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View Full Version : The secondary: A long, hard fall



stillers4me
02-16-2014, 09:04 AM
The Super Bowl champion Seattle Seahawks created more turnovers than any other team in the NFL last season, and they were particularly adept at intercepting passes. In 19 games, 16 regular-season and three playoff contests, they had 32.

Once among the best in the league at creating turnovers, the Steelers are now the antithesis of the Seahawks. Nothing drives that fact home more than this sobering statistic: In the past three seasons combined, the Steelers have 31 interceptions.

If this were the only problem in the secondary, the Steelers might have been able to overcome it. But there were other issues at hand. In addition to lacking playmakers who could take the ball away, the Steelers compounded their defensive issues by surrendering an inordinate number of big plays last season..............


Read more: http://www.post-gazette.com/sports/steelers/2014/02/16/Steelers-Sunday-The-secondary-A-long-hard-fall/stories/201402160065#ixzz2tUuTrClm

zulater
02-16-2014, 10:22 AM
Some of the inefficient play in the defensive backfield can be traced to last offseason when the Steelers failed to sign free agent cornerback Keenan Lewis, who left the team that drafted him for his hometown New Orleans Saints. Lewis was one of the best cornerbacks in the NFL last season. According to Pro Football Focus, he was targeted 68 times by opposing quarterbacks and allowed just 466 yards and three touchdowns. He intercepted four passes.

By contrast, the player the Steelers elected to keep over Lewis had one of the worst seasons of his distinguished career. Veteran Ike Taylor was targeted 113 times and gave up 71 receptions and 1,043 yards, the most by any cornerback in the NFL. Taylor allowed six touchdowns while in coverage and did not have an interception.

To demonstrate how much Taylor was targeted by opposing teams and how much success they had against him, consider this: he gave up 71 more yards than any other cornerback in the NFL and only two cornerbacks in the NFL were targeted more.

The Steelers have to make a decision on Taylor, who turns 34 in May. According to overthecap.com, he is an $11.9 million cap hit if he is on the roster next season, but the Steelers can save $7 million -- his 2014 salary -- by releasing him.



Read more: http://www.post-gazette.com/sports/steelers/2014/02/16/Steelers-Sunday-The-secondary-A-long-hard-fall/stories/201402160065#ixzz2tVDsTL4y

Not much decision to make if you ask me. Pay 7 million for the worst corner in the league? I mean you really think he's going to get better at 35? A low level free agent would be nor worse, and wouldn't cost you 7 million against the cap.

Dwinsgames
02-16-2014, 11:00 AM
Read more: http://www.post-gazette.com/sports/steelers/2014/02/16/Steelers-Sunday-The-secondary-A-long-hard-fall/stories/201402160065#ixzz2tVDsTL4y

Not much decision to make if you ask me. Pay 7 million for the worst corner in the league? I mean you really think he's going to get better at 35? A low level free agent would be nor worse, and wouldn't cost you 7 million against the cap.

he is not the worst CB in the league but he is not the same guy we are used to , hate to use the term spoiled , but Ike did spoil us in many ways he had the ability to erase other teams best WR , sure he had bad games here and there but over all he was as good as anyone at covering he just had no play making ability in terms of INTS ... so yes we where spoiled because that ability is no longer there ...

Draft Justin Gilbert take your lumps with him acclimating to the league and move on

zulater
02-16-2014, 11:34 AM
he is not the worst CB in the league but he is not the same guy we are used to , hate to use the term spoiled , but Ike did spoil us in many ways he had the ability to erase other teams best WR , sure he had bad games here and there but over all he was as good as anyone at covering he just had no play making ability in terms of INTS ... so yes we where spoiled because that ability is no longer there ...

Draft Justin Gilbert take your lumps with him acclimating to the league and move on

Statistically he gave up more yardage than any other corner last season, so overall he wasn't as "good as anyone." Not even close. That doesn't even account for the penalties he took, his bad tackling ,or his lack of support against the running game. Another year older he will be worse. Time to part ways with Ike. Just too bad it was a year too late.Had this realization been made last offseason perhaps they transistion tag Keenan Lewis in order to keep him?

