What would happen if we did this?

[steelreserve]

Say, next week:

- Release Woodley
- Release Taylor
- Release Timmons
- Release Miller
- Release Polamalu or Brown, or maybe don't, I don't care.

Do it in the middle of this season and go $60 million or $70 million over the salary cap so we're clear next year (or does the June 1 rule affect us? I don't know). The league would probably take some draft picks or something as punishment, but seriously, if we could get out from under those crippling contracts, that'd be worth a first-round pick or two, wouldn't it?

Obviously, there's probably some hole in that theory and it would never work, but just curious if anyone knows if/why it would play out differently.

[Spike]

I don't think we'd save much if anything - I read somewhere it would cost more to cut Woodley than to keep him - he and Ike just restructured

we got into this problem by kicking the can down the road - we are where we are


2014 cap figures, as calculated by websites Spotrac and overthecap.com:


Roethlisberger's $17.895 million chews up approximately 14.5 percent of their projected salary cap.

LaMarr Woodley, $13,590,000; Ike Taylor (who recently restructured), $11,942,000; Lawrence Timmons, $11,816,000; Troy Polamalu, $10,887,500; Heath Miller, $9,466,500; Antonio Brown, $8,47,000.

Read more: http://triblive.com/sports/-topstories/4962083-74/steelers-cap-million#ixzz2jo7KWDPz

[Count Steeler]

Do it via trade. At least get some picks coming back.

[Mojouw]

http://www.steelersdepot.com/2013/11/lamarr-woodley-continues-career-best-pace-as-pass-rusher/

Once again, context and actual data indicate that releasing Woodley or trading him or whatever, would be a monumentally bad decision.

[Dwinsgames]

when it is cheaper for multiple years to KEEP a player that is semi productive than out and out releasing him you know you over paid the piper

[KeiselPower99]

Woodley is having a good season. He has been our most consistent pass rusher.

[steelreserve]

http://www.steelersdepot.com/2013/11/lamarr-woodley-continues-career-best-pace-as-pass-rusher/

Once again, context and actual data indicate that releasing Woodley or trading him or whatever, would be a monumentally bad decision.

I know what would happen; we'd eat a huge charge in dead money. I'm just asking what would happen if we said what the hell, we'll eat the $50 million in dead money and we'll be $50 million over the cap and not do anything about it, and then next year it resets. What would the league do? Would the repercussions be worse than what we'd gain by resetting this mess?

[Mojouw]

I know what would happen; we'd eat a huge charge in dead money. I'm just asking what would happen if we said what the hell, we'll eat the $50 million in dead money and we'll be $50 million over the cap and not do anything about it, and then next year it resets. What would the league do? Would the repercussions be worse than what we'd gain by resetting this mess?

Did you read the linked article? My point has nothing to do with money. I am not certain that Woodley is overpaid. Fully healthy again after two injury marred years he is now one of the most effective pass-rushers in the league. Only Mario Williams and Tambi Hali are getting more pressure per rush than Woodley is.

My point was that there is enough actual frustrations and talent problems with the current Steelers roster that we do not need to spend time inventing others to worry about. Woodley and Timmons are about the only 2 spots on defense that are stable.

[BigNastyDefense]

Polamalu might be retiring after this season. His play has been rather subpar, IMHO. I think that would save us on the cap.

Woodley is having a pretty good season. He's our best pass rusher.

Timmons is also having a pretty good season.

I wouldn't cut Miller. He's our best blocker and he's Ben's safety valve when he needs to check down. He's probably got the best hands on the team.

I wouldn't cut Brown either. That's just stupid talk.

[Seven]

Why on earth would you want to release Miller/Brown/Timmons? The others I can sort of understand, but those three guys are cornerstones. I love Ike, but he's having his worst year ever. Woodley is having a solid year. Not for how much he's being paid, but in general he's playing okay. I don't think Polamalu will be back next year.

[Craic]

I'm half tempted to go back and find the threads where I suggested we cut/trade Troy P. last offseason. People thought I was insane.

