Offense passes inspection, not defense

[Psycho Ward 86]

ART ROONEY II ON THE STATE OF THE STEELERS

Even though the Steelers have strung together 8-8 seasons and not made the playoffs two seasons in a row for the first time in the past 13 years, apparently there is 8-8 and then there is 8-8.

One year ago, Steelers president Art Rooney II expressed frustration with an 8-8 record that included five losses in the final seven games.

Wednesday, Rooney talked about his excitement for the 2014 season and how coach Mike Tomlin did a "very good job" as the Steelers went 6-2 in the second half of the season to finish 8-8 again.

"I certainly liked the way we finished," Rooney said in a 20-minute interview. "We, as far as I'm concerned, should be in the playoffs. The other side of it is we made our bed, unfortunately got off to a slow start. But I like the way we finished, I like the fact we got better as the season goes on, which is what you want. You want a team that's playing its best at the end, and I think, for the most part, that's what we did.

"It leaves me excited for next year already. We're looking forward to getting started and prepared for next year."

Read more: http://www.post-gazette.com/sports/2014/01/09/Offense-passes-inspection-not-defense/stories/2014010902180000000#ixzz2psPQ2hXM

[blackngldblood]

Wouldn't it be awesome if we could have a dominating offense AND defense with good special teams to boot? Oh well, such is life in the NFL....


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk (http://tapatalk.com/m?id=1)

[Psycho Ward 86]

Wouldn't it be awesome if we could have a dominating offense AND defense with good special teams to boot? Oh well, such is life in the NFL....


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk (http://tapatalk.com/m?id=1)

seahawks.


oops, i mean adderall.

[Spike]

Steelers will have..... 21 of their players due to become unrestricted free agents on March 11

that many?

[Psycho Ward 86]

Steelers will have..... 21 of their players due to become unrestricted free agents on March 11

that many?

only ones that matter are jason worilds, jerricho cotchery, cody wallace, fernando velasco, al woods, and maybe will allen.

[fansince'76]

seahawks.


oops, i mean adderall.

Let's see how well they keep it together when all those young players become due for a second contract...

[MrPgh]

Did Dan Rooney ever speak this much about football operations? And some people wonder why Art II is considered meddling.

[Dwinsgames]

Did Dan Rooney ever speak this much about football operations? And some people wonder why Art II is considered meddling.

he owns the freaking team get over it already ....

clearly the media wanted to hear from him or they would not have showed up ....

clearly the people wanted to hear what he had to say or nobody would have watched or read it .....

and clearly you wanted to know what was said because you clicked the damn link and read the thread ....

go crawl under the rock you came from its 2014 not 1954 and you claim other people are behind the times

you got a hard on for everything written about Art II and never have a bit to say about him without being condescending what did he do refuse to give you an autograph or something

so just go cheer for the browns

[MrPgh]

he owns the freaking team get over it already ....

clearly the media wanted to hear from him or they would not have showed up ....

clearly the people wanted to hear what he had to say or nobody would have watched or read it .....

and clearly you wanted to know what was said because you clicked the damn link and read the thread ....

go crawl under the rock you came from its 2014 not 1954 and you claim other people are behind the times

you got a hard on for everything written about Art II and never have a bit to say about him without being condescending what did he do refuse to give you an autograph or something

so just go cheer for the browns

Yup, our media that always grills Art II like he's a prisoner at Guantanamo Bay and never asks him any softball questions what-so-ever. ART II IS SO BRAVE! :chuckle:

[Hawkman]

Did Dan Rooney ever speak this much about football operations? And some people wonder why Art II is considered meddling.

He ALWAYS does a post season "state of the team" interview!

[MrPgh]

He ALWAYS does a post season "state of the team" interview!

Shouldn't someone who is a football mind do that? Art II might be Dan's son, but football acumen isn't genetically passed on from generation to generation. Kevin Colbert is the GM, perhaps it would be much more appropriate for him to do that.

[Dwinsgames]

Shouldn't someone who is a football mind do that? Art II might be Dan's son, but football acumen isn't genetically passed on from generation to generation. Kevin Colbert is the GM, perhaps it would be much more appropriate for him to do that.

