LeBeau wants to come back as Steelers defensive coordinator [Archive]

stillers4me

12-13-2013, 05:38 AM

Dick LeBeau's coaching resume might be unmatched by any defensive coordinator in NFL history. If it's up to him, it won't end with the Steelers (http://triblive.com/sports/steelers/)' disappointing 2013 season.

LeBeau said Thursday he wants to coach for a 42nd season in 2014, and he hopes the Steelers want him back to run a defense that has led almost every major statistical category since 2004.

“I've been blessed to be able to coach this long, and I want to coach, obviously. Because I am a coach,” said LeBeau, who will be 77 at the start of next season. “Again, we'll have to see if people want you to coach.” ..........

Read more: http://triblive.com/sports/steelers/5226061-74/lebeau-coach-defensive#ixzz2nM0hbgpW

one side only

12-13-2013, 07:47 AM

His scheme is tired, even if he isn't. Get him some players and see what he can do.

salamander

12-13-2013, 08:48 AM

Part of me would love to have him back but the other part of me would like to see some change in that spot...

Dwinsgames

12-13-2013, 09:38 AM

Lebeau's system is is liken to a machine gun . his players are the ammo ... he lacks the proper ammo to chamber the gun

zulater

12-13-2013, 09:52 AM

Tough call. Glad I don't have to make it. But if it were my call I'd encourage him to retire, and if he refused I'd guess I'd have to fire him. And it's not him, it's the players. We don't have the players to execute his system properly. And I don't think that can be rectified in one offseason. No real nose tackle, no good inside linebacker other than Timmons. And Troy and Clark have become huge liabilities in coverage, and their tackling in unreliable.

I think we need to switch to the 4-3, and revamp most of the secondary

one side only

12-13-2013, 11:00 AM

Dwinsgames

12-13-2013, 11:02 AM

http://sportsblogs.post-gazette.com/sports/steelers-steelers-blog

Defensive coordinator Dick LeBeau acknowledges there are some problems this season, especially when it comes to allowing big plays, but he said Thursday afternoon that age among his veteran core is not the issue.

If he really thinks that age hasn't been a factor, then he needs to go.

Lebeau is right , age is not the issue , losing a step that came with age is ... not every player loses that step at the same time , some lose it in their early 30s some mid 30s some seemingly overnight

steelreserve

12-13-2013, 12:14 PM

Lebeau's system is is liken to a machine gun . his players are the ammo ... he lacks the proper ammo to chamber the gun

Let me ask you a question ... if you owned a .45 caliber gun, and the price of .45 ammo suddenly went up to $1,500 a bullet .... and your friend gave you a bunch of 9mm ammo because it was the only thing available ... and you had the option of picking up a 9mm gun for free whenever you wanted ... what would be the smart thing to do? Use the 9mm ammo in a 9mm gun? Or stand around for five years getting mugged all the time and saying it was your friend's fault for giving you the wrong ammo?

Dwinsgames

12-13-2013, 02:22 PM

Craic

12-13-2013, 02:43 PM

Let me ask you a question ... if you owned a .45 caliber gun, and the price of .45 ammo suddenly went up to $1,500 a bullet .... and your friend gave you a bunch of 9mm ammo because it was the only thing available ... and you had the option of picking up a 9mm gun for free whenever you wanted ... what would be the smart thing to do? Use the 9mm ammo in a 9mm gun? Or stand around for five years getting mugged all the time and saying it was your friend's fault for giving you the wrong ammo?

Neither, I'd buy a new conversion barrel and magazine. The frame can handle it. Point being, the problem isn't Lebeau. He made his system based on the players he had. He tweaked that system when he got Troy P. and then tweaked it again when he got Timmons up to speed.

I was ready for him to roll on out of here a few years ago. Then I watched as he tweaked his system to make us, once again, the dominant defensive team in the NFL. Now, it'll be a joy to watch him tweak that system again.

steelreserve

12-13-2013, 04:21 PM

show me the free ammo (free players ) and then I will answer the question

We already have the ammo; that's the point. The players we've drafted over the past several years are the equivalent of 9mm ammo, and LeBeau's 3-4 defense is the .45 caliber gun. The 9mm gun (a different defensive scheme) is sitting right there to use whenever he feels like it.

