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zulater
11-30-2013, 08:27 AM
Missed calls

Penalties that were missed Thursday night:

• When Shaun Suisham moved forward to attempt to kick a 50-yard field goal before the ball was snapped, he should have been flagged for a false start. Instead of losing 12 yards on the aborted play, after Suisham tried to run with the ball, and giving it to Baltimore at its 44, the penalty would have spotted the ball at the 37. Tomlin then could have decided to try to pin the Ravens back on a punt or opt for a 55-yard field goal attempt.

• Le’Veon Bell ran well out of the tackle box around left end when Ravens cornerback Jimmy Smith lowered his helmet into Bell’s, helping knock the halfback’s helmet off. Smith should have been penalized for his hit and, indeed, should draw a fine. Instead, it caused Bell a concussion and a lost touchdown. Bell wrote on Twitter that he is OK and “thanks for all your concern.”



Read more: http://www.post-gazette.com/sports/steelers/2013/11/30/On-the-Steelers-Playoff-picture-barely-visible/stories/201311300027#ixzz2m8gZ0ds0

I'd add face guarding on Sanders on the 2 point conversion attempt at the end of the game. The Steelers should have got another chance.

zulater
11-30-2013, 08:41 AM
Enough with the Manny Sanders hate. No link, this is me talking. Yeah he dropped the 2 point conversion attempt. Yes he dropped a few others before that too. But he's not nearly as bad as people make out. He's actually pretty good for a #2 Wide receiver. Right now he sits at 38th in the league in yards receiving. Granted he has one more game than many, so by the end of the weekend he'll drop down to the 40's. But in a league with 32 teams with 2- or 3 receivers on each team being targeted, plus tight end's and backs that's certainly not shameful production. You think he's the only receiver in the league that's dropped a pass, run a wrong route etc... Whether the Steelers will or should keep him going forward is a separate argument. But for the here and now he's a valuable member of this team. There's no one behind him that would even come close to doing the overall job he's been doing this season. It's laughable to think people want him benched. Sanders will be a receiver in the league for many years to come, be it in Pittsburgh or elsewhere, and if they lose him it will be a setback to this team.

When did perfection become the only acceptable standard in the NFL anyway? Doesn't it occur to people that the other guy's are getting paid too? I guess every football fan is perfect in his own world therefore expects the same from every player on the field?

zulater
11-30-2013, 08:51 AM
http://www.observer-reporter.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=%2F20131130%2FCOLUMN0103%2F131139999&source=RSS#.Upn7CcSRAVB

Over the course of the Steelers-Ravens series, there have been a number of instant classics played between the two AFC North rivals.

Thursday night, the two teams added several chapters to the ever-growing book. Call this one the Thanksgiving Throw Down.

You want drama?

This game had plenty of it, with the Steelers storming back from deficits of 13-0 and 19-7 to cut the lead to 22-20 with just over a minute remaining on drive that saw the Steelers score three times, only two have two overruled upon review.

Or, how about the Steelers’ attempt to tie the game with a two-point conversion, running the same play on which they had just scored the game-tying touchdown on fourth-and-goal from the 1? Baltimore cornerback Chykie Brown appeared to faceguard Pittsburgh receiver Emmanuel Sanders, never turning to play the ball. But the screen was enough to keep Sanders from clearly getting a view of the football and he dropped it.

If that wasn’t enough, there was also Steelers head coach Mike Tomlin’s near tackle of Baltimore return man Jacoby Jones as he watched Jones break through his coverage unit on the jumbotron.

Or maybe you want game-changing plays?

Joe Flacco and Torrey Smith had a big one early, connecting for a 54-yard gain to the Pittsburgh 1 to set up Baltimore’s lone touchdown in the game.

And then there was Jones’ 73-yard return to answer Pittsburgh’s first score.

The Steelers had some as well, both good and bad.

They botched a field goal attempt in the first half on a play that ended with placekicker Shaun Suisham running for his life before being tackled for a 12-yard loss.

But the offense also produced some big-time plays to get back into it, most notably a 43-yard run by rookie running back Le’Veon Bell to set up the Steelers’ first touchdown and a screen pass to Bell on second-and-24 that went for 29 yards to set up Pittsburgh’s final score.

