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Edman
10-20-2013, 06:20 PM
The critics were right. The Defense blows it in the 4th.

I railroaded the Offense for poor situational football, but it's clear the Defense has a problem too. I can't defend this anymore.

blackngldblood
10-