Robinson: Time nears for Steelers to decide on Roethlisberger extension

[stillers4me]

The Steelers (http://triblive.com/sports/steelers/) added an extra salary cap expert, Samir Suleiman, to pair with Omar Khan, the football administrative director who has interviewed for general manager jobs. The extra manpower might be needed to assist general manager Kevin Colbert and coach Mike Tomlin in sorting out what figures to be the Steelers' busiest and most-complicated offseason in a long time.

And it all starts with Ben Roethlisberger................


Read more: http://triblive.com/sports/-topstories/4962083-74/steelers-cap-million#ixzz2javhHWBV

[Godfather]

Trade Ben to Arizona for Patrick Peterson. We get a great young shutdown corner to shore up our defense. Arizona gets another ex-Steeler. Ben gets to play for Arians.

:chuckle:

[Steeldude]

The Steelers need to do a better job at evaluating talent and how much that talent is worth.

[86WARD]

You think? Lol.

[Edman]

This team is going nowhere with Ben.

Ship his mediocrity off to Arizona.

[SteelMayhem72]

This team is going nowhere with Ben.

Ship his mediocrity off to Arizona.

Im sure Ben wouldnt mind..he will be back with Arians!

[steelerdude15]

This team is going nowhere with Ben.

Ship his mediocrity off to Arizona.

What a great idea.... So let me ask you, who do we replace him with? What college quarterback is worth drafting at this point?

[fansince'76]

This team is going nowhere with Ben.

Ship his mediocrity off to Arizona.

Still insisting that Ben is the ONLY problem with this team?

Get real, please.

That's why I continue to say that many in this fanbase deserve another Stoudt/Malone/Brister/Stewart/Maddox.

[Count Steeler]

What a great idea.... So let me ask you, who do we replace him with? What college quarterback is worth drafting at this point?

The way I see it, you have 2-3 years to find the next franchise QB. We need next year to clear the dead money off our books. Go young. 1st term contracts only on this team for the next 2 years. Probably go 2-14 again next year. That means two high drafts 2014, 2015 and maybe 2016. If we trade our vets and stockpile picks, it may happen sooner.

[steelerdude15]

The way I see it, you have 2-3 years to find the next franchise QB. We need next year to clear the dead money off our books. Go young. 1st term contracts only on this team for the next 2 years. Probably go 2-14 again next year. That means two high drafts 2014, 2015 and maybe 2016. If we trade our vets and stockpile picks, it may happen sooner.

Once again, what college quarterback is worth drafting at this point?

[fansince'76]

The way I see it, you have 2-3 years to find the next franchise QB.

Considering this team's track record in that department, I'd say that's being overly optimistic. Took us 2 decades+ the last time we tried replacing one.

But if I'm Ben, I'm probably requesting a trade at this point. Why continue to get the shit kicked out of himself behind substandard offensive lines year after year only to continue to be berated by a largely hypercritical and unappreciative fanbase that has historically been rough on QBs anyway? Do people really think that Bradshaw didn't have a reason for dissing Pittsburgh for a good 20 years after he retired?

If I'm Ben, my attitude at this point is "Who needs it?"

[Lambert_Loonie]

Once again, what college quarterback is worth drafting at this point?
That's a question that anyone who wants to trade or cut Ben can't answer. Speaking for myself, I don't think Landry Jones could take us to a Super Bowl but with the right OC and a better o-line he could do well.

[Shoes]

Hey, we only gave up 610 yards tonight! :chuckle:

[steelerdude15]

That's a question that anyone who wants to trade or cut Ben can't answer. Speaking for myself, I don't think Landry Jones could take us to a Super Bowl but with the right OC and a better o-line he could do well.

I think Landry would make a good back up, but that's it. That's just my opinion though.

[Count Steeler]

Once again, what college quarterback is worth drafting at this point?

Don't know. Not a draft guru. Thing is, it doesn't have to be this year or next year. Jones or Gradkowski are more than capable of getting us to 2-14.

[Shoes]

Don't know. Not a draft guru. Thing is, it doesn't have to be this year or next year. Jones or Gradkowski are more than capable of getting us to 2-14.

:chuckle:

[Count Steeler]

That's a question that anyone who wants to trade or cut Ben can't answer. Speaking for myself, I don't think Landry Jones could take us to a Super Bowl but with the right OC and a better o-line he could do well.

Is Ben going to have that opportunity in Pittsburgh? I don't think we make it back to the SB with the current regime. I am thinking a good 3-4 year rebuild. Puts Ben at 35. Don't know if he will still have "it" at that point either.

[Psycho Ward 86]

i want ben extended to give the salary cap some breathing room and then traded around the age of 34...if he even makes it that far. ben is a ticking time bomb. we need to get rid of him, and get something for him before he retires/gets cut/gets a career ending injury. I think its unrealistic to think he will be both productive and healthy for much longer

[Lambert_Loonie]

I think Landry would make a good back up, but that's it. That's just my opinion though.

I don't think he's even played a full preseason game, let alone taken a regular season snap. Only way to find out is to let him play.
When Jon Gruden was grilling all the big name college QB's before the draft, he was pretty high on Landry. Said the only reason his draft stock fell was because he got complacent in his college offense. Not sure if that's good or bad. :P


Is Ben going to have that opportunity in Pittsburgh? I don't think we make it back to the SB with the current regime. I am thinking a good 3-4 year rebuild. Puts Ben at 35. Don't know if he will still have "it" at that point either.