“Maybe it’s because it just happened, and it’s fresh in our memory that there are more memorable, but this is a classic,” said Ravens head coach John Harbaugh. “This is another classic Ravens-Steelers game. These games just keep happening. I thought the last time we played them this year was a classic, but this was better played. I thought both teams have improved quite a bit since the last time we played, and it was really a well-played game.”

zulater
11-30-2013, 09:27 AM
I once heard Bill Poilan on ESPN explaining the correlation between starting field position and scoring. He cited some eye opening stats, I can't remember precisely what they were, but basically what it came down to is that drives that start from inside your own 30 usually fail, and ones where you start at or around midfield cash in around 50% in some kind of score. Not shocking or earth shattering news mind you, anyone with common sense who knows the game probably could have figured that out for themselves. But I bring this up for precisely this reason. Common sense often goes out the window when fans decide they want to play the blame game.

Anyway here's the starting field position for both teams last Thursday.

Steelers own 20, 21, 15, 28, 20, 21, 40, 21

Ravens own 29, 11, 44, 15, 32, Steelers 27, own 36, own 34

I left out the Ravens final possession after the onsides kick.

Dwinsgames
11-30-2013, 11:56 AM
Enough with the Manny Sanders hate. No link, this is me talking. Yeah he dropped the 2 point conversion attempt. Yes he dropped a few others before that too. But he's not nearly as bad as people make out. He's actually pretty good for a #2 Wide receiver. Right now he sits at 38th in the league in yards receiving. Granted he has one more game than many, so by the end of the weekend he'll drop down to the 40's. But in a league with 32 teams with 2- or 3 receivers on each team being targeted, plus tight end's and backs that's certainly not shameful production. You think he's the only receiver in the league that's dropped a pass, run a wrong route etc... Whether the Steelers will or should keep him going forward is a separate argument. But for the here and now he's a valuable member of this team. There's no one behind him that would even come close to doing the overall job he's been doing this season. It's laughable to think people want him benched. Sanders will be a receiver in the league for many years to come, be it in Pittsburgh or elsewhere, and if they lose him it will be a setback to this team.

When did perfection become the only acceptable standard in the NFL anyway? Doesn't it occur to people that the other guy's are getting paid too? I guess every football fan is perfect in his own world therefore expects the same from every player on the field?



Sanders 54 catches on 94 targets 604 yards 4 TDs http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/stats/_/id/13295/emmanuel-sanders

Cotchery 36 catches on 56 targets 509 yards 8 Tds http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/stats/_/id/5633/jerricho-cotchery

whom is currently more valuable is pretty clear to this poster

basically 40 more plays to Sanders ( or close to double the plays over all ) for less than 100 more total yards of offense

ALLD
11-30-2013, 12:22 PM
We lost the game by pissing away the first half on offense trying to execute some kind of bizarrely inappropriate play calling that nobody on the team was buying. There was very little creativity or misdirection in the strategy which was reflected in the score. Everybody also came out flat when they should have been pumped up. Not ready for prime time yet.

cold-hard-steel
11-30-2013, 12:34 PM
Well , i have always been taught to not cry over spilled milk . I think it is one more of the lessons we must go through in life , that it is applicable to living as a human being. No matter what,when you lose you start to look for excuses and someone to blame . That is sports . Team-mates , coaches , refs , commissioners , medical profession , or us fans . The team failed , and i'm proud of the way they failed . Tough night for the whole team . Takes a team to win , and they did not show it . On the other side of the coin , it takes a team to lose too .

zulater
11-30-2013, 02:41 PM
Sanders 54 catches on 94 targets 604 yards 4 TDs http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/stats/_/id/13295/emmanuel-sanders

Cotchery 36 catches on 56 targets 509 yards 8 Tds http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/stats/_/id/5633/jerricho-cotchery

whom is currently more valuable is pretty clear to this poster

basically 40 more plays to Sanders ( or close to double the plays over all ) for less than 100 more total yards of offense

I love Cotch and what he's given to this team. But if you take Sanders out of the equation Cotch starts drawing the 2nd corner instead of the nickel back, and he's finding it harder to get open. And more snaps doesn't really mean more production with a receiver. Sanders is obviously on the field for a lot more running plays than Cotchery is. And even if we assume Cotchery is better than Sanders ( which I don't, but for the benefit of the argument will do here) 3 good receivers are better than two. More weapons = greater production.