He is the man in charge , the way I see it he can do whatever the hell he wants whether you like it or not ....

you do not get to chose how the organization runs things unless you have roughly a billion dollars laying around someplace with nothing better to do with than buy the Rooney's out with ...

until such time deal with how things are done or take your fandom elsewhere because it is NOT for you to decide protocol ...

and how is it exactly you know what football acumen anyone has , my guess is he forgot more about running an organization than you or I have ever learned

[MrPgh]

He is the man in charge , the way I see it he can do whatever the hell he wants whether you like it or not ....

you do not get to chose how the organization runs things unless you have roughly a billion dollars laying around someplace with nothing better to do with than buy the Rooney's out with ...

until such time deal with how things are done or take your fandom elsewhere because it is NOT for you to decide protocol ...

and how is it exactly you know what football acumen anyone has , my guess is he forgot more about running an organization than you or I have ever learned

Too bad he isn't more like his father. Dan would actually put his ego aside.

[Psycho Ward 86]

Too bad he isn't more like his father. Dan would actually put his ego aside.

Talking about the state of the team that you own means you have an ego? Well. Ok then.

[MrPgh]

Talking about the state of the team that you own means you have an ego? Well. Ok then.

No, but trying to put Ben in his place when Haley was brought it was.

Why isn't Kevin Colbert talking about the state of the team? Specifically, the state of the offense and defense. He is the GM after all, shouldn't that be his job since that's why most owners hire GMs? Might be one reason Dan never interfered this much. Sure Art II has the right to do it, just like Jerry Jones has the right to do the same thing with the Cowboys. Doesn't mean it's what's best for the team.

[Psycho Ward 86]

No, but trying to put Ben in his place when Haley was brought it was.

Why isn't Kevin Colbert talking about the state of the team? Specifically, the state of the offense and defense. He is the GM after all, shouldn't that be his job since that's why most owners hire GMs? Might be one reason Dan never interfered this much. Sure Art II has the right to do it, just like Jerry Jones has the right to do the same thing with the Cowboys. Doesn't mean it's what's best for the team.

So you are saying Ben should have been putting Haley, his offensive coordinator, in his place? Even Peyton Manning has been known to look up to Tom Moore during his career with the colts, and he is probably the most cerebral player to ever play the game (even if he isnt the most clutch). Why would you even want Ben slinging vertical routes to infinity like he did when Arians was around? Have you even watched any games the past 2 seasons? Ben's deep ball accuracy is pretty horrible. Hell, his deep ball accuracy was probably at its best his 1st 2 years in the league when coincidentally, we had one of the best run games in the NFL.

And to the jerry jones comment. Jerry Jones isnt just the owner of the cowboys. He's the GM. lol...you are going to be hard pressed to find one clear cut example of Art being the kind of control freak jerry jones is.

[X-Terminator]

In MrPgh's defense, I don't remember Dan giving "state of the team" interviews as often as Art has. I understand we're talking about 2 different personalities here, but many of us have gotten used to the "silent owner" situation that Art speaking out so much is different, and to me a little disconcerting. I'd rather him stay behind the scenes and let the football guys handle such things.

And I am still absolutely convinced that Todd Haley was Art's hire and not Tomlin's, in order to "rein in" Ben.

[Mojouw]

Almost every owner for every NFL franchise give a press conference with their take on the state of the team shortly after each franchise's respective elimination from the playoffs or after the regular season ends.

This is typically when it is confirmed that head coaches, GMs, and other highly placed team personnel are safe for the next season.

GM's then give a series of interviews around the combine, pre draft, and post-draft that address the state of specific units on either side of the ball.

This is almost standard operating procedure for every NFL franchise.

Those looking for reasons to ding Art II will have to look elsewhere.

[X-Terminator]

Almost every owner for every NFL franchise give a press conference with their take on the state of the team shortly after each franchise's respective elimination from the playoffs or after the regular season ends.

This is typically when it is confirmed that head coaches, GMs, and other highly placed team personnel are safe for the next season.