I am not saying our current roster is loaded with hidden talent and the scheme is our only problem. What I see is that given the strengths/weaknesses and talent level of the current players, we could make an ACCEPTABLE 4-3 or hybrid defense - instead, he sticks with a 3-4 defense that tries to be great, but falls flat because the players aren't good enough anymore. As I've said in other threads, the 3-4 is perfectly set up to emphasize the weaknesses of the current roster: No good NT. An oversupply of defensive ends that are more like 4-3 DTs. At least one OLB that is more like a 4-3 DE. A lot of demands on our weak second ILB position. Extra strain on a secondary that has lost a step - compounded by the fact that we're no longer getting the QB pressure that we need to bail them out.

Like I said, we'd have an ACCEPTABLE defense, not a great one. I can see just like you can that our talent level is a far cry from 2008 or 2005. Incidentally, that's why I picked 9mm; it's a crappy round, but if you don't have a ton of money to spend on ammo, it's acceptable. It sure beats the hell out of jamming the 9mm ammo in the wrong gun and wrecking the whole thing, which is essentially what we're doing now.

Neither, I'd buy a new conversion barrel and magazine. The frame can handle it. Point being, the problem isn't Lebeau. He made his system based on the players he had. He tweaked that system when he got Troy P. and then tweaked it again when he got Timmons up to speed.

I was ready for him to roll on out of here a few years ago. Then I watched as he tweaked his system to make us, once again, the dominant defensive team in the NFL. Now, it'll be a joy to watch him tweak that system again.

I would like nothing more than to see him do that. The question is, will he? As you can see, I'm a bit skeptical that he's so married to the scheme that he either can't see the round-peg/square-hole thing going on, or he's too stubborn to change it.

Now, if you just said to me hey, let's come up with the best defense we can from scratch, I can't think of many more knowledgeable people than LeBeau to do that. But being stuck on a system just because it's the incumbent is dangerous. I think the system needs more than a tweak to succeed with this group of players. If LeBeau can do it, great. Hell, Tomlin used to be a defensive coordinator too; maybe he could help. But that would require him to get off his ass and do some coaching, so it might be a bit far-fetched.

fansince'76

12-13-2013, 04:37 PM

We’re almost to the end of a second season without the playoffs and Heinz Field is looking like a ghost town with all of the no-shows.

Pathetic.

Psycho Ward 86

12-13-2013, 04:38 PM

these analogies are hurting my head

Dwinsgames

12-13-2013, 04:49 PM

these analogies are hurting my head

you are not the only one ... trust me..

Use Fangupo at NT or Woods ( solves one issue )

Draft a guy like Skov in the second round solves another ...

regardless of a 4-3 or a 3-4 the back end of the defense needs over hauled so you draft the pieces needed to succeed ...

a good start on that would be to use the entire draft to build competition on the football team not draft 4 rounds and then look to fill the practice squad with warm bodies that may or may not pan out

steelreserve

12-13-2013, 05:04 PM

We’re almost to the end of a second season without the playoffs and Heinz Field is looking like a ghost town with all of the no-shows.

Pathetic.

Well, what do you want? I love football as much as the next guy, but the NFL makes it inconvenient as hell to actually go to a game in person. Yeah, it's a rare treat for people who don't live there to go to any game. But if I was a season ticket holder who went to the first 6 games and the preseason, and you told me "Hey, you can either drive through a snowstorm and then go through all kinds of bullshit to watch your team play out the string ... or you can watch the game anyway from home or at a bar," I can see how the latter is appealing.

People are always saying "Well, it doesn't matter if we have a losing season, we've got great fans and they know the team will be back!" But ... yeah, it can happen to any franchise. People can put up with a losing season, but if they lose faith in the owner or the direction of the team, they find other shit to worry about. I saw it happen to both professional football teams here, right up close. And try telling anyone Raiders fans aren't a passionate fan base. No, we're nowhere near Raiders-level trouble, but the point is most people don't give "unconditional" support to a team, at least not indefinitely. Nor should it be that way; otherwise, you're just rooting for a shirt.