Dwinsgames
11-30-2013, 03:00 PM
I love Cotch and what he's given to this team. But if you take Sanders out of the equation Cotch starts drawing the 2nd corner instead of the nickel back, and he's finding it harder to get open. And more snaps doesn't really mean more production with a receiver. Sanders is obviously on the field for a lot more running plays than Cotchery is. And even if we assume Cotchery is better than Sanders ( which I don't, but for the benefit of the argument will do here) 3 good receivers are better than two. More weapons = greater production.


perhaps , but that is a debate that can't be won by either side its to subjective because there is no data to support either side and the comparison between 2nd corner and Nickle corners is also subjective for a multitude of reasons besides being the number 2 wr does not guarantee you have a CB on you to begin with many times its a S depends on the route and scheme of the Def and what personnel they have on the field etc etc ....

the bold I am not sure where it pertains in the discussion though , because I never invoked snap counts into the debate . only Targets


my original point is Sanders is replaceable and I do not believe it would be all that difficult to do so and at this point in time I would consider him less valuable than Cotchery

zulater
11-30-2013, 03:12 PM
perhaps , but that is a debate that can't be won by either side its to subjective because there is no data to support either side and the comparison between 2nd corner and Nickle corners is also subjective for a multitude of reasons besides being the number 2 wr does not guarantee you have a CB on you to begin with many times its a S depends on the route and scheme of the Def and what personnel they have on the field etc etc ....

the bold I am not sure where it pertains in the discussion though , because I never invoked snap counts into the debate . only Targets


my original point is Sanders is replaceable and I do not believe it would be all that difficult to do so and at this point in time I would consider him less valuable than Cotchery

Fair enough, but for the remainder of this season it would only be cutting off your nose to spite your face taking Sanders out of the lineup in my opinion. The offense finally is getting some traction, I don't want to mess things up to make an example of him.

steeldawg
11-30-2013, 03:14 PM
I love Cotch and what he's given to this team. But if you take Sanders out of the equation Cotch starts drawing the 2nd corner instead of the nickel back, and he's finding it harder to get open. And more snaps doesn't really mean more production with a receiver. Sanders is obviously on the field for a lot more running plays than Cotchery is. And even if we assume Cotchery is better than Sanders ( which I don't, but for the benefit of the argument will do here) 3 good receivers are better than two. More weapons = greater production.

cotchery is playing a different position, he doesn't draw the same coverage sanders does on the outside, cotch gets matched up with safeties and linebackers. Saying one is better than the other isn't really a fair comparison because if you put cotch on the outside to stretch the field my guess is he wouldn't be effective.

Dwinsgames
11-30-2013, 03:24 PM
Fair enough, but for the remainder of this season it would only be cutting off your nose to spite your face taking Sanders out of the lineup in my opinion. The offense finally is getting some traction, I don't want to mess things up to make an example of him.


I have not read every post on the forum but I have not seen anyone say they should bench him the rest of the way (maybe some have I dunno ) but me personally I would reduce his reps and play Wheaton more , see if the kid is who we thought he was when they drafted him , guys who where drafted lower by other teams have gotten a ton more playing time than he has to this point and far more production as well ...

we need to find out if he was worth the selection point ( he wasn't my favorite of the group left on the board ) but we have him now , nothing we can do about that but try and get him acclimated to this level of play asap because next year will be here before you know it and he will be expected to step up ... if his playing time is not increased he essentially will still be a rookie next year and should not be counted on to produce forcing us to commit money we do not have at the pos again or go into the season with a bigger unknown than we did this year with Sanders as a starter

Mistah Q
11-30-2013, 03:26 PM
Both players are being used appropriately. We just have the case that Sanders is dropping some key passes lately.

I'm not opposed to sitting Sanders for a quarter and seeing what Wheaton or that Justin Bieber guy we drafted can do. Or I guess he didn't make the team, so Moye.

GoSlash27
12-01-2013, 06:56 AM
Wasn't putting draftees into the starting lineup too soon what got us into this mess in the first place?

Not that I have anything against Wheaton.

Dwinsgames
12-01-2013, 10:27 AM
Wasn't putting draftees into the starting lineup too soon what got us into this mess in the first place?

Not that I have anything against Wheaton.

who ?

sure we have put a few guys into the lineup as rookies but most times they are 2nd or 3rd year players ( see Heyward , Hope , Lewis , as examples ) they provide 1 years of solid production for us then move on via FA , that is not getting the most of the draft class

zulater
12-01-2013, 10:29 AM
Watched the replay of the Ravens only touchdown just a few minutes ago, and noticed that Oher was clearly guilty of moving before the snap, and not just a little. Came from a 3 point stance to be fully erect ( no bad jokes please :lol:) right before the snap. If someone knows how to do the highlight and post it would appreciate it. Anyway if that call is made instead of the touchdown it goes to 3rd and goal from the 12. Everyone's making a huge deal about the non call on Tomlin. Well tell you what I'll give you the call on Tomlin if you give us the non call on Oher on the TD, the non call on Suisham for illegal procedure that would have negated the botched fg, and I'll call it even.

zulater
12-01-2013, 10:49 AM
I've watched it about 5 times and how the hell could they miss that false start by Oher? :frusty: The thing is it was set up by the previous play when Worildis got around the edge for a sack on Flacco, taking the Ravens from 2nd and goal from the 1 or 2, to 3rd and goal form the 7.

