million. Bang, they are under the cap for next Tuesday before they even get to some of the more difficult decisions.


Read more: http://sportsblogs.post-gazette.com/sports/steelers-steelers-blog/2014/03/04/What-Worilds-Deal-Means.html

[steelreserve]

I think this is where a franchise tag comes in handy, it could have served as a one year prove it deal.


Ding ding ding. THAT would've been the answer. The big problem with the situation is that we don't know whether the last half-season was a flash in the pan, which makes a big contract into a huge gamble. The extra year would've done a lot to prove or disprove that.

Granted, it's still possible for players to prove themselves with a long stretch of success, and then have a big contract blow up in your face anyway (see: Woodley, Lamarr). But the extra year would go a long way toward alleviating my doubts, especially when offering "market value" would essentially mean paying the same as the franchise-tag price for five or six consecutive years. OK - what do you gain by that? That's what we did with Woodley, and it was stupid.



So what would you be willing to pay a player with 8 sacks across 11 starts last year? What about a player with 5 sacks in 11 games? Those are the #'s for Worilds and Woodley. What about a player with 11 sacks in 15 games? (Hali's #'s -- the highest for a OLB I could find from last season).

Worilds and Woodley are both (strictly looking at sack totals -- I realize being a successful 3-4 OLB is more than that, but that is what gets these guys paid)just a tick off that top tier of production from OLB's last season. Heck Clay Matthews got $13.5 million or so to be hurt for half a season last year. The market rate is set. I would rather roll the dice on overpaying the devil I know than the having to hand the same dollars to the devil I don't.

Connor Barwin and Paul Kruger are what happens when you have to go another tier down for 3-4 edge rushers. No thank you.


I would not pay $10M a year for either player. I think the position itself is hugely overpriced if you go into the free agent market for pass rushing OLBs.

I didn't mean take the $10M a year and go get a second-tier free agent OLB; I meant take the $24 MILLION we'd save from cutting Taylor and Woodley and letting Worilds walk, and use it to pick up a serviceable DB, ILB and DL. We could actually do things like make a run at a guy like Michael Bennett or a top CB other than Revis. That would go a lot further toward fixing the defense than blowing a ton of cash on an edge rusher who we don't even know is any good.

Then just draft another pass rusher or sign one for cheap; he'll do a lot better now that the rest of the defense is actually a force to contend with.

The hell of it is, unless we spent $8M a year on each of those players, we'd even still have money left over to go look for a second receiver. Life would be good. Or at least a lot better than the alternative. Although it appears we're going down the opposite path, which ... OK, I guess we're taking the long way back to contention.

[Psycho Ward 86]

I respectfully disagree , it puts us at a pos of mercy over 2 million dollars ....



this is debatable because really, every team that wants worilds now has their balls in a vice as well because they wont be able to even talk to worilds until a week and a half has passed in free agency. The rest of the top pass rushers in FA will be long gone by then and all of those teams that were trying to get worilds (i believe the rumors circulating are 6-8 teams?) will be fucked because only one of them will actually have worilds if they offer him ridiculous money. The rest will be entering the draft with most likely another need (pass rusher) having to be filled. And the one team that decides to go through all of that trouble to get worilds will probably end up signing him to some insane $11-$12 million contract. hardly a victory for the winning bidder. and a hell of a lot of trouble to go through just for a guy that MIGHT be a good pass rusher. Worilds says he wants to stay, and he says he wants to start. unlikely that we would have gone through this trouble as well unless we are intending to let go of woodley. hell we probably only kept him as insurance just in case we were unable to retain worilds.

id say other teams are much more likely to cry uncle than we are. Even if it is us vs. 6-8 teams. Looks like a bold, but calculated decision to me

[Dwinsgames]

word is Worilds accepted the tag , I take that as signing it ? have not sen anything " official yet "

[Mojouw]

Ding ding ding. THAT would've been the answer. The big problem with the situation is that we don't know whether the last half-season was a flash in the pan, which makes a big contract into a huge gamble. The extra year would've done a lot to prove or disprove that.

Granted, it's still possible for players to prove themselves with a long stretch of success, and then have a big contract blow up in your face anyway (see: Woodley, Lamarr). But the extra year would go a long way toward alleviating my doubts, especially when offering "market value" would essentially mean paying the same as the franchise-tag price for five or six consecutive years. OK - what do you gain by that? That's what we did with Woodley, and it was stupid.





