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Edman
12-08-2013, 03:18 PM
The Steelers do not make the postseason in back-to-back years. This is pretty bad.

When they said this was a team in transition, they weren't kidding. To make matters worse, we're going to lose a draft pick too. Thanks Tomlin.

X-Terminator
12-08-2013, 03:20 PM
Sure, because after all, the Steelers are not allowed to have any down seasons whatsoever.

The bill has come due for the championship seasons. The sooner the fans understand that, the better off they will be.

zulater
12-08-2013, 03:26 PM
Sure, because after all, the Steelers are not allowed to have any down seasons whatsoever.

The bill has come due for the championship seasons. The sooner the fans understand that, the better off they will be.

This coming from the guy who will destroy the Penguins for not sweeping every playoff series.

MrPgh
12-08-2013, 03:28 PM
Watch both LeBeau and Haley come back next season and the Steelers try to blame their poor record over the last two seasons on bad bounces and injuries, again.

X-Terminator
12-08-2013, 03:30 PM
This coming from the guy who will destroy the Penguins for not sweeping every playoff series.

Yeah, and? I don't have the same passion for the Steelers that I do the Penguins. So sue me. Not only that, it is FAR more frustrating for a team to underachieve when they consistently have the most talent in the league than it is for a team where the talent is in decline.

Anyway, I don't have any intention of bashing either team regardless of what they do, so you can just check that right there.

zulater
12-08-2013, 03:44 PM
Yeah, and? I don't have the same passion for the Steelers that I do the Penguins. So sue me. Not only that, it is FAR more frustrating for a team to underachieve when they consistently have the most talent in the league than it is for a team where the talent is in decline.

Anyway, I don't have any intention of bashing either team regardless of what they do, so you can just check that right there.

So maybe it's time to stop looking down your nose on passionate Steeler fans who are convinced that the Steelers are underachieving as well.

zulater
12-08-2013, 03:58 PM
When does the Patriots bill come due for winning 11+ games season after season?

The Steelers have become a mediocre franchise because they are mediocrealy managed.

X-Terminator
12-08-2013, 04:01 PM
So maybe it's time to stop looking down your nose on passionate Steeler fans who are convinced that the Steelers are underachieving as well.

I'll continue to say whatever I want, thanks. It's not my fault that the first thing the Steelers fans want to do if they even have a bad series is fire everyone. At least I don't do that with the Penguins.

steeldawg
12-08-2013, 04:03 PM
I'll continue to say whatever I want, thanks. It's not my fault that the first thing the Steelers fans want to do if they even have a bad series is fire everyone. At least I don't do that with the Penguins.

Well we are going on 2 bad seasons in a row now, at some point something has to change.

zulater
12-08-2013, 04:04 PM
I'll continue to say whatever I want, thanks. It's not my fault that the first thing the Steelers fans want to do if they even have a bad series is fire everyone. At least I don't do that with the Penguins.

Blysma vs Tomlin resume's anyone?

You kill anyone who dare's to suggest Tomlin's part of the problem. Meanwhile Blysma is the worst coach alive despite the fact that his regular season record is the best of virtually anyone in the league. and yes regular season matters, because if you suck in the regular season you don't even get to fail in the postseason.

X-Terminator
12-08-2013, 04:08 PM
Well we are going on 2 bad seasons in a row now, at some point something has to change.

Changes most certainly will be made. I just don't believe firing the head coach should be one of them, even if I do question some of his decisions. There are many other places where changes can be made without firing the coach, and the team can improve. And let's also not discount upper management's role in all of this either - to me, that is the elephant in the room. I don't think it's a coincidence that once Dan turned the team over to Art II and he started issuing mandates, the team has become mediocre.

X-Terminator
12-08-2013, 04:09 PM
Blysma vs Tomlin resume's anyone?

You kill anyone who dare's to suggest Tomlin's part of the problem. Meanwhile Blysma is the worst coach alive despite the fact that his regular season record is the best of virtually anyone in the league. and yes regular season matters, because if you suck in the regular season you don't even get to fail in the postseason.

I don't deny Tomlin's part of the problem. I don't believe firing him is the solution. Whereas Bylsma has proven that he cannot win in the playoffs despite being given an assload of talent, something that Tomlin has proven he can do. People say that Tomlin won his title with Cowher's players...well, Bylsma won his title with Therrien's players...and has done nothing with that group since. Tomlin at least got his team back to the SB after winning in 2008.

Dwinsgames
12-08-2013, 04:11 PM
our problems start with the ability to evaluate talent PRIOR to them wearing black n gold ...

