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Dwinsgames
01-18-2014, 10:42 PM
http://www.nfl.com/draft/2014/mock-drafts/daniel-jeremiah/175601


don't get me wrong I like the player but not at 15 !!!!!!

esp when so much value is still on the board a trade down ( maybe a couple /3 times ) still nets you the same player

Shoes
01-18-2014, 10:47 PM
When was the last time this team traded down, Dwins?

DobbySayLaceUp
01-18-2014, 11:35 PM
i like the player, but i also feel like our ageing D is something that should be addressed with this draft and nice shutdown DB would nice, and maybe even some O-line.

ALLD
01-19-2014, 02:42 AM
No way we take a WR in the 1st round unless it is Jerry Rice Jr. and he is not on the board.

Aussie_steeler
01-19-2014, 03:01 AM
I think when all is said and done Kelvin Benjamin is a top 20 player.

Over the next few months internet draft geeks will have access to more information ( combine data, professional scouting reports and reliable information accessed from war rooms) and our draft boards will start to better resemble the boards of all 32 NFL teams.

On my draft board ( an Aussie on the other side of the world who has never played American Football who watches internet film and reads internet reports) I have Kelvin Benjamin ahead of Mike Evans.

Why you say???? Evans plays purely on the right hand side of the field. Texas A&M required him to stay solely on that side. Why??? Not because of his skills set I am guessing but to facilitate the Panic Style football that Johnny Manziel plays. Run downfield and wait for Johnny Panic throw it up for you to climb over the shorter DB's.

When compared to Benjamin I see a little bit more than what Evans has shown. He probably looks smoother because Jameis Winston throws a better ball.

At the moment I have four options at #15 and in this order.

1. Eric Ebron TE
2. Kelvin Benjamin WR
3. Mike Evans WR
4. Jace Amaro WR

I would be happy with any of those four. ( that means I could trade back 3 times and still get one of the those players if all four were available at 15)

For the record my value chart is:

1. Jadeveon Clowney
2. Sammy Watkins
3. Anthony Barr
4. Khalil Mack
5. Jake Matthews
6. Greg Robinson
7. Teddy Bridgewater
8. Kony Ealy
9. Blake Bortles
10. Darqueze Dennard
11. Rashede Hageman
12. Johnny Manziel
13. Eric Ebron
14. Kelvin Benjamin
15. Justin Gilbert
16. Mike Evans
17. Jace Amaro
18. CJ Mosley
19. Stephon Tuitt
20. Marquise Lee

stillers4me
01-19-2014, 07:25 AM
i like the player, but i also feel like our ageing D is something that should be addressed with this draft and nice shutdown DB would nice, and maybe even some O-line.

I also hope we focus heavy on the defense in the draft this year. Nobody fears us anymore.......that's just not right!

And welcome to SU! :tt03:

SteelerFanInStl
01-19-2014, 09:01 AM
I'd rather have Clinton-Dix or Dennard at #15.

I like the size of Benjamin but I think he's a gamble that early.

zulater
01-19-2014, 09:28 AM
I also hope we focus heavy on the defense in the draft this year. Nobody fears us anymore.......that's just not right!

And welcome to SU! :tt03:

There's an argument to be made that another weapon will put the offense over the top and make them truly an elite unit. And the offense taking the next step could aid the defense more than any single player available at 15, in as much as getting out to a quick lead puts pressure on opposing offenses. Dictating the terms of the game makes your opponent predictable, and more mistake prone. So if there's the right fit at WR or TE, that could put this team's offense to a higher level, go get him.

Dwinsgames
01-19-2014, 10:02 AM
I think when all is said and done Kelvin Benjamin is a top 20 player.

Over the next few months internet draft geeks will have access to more information ( combine data, professional scouting reports and reliable information accessed from war rooms) and our draft boards will start to better resemble the boards of all 32 NFL teams.

On my draft board ( an Aussie on the other side of the world who has never played American Football who watches internet film and reads internet reports) I have Kelvin Benjamin ahead of Mike Evans.

Why you say???? Evans plays purely on the right hand side of the field. Texas A&M required him to stay solely on that side. Why??? Not because of his skills set I am guessing but to facilitate the Panic Style football that Johnny Manziel plays. Run downfield and wait for Johnny Panic throw it up for you to climb over the shorter DB's.

When compared to Benjamin I see a little bit more than what Evans has shown. He probably looks smoother because Jameis Winston throws a better ball.

At the moment I have four options at #15 and in this order.