Honestly, I don't see Ben taking another snap after he turns 35. The injuries are going to take their toll on him and he's going to hang his cleats up.I'd be glad to be wrong and would rather see him play at a high level into his late 30s like every other Hall of Fame caliber QB but I just don't think it's likely.

[Count Steeler]

i want ben extended to give the salary cap some breathing room and then traded around the age of 34...if he even makes it that far. ben is a ticking time bomb. we need to get rid of him, and get something for him before he retires/gets cut/gets a career ending injury. I think its unrealistic to think he will be both productive and healthy for much longer

An extension won't help the cap for any dead money. Plus, you have to be careful with his contract, might make him unattractive in a trade. It is sad that the Steelers have come to this. In such a short time. I just don't see a reversal without a major overhaul.

[steel9guy]

Still insisting that Ben is the ONLY problem with this team?

Get real, please.

That's why I continue to say that many in this fanbase deserve another Stoudt/Malone/Brister/Stewart/Maddox.

Exactly. In my opinion I don't ever want to see Ben in another uniform. He's not the problem. If he had a decent oline maybe things would be better. Ben is the last thing this team needs to lose right now.

[Shoes]

An extension won't help the cap for any dead money. Plus, you have to be careful with his contract, might make him unattractive in a trade. It is sad that the Steelers have come to this. In such a short time. I just don't see a reversal without a major overhaul.


I think one could see it coming in years pasted….the bandaids have just run out. Like Tomlin's talk.

[Count Steeler]

Exactly. In my opinion I don't ever want to see Ben in another uniform. He's not the problem. If he had a decent oline maybe things would be better. Ben is the last thing this team needs to lose right now.

Yeah, but let's be fair to Ben. I don't think this team gets back to the SB in his career.

[stillers4me]

Exactly. In my opinion I don't ever want to see Ben in another uniform. He's not the problem. If he had a decent oline maybe things would be better. Ben is the last thing this team needs to lose right now.

DING DING DING! We have a winner!

[Lambert_Loonie]

Exactly. In my opinion I don't ever want to see Ben in another uniform. He's not the problem. If he had a decent oline maybe things would be better. Ben is the last thing this team needs to lose right now.

On the field, IMO Ben is one of the few positives. he's certainly doing his part. But his contract... and as bad a spot the Steelers are in with the salary cap... ugh.

Trust me, I'm one of the last guys you'll meet that wants to see Ben play for anyone else. But sentimentality won't get you anywhere in this league.

[salamander]

Our problems go way beyond just Ben.

[steel9guy]

Yeah I agree with the salary cap issue and the fact that changes are coming to resolve that but I've said the whole year that I'd rather lose with Ben and know we have a chance since he "usually" makes things exciting than have a Kordell Stewart, Landry Jones or Tommy Maddox playing. Ben is a tough guy and I think he can play 4-5 years yet. Also believe this team can get the ship righted and hopefully let Ben have an Elway finish to his career. Maybe I'm thinking to positive but the team can be turned around quickly if the right people make the right decisions which might not happen.

[Lambert_Loonie]

Yeah I agree with the salary cap issue and the fact that changes are coming to resolve that but I've said the whole year that I'd rather lose with Ben and know we have a chance since he "usually" makes things exciting than have a Kordell Stewart, Landry Jones or Tommy Maddox playing. Ben is a tough guy and I think he can play 4-5 years yet. Also believe this team can get the ship righted and hopefully let Ben have an Elway finish to his career. Maybe I'm thinking to positive but the team can be turned around quickly if the right people make the right decisions which might not happen.

So what the heck's Landry Jones done to get lumped with Kordell or Tommy Maddox? I get the point you're trying to make, but at the very least, Landry hasn't even gotten a shot to be a game 1 starter on this team. Lumping him into that crowd really isn't fair to him.

[GBMelBlount]

Considering this team's track record in that department, I'd say that's being overly optimistic. Took us 2 decades+ the last time we tried replacing one.

But if I'm Ben, I'm probably requesting a trade at this point. Why continue to get the shit kicked out of himself behind substandard offensive lines year after year only to continue to be berated by a largely hypercritical and unappreciative fanbase that has historically been rough on QBs anyway? Do people really think that Bradshaw didn't have a reason for dissing Pittsburgh for a good 20 years after he retired?

If I'm Ben, my attitude at this point is "Who needs it?"

How many truly top tier quarterbacks have even been drafted in the last 10 years?

Statistically it is very unlikely.

[steel9guy]

So what the heck's Landry Jones done to get lumped with Kordell or Tommy Maddox? I get the point you're trying to make, but at the very least, Landry hasn't even gotten a shot to be a game 1 starter on this team. Lumping him into that crowd really isn't fair to him.

Got excited with my point. Insert any other mediocre QB that we've had in that slot. I'm just trying to say that the Bradshaw's and Roethlisberger's should not be taken lightly even if we think they will never win with us again. I still think we can make a run at it if we can hang on to Ben for a few years.

