Offensive Coordinator Candidates

[Mistah Q]

Real talk here. Let me qualify this discussion by stating that I realize these things:

1. I don't think Haley is one of our problems, but I realize I'm in the vast minority on that.
2. The two most likely scenarios for coaching changes, if there are any at all, are probably
-- a) no major coaching changes (maybe Bicknell or some conditioning staff but that's it)
-- b) Haley fired. Everyone else stays... (maybe again Bicknell or some minor conditioning staff)

So that said, if a lot of you get your wish and Haley is axed, who are some good candidates to replace him?

Bill O'Brien would be a good OC but he's out of reach... if and when he decides to step up to the pros there are a couple head coaching opportunities for him

Ray Brown, OL coach for the Panthers - this guy knows how to turn rookie OL into starters, and their offense stayed productive even after a series of OL injuries last year

Dave Magazu, OL Coach for the Broncos - spent time as TE coach and Offensive assistant with the Panthers too

I certainly wouldn't want to promote anyone from within

[Dwinsgames]

prospects are not good and I FEAR Kirby Wilson will get the job

[Mistah Q]

Kirby Wilson would be a disaster... almost as bad as Bicknell getting it.

When was the last time we really had a RB develop here?

RBs we drafted with prime billing:
Sid Thornton
Greg Hawthorne
Walter Abercrombie
Tim Worley
Bam Morris
Amos Zereoue
Rashard Mendenhall
Le'Veon Bell

RBs who were good but we had to acquire:
Erric Pegram
Jerome Bettis
Duce Staley

That leaves us with... Franco Harris, Merril Hoge, and Barry Foster that we "got right" for ourselves. Bam if you want to stretch it. Jury is out on Le'Veon. Not a good track record really... maybe we should just stop drafting RBs and trade for them. Or get late/UDFA guys like Frank Pollard, Willie Parker...

I guess that's all beside the point except to say... if they're considering Kirby it would be monumentally stupid. RBs don't develop here, not like they should.

[ALLD]

What about Bruce Arians?

[Mistah Q]

I would take the Whiz but I wouldn't really want BA back.

[MrPgh]

One thing that would benefit the next OC would be if Art II stopped demanding a return to prehistoric football.

[Dwinsgames]

One thing that would benefit the next OC would be if Art II stopped demanding a return to prehistoric football.


you mean like the one the 10-1 seahawks run , proving a strong Def. and a good running game can permit you to be a dominant team in this league in 2013 ....

Call me old school if ya want but I have yet to see a team score on someone else when they do not have the football ( not including a safety )

[MrPgh]

you mean like the one the 10-1 seahawks run , proving a strong Def. and a good running game can permit you to be a dominant team in this league in 2013 ....

Call me old school if ya want but I have yet to see a team score on someone else when they do not have the football ( not including a safety )

Good defense and a strong running game? Huh? Oh right, that's something the Steelers don't have. Art II needs to understand his team's best chance is his QB, not trying to pound his head against a brick wall.

Call me modern, but I thought the idea of offense was to score points, not be the defense's nanny. How many times have we seen high-powered offenses destroy the Steelers defense with a lesser possession time? Points are king in today's NFL, not time of possession. The rules have been changed to favor offenses and protect the QBs and WRs. Other teams have caught onto it, so should the Steelers. The NFL isn't going to conform to Art II's outdated vision of football.

[86WARD]

Kirby Wilson would be HORRIBLE. Being a Penn State fan, I have some serious respect for O'Brien and I think he'd be solid in here...whether he would come to Pittsburgh as an OC...I doubt it.

[Dwinsgames]

Good defense and a strong running game? Huh? Oh right, that's something the Steelers don't have. Art II needs to understand his team's best chance is his QB, not trying to pound his head against a brick wall.

Call me modern, but I thought the idea of offense was to score points, not be the defense's nanny. How many times have we seen high-powered offenses destroy the Steelers defense with a lesser possession time? Points are king in today's NFL, not time of possession. The rules have been changed to favor offenses and protect the QBs and WRs. Other teams have caught onto it, so should the Steelers. The NFL isn't going to conform to Art II's outdated vision of football.


guess the primary difference in us is this ...

you prefer the new NFL with lots of points and high flying offenses and pussified rules and player safety and where an ingrown toenail gets the player a 2 week vacation to rest and get well

I prefer smashmouth football where men sought to prove they where tough by beating the snot out of one another play after play till one side caved and the other imposed its will and if you broke your finger you taped it up and was back in the next play

[MrPgh]

guess the primary difference in us is this ...

you prefer the new NFL with lots of points and high flying offenses and pussified rules and player safety and where an ingrown toenail gets the player a 2 week vacation to rest and get well

I prefer smashmouth football where men sought to prove they where tough by beating the snot out of one another play after play till one side caved and the other imposed its will and if you broke your finger you taped it up and was back in the next play

Never said I preferred one style over the other, I just stated that the current state of the NFL favors offense, specifically more passing. What you and I as fans like or dislike doesn't factor into it because the NFL doesn't give a damn what we think so long as they are making a lot of money. The NFL is a business after all. It has no responsibility to uphold any type of sanctity of the game, it has a responsibility to make money. Causal fans like higher-scoring games. Old-school fans maybe not so much, but they're too emotionally connected to the game and their respective teams to stop watching football.

The Steelers can continue to adhere to old school philosophies and continue to be a mediocre team at best, or they can swallow their pride and modernize with the rest of the NFL.

[Dwinsgames]

again the Seahawks seem to be doing ok at 10-1

[MrPgh]

again the Seahawks seem to be doing ok at 10-1

Okay. What does that have to do with this Steeler team? They aren't at all build like the Seahawks, nor is the Steeler defense anywhere close to being as good as the Seahawk defense. And while Russel Wilson certain isn't an elite QB, he's more than just a game manager for them.

If the Broncos, Patriots, and Saints tried to play like the Seahawks they probably wouldn't be very good either.

[Psycho Ward 86]

i dont know about offensive coordinators but if Ray Brown is as good as you say he is, ill gladly take him as our o-line coach. i dont think haley is doing a disastrous job, i think for the most part just a better o-line will fix a ton of things

[Dwinsgames]

Okay. What does that have to do with this Steeler team? They aren't at all build like the Seahawks, nor is the Steeler defense anywhere close to being as good as the Seahawk defense. And while Russel Wilson certain isn't an elite QB, he's more than just a game manager for them.

If the Broncos, Patriots, and Saints tried to play like the Seahawks they probably wouldn't be very good either.

guess I will have to add it up for you .......

you said ....
One thing that would benefit the next OC would be if Art II stopped demanding a return to prehistoric football.

and I said
http://www.steelersuniverse.com/forums/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by Dwinsgames http://www.steelersuniverse.com/forums/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://www.steelersuniverse.com/forums/showthread.php?p=410690#post410690)

you mean like the one the 10-1 seahawks run , proving a strong Def. and a good running game can permit you to be a dominant team in this league in 2013 ....

Call me old school if ya want but I have yet to see a team score on someone else when they do not have the football ( not including a safety )


Rooneys mandate is what the Seahawk are doing and you called prehistoric football ....

whether this team is built for it or not is beside the point , if its what Art wants and him being the boss , that is what he should get and it is everyone else's job to make sure it happens and that includes being built for it considering he did not hire them to build their team he hired them to build his team

[fansince'76]

Okay. What does that have to do with this Steeler team? They aren't at all build like the Seahawks, nor is the Steeler defense anywhere close to being as good as the Seahawk defense. And while Russel Wilson certain isn't an elite QB, he's more than just a game manager for them.

If the Broncos, Patriots, and Saints tried to play like the Seahawks they probably wouldn't be very good either.

Agreed. I'd also like to add that the Seahawks were down 21-7 at halftime against Tampa Bay and were down 20-3 against Houston at halftime and came back to win both games. When's the last time we did that? Additionally, they've scored 30+ points 4 times, including two games in which they scored 40+. We struggle to get out of the teens most games. The Seahawks can put up points when they need to. We seemingly can't. Of course, the Seahawks also have an opportunistic defense that has given them a number short fields, whereas our offense usually has to go 80-90+ yards to get TDs on the vast majority of our possessions. That factors into it too. I am almost certain the Steelers' offense probably has one of the worst average starting field positions in the league. We almost always are starting drives inside our own 20, and often inside our own 10.

