Starkey: Protect Ben, pay Ben

[zulater]

Art Rooney II's plan made sense. It really did.
The Steelers would jettison Bruce Arians (now enjoying a wonderful retirement) and bring in a coordinator whose scheme and personality would keep Ben Roethlisberger in his place — upright in the pocket — well into his 30s.
Only it hasn't turned out that way.
Roethlisberger's steady companions are a noticeable limp and a large ice pack on his knee. He is on pace to be sacked 62 times this season, 12 more than ever before.
Knowing that, you'd think the Steelers would seek to minimize the damage at every turn. Instead, with the Patriots game well out of hand, coach Mike Tomlin amazingly, unnecessarily and irresponsibly put his quarterback in harm's way.
If Roethlisberger gets hurt there — and he easily could have — imagine the conversations we'd be having this week. Not only did he re-enter with 2:41 left and his team trailing, 55-31, he was called upon to keep passing. Andre Carter drilled him in the midsection on one play and tripped him from behind on another, leading to a ridiculous underhanded heave. Big Ben limped back to the line.
If you're going to keep your quarterback in the game, at least protect him by running the ball. CBS analyst Phil Simms called for just such a strategy, saying, “That's not giving up. That's just smart football.”
I asked Tomlin at his news conference Tuesday if he still believed he made the right call.
“I believe that,” he said. “That was an opportunity to continue to (improve). The healthy guys were going to stay on the field and play.”
OK, then what about wide receiver Antonio Brown, who did not take the field? Tomlin explained that Brown wasn't providing “quality execution from an assignment standpoint” and was benched. Great. A double whammy: Your quarterback's already a sitting duck, and you make his job more difficult — and potentially more perilous — by taking away his top target.
This wasn't the first time Tomlin sent Roethlisberger onto the freeway blindfolded. Remember the San Francisco game two years ago? Roethlisberger could barely walk, yet there he was absorbing shots late in a 20-3 loss.
Sometimes the tough and courageous thing to do is admit defeat and live to fight another day.
That obviously was not the biggest issue coming out of the game, but it served to symbolize the Steelers' failure to protect the franchise centerpiece, which, again, was the stated reason for changing coordinators.


Read more: http://triblive.com/sports/joestarkey/5000121-74/ben-roethlisberger-steelers#ixzz2jqW3Ecpp
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I'm glad someone had the guts to call Tomlin out on his idiocy of putting Ben in the game and having him pass with the outcome already decided. Ben took two huge shots that could easily have put him out of action for weeks on that last possession, and for what? Because Tomlin was pissed with the overall team effort? Just stupid! If I'm the Rooney's I'm calling him out for that and telling him if Ben gets hurt in that situation he's fired.

I made this analogy on game day and I'll restate it here. How the hell can you rationalize putting Ben and most of the offensive starters back in the game down 24 points with less than 3 minutes to go on a day where you clearly established some offensive continuity. Yet you only played them ( starters) a series( or two) in the 4th preseason game, a preseason where at no time was any offensive rhythm was established, because you couldn't risk injury? :frusty:

[Seven]

I actually don't have a problem with the starters staying in through the end of the game. I have no rational reason for that, certainly it makes sense to take them out, I just don't have much of an issue with it. I realize I'll probably be in the vast minority on that.

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As far as protecting Ben, I don't know what the team is supposed to do. I'm not the biggest Haley supporter in the world, but the protection issues aren't his fault. That has everything to do with personnel. And on that front, the team has invested a lot in this offensive line. They've paid guys who have performed well in the past and they've spent high picks on linemen consistently. Guys like Adams and Gilbert were good prospects coming out of school, they've just sucked in the pros. You can blame that on Colbert/Khan/Tomlin/Scouts if you want, but I think offensive linemen are probably some of the hardest players to draft. You just take a good prospect and pray. So, no I probably don't blame the protection errors on coaching, as crazy as that might sound. Just have to keep plugging away and bringing new prospects in here if you ask me.

[zulater]

I actually don't have a problem with the starters staying in through the end of the game. I have no rational reason for that, certainly it makes sense to take them out, I just don't have much of an issue with it. I realize I'll probably be in the vast minority on that.

If you leave them in there that's fine. Playing the game as if you still have a chance and exposing Ben to big hits when the outcome is no longer in doubt isn't though. As the column explains Andre Carter got two huge hits in on Ben there. Say he tears his knee up on one of them, was it worth it? I get that injury's happen, but that was stupid to expose Ben to those sort of hits when there was absolutely zero to be gained from having him out there.

