Analysis : Economics key to Woodley's fate

[stillers4me]

Should the Steelers keep LaMarr Woodley or let him go and re-sign Jason Worilds?

General manager Kevin Colbert said they could keep both, but he said it with little conviction and, for many reasons, it just is not conceivable that both Woodley and Worilds will be on the team in 2014.

Forget the finances, who do you start? Worilds is not returning for backup money and you cannot pay him starter money and not start him. They did not draft Jarvis Jones in the first round last year to be a backup in his second season.

So, one must stay and one most go.........


Read more: http://www.post-gazette.com/sports/steelers/2014/02/16/On-the-Steelers-Analysis-Economics-key-to-Woodley-s-fate/stories/201402160057#ixzz2tUtSvDhw

[Mojouw]

This assumes that Jarvis should continue to be handed a starting job on a silver platter. I never understood why that happened in 2013. I completely fail to see why it is happening again this year when Jones has demonstrated almost zero production. Remember when everyone was calling Worilds a waste of a draft pick? What has Jones done that is any different?

At least when Woodley has been healthy he has produced. Woodley and Worilds on the outside would be the most effective (at least in terms of pass rush) OLB tandem this team can field right now. Do I know if the economics of that can work? Of course not. Will Woodley stay healthy enough to even allow the team to contemplate that? Not likely.

But to simply hand Jones the starting job so he can contribute no sacks, a scant # of tackles for loss seems to be compounding your mistakes.

/ducks behind a desk.

[Dwinsgames]

This assumes that Jarvis should continue to be handed a starting job on a silver platter. I never understood why that happened in 2013. I completely fail to see why it is happening again this year when Jones has demonstrated almost zero production. Remember when everyone was calling Worilds a waste of a draft pick? What has Jones done that is any different?

At least when Woodley has been healthy he has produced. Woodley and Worilds on the outside would be the most effective (at least in terms of pass rush) OLB tandem this team can field right now. Do I know if the economics of that can work? Of course not. Will Woodley stay healthy enough to even allow the team to contemplate that? Not likely.

But to simply hand Jones the starting job so he can contribute no sacks, a scant # of tackles for loss seems to be compounding your mistakes.

/ducks behind a desk.

problem is Worilds is pretty much invisible on one side and productive on the other , Woodley mans that side and has not proved to be anything n the other either ....

Taking Jones off the field and stunting his growth so to speak does not on paper anyways give you better numbers in terms of sacks and that is before you bother to question ability to stay healthy ...

that is yet to be question posed to or answered by the committee to resign Worilds we have here on the board , granted he had a very nice season last year but that is the first year he has had that looked so good and it is the first one he has been fully healthy in , so anointment of a large contract IMO should be done with cation and come with escalators or a per game played basis ( hard to do today for guys who are what is seemingly on the brink of stardom ) but I would hate like hell to sign Worilds to a long term deal that ends up being Woodley Part 2 based on brightest flash in his pan and durability concerns ...

not really looking for anyone to answer that as I am not sure there is an answer but it is perplexing to think about and almost scary to be honest

[Mojouw]

problem is Worilds is pretty much invisible on one side and productive on the other , Woodley mans that side and has not proved to be anything n the other either ....

Taking Jones off the field and stunting his growth so to speak does not on paper anyways give you better numbers in terms of sacks and that is before you bother to question ability to stay healthy ...

that is yet to be question posed to or answered by the committee to resign Worilds we have here on the board , granted he had a very nice season last year but that is the first year he has had that looked so good and it is the first one he has been fully healthy in , so anointment of a large contract IMO should be done with cation and come with escalators or a per game played basis ( hard to do today for guys who are what is seemingly on the brink of stardom ) but I would hate like hell to sign Worilds to a long term deal that ends up being Woodley Part 2 based on brightest flash in his pan and durability concerns ...

not really looking for anyone to answer that as I am not sure there is an answer but it is perplexing to think about and almost scary to be honest