[Mistah Q]

Ben is the least of our problems. He's our anti-problem. He's one of very very few things right on this team - he's a great Quarterback, and it will take decades to find another like him. I would hate seeing him in another uniform.

But I think it's time to trade him anyways. A fresh start with a team that manages its O-line properly would do him good. This team almost isn't fair... theoretically he has the potential to be an all-time great. But now we are not only not good, but nowhere even close... and while we're stuck with a handful of massive contracts... there's no chance that we can be that team in the few years he has left to play.

It's in the best interest of both parties (Steelers and Ben), probably, to move him.

If that means a couple years of sucking, instead of a decade of being mediocre, so be it. I'm a fan of this team and I well understand the argument for not wanting to lose key players, not wanting to lose any given game... but I'm also quite interested in the long-term health of the franchise.

Which isn't going to improve with Tomlin around. If it takes a couple seasons of being really bad to get rid of him, moving Ben makes sense from that standpoint too.

[steelreserve]

Considering this team's track record in that department, I'd say that's being overly optimistic. Took us 2 decades+ the last time we tried replacing one.

But if I'm Ben, I'm probably requesting a trade at this point. Why continue to get the shit kicked out of himself behind substandard offensive lines year after year only to continue to be berated by a largely hypercritical and unappreciative fanbase that has historically been rough on QBs anyway? Do people really think that Bradshaw didn't have a reason for dissing Pittsburgh for a good 20 years after he retired?

If I'm Ben, my attitude at this point is "Who needs it?"

That's the one thing I take issue with. We didn't "try to replace" a franchise QB for 20 years, we dicked around with low draft picks and journeymen. We took a guy in the first round, and everything was good. Odds say we need one or two tries with high picks before we find another guy who's good enough.

That said, Ben is one drop in the bucket as far as our problems are concerned. We've got a lot of other dead weight contracts that we need to get rid of before we can even start rebuilding. Ben's contract is actually below market value for a franchise QB; he signed it right before another big spike in salaries.

This is all mostly irrelevant, because as far as I can tell, we pretty much HAVE to extend Ben within a year or two if we don't want a $35 million cap hit coming our way from all the restructuring. Maybe if we do it now while the team sucks, we'll get a better deal, who knows.

[Dwinsgames]

That's the one thing I take issue with. We didn't "try to replace" a franchise QB for 20 years, we dicked around with low draft picks and journeymen. We took a guy in the first round, and everything was good.

Mark Malone .....

[Edman]

Still insisting that Ben is the ONLY problem with this team?

Get real, please.

That's why I continue to say that many in this fanbase deserve another Stoudt/Malone/Brister/Stewart/Maddox.

Still Insisting Ben is the solution? You get real. Loss of veteran talent, downgraded defense, Younger Team devoid of leadership.

How does our leader respond? More of the same mediocrity. This time he has no Lebeau Defense to carry him to Super Bowls like 2005, 2008, and 2010. You saw it. It's a know historical fact since he was drafted. When the Defense blows, or when he's required to put the team on his back, Ben doesn't win shit. I didn't want to believe it either, but it's true.

At least Steeler fans were smart enough to recognize mediocrity when they saw it with Malone/Stewart/Tomczak,etc. Ben has pulled the wool over everyone's eyes. He was decent a long time ago, but he's since regressed to mediocrity.

Hey, we blew chunks yesterday and all season, but at least Ol' Benny got his garbage stats when the game was well in hand. Classic Ben Roethlisberger. Puts you in a hole early, and puts up garbage points so people like you will pull out the classic excuse "He's the only reason we were in this game!" No you fools. He was the reason why the Steelers were put in a deep hole early with momentum-killing sacks and turnovers. The Defense is problematic enough, Ben just cripples the Offense in half.

[NJarhead]

This team is going nowhere with Ben.

Ship his mediocrity off to Arizona.

Something tells me you weren't around for what preceded Ben.

[plenewken]

At least Steeler fans were smart enough to recognize mediocrity when they saw it with Malone/Stewart/Tomczak,etc. Ben has pulled the wool over everyone's eyes. He was decent a long time ago, but he's since regressed to mediocrity.

Hey, we blew chunks yesterday and all season, but at least Ol' Benny got his garbage stats when the game was well in hand. Classic Ben Roethlisberger. Puts you in a hole early, and puts up garbage points so people like you will pull out the classic excuse "He's the only reason we were in this game!" No you fools. He was the reason why the Steelers were put in a deep hole early with momentum-killing sacks and turnovers. The Defense is problematic enough, Ben just cripples the Offense in half.

I wholeheartedly agree with you.

[Edman]

Something tells me you weren't around for what preceded Ben.

Just because they were bad QB wise before Ben doesn't mean they're going anywhere with him NOW. What does Stewart or Tomczak have to do with the fact that Ben has regressed heavily to the point where he doesn't even make a difference anymore?

Remember the classic Steelers fan excuse? "If we had Ben we could've WON."

Well, we have him. We're 2-6 and looked pathetic doing so. WITH BEN.

The Good Old Days with Ben are over. Long over.

He's regressed to mediocre. He gives this team no chance to win. He only decides to play well when the Steelers are in a hole, and when we need him the most, he fails. 27-24. Steelers need a drive to maintain momentum. Ben overthrows a wide-open Heath Miller. It downspiraled from there.