I would not pay $10M a year for either player. I think the position itself is hugely overpriced if you go into the free agent market for pass rushing OLBs.

I didn't mean take the $10M a year and go get a second-tier free agent OLB; I meant take the $24 MILLION we'd save from cutting Taylor and Woodley and letting Worilds walk, and use it to pick up a serviceable DB, ILB and DL. We could actually do things like make a run at a guy like Michael Bennett or a top CB other than Revis. That would go a lot further toward fixing the defense than blowing a ton of cash on an edge rusher who we don't even know is any good.

Then just draft another pass rusher or sign one for cheap; he'll do a lot better now that the rest of the defense is actually a force to contend with.

The hell of it is, unless we spent $8M a year on each of those players, we'd even still have money left over to go look for a second receiver. Life would be good. Or at least a lot better than the alternative. Although it appears we're going down the opposite path, which ... OK, I guess we're taking the long way back to contention.

What pass rushers can be signed that come cheap? Not any with much production. We have seen this defense when there is no pressure off the edges. It looks like an 0 and 4 defense that gets chewed up and spit out in the passing game.

As for draft picks, well we picked the highest rated OLB in the last draft and got almost no production out of that pick. While Jones may develop into a player, it is not likely that a draft pick would help much this year on the other side. So the proposal is to build a 3-4 pressure defense with no players who can generate pressure off the edge?

I don't like paying guys $10 million + per year either, but that is the market rate. This league places high contract/cap value on 3 things: LT's, QB's, and pass rushers. I would be careful in wishing that your team goes the cheap route for any of those three.

Also for what it is worth, the original contract for Woodley was not the problem. It was the restructures. If the contract was never touched, he would be on the team for next year without much hand-wringing. Still would be a huge question mark due to injury concerns, but not a insurmountable cap problem.

- - - Updated - - -


word is Worilds accepted the tag , I take that as signing it ? have not sen anything " official yet "

http://www.rotoworld.com/headlines/nfl/284086/jason-worilds-signs-$9754m-transition-tag

Signed.

[Dwinsgames]

ok signed means he is officially ours for at least 2014 , we dogged the proverbial bullet and Worlids proves THIS is where he wants to be

[dislocatedday]

ok signed means he is officially ours for at least 2014 , we dogged the proverbial bullet and Worlids proves THIS is where he wants to be

Goodbye Lamaar Woodley.

I don't hold any grudges against the guy and wish him luck going forward, but he just has not been able to stay healthy and be productive anywhere near commensurate with his salary. Perhaps the Eagles will now sign Woodley since they will not be getting Worilds.

[katmandu]

ok signed means he is officially ours for at least 2014 , we dogged the proverbial bullet and Worlids proves THIS is where he wants to be

Update (From NPC.com) : Ed B of the PPG and Jason LaCanfora have both reported on Twitter that Worilds has agreed to his transition tender. This moves him out of contention for another team and removes him off the free agency list. The Steelers could still work out a long term deal with Worilds during the offseason.

Now, could you just imagine Drafting C.J. Mosely on the Inside along with Timmons and our OLBs ? Oh man!

[steelreserve]

What pass rushers can be signed that come cheap? Not any with much production. We have seen this defense when there is no pressure off the edges. It looks like an 0 and 4 defense that gets chewed up and spit out in the passing game.

As for draft picks, well we picked the highest rated OLB in the last draft and got almost no production out of that pick. While Jones may develop into a player, it is not likely that a draft pick would help much this year on the other side. So the proposal is to build a 3-4 pressure defense with no players who can generate pressure off the edge?

I don't like paying guys $10 million + per year either, but that is the market rate. This league places high contract/cap value on 3 things: LT's, QB's, and pass rushers. I would be careful in wishing that your team goes the cheap route for any of those three.

The mistake you're making is thinking that the success of the rest of the defense depends on the pass rushers, rather than the other way around. When this defense works the way it's supposed to, it creates opportunities for the pass rushers, and you don't need superstars there to be decently successful. Do you think it was just coincidence that we had so many linebackers over the years just plug in and put up good numbers, or that half of them dropped off when they went elsewhere (or when the rest of the defense started slowing down)? Really?