[Dwinsgames]

Agreed. I'd also like to add that the Seahawks were down 21-7 at halftime against Tampa Bay and were down 20-3 against Houston at halftime and came back to win both games. When's the last time we did that? Additionally, they've scored 30+ points 4 times, including two games in which they scored 40+. We struggle to get out of the teens most games. The Seahawks can put up points when they need to. We seemingly can't. Of course, the Seahawks also have an opportunistic defense that has given them a number short fields, whereas our offense usually has to go 80-90+ yards to get TDs on the vast majority of our possessions. That factors into it too. I am almost certain the Steelers' offense probably has one of the worst average starting field positions in the league. We almost always are starting drives inside our own 20, and often inside our own 10.


no argument from me on any of that ....

my argument starts and stops with the term ( and its meaning ) of prehistoric football and that it can't win in this league in this era .....

It can , the Seahawks are doing it .....

if this is what Art ll wants his employees ( Colbert , Tomlin, Haley , and the players should be doing everything in their power to give it to him ) after all he is the one signing the checks ........

it is not Colbert's team , it is not Tomlin's team , it is not Haley's team it is Rooney's team ...

not much else can be said , and disagree all you like but at the end of the day GM's come and go , Coaches come and go , players come and go , but the ownership is going nowhere

[MrPgh]

no argument from me on any of that ....

my argument starts and stops with the term ( and its meaning ) of prehistoric football and that it can't win in this league in this era .....

It can , the Seahawks are doing it .....

No, the Seawhawks are actually scoring points. The Steelers vision of football is to grind out low-scoring wins.


if this is what Art ll wants his employees ( Colbert , Tomlin, Haley , and the players should be doing everything in their power to give it to him ) after all he is the one signing the checks ........

it is not Colbert's team , it is not Tomlin's team , it is not Haley's team it is Rooney's team ...

not much else can be said , and disagree all you like but at the end of the day GM's come and go , Coaches come and go , players come and go , but the ownership is going nowhere

That's the problem with the Steelers. Art II is not the owner Dan was nor does he have the football acumen. He just owns the team because of who daddy is. When owners meddle with their teams, bad things happen. We've seen it with the Cowboys, Raiders, and Redskins and we're now seeing it with the Steelers.

If Art II valued winning, he'd allow his GM and coaches to let the team play to their strengths, not try and re-create the team from the 70's. But he doesn't value winning, he just wants to be right. His ego will be the ruination of this team.

[Iron Steeler]

Fire Tomlin . Hire whiz . Keep Haley (because you don't want to start over again with the play book jargon with Ben ) let dick lebeau walk , promote Keith butler to defensive coordinator before we lose him to Arizona .

that would be my ideal coaching change situation

[MrPgh]

Fire Tomlin . Hire whiz . Keep Haley (because you don't want to start over again with the play book jargon with Ben ) let dick lebeau walk , promote Keith butler to defensive coordinator before we lose him to Arizona .

that would be my ideal coaching change situation

If the Steelers were run like a normal franchise, no one from the current coaching staff would be kept. Haley was a train wreck from the beginning and needs to be fired a year ago. If the Steelers are worried about playbook jargon with Ben then here's a simple solution: don't get a new OC that would ram a new playbook down Ben's throat without his input.

My fear about Butler being promoted is that he'll just run the same stale schemes that LeBeau is running now. This team doesn't need more of the same, it needs a new perspective and new philosophies.

[NCSteeler]

Because Whiz did such a bang up job building a perennial contender in the desert?

[Mistah Q]

Because Whiz did such a bang up job building a perennial contender in the desert?

He did, at least for a time, take a habitually broken franchise on a daring playoff run. It didn't last. But he was good in his last OC stint here... and sometimes people who area good coordinators are not suited for head coaching positions -- kind of like LeBeau. I wouldn't hire Whiz as a head coach, but for OC? Sure.

[bayz101]

Todd Haley.

[Dwinsgames]

No, the Seawhawks are actually scoring points. The Steelers vision of football is to grind out low-scoring wins.



That's the problem with the Steelers. Art II is not the owner Dan was nor does he have the football acumen. He just owns the team because of who daddy is. When owners meddle with their teams, bad things happen. We've seen it with the Cowboys, Raiders, and Redskins and we're now seeing it with the Steelers.

If Art II valued winning, he'd allow his GM and coaches to let the team play to their strengths, not try and re-create the team from the 70's. But he doesn't value winning, he just wants to be right. His ego will be the ruination of this team.

:cuckoo:

[MrPgh]

:cuckoo:

Sorry, I don't slobber over stat sheets. I watch games. The Seahawks are in no way comparable to the Steelers. Yeah they have a good running game and a good defense, but they're also very aggressive on both sides of the ball and take chances. The Steelers play a timid, chicken-shit scared style of football.

[Dwinsgames]

Sorry, I don't slobber over stat sheets. I watch games. .

so I guess you are the only person here that watches games . wow wouldn't have guessed that one , a common argument for someone that has no real argument ( seen it many many many times )



The Seahawks are in no way comparable to the Steelers.

who said they where ? I must have missed that post ....

I did however see it is what Art wants from this team ( oh yeah because I wrote it )


The Steelers play a timid, chicken-shit scared style of football.

sounds to me like maybe you are routing for the wrong team if you are that critical of the organization , their play style , their Coordinators , their owner


That's the problem with the Steelers. Art II is not the owner Dan was nor does he have the football acumen. He just owns the team because of who daddy is. When owners meddle with their teams, bad things happen. We've seen it with the Cowboys, Raiders, and Redskins and we're now seeing it with the Steelers.

If Art II valued winning, he'd allow his GM and coaches to let the team play to their strengths, not try and re-create the team from the 70's. But he doesn't value winning, he just wants to be right. His ego will be the ruination of this team.

Yea he sucks , since taking over in 2003 we have been to 3 SBs winning 2 of them ... The league needs to take the team away from his ass he is incapable of running the organization



2003 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2003_Pittsburgh_Steelers_season)
NFL (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2003_NFL_season)
AFC
North
3rd
6
10
0
.375




2004 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2004_Pittsburgh_Steelers_season)
NFL (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2004_NFL_season)
AFC
North
1st
15
1
0
.938
Won Divisional Playoffs (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2004%E2%80%9305_NFL_playoffs#AFC:_Pittsburgh_Steel ers_20.2C_New_York_Jets_17_.28OT.29) (Jets (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2004_New_York_Jets_season)) 20–17
Lost Conference Championship (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2004%E2%80%9305_NFL_playoffs#AFC:_New_England_Patr iots_41.2C_Pittsburgh_Steelers_27) (Patriots (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2004_New_England_Patriots_season)) 41–27
Bill Cowher (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Cowher) - Sporting News Coach of the Year (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Football_League_Coach_of_the_Year_Award#S porting_News_NFL_Coach_of_the_Year)
Ben Roethlisberger (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ben_Roethlisberger) - Offensive Rookie of the Year (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Football_League_Rookie_of_the_Year_Award)


2005 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2005_Pittsburgh_Steelers_season)
NFL (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2005_NFL_season)
AFC
North
2nd
11
5
0
.688
Won Wild Card Playoffs (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2005%E2%80%9306_NFL_playoffs#AFC:_Pittsburgh_Steel ers_31.2C_Cincinnati_Bengals_17) (Bengals (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2005_Cincinnati_Bengals_season)) 31–17
Won Divisional Playoffs (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2005%E2%80%9306_NFL_playoffs#AFC:_Pittsburgh_Steel ers_21.2C_Indianapolis_Colts_18) (Colts (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2005_Indianapolis_Colts_season)) 21–18
Won Conference Championship (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2005%E2%80%9306_NFL_playoffs#AFC:_Pittsburgh_Steel ers_34.2C_Denver_Broncos_17) (Broncos (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2005_Denver_Broncos_season)) 34–17
Won Super Bowl XL (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_Bowl_XL)(5) (Seahawks (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2005_Seattle_Seahawks_season)) 21-10
Hines Ward (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hines_Ward) - Super Bowl MVP (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_Bowl_Most_Valuable_Player_Award)


2006 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_Pittsburgh_Steelers_season)
NFL (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_NFL_season)
AFC
North
3rd
8
8
0
.500