[NJarhead]

Just because they were bad QB wise before Ben doesn't mean they're going anywhere with him NOW. What does Stewart or Tomczak have to do with the fact that Ben has regressed heavily to the point where he doesn't even make a difference anymore?
Remember the classic Steelers fan excuse? "If we had Ben we could've WON."

Well, we have him. We're 2-6 and looked pathetic doing so. WITH BEN.

The Good Old Days with Ben are over. Long over.

He's regressed to mediocre. He gives this team no chance to win. He only decides to play well when the Steelers are in a hole, and when we need him the most, he fails. 27-24. Steelers need a drive to maintain momentum. Ben overthrows a wide-open Heath Miller. It downspiraled from there.

That is not a fact. That is your opinion. In-my-opinion, it's a silly one. Ben hasn't "regressed." Where are you getting this shit from??? Our defense gave up 55 points and you think our QB is regressing??? C'mon man!

[Psycho Ward 86]

That is not a fact. That is your opinion. In-my-opinion, it's a silly one. Ben hasn't "regressed." Where are you getting this shit from??? Our defense gave up 55 points and you think our QB is regressing??? C'mon man!

dont fool yourself. the defense played historically bad, but that doesnt mean the other side of the ball played so well. That was plenty of garbage stats we put up after the middle of the 3rd quarter. Statistically similiar to the new england/steelers game in 2010. Do you seriously think ben played well back then as well when he threw 387 yards and 3 td's? hell no

[NJarhead]

dont fool yourself. the defense played historically bad, but that doesnt mean the other side of the ball played so well. That was plenty of garbage stats we put up after the middle of the 3rd quarter. Statistically similiar to the new england/steelers game in 2010. Do you seriously think ben played well back then as well when he threw 387 yards and 3 td's? hell no

So you're in agreement that Ben has "regressed?" And you tell me not to fool myself? Please.

I don't think the Patriots defense was playing "prevent" in the middle of the third quarter either. So, any "garbage stats" came later and they don't account for the majority of Ben's stats either. Ben's second pick, was a "garbage stat."

[fansince'76]

Still Insisting Ben is the solution? You get real. Loss of veteran talent, downgraded defense, Younger Team devoid of leadership.

No, unlike you, I simply refuse to make him a scapegoat for everything that's wrong with this team. And there's PLENTY. I realize that many Steelers fans love their scapegoats to pin everything that goes wrong on. And since the most popular and convenient one of all has been out of the loop for more than two years now, their ire has naturally turned to a guy who had the "nerve" to be friendly with said scapegoat. It started with Ben's perceived "rebellion" against Haley and has persisted since.


How does our leader respond? More of the same mediocrity. This time he has no Lebeau Defense to carry him to Super Bowls like 2005, 2008, and 2010. You saw it. It's a know historical fact since he was drafted. When the Defense blows, or when he's required to put the team on his back, Ben doesn't win shit. I didn't want to believe it either, but it's true.

Bullshit. Cowher's tenure here is a testament to what happens when you try to win with a strong running game and defense and a mediocre QB. THAT is when you don't win shit. Guess you forgot the way Roethlisberger lit up Cincy, Indy and Denver on the road in the '05 playoffs? Or how our stellar D gave up 300+ passing yards and a double-digit lead in the 4th quarter of Super Bowl XLIII before Ben pulled their fat out of the fire at the end? Yes, of course you do, because it doesn't support your argument.

Without Roethlisberger, we're still working on Lombardi #5. Bottom line.


At least Steeler fans were smart enough to recognize mediocrity when they saw it with Malone/Stewart/Tomczak,etc. Ben has pulled the wool over everyone's eyes. He was decent a long time ago, but he's since regressed to mediocrity.

And there's a very large contingent of Steelers fans that don't truly know (too young) or simply do not remember what mediocrity under center really is. That's why I say they deserve another QB like Stoudt/Malone/Brister, etc. Maybe then they'll finally see what we've had in Roethlisberger and appreciate it. That's also what it took for many to finally appreciate Bradshaw...for Malone to come running to the sideline wearing a big shit-eating grin and yucking it up after throwing yet another pick.


Hey, we blew chunks yesterday and all season, but at least Ol' Benny got his garbage stats when the game was well in hand. Classic Ben Roethlisberger. Puts you in a hole early, and puts up garbage points so people like you will pull out the classic excuse "He's the only reason we were in this game!" No you fools. He was the reason why the Steelers were put in a deep hole early with momentum-killing sacks and turnovers. The Defense is problematic enough, Ben just cripples the Offense in half.

Garbage stats? Yeah, those two 3rd quarter TDs he threw to pull us even at 24 sure were garbage. Again, please. Blaming Ben as the primary reason for the loss yesterday is laughable.

[NJarhead]

Garbage stats? Yeah, those two 3rd quarter TDs he threw to pull us even at 24 sure were garbage. Again, please. Blaming Ben as the primary reason for the loss yesterday is laughable.

"Laughable's" a word. I admire your restraint. :chuckle:

[steeldawg]

The salary cap argument really cant be used when we are talking about getting rid of ben. Anyone we get who would be good enough to be a franchise qb is going to command big money. Unless your planning on trading or releasing every qb we draft at the end of their rookie contract. does anyone really believe we can just plug a rookie into our offense and he is going to be successful?