I agree with all of that. I just think that the equation of "resign Worilds and start him at LOLB + Jones is assumed to be a stud at ROLB + cut Woodley because he is lazy and expensive = SUCCESS!!!" is far too simplistic of an "analysis". It fails to take the following into consideration:

1. Woodley is by far (and any way you want to slice the stats will back this up) the most effective pass rusher on a per rush attempt (not per snap) basis.
2. What evidence is there that Jones is really significantly better than Worilds, Woodley, or Carter?
3. Can Worilds stay healthy and effective for an entire season?
4. Can Woodley play ROLB? If so is he better at it than Jones or Carter?
5. Can any of the potential starters at OLB be effective in coverage on RBs and TEs?

All five of those are pretty critical to how you slice and dice the OLB group. That is before you even take economics into consideration. But it is far simpler to only see the $$ when you write a crappy sports column. The reality is way too murky for the typical lazy analysis. Worilds has about 8 effective games of football on time. The rest is miles of potential and youth. Woodley has much more effective tape, but age and a recent inability to stay on the field going against him. Jones has potential seen by some and chance of being a "bust" as seen by some others. Carter was viewed as possessing potential and a lethal first step when he came out of school. Where is he in all of this? Besides rushing the passer can any of these players consistently anchor the edge against the run? Cover in space?

But whatever, lets all simply focus on the injuries and the restructured $ amount.

[Dwinsgames]

I agree with all of that. I just think that the equation of "resign Worilds and start him at LOLB + Jones is assumed to be a stud at ROLB + cut Woodley because he is lazy and expensive = SUCCESS!!!" is far too simplistic of an "analysis". It fails to take the following into consideration:

1. Woodley is by far (and any way you want to slice the stats will back this up) the most effective pass rusher on a per rush attempt (not per snap) basis.
2. What evidence is there that Jones is really significantly better than Worilds, Woodley, or Carter?
3. Can Worilds stay healthy and effective for an entire season?
4. Can Woodley play ROLB? If so is he better at it than Jones or Carter?
5. Can any of the potential starters at OLB be effective in coverage on RBs and TEs?

All five of those are pretty critical to how you slice and dice the OLB group. That is before you even take economics into consideration. But it is far simpler to only see the $$ when you write a crappy sports column. The reality is way too murky for the typical lazy analysis. Worilds has about 8 effective games of football on time. The rest is miles of potential and youth. Woodley has much more effective tape, but age and a recent inability to stay on the field going against him. Jones has potential seen by some and chance of being a "bust" as seen by some others. Carter was viewed as possessing potential and a lethal first step when he came out of school. Where is he in all of this? Besides rushing the passer can any of these players consistently anchor the edge against the run? Cover in space?

But whatever, lets all simply focus on the injuries and the restructured $ amount.


hard to argue , but I hold out great hope for Jarvis yet at this point

[Mojouw]

hard to argue , but I hold out great hope for Jarvis yet at this point

It is not that I think Jones won't or can't be a good or even great player. It is simply that I am not comfortable with him being simply handed the starting job. When finally given a run of play that was not marred by injury or inexperience, Worilds put up a great stretch. Why was he not given an opportunity prior to that? Now the entire decision hangs on the front office and coaching staff's opinion of an 8 game stretch and Woodley's balky hamstrings.

And by the way, what happened with Carter? Does he totally stink? Is he waiting for a chance?

Also if all these guys can play, why are they not rotated more? Especially late in games. Fresh legs attacking a tired OT might be a path to success. It isn't like several recent super bowl champions haven't rotated pass rushers or anything.

[blackngldblood]

I just personally feel like if we let Worilds walk in free agency and keep Woodley, the Taylor/Lewis debacle from last season will pail in comparison. I could, and probably am wrong in a certain context on this though. Lol.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Mojouw]

I just personally feel like if we let Worilds walk in free agency and keep Woodley, the Taylor/Lewis debacle from last season will pail in comparison. I could, and probably am wrong in a certain context on this though. Lol.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Not letting Sanders go to the Pats for a 3rd rounder is starting to look like it might lap the field for stupidity. I don't know who they would have played at the #2 WR spot without him, but...

