this day in Pittsburgh Steeler history

[Dwinsgames]

On this day in 1947, the NFL draft is held at the Fort Pitt Hotel in Pittsburgh. The Steelers take end Dan Edwards with the 9th overall pick

[steelreserve]

Wow .. nice pick, considering he apparently never played a down for us. He also holds the NFL record for the shortest kickoff return for a touchdown, at 17 yards. I'd love to know how either of those things happened, but alas - nothing.

[Dwinsgames]

The draft needs to be a traveling circus , each year in a different NFL city

[st33lersguy]

I had no idea they used to hold the draft in December.

[GBMelBlount]

This is an odd thread.

Funny, but odd.

I think the traveling circus part makes sense.

It's already a circus so we just need more traveling.

[salamander]

The draft needs to be a traveling circus , each year in a different NFL city

That's what the NHL does. I think it'd be a good idea.

[Psycho Ward 86]

He also holds the NFL record for the shortest kickoff return for a touchdown, at 17 yards.

wtf are you serious? :lol:

[tihmtahm]

Wow .. nice pick, considering he apparently never played a down for us. He also holds the NFL record for the shortest kickoff return for a touchdown, at 17 yards. I'd love to know how either of those things happened, but alas - nothing.

I hate using Wiki as a reference... but this is just about all I could find on him... Maybe there's something in there that will help your search...

Daniel Moody Edwards (August 17, 1926 – August 7, 2001) was an Gridiron football (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gridiron_football) end (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/End_%28American_football%29) in the All-America Football Conference (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All-America_Football_Conference), Canadian Football League (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_Football_League), and the National Football League (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Football_League). He played college football (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/College_football) at Georgia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgia_Bulldogs_football). Drafted by the Pittsburgh Steelers (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pittsburgh_Steelers) in the 1st round (9th overall) of the 1948 NFL Draft (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1948_NFL_Draft), Edwards played for the AAFC's Brooklyn Dodgers (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brooklyn_Dodgers_%28AAFC%29) (1948) and Chicago Hornets (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicago_Hornets) (1949) and the NFL's New York Yanks (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_Yanks) (1950–1951), Dallas Texans (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dallas_Texans_%28NFL%29) (1952) and Baltimore Colts (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Indianapolis_Colts) (1953–1954). In 1950, he was selected for the Pro Bowl (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pro_Bowl) and First-Team All-Pro (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All-Pro). He holds the record for the shortest kick off return for a touchdown, 17 yards, set on October 17, 1949.
Following his playing career, Edwards spent four seasons as a coach with the BC Lions (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BC_Lions) and Edmonton Eskimos (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edmonton_Eskimos) before leaving football to become an oil executive.[1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dan_Edwards#cite_note-1)

[steelreserve]

wtf are you serious? :lol:

Yeah, I have no idea how that's possible either. The only thing I can think of is an onside kick attempt run back for a TD, after the starting point of the kickoff had already been backed up by a penalty. But even that wouldn't work, since up until the 1970s, kickoffs started from the 40-yard line, so even after a personal foul., you'd still be starting from the 25. Maybe if there were multiple penalties, but I think they only enforce one.

The only other thing I can think of is a safety followed by a penalty that made the kickoff start at the 10, then an onside kick run back for a TD. But since onside kicks aren't allowed after a safety, that doesn't make sense either. Maybe the rule was different then? Or maybe they tried an onside kick anyway, hoping that the other team would touch it first and it would count as a fumble? That's all I got.

[steelreserve]

Wait, I might have an answer that would work ... I think up until at least the '90s, on an onside kick attempt, if the ball went out of bounds before 10 yards, it was not automatic possession of the ball to the other team, it was a 5-yard penalty and re-kick.

I remember a famous playoff game between the Browns and Oilers in the late '80s where the Browns tried three onside kicks in a row; one went out of bounds for a 5-yard penalty, one was a do-over because the Oilers batted it out of bounds intentionally, and the last one either went out of bounds or didn't go 10 yards before being touched; I don't remember. I DO remember the ref coming out after that and saying something like "Ladies and gentlemen, we have a very unusual situation ..." and then went on to explain that after the third kick didn't go 10 yards, possession turned over.