GoSlash27

12-13-2013, 05:22 PM

For real, people around here... :wtf:
Dick LeBeau's defenses have consistently been among the best in the NFL. Every freakin' year. The man's in the HoF as a coach, and not even a *head* coach!
We have one year with a bad defense (one!!) and everyone's like "He's old an' busted!"
Now, it's one thing to think we'll find a decent DC to replace him, but it's completely different to assume that we'll find anyone else as good. Totally preposterous to assume that we can find somebody *better*... as if *that's* easy. :chuckle:

Can anyone here name a DC who's better than Lebeau, *and* will be looking for a job this off- season?

Craic

12-13-2013, 05:39 PM

Well, what do you want? I love football as much as the next guy, but the NFL makes it inconvenient as hell to actually go to a game in person. Yeah, it's a rare treat for people who don't live there to go to any game. But if I was a season ticket holder who went to the first 6 games and the preseason, and you told me "Hey, you can either drive through a snowstorm and then go through all kinds of bullshit to watch your team play out the string ... or you can watch the game anyway from home or at a bar," I can see how the latter is appealing.

People are always saying "Well, it doesn't matter if we have a losing season, we've got great fans and they know the team will be back!" But ... yeah, it can happen to any franchise. People can put up with a losing season, but if they lose faith in the owner or the direction of the team, they find other shit to worry about. I saw it happen to both professional football teams here, right up close. And try telling anyone Raiders fans aren't a passionate fan base. No, we're nowhere near Raiders-level trouble, but the point is most people don't give "unconditional" support to a team, at least not indefinitely. Nor should it be that way; otherwise, you're just rooting for a shirt.

Actually, I wonder how many of those season tickets have found their way into corporate hands. The issue then being that there just aren't as many corporate people who might go, just because it's something to do, excited to go see a game when the Steelers aren't a playoff team. I've also been shocked at how many seats are empty either at kickoff or at half time. That's been true in their good years. I wonder why the lackadaisical attitude.

ALLD

12-13-2013, 05:40 PM

He deserves one more season. LeBeau returns.

steelreserve

12-13-2013, 05:55 PM

you are not the only one ... trust me..

Use Fangupo at NT or Woods ( solves one issue )

Draft a guy like Skov in the second round solves another ...

regardless of a 4-3 or a 3-4 the back end of the defense needs over hauled so you draft the pieces needed to succeed ...

a good start on that would be to use the entire draft to build competition on the football team not draft 4 rounds and then look to fill the practice squad with warm bodies that may or may not pan out

That's a good way to start the process if you want to be good in 3 or 4 years (at which point it's likely LeBeau is retired anyway). I'm just talking about what would make us better with what we have now. I'm not sure I see the benefit of using a high draft pick to fix the ILB position and gambling that an unproven guy will turn into a dominant nose tackle, when you can also address both of those problems just as effectively without spending any draft picks or taking any big gambles.

What is it about the 3-4 that people are so clingy about? It's not your team or an "identity," it's a defensive alignment. Nothing about it makes you better or worse than if you used any other defensive scheme. What matters is using the right defensive scheme. That's the identity I want.

Dwinsgames

12-13-2013, 06:11 PM

That's a good way to start the process if you want to be good in 3 or 4 years (at which point it's likely LeBeau is retired anyway). I'm just talking about what would make us better with what we have now. I'm not sure I see the benefit of using a high draft pick to fix the ILB position and gambling that an unproven guy will turn into a dominant nose tackle, when you can also address both of those problems just as effectively without spending any draft picks or taking any big gambles.

What is it about the 3-4 that people are so clingy about? It's not your team or an "identity," it's a defensive alignment. Nothing about it makes you better or worse than if you used any other defensive scheme. What matters is using the right defensive scheme. That's the identity I want.

what makes you think a switch to a 4-3 is a better alternative ? ( I think Skov would not only start but be a potential Def rookie of the year candidate playing inside in the 3-4 along side Timmons) and I am less certain the guys we currently have on the roster are capable at rushing the passer out of ta 4-3 alignment ...