Tomlin has made his share of mistakes , so has Lebeau , and Haley but at the end of the day they can only assemble a team from the players that are laid in their laps and to be frank , those players just are not good enough ....

its sad really when I can spot talent they can not , I have a job and it is not player evaluation that is my hobby ...

we have guys being paid to do a job that many ( myself included ) are more successful at than they are and that is a crying shame ....

we need better player evaluation , we need better drafting , we need more talent , more competition for jobs more choices for the coaching staff to assemble a team that can be highly competitive and at this point in time we simply do not have that ....

posted this in the draft section today after the game ...

Re: Day 3 projections / guys still available

http://www.steelersuniverse.com/forums/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by Dwinsgames http://www.steelersuniverse.com/forums/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://www.steelersuniverse.com/forums/showthread.php?p=371881#post371881)
Da'Rick Rogers
Tavarras King
Tony Jefferson
Kevin Reddick

Now one of those please




Da'Rick Rogers 6 catches 107 yards and 2 Tds in his colts debut today , what have we got from Wheaton thus far again ?

Jefferson is a starter .... Rogers is now a starter .... Kevin Reddick is getting playing time for the Saints


what have we gotten from our later round guys ? NOTHING


some will disagree and I know that before I even click submit , some will make excuses and say Colbert was good enough in the past , others will say its the coaching etc etc .... whatever because at the end of the day even if guys are coached at the highest level if they are not as talented as the other team more often than not they will lose ( sure any given team and given day ) so not every time but more often than not the most talented teams win

we have missed so many opportunities late in drafts since Colbert has come to town it is sickening , he has even stated in the past we only have so many roster spots so they will be looking at drafting for the Practice squad late in the draft ....

WHAT !!!

you should ALWAYS be looking to make the team stronger through competition for jobs and drafting the best possible players to do so not look for guys who MIGHT develop in 2 or 3 years into a serviceable backup ..

end rant

katmandu
12-08-2013, 04:13 PM
It's not my fault that the first thing the Steelers fans want to do if they even have a bad series is fire everyone.

At least I don't do that with the Penguins. "THE" Steeler fans ? Are you not one too ?

BTW, not all of believe that everyone should be fired, so don't go stereotyping all of us.

X-Terminator
12-08-2013, 04:13 PM
I've mentioned Colbert being a big part of the problem in the past as well, Dwins. So I don't disagree with you at all.

X-Terminator
12-08-2013, 04:14 PM
Not all of believe that so don't all stereotype us.

That was admittedly said flippantly. Of course not all Steelers fans believe that...in fact, the vast majority don't. I'm not that naive.

Craic
12-08-2013, 04:30 PM
Yes, we missed the playoffs twice in a row. Both times however, this team was in the playoff hunt come December. Does that excuse it? No, but it also doesn't mean we need to blow the team up. People were yelling and screaming about the coaching. Yet, the coaching brought a team that was 0-4 back to being a contender. That in itself is a sign of turning things around.

In short, this isn't the late 90's were we were out of contention early. This isn't 2003 where we played meaningless games as soon as the weather turned cold. We were literally an inch from still being in contention.

Are there problems? Yes. A lot. For the first time, I think the play calling in the fourth quarter today was worse than the infamous Browns game under Arians. But I personally think that the offense itself is playing better than they have in a couple years (finally). Now we need to continue to fill the holes and defense.

There's a reason why teams that keep the long view win much more often, patience for player development is the key, it always has been, and even in a "what have you done for me in the last five minutes" mindset of today's NFL fan (in general), its' still the key.

As far as the Pats* are concerned, they don't have those problems because they continually cut players and bring new players along. Well, that and I'm starting to suspect a bit of videotape again.

steeldawg
12-08-2013, 04:32 PM
Yes, we missed the playoffs twice in a row. Both times however, this team was in the playoff hunt come December. Does that excuse it? No, but it also doesn't mean we need to blow the team up. People were yelling and screaming about the coaching. Yet, the coaching brought a team that was 0-4 back to being a contender. That in itself is a sign of turning things around.

In short, this isn't the late 90's were we were out of contention early. This isn't 2003 where we played meaningless games as soon as the weather turned cold. We were literally an inch from still being in contention.

Are there problems? Yes. A lot. For the first time, I think the play calling in the fourth quarter today was worse than the infamous Browns game under Arians. But I personally think that the offense itself is playing better than they have in a couple years (finally). Now we need to continue to fill the holes and defense.

There's a reason why teams that keep the long view win much more often, patience for player development is the key, it always has been, and even in a "what have you done for me in the last five minutes" mindset of today's NFL fan (in general), its' still the key.

As far as the Pats* are concerned, they don't have those problems because they continually cut players and bring new players along. Well, that and I'm starting to suspect a bit of videotape again.

I don't think the team needs to be blown up I think its the coaching staff and front office.

fansince'76
12-08-2013, 04:34 PM
As far as the Pats* are concerned, they don't have those problems because they continually cut players and bring new players along. Well, that and I'm starting to suspect a bit of videotape again.