1. Eric Ebron TE
2. Kelvin Benjamin WR
3. Mike Evans WR
4. Jace Amaro WR

I would be happy with any of those four. ( that means I could trade back 3 times and still get one of the those players if all four were available at 15)




pretty much my feeling in the OP ... if a O weapon is the target at 15 it should be fluid enough to not take it at 15 and add value to that pick with mini trade backs so you can assure you still are able to get 1 of them and add value to the selection .....

a 3 spot trade back from 15 to 18 is essentially a 3rd round selection in terms of value http://www.draftcountdown.com/features/Value-Chart.php

if all 4 players are on the board you try and trade back gain that 3rd round pick .....

after such trade back if most of them are still there rinse repeat until you feel as though you have to make the pick to be assured getting one of them ... you could do this twice with limited risk , 3 times is possible , considering we sit without any 3rd round picks in this draft prior to any comps being handed out and the 3rd round looking to be a strong round in terms of potential talent it is without question the prudent thing to do

Dwinsgames
01-19-2014, 10:09 AM
When was the last time this team traded down, Dwins?


2009 we traded down and clear out of the second round

st33lersguy
01-19-2014, 10:28 AM
Passing up Clinton-Dix and Dennard to reach for a WR, is this guy a Ravens fan who was just doing some wishful thinking

Devilsdancefloor
01-19-2014, 10:33 AM
nah i dont want a WR in the 1st (Evans wouldnt make me cry if he was wearing B&G) i would like justin gilbert i would be tickled pink
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UxP6DWLk72A he is man crush for the moment

stillers4me
01-19-2014, 11:09 AM
We will do what we always do. Draft the best player available at a position of need.

Dwinsgames
01-19-2014, 11:22 AM
We will do what we always do. Draft the best player available at a position of need.


well maybe you see it that way , but we have been far from the BEST PLAYER part in many cases for years ....

maybe the best on their scale of measure but they have a broken scale often times

Steelerette
01-19-2014, 03:17 PM
Give me Clinton-Dix. In the second give me the biggest nastiest TE or WR left on the board. Spend the rest on defense!

Aussie_steeler
01-19-2014, 04:36 PM
This year over 100 underclassmen have declared for the draft. Two years ago that number was just over 50 and that was a record.

This draft is going to be deeper and harder to predict than ever before.

In most minds, value is going to lay with a few additional picks. One star player wont reload an ageing roster on D. This roster is lacking in quality depth beyond most positions.

San Francisco and St Louis are playing the Patriots game of loading up on draft picks to better manipulate your teams draft options.

The 49ers are only one or two pieces away from being truly dominant. Do they get that player at 28 - 32 or at 15? I would be trying all I can to broker a trade with a team that may have up to 13 picks.

Round 1, Pick 28 -32
Round 2, Pick 24 (Chiefs)
Round 2, Pick 28 -32
Round 3, Pick 13 (Titans)
Round 3, Pick 28 -32
Round 3, (Comp)
Round 4, Pick 28 -32
Round 5, Pick 28 -32
Round 6, Pick 28 -32
Round 7, Pick 27 (Saints)
Round 7, Pick 29 (Panthers)
Round 7, Pick 26 (Colts)
Round 7, Pick 28 - 32

Steeltreal
01-19-2014, 09:01 PM
1-28) Eric Ebron
2-24) Kyle Van Noy
2-28) Jack Mewhort
3-13)) Brandon Coleman
3-28) Craig Loston
3 comp) KaDeem Carey

thx for the picks, my Oh no Mock draft.

Psycho Ward 86
01-19-2014, 09:53 PM
all of these WR and CB rising up the draft boards seem to be sliding clinton dix down to us. Hope it happens.

Steeltreal
01-19-2014, 10:11 PM
Looks like the Niners 1 piece is QB

LLT
01-20-2014, 03:29 PM
We will do what we always do. Draft the best player available at a position of need.

Exactly...no way we pass on Darqueze Dennard in that scenerio.

Texasteel
01-20-2014, 06:15 PM
For some reason Steven Tuitt has been popping into my mind. If he and Dennard are both there, I'm not sure which one we would take.

LLT
01-20-2014, 06:52 PM
For some reason Steven Tuitt has been popping into my mind. If he and Dennard are both there, I'm not sure which one we would take.

Have you seen much of Jason Verrett the CB from TCU? I'm becoming very enamored with him and there is a part of me that wants to put him as my #2 CB on my board.

Dwinsgames
01-20-2014, 07:55 PM
Have you seen much of Jason Verrett the CB from TCU? I'm becoming very enamored with him and there is a part of me that wants to put him as my #2 CB on my board.