GM's then give a series of interviews around the combine, pre draft, and post-draft that address the state of specific units on either side of the ball.

This is almost standard operating procedure for every NFL franchise.

Those looking for reasons to ding Art II will have to look elsewhere.

Yes, but the point was we were NOT like other teams until Dan passed the torch to Art. Dan made it a point to stay behind the scenes and allow the football guys to run the team, and that was one of the things we all loved and respected about him. Before anyone says it, YES, I realize that it's Art's team and he can speak out whenever he wants. But it's still unsettling to me and others and gives off an aura of meddling. Seems most fans are OK with that, and that's fine...I'm just not comfortable with it. It's nothing like Jerry Jones or Daniel Snyder, though, and I strongly disagree with any comparisons to them.

[MrPgh]

Yes, but the point was we were NOT like other teams until Dan passed the torch to Art. Dan made it a point to stay behind the scenes and allow the football guys to run the team, and that was one of the things we all loved and respected about him. Before anyone says it, YES, I realize that it's Art's team and he can speak out whenever he wants. But it's still unsettling to me and others and gives off an aura of meddling. Seems most fans are OK with that, and that's fine...I'm just not comfortable with it. It's nothing like Jerry Jones or Daniel Snyder, though, and I strongly disagree with any comparisons to them.

Also consider Dan never talked about run/pass ratio or anything specific to actual tactics of how the Steelers played. He left that to the GMs and coaches, something Art II needs to learn to do.

[Mojouw]

And Dan ran the team until the early 2000's right? Anything else happen around then with the NFL? Oh. Wait. That was when the media coverage of the NFL literally exploded. Do you think that Art II was like, you know what I want to do a whole bunch...get in front of cameras and hold press conferences. Or do you think that there are more people than him in charge of managing the communications coming from the team? Perhaps some of these terrifying and disconcerting changes (and I realize they are seismic shifts) are in response to the changing media situation over the past decade? No. That would require the dispassionate application of logic and reason rather than grumpiness.

[Dwinsgames]

Also consider Dan never talked about run/pass ratio or anything specific to actual tactics of how the Steelers played. He left that to the GMs and coaches, something Art II needs to learn to do.

and neither did art ... read the son of a bitching articles / have them interpreted for you by someone literate enough to understand what they read instead of listening to mark madden , I even posted them here for you before the direct quotes from Art II but nooooooo your bullshit keep spewing all the same ....

I mean why the hell should you let FACTS get in the way of your horseshit ...

[Count Steeler]

I admire the passion D, but get a grip. Is it really worth blowing a fuse?

[Dwinsgames]

I admire the passion D, but get a grip. Is it really worth blowing a fuse?


You are right ....

[MrPgh]

And Dan ran the team until the early 2000's right? Anything else happen around then with the NFL? Oh. Wait. That was when the media coverage of the NFL literally exploded. Do you think that Art II was like, you know what I want to do a whole bunch...get in front of cameras and hold press conferences. Or do you think that there are more people than him in charge of managing the communications coming from the team? Perhaps some of these terrifying and disconcerting changes (and I realize they are seismic shifts) are in response to the changing media situation over the past decade? No. That would require the dispassionate application of logic and reason rather than grumpiness.

That never stopped Jerry and Al. :lol: I'm sure if Art II wanted he could defer to Colbert and Tomlin when talking about football operations and the media would be fine with it.


and neither did art ... read the son of a bitching articles / have them interpreted for you by someone literate enough to understand what they read instead of listening to mark madden , I even posted them here for you before the direct quotes from Art II but nooooooo your bullshit keep spewing all the same ....

I did read the articles. I also saw this offense for the first season and a half of Haley's time here as OC. Not hard to connect the dots.

[Mojouw]

That never stopped Jerry and Al. :lol: I'm sure if Art II wanted he could defer to Colbert and Tomlin when talking about football operations and the media would be fine with it.