Our problem now is that our defensive line is weak and gets shoved around instead of doing its job, our defensive backfield is old and plays soft, and only one ILB can cover, so we have to misuse the OLBs a lot. The first means there are no mismatches for the pass rushers to take advantage of; the second means they rarely have time to do it anyway; the third means they don't get as many opportunities to try. Re-signing a pass rusher for big bucks is a band-aid; there's a hell of a lot more that would need to be done to actually fix it.

$10M may be the market rate, but we're still stupid if we pay it in the long term. We are not going to catch up to and surpass the rest of the league by following the exact same playbook as them and blowing money in the free agent market for a return of 70 cents on the dollar. Wasn't what we did before when we were winning; started trying it recently and look where it's gotten us.

Yes, I'd advocate drafting and starting a rookie or mid-level free agent at OLB. Just as I'd advocate starting a rookie or mid-level free agent at CB, DL, or ILB. That's the thing about the salary cap. YOU HAVE TO. Pick two of those positions, doesn't matter which, and you have to. The cap gives you room for exactly two guys in the $10M range (we've now got seven, eight if you count Brown as close) and probably 5 or 6 guys total over $6M assuming one has a QB contract and another is a 10M guy. The rest have to be relatively cheap, or it fucks everything up. There is no "oh but market value" or "oh but we don't enough have depth here or there" - it's absolute. If you don't follow it, you pay the price, simple as that. Drafting well (better than we have) and finding the good mid-level free agents are mandatory. You don't do that, you don't win.



Also for what it is worth, the original contract for Woodley was not the problem. It was the restructures. If the contract was never touched, he would be on the team for next year without much hand-wringing. Still would be a huge question mark due to injury concerns, but not a insurmountable cap problem.


Woodley's contract was definitely the problem. The restructures just made it worse. No matter how you cut it, $61 million over 6 years is still over $10 million a year. It would still be a huge problem at that number.


Yes, I'm aware that most of this argument is now just in hindsight since the offer is signed, but it's not like there was no point to it.

[Psycho Ward 86]

Worilds was slapped with the transition tag Monday. No offer sheets can come Worilds' way now. Per CBS Sports' Jason La Canfora, Worilds and the Steelers have made progress toward a long-term deal, and that remains the goal for both parties. Worilds and Brian Orakpo were set to be the most coveted 3-4 edge rushers in free agency. Orakpo was franchise tagged and would cost two first-round picks to sign away from Washington, and Worilds is now locked in with Pittsburgh. OLB LaMarr Woodley is now expected to be cut by the Steelers.

and THAT ladies and gentlemen, is the real good news of the day. not the fact that worilds signed his tag

[steelreserve]

Worilds was slapped with the transition tag Monday. No offer sheets can come Worilds' way now. Per CBS Sports' Jason La Canfora, Worilds and the Steelers have made progress toward a long-term deal, and that remains the goal for both parties. Worilds and Brian Orakpo were set to be the most coveted 3-4 edge rushers in free agency. Orakpo was franchise tagged and would cost two first-round picks to sign away from Washington, and Worilds is now locked in with Pittsburgh. OLB LaMarr Woodley is now expected to be cut by the Steelers.

and THAT ladies and gentlemen, is the real good news of the day. not the fact that worilds signed his tag


Yeah, I need to quit being too negative about this thing and look at the bright side. Holy crap, I never thought we'd get out from under the crushing weight of The Contract. Just let's be careful not to do another one.

[zulater]

I just hope Jason doesn't stop "hustling" next year now he's got the big money. :chuckle:

[Mojouw]

The mistake you're making is thinking that the success of the rest of the defense depends on the pass rushers, rather than the other way around. When this defense works the way it's supposed to, it creates opportunities for the pass rushers, and you don't need superstars there to be decently successful. Do you think it was just coincidence that we had so many linebackers over the years just plug in and put up good numbers, or that half of them dropped off when they went elsewhere (or when the rest of the defense started slowing down)? Really?

Our problem now is that our defensive line is weak and gets shoved around instead of doing its job, our defensive backfield is old and plays soft, and only one ILB can cover, so we have to misuse the OLBs a lot. The first means there are no mismatches for the pass rushers to take advantage of; the second means they rarely have time to do it anyway; the third means they don't get as many opportunities to try. Re-signing a pass rusher for big bucks is a band-aid; there's a hell of a lot more that would need to be done to actually fix it.