Verrett is a hell of a player , my only real knock on him is his size I think he will get pushed around at the next level , but on shear talent he is one of the best CB in this draft and for a lighter guy he does not make up for his size with speed and that may hurt him , rumor is he weighs in soak n wet at 175 and will probably run a 4.5

Texasteel
01-20-2014, 08:10 PM
Have you seen much of Jason Verrett the CB from TCU? I'm becoming very enamored with him and there is a part of me that wants to put him as my #2 CB on my board.


To be honest, I have not watch much TCU since I left Dallas, none at all this year. I have read a few things on him and, it seems that he has become the forgotten man this year for some reason. It seem this happens to a player or two each year. What I think I know, is that he is a capable CB that is known for his fluid movement, and reaction to the ball. Everything I have read claims that he has very good ball skills. Maybe one of those players that when his name is called everyone says, " Gee, I forgot about him." To tell you the truth I have been avoiding mentioning his name, you know how my luck has been going when I start talking about a player. He is one that I what to watch some video, not high lights of, and see what he does in the combines. Thats where he will show if he can get his hips opened up and brake to the ball as well as I have been reading. I also want to get a better read on his quickness, not necessarily his speed. I have also read that he is good in run support and that is important in our defense.

One more interesting thing is that CBs have moved up, and some down in the draft rating. He looks to stayed in about the same place.

Tuitt is another kid I want to watch from here forward. I think his down year is due to his hernia surgery, and that he just never completely recovered, does that sound familiar. He was starting to play better at the end of the year, and may show us something from here on. He may move up, I hope Verrett doesn't.

Dwinsgames
01-20-2014, 08:10 PM
Roby is another guy who deserves a look IMO , he has the size we Like 5'11" 195 and should run around 4.4 ( one of the faster CB's of the upper tier guys ) and has shown to have decent ( not great but decent ) hands when the opportunity arises ...

plenty of starter exp ... 36 games played at OSU 179 tackles so does not fear contact as some cover guys do 36 pass breakups and 8 picks

Texasteel
01-20-2014, 08:15 PM
Verrett is a hell of a player , my only real knock on him is his size I think he will get pushed around at the next level , but on shear talent he is one of the best CB in this draft and for a lighter guy he does not make up for his size with speed and that may hurt him , rumor is he weighs in soak n wet at 175 and will probably run a 4.5

175 is that I have been hearing. I think he best 40 time is 4.48.

Texasteel
01-20-2014, 08:18 PM
Roby is another guy who deserves a look IMO , he has the size we Like 5'11" 195 and should run around 4.4 ( one of the faster CB's of the upper tier guys ) and has shown to have decent ( not great but decent ) hands when the opportunity arises ...

plenty of starter exp ... 36 games played at OSU 179 tackles so does not fear contact as some cover guys do 36 pass breakups and 8 picks

Don't take this as hard fact, because I can't remember where I saw it, but I have heard there may be a bit of an attitude problem there.

LLT
01-20-2014, 08:39 PM
Don't take this as hard fact, because I can't remember where I saw it, but I have heard there may be a bit of an attitude problem there.

He started a fight at a bar last July...then punched the bouncer who tried to break it up. He was also ejected from the Iowa game for "targeting".

Dwinsgames
01-20-2014, 08:41 PM
Don't take this as hard fact, because I can't remember where I saw it, but I have heard there may be a bit of an attitude problem there.

well that and a slow start to the season will make your stock fall in a hurry but he was elite last year , very athletic and a guy who will fight for the football .....

Texasteel
01-20-2014, 08:52 PM
There are about 6 CBs that are the reason I have been a little down on taking a CB early in the 1st round. He would probably fit in there some place.

TMC
01-23-2014, 07:22 AM
a 3 spot trade back from 15 to 18 is essentially a 3rd round selection in terms of value http://www.draftcountdown.com/features/Value-Chart.php


You do realize that the value chart they use is not quite right. It appears they took one and made some adjustments to change it, but the original it was based upon had two mistakes. The two errors are in spots 19 to 21 and 33 to 34. If you look at pick 20, it costs you a middle 6th rounder to move up to 19. But, if you are at pick 21, it costs you a late 4th to move up to pick 20. Why would it cost more to move up from 21 to 20 than it does from 20 to 19. The same is true for 32-33-34. It costs twice as much to move from 34 to 33 than it does from 33 to 32.