And Jerry and Al also served as the their team's GM either in actual title or in a de facto situation because of craziness. While there are many criticisms that can be leveled at the current Steelers brain trust, the need to meddle or get in front of microphones/cameras too often is simply not one of them. I am done debating the issue with you, as you continue to beat the drum for this line of attack in the face of all reason and factual evidence to the contrary. If you want to continue to equate the recent struggles of this organization with the "meddling" of Art II rather than any of the real substantive problems this team is facing in roster construction, scheme, and future personnel decisions then by all means; proceed. I, and anyone else with two brain cells that still function (I, myself, am down to only about 3 dozen that kind of work...sorta like an old string of Christmas lights) will do our best to ignore your vaguely coherent rantings and ravings.


I did read the articles. I also saw this offense for the first season and a half of Haley's time here as OC. Not hard to connect the dots.

I would suggest you review the concepts of "correlation" and "causation" with the associated idea that the two are not always related.

No Rooney asked for a return to running the ball more simply for the sake of running it more. While members of the family do look old enough that they would prefer to be consistently wrapped in a warm blanket made of memories of Steeler power running attacks of yore...this was never asked for of Haley or any other member of the coaching staff. Haley was brought in with a mandate to get the 100+ million dollar franchise QB hit less (a LOT less by all accounts), and run the ball more effectively. That is efficiently and when needed (short yardage, sub 4 minute game preserving offense, etc) not simply MORE frequently. His offensive scheme was an attempt to do that. Get the ball out quickly to the skill players and run and pass out of the same (or at least similar looking) formations. This was a massive departure from Arians. Even watching on TV, a casual fan could guess the play Arians had in mind (run or pass) based on formation and the players in the game. Additionally, Ben and Arians preferred a deep, vertical passing attack that took a long time to develop and played a significant part in getting the franchise walloped game in and game out.

I do not consider the use of the "no-huddle" offense as a fundamental departure from these "Haley" offensive priorities. One could argue that last season (2012) when the Steelers went hurry-up/no huddle it looked like Ben was often calling plays from the Arians play-book. That is not the case anymore. I think the reliance on the no-huddle this season (2013)was out of a combination of desperation, solidification of the o-line to the point that not huddling was possible, Bell getting adjusted to the NFL and healthy, the increased health of Heath Miller, and the simple acknowledgement that Ben has always been better running plays at a faster pace.

How that all turns in to Art II is meddlesome, Haley is a terrible co-ordinator (the same thing was said about Arians when Ben went no huddle while he was here), and everyone needs fired...I just don't know and am done trying to figure it out.

[MrPgh]

And Jerry and Al also served as the their team's GM either in actual title or in a de facto situation because of craziness. While there are many criticisms that can be leveled at the current Steelers brain trust, the need to meddle or get in front of microphones/cameras too often is simply not one of them. I am done debating the issue with you, as you continue to beat the drum for this line of attack in the face of all reason and factual evidence to the contrary. If you want to continue to equate the recent struggles of this organization with the "meddling" of Art II rather than any of the real substantive problems this team is facing in roster construction, scheme, and future personnel decisions then by all means; proceed. I, and anyone else with two brain cells that still function (I, myself, am down to only about 3 dozen that kind of work...sorta like an old string of Christmas lights) will do our best to ignore your vaguely coherent rantings and ravings.

I actually have made several posts on this forum about what I think the team needs to do to get better. If you missed those posts, then I can't help you there. As for Art II, if you don't like hearing him get criticized I'm sorry, but some of us believe he is part of the problem. Another poster on this board called him "the elephant in the room."




I would suggest you review the concepts of "correlation" and "causation" with the associated idea that the two are not always related.

No Rooney asked for a return to running the ball more simply for the sake of running it more. While members of the family do look old enough that they would prefer to be consistently wrapped in a warm blanket made of memories of Steeler power running attacks of yore...this was never asked for of Haley or any other member of the coaching staff. Haley was brought in with a mandate to get the 100+ million dollar franchise QB hit less (a LOT less by all accounts), and run the ball more effectively. That is efficiently and when needed (short yardage, sub 4 minute game preserving offense, etc) not simply MORE frequently. His offensive scheme was an attempt to do that. Get the ball out quickly to the skill players and run and pass out of the same (or at least similar looking) formations.