$10M may be the market rate, but we're still stupid if we pay it in the long term. We are not going to catch up to and surpass the rest of the league by following the exact same playbook as them and blowing money in the free agent market for a return of 70 cents on the dollar. Wasn't what we did before when we were winning; started trying it recently and look where it's gotten us.

Yes, I'd advocate drafting and starting a rookie or mid-level free agent at OLB. Just as I'd advocate starting a rookie or mid-level free agent at CB, DL, or ILB. That's the thing about the salary cap. YOU HAVE TO. Pick two of those positions, doesn't matter which, and you have to. The cap gives you room for exactly two guys in the $10M range (we've now got seven, eight if you count Brown as close) and probably 5 or 6 guys total over $6M assuming one has a QB contract and another is a 10M guy. The rest have to be relatively cheap, or it fucks everything up. There is no "oh but market value" or "oh but we don't enough have depth here or there" - it's absolute. If you don't follow it, you pay the price, simple as that. Drafting well (better than we have) and finding the good mid-level free agents are mandatory. You don't do that, you don't win.

No defensive backfield can cover for more than a few seconds against an above average NFL offense. While the pass rush can look good due to pass coverage (hence the term "coverage sack") the defensive backfield can also look good due to the pass rush. The Steelers DB's have almost always played "soft" (assuming you mean large cushions on the outside and zone through the middle of field with a lack of jams at the LOS). It is almost the entire point of this version of the 3-4.

As for the OLB's -- let's take a look at that one. Harrison, Woodley, Porter, Hagans, Gildon, Greene, Brown, Lloyd. That about covers the "name" guys. Toss in Emmons and a couple of others. Almost all those guys were legitimate pass rushers outside of scheme. With a few exceptions (Porter, Brown, and a lesser extent Hagans) they "stunk" when they went elsewhere because they were done. Both the draft cost and the salary cap cost of keeping these guys around has gone up exponentially during the time the Steelers have run this scheme. Woodley wouldn't have been a 2nd rounder 10 years earlier. None of these guys would be getting 10+ million per year, but that is where the league is at right now.

I am by no means advocating that signing big money pass rushers is the way to fix the defense, but casting them aside because we don't like the salary scale league-wide is not necessarily a solid plan either.

As for starting rookies and mid-level guys; this team did that last year. Williams, Allen, Gay, McClendon, Jones, Thomas, Golden, other Allen, Heyward, etc are not getting paid big money and all saw significant starting unit time.

As for the cap, you don't get bonus points if you don't use it all. The Steelers must draft better. They must clean up the books from gambling on extending 3rd contracts to multiple members of a SB team. Of course that is true. It doesn't mean you walk away from locking up potentially crucial building blocks. They were right to give Woodley a contract when they did and they are right to attempt it again with Worilds. Two different players. No reason to expect the same result.

[Mojouw]

Worilds was slapped with the transition tag Monday. No offer sheets can come Worilds' way now. Per CBS Sports' Jason La Canfora, Worilds and the Steelers have made progress toward a long-term deal, and that remains the goal for both parties. Worilds and Brian Orakpo were set to be the most coveted 3-4 edge rushers in free agency. Orakpo was franchise tagged and would cost two first-round picks to sign away from Washington, and Worilds is now locked in with Pittsburgh. OLB LaMarr Woodley is now expected to be cut by the Steelers.

and THAT ladies and gentlemen, is the real good news of the day. not the fact that worilds signed his tag

That and that Worilds won't get a chance to even see the stupid money that is going to be tossed around starting March 11.

With years of small cap increase, giving these teams a bunch of extra cap space to play with, someone or a couple of someones are going to get silly with their owner's checkbooks.

9 million and change may end up seeming cheap.