[steelreserve]

Why on earth would you want to release Miller/Brown/Timmons? The others I can sort of understand, but those three guys are cornerstones. I love Ike, but he's having his worst year ever. Woodley is having a solid year. Not for how much he's being paid, but in general he's playing okay. I don't think Polamalu will be back next year.

The entire point would be to get rid of what is quickly amounting to about $70 million a year in salary plus prorated signing bonus funny money. I'm well aware that those guys are all good players, but at some point you just cannot afford to eat that amount of cap space every year. Getting competitive again means fixing the cap problems, and yes, some of that is going to hurt. The entire point of the salary cap is to make successful teams let go of players that they don't want to let go of, or if they insist on holding on to them, to make them bad by strangling the other positions. Which is exactly what this is.

Take Timmons, for example. He's a strong spot on the roster, but is it $10 million worth of strength, and even if so, can you afford it at the expense of having a question mark at CB or a weak defensive line? Those are the kinds of things that are coming back to hit us hard, and we'd be foolish not to consider the cost/benefit for every guy at position. My solution is obviously way drastic and would never be allowed to happen in real life, but at this point you have to think about any/all of them.

[Psycho Ward 86]

I'm half tempted to go back and find the threads where I suggested we cut/trade Troy P. last offseason. People thought I was insane.

If we had:

1) Resigned keenan lewis
2) Actually had depth at safety

i think i might agree with you for monetary purposes. But we did neither. I mean, clark is basically done. He's 34 years old and showing it. We probably wont resign him. Who would we even start in that scenario? Shamarko Thomas and Will Allen (Who had just come off the cowboys after a disastrous short campaign)?

[steelreserve]

If we had:

1) Resigned keenan lewis
2) Actually had depth at safety

i think i might agree with you for monetary purposes. But we did neither. I mean, clark is basically done. He's 34 years old and showing it. We probably wont resign him. Who would we even start in that scenario? Shamarko Thomas and Will Allen (Who had just come off the cowboys after a disastrous short campaign)?

I'm with you 100% on all of the above.

Although it should be said, the reality in this day and age is that you need a few guys like Will Allen starting. Guys who are maybe slightly above-average, not big-play guys, but hopefully experienced enough that they won't fuck up too badly, and most importantly, they fill the position for $2M instead of $10M. Allen filled that role pretty well for us last year, although now who knows. Larry Foote was another one. You probably don't want the whole defense to look like that, or even all of one area (witness our defensive line), but you can't afford to be super-solid everywhere unless you really hit on a ton of draft picks, which obviously we haven't.

[Psycho Ward 86]

I'm with you 100% on all of the above.

Although it should be said, the reality in this day and age is that you need a few guys like Will Allen starting. Guys who are maybe slightly above-average, not big-play guys, but hopefully experienced enough that they won't fuck up too badly, and most importantly, they fill the position for $2M instead of $10M. Allen filled that role pretty well for us last year, although now who knows. Larry Foote was another one. You probably don't want the whole defense to look like that, or even all of one area (witness our defensive line), but you can't afford to be super-solid everywhere unless you really hit on a ton of draft picks, which obviously we haven't.

right on. I think the part we got waaaay overzealous about was locking up every damn good player on big 2nd/3rd contracts until we couldnt anymore.

and hell, when you really look at the superstars/secret superstars we've had in the recent past, and then you look at what kind of superstars/secret superstars we have now, we havent really come close to breaking even from a talent perspective:

Deshea Townsend
Aaron Smith
Casey Hampton
Chris Hoke
Hines Ward
James Harrison
James Farrior
Maybe Max Starks when he started coming on?
(Thought about maybe adding Willie Parker to this, but then id feel like im trolling :chuckle:)

Then you look at our fine, established young talents on the roster today

Lawrence Timmons
Antonio Brown
Maurkice Pouncey

Thats literally all of them if you ask me.

Then you have this huge laundry list of guys that arent established, but look like they are on the verge of being strong starters:

Cam Heyward
Leveon Bell
David Decastro
Shamarko Thomas
Ziggy Hood?