[steelreserve]

Woodley needs to go regardless, so we can put the fiasco of The Contract squarely in our rearview mirror. No matter what else happens, that's necessary to get our team back to some sort of financial sanity.

So do that first and take it from there, as far as I'm concerned.

[X-Terminator]

So Jones isn't an All-Star in his first year = bust. Outstanding logic by some of our fans. And then people wonder why I'm so critical of them at times. No damn patience.

Sorry Mojouw...just seeing that posted got my goat a bit. Nothing personal against you.

[86WARD]

Not letting Sanders go to the Pats for a 3rd rounder is starting to look like it might lap the field for stupidity. I don't know who they would have played at the #2 WR spot without him, but...

Agree!! Looking really dumb. They could've found someone to play that spot...


So Jones isn't an All-Star in his first year = bust. Outstanding logic by some of our fans. And then people wonder why I'm so critical of them at times. No damn patience.

Sorry Mojouw...just seeing that posted got my goat a bit. Nothing personal against you.

And Agree...

[Dwinsgames]

So Jones isn't an All-Star in his first year = bust. Outstanding logic by some of our fans. And then people wonder why I'm so critical of them at times. No damn patience.

Sorry Mojouw...just seeing that posted got my goat a bit. Nothing personal against you.


sorry but that is not what he said at all ...


It is not that I think Jones won't or can't be a good or even great player. It is simply that I am not comfortable with him being simply handed the starting job. When finally given a run of play that was not marred by injury or inexperience, Worilds put up a great stretch. Why was he not given an opportunity prior to that? Now the entire decision hangs on the front office and coaching staff's opinion of an 8 game stretch and Woodley's balky hamstrings.


and this ...



This assumes that Jarvis should continue to be handed a starting job on a silver platter. I never understood why that happened in 2013. I completely fail to see why it is happening again this year when Jones has demonstrated almost zero production. Remember when everyone was calling Worilds a waste of a draft pick? What has Jones done that is any different?


no place did he say bust .... little less skimming and a little more reading might be in line buddy :)

[Mojouw]

So Jones isn't an All-Star in his first year = bust. Outstanding logic by some of our fans. And then people wonder why I'm so critical of them at times. No damn patience.

Sorry Mojouw...just seeing that posted got my goat a bit. Nothing personal against you.

No worries. It isn't so much that I think Jones either is or will be a bust; it is just that he was handed a starting job based on nothing other than draft status and hype. And lets be honest, he did not play that well nor did he play that bad for most of his first season.

The trouble is not so much Jones play, it is that by playing him the Steelers left themselves with even less to go on with the the other OLBs. If Worilds is now this must sign and must start pass rushing force, how was this missed? Why was he not given more of a chance? If the Steelers knew he has better at LOLB, as some claim, then why was a swapped combination of Woodley and Worilds not tried at some point? Heck, they even had all pre-season. With Harrison leaving and the contract status of Worilds and Woodley not exactly a mystery, I just think this whole situation was mishandled.

With a number of roster positions that need an injection of youth and quite frankly, talent, was it truly necessary to take an OLB #1 overall last draft? If the front offices' new found obsession with getting a tall WR is indeed the truth, how does Cordarelle Patterson last year and maybe outside LB this year not look better? Then they would have had a full season to evaluate Worilds, Woodley, and Carter.

It may all be hindsight. It isn't really a knock on Jones, I just can't shake the thought that it was a panic move. It will really look worse if some of the edge rushers in this draft class perform better.