2007 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_Pittsburgh_Steelers_season)
NFL (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_NFL_season)
AFC
North
1st
10
6
0
.625
Lost Wild Card Playoffs (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007%E2%80%9308_NFL_playoffs#AFC:_Jacksonville_Jag uars_31.2C_Pittsburgh_Steelers_29) (Jaguars (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_Jacksonville_Jaguars_season)) 31–29



2008 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Pittsburgh_Steelers_season)
NFL (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_NFL_season)
AFC
North
1st
12
4
0
.750
Won Divisional Playoffs (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008%E2%80%9309_NFL_playoffs#AFC:_Pittsburgh_Steel ers_35.2C_San_Diego_Chargers_24) (Chargers (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_San_Diego_Chargers_season)) 35–24
Won Conference Championship (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008%E2%80%9309_NFL_playoffs#AFC:_Pittsburgh_Steel ers_23.2C_Baltimore_Ravens_14) (Ravens (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Baltimore_Ravens_season)) 23–14
Won Super Bowl XLIII (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_Bowl_XLIII)(6) (Cardinals (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Arizona_Cardinals_season)) 27–23
James Harrison (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Harrison_%28American_football%29) - Defensive Player of the Year (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Football_League_Defensive_Player_of_the_Y ear_Award)[4] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pittsburgh_Steelers_seasons#cite_note-4)
Santonio Holmes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Santonio_Holmes) - Super Bowl MVP (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_Bowl_Most_Valuable_Player_Award)
Mike Tomlin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Tomlin) - Motorola NFL Coach of the Year (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Football_League_Coach_of_the_Year_Award)[5] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pittsburgh_Steelers_seasons#cite_note-5)


2009 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_Pittsburgh_Steelers_season)
NFL (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_NFL_season)
AFC
North
3rd
9
7
0
.563




2010 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_Pittsburgh_Steelers_season)
NFL (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_NFL_season)
AFC
North
1st
12
4
0
.750
Won Divisional Playoffs (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010-11_NFL_playoffs#AFC:_Pittsburgh_Steelers_31.2C_Bal timore_Ravens_24) (Ravens (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_Baltimore_Ravens_season)) 31–24
Won Conference Championship (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010%E2%80%9311_NFL_playoffs#AFC:_Pittsburgh_Steel ers_24.2C_New_York_Jets_19) (Jets (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_New_York_Jets_season)) 24–19
Lost Super Bowl XLV (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_Bowl_XLV) (Packers (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_Green_Bay_Packers_season)) 31–25
Troy Polamalu (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troy_Polamalu) - Defensive Player of the Year (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Football_League_Defensive_Player_of_the_Y ear_Award)


2011 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Pittsburgh_Steelers_season)
NFL (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_NFL_season)
AFC
North
2nd
12
4
0
.750
Lost Wild Card Playoffs (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010%E2%80%9311_NFL_playoffs#AFC:_Denver_Broncos_2 9.2C_Pittsburgh_Steelers_23) (Broncos (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Denver_Broncos_season)) 29–23 (OT)



2012 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_Pittsburgh_Steelers_season)
NFL (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_NFL_season)
AFC
North
3rd
8
8
0
.500







As a side note I find it laughable you put Al Davis in the group , sure he stunk once he became senile but he ran one of the most successful organizations in all of sports up until that time and did more for the league than there is room in this forum to talk about in one day

[salamander]

Why are people STILL so damn enamored with Ken Whisenhunt?

[SteelerFanInStl]

I don't want anyone internal hired for OC or anyone who has previously worked for the Steelers. They need to go outside of the organization to find the right guy and don't hire a guy just because he has Pittsburgh or Steeler ties.

[Dwinsgames]

I don't want anyone internal hired for OC or anyone who has previously worked for the Steelers. They need to go outside of the organization to find the right guy and don't hire a guy just because he has Pittsburgh or Steeler ties.

I have no issue with it being someone with ties to the Burgh or even the team ...

I have a problem with that being the main factor of why he was hired instead of a bonus or tie breaker with two equal candidates .....

[MrPgh]

so I guess you are the only person here that watches games . wow wouldn't have guessed that one , a common argument for someone that has no real argument ( seen it many many many times )

I guess the thread about how many times Ben throws didn't teach you a lesson.




who said they where ? I must have missed that post ....

I did however see it is what Art wants from this team ( oh yeah because I wrote it )



sounds to me like maybe you are routing for the wrong team if you are that critical of the organization , their play style , their Coordinators , their owner

Because some of us aren't blind cheerleaders.



Yea he sucks , since taking over in 2003 we have been to 3 SBs winning 2 of them ... The league needs to take the team away from his ass he is incapable of running the organization



2003 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2003_Pittsburgh_Steelers_season)
NFL (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2003_NFL_season)
AFC
North
3rd
6
10
0
.375




2004 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2004_Pittsburgh_Steelers_season)
NFL (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2004_NFL_season)
AFC
North
1st
15
1
0
.938
Won Divisional Playoffs (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2004%E2%80%9305_NFL_playoffs#AFC:_Pittsburgh_Steel ers_20.2C_New_York_Jets_17_.28OT.29) (Jets (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2004_New_York_Jets_season)) 20–17
Lost Conference Championship (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2004%E2%80%9305_NFL_playoffs#AFC:_New_England_Patr iots_41.2C_Pittsburgh_Steelers_27) (Patriots (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2004_New_England_Patriots_season)) 41–27
Bill Cowher (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Cowher) - Sporting News Coach of the Year (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Football_League_Coach_of_the_Year_Award#S porting_News_NFL_Coach_of_the_Year)
Ben Roethlisberger (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ben_Roethlisberger) - Offensive Rookie of the Year (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Football_League_Rookie_of_the_Year_Award)


2005 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2005_Pittsburgh_Steelers_season)
NFL (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2005_NFL_season)
AFC
North
2nd
11
5
0
.688
Won Wild Card Playoffs (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2005%E2%80%9306_NFL_playoffs#AFC:_Pittsburgh_Steel ers_31.2C_Cincinnati_Bengals_17) (Bengals (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2005_Cincinnati_Bengals_season)) 31–17
Won Divisional Playoffs (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2005%E2%80%9306_NFL_playoffs#AFC:_Pittsburgh_Steel ers_21.2C_Indianapolis_Colts_18) (Colts (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2005_Indianapolis_Colts_season)) 21–18
Won Conference Championship (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2005%E2%80%9306_NFL_playoffs#AFC:_Pittsburgh_Steel ers_34.2C_Denver_Broncos_17) (Broncos (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2005_Denver_Broncos_season)) 34–17
Won Super Bowl XL (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_Bowl_XL)(5) (Seahawks (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2005_Seattle_Seahawks_season)) 21-10
Hines Ward (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hines_Ward) - Super Bowl MVP (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_Bowl_Most_Valuable_Player_Award)


2006 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_Pittsburgh_Steelers_season)
NFL (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_NFL_season)
AFC
North
3rd
8
8
0
.500




2007 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_Pittsburgh_Steelers_season)
NFL (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_NFL_season)
AFC
North
1st
10
6
0
.625
Lost Wild Card Playoffs (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007%E2%80%9308_NFL_playoffs#AFC:_Jacksonville_Jag uars_31.2C_Pittsburgh_Steelers_29) (Jaguars (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_Jacksonville_Jaguars_season)) 31–29



2008 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Pittsburgh_Steelers_season)
NFL (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_NFL_season)
AFC
North
1st
12
4
0
.750
Won Divisional Playoffs (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008%E2%80%9309_NFL_playoffs#AFC:_Pittsburgh_Steel ers_35.2C_San_Diego_Chargers_24) (Chargers (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_San_Diego_Chargers_season)) 35–24
Won Conference Championship (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008%E2%80%9309_NFL_playoffs#AFC:_Pittsburgh_Steel ers_23.2C_Baltimore_Ravens_14) (Ravens (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Baltimore_Ravens_season)) 23–14
Won Super Bowl XLIII (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_Bowl_XLIII)(6) (Cardinals (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Arizona_Cardinals_season)) 27–23
James Harrison (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Harrison_%28American_football%29) - Defensive Player of the Year (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Football_League_Defensive_Player_of_the_Y ear_Award)[4] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pittsburgh_Steelers_seasons#cite_note-4)
Santonio Holmes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Santonio_Holmes) - Super Bowl MVP (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_Bowl_Most_Valuable_Player_Award)
Mike Tomlin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Tomlin) - Motorola NFL Coach of the Year (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Football_League_Coach_of_the_Year_Award)[5] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pittsburgh_Steelers_seasons#cite_note-5)