This is where you really need to learn what the eye-test is. Haley was brought in to protect Ben? Then why was he still getting hit a lot? Haley was not asked to run the ball more or minimize Ben's role in the offense? Then why were the Steelers pounding their heads against a wall doing such things before they were down multiple possessions?

It's not about what the stat sheet says, it's not even what said in the media, it's about what we're watching. This offense never passed the eye test until about mid-way through the season.


This was a massive departure from Arians. Even watching on TV, a casual fan could guess the play Arians had in mind (run or pass) based on formation and the players in the game.

And the Haley offense was never predictable? Casual fans could tell there was a bubble screen or a run up the middle with Haley as long as the score wasn't out of hand.


Additionally, Ben and Arians preferred a deep, vertical passing attack that took a long time to develop and played a significant part in getting the franchise walloped game in and game out.

The franchise got "walloped" all the way into the playoffs. You're acting as if the Steelers have been better and not worse since Haley came in.




I do not consider the use of the "no-huddle" offense as a fundamental departure from these "Haley" offensive priorities. One could argue that last season (2012) when the Steelers went hurry-up/no huddle it looked like Ben was often calling plays from the Arians play-book. That is not the case anymore. I think the reliance on the no-huddle this season (2013)was out of a combination of desperation, solidification of the o-line to the point that not huddling was possible, Bell getting adjusted to the NFL and healthy, the increased health of Heath Miller, and the simple acknowledgement that Ben has always been better running plays at a faster pace.

So if it wasn't a large departure from the Haley offense why didn't they do it earlier in the season? Of course the few times the Steelers did run the no-huddle in 2012 it was generally more effective than when Haley was calling the plays as they actually scored a lot of points at the end of the half that season. Wouldn't you like to know why Haley didn't make the "simple acknowledgement" that Ben was better at running no-huddle earlier? Perhaps it's because it was intended that the offense would look different with Ben "reigned in," and that completely blew up in the Steelers' face.


How that all turns in to Art II is meddlesome, Haley is a terrible co-ordinator (the same thing was said about Arians when Ben went no huddle while he was here), and everyone needs fired...I just don't know and am done trying to figure it out.

It's actually not hard to connect the dots. Haley was brought in for a reason, and that reason completely backfired on the Steelers. When they finally realized they were wrong, it was too late and they simply weren't good enough of a team to make up for it.

[Mojouw]

In the above post, the "franchise" was a reference to the aforementioned 100+ million dollar QB. I do acknowledge that I used a confusing phrasing there. Apologies.

As for the rest of it, my only response...is can't fix stupid.

Easily available facts -- http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/R/RoetBe00.htm

See the Sack % column (Sk%) that demonstrates that Roethlisberger got sacked at a lesser rate during Haley's 2 years to date as the OC. I do not have time to find hits and knockdowns right now. But, as I previously state, I realize that facts, logic, and reason have no place in an internet discussion board.

[MrPgh]

In the above post, the "franchise" was a reference to the aforementioned 100+ million dollar QB. I do acknowledge that I used a confusing phrasing there. Apologies.

As for the rest of it, my only response...is can't fix stupid.

Easily available facts -- http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/R/RoetBe00.htm

See the Sack % column (Sk%) that demonstrates that Roethlisberger got sacked at a lesser rate during Haley's 2 years to date as the OC. I do not have time to find hits and knockdowns right now. But, as I previously state, I realize that facts, logic, and reason have no place in an internet discussion board.

Now, as I've previously stated on other threads, this is where stats get thrown out with no substance. The sack number was down in 2012 because Ben missed three games plus the second half of the KC game he got injured in. Funny how no one wants to talk about that. Is it because it doesn't fit the narrative that "Haley has kept Ben healthy!"? Also, Ben was getting sacked like crazy in the first half of the season. It wasn't until a change of LT and the offense going no-huddle more often to prevent defenses from substituting into more advantageous packages that Ben's sack numbers went down.