Additionally the drafting of Jones with Worilds and Carter on the roster brings up the whole issue of player development (or rather lack thereof) and allocation of resources. That is 3 draft picks at the position (2 of which at a premium cost) in the last handful of drafts with there having been no extended opportunities due to injury and missed off-seasons to see what WOrilds and Carter could due prior to this season. Additionally the limited tape the Steelers due have of Carter and Worilds (prior to this year) is no worse than the tape Jones put down this year. So again, I am simply asking, was Jones the "best" use of 1st round pick in 2013?

[Dwinsgames]

The trouble is not so much Jones play, it is that by playing him the Steelers left themselves with even less to go on with the the other OLBs. If Worilds is now this must sign and must start pass rushing force, how was this missed? Why was he not given more of a chance? If the Steelers knew he has better at LOLB, as some claim, then why was a swapped combination of Woodley and Worilds not tried at some point? Heck, they even had all pre-season. With Harrison leaving and the contract status of Worilds and Woodley not exactly a mystery, I just think this whole situation was mishandled.




Worilds was hurt in the preseason giving Jones a leg up and minimizing the ability to play with the formations , ( that is my knock on Worilds he is hurt a lot mostly nagging stuff but keeps him off the field all the same )



Additionally the drafting of Jones with Worilds and Carter on the roster brings up the whole issue of player development (or rather lack thereof) and allocation of resources. That is 3 draft picks at the position (2 of which at a premium cost) in the last handful of drafts with there having been no extended opportunities due to injury and missed off-seasons to see what WOrilds and Carter could due prior to this season. Additionally the limited tape the Steelers due have of Carter and Worilds (prior to this year) is no worse than the tape Jones put down this year. So again, I am simply asking, was Jones the "best" use of 1st round pick in 2013?

to soon to tell , if Jones racks up 8-10 sacks ( or more ) and a ton of pressures this season and his bit mitt produces some turnovers from his " swat " this question will have answered itself .....

we did see some Carter this past season not alot but a couple games and he was looking much improved from where I sit , still not sacks but he was getting after the QB and forcing guys to scramble off their mark ...still far from a " finished product " but improvement is crucial and lets face it not many 5th round picks become starters in this era at OLB in the 3-4 he is looking like decent depth as of now whereas before I am not so sure I would have been willing to say even that ....

[dislocatedday]

So Jones isn't an All-Star in his first year = bust. Outstanding logic by some of our fans. And then people wonder why I'm so critical of them at times. No damn patience.

Sorry Mojouw...just seeing that posted got my goat a bit. Nothing personal against you.

I clearly remember when many fans were calling Polamalu "Bustamalu" after his first year........and obviously those fans ate their words in a big way starting with Polamalu's 2nd year when he took off. Timmons also did not look strong in his rookie year if I remember correctly. There are plenty of other guys, particularly on the defense, who did not look like world beaters their first seasons (Ike Taylor, Keenan Lewis, Cameron Heyward, etc.). I think Jones will turn out just fine, but we'll have to wait and see to verify that obviously.

[X-Terminator]

No worries. It isn't so much that I think Jones either is or will be a bust; it is just that he was handed a starting job based on nothing other than draft status and hype. And lets be honest, he did not play that well nor did he play that bad for most of his first season.

The trouble is not so much Jones play, it is that by playing him the Steelers left themselves with even less to go on with the the other OLBs. If Worilds is now this must sign and must start pass rushing force, how was this missed? Why was he not given more of a chance? If the Steelers knew he has better at LOLB, as some claim, then why was a swapped combination of Woodley and Worilds not tried at some point? Heck, they even had all pre-season. With Harrison leaving and the contract status of Worilds and Woodley not exactly a mystery, I just think this whole situation was mishandled.

With a number of roster positions that need an injection of youth and quite frankly, talent, was it truly necessary to take an OLB #1 overall last draft? If the front offices' new found obsession with getting a tall WR is indeed the truth, how does Cordarelle Patterson last year and maybe outside LB this year not look better? Then they would have had a full season to evaluate Worilds, Woodley, and Carter.