2009 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_Pittsburgh_Steelers_season)
NFL (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_NFL_season)
AFC
North
3rd
9
7
0
.563




2010 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_Pittsburgh_Steelers_season)
NFL (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_NFL_season)
AFC
North
1st
12
4
0
.750
Won Divisional Playoffs (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010-11_NFL_playoffs#AFC:_Pittsburgh_Steelers_31.2C_Bal timore_Ravens_24) (Ravens (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_Baltimore_Ravens_season)) 31–24
Won Conference Championship (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010%E2%80%9311_NFL_playoffs#AFC:_Pittsburgh_Steel ers_24.2C_New_York_Jets_19) (Jets (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_New_York_Jets_season)) 24–19
Lost Super Bowl XLV (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_Bowl_XLV) (Packers (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_Green_Bay_Packers_season)) 31–25
Troy Polamalu (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troy_Polamalu) - Defensive Player of the Year (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Football_League_Defensive_Player_of_the_Y ear_Award)


2011 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Pittsburgh_Steelers_season)
NFL (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_NFL_season)
AFC
North
2nd
12
4
0
.750
Lost Wild Card Playoffs (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010%E2%80%9311_NFL_playoffs#AFC:_Denver_Broncos_2 9.2C_Pittsburgh_Steelers_23) (Broncos (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Denver_Broncos_season)) 29–23 (OT)



2012 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_Pittsburgh_Steelers_season)
NFL (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_NFL_season)
AFC
North
3rd
8
8
0
.500







As a side note I find it laughable you put Al Davis in the group , sure he stunk once he became senile but he ran one of the most successful organizations in all of sports up until that time and did more for the league than there is room in this forum to talk about in one day

Art II has run the team since 2003, but Dan was still around up until 2009 before he went over to Ireland. Are you naive enough to believe Dan had zero influence on how the team was run between 2003 and 2009? When Dan was around coordinators weren't "retired", the Steelers cap wasn't a mess, there was humility amongst most of the players, and coaches were allowed to run schemes they felt put the team in a position to succeed.

How many team presidents/owners talk about run/pass ratio? If Jerry Jones did that yinzer nation would be laughing their asses off at his meddling. If Art II does it, he must be right because his last name is Rooney! The guy is nowhere close to being in the class of owner as his father was. Really, Art II is just a bum that won a sperm lotto.

Since Art II made his mandate to get back to "Steeler football" during the 2012 offseason the Steelers hold a record of 13-15. That would lead most people to think Art II's direction is the wrong direction for the team, no?

[Bluecoat96]

What about Randy Fichter? Ben loves him, and if I'm not mistaken, he had a very successful tenure at Memphis as the o-coordinator. Granted, it was a spread offense, but given our current "success" at running the ball, he might just be what the doctor ordered. I think it would fit our current personnel quite well.

Just my 2 cents.

[Dwinsgames]

I guess the thread about how many times Ben throws didn't teach you a lesson.





Because some of us aren't blind cheerleaders.




Art II has run the team since 2003, but Dan was still around up until 2009 before he went over to Ireland. Are you naive enough to believe Dan had zero influence on how the team was run between 2003 and 2009? When Dan was around coordinators weren't "retired", the Steelers cap wasn't a mess, there was humility amongst most of the players, and coaches were allowed to run schemes they felt put the team in a position to succeed.

How many team presidents/owners talk about run/pass ratio? If Jerry Jones did that yinzer nation would be laughing their asses off at his meddling. If Art II does it, he must be right because his last name is Rooney! The guy is nowhere close to being in the class of owner as his father was. Really, Art II is just a bum that won a sperm lotto.

Since Art II made his mandate to get back to "Steeler football" during the 2012 offseason the Steelers hold a record of 13-15. That would lead most people to think Art II's direction is the wrong direction for the team, no?

GTFO with your insulting manner , GTFO with you calling the team owner the winner in a sperm lotto ...


you're not worth my time ....

30 something posts with half of them insulting

/ignored

[Seven]

you mean like the one the 10-1 seahawks run , proving a strong Def. and a good running game can permit you to be a dominant team in this league in 2013 ....

Russell Wilson has something like 2500 yards and 20 touchdowns...

[Dwinsgames]

Russell Wilson has something like 2500 yards and 20 touchdowns...

2,362 headed into tonight .... or 18th in the league but 5th of starters in yards per drop back at 8.6

[Seven]

2,362 headed into tonight .... or 18th in the league but 5th of starters in yards per drop back at 8.6

18th in the league is around middle of the pack. Marshawn Lynch had less than 1,000 yards and 10 touchdowns heading into tonight. The Seahawks definitely have a solid running attack and a good defense, but let's not pretend they are where they are without the quarterback. This isn't the 04 or 05 Steelers where Ben passed for around 2500 in all sixteen games of the season. Even in Seattle, the run compliments the pass. Not the other way around.

[Mistah Q]

How about we get on topic fellas... lol

[Dwinsgames]

18th in the league is around middle of the pack. Marshawn Lynch had less than 1,000 yards and 10 touchdowns heading into tonight. The Seahawks definitely have a solid running attack and a good defense, but let's not pretend they are where they are without the quarterback. This isn't the 04 or 05 Steelers where Ben passed for around 2500 in all sixteen games of the season. Even in Seattle, the run compliments the pass. Not the other way around.

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tabSeq=0&season=2013&seasonType=REG&d-447263-n=1&d-447263-o=2&d-447263-p=1&statisticCategory=PASSING&conference=null&d-447263-s=PASSING_ATTEMPTS

21 other QBS have more attempts this season .... going into tonight he only had 275 attempts ( Ben per example has 461 and Stafford has 500) make of it what you will

[Devilsdancefloor]

What about Randy Fichter? Ben loves him, and if I'm not mistaken, he had a very successful tenure at Memphis as the o-coordinator. Granted, it was a spread offense, but given our current "success" at running the ball, he might just be what the doctor ordered. I think it would fit our current personnel quite well.

Just my 2 cents.
He would be very good i would bet plus he is a boilermaker :P

[Mistah Q]

What about Randy Fichter? Ben loves him, and if I'm not mistaken, he had a very successful tenure at Memphis as the o-coordinator. Granted, it was a spread offense, but given our current "success" at running the ball, he might just be what the doctor ordered. I think it would fit our current personnel quite well.

Just my 2 cents.

Not a bad thought at all. I don't dig nearly as deep in keeping up with football as I used to so it's always refreshing to hear about talent hiding in different places.

[SteelerFanInStl]

I have no issue with it being someone with ties to the Burgh or even the team ...

I have a problem with that being the main factor of why he was hired instead of a bonus or tie breaker with two equal candidates .....

It seems like they've been using that as a primary consideration with recent hires considering the forgettable credentials of the coaches hired. We've seen the results of that.

[Seven]

When was the last time we really had a RB develop here?

RBs we drafted with prime billing:
Sid Thornton
Greg Hawthorne
Walter Abercrombie
Tim Worley
Bam Morris
Amos Zereoue
Rashard Mendenhall
Le'Veon Bell


You forgot about William Shakespeare.

[fansince'76]

What about Randy Fichter? Ben loves him...

Well, according to many, that'll be a big strike against him...

[Craic]

again the Seahawks seem to be doing ok at 10-1

I'll be shocked if they make it to the SB. The fact is, the three yards and a cloud of mediocrity football will get you past the okay teams, even get you past the good teams. But it falls short against teams that are great. And every year, whether it is teams that get hot, or teams that are just that good, by the time you're in the divisional or conferenance championships, all you have left are teams that are great at that point in time, which means if you're a run first team, you lose. Period.

Why? Because now you're playing another team with a defense that can stop the run. You're also playing another team that can put points up on the board. We've seen it over and over. It wasn't until we had a QB that could drive the team to win games that we actually won a SB. When did the Ravens win a SB? Only when they had decent or good QBs that could throw the ball.

Players are bigger, faster, and the game is a lot more complicated. That three yards mentality will get you to the playoffs, but it will not get you Lombardis. Period. You have to be able to throw the ball, throw it often, and throw it well.

EDIT: If this is correct
18th in the league is around middle of the pack. Marshawn Lynch had less than 1,000 yards and 10 touchdowns heading into tonight. The Seahawks definitely have a solid running attack and a good defense, but let's not pretend they are where they are without the quarterback. This isn't the 04 or 05 Steelers where Ben passed for around 2500 in all sixteen games of the season. Even in Seattle, the run compliments the pass. Not the other way around.
Then the Seahawks just might make it, but only because they have a balanced offense.