There's stats, and then there's putting stats into context. If you don't like that and would prefer to call me stupid as your only retort, go ahead and do so if that makes you feel better about yourself.

[Mojouw]

Now, as I've previously stated on other threads, this is where stats get thrown out with no substance. The sack number was down in 2012 because Ben missed three games plus the second half of the KC game he got injured in. Funny how no one wants to talk about that. Is it because it doesn't fit the narrative that "Haley has kept Ben healthy!"? Also, Ben was getting sacked like crazy in the first half of the season. It wasn't until a change of LT and the offense going no-huddle more often to prevent defenses from substituting into more advantageous packages that Ben's sack numbers went down.

There's stats, and then there's putting stats into context. If you don't like that and would prefer to call me stupid as your only retort, go ahead and do so if that makes you feel better about yourself.

Dude, the stat was a rate statistic. The number of games played doesn't change things. Since the statistic is a ratio it has a built in control for games played, etc. That is why I selected that proxy measure of how much or how little Ben was getting hit than one that would have been more closely tied to games played. Which is really snaps played more than anything else, but that is another story...

Like I said...some things you can not fix

[X-Terminator]

Now, as I've previously stated on other threads, this is where stats get thrown out with no substance. The sack number was down in 2012 because Ben missed three games plus the second half of the KC game he got injured in. Funny how no one wants to talk about that. Is it because it doesn't fit the narrative that "Haley has kept Ben healthy!"? Also, Ben was getting sacked like crazy in the first half of the season. It wasn't until a change of LT and the offense going no-huddle more often to prevent defenses from substituting into more advantageous packages that Ben's sack numbers went down.

There's stats, and then there's putting stats into context. If you don't like that and would prefer to call me stupid as your only retort, go ahead and do so if that makes you feel better about yourself.

Well, considering that Ben played all 16 games for the first time in 5 years, I'd say Haley did his job in that regard. Credit where credit is due. However, as you said, it took him finally waking up from his slumber and using more no-huddle for that to happen, because based on the first 8 games of the season, he was looking at 50 sacks again.

[fansince'76]

However, as you said, it took him finally waking up from his slumber and using more no-huddle for that to happen, because based on the first 8 games of the season, he was looking at 50 sacks again.

No, he was actually looking at 70+ sacks. He was sacked 36 times through 8 games. Only Tannehill was sacked more at that point of the season. We're talking a David-Carr-rookie-year-career-ruining number of sacks. It was insane.

[MrPgh]

Well, considering that Ben played all 16 games for the first time in 5 years, I'd say Haley did his job in that regard. Credit where credit is due. However, as you said, it took him finally waking up from his slumber and using more no-huddle for that to happen, because based on the first 8 games of the season, he was looking at 50 sacks again.

That's my point though. In 2012 Ben got knocked out for three games. Hardly keeping him safe. At the start of 2013, it didn't look like Ben was going to last long. Did Haley finally wise up? Seems so, but it took him too long to finally realize what makes this offense function properly and keep its QB upright. Haley shouldn't be let off the hook for that.

I just don't understand why certain people act like there's been this big improvement when in the last two years the Steelers have gone 16-16 with no playoffs.

[Mojouw]

That's my point though. In 2012 Ben got knocked out for three games. Hardly keeping him safe. At the start of 2013, it didn't look like Ben was going to last long. Did Haley finally wise up? Seems so, but it took him too long to finally realize what makes this offense function properly and keep its QB upright. Haley shouldn't be let off the hook for that.

I just don't understand why certain people act like there's been this big improvement when in the last two years the Steelers have gone 16-16 with no playoffs.

Because there has been some improvement. Like I previously said, and was ignored, I am talking about the rate at which the QB was sacked. Sacks per dropbacks basically, not the raw # of sacks. This takes the games played issue off the table for a moment. Looking at the #'s (from http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/R/RoetBe00.htm):

Arians tenure as OC was 2007-2011. In that time period the Sack % ranged from a low of 7.2% to a high of 10.4%.