Woodley has a tough time beating TE's with a 5 yard head start on them what makes you think he could beat a Tackle 1 on 1 every down and who do you put on the other side ?

Heyward would be a DT in a 4-3 alignment or would be playing out of pos

the only other capable rusher is Worilds who is far to light to play DE and is not under contract anyways in 2014

First round pick from last year is far to small to play DE and probably to big to play LB in a 4-3

we are no better suited for 2014 for a 4-3 team than a 3-4 team IMO ( and probably less so to be frank )

so you switch guys to positions they are unfamiliar with and or way way out of practice at and it takes them an entire season to adjust and still have to draft guys to fill the scheme properly all the while throwing away last years first round pick in the process ...

and STILL sit with a broken back end of the defense ..... hence nothing changes you still end up middle of the pack if you are lucky

we need to work the draft , make some trades , trade back and back again picking up more picks , sign Valesco to play C , trade Pouncey get some value there and plug the holes , get some protection for Ben or trade him .... if you are going to keep a QB in his 30s you better not get him beat to hell week in week out the older you get the longer it takes to feel better .....

visit the thread if the season ended today in the draft forum , my plan is there ( anyone know Colberts address ? lol )

steelreserve

12-13-2013, 06:13 PM

Actually, I wonder how many of those season tickets have found their way into corporate hands. The issue then being that there just aren't as many corporate people who might go, just because it's something to do, excited to go see a game when the Steelers aren't a playoff team. I've also been shocked at how many seats are empty either at kickoff or at half time. That's been true in their good years. I wonder why the lackadaisical attitude.

That could be part of it. I also think that since the last month of the season coincides with the worst weather, that could dampen people's enthusiasm too. I mean, I've been to games in the snow, but it's the possibility of being stuck driving around in that crap for 4 hours that is less than stellar.

The empty seats at the start of the half aren't from a lack of enthusiasm; it's because they didn't build enough restrooms and food stands. Every game I've been to, it's been absolute bedlam at halftime as 500 people try to crowd into every men's room and a flash mob appears at every hot dog stand, and everybody gets in everybody else's way. I mean, you have the same problem to some extent at any stadium, but some parks have it figured out a little better than others.

Psycho Ward 86

12-13-2013, 07:00 PM

i think one of the things that needs to be done as we inevitably get younger on defense as we have the past season or two is simplifying the defense. It did wonders for the 49ers. Its a big part of their rise as one of the NFL's premium teams

Devilsdancefloor

12-13-2013, 07:38 PM

Lebeau's system is is liken to a machine gun . his players are the ammo ... he lacks the proper ammo to chamber the gun

This X1000 we need a dominate NT period

st33lersguy

12-13-2013, 07:46 PM

It's time for him to retire. He's a shell of his former stuff. Sometimes you got to recognize when legends are past their prime and let them go when that happens

Dwinsgames

12-13-2013, 08:07 PM

It's time for him to retire. He's a shell of his former stuff. Sometimes you got to recognize when legends are past their prime and let them go when that happens

hogwash

strange how the departure of key players on the Def is also the turning point of this defenses performance and you want to blame in on the guy on the sidelines ....

2013 defenses losses from 2012 season are to much to over come ...

Starting NT from 2012 the basis of the 3-4 Gone

Starting OLB from 2012 the pressure and contain and second most important facet of the 3-4 Gone

Starting CB from 2012 the last line of defense Gone

Starting ILB from 2012 lost early in the season to injury Gone

noteworthy players to help replace them selected in the draft 1 OLB a rookie who needs a year to learn the nuances of this def and a rookie playing ILB who would be lucky to make a lot of NFL clubs acquired for a 6th round pick .....

significant losses of 30% of last years starting Def and minimal effort put forth to replace those losses will make any coordinator look bad and yes even one of Dick Lebeau's caliber .... the game has not passed him by the lack of talented players is rearing its ugly head , nothing more nothing less

MrPgh

12-13-2013, 11:43 PM

fansince'76

12-14-2013, 12:18 AM

Well, what do you want?