Dwinsgames
02-16-2014, 11:45 AM
Statistically he gave up more yardage than any other corner last season, so overall he wasn't as "good as anyone." Not even close. That doesn't even account for the penalties he took, his bad tackling ,or his lack of support against the running game. Another year older he will be worse. Time to part ways with Ike. Just too bad it was a year too late.Had this realization been made last offseason perhaps they transistion tag Keenan Lewis in order to keep him?

clearly you skimmed through my post and jumped to a response as you totally missed this
because that ability is no longer there

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as a side note the transition tag is basically useless in todays NFL since the new cba , all it does is open a bidding war on your players and grant you the right to match highest offer , if you decline to match you get no compensation ....so it is nothing more than legalized tampering

zulater
02-16-2014, 12:51 PM
clearly you skimmed through my post and jumped to a response as you totally missed this

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as a side note the transition tag is basically useless in todays NFL since the new cba , all it does is open a bidding war on your players and grant you the right to match highest offer , if you decline to match you get no compensation ....so it is nothing more than legalized tampering

Could the Steelers have designated Lewis with the same restriction they placed on Sanders? Was it an either or proposition or were they unable to do that with Lewis, want to or not?

Dwinsgames
02-16-2014, 01:48 PM
Could the Steelers have designated Lewis with the same restriction they placed on Sanders? Was it an either or proposition or were they unable to do that with Lewis, want to or not?

no sanders was a restricted free agent ( Lewis had that designation the prior year but was an unknown quality to the league so no bites on him )

Mojouw
02-16-2014, 02:10 PM
Taylor is now the Steelers version of Champ Bailey. A player that still has some later career use, his play improved as the season went on and he was not asked to shadow the oppossing #1 WR, but is no longer worth the high amount of money his previous play did.

As is mentioned previously, pretty simple. Taylor either takes a pay cut or leaves.

GoSlash27
02-16-2014, 03:36 PM
Statistically he gave up more yardage than any other corner last season, so overall he wasn't as "good as anyone." Not even close. That doesn't even account for the penalties he took, his bad tackling ,or his lack of support against the running game. Another year older he will be worse. Time to part ways with Ike. Just too bad it was a year too late.Had this realization been made last offseason perhaps they transistion tag Keenan Lewis in order to keep him?

I disagree that that stat supports the claim that he's "the worst CB in the league". He was assigned to the opponents' #1 WRs, so you kinda expect that. Not only was he not the worst corner in the league, he wasn't even the worst corner on this team. Or at least LeBeau didn't seem to think so.

That aside, it's definitely past time to bring in the new blood.

Psycho Ward 86
02-16-2014, 04:02 PM
hate to beat a dead horse, but keenan lewis. oh how dumb that decision was.

Godfather
02-16-2014, 04:46 PM
hate to beat a dead horse, but keenan lewis. oh how dumb that decision was.

We never had a chance to keep him. His lifelong dream was to play for the Saints.

If any of us had NFL talent, would the team that drafted us have any shot of competing with an offer from the Steelers?

zulater
02-16-2014, 04:51 PM
I disagree that that stat supports the claim that he's "the worst CB in the league". He was assigned to the opponents' #1 WRs, so you kinda expect that. Not only was he not the worst corner in the league, he wasn't even the worst corner on this team. Or at least LeBeau didn't seem to think so.

That aside, it's definitely past time to bring in the new blood.

How about he had the worst yearof any corner in the league then. And by the end of the season he wasn't covering the number one receiver of the other team. Allen and Gay were doing better in coverage by seasons end. Ike isn't worth the money period.

Great Steeler career, but it was a poor management decision to let Lewis go and keep Ike last season.

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We never had a chance to keep him. His lifelong dream was to play for the Saints.

If any of us had NFL talent, would the team that drafted us have any shot of competing with an offer from the Steelers?

He was never made an offer by the Steelers when they had exclusive rights to negotiate with him. By his words he would have been open to the right offer if it was made. Maybe it couldn't have been done, but the Steelers never even tried to make it happen.

blackngldblood
02-16-2014, 04:54 PM
We never had a chance to keep him. His lifelong dream was to play for the Saints.

If any of us had NFL talent, would the team that drafted us have any shot of competing with an offer from the Steelers?

Hell, I'll sign a contract for 9.50 an hour with the Steelers. Whatever they need, I'll get destroyed by Calvin Johnston just to be on the team!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Psycho Ward 86
02-16-2014, 11:47 PM
We never had a chance to keep him. His lifelong dream was to play for the Saints.