[Psycho Ward 86]

So you're in agreement that Ben has "regressed?" And you tell me not to fool myself? Please.

I don't think the Patriots defense was playing "prevent" in the middle of the third quarter either. So, any "garbage stats" came later and they don't account for the majority of Ben's stats either. Ben's second pick, was a "garbage stat."

nope, not at all. I think Ben is the same Ben. I just think people need to be reminded that this unrealistic anomaly that people have come up with the last couple of years that "As long as we have Ben we can win games" is completely false and really is a statement based on little to no evidence. When has Ben ever had a horrid surrounding cast (as a team)? Never. Horrible O-line? He's had that for pretty much his whole career, but other than that this team has had the tools to win pretty much every where else.

The only drive where the patriots were still really blitzing and playing real defense was on the drive where Cotchery got his 3rd TD. Worth noting that Ninkovich and Gregory missed a large chunk of the game as well so it couldve been even worse for us. Ben had some drops from receivers, but he had even more horrible throws, even with time throughout the game. Dont make ben out to be a god of streetball just because he finally led the offense to more than 27 points (lol, which is really nothing in the league anymore) and finally had his 2nd multi-TD game of the season (yes, you read that correctly).

this board has me shaking my head every week when we go from 'blame the offense' to 'blame the defense' to 'blame both' and repeat. As if one bad game by one side of the ball and one pretty good game by the other means the defense is absolutely worthless and the offense is leading the charge. talk about knee jerk reactions.

the ravens gave up an NFL record number of TD passes to start the season and now they're in the upper 1/3 in most every defensive category. Probably time to stop worrying about winning and losing at this point imo, and start looking more for strong individual performances from players that are actually going to have a part in our future.

[NJarhead]

nope, not at all. I think Ben is the same Ben. I just think people need to be reminded that this unrealistic anomaly that people have come up with the last couple of years that "As long as we have Ben we can win games" is completely false and really is a statement based on little to no evidence. When has Ben ever had a horrid surrounding cast (as a team)? Never. Horrible O-line? He's had that for pretty much his whole career, but other than that this team has had the tools to win pretty much every where else.

Ben's had a crappy O-Line virtually his whole career. He's also won us more games than lost us. And there is plenty of evidence of that. We, in fact, have a better chance of winning/competing with Ben than without him. I'm baffled by any thoughts to the contrary.


The only drive where the patriots were still really blitzing and playing real defense was on the drive with Cotchery's 3rd TD. Worth noting that Ninkovich and Gregory missed a large chunk of the game as well so it couldve been even worse for us. Ben had some drops from receivers, but he had even more horrible throws, even with time throughout the game. Dont make ben out to be a god of streetball just because he finally led the offense to more than 27 points (lol, which is really nothing in the league anymore) and finally had his 2nd multi-TD game of the season (yes, you read that correctly).

What's blitzing got to do with anything? So they had more folks in coverage, we still have a shit line and Ben never ran. The Steelers tying the game up in the third qtr is NOT garbage time. I've never heard the 3rd quarter ever referred to as garbage time. That's asinine!


this board has me shaking my head every week when we go from 'blame the offense' to 'blame the defense' to 'blame both' and repeat. As if one bad game by one side of the ball and one pretty good game by the other means the defense is absolutely worthless and the offense is leading the charge. talk about knee jerk reactions.

Well, sometimes it's one side and sometimes it's the other. It used to be that one could pick up for the other, but not so much these days. But yea, this board has me shaking my head too. Just for different reasons.


the ravens gave up an NFL record number of TD passes to start the season and now they're in the upper 1/3 in most every defensive category. Probably time to start worrying about winning and losing at this point imo, and start looking more for strong individual performances from players that are actually going to have a part in our future.

Not sure why you mentioned the Ravens, but I agree that we need to develop players. I just wouldn't expect the Steelers to give up competing. They're going to try to win each week with the players they think give them the best chance.

[Psycho Ward 86]

Ben's had a crappy O-Line virtually his whole career. He's also won us more games than lost us. And there is plenty of evidence of that. We, in fact, have a better chance of winning/competing with Ben than without him. I'm baffled by any thoughts to the contrary.



What's blitzing got to do with anything? So they had more folks in coverage, we still have a shit line and Ben never ran. The Steelers tying the game up in the third qtr is NOT garbage time. I've never heard the 3rd quarter ever referred to as garbage time. That's asinine!



Well, sometimes it's one side and sometimes it's the other. It used to be that one could pick up for the other, but not so much these days. But yea, this board has me shaking my head too. Just for different reasons.