It may all be hindsight. It isn't really a knock on Jones, I just can't shake the thought that it was a panic move. It will really look worse if some of the edge rushers in this draft class perform better.

Additionally the drafting of Jones with Worilds and Carter on the roster brings up the whole issue of player development (or rather lack thereof) and allocation of resources. That is 3 draft picks at the position (2 of which at a premium cost) in the last handful of drafts with there having been no extended opportunities due to injury and missed off-seasons to see what WOrilds and Carter could due prior to this season. Additionally the limited tape the Steelers due have of Carter and Worilds (prior to this year) is no worse than the tape Jones put down this year. So again, I am simply asking, was Jones the "best" use of 1st round pick in 2013?

Thanks for understanding. I think Jones was picked solely because the FO and coaching staff either didn't know what they had in Worilds, or that they didn't believe he was going to be an impact player. Most likely it was the latter. So the plan was for Woodley to stay on the left side and Jones would eventually take over for Worilds on the right after getting some spot duty and time to absorb the defensive scheme. However, Foote's injury and Woodley's glass hammys giving out yet again forced them to change that plan. Worilds making such an impact on the left side further complicated matters. When Woodley came back the first time, I think he and Worilds were going to switch sides depending on the scheme and game situation, but that Woodley was going to see the majority of the time on the left and Worilds on the right. That would have meant Jones' playing time was going to be limited again. But then Woodley got hurt a 2nd time and went on IR, and that was the end of that.

So now the team is at a crossroads. Do they cut Woodley and give Worilds the job and the salary that goes along with it? Or do they keep Woodley and let Worilds go? Personally, I'd rather them do the former, if they are indeed serious about getting younger on defense. I've always thought Woodley was overrated and overpaid anyway.

All in all, I don't think picking Jones was a panic move. And in actuality, I don't believe in simply handing someone a starting job unless they have earned it. I just have an aversion to calling a player a bust when he's only played one season. I remember a lot of fans saying the same thing about Troy in his rookie season, and I think we all know how that turned out. Not saying Jones will end up being a HOF player, just that he has the potential to be very good, and the fans need to be a little more patient.

[dislocatedday]

I would bet that the Steelers are in talks with Worilds now to try and work out a deal. If they can come to an agreement, then they will make the move to cut Woodley shortly thereafter (either cut him immediately or make him a June 1st cut). I don't think the front office will address Woodley until they know whether they can keep Jason or not.

[Dwinsgames]

I would bet that the Steelers are in talks with Worilds now to try and work out a deal. If they can come to an agreement, then they will make the move to cut Woodley shortly thereafter (either cut him immediately or make him a June 1st cut). I don't think the front office will address Woodley until they know whether they can keep Jason or not.


I think the only way it makes sense to cut woodley is after june 1 , not the Rooney way normally with a player who will catch on elsewhere but one they are forced into doing because of cap implications , they also MIGHT give Lamar the chance to speak with other teams to work out a deal in a extended and sign /trade deal that would make him somewhat more desirable and give the Steelers a chance to unload him sooner yet allow Lamar to try and pick his destination and get there sooner ... we will have to wait and see

[steelreserve]

No worries. It isn't so much that I think Jones either is or will be a bust; it is just that he was handed a starting job based on nothing other than draft status and hype. And lets be honest, he did not play that well nor did he play that bad for most of his first season.

The trouble is not so much Jones play, it is that by playing him the Steelers left themselves with even less to go on with the the other OLBs. If Worilds is now this must sign and must start pass rushing force, how was this missed? Why was he not given more of a chance? If the Steelers knew he has better at LOLB, as some claim, then why was a swapped combination of Woodley and Worilds not tried at some point? Heck, they even had all pre-season. With Harrison leaving and the contract status of Worilds and Woodley not exactly a mystery, I just think this whole situation was mishandled.