If any of us had NFL talent, would the team that drafted us have any shot of competing with an offer from the Steelers?

how do you know if the steelers never even offered him a contract? He is averaging $5 million a year on his deal with the saints, an absurd bargain, especially considering he was arguably the top cornerback on the market at the time. A team that relies on the draft, then lets its young rising talent leave without even trying to keep them. That is quite possibly the finest recipe for disaster.

fansince'76
02-16-2014, 11:57 PM
We never had a chance to keep him. His lifelong dream was to play for the Saints.

how do you know if the steelers never even offered him a contract?

Certainly sounded like a kid who wanted to be in New Orleans...


"When I first walked in there (Saints) I felt like I was at home. I had opportunities to go to teams that offered me a lot more money. But everybody can't say that they had the opportunity to play in their back yard. Even when I was in Pittsburgh I would go back and watch four or five Saints games just to get acquainted with what they were doing."

Lewis' affinity for the Saints almost cost him on draft day.

"I almost didn't get drafted because I told all the teams my wish was to play for the Saints," he said. "I let that be known when I was coming out of college at the Senior Bowl."

http://www.nola.com/saints/index.ssf/2013/03/new_orleans_saints_have_reache_1.html

zulater
02-17-2014, 03:34 AM
Certainly sounded like a kid who wanted to be in New Orleans...



http://www.nola.com/saints/index.ssf/2013/03/new_orleans_saints_have_reache_1.html


http://www.twitlonger.com/show/lacpfi
I will miss my steelers fans, but they didn't offer me a deal. Sean Payton believe in me. I love him as a coach. Made me feel comfortable. I love that man. He is a king. I respect him so much!

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http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1568431-why-the-pittsburgh-steelers-made-a-mistake-letting-keenan-lewis-go


The Steelers didn't have to say goodbye, or in this case au revoir, to Lewis.

Lewis wanted to stay in Pittsburgh, according to Jim Wexell of Steel City Insider, and would have been willing to stay for $35 million over five years.

He took a lot less than that to go to New Orleans, and according to Spotrac , his deal with the Saints only counts $2.2 million against the salary cap next season.

Perhaps going home was a powerful enough lure for Lewis to take less money, but according to Spotrac the Steelers are about $13 million under the cap. They could have paid Lewis enough to cure his homesickness. They just didn't want to

I was on record at the time saying that I thought the Steelers should have made every effort to keep Lewis. And that had they done so they should have cut Ike Taylor as soon as it was to the best cap benefit.

steelreserve
02-17-2014, 11:45 AM
I was on record at the time saying that I thought the Steelers should have made every effort to keep Lewis. And that had they done so they should have cut Ike Taylor as soon as it was to the best cap benefit.

I think the only time cutting Taylor would have saved us any money against the cap is right now. We would've had to be super creative to fit another average $7M salary in there.

Mojouw
02-17-2014, 01:31 PM
Just so we can keep this all in context, Lewis graded out as Pro Football Focus #26 corner this season. While that is better than Taylor or Allen, we should be cautious of simply anointing Lewis as player that was worth ruining a salary structure for.

Psycho Ward 86
02-17-2014, 03:06 PM
Just so we can keep this all in context, Lewis graded out as Pro Football Focus #26 corner this season. While that is better than Taylor or Allen, we should be cautious of simply anointing Lewis as player that was worth ruining a salary structure for.

the saints defense, and especially the pass defense continued to excel despite jabrari greer and kenny vaccaro going down (ranking 2nd in pass defense, 4th in total defense, and 4th in scoring defense). coincidence? i dont think so. I have also seen a myriad of websites where keenan lewis was a duly noted pro bowl snub. I use PFF for reference as well, but i think with enough things put into context, that number isnt accurate. Joe Haden is ranked 18th among corners on PFF and that is not even close to true. patrick peterson is ranked 16th, also very false.

steelreserve
02-17-2014, 03:28 PM
Just so we can keep this all in context, Lewis graded out as Pro Football Focus #26 corner this season. While that is better than Taylor or Allen, we should be cautious of simply anointing Lewis as player that was worth ruining a salary structure for.

What do you mean ruining a salary structure? It was already ruined.