Not sure why you mentioned the Ravens, but I agree that we need to develop players. I just wouldn't expect the Steelers to give up competing. They're going to try to win each week with the players they think give them the best chance.

of course we have a better chance of competing with ben. im also baffled by any thoughts to the contrary because im not part of that crowd. i agree with that assessment, i just dont agree with the firestorm of people around here that used to say all the time that we can win as long as we have ben.

i also said its worth noting that gregory and ninkovich were out for a large part of the game, but i suppose that flew over one's head. Not to mention the new england defense was short their 2 original starting defensive tackles and best linebacker the entire game. Of course im disappointed by the defensive giving up the most points and yards in a game in team history, but i dont let the offense off the hook for doing less than it could have. With all of the aforementioned factors playing in, I am quite unimpressed by our offensive efforts. i think expectations need to be raised if 31 points is considered so imrpessive against such a terribly battle-scarred defense

[NJarhead]

of course we have a better chance of competing with ben. im also baffled by any thoughts to the contrary because im not part of that crowd. i agree with that assessment, i just dont agree with the firestorm of people around here that used to say all the time that we can win as long as we have ben.

i also said its worth noting that gregory and ninkovich were out for a large part of the game, but i suppose that flew over one's head. Not to mention the new england defense was short their 2 original starting defensive tackles and best linebacker the entire game. Of course im disappointed by the defensive giving up the most points and yards in a game in team history, but i dont let the offense off the hook for doing less than it could have. With all of the aforementioned factors playing in, I am quite unimpressed by our offensive efforts. i think expectations need to be raised if 31 points is considered so imrpessive against such a terribly battle-scarred defense

We're operating without some key players too. But those facts don't make our efforts in the third "garbage time."

I'm not impressed with our offense either. We ONLY seem to score when behind. We seemingly pussyfoot around UNTIL we're behind. At this point, we've got nothing less to lose so I'm of the belief of going balls out from now until the season is over. Let's see what we're really capable of and where our true weaknesses are.

[bayz101]

Not surprised to see Edman active in this thread. I have a feeling that if we would have won he'd be silent.

[Edman]

I'm not scapegoating Roethlisberger. Unlike the homers, I'm not recognizing Ben as some infallible player. Like the shining light in this crappy season. Ben certainly won the Ravens and Jets games, am I right?

Ben's not the problem or at least a part of it? Okay, Ben fans. Where in his game do you see THE SOLUTION? What did Ben do yesterday that warranted praise besides yet again, put up garbage stats against a Prevent Patriots Defense? Where was the great Ben Roethlisberger on 3rd down when it was 27-24 and we had a chance? Choking and overthrowing Wide Open recievers. Again. Two bonehead turnovers to start the game, putting the Steelers in a hole early.

Whee, we scored the most points we ever had all season! It's classic Ben R. He can't play halfway competently until the Steelers are way down.

If he's not the solution, he's a part of the problem. Simple as that. The whole team is riddled with problems. Ben is just another rusted cog in the works. You may be impressed with garbage stats in blowout losses, but I'm not.

[NJarhead]

Not surprised to see Edman active in this thread. I have a feeling that if we would have won he'd be silent.

"They" all reside in the same cave and only come out after a loss or in hard times. Doomsday opportunists. If they were ever actually in a locker room, we'd call them "cancers."

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I'm not scapegoating Roethlisberger. Unlike the homers, I'm not recognizing Ben as some infallible player. Like the shining light in this crappy season. Ben certainly won the Ravens and Jets games, am I right?

Ben's not the problem or at least a part of it? Okay, Ben fans. Where in his game do you see THE SOLUTION? What did Ben do yesterday that warranted praise besides yet again, put up garbage stats against a Prevent Patriots Defense? Where was the great Ben Roethlisberger on 3rd down when it was 27-24 and we had a chance? Overthrowing Wide Open recievers. Again.

Two bonehead turnovers to start the game, putting the Steelers in a hole early. Yeah, he's not a problem.

If he's not the solution, he's a part of the problem. Simple as that. The whole team is riddled with problems. Ben is just another rusted cog in the works.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V3y3QoFnqZc

The third quarter, while tying the game, is not now, nor was it ever, considered "garbage time." Garbage time came much later and there were no notable stats.

PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE call into Tunch and Wolf and talk that shit. And let us know when you'll be on. You've apparently got no respect for the intelligence of your fellow fans, so maybe you'll respond to the laughter you receive from those in the know.

[Edman]

"They" all reside in the same cave and only come out after a loss or in hard times. Doomsday opportunists. If they were ever actually in a locker room, we'd call them "cancers."

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The third quarter, while tying the game, is not now, nor was it ever, considered "garbage time." Garbage time came much later and there were no notable stats.

PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE call into Tunch and Wolf and talk that shit. And let us know when you'll be on. You've apparently got no respect for the intelligence of your fellow fans, so maybe you'll respond to the laughter you receive from those in the know.

Tell me how I don't respect the intelligence of "fellow fans". Is it because I'm not impressed with Ben? Because I don't worship at the altar of Roethlisberger? Got it.

I know we're all frustrated and angry in the team right now. Most points given up in Steeler history? Embarrassing Loss? You have every right to be pissed.

I'm just tired of people harping all the blame on other factions of the organization/team and refusing to hold Ben to a degree of accountability. If the Steelers Win it's because of Ben. If the Steelers Lose it must be someone else's fault. That makes no sense.

If he's so "Elite" and such a leader to give this team the best chance to win. Is it wrong to expect better performances from him? I expect him to lead. I expect him to do what he's supposed to do and take this young team on his shoulders and play above "Well he did good enough". Well, Ben's "Good Enough" just isn't enough. 2-6 and the season is just about shot dead.

[NJarhead]

Tell me how I don't respect the intelligence of "fellow fans".