[Seven]

EDIT: If this is correct
Then the Seahawks just might make it, but only because they have a balanced offense.

Consider this. Russell Wilson has 22 touchdowns to 6 interceptions with a 65% completion rate for 2672 yards. Marshawn Lynch has 970 yards and 9 touchdowns with a 4.3 average. Decent rushing season, but the Seahawks are not quite the run first offense most people perceive them to be.

[Dwinsgames]

Consider this. Russell Wilson has 22 touchdowns to 6 interceptions with a 65% completion rate for 2672 yards. Marshawn Lynch has 970 yards and 9 touchdowns with a 4.3 average. Decent rushing season, but the Seahawks are not quite the run first offense most people perceive them to be.


Lynch 225 rushing attempts ( 3rd in league ) , Wilson 80 rushing attempts Turbin another 59 ... 18 more from rookie Christian Michael , Coleman 2 more , and 1 by the FB Robinson 385 rushes ( qb included in that mix )

passing 305 total .... ( including last nights blowout of the Saints ) which I would include as one of the better teams in the league

385 rushes .... 305 passes .... seems slanted towards the run to me 57% Rush vs 43% pass

the numbers say they are a run first team

but hey dont let facts stand in the way of a good argument :)


sorry for the hijack Q , back on point


I would like to toss Mark Whipple's name into the hat

[Iron Steeler]

Because Whiz did such a bang up job building a perennial contender in the desert?

NC this is how I feel. I think Tomlin has incredible leadership skills but his football knowledge and play calling is not up to par.

i say whiz because he is familiar with the steelers and with Todd Haley as well so it's a perfect fit. Ya I feel like whiz had the chargers rolling pretty good at the beginning of the season but we all know head case Philip rivers isn't Ben roethlisberger. Imagine if he was callin plays with Ben and the weapon we got.

and that's why it's so frustrating to watch because I feel like our talent is there just we aren't usin them the right way

[MrPgh]

I'll be shocked if they make it to the SB. The fact is, the three yards and a cloud of mediocrity football will get you past the okay teams, even get you past the good teams. But it falls short against teams that are great. And every year, whether it is teams that get hot, or teams that are just that good, by the time you're in the divisional or conferenance championships, all you have left are teams that are great at that point in time, which means if you're a run first team, you lose. Period.

Why? Because now you're playing another team with a defense that can stop the run. You're also playing another team that can put points up on the board. We've seen it over and over. It wasn't until we had a QB that could drive the team to win games that we actually won a SB. When did the Ravens win a SB? Only when they had decent or good QBs that could throw the ball.

Players are bigger, faster, and the game is a lot more complicated. That three yards mentality will get you to the playoffs, but it will not get you Lombardis. Period. You have to be able to throw the ball, throw it often, and throw it well.

EDIT: If this is correct
Then the Seahawks just might make it, but only because they have a balanced offense.

The Seahawks aren't three-yards-and-a-cloud-of-dust. They're a very aggressive team that isn't afraid to take shots down field on offense and jump pass routes on defense. Nothing at all like the Steelers.

Last night against the Saints a lot of their points came from passing down field early. Then when they had a big lead they were able to run the ball. Compare that to the Steelers who came out with 5 straight runs against Baltimore. The Seahawks play to win, the Steelers play not to lose.

As for the next OC, I don't care so much who it is as long as he realizes Ben is the offense's best player and he's at his best in the no-huddle. Haley is too much of an egomaniac and an Art II puppet.

[NCSteeler]

I vote Ben for the next OC, couldn't be much worse then what we got. Let him go all Bradshaw on em and toss it around.

[Psycho Ward 86]

Russell Wilson has something like 2500 yards and 20 touchdowns...

yards < efficiency

efficiency that we have lacked for a long time

and if you looked at some of the early/mid season games where the seahawks had a bunch of O-line injuries and he had to run for his life to survive, he still played well. Not to mention an already mediocre wide receiving corp thats missing its top 2 receivers on top of that. i had my doubts about him last season because of his great O-line and help from arguably the 2nd best RB in the league, but im convinced now. Lynch sucked last night and Wilson still excelled against a great saints pass defense, which was supposed to be the saints' strength.

of course im biased in all of this because im a Badger myself

U rah rah Wisconsin!

[Craic]

Consider this. Russell Wilson has 22 touchdowns to 6 interceptions with a 65% completion rate for 2672 yards. Marshawn Lynch has 970 yards and 9 touchdowns with a 4.3 average. Decent rushing season, but the Seahawks are not quite the run first offense most people perceive them to be.

Yeah, I realized that after I posted, which is why I put that in there. It would seem that BALANCE is the key.

[Dwinsgames]

Yeah, I realized that after I posted, which is why I put that in there. It would seem that BALANCE is the key.



385 rushes .... 305 passes .... seems slanted towards the run to me 57% Rush vs 43% pass note quite balanced

[MrPgh]

Yeah, I realized that after I posted, which is why I put that in there. It would seem that BALANCE is the key.

Need to put that in context though. The Seahawks aren't coming out playing three yards and a cloud of dust. Their offense goes vertical and scores a lot of points. When you do that, it's easy to sit back and run the ball later on in the game.

[Dwinsgames]

don't let some of these posters pull shit out of mid air and try and pass it off as the truth , investigate it ...

Seattle is NOT a high flying Offense , not even close , that is not to say they can not hurt you by passing because they can ....


examples to the truth ( and not the fiction being fed by some )

Week 2 ) vs San Fran ..... 8 completions the entire ball game 1 TD 1 int 142 yards passing ......

week 3 ) vs Jacksonville 14 completions 202 yards passing .....

week 4 ) vs Houston 12 completions 123 yards ......

week 5 ) vs indy 15 completions 210 yards ....

week 8) vs stl 10 completions 139 yards ....

week 11 ) vs Vikes 13 completions .....

he has thrown for over 250 yards just 3 times thus far this season ( including last nights game )

he has put the ball in the air 30 times or more just 3 times all year as well .....

6 of the 11 games thus far he has completed 15 or less passes

so to make claims of anything other than the Seahawks being a run first . run driven offense is just complete bullshit they have not put up a record of 10-1 by throwing the football all over the playground and anyone that tries to convince you of such is blowing smoke up your ass

http://www.nfl.com/player/russellwilson/2532975/gamelogs

[Dwinsgames]

:focus:

Bill O'Brien
Ray Brown
Dave Magazu
Whiz
Fears of Kirby Wilson ( but nobody thus far wants him )
Keep Haley
Randy Fichter
Mark Whipple
Ben

[Craic]

385 rushes .... 305 passes .... seems slanted towards the run to me 57% Rush vs 43% pass note quite balanced


And if that's the case, they won't win the SB. So why go back to a style of offense that's been proven to fail in the big game? No run first, run always, depend on the run offense has won the SB in years. And now, the 2000 Ravens don't count, because in 2/3rds of their games, they passed for more yards than they rushed. They also had a total of 504 attempts passing, and 511 attempts rushing. Thus, they were a BALANCED offense. Funny thing about that as well, in the SB, they PASSED the ball in the first half, and in part of the third quarter. Only when they got the lead did they go run, run, run.

In other words, balance.

Before that, you had great QB's taking the game in hand. Sure, they had some great running backs too, but it was a dual attack. The Rams, broccos, brocos, packers, cowboys, SF, Cowboys, cowboys. That goes bak to 92.

Still haven't seen a run first, run always offense. So that's what now, 22 years at least since the style of football you want has won the big game. Probably have to go back to Franco Harris and the 1974 SB to see a true run first, run always, 3 yards and a cloud of mediocrity offense win the SB.

You'd think that four failures in the AFCCG would be enough of a wake up call for this fanbase. I guess not.

[Dwinsgames]

And if that's the case, they won't win the SB.

there is no if that is the case , it is the case go look it up but I already provided you with the breakdown 385 rushes , 305 passes ......

again its not that they cant beat you throwing it because they can ... normally they do not ....

reminds me of the 2004-2005 steelers in the pass /rush department with a strong Def ....

same basic formula .......