Mojouw
02-17-2014, 03:34 PM
What do you mean ruining a salary structure? It was already ruined.

Not really. After this year almost all the big 3rd contracts could be dealt with. Clark is likely gone and off the books, Polamalu will get a lowered #, one way or another after 2014 the Steelers will not be paying Woodley big money. That leaves Ben as the only really big contract on the books. Or am I missing something?

Coming in to the upcoming season this could (it depends on whether they take a scalpel or chainsaw to the roster) transition from being an "old" team up against the cap to a youngish team with projected cap room.

Paying Lewis north of $7 million per doesn't seem to fit with that plan.

Not saying that Lewis is not a valuable player, lord knows that this team is forever in search of DBs that can make plays, but is he really worth 6-8 million per year?

steelreserve
02-17-2014, 03:59 PM
Not really. After this year almost all the big 3rd contracts could be dealt with. Clark is likely gone and off the books, Polamalu will get a lowered #, one way or another after 2014 the Steelers will not be paying Woodley big money. That leaves Ben as the only really big contract on the books. Or am I missing something?

Yes. Timmons, Brown, Miller, and Taylor all are/were either $10M cap hits or on deals that pay close to $10M a year. Some had lower numbers this year, but we'll have to absorb more in coming seasons. The salary structure was completely fucked last offseason, and gets slightly better over the next two years, but it ain't a walk in the park.



Coming in to the upcoming season this could (it depends on whether they take a scalpel or chainsaw to the roster) transition from being an "old" team up against the cap to a youngish team with projected cap room.

Paying Lewis north of $7 million per doesn't seem to fit with that plan.

Not saying that Lewis is not a valuable player, lord knows that this team is forever in search of DBs that can make plays, but is he really worth 6-8 million per year?


That's where you're on to something. Lewis is probably better than either of our current CBs, but there would have been little sense in stretching ourselves to pay him $7M to be the best corner during a couple of down years. If we could have exchanged Taylor for Lewis and kept their salaries 1-for-1, that would've been great and let us get the team younger ... problem is we couldn't do that because Taylor's restructured deal was a poison pill by that point.

I'm coming to the understanding that the rookie classes of 2008-09 and maybe 2010 just came along at a time when it didn't make long-term sense to retain more than a select few. It's Ben, Timmons, Brown, and the players from the last couple of drafts and this upcoming one who will be the basis for most of whatever success we have in the future.

Mojouw
02-17-2014, 04:35 PM
Yes. Timmons, Brown, Miller, and Taylor all are/were either $10M cap hits or on deals that pay close to $10M a year. Some had lower numbers this year, but we'll have to absorb more in coming seasons. The salary structure was completely fucked last offseason, and gets slightly better over the next two years, but it ain't a walk in the park.





That's where you're on to something. Lewis is probably better than either of our current CBs, but there would have been little sense in stretching ourselves to pay him $7M to be the best corner during a couple of down years. If we could have exchanged Taylor for Lewis and kept their salaries 1-for-1, that would've been great and let us get the team younger ... problem is we couldn't do that because Taylor's restructured deal was a poison pill by that point.

I'm coming to the understanding that the rookie classes of 2008-09 and maybe 2010 just came along at a time when it didn't make long-term sense to retain more than a select few. It's Ben, Timmons, Brown, and the players from the last couple of drafts and this upcoming one who will be the basis for most of whatever success we have in the future.

Well said. That at least sounds like there is a rebuilding template in mind.

zulater
02-17-2014, 05:55 PM
Just so we can keep this all in context, Lewis graded out as Pro Football Focus #26 corner this season. While that is better than Taylor or Allen, we should be cautious of simply anointing Lewis as player that was worth ruining a salary structure for.



I take everything PFF says with a huge grain of salt. Give you an example, after the 2nd Ravens game this year they gave Mike Adams a high grade. I watched that game again with a particular eye on Adams. He sucked as always that game. The only reason he didn't give up 4 or 5 sacks was because he was given help on every passing play. Several plays he stood there doing nothing while a tight end, or running back engaged "his assignment". It was like a gay guy at a Christmas party with a hooker, the Steelers saw to it that he wasn't exposed.

You think Lewis is the 26th best corner? Go ask Desean Jackson of the Eagles.