And, just for some background, while sites may list these things as being from NFL teams, they truly are not. To my knowledge, the NFL teams that use these charts have not turned them over to anyone in the press. The information came from a news article on Jimmie Johnson. Of the 256 slots in the draft, the article touched on only 10 of the numbers associated with the draft chart. Some draftnik over at footballcorner.bizland.com (later just footballcorner.com) took those 10 numbers and built an Excel spreadsheet, plugged them in, and attempted to reverse engineer the draft chart. This was in the early 90s. When the draft site folded, he allowed access of his chart to a few other websites and it spread like wildfire. To keep from completely copying it, some made some changes on a few of the numbers, but if you see the two mistakes listed, it was based off the initial flawed chart where he made two mistakes. Here is the original .gif:
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y112/TMC4REAL/DraftValueChart_zps2efcabe2.jpg

Kind of crazy how this thing has just become accepted as an NFL chart when only 10 numbers are actually off Jimmy Johnson's chart. Just thought I would throw this out.

Dwinsgames
01-23-2014, 07:51 AM
You do realize that the value chart they use is not quite right. It appears they took one and made some adjustments to change it, but the original it was based upon had two mistakes. The two errors are in spots 19 to 21 and 33 to 34. If you look at pick 20, it costs you a middle 6th rounder to move up to 19. But, if you are at pick 21, it costs you a late 4th to move up to pick 20. Why would it cost more to move up from 21 to 20 than it does from 20 to 19. The same is true for 32-33-34. It costs twice as much to move from 34 to 33 than it does from 33 to 32.

And, just for some background, while sites may list these things as being from NFL teams, they truly are not. To my knowledge, the NFL teams that use these charts have not turned them over to anyone in the press. The information came from a news article on Jimmie Johnson. Of the 256 slots in the draft, the article touched on only 10 of the numbers associated with the draft chart. Some draftnik over at footballcorner.bizland.com (later just footballcorner.com) took those 10 numbers and built an Excel spreadsheet, plugged them in, and attempted to reverse engineer the draft chart. This was in the early 90s. When the draft site folded, he allowed access of his chart to a few other websites and it spread like wildfire. To keep from completely copying it, some made some changes on a few of the numbers, but if you see the two mistakes listed, it was based off the initial flawed chart where he made two mistakes. Here is the original .gif:
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y112/TMC4REAL/DraftValueChart_zps2efcabe2.jpg

Kind of crazy how this thing has just become accepted as an NFL chart when only 10 numbers are actually off Jimmy Johnson's chart. Just thought I would throw this out.


did not notice those imperfections as they where not pertinent in what I was doing , as for " being set in stone accurate " nothing is on draft day , its what can you do that works ... just a general rule of thumb to gather and idea of what it may bring in terms of value

TMC
01-23-2014, 08:27 AM
Let me also add this, I have touched on why I do not think any WR is worthy of the 15 overall pick in the other thread. I would not draft one inside the top 25. As for tight ends, I would not select one in the first round.

Ebron is very athletic. I have seen comparisons to Vernon Davis, but I think that is way over the top. Davis is an elite athlete, not just an elite TE, but compared to most guys, his numbers are eye popping. Ebron may be an elite TE (athletically). I think he runs 4.55-4.60, but Vernon Davis ran a 4.38 with a vertical over 40" and 33 reps on the bench. If Ebron comes close to that, he won't be around long off potential alone. I just do not think he gets there. The Steelers are not a team that splits their TE out a lot. They do, but they like to run with an inline TE in a lot of sets. Ebron is not a great blocker. He battles, but he has poor form and lacks power. He gets over his feet and can get yanked off balance. Once the defensive player pulls him and sheds a time or two, Ebron counters and sits back, becoming vulnerable to power. He has a long ways to go as a blocker. At this point, he should be viewed as a big WR.

Jace Amaro may be worse. He is rarely inline and not physical as a blocker. Good receiver (not as good as Ebron). Meh, not sure I want that early.

Austin Seferian-Jenkins is a good blocker, limited athlete, not much as a receiver. He really underperformed this season. I just do not know if he has the overall athleticism to be a dominant TE. For his size, he could be more powerful at the point. He lacks vertical speed. He also has a recent DUI. Dunno. Lots of questions with ASJ.

Of those 3, for the Steelers scheme and how they use TEs, ASJ appears to fit them the best, but again, I question whether I would spend a higher pick on any of them.

Troy Niklas is probably the best blocking TE in this class. He is a big dude, long legs, long arms, and just put together well. He is a former linebacker that moved over because he showed some promise on the offensive side of the ball. Good athlete. I think he runs better than his listed time of 4.8. Now, he is not going to get under 4.6, but I think he can run in the 4.7 range. He is physical and not afraid of contact. Just moved over to TE, so he is still developing, but may be the best cost/potential TE in the draft.