And then these fools who have just disappointed (if you're counting up to this point of the season), or been cut because of such reasons:

Emmanuel Sanders
Cortez Allen
Steve Mclendon
Marcus Gilbert
Mike Adams
Rashard Mendenhall
Alameda Taamu

Thats a lot of bodies not performing how they're supposed to. And its definitely worth noting the number of guys who were considered leaders for us on that 1st list compared to now.

[NCSteeler]

Too many high paid guys on 2nd and 3rd contracts . Look at Seattle I think their entire starting line up on Offense is less than 20% of the cap, which is why they had plenty of money to paly FA market adn bring in some difference makers. Many of their O starters are on 1st contracts and some draft post rookie wage scale, which certainly helps alleviate the oops we missed.

- - - Updated - - -


right on. I think the part we got waaaay overzealous about was locking up every damn good player on big 2nd/3rd contracts until we couldnt anymore.

and hell, when you really look at the superstars/secret superstars we've had in the recent past, and then you look at what kind of superstars/secret superstars we have now, we havent really come close to breaking even from a talent perspective:

Deshea Townsend
Aaron Smith
Casey Hampton
Chris Hoke
Hines Ward
James Harrison
James Farrior
Maybe Max Starks when he started coming on?
(Thought about maybe adding Willie Parker to this, but then id feel like im trolling :chuckle:)

Then you look at our fine, established young talents on the roster today

Lawrence Timmons
Antonio Brown
Maurkice Pouncey

Thats literally all of them if you ask me.

Then you have this huge laundry list of guys that arent established, but look like they are on the verge of being strong starters:

Cam Heyward
Leveon Bell
David Decastro
Shamarko Thomas
Ziggy Hood?

And then these fools who have just disappointed (if you're counting up to this point of the season), or been cut because of such reasons:

Emmanuel Sanders
Cortez Allen
Steve Mclendon
Marcus Gilbert
Mike Adams
Rashard Mendenhall
Alameda Taamu

Thats a lot of bodies not performing how they're supposed to. And its definitely worth noting the number of guys who were considered leaders for us on that 1st list compared to now.

Hard to say McClendon disappointed. an Undrafted guy from Troy was never supposed to be a starter anyhow. A true 3-4 NT is most precisely what this defense lacks, it fixes alot of issues all at the same time.

[Psycho Ward 86]

Hard to say McClendon disappointed. an Undrafted guy from Troy was never supposed to be a starter anyhow. A true 3-4 NT is most precisely what this defense lacks, it fixes alot of issues all at the same time.

yeah you're right. i guess i kind of meant that there were high expectations of him after how well he did in limited playing time last year

[NJarhead]

yeah you're right. i guess i kind of meant that there were high expectations of him after how well he did in limited playing time last year

He made an impact every time he went out there the previous few seasons. Not sure why that's changed. Is it him, or supporting cast? *shrugs*

[NCSteeler]

yeah you're right. i guess i kind of meant that there were high expectations of him after how well he did in limited playing time last year

Agreed, we had high expectations, in reality too high. He played well in sub packages and i think would make excellent trade bait for a 4-3 team, but the D still needs a true NT.

[steelreserve]

Agreed, we had high expectations, in reality too high. He played well in sub packages and i think would make excellent trade bait for a 4-3 team, but the D still needs a true NT.

What the D needs is a 4-3 if you ask me. Being so rigid in a scheme has cost us a TON, both financially and in the draft, and is a huge part of the problem IMO. Back before the 3-4 was the "it" thing, we could get (and keep) the players we needed without spending a fortune, or reaching with #1 and #2 picks. Trying to force it really got us in trouble. Spending $10M on pass rushers - on BOTH sides of the field, no less - taking role-player DEs #1; when has that ever worked?

We make such a big deal about taking the "best player available" in the draft, but except for DeCastro, when it was so obvious it practically smacked you in the face, I'm having a hard time thinking of when we've actually done that under the current regime. We force it and it doesn't work.

[ALLD]

If the trend continues we are set up to pick the best NT in the draft.

[Psycho Ward 86]

If the trend continues we are set up to pick the best NT in the draft.

Louis Nix?