Well, it's either that or ignorance. I was giving you the benefit of the doubt. Do you honestly think that our comeback in the third quarter was "garbage time?" IN THE THIRD QUARTER???? Either you do and you're ignorant, or you know better and you believe us to be.

[Edman]

Well, it's either that or ignorance. I was giving you the benefit of the doubt. Do you honestly think that our comeback in the third quarter was "garbage time?" IN THE THIRD QUARTER???? Either you do and you're ignorant, or you know better and you believe us to be.

All right, it wasn't "garbage time". I was way off wrong there. I'm sorry. But that's still doesn't refute the point that why do the Steelers have to be down BIG until Ben does anything worthwhile? Playing like complete trash until the Steelers were down 14-0. Why does that need to happen?

[Mojouw]

Currently Eli Manning is having a terrible year. Roethlisberger is having on this year. Rivers had one last year. I don't think that an entire draft class of 1st round QB talents suddenly forgot how to play at a high level. What did those terrible years all have in common? A supporting cast of awful -- particularly at the offensive line.

Mess with a QB's timing (either real or imagined) enough and the wheels will come off for anybody.

Not renewing Ben's contract when it is up would be one of the worst decisions this franchise ever made. There is simply no debate.

[Edman]

Currently Eli Manning is having a terrible year. Roethlisberger is having on this year. Rivers had one last year. I don't think that an entire draft class of 1st round QB talents suddenly forgot how to play at a high level. What did those terrible years all have in common? A supporting cast of awful -- particularly at the offensive line.

Mess with a QB's timing (either real or imagined) enough and the wheels will come off for anybody.

Not renewing Ben's contract when it is up would be one of the worst decisions this franchise ever made. There is simply no debate.

The Steelers don't have a choice. Ben's play may have dropped off, but it's not like they can replace him either.

[NJarhead]

All right, it wasn't "garbage time". I was way off wrong there. I'm sorry. But that's still doesn't refute the point that why do the Steelers have to be down BIG until Ben does anything worthwhile? Playing like complete trash until the Steelers were down 14-0. Why does that need to happen?

Why are you putting that on Ben? I agree, we only seem to be able to score when we're playing from behind. That's not on Ben. It strikes me as we're A). too conservative and B). not effective enough to be that conservative.

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The Steelers don't have a choice. Ben's play may have dropped off, but it's not like they can replace him either.

Ben's play has not dropped off. He'll make a bone head play or two, but he does more to win us games than lose us games and you have to take into account him running for his life. It's delicate balance between the time he's afforded by the o-line and the time it takes our WR's to get open. Every once in a while the former is longer than the latter.

[zulater]

On the two first quarter turnovers. On the fumble. Where's the blame for Marcus Gilbert? He's the guy who whiffed on his block entirely. Sure Ben could have done a better job holding on to the ball, but at the time his thought process was downfield trying to convert the 3rd down. Taking a normal sack there wouldn't have been an issue, because we weren't in fg range. So I can see why he was fighting to keep the play alive and his throwing options open.

On the interception. It was either going to be a safety or a blind heave. Want to blame someone, blame Haley for throwing deep out of the end zone behind that line. Guess he thought he would catch them off guard. :crossed: Problem was he didn't and a guy came free up the middle. Ben's in the tackle box so it's either heave it or take the sure safety. At least with the blind heave there was a chance it could work out. :pray:
Ideally he would have thrown the ball out of bounds over top of everyone. But Brown was momentarily open, so when he threw the ball that was what he saw. But he couldn't step into the throw because of the middle rush and he short armed the ball.

I'm not absolving Ben of blame, but the turnovers were more than one person's responsibility.

[vader29]

On the interception. It was either going to be a safety or a blind heave. Want to blame someone, blame Haley for throwing deep out of the end zone behind that line.
Exactly. Where was Haley's favorite play, the bubble screen to give the offense some breathing room there? Maybe they were still stuck using the scripted plays at that point. :mad2:

[steel striker]

Come on man he is the best QB we have had since Bradshaw do we need to list all the names for you? Like FS76 said there are bigger problems then Ben on this team. You did see the defense yesterday? Is Ben perfect? No he did miss throws and, have a few turnovers. He mad alot plays yesterday as well.

[BnG_Hevn]

Did I hear the commentators correctly when they said Ben has lost 5 - 6 fumbles? That is a KILLER.

As for needing a top tier QB to win the SB, all you need do is look at the 2000 Ravens to debunk that idea.

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Still Insisting Ben is the solution? You get real. Loss of veteran talent, downgraded defense, Younger Team devoid of leadership.

How does our leader respond? More of the same mediocrity. This time he has no Lebeau Defense to carry him to Super Bowls like 2005, 2008, and 2010. You saw it. It's a know historical fact since he was drafted. When the Defense blows, or when he's required to put the team on his back, Ben doesn't win shit. I didn't want to believe it either, but it's true.

At least Steeler fans were smart enough to recognize mediocrity when they saw it with Malone/Stewart/Tomczak,etc. Ben has pulled the wool over everyone's eyes. He was decent a long time ago, but he's since regressed to mediocrity.