[stillers4me]

KABOLY: Why did Worilds accept transition tag so soon?March 4, 2014by Mark Kaboly
http://blog.triblive.com/steel-mill/wp-content/uploads/sites/12/2014/03/Worilds.jpg (http://blog.triblive.com/steel-mill/wp-content/uploads/sites/12/2014/03/Worilds.jpg)The Steelers forced the hand of Jason Worilds when they surprised everybody involved and placed the rarely used transition tag (http://triblive.com/sports/steelers/5697849-74/steelers-worilds-tag#axzz2uya2NTzh) on the soon-to-be unrestricted free agent linebacker.
But now (and quite quickly) all the leverage has shifted right back to Worilds’ camp.
The Steelers have no choice but sign Worilds to a long term deal sooner rather than later. The Steelers know that. Worilds knows that.
Advantage: Worilds.
But in reality, that is what the Steelers wanted. They were well aware that when a transition tag is applied that interested teams tend to back off, and back off fast.
Why you ask?.............



Read more: http://blog.triblive.com/steel-mill/2014/03/04/kaboly-why-did-worilds-accept-transition-tag-so-soon/#ixzz2v2MYXYKg (http://blog.triblive.com/steel-mill/2014/03/04/kaboly-why-did-worilds-accept-transition-tag-so-soon/#ixzz2v2MYXYKg)
Follow us: @triblive on Twitter (http://ec.tynt.com/b/rw?id=d-D-nM8emr4ALpacwqm_6l&u=triblive) | triblive on Facebook (http://ec.tynt.com/b/rf?id=d-D-nM8emr4ALpacwqm_6l&u=triblive)

[steelreserve]

Before this process played out, I didn't actually know that using either of the tags locked out other teams from negotiating while the big money was still on the table. That week-long window makes a tremendous difference to a free agent who's high on the list.

This turned out to be a masterful move in terms of getting to keep the player we wanted, and probably one of only a few scenarios where the tranny tag actually has some use.


The lineman that Worilds is rushing in that photo above totally reminds me of The Blob from X-Men.

http://i1.ytimg.com/vi/5OOCBSvG5yo/hqdefault.jpg

[jb500ex]

Another in the recent long list of bad moves the steelers have made. Worilds isn't worth half the tag

[Dwinsgames]

Another in the recent long list of bad moves the steelers have made. Worilds isn't worth half the tag


we honestly do not know that for sure yet .....

until he has a complete off season , training camp , and preseason under his belt on that side and see what he does in the regular season we wont have those answers

[LLT]

Another in the recent long list of bad moves the steelers have made. Worilds isn't worth half the tag

I heard people calling Heyward a bust two years ago...I also heard people say that Brown was a bust after his first year....sooooo I will wait and see what he can do as a full time starter.

[fansince'76]

I heard people calling Heyward a bust two years ago...I also heard people say that Brown was a bust after his first year....sooooo I will wait and see what he can do as a full time starter.

Give it up - this dude still swears up and down Timmons is a bust, despite probably being the best player on the entire defense at this point. Not worth the keystrokes...

[blackngldblood]

Another in the recent long list of bad moves the steelers have made. Worilds isn't worth half the tag

No disrespect, but are there any players on the team that you do like?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[salamander]

No disrespect, but are there any players on the team that you do like?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Nope. He just comes on here to talk shit on the team.

Anyways, I hope Worilds and the Steelers agree on a long-term deal...and it doesn't end up like the Woodley situation.

[blackngldblood]

Nope. He just comes on here to talk shit on the team.

Anyways, I hope Worilds and the Steelers agree on a long-term deal...and it doesn't end up like the Woodley situation.

Absolutely agreed.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[jb500ex]

Nope. He just comes on here to talk shit on the team.

Anyways, I hope Worilds and the Steelers agree on a long-term deal...and it doesn't end up like the Woodley situation.
So the steelers decisions have been good in recent years ? You think the steelers linebacking core is good ? Fact is our linebacker group is bad and is paid like its the best unit in the league. We have some good players unfortunately recently we don't have many and we pay several like they are good but hey keep sucking the dick of a 8-8 team because they're doing such a great job. Now does anyone want to throw down some real cash on whether this turns out to be a good deal because I will bet it won't

[fansince'76]

So the steelers decisions have been good in recent years ? You think the steelers linebacking core is good ? Fact is our linebacker group is bad and is paid like its the best unit in the league. We have some good players unfortunately recently we don't have many and we pay several like they are good but hey keep sucking the dick of a 8-8 team because they're doing such a great job. Now does anyone want to throw down some real cash on whether this turns out to be a good deal because I will bet it won't

http://www.globalnerdy.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/cool-story-bro.jpg

[zulater]

http://www.globalnerdy.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/cool-story-bro.jpg

I might not think he was a troll if he so much as posted one positive thing about the Steelers. All we know about JB is he hates Pouncey, thinks Tomlin sucks, thinks Ben is overrated, thinks Jarvis Jones was a wasted draft pick, and of course now proclaims Worlidis overpaid, even though it's yet to be established what his contract actually is.