[Seven]

385 rushes .... 305 passes .... seems slanted towards the run to me 57% Rush vs 43% pass note quite balanced

I think you're missing the point. All I'm saying is, without the ridiculous efficiency of Wilson and the passing game, they wouldn't have the solid running game they do. That running game alone isn't enough to win them anything. Take the pass away and they are a poor offense. You can't win without a stellar passing attack. Just because the Seahawks are a running team by attempt percentage, doesn't mean the running game is more valuable than the pass. If you think they're winning football games because they are running 57% of the times, you're drinking kool aid. It's the same error you make when evaluating Ben's pass attempts. The Seahawks are able to run 57% of the time because Russell Wilson has thrown 22 touchdowns to 6 interceptions. Not the other way around.

[Seven]

Fears of Kirby Wilson ( but nobody thus far wants him )


Why is everyone afraid of Wilson?

Honestly, if it were up to me, I'd just give the offense to Ben. The Rooney's will never do that, but I don't see why he couldn't handle it. Use the systems you already have in place from Arians & Haley. He wouldn't have to build a playbook, just manage the one the team already has. I honestly have faith he could pull coordinator duties off while still playing, with a coach in the fold to assist him. I don't think that's naïve.

[Texasteel]

Some teams use the pass to set up the run, some use the run to set up the pass. Just my opinion but, From what I have seen the seahawks look to be the latter.

[Seven]

Some teams use the pass to set up the run, some use the run to set up the pass. Just my opinion but, From what I have seen the seahawks look to be the latter.

Perhaps, but without balance, neither is possible. Not to the level of success Seattle's offense executes with, at least. If the passing game wasn't as potent and efficient as it has been this season, every defense they face would focus solely on stopping the run. So even if in theory the run does set up the pass, if the passing game wasn't as dangerous as it is, the running game would not be where it is. From all indications I see, they are a balanced offense with effective rushing and passing attacks. But I think the passing game could stand on its own if a game necessitated it. I do not think the same of the running game. If Wilson was missing most of his throws, I think the Seahawks lose. If Lynch was having a poor day running, I think they could still win. That's why I don't buy the argument that old school ball works to the extent that has been suggested here. I don't think you can win in this league with a run first offense if your passing game isn't also excellent.

[MrPgh]

I think you're missing the point. All I'm saying is, without the ridiculous efficiency of Wilson and the passing game, they wouldn't have the solid running game they do. That running game alone isn't enough to win them anything. Take the pass away and they are a poor offense. You can't win without a stellar passing attack. Just because the Seahawks are a running team by attempt percentage, doesn't mean the running game is more valuable than the pass. If you think they're winning football games because they are running 57% of the times, you're drinking kool aid. It's the same error you make when evaluating Ben's pass attempts. The Seahawks are able to run 57% of the time because Russell Wilson has thrown 22 touchdowns to 6 interceptions. Not the other way around.

See the Broncos/Patriots game. Manning threw for about 150 yards and the Broncos ran for about 250 yards. If running is so much more important, why did the Broncos lose let alone blow a 24-point lead? Some people only know how to read stat sheets and can't put anything into context. Fantasy leagues and stats sheets have ruined how people perceive games.

As for the OC, don't really care who it is. He just needs to realize Ben is the offense's best player and doesn't handcuff him or wait until the team is down multiple possessions to let him run the no-huddle.

[Dwinsgames]

Perhaps, but without balance, neither is possible. Not to the level of success Seattle's offense executes with, at least. If the passing game wasn't as potent and efficient as it has been this season, every defense they face would focus solely on stopping the run. So even if in theory the run does set up the pass, if the passing game wasn't as dangerous as it is, the running game would not be where it is. From all indications I see, they are a balanced offense with effective rushing and passing attacks. But I think the passing game could stand on its own if a game necessitated it. I do not think the same of the running game. If Wilson was missing most of his throws, I think the Seahawks lose. If Lynch was having a poor day running, I think they could still win. That's why I don't buy the argument that old school ball works to the extent that has been suggested here. I don't think you can win in this league with a run first offense if your passing game isn't also excellent.

look no further than week 2 of this season to blow your theory out of the water ....

Wilson was 8-19 (not very efficient ) 142 yards 1 td , 1 int and was sacked 4 times and fumbled once ... Yet they blew out the 49ers 29-3 ...

They can win with a bad day at QB , granted no team can win consistently with that sort of QB play but here and there you can get by with it as they more than did ....

nobody is suggesting a run run run offense either but a balanced attack is still a viable scheme and seattle is less than balanced and slanted towards the run and may be the best team in the league right now ( certainly one of the tougher divisions and sit atop of it at 10-1 ) ....

[Seven]

They can win with a bad day at QB , granted no team can win consistently with that sort of QB play but here and there you can get by with it as they more than did ...

Yeah, exactly.

[zulater]

Unless the off the field business is something the Rooney's can't tolerate, like it or not, Haley's job is safe. The last four games have saved his job, and the remaining four wont alter anything because the line's injuries are a valid excuse/ reason for the offense to under-perform the rest of the way home. Whether you believe the turnaround is due to Ben taking control with the no huddle doesn't matter. They're still Haley's formations, plays, and schemes.

[MrPgh]

Unless the off the field business is something the Rooney's can't tolerate, like it or not, Haley's job is safe. The last four games have saved his job, and the remaining four wont alter anything because the line's injuries are a valid excuse/ reason for the offense to under-perform the rest of the way home. Whether you believe the turnaround is due to Ben taking control with the no huddle doesn't matter. They're still Haley's formations, plays, and schemes.

All that would do would confirm the Steelers no longer see winning as the top priority. Being right is now the top priority.

[Texasteel]

Perhaps, but without balance, neither is possible. Not to the level of success Seattle's offense executes with, at least. If the passing game wasn't as potent and efficient as it has been this season, every defense they face would focus solely on stopping the run. So even if in theory the run does set up the pass, if the passing game wasn't as dangerous as it is, the running game would not be where it is. From all indications I see, they are a balanced offense with effective rushing and passing attacks. But I think the passing game could stand on its own if a game necessitated it. I do not think the same of the running game. If Wilson was missing most of his throws, I think the Seahawks lose. If Lynch was having a poor day running, I think they could still win. That's why I don't buy the argument that old school ball works to the extent that has been suggested here. I don't think you can win in this league with a run first offense if your passing game isn't also excellent.

You can tell if a team is a considered a running team or a passing team by watching the other teams defense. I looks to me that teams, when they play the seahawks normally play for the run first. This in itself makes the passing game come a little bit easier. There will be more man on man coverage, and more holes in the defenses back field. Wilson has been doing a good job of taking advantage of the advantages the defense has been giving him. I don't think he is a great QB, but he is a good one, and a good one can do a great job if the defense has to concentrate on a great running game. We have a great QB, IMO, and if we can combine that with a great running game there would be no stopping us on offence. I guess it comes down to the old question, what came first the chicken or the egg, but to tell you the truth you can't have either without the other one.

One other thing it all comes down to is blocking, and even with the improvement we have made with that we need to keep improving. That is one reason I keep hammering on getting more and better linemen on this team. We all see this differently. Who's right or wrong, I can't honestly say, but I suspect it's someplace in the middle.

[one side only]

I have no issue with it being someone with ties to the Burgh or even the team ...

I have a problem with that being the main factor of why he was hired instead of a bonus or tie breaker with two equal candidates .....

Todd Haley was the best ball boy in the history of the franchise. Nobody else even comes close.

[MrPgh]

You can tell if a team is a considered a running team or a passing team by watching the other teams defense. I looks to me that teams, when they play the seahawks normally play for the run first. This in itself makes the passing game come a little bit easier. There will be more man on man coverage, and more holes in the defenses back field. Wilson has been doing a good job of taking advantage of the advantages the defense has been giving him. I don't think he is a great QB, but he is a good one, and a good one can do a great job if the defense has to concentrate on a great running game. We have a great QB, IMO, and if we can combine that with a great running game there would be no stopping us on offence. I guess it comes down to the old question, what came first the chicken or the egg, but to tell you the truth you can't have either without the other one.

One other thing it all comes down to is blocking, and even with the improvement we have made with that we need to keep improving. That is one reason I keep hammering on getting more and better linemen on this team. We all see this differently. Who's right or wrong, I can't honestly say, but I suspect it's someplace in the middle.