The way we handled it looks like we came into this season under the assumption that Worilds was a bust - which was an accurate assessment, based on his performance up until halfway through this season. Then suddenly he turned into a legitimate player and we had to rethink everything.

I'm still not 100% sold on Worilds as the answer. Half a good season in 4 years, just happening to occur right at contract time, is not the best argument in the world to give out a big contract. It's the textbook setup for a trap, and in fact, the only reason I'm not completely convinced it would be trouble is that the setup is so perfect it's almost too much to believe.

[Psycho Ward 86]

The way we handled it looks like we came into this season under the assumption that Worilds was a bust - which was an accurate assessment, based on his performance up until halfway through this season. Then suddenly he turned into a legitimate player and we had to rethink everything.

I'm still not 100% sold on Worilds as the answer. Half a good season in 4 years, just happening to occur right at contract time, is not the best argument in the world to give out a big contract. It's the textbook setup for a trap, and in fact, the only reason I'm not completely convinced it would be trouble is that the setup is so perfect it's almost too much to believe.

if this is going to be our mentality with all of young, rising potential stars who WE drafted, then we will never be a great team again. Setbacks happen. Worilds started his career not being able to move up the depth chart because of 2 All-pro OLB's starting in front of him. Then he had a substantial wrist surgery that knocked out a whole offseason for him. Then he had the NFL lockout. He also had to learn in what is widely considered an extremely difficult defense to learn. Being a raw, converted defensive end did not help. All things considered, props to worilds for pulling through, even though i was admittedly pissed it took so long.

All im saying is, out of woodley, jarvis, and worilds, worilds is honestly probably our best bet for being both healthy AND effective out of that trio. Woodley will be 30 by midseason and how much longer do we expect him to be both healthy and effective when he hasnt been both in 3 years? We dont know what we have in jarvis yet. What if worilds walks, woodley continues to be either overweight and ineffective or injured, and jarvis still needs to get his feet wet? That will be one hell of a fiasco.

Just by cutting ike taylor, levi brown, and lamaar woodley (june 1st designated cut), we will save $17 million, and be $7 million under the cape (the projected salary cap on most websites is about $126 million I believe). I think we just might be able to do it

[Mojouw]

I have no idea how any of this would work with the CBA, but Suggs just set the benchmark for both lowering Woodley's deal/cap #'s and for anything that Worilds may even approach.

http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/2237/terrell-suggs


As for Worilds, he had a limited chance to play prior to this season. When he did play he looked like a player with pass-rush potential and troubles in the run game and coverage. Shame on the Steelers for not finding out how much pass-rush potential prior to being painted into a contract year corner.

Why does this team never rotate edge rushers in obvious passing situations? That would give these young guys some experience and I am tired of the old song and dance that rookies can't contribute in the team's complex system. Bullshit. Look around the league. There are rookie defenders contributing all over the place in limited roles. Does every other team play a simpler system?

[Psycho Ward 86]

I have no idea how any of this would work with the CBA, but Suggs just set the benchmark for both lowering Woodley's deal/cap #'s and for anything that Worilds may even approach.

http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/2237/terrell-suggs

in the form of an extension maybe. Do we really want to extend woodley? sounds risky as hell with a limited window of reward. the only positive change to woodley's contract imo is a june 1st designated cut or a paycut, which seems highly doubtful

[Mojouw]

in the form of an extension maybe. Do we really want to extend woodley? sounds risky as hell with a limited window of reward. the only positive change to woodley's contract imo is a june 1st designated cut or a paycut, which seems highly doubtful

Again, the mechanics of the CBA and player contracts make my head hurt, so I really don't know if this is possible. But what about approaching Woodley with an extension (or whatever you need to call it) that lowers his cap hit and his guaranteed money by basically ripping up the old contract and redoing everything after 2014? Basically tell him they were going to cut him anyways, Suggs just set the market, and either way the team has to take some salary cap medicine in 2014. So what about taking your medicine and keeping a potentially useful player?