I want Steelers fans in general to stop thumping their chests and declaring themselves as the best fanbase in the league. As far as I'm concerned, and it pains me to say it, the Browns have a more loyal fanbase than we do.

Seven

12-14-2013, 12:31 AM

Dick LeBeau is the problem? Yeah, I mean, kicking Arians to the curb was such a great decision, how could we possibly go wrong by cutting LeBeau loose?

Crow-Magnon

12-14-2013, 04:58 AM

Seriously, too many Steeler fans simply expect the #1 defense year-after-year, and anything less is not a disappointment; it is a cause for panic and mass executions.

Is the Steelers defense playing below standard this season? No doubt. I feel your pain, as I am witnessing the same here. It happens to every team in the NFL. In Pittsburgh's case, it ain't really the fault of the DC if his players cannot hold up their end of the bargain. Ike Taylor looked like crap not too long ago then had a string of some good games late last year IIRC, but did anyone really consider him a shutdown corner?

I think when it comes to coordinators, the defensive one is the least of Pittsburgh's concerns.

ALLD

12-14-2013, 07:45 AM

I would advocate to bring back Joe Greene and the 4-3, but he just retired. Most of the legends of the 1970s have passed, so has our defense.

GoSlash27

12-14-2013, 07:55 AM

I want Steelers fans in general to stop thumping their chests and declaring themselves as the best fanbase in the league. As far as I'm concerned, and it pains me to say it, the Browns have a more loyal fanbase than we do.

As do the Raiders and Buccaneers.
We've got a lot of "fair weather" fans and people on the bandwagon, but we also have a core of diehard bleed-black-and-gold troopers. How many remains to be seen.

On the up- side, I plan on coming to Pittsburgh for our home opener next year. Hopefully this will make it easier to get tickets.

GoSlash27

12-14-2013, 08:19 AM

Seriously, too many Steeler fans simply expect the #1 defense year-after-year, and anything less is not a disappointment; it is a cause for panic and mass executions.

'Zackly. And I hope the FO never listens to them. That's how bottom- feeder football organizations operate. I don't want the Steelers to be a bottom- feeder football organization.

Dwinsgames

12-14-2013, 08:42 AM

many people clearly do not realize the obstacles Lebeau is trying to over come with a unit that is unable to over come them ....

Lebeaus world Champ Cake

he lacks a dominant Nose that commands a double team ( mandatory for a successful 3-4 scheme ) we will call this the Flour

he lacks adequate pressure from the OLBs ( manditory for a successful 3-4 scheme ) we will call this the eggs

he lacks good coverage in the secondary ( manditory for any scheme if you are not providing adequate pressure ) we will call this the water

The recipe is the system , the ingredients are the players it takes to make it work ... you can have the worlds greatest recipe but you will not win 1 bake off without the proper ingredients to make that recipe ....

Colbert needs to double check his shopping list and make sure he finds some quality ingredients that is in Lebeau's recipe

GoSlash27

12-14-2013, 09:05 AM

You know what they say: You can't build a trebuchet without the bacon- flavored penguins. I mean.. in a pinch you can use lavender pumps, but it'll get lousy gas mileage.

GBMelBlount

12-14-2013, 11:33 AM

Judging by the title I am assuming he is talking about reincarnation.

- - - Updated - - -

You know what they say: You can't build a trebuchet without the bacon- flavored penguins. I mean.. in a pinch you can use lavender pumps, but it'll get lousy gas mileage.

Who is "they"? Your therapist? :chuckle:

tube517

12-14-2013, 01:11 PM

steelreserve

12-14-2013, 05:24 PM

I want Steelers fans in general to stop thumping their chests and declaring themselves as the best fanbase in the league. As far as I'm concerned, and it pains me to say it, the Browns have a more loyal fanbase than we do.