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As far as protecting Ben, I don't know what the team is supposed to do. I'm not the biggest Haley supporter in the world, but the protection issues aren't his fault. That has everything to do with personnel. And on that front, the team has invested a lot in this offensive line. They've paid guys who have performed well in the past and they've spent high picks on linemen consistently. Guys like Adams and Gilbert were good prospects coming out of school, they've just sucked in the pros. You can blame that on Colbert/Khan/Tomlin/Scouts if you want, but I think offensive linemen are probably some of the hardest players to draft. You just take a good prospect and pray. So, no I probably don't blame the protection errors on coaching, as crazy as that might sound. Just have to keep plugging away and bringing new prospects in here if you ask me.

Haley undermines Ben by not letting him do what he does best until the game's gotten away from the Steelers on the scoreboard. To wit he needs to give Ben more freedom to call plays and run the no huddle, before we're down two or more scores!

Haley's fucking ego is why we can't score in the first quarter! The moron should have been fired after the Vikings game.

[Seven]

If you leave them in there that's fine. Playing the game as if you still have a chance and exposing Ben to big hits when the outcome is no longer in doubt isn't though. As the column explains Andre Carter got two huge hits in on Ben there. Say he tears his knee up on one of them, was it worth it? I get that injury's happen, but that was stupid to expose Ben to those sort of hits when there was absolutely zero to be gained from having him out there.

Yeah, maybe. I guess I just think back to that Broncos/Bears game a couple years ago and realize literally anything can happen. I understand what you're saying, I think playing it safe with a guy like Ben is probably - most definitely - the smarter move. I just don't think I can criticize a team for continuing to go after a win no matter how hopeless it seems. That's just me though.

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Haley undermines Ben by not letting him do what he does best until the game's gotten away from the Steelers on the scoreboard. To wit he needs to give Ben more freedom to call plays and run the no huddle, before we're down two or more scores!

Haley's fucking ego is why we can't score in the first quarter! The moron should have been fired after the Vikings game. Oh believe me, I have PLENTY of issues with Haley's offense. I was a big Bruce Arians fan by the time he left here. I like that he let Ben play his game. I think the fast & loose style offense fit Ben's talents perfectly. That said, I still don't think the protection issues are Haley's fault.

[zulater]

Down 24 points with less than 3 minutes to play, there is no going for a win at that point. If you find me one instance in NFL history where a trailing team made up that sort of deficit in that short of time I'll admit I'm wrong. But I don't think that example exists.

[zulater]

http://scores.espn.go.com/nfl/playbyplay?gameId=291130018&period=4

If you want to know what Bellichick would do it's right here. This is the last time the Patriots were in this sort of situation, and he pulled Brady for the last two possessions. That's what a great coach does.

[SteelerFanInStl]

As far as protecting Ben, I don't know what the team is supposed to do. I'm not the biggest Haley supporter in the world, but the protection issues aren't his fault. That has everything to do with personnel. And on that front, the team has invested a lot in this offensive line. They've paid guys who have performed well in the past and they've spent high picks on linemen consistently. Guys like Adams and Gilbert were good prospects coming out of school, they've just sucked in the pros. You can blame that on Colbert/Khan/Tomlin/Scouts if you want, but I think offensive linemen are probably some of the hardest players to draft. You just take a good prospect and pray. So, no I probably don't blame the protection errors on coaching, as crazy as that might sound. Just have to keep plugging away and bringing new prospects in here if you ask me.

The problem is that the coaching staff isn't developing these players. None of these guys is getting better since they came into the NFL. I would even argue that they've regressed. Pouncey arguably played his best ball his rookie year.

[Shoes]

I asked Tomlin at his news conference Tuesday if he still believed he made the right call.
“I believe that,” he said. “That was an opportunity to continue to (improve). The healthy guys were going to stay on the field and play.”

Arrogance at it's finest………he's also lost in space with a short circuit. Stay tuned as the search for a scapegoat continues.

[fansince'76]

Arrogance at it's finest………he's also lost in space with a short circuit. Stay tuned as the search for a scapegoat continues.

It's been my experience that finding scapegoats is what the fans do. Ten bucks says that if Arians were still here that every bit of it would be pinned on him, just like the five-game skid in '09 when the defense lost five 4th quarter leads.