Haley has had two seasons as offensive boss and the sack rate has been 6.3% and 6.7% respectively. This is a drop. For some reason (we can get there in a bit) Haley's offense has the QB getting sacked in noticeably lower percentage of his drop-backs. You may also notice that all of the yards per attempt and yards per completion stats are slightly lower in Haley's offense. Thus there is evidence for a correlation between the QB getting hit less and all those damn bubble screens.

If you examine the "advanced passing" stats there is a column for "Sack%+". Not really sure about the math behind it, but 100 is league average and the higher the # is better. The two highest #'s in the franchise QB's career have been under Haley's time as OC.

Now, there is the issue of the "eyeball" test. Well last year (2012) Roethlisberger played all but 3 games and in my opinion the injury was more a "fluke" than a result of his taking a battering. He did get slammed on the specific play, but what are the chances he breaks that way consistently? Up to that point he had been relatively healthy and seemed to have less of the nagging injuries that had characterized past seasons. In 2013, he played in all the games. However, as was mentioned, through half the season, he was getting hit at a historic rate. Now, we can believe that Haley stubbornly refused to go to the no-huddle for all those weeks because he is either arrogant, likes to see Ben get hit, or both. Or we can look at other factors.

Such as the LT situation had not yet been stabilized. Likely a poor idea to go no-huddle when you are rotating crap on the blindside.

The center, who in most NFL lines makes a great deal of the blocking calls, was brand-new to the team. Likely a poor idea to go no-huddle when the man in the middle of the line barely knows the play-book.

Bell was either out or still adjusting to being on the field during the first half of the season. I do not consider it a coincidence that once Bell got adjusted to the NFL, the team broke out the no-huddle.

Miller was hurt early in the season as well. May help to have the best safety valve and non-offensive lineman blocker on the field before you put your QB behind a leaky o-line in the hurry-up.

To review, the #'s document that per dropback (not # of games) Roethlisberger is getting hit less in an offense that throws shorter passes.

The no-huddle was likely delayed in its roll-out due to the need to stablize a leaky injury plagued offensive line and to get two critical pass blockers (Bell and Miller) back on the field before the coaches felt they could risk the franchise QB any more than they already were.

For the record, I am no big fan of Haley and was a defender of Arians (at least more than others) while he was here. But to continue to distort the facts serves no purpose either.

[Dwinsgames]

Because there has been some improvement. Like I previously said, and was ignored, I am talking about the rate at which the QB was sacked. Sacks per dropbacks basically, not the raw # of sacks. This takes the games played issue off the table for a moment. Looking at the #'s (from http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/R/RoetBe00.htm):

Arians tenure as OC was 2007-2011. In that time period the Sack % ranged from a low of 7.2% to a high of 10.4%.

Haley has had two seasons as offensive boss and the sack rate has been 6.3% and 6.7% respectively. This is a drop. For some reason (we can get there in a bit) Haley's offense has the QB getting sacked in noticeably lower percentage of his drop-backs. You may also notice that all of the yards per attempt and yards per completion stats are slightly lower in Haley's offense. Thus there is evidence for a correlation between the QB getting hit less and all those damn bubble screens.

If you examine the "advanced passing" stats there is a column for "Sack%+". Not really sure about the math behind it, but 100 is league average and the higher the # is better. The two highest #'s in the franchise QB's career have been under Haley's time as OC.

Now, there is the issue of the "eyeball" test. Well last year (2012) Roethlisberger played all but 3 games and in my opinion the injury was more a "fluke" than a result of his taking a battering. He did get slammed on the specific play, but what are the chances he breaks that way consistently? Up to that point he had been relatively healthy and seemed to have less of the nagging injuries that had characterized past seasons. In 2013, he played in all the games. However, as was mentioned, through half the season, he was getting hit at a historic rate. Now, we can believe that Haley stubbornly refused to go to the no-huddle for all those weeks because he is either arrogant, likes to see Ben get hit, or both. Or we can look at other factors.

Such as the LT situation had not yet been stabilized. Likely a poor idea to go no-huddle when you are rotating crap on the blindside.