Mojouw
12-01-2013, 11:08 AM
Didn't feel like quoting all the posts, but Sanders needs to get benched for a bit. This is for a couple of reasons. One, if Antonio Brown can get benched, then so does Sanders. He needs to get the mental part of his game together. Maybe some time off will help with that. Second, a roughly 50% catch rate for your #2 wideout is not acceptable. I don't care how good of routes he runs, what he can do after the catch, etc...you need to hold on to the darn thing first. Third, the Steelers need to determine what they have in Wheaton.

Just my thoughts, but Sanders is likely a cap casualty after the season anyway, so Wheaton needs to take on a bigger role ASAP

zulater
12-01-2013, 11:20 AM
Didn't feel like quoting all the posts, but Sanders needs to get benched for a bit. This is for a couple of reasons. One, if Antonio Brown can get benched, then so does Sanders. He needs to get the mental part of his game together. Maybe some time off will help with that. Second, a roughly 50% catch rate for your #2 wideout is not acceptable. I don't care how good of routes he runs, what he can do after the catch, etc...you need to hold on to the darn thing first. Third, the Steelers need to determine what they have in Wheaton.

Just my thoughts, but Sanders is likely a cap casualty after the season anyway, so Wheaton needs to take on a bigger role ASAP

Wheaton isn't as good as Sanders. Ben and the rest of the offense would hate your idea.

zulater
12-01-2013, 11:36 AM
I will say this. After watching the play several times I can't for the life of me understand why Sanders left his feet when he winded himself attempting to catch Ben's deep ball on the left sideline on our second series? He was behind the defender, I guess he might have lost the ball in the lights? Anyway the more I look at that play the more I think Ben threw what should have been a touchdown pass there.

SteelerFanInStl
12-01-2013, 11:53 AM
Wheaton isn't as good as Sanders. Ben and the rest of the offense would hate your idea.

Wheaton may not be as good as Sanders yet (I'm sure that he can drop passes too), but from the little that we've seen of him, he appears to have the tools. He's also one of the future pieces at WR for the Steelers and Sanders isn't.

This season is done so the preparation for the future needs to start now. Play the young guys and get them experience so that they can contribute next year.

- - - Updated - - -


Watched the replay of the Ravens only touchdown just a few minutes ago, and noticed that Oher was clearly guilty of moving before the snap, and not just a little. Came from a 3 point stance to be fully erect ( no bad jokes please :lol:) right before the snap. If someone knows how to do the highlight and post it would appreciate it. Anyway if that call is made instead of the touchdown it goes to 3rd and goal from the 12. Everyone's making a huge deal about the non call on Tomlin. Well tell you what I'll give you the call on Tomlin if you give us the non call on Oher on the TD, the non call on Suisham for illegal procedure that would have negated the botched fg, and I'll call it even.

Oher does that ALL THE TIME and rarely gets called for it. I was surprised that they started calling it in the second half of the game.

zulater
12-01-2013, 12:00 PM
Wheaton may not be as good as Sanders yet (I'm sure that he can drop passes too), but from the little that we've seen of him, he appears to have the tools. He's also one of the future pieces at WR for the Steelers and Sanders isn't.

This season is done so the preparation for the future needs to start now. Play the young guys and get them experience so that they can contribute next year.

- - - Updated - - -


Oher does that ALL THE TIME and rarely gets called for it. I was surprised that they started calling it in the second half of the game.


Can he get open though? If he can't beat coverage it doesn't matter how good or bad his hands are. From what I've seen of him in limited play he's still learning how to beat coverage.

Getting back to the Steelers 2nd series, Ben threw a nice deep ball to Antonio Brown on the left sideline. But Brown was briefly held and seemed to think it was more important to try to sell the hold to the ref than to run under the ball. Had he done the latter, it's likely a Steelers touchdown there.

So twice on the 2nd series Ben put deep passes on the money, but in both cases his receivers let him down.

Can't pin that on Haley. By the way the first series wasn't as bad as people make out either. The 3rd down handoff to Bell nearly broke big. Huge hole there, but the ROLB or safety slid over perfectly And made a great play and tackle.