Of course maybe the #'s can not be forced to work the way I am envisioning.

[Dwinsgames]

Again, the mechanics of the CBA and player contracts make my head hurt, so I really don't know if this is possible. But what about approaching Woodley with an extension (or whatever you need to call it) that lowers his cap hit and his guaranteed money by basically ripping up the old contract and redoing everything after 2014? Basically tell him they were going to cut him anyways, Suggs just set the market, and either way the team has to take some salary cap medicine in 2014. So what about taking your medicine and keeping a potentially useful player?

Of course maybe the #'s can not be forced to work the way I am envisioning.


it cant work that way bud , sorry ... the reason the ravens where able to do that with suggs is he did not have a backlog of money due him ...

with woodley any attempt to reword his deal makes all backlogged money come due on the cap for us making him even more expencive ( as I understand it anyways ) if I am wrong someone please point it out and explain why I am wrong so I can come to understand it better ....

but I believe as I understand it this is correct

[Psycho Ward 86]

Again, the mechanics of the CBA and player contracts make my head hurt, so I really don't know if this is possible. But what about approaching Woodley with an extension (or whatever you need to call it) that lowers his cap hit and his guaranteed money by basically ripping up the old contract and redoing everything after 2014? Basically tell him they were going to cut him anyways, Suggs just set the market, and either way the team has to take some salary cap medicine in 2014. So what about taking your medicine and keeping a potentially useful player?

Of course maybe the #'s can not be forced to work the way I am envisioning.

suggs new contract still averages $7 million a season until he's 35 years old. waste of money to pay a 'potentially' useful player that much money. especially not a guy with a myriad of problems: overweight, unhealthy, age (kind of. ill throw that in there because he's had an injury history for quite some time before the age of 30)

[Mojouw]

it cant work that way bud , sorry ... the reason the ravens where able to do that with suggs is he did not have a backlog of money due him ...

with woodley any attempt to reword his deal makes all backlogged money come due on the cap for us making him even more expencive ( as I understand it anyways ) if I am wrong someone please point it out and explain why I am wrong so I can come to understand it better ....

but I believe as I understand it this is correct

Well it was a thought...apparently not a very good one...but that is par for the course.

[Dwinsgames]

Well it was a thought...apparently not a very good one...but that is par for the course.

haha .....

I like having ya around here ( am sure others do as well ) if for nothing else but comic relief ... (JUST KIDDING )

check out the in for visit thread if ya havent already

[steelreserve]

it cant work that way bud , sorry ... the reason the ravens where able to do that with suggs is he did not have a backlog of money due him ...

with woodley any attempt to reword his deal makes all backlogged money come due on the cap for us making him even more expencive ( as I understand it anyways ) if I am wrong someone please point it out and explain why I am wrong so I can come to understand it better ....

but I believe as I understand it this is correct


The way it works is, if you extend a player's contract, the prorated bonus money from the original contract stays as-is, just like no new contract was signed. Then any signing bonus on the new contract is spread out over the term of the new deal.

So we would not have to eat all the dead money for Woodley's current contract at once ... we'd still be charged $7M this year and $7M next year, then a portion of whatever additional bonus is on the new contract would go on top of that. From a dead-money standpoint, it could only get worse, but it WOULD let us monkey around with his base salary. Theoretically, we could pay him the league minimum, move $6M into a signing bonus and only eat a $3M-$4M charge for his "salary" instead of another $7M.

However, the only way we could get significant cap savings that way would probably mean a lengthy backloaded extension and 11 words that no fan wants to hear: "... assures that Woodley will finish his career with the Pittsburgh Steelers." We'd probably have to do that with the understanding that we'd restructure it again when it got to the backloaded part, making our cap problems even worse.

In other words, yes, we probably could extend Woodley to gain a small short-term cap savings in exchange for a crippling long-term expense, but if we actually did that, the GM and anyone else involved with it should be taken out back and shot.