So - if they normally started at the 40, then had a personal foul penalty that backed the kickoff up to the 25, and you were allowed two kicks to go out of bounds before the ball turned over on the third one, then you could (in theory) get backed up all the way to the 15 for the final attempt. Or, if only one out-of-bounds kick was allowed and the second turned over possession (as I think the rule was for some time, and still is in high school), then you could have one kickoff out of bounds, followed by a successful onside kick negated by offsides on the kicking team, which would also back you up to the 15 for the final kick.

Another way that might work:
- Kickoff from 25 because of personal foul penalty
- Another 5-yard penalty for offsides or kick out of bounds
- Onside kick from the 20, deflects backwards off of a player from the kicking team attempting to make a recovery
- Edwards recovers it on the 17-yard line and runs it in
- Since that was the first time someone from the return team touched it, that's where they credit the return as starting.

Man. I've spent way too much time thinking about this. I hope someone finds out the real answer.

[steelreserve]

wait, no -- I found the box score from the game, and now it makes even less sense:

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/194910070cra.htm

Prior to that kick return, Edwards' team was TRAILING 31-17. After he returned it, they trailed 31-24. So it wouldn't have been an onside kick. Now what the hell?

[Psycho Ward 86]

Yeah, I have no idea how that's possible either. The only thing I can think of is an onside kick attempt run back for a TD, after the starting point of the kickoff had already been backed up by a penalty. But even that wouldn't work, since up until the 1970s, kickoffs started from the 40-yard line, so even after a personal foul., you'd still be starting from the 25. Maybe if there were multiple penalties, but I think they only enforce one.

The only other thing I can think of is a safety followed by a penalty that made the kickoff start at the 10, then an onside kick run back for a TD. But since onside kicks aren't allowed after a safety, that doesn't make sense either. Maybe the rule was different then? Or maybe they tried an onside kick anyway, hoping that the other team would touch it first and it would count as a fumble? That's all I got.

i guess the wind really took that kick haha

[tihmtahm]

Maybe the Steelers were kicking off and the ball somehow got to Edwards via bouncing around... maybe a fumble... but since it's a kickoff... no matter what happens it's still technically a kickoff return... so if a guy from the other team botches a kick off catch and Edwards recovered it around the 15 yd line and was able to get into the end zone...

I'm surprised there's not something more regarding this very odd and rare occurrence.

[steelreserve]

Maybe the Steelers were kicking off and the ball somehow got to Edwards via bouncing around... maybe a fumble... but since it's a kickoff... no matter what happens it's still technically a kickoff return... so if a guy from the other team botches a kick off catch and Edwards recovered it around the 15 yd line and was able to get into the end zone...

I'm surprised there's not something more regarding this very odd and rare occurrence.

I think if anyone actually had possession of the ball and ran with it before it got to Edwards, it would count as either a) a fumble return, if the kicking team had possession, or b) if Edwards' team had possession, a kickoff return from the spot where they first touched it.

And in any case, they'd have to be kicking off from very close to their own end zone - at least two penalties, since they used to kick off from the 40 - and we know it wasn't a free kick because there's no safety in the box score. Also, the only thing that makes sense is an onside attempt, but the kicking team was leading by two touchdowns late in the game. So it really just boggles my mind.

I suppose the real way to find out would be to dig up an old copy of the Chicago Tribune from October 8, 1949 from the archives in some library, and see if it says anything about the play. You know, I am going to be in Chicago anyway in mid-January, so I might actually do that if no one figures it out before then.

[tihmtahm]

I looked for the Chicago Tribune archives online and they have a pay per article and / or subscription that you can pay for... I did a search for the article, but don't feel like paying for it just in case I'm wrong about the article... but this is what I found for the article...

Hornets Lose to New York, 38-24
BUDDY YOUNG SCORES THREE TOUCHDOWNS Ties League Record Before 17,098 Stinger Bent

Chicago Daily Tribune (1923-1963) - Chicago, Ill.


Author:
Cromie, Robert


Date:
Oct 8, 1949


Start Page:
A1


Pages:
1


Section:
PART 2

[steelreserve]

Yeah, I don't know about paying for it either ... but that does sound like the right game. Heck, it might be enough of a "nationwide" paper that they could have archives of it at libraries all over the place, not just in Chicago, so I'll probably check next time I'm near one. Or maybe ask some of the people in Chicago that I know; one of them probably subscribes to that paper and could look it up.