Mojouw
12-01-2013, 12:34 PM
Wheaton isn't as good as Sanders. Ben and the rest of the offense would hate your idea.

Based on what? Your impressions? Zu, you gotta give us a bit more to go on here. What do we know that Sanders does well? Here is a list:

1. Run after the catch in the open field.
2. Decent at getting off the line
3. Knows the offense

That's it. He is billed as deep threat. He certainly has the physical tools, but he appears to lack the mental focus to consistently reel in over-the-shoulder catches. Sanders looks great when he can either catch the ball in front of him and then turn and run or receives the ball in stride on a slant, but seems to suffer from drops when he is asked to catch the ball on the move. Well, that is problem since when you are his size and in Haley's offense, you are going to be consistently asked to catch the ball on the move.

Here are some stats for perspective - http://wp.advancednflstats.com/playerpage.php?playerid=88-E.Sanders&pos=WR&season=all

Sanders' catch rate is higher than I gave him credit for. One can also not argue that all of his lack of success (catches) is coming on deep passes as only 35 of his targets are "deep" and he has not caught over 40% of his targets. His Success Rate is under 50% for the season. The stats seem to show that Sanders had a good couple of years as the 3rd WR or slot option and then has stumbled noticeably when asked to be the #2 WR in the offense.

For comparison, here are Brown's stats from the same website -- http://wp.advancednflstats.com/playerpage.php?playerid=84-A.Brown&pos=WR&season=all

Far better performance in almost all categories.

As for Wheaton, he is an unknown quantity at this point. We can speculate on his performance based on college record and scouting profiles, etc. He is similar in size and speed to Sanders and Brown. He has a reputation for running good routes, having decent hands, and good run after the catch skills. He also has a college track record of running under deep throws and not dropping them.

So Wheaton sounds a heck of a lot like Sanders only maybe with better hands/concentration...so what is to lose?

zulater
12-01-2013, 01:06 PM
Based on what? Your impressions? Zu, you gotta give us a bit more to go on here. What do we know that Sanders does well? Here is a list:

1. Run after the catch in the open field.
2. Decent at getting off the line
3. Knows the offense

That's it. He is billed as deep threat. He certainly has the physical tools, but he appears to lack the mental focus to consistently reel in over-the-shoulder catches. Sanders looks great when he can either catch the ball in front of him and then turn and run or receives the ball in stride on a slant, but seems to suffer from drops when he is asked to catch the ball on the move. Well, that is problem since when you are his size and in Haley's offense, you are going to be consistently asked to catch the ball on the move.

Here are some stats for perspective - http://wp.advancednflstats.com/playerpage.php?playerid=88-E.Sanders&pos=WR&season=all

Sanders' catch rate is higher than I gave him credit for. One can also not argue that all of his lack of success (catches) is coming on deep passes as only 35 of his targets are "deep" and he has not caught over 40% of his targets. His Success Rate is under 50% for the season. The stats seem to show that Sanders had a good couple of years as the 3rd WR or slot option and then has stumbled noticeably when asked to be the #2 WR in the offense.

For comparison, here are Brown's stats from the same website -- http://wp.advancednflstats.com/playerpage.php?playerid=84-A.Brown&pos=WR&season=all

Far better performance in almost all categories.

As for Wheaton, he is an unknown quantity at this point. We can speculate on his performance based on college record and scouting profiles, etc. He is similar in size and speed to Sanders and Brown. He has a reputation for running good routes, having decent hands, and good run after the catch skills. He also has a college track record of running under deep throws and not dropping them.

So Wheaton sounds a heck of a lot like Sanders only maybe with better hands/concentration...so what is to lose?

Wheaton hasn't got a lot of reps, but when he has gotten on the field I just don't see him getting open. I think the biggest thing right now is that he doesn't gain separation. At least with Sanders the defense has to respect his spot on the field and devote assets ( players and schemes) to stopping him. Puit Wheaton out there consistently and Miller and Cotchery will find it harder to get open imo.

I could be wrong, but we tend to focus on Sanders poor plays. He has also added some value to the offense.

Oh well not up to us anyway. We'll see what they do? Wont surprise me if they do try to up Wheatons reps the last 4 games.

Steelman
12-02-2013, 08:45 AM
Oher was jumping the snap all game. Even the announcers noticed it and said some BS about how he's just quicker than everyone else.