The problem I see with the Steelers is that at times (like the beginning of the Baltimore game) is that they run the ball just for the sake of running the ball. It's like they're in this mentality where "We're the Steelers! We run the ball!" when right now that isn't their strength and they just aren't very good at it. Right now their best weapon on offense is the no-huddle. They should have been going with that all season until it fails them, but instead the Steelers have tried to be a team they just aren't built to be and frankly, doesn't lend itself towards winning in this era of the NFL.

The Steelers want to run the ball to control the clock. They believe that even if the offense isn't scoring points, the defense will be fresher and better and they'll avoid getting into a shootout and will be able to grind out a low-scoring win. Except that hasn't been the case. This Steeler defense sucks and to win games the offense needs to score points. The Steelers may not want to play that way, but if they want to be a contending team again then they have no choice. It's about the Steelers willingness to finally let go of the past and embrace the modern era.

[Mistah Q]

Todd Haley was the best ball boy in the history of the franchise. Nobody else even comes close.

To be fair he engineered a very good Cardinals offense, then had some success as Chiefs head coach - the '08 Chiefs were what, 2-14 in 2008. In 2010 he won the division and was on track to do so in 2011 until Cassell went on the IR.

And he's not been that bad here. I can't think of a team, any team, in all my life, that has had as many O-line problems as we have the past couple seasons.

[MrPgh]

To be fair he engineered a very good Cardinals offense, then had some success as Chiefs head coach - the '08 Chiefs were what, 2-14 in 2008. In 2010 he won the division and was on track to do so in 2011 until Cassell went on the IR.

And he's not been that bad here. I can't think of a team, any team, in all my life, that has had as many O-line problems as we have the past couple seasons.

He had a good 2008 with the Cardinals, but ever since then he's been a train wreck where ever he's gone. Then again, I don't think the Cardinals owner dictated to Haley what kind of offense he wanted.

Also, Arians had o-line problems here too and that was never an excuse for him. Why is it an excuse for Haley? The Steelers have been 13-15 since the hiring of Haley. I'm really sick of hearing about how it's all the o-line considering they were in the playoffs with crap o-lines under Arians. If there's one excuse that works in Haley's favor, it's that Art II is pulling his strings.

[Mistah Q]

Can you seriously compare the slew of O-line injuries this season and last to anything Arians had to deal with? Essex, Okobi, Kemoeatu, Hartwig, On-and-off Marvel... hell that looks like a dream compared to what's going on today.

Nonetheless I never said Haley needed excuses. I think he's done well despite the ridiculous O-line injuries. The Ravens have the top red zone defense in the league and we scored on them three times there - even more but a few were negated :chuckle: We hung 31 on the Pats (too bad our Defense pretended not to be there), 37 on the Lions, really we haven't had a terrible offensive showing since week 2. Although with the latest slew of injuries, I won't be surprised if that changes. You are right that we're trying to run first without necessarily having the right personnel to do that, and that perhaps if we set up the run with the pass that would work better for us. You're not right that doing it the other way is prehistoric, or that Art is some kind of idiot for wanting a running team. It's on coaching and talent evaluation to make sure the team has the kind of character that ownership is interested in, and they're failing at the current time.

But what this thread is about is O-line candidates, and if you keep up with these digressions you're going on ignore. Thread hasn't been on topic since I started it... damn.

I for one don't think Haley is one of our problems but I recognize that he's the most likely to go, so I want us to start thinking about who can be tapped to replace him.

[Hawkman]

He had a good 2008 with the Cardinals, but ever since then he's been a train wreck where ever he's gone. Then again, I don't think the Cardinals owner dictated to Haley what kind of offense he wanted.

Also, Arians had o-line problems here too and that was never an excuse for him. Why is it an excuse for Haley? The Steelers have been 13-15 since the hiring of Haley. I'm really sick of hearing about how it's all the o-line considering they were in the playoffs with crap o-lines under Arians. If there's one excuse that works in Haley's favor, it's that Art II is pulling his strings.

Are you here just to pick fights??? You really think Haley alone is the reason we are 13-15 the last two years. The offense was doing a great job last year once they got the system down. Ben was on track to have one of his best years, then he got hurt. Then Lefty got hurt.
This year......Have you seen our defense??? We aren't ranked above 6th in any defensive category.
...and what's with all the Art II bashing.

If all you are here to do is pick fights, I can recommend a couple other boards that would be much better suited for you.

[MrPgh]

Are you here just to pick fights??? You really think Haley alone is the reason we are 13-15 the last two years. The offense was doing a great job last year once they got the system down. Ben was on track to have one of his best years, then he got hurt. Then Lefty got hurt.
This year......Have you seen our defense??? We aren't ranked above 6th in any defensive category.
...and what's with all the Art II bashing.

If all you are here to do is pick fights, I can recommend a couple other boards that would be much better suited for you.

It fair to say Haley is a big reason why the Steelers have been 13-15. He knows Ben in the no-huddle is a strength of this offense, but he's been holding back until the Steelers are down multiple possessions for much of his tenure as Steelers OC. As for what the offense did last year, I think you're badly overrating it. Look at the teams they beat last year. A lot of mediocrity in that bunch. Really no signature victory to write home about.

As for picking fights, only one poster has openly disapproved of my posts for the most part. I find many of the posters here to be very informed and good to carry on conversations with about the team. As for Art II, is he sacred? He's at the core of most of the Steelers current problems. If all you wish to see is someone waiving black and gold pom-poms and being a blind homer, I can recommend a couple other boards that would be much better suited for you.

[Hawkman]

It fair to say Haley is a big reason why the Steelers have been 13-15. He knows Ben in the no-huddle is a strength of this offense, but he's been holding back until the Steelers are down multiple possessions for much of his tenure as Steelers OC. As for what the offense did last year, I think you're badly overrating it. Look at the teams they beat last year. A lot of mediocrity in that bunch. Really no signature victory to write home about.

As for picking fights, only one poster has openly disapproved of my posts for the most part. I find many of the posters here to be very informed and good to carry on conversations with about the team. As for Art II, is he sacred? He's at the core of most of the Steelers current problems. If all you wish to see is someone waiving black and gold pom-poms and being a blind homer, I can recommend a couple other boards that would be much better suited for you.

Fair for you, not for me!

[Dwinsgames]

I could have SWORN I posted a response here with a little picture and everything yet NONE of it is here .......

guess I am not allowed to call someone a troll ?

could have sworn I seen it done by a admin this past week , are they permitted to do something the rest of us are not ?

if so please advise , should be the same for everyone though


EDIT .... I did a little research it wasn't " troll " it was resident court jester ....same basic cut down though

[Mistah Q]

I could have SWORN I posted a response here with a little picture and everything yet NONE of it is here .......

guess I am not allowed to call someone a troll ?

could have sworn I seen it done by a admin this past week , are they permitted to do something the rest of us are not ?

if so please advise , should be the same for everyone though


EDIT .... I did a little research it wasn't " troll " it was resident court jester ....same basic cut down though

I saw it too

If admins can post things we're not allowed to... I'm done with this board. Especially since none of the other off-topic junk has been cut from this thread.

[Texasteel]

The problem I see with the Steelers is that at times (like the beginning of the Baltimore game) is that they run the ball just for the sake of running the ball. It's like they're in this mentality where "We're the Steelers! We run the ball!" when right now that isn't their strength and they just aren't very good at it. Right now their best weapon on offense is the no-huddle. They should have been going with that all season until it fails them, but instead the Steelers have tried to be a team they just aren't built to be and frankly, doesn't lend itself towards winning in this era of the NFL.

The Steelers want to run the ball to control the clock. They believe that even if the offense isn't scoring points, the defense will be fresher and better and they'll avoid getting into a shootout and will be able to grind out a low-scoring win. Except that hasn't been the case. This Steeler defense sucks and to win games the offense needs to score points. The Steelers may not want to play that way, but if they want to be a contending team again then they have no choice. It's about the Steelers willingness to finally let go of the past and embrace the modern era.

If your asking me to explain that first set of downs, you out of luck. I was as confused as everyone else. As far as this team being built to run or not, all I can say is that I hope they don't think that they are finished building. This team looks to have found a RB that can run the ball, but isn't able to give him the holes he need to do it. We also need another RB, one that give the defense something different to look at. Our team is just not doing the job consistently that they need to, can that be cured by finding another LT, or another TE that can block, or a coach that can come up with a better blocking scheme, don't have the answer to that either, but is sound like the boss is wanting some answers, and when that happens something usually starts to take place. Probably not tomorrow, but at some point, maybe even next year. One thing I do know is that if we can start having a consistent running game it can only help our franchise QB, the offense in general, and yes, even the defense.