Hey, we blew chunks yesterday and all season, but at least Ol' Benny got his garbage stats when the game was well in hand. Classic Ben Roethlisberger. Puts you in a hole early, and puts up garbage points so people like you will pull out the classic excuse "He's the only reason we were in this game!" No you fools. He was the reason why the Steelers were put in a deep hole early with momentum-killing sacks and turnovers. The Defense is problematic enough, Ben just cripples the Offense in half.

That is taking it a bit too far. Not any other QB in the league orchestrates that final drive vs Arizona … NOT ANY OTHER QB IN THE LEAGUE.

Wanting to trade Ben is not about getting rid of him, it's about getting rid of his contract / cap hit.

[steelreserve]

As for needing a top tier QB to win the SB, all you need do is look at the 2000 Ravens to debunk that idea.

... or the 2012 Ravens, for that matter! :toofunny:



Seriously, though. We tried that for a long time and proved it was MUCH tougher. I think anyone would agree that if you have the choice to go after a top QB or not, it's a no-brainer.

[Psycho Ward 86]

As for needing a top tier QB to win the SB, all you need do is look at the 2000 Ravens to debunk that idea.


they also had one of the greatest defenses of all time. this defense just gave up the most points and most yards in a game in our team's 80 year history. Time to debunk the possibility of this defense being that strong enough to compensate for a not-so top tier QB? Maybe?

[JayC]

ben is good enough to win a super bowl but i would prefer to let him walk or try to trade him (if that is even possible). i'm just tired of him and dislike him now.

[zulater]

ben is good enough to win a super bowl but i would prefer to let him walk or try to trade him (if that is even possible). i'm just tired of him and dislike him now.

Watch the game again on NFL rewind and maybe you'll appreciate just how excellent he was. Ben might have to be traded, but we're going to wish he hadn't after it's done and we're stuck with one crappy qb to the next.

[Mojouw]

Yes the 2000 Ravens won with an all-time great defense and a "game manager" QB. Name another team since that has done that. I'll wait. You can't. Stop trying. The NFL is now a QB centric league. It all starts and stops with the success and failure of the QB in the league now. Look at what happened in the Chiefs/Bills game. If the Bills even had their 2nd string QB in instead of their rookie 3rd stringer they likely beat the "undefeated" Chiefs. That team is 9-0 and no one really cares because everyone knows that Alex Smith can not push the ball down-field against a good defense. Anyone else remember that NFC championship game against the Saints where the 49'ers simply refused to throw deeper than 8 yards?

Zu is right. Watch the games again. Try not and get all depressed and angry. Ben is playing really well. Earlier this year Polian (who is fairly well respected and knows something about QB play) called Ben's play some of the best he has ever seen. He has placed this entire offense on his back and almost any yards they gain are related to him. Please stop with the "garbage time" arguments. Also they idea that when Ben throws for 300+ yards means the Steelers lose is a classic example of correlation not always being causation. Ben is the least (yes there are some problems) of this team's many problems right now.

Like I said earlier, would you cut/trade Eli Manning? What about Rivers? What about Romo?

[fansince'76]

ben is good enough to win a super bowl but i would prefer to let him walk or try to trade him (if that is even possible). i'm just tired of him and dislike him now.

Careful what you wish for...

[steel9guy]

Careful what you wish for...

I second this. I remember the pre-Ben era. I don't want to return to that till Ben has retired after playing his career in the Black and Gold. Build the team around him.

[steel striker]

I would hate to see the steelers without Ben right now or the next few years because, you think it looks bad now? I'm not trying to blow smoke up his rear but, Ben is one of the best qb's in the NFL. Look at all the plays he pulls out of his you know what. Makes play almost out of nothing some of the so called great qb's would be in deep trouble if they played behind this o-line. I have said this many times this year Ben is not the problem of this team. Mark my words when Ben does leave here (retire, trade, ect) some of you Ben haters will realize what a great QB you had here. I have never seen a QB get so much grief from some fans after throwing 400 yards with four TD's in all of my life. I remember all of the Qb's we have had since Bradshaw and, let me tell you it was hard to watch in the 80's but, I did. So some of you think it would be better with Gradkowski or Jones? Get a grip! Ben is our best option PERIOD!

[Steeldude]

The main problem is the O-line. It's been that way for quite awhile. The team went into the season with two huge question marks at LT and RT. For some odd reason the coaches thought Adams and Gilbert were the answers. The Steelers best RT of late was Flozell Adams. At LT it was Starks. Either find a gem via the draft or put forth some money into finding one in the free agent market. The latter could be difficult due to the poor management of the team's salary cap.

[ALLD]

Ben is just going through the motions. A change of scenery would benefit him. He doesn't have many more seasons to go because his body will soon breakdown where he will not finish seasons which means no playoff chances.

[steelreserve]

Yes the 2000 Ravens won with an all-time great defense and a "game manager" QB. Name another team since that has done that.

The 2002 Buccaneers.

But, your point is still valid. It's much harder to win that way. More likely you'll have a bunch of playoff appearances and then each game is 50-50 depending on whether you actually need a clutch game-winning drive from your QB, so mostly you lose in the second round or the conference championship. Like we did in the '90s, or the 49ers were doing with Alex Smith, or like the Ravens or Bucs were doing apart from their one good run.

And let's not kid ourselves, our defense is in nowhere near good enough shape to take a "win with defense" approach, so that whole argument is pretty much moot. Either we find a franchise QB or we don't.