So JB if you're out there, how did you become a Steeler fan, give us an example of a fond Steelers memory or two. A favorite current and former Steeler player or coach.

[X-Terminator]

I might not think he was a troll if he so much as posted one positive thing about the Steelers. All we know about JB is he hates Pouncey, thinks Tomlin sucks, thinks Ben is overrated, thinks Jarvis Jones was a wasted draft pick, and of course now proclaims Worlidis overpaid, even though it's yet to be established what his contract actually is.


So JB if you're out there, how did you become a Steeler fan, give us an example of a fond Steelers memory or two. A favorite current and former Steeler player or coach.

Good luck with that.

Better off either ignoring him or treating him as comedy relief. That's about all his "opinion" is worth.

[86WARD]

Now extend Worilds, extend Miller, cut Levi Brown...and there's some good cap relief and you haven't gotten to Polamalu or Ike yet...

[blackngldblood]

Good luck with that.

Better off either ignoring him or treating him as comedy relief. That's about all his "opinion" is worth.

Maybe this is the Jamison Hensley account rumored to be trolling this board? IDK, makes no sense to keep on eating tacos if you don't like meat, lettuce, cheese, and tortillas.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Bluecoat96]

Maybe this is the Jamison Hensley account rumored to be trolling this board? IDK, makes no sense to keep on eating tacos if you don't like meat, lettuce, cheese, and tortillas.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

It's no rumor. He WAS trolling this forum.

[blackngldblood]

It's no rumor. He WAS trolling this forum.

And he possibly still is! Haha!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[LLT]

Ladies and gentlemen, the best of jb500ex


Fact is our linebacker group is bad

Worilds isn't worth half the tag

Losing worilds will be the best thing for this team.

Exactly and he (Ben) leads yet another offense that can't score and he has also shown he can't lead the team to the playoffs

Donahue got several good Players from most drafts when Colbert is lucky to get one or two. Donahue was far better

That's the going rate for a soft dumb linebacker (Timmons) who can't call the defense.

Timmons choked on the biggest play in that game

But like always Timmons failed

exactly what tools does he (jones) have? He's slow, weak and unathletic

Let the thug (Pouncey) wannabe go

Uh their coach got fired so fire our coach (Tomlin) and it will be even punishment
And I had to put these last two together for full affect!



Sorry Tomlin is gone after this year there is no way the rooneys don't realize he means nothing to this team

i could really get you crying in your panties with facts

[86WARD]

So pretty much an empty roster...lol.

[stillers4me]

441201724468903936

[X-Terminator]

Ladies and gentlemen, the best of jb500ex


And I had to put these last two together for full affect!

This one is my personal favorite:


Exactly and he (Ben) leads yet another offense that can't score and he has also shown he can't lead the team to the playoffs

Am I missing something? Was someone else named Roethlisberger the QB of the team when they went to the SB 3 times in 6 years, and won twice? Refresh my memory here..?


I don't call him the Forum Jester for nothing.

[86WARD]

But Ben was terrible in the Super Bowl...lol.

[steelerdude15]

Gotta love trolls. Anyways, I like that the Steelers and Worilds did this. I really hope he can blossom into a great outside linebacker and I hope that the Steelers keep him at his natural position, instead of moving him to the right side of the line. I hope they can get a long term deal done. I think this also lets us know that LaMarr's days as a Steeler are almost over.

[salamander]

Maybe jb500 is really Tim Lumber rising from the dead? :lol: :lol: :lol:

[steelerdude15]

Maybe jb500 is really Tim Lumber rising from the dead? :lol: :lol: :lol:

If it was, he'd be posting nonstop... I wonder whatever happened to Timmah?

[Steeldude]

I am all for keeping Worilds, but I don't want them to screw themselves like they did when they signed Woodley to that bloated contract. I wouldn't give Worilds more than $6 mil to $7 mil a season, tops.