[MrPgh]

If your asking me to explain that first set of downs, you out of luck. I was as confused as everyone else. As far as this team being built to run or not, all I can say is that I hope they don't think that they are finished building. This team looks to have found a RB that can run the ball, but isn't able to give him the holes he need to do it. We also need another RB, one that give the defense something different to look at. Our team is just not doing the job consistently that they need to, can that be cured by finding another LT, or another TE that can block, or a coach that can come up with a better blocking scheme, don't have the answer to that either, but is sound like the boss is wanting some answers, and when that happens something usually starts to take place. Probably not tomorrow, but at some point, maybe even next year. One thing I do know is that if we can start having a consistent running game it can only help our franchise QB, the offense in general, and yes, even the defense.

I agree that the roster assembly of this team is very flawed and incomplete. Would every team want to average 5 yards/carry on every run? Of course. Realistically though that's not likely to happen, and the Steelers are hard pressed to get even half of that. My point is that the Steelers need to stop banging their heads against a wall. The offense works best when it's being run out of the no-huddle. I just want to know why they wait until they are down multiple possessions to use it. Is it Haley's ego? Is it Tomlin's ego? Art II's demand for balance? There's just no logical reasoning to what the Steelers are doing. They should be using the no-huddle until it fails.

The Steelers need at least a WR (maybe 2), TE, LT, CB, S, NT, ILB, and DE. They aren't filling in all of their holes in one off season, but they still have a franchise QB. The Steelers need to play to his strengths because it's the best chance they have of covering up their weaknesses while the team retools.

[Texasteel]

I agree that the roster assembly of this team is very flawed and incomplete. Would every team want to average 5 yards/carry on every run? Of course. Realistically though that's not likely to happen, and the Steelers are hard pressed to get even half of that. My point is that the Steelers need to stop banging their heads against a wall. The offense works best when it's being run out of the no-huddle. I just want to know why they wait until they are down multiple possessions to use it. Is it Haley's ego? Is it Tomlin's ego? Art II's demand for balance? There's just no logical reasoning to what the Steelers are doing. They should be using the no-huddle until it fails.

The Steelers need at least a WR (maybe 2), TE, LT, CB, S, NT, ILB, and DE. They aren't filling in all of their holes in one off season, but they still have a franchise QB. The Steelers need to play to his strengths because it's the best chance they have of covering up their weaknesses while the team retools.

I'm just afraid that if we don't do something to get a better running game we may not have that franchise QB very long. It often looks like the defense is saying, " the hell with the run, I'm going to try to kill Ben." This also make the pass protection more difficult. I really think that the running game can be fix relatively quickly, with better run blocking, and maybe better play calling. No, your right we can't fix everything all at one, but I think we need to fix what we can. I truly believe the the running game can be fixed.

[MrPgh]

I'm just afraid that if we don't do something to get a better running game we may not have that franchise QB very long. It often looks like the defense is saying, " the hell with the run, I'm going to try to kill Ben." This also make the pass protection more difficult. I really think that the running game can be fix relatively quickly, with better run blocking, and maybe better play calling. No, your right we can't fix everything all at one, but I think we need to fix what we can. I truly believe the the running game can be fixed.

Ben has been kept upright more when he runs the no-huddle. It prevents the defense from substituting and it keeps tired pass rushers on the field. And it's not like the no huddle has to be pass pass pass all the time. You can run the ball out of the no huddle and probably run it more effectively.

I'm not against the Steelers having a better running game. I'm against them running the ball just for the sake of running the ball.

[Texasteel]

Ben has been kept upright more when he runs the no-huddle. It prevents the defense from substituting and it keeps tired pass rushers on the field. And it's not like the no huddle has to be pass pass pass all the time. You can run the ball out of the no huddle and probably rusn it more effectively.

I'm not against the Steelers having a better running game. I'm against them running the ball just for the sake of running the ball.

I don't think I said anything pro or con about a no huddle offense, nor do I consider running the ball for the sake of running it a great game plan. I do think that being able to run can only do good for this team. So I guess we agree on the basics.

[Bluecoat96]

Don't know if he's been mentioned yet, but what about Gary Kubiak? I could see him getting the boot after this season.

[GBMelBlount]

1. I don't think Haley is one of our problems, but I realize I'm in the vast minority on that.


I Agree and think the short passing game is necessary with such a problematic line.

However, if he is the reason they have not run more no huddles or for Ben not calling the plays more of the time then I take issue.

[Psycho Ward 86]

Don't know if he's been mentioned yet, but what about Gary Kubiak? I could see him getting the boot after this season.

yes. 100% yes. best suggestion so far imo.

although i still think with as shitty + injured our O-line has been for so long, i dont think it would make much difference who the OC is

[Dwinsgames]

Don't know if he's been mentioned yet, but what about Gary Kubiak? I could see him getting the boot after this season.


on paper great idea , however he is a ZBS style of guy ( Denvers system and now Houstons system ) as well and in case nobody has noticed our lineman are not equipped to handle the job .... I do like him though

[zulater]

Kubiak is reportedly out by the end of today.

[Shoes]

Don't know if he's been mentioned yet, but what about Gary Kubiak? I could see him getting the boot after this season.

I like him too, but Haley will be back next season.

[zulater]

I like him too, but Haley will be back next season.


Unless the off the field issues are found to be cause for his dismissal.

[MrPgh]

Unless the off the field issues are found to be cause for his dismissal.

If the Steelers try to sweep Haley's off the field issues under the rug and bring him back, how would you feel about the organization then?

[Shoes]

Unless the off the field issues are found to be cause for his dismissal.

Zu, that all seems to depend on wind direction these days.

[dislocatedday]

I've been critical of Haley this season as the offense is not clicking except for when they go no huddle. The standard playcalling has just not been effective. I've felt that because of this he needs to be let go at season's end. However, I do realize that the offense last season seemed to be running smoothly for a stretch at mid-season when the Oline was healthy and performing well. Then the Oline injuries piled up and things fell apart.

Maybe Haley is not that bad. I just get the sense that Ben does not have faith in his offensive schemes. I have no idea if this is the case or not, but if it is, then I think the team would be better served by putting someone there who can work with Ben in putting together plays/schemes that he believes in. I know Ben is not the whole offense, but he is the single most critical player on this team and has the biggest impact on their success.

[Craic]

Honestly, if the OC's fired, I'd rather we just get a gameplanner and let Ben act as the OC at this point in his career.

[Dwinsgames]

Brett Favre http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap2000000293547/article/brett-favre-helps-coach-high-school-to-mississippi-state-title-win

am joking well sort of anyways , however , I would not be shocked to see him in that pos at some point if he so chose to go that route

[X-Terminator]

I don't think Haley loses his job, simply because of the OL injuries they've had all season. He will get one more season with (hopefully) a healthy OL to see what he can do. However, he MUST turn over more of the reins to Ben and stop trying to force-feed the run when it's clear that they suck at it.

[MrPgh]

I don't think Haley loses his job, simply because of the OL injuries they've had all season. He will get one more season with (hopefully) a healthy OL to see what he can do. However, he MUST turn over more of the reins to Ben and stop trying to force-feed the run when it's clear that they suck at it.

I think that would show how messed up the Steelers as an organization are when Arians got fired after a 12-4 season when he too had to deal with o-line injuries. At least Arians didn't have off field problems.

[Lambert_Loonie]

I saw Randy Fichtner mentioned earlier, I think he would be a great choice. He's already familiar with the personnel and has experience as an OC.

Also, from the "Blast from the Past" category, I'd be open to having Mike Mularkey back.

But overall, IMO the offense needs to get away from the West Coast/Dink & Dunk/Possession passing game. When Haley arrived, I had hopes for an offense that resembled Arizona's during the Kurt Warner era, but it's been nothing resembling that. I don't think we need to go into Baltimore or the old Oakland territory of living & dying with the vertical passing game, that's the whole other end of the spectrum.

In a perfect world, I'd love to see Ben & Randy Fichtner get ahold of New Orleans or San Francisco's offensive playbook and tweak & adjust it to our offense.

[KeiselPower99]

I have a weird thought maybe Haley does not know what he is doing with Ben because Ben isn't the normal typical QB.