The center, who in most NFL lines makes a great deal of the blocking calls, was brand-new to the team. Likely a poor idea to go no-huddle when the man in the middle of the line barely knows the play-book.

Bell was either out or still adjusting to being on the field during the first half of the season. I do not consider it a coincidence that once Bell got adjusted to the NFL, the team broke out the no-huddle.

Miller was hurt early in the season as well. May help to have the best safety valve and non-offensive lineman blocker on the field before you put your QB behind a leaky o-line in the hurry-up.

To review, the #'s document that per dropback (not # of games) Roethlisberger is getting hit less in an offense that throws shorter passes.

The no-huddle was likely delayed in its roll-out due to the need to stablize a leaky injury plagued offensive line and to get two critical pass blockers (Bell and Miller) back on the field before the coaches felt they could risk the franchise QB any more than they already were.

For the record, I am no big fan of Haley and was a defender of Arians (at least more than others) while he was here. But to continue to distort the facts serves no purpose either.

this was great for anyone wanting to learn something , but useless to anyone who has their mind made up and would rather spew garbage than be factual ...

some people need to be reminded that football is a collision sport and no matter what steps you take to try an insure someones health and well being it only takes 1 collision to ruin all your efforts , that is not saying that you should not do everything in your power to limit those as much as humanly possible and still play the game

good post

[X-Terminator]

Because there has been some improvement. Like I previously said, and was ignored, I am talking about the rate at which the QB was sacked. Sacks per dropbacks basically, not the raw # of sacks. This takes the games played issue off the table for a moment. Looking at the #'s (from http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/R/RoetBe00.htm):

Arians tenure as OC was 2007-2011. In that time period the Sack % ranged from a low of 7.2% to a high of 10.4%.

Haley has had two seasons as offensive boss and the sack rate has been 6.3% and 6.7% respectively. This is a drop. For some reason (we can get there in a bit) Haley's offense has the QB getting sacked in noticeably lower percentage of his drop-backs. You may also notice that all of the yards per attempt and yards per completion stats are slightly lower in Haley's offense. Thus there is evidence for a correlation between the QB getting hit less and all those damn bubble screens.

If you examine the "advanced passing" stats there is a column for "Sack%+". Not really sure about the math behind it, but 100 is league average and the higher the # is better. The two highest #'s in the franchise QB's career have been under Haley's time as OC.

Now, there is the issue of the "eyeball" test. Well last year (2012) Roethlisberger played all but 3 games and in my opinion the injury was more a "fluke" than a result of his taking a battering. He did get slammed on the specific play, but what are the chances he breaks that way consistently? Up to that point he had been relatively healthy and seemed to have less of the nagging injuries that had characterized past seasons. In 2013, he played in all the games. However, as was mentioned, through half the season, he was getting hit at a historic rate. Now, we can believe that Haley stubbornly refused to go to the no-huddle for all those weeks because he is either arrogant, likes to see Ben get hit, or both. Or we can look at other factors.

Such as the LT situation had not yet been stabilized. Likely a poor idea to go no-huddle when you are rotating crap on the blindside.

The center, who in most NFL lines makes a great deal of the blocking calls, was brand-new to the team. Likely a poor idea to go no-huddle when the man in the middle of the line barely knows the play-book.

Bell was either out or still adjusting to being on the field during the first half of the season. I do not consider it a coincidence that once Bell got adjusted to the NFL, the team broke out the no-huddle.

Miller was hurt early in the season as well. May help to have the best safety valve and non-offensive lineman blocker on the field before you put your QB behind a leaky o-line in the hurry-up.

To review, the #'s document that per dropback (not # of games) Roethlisberger is getting hit less in an offense that throws shorter passes.

The no-huddle was likely delayed in its roll-out due to the need to stablize a leaky injury plagued offensive line and to get two critical pass blockers (Bell and Miller) back on the field before the coaches felt they could risk the franchise QB any more than they already were.

For the record, I am no big fan of Haley and was a defender of Arians (at least more than others) while he was here. But to continue to distort the facts serves no purpose either.

Well, can't argue with any of that. Well said.

[Shoes]

Good stuff Mojo!