[zulater]

It's been my experience that finding scapegoats is what the fans do. Ten bucks says that if Arians were still here that every bit of it would be pinned on him, just like the five-game skid in '09 when the defense lost five 4th quarter leads.

So you support the idea of putting Ben in the game and "playing to win" down 24 points with less than 3 minutes to play? You would have been fine if either of those shots Andre Carter put on Ben during that futile series would have cost him (Ben) games or the season due to injury? Tomlin doing just what he had to do? Even though I have shown that with more time on the clock and a lesser deficit Bill Bellichick yanked Brady from the game. Guess Bellichick doesn't know what the hell he's doing?

[fansince'76]

http://scores.espn.go.com/nfl/playbyplay?gameId=291130018&period=4

If you want to know what Bellichick would do it's right here. This is the last time the Patriots were in this sort of situation, and he pulled Brady for the last two possessions. That's what a great coach does.

Yeah? What about all the times that Brady was left in and still slinging it all over the place to pad his stats late in the 4th quarters of games in which the Patriots were already up by 30+? Does the risk somehow lessen when you're on the plus side of the scoreboard? It would've served him right if some opposing defensive player finally got fed up with having his team's nose rubbed in it and took his knee out.

And Payton is guilty of the same thing to a somewhat lesser extent with Brees.


So you support the idea of putting Ben in the game and "playing to win" down 24 points with less than 3 minutes to play? You would have been fine if either of those shots Andre Carter put on Ben during that futile series would have cost him (Ben) games or the season due to injury?

No, I don't. I was responding to the implication that Tomlin was searching for a scapegoat for this season.

[zulater]

Yeah? What about all the times that Brady was left in and still slinging it all over the place to pad his stats late in the 4th quarters of games in which the Patriots were already up by 30+? Would've served him right if some opposing defensive player finally got fed up with having his team's nose rubbed in it and took his knee out.

And Payton is guilty of the same thing to a somewhat lesser extent with Brees.



No, I don't. I was responding to the implication that Tomlin was seaerching for a scapegoat for this season.

Huge difference between "padding your stats" throwing the ball when the defense is playing run first or in some cases run only! If the defense guesses right Brady just chucks the ball away before anyone gets close to him. Seriously it pisses me off when they do that too. But the thing is when have you ever seen Brady take any kind of real hit when they play that shit?

Honestly I never really got upset this last game game until Tomlin put Ben in and had him passing the ball on that series. It screamed cluelessness. As if this guy has no idea what to do to reach his team. :frusty:

I'm not saying to fire Tomlin, but man I'm getting serious doubts that he's up to the task of fixing things. :noidea:

[fansince'76]

Honestly I never really got upset this last game game until Tomlin put Ben in and had him passing the ball on that series. It screamed cluelessness. As if this guy has no idea what to do to reach his team. :frusty:

I'm not saying to fire Tomlin, but man I'm getting serious doubts that he's up to the task of fixing things. :noidea:

Oh, I hear you. My faith in Tomlin is becoming more and more shaken by the week.

[NCSteeler]

The problem is that the coaching staff isn't developing these players. None of these guys is getting better since they came into the NFL. I would even argue that they've regressed. Pouncey arguably played his best ball his rookie year.

That is exactly the way i feel. Our players are not getting better, they are getting worse. The coaching/teaching is just either terrible or some how not showing up in the end product.

[Spike]

You wouldn't see Brees, Brady or Manning sent out to block on a wildcat run either, but those franchises evidently value their franchise QB's more than the Steelers.

If I was Ben, I'd demand a trade.

[Shoes]

It's been my experience that finding scapegoats is what the fans do. Ten bucks says that if Arians were still here that every bit of it would be pinned on him, just like the five-game skid in '09 when the defense lost five 4th quarter leads.

Fans only have a voice and that can be switched off. The rope is in Tomlin & ArtII hands.

[86WARD]

Goal To Go Sacks. Ben - 6. League Total for 2013 - 57. Peyton Manning - 0. Tom Brady - 0. Peyton Manning last three years - 0. Tom Brady last three years - 1.

[Psycho Ward 86]

Goal To Go Sacks. Ben - 6. League Total for 2013 - 57. Peyton Manning - 0. Tom Brady - 0. Peyton Manning last three years - 0. Tom Brady last three years - 1.

wouldnt be surprised if thats just one of many statistics that tell the story of why we never get a high TD % in the redzone