Oh no, they continually keep getting blanked in the first half in their own house only to come out and score 30-40 in the second half because Belichick is such a genius! :jerkit: :rolleyes:

MrPgh
12-08-2013, 05:00 PM
Changes most certainly will be made. I just don't believe firing the head coach should be one of them, even if I do question some of his decisions. There are many other places where changes can be made without firing the coach, and the team can improve. And let's also not discount upper management's role in all of this either - to me, that is the elephant in the room. I don't think it's a coincidence that once Dan turned the team over to Art II and he started issuing mandates, the team has become mediocre.

The problem is Art II might be too much of an egomaniac to accept his decisions have been wrong.

Psycho Ward 86
12-08-2013, 10:21 PM
Yes, we missed the playoffs twice in a row. Both times however, this team was in the playoff hunt come December. Does that excuse it? No, but it also doesn't mean we need to blow the team up.


define "blow up" the team. because ike taylor, troy polamalu, lamaar woodley, brett keisel, emmanuel sanders, and ryan clark are being paid a king's ransom and a ridiculous fraction of the salary cap to play at a mediocre level. the only one i maybe want back is troy

Dwinsgames
12-08-2013, 10:37 PM
define "blow up" the team. because ike taylor, troy polamalu, lamaar woodley, brett keisel, emmanuel sanders, and ryan clark are being paid a king's ransom and a ridiculous fraction of the salary cap to play at a mediocre level. the only one i maybe want back is troy



Keisel , sanders and Clark are all FA this coming off season so those salaries go off the books anyways provided we do not resign them and if we do I hope they do so at Vet min with little to no signing bonus's ....

I prefer they just let Sanders walk and take the supplemental pick in 2014 but I prefered they let him go to the Pats when he signed their offer sheet too but the team thought otherwise ( thanks Colbert ) ....


Troy , Ike and Woodley do eat 30+ million of the cap space on their own and based on the amount of production , missed time and decline in play ( some of each from each with exception to Troy missing time thus far in 2013 ) that is far to much of the cap for average at best play from 2/3 of that group .... Troy has always been a gambler and he comes up big at times because of it but more and more often he lacks the cover up speed to make up for his gambling he used to get away with and it costs us ... I would love Troy at about 2/3 of his payday for another year maybe 2 but am on the fence at his current pricetag ....

Ike and Woodley I just as soon see gone but hard to imagine a scenario where they cut Woodley and pay him as much ( more cap wise ) to NOT be on the team ....

Ike is tough , he and old man Rooney are buddies , can they separate the friendship from the business ? time will tell but clearly his best days are behind him

Craic
12-09-2013, 03:20 PM
define "blow up" the team. because ike taylor, troy polamalu, lamaar woodley, brett keisel, emmanuel sanders, and ryan clark are being paid a king's ransom and a ridiculous fraction of the salary cap to play at a mediocre level. the only one i maybe want back is troy

Blow up: Take a meat clever and cut out pretty much any and all players except for the younger guys.

What we do noeed to do, is move on. Keisel is in the final year of his contract. Let him go. Ike Taylor should be welcomed back if (and only if) he's willing to come in at a very good price and become the number two man. He's still better than a third of the number 1's and most the number 2's in the league. No reason we can't keep him around for another couple years and let him become the second, then third cb before we let him go. Troy P. is having his best year since 2008. I was all for cutting him last year. Not this year. Woodley won't be gone because of his contract. Sanders . . . who knows. We don't have anyone that's proven themselves better, but I also think he'll get overpaid in free-agency.

Coaches: there's the question. The O line has been pretty good the last couple of weeks. Is that because Bicknell had finally been given the reigns from Haley? Or is it because Haley took over? Or is it because Ben has started callin blocking schemes? Anyone who wants Tomlin gone, IMO, wants to cut off their nose to spite their face. He was able to coach this team from a 0-4 start to literally being an inch away from challenging for first place in the AFCN (the pass Sanders dropped against the Ravens) and once again, an inch away from seriously challenging for the AFC wild-card slot. Two weeks in a row we came up just short. IMO, it probably falls on Haley, especially with the pass, pass, pass, during the fourth quarter, and refusing to run with a FB in one of the few situations that even I, who hates the three-yards-and-a-cloud-of-mediocrity mentality, believe that we should have been running on every down in an "I" formation.

To use an illustration, imagine a ship on the ocean. I feel like some around here think we're in a big storm and want to start tossing cargo and equipment off the side. I think that's the wrong approach. For me, we're in some rough sees and need to keep the rudder straight, toss overboard a few pounds of weight that's slowing us down, and keep going. After all, who exactly was cut between 2003 and 2004? or between 2000, and 2001? Dawson retired. We lost Kevin Henry Kirklnd left. and that's it. But the turn around between those seasons was pretty drastic.