I must admit, as a fan I'm pretty pissed at Sanders this week. He had several key drops even before the controversial two-point conversion attempt. (though I've seen WR's make that catch before) (sidebar: After seeing Donny Avery yesterday, it made me feel a little better about Sanders)

I do agree that although Cotchery is giving better production, but he wouldn't fare well in the #2 spot. So Sanders is basically our new, not-quite-as-fast, Mike Wallace. Minus the long catches.

Purely guessing on potential, I'd lean toward Wheaton being that slot/Welker guy in the future, essentially taking over Cotch's spot and bumping him back to his vet/4th role. That still leaves us with a need for a bigger receiving threat on the outside.

zulater
12-03-2013, 12:50 PM
A couple more things in Sanders defense. He caught the Steelers first touchdown. On their 2nd TD drive he converted a 3rd and 3. Then on a 2nd on 1 he makes a tremendous block on #32 of the Ravens setting the edge for Leveon Bell's 2 yard first down conversion. run

zulater
12-03-2013, 01:05 PM
A perfect example of how the no huddle offense helps this team was the 2nd touchdown they scored against the Ravens. 1st and goal from the 8, Ben completes a 7 yard pass to Heath down to the 1, then gets the Steelers right up to the line and calls a run to Bell before the Ravens can bring in their short yardage troops. Bell goes in the end zone untouched. You huddle after Miller's catch and the Ravens change personell groups there and that play probably isn't working.

zulater
12-03-2013, 01:18 PM
A play where Troy's freelancing killed us. Following our 2nd TD. 19-14 Ravens have a 3rd and 4 on their own 39. Troy ignores Ray Rice releasing from the backfield, runs by him on the way to Flacco, Flacco dumps it off to Rice, and he goes untouched until he's 22 yards downfield. If we force the 3 and out there game follows a completely different script.

MrPgh
12-03-2013, 04:25 PM
A play where Troy's freelancing killed us. Following our 2nd TD. 19-14 Ravens have a 3rd and 4 on their own 39. Troy ignores Ray Rice releasing from the backfield, runs by him on the way to Flacco, Flacco dumps it off to Rice, and he goes untouched until he's 22 yards downfield. If we force the 3 and out there game follows a completely different script.

I do think Troy needs to play like more of a traditional safety since he doesn't have the speed to make up for bad guesses. However, I don't think we should over look the god awful mistakes Ryan Clark has made in coverage this season. How many big plays have happened because Ryan Clark was supposed to help one of the CBs but instead either bit on play-action or went to cover a guy that really wasn't a threat to do anything?

zulater
12-03-2013, 05:02 PM
I do think Troy needs to play like more of a traditional safety since he doesn't have the speed to make up for bad guesses. However, I don't think we should over look the god awful mistakes Ryan Clark has made in coverage this season. How many big plays have happened because Ryan Clark was supposed to help one of the CBs but instead either bit on play-action or went to cover a guy that really wasn't a threat to do anything?


No argument here. I want the Steelers to draft db's with 2 or their first 3 picks.

MrPgh
12-03-2013, 07:48 PM
Another problem with the safeties is that they seem overly committed to stopping the run. This seems to be a failure on LeBeau's part to realize other teams aren't beating the Steelers with their running games, they're beating the Steelers with down field passes.

GoSlash27
12-03-2013, 08:45 PM
Another problem with the safeties is that they seem overly committed to stopping the run. This seems to be a failure on LeBeau's part to realize other teams aren't beating the Steelers with their running games, they're beating the Steelers with down field passes.

I'm thinkin' any issues we have aren't the result of Dick LeBeau "failing to realize" anything. He's the "Pai Mei" of defense, and I don't think you'd find anyone in the NFL who'd disagree.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bthNfim8vCA

MrPgh
12-03-2013, 10:47 PM
I'm thinkin' any issues we have aren't the result of Dick LeBeau "failing to realize" anything. He's the "Pai Mei" of defense, and I don't think you'd find anyone in the NFL who'd disagree.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bthNfim8vCA

The issues certainly aren't all on LeBeau, but I think it's time to accept he's past his prime as a coordinator. And as fans I think it's time we moved on from the 2008 defense, because this defense is nowhere close to that. Teams aren't beating the Steelers by running on them, they're beating the Steelers by throwing deep. Wouldn't it make a lot of sense for the DC to keep the safeties back rather then let them freelance when they've been getting burned badly?

steeldawg
12-04-2013, 09:43 AM
I think the problem is our safeties are just old. Ryan Clark's mind might still be right but his physical talent is greatly diminished. Troy may be healthy but he is caught constantly out of position.