Probably right, since the only Browns fans left are the die-hard ones. The hardcore Steelers fans are probably just as loyal. There are also a lot of "casual" fans who jumped on board because the team was winning, which should be expected. The more people you have in anything, the more it regresses toward the average.

- - - Updated - - -

many people clearly do not realize the obstacles Lebeau is trying to over come with a unit that is unable to over come them ....

Lebeaus world Champ Cake

he lacks a dominant Nose that commands a double team ( mandatory for a successful 3-4 scheme ) we will call this the Flour

he lacks adequate pressure from the OLBs ( manditory for a successful 3-4 scheme ) we will call this the eggs

he lacks good coverage in the secondary ( manditory for any scheme if you are not providing adequate pressure ) we will call this the water

The recipe is the system , the ingredients are the players it takes to make it work ... you can have the worlds greatest recipe but you will not win 1 bake off without the proper ingredients to make that recipe ....

Colbert needs to double check his shopping list and make sure he finds some quality ingredients that is in Lebeau's recipe

If we're shifting analogies, I still say someone needs to tell LeBeau to stop trying to make a cake when all you have are the ingredients for chili. That's going to be one crappy cake.

Now, who could tell him that? Someone on the coaching staff who ranks higher than him, maybe? Is there anyone like that on the team? I guess not.

GoSlash27

12-14-2013, 08:40 PM

Probably right, since the only Browns fans left are the die-hard ones. The hardcore Steelers fans are probably just as loyal. There are also a lot of "casual" fans who jumped on board because the team was winning, which should be expected. The more people you have in anything, the more it regresses toward the average.

- - - Updated - - -

If we're shifting analogies, I still say someone needs to tell LeBeau to stop trying to make a cake when all you have are the ingredients for chili. That's going to be one crappy cake.

Now, who could tell him that? Someone on the coaching staff who ranks higher than him, maybe? Is there anyone like that on the team? I guess not.

All these analogies hurt my head, but we *don't* have the ingredients for chili. *If* (and that's a big "if") we don't have the proper personnel for the current scheme, that doesn't mean they're perfect for a different scheme.
A DC is in the business of 1) tailoring the plays to the personnel he has and 2) finding the personnel to run the plays he wants to do.
LeBeau is better at that job than most people who do it for a living. Many would say that he's better at it than *anyone*. Maybe that's true and maybe it's not, but one thing's absolutely certain: He's *definitely* better at that job than either of us are.

pepsyman1

12-15-2013, 03:34 AM

My biggest problem with Coach D is that's he's been unwilling to move on from older players until they are either injured or to old to offer another contract to. We've been very slow in bringing younger talent up to speed. Our best years defensively always gave the impression that our D was FAST. They gang tackled, they rarely gave up big plays and they could blitz from almost anywhere and get to the QB. We waited FAR too long to reload and regardless of whether he's the final say on the draft (obviously he's not). I lay it at his feet that we are sitting without the ammo needed to run his D

Bluecoat96

12-15-2013, 07:58 AM

Here's another one of my many rambling thoughts. Do you think that all of the older players we have hung on to for too long and all of the salary cap issues can be put on the Rooneys' family atmosphere they like to foster? They like to take care of their own.

I'm a little too young to really remember the 70's Steel Curtain defense, but what were the issues that led to the 80's demise (so to speak) of the Steel Curtain defense? Did we hang on to those players a little too long?

I'm not trying to start an argument, just presenting one of my many rambling thoughts to my SU brethren.

tube517

12-15-2013, 09:45 AM

I see many similarities between 2011-2013 and 1979-1981. In 1979 you could see the defense was starting to be a shell of itself. We won SB XIV but earlier in the year we got spanked by the Chargers Air Coryell and an OC named Walsh 35-7. The Steel Curtain was destroyed. We probably would have lost to the Chargers in the playoffs were it not for the Oilers upsetting them in the playoffs. By 1981 the defense could not stop anyone and we finished 8-8. They were old and we didn't have the backups or rookies to replace the aging hall of famers. In 1982 they revamped the defense to a 3-4 scheme and went back to the playoffs.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I717 using Tapatalk

Texasteel

12-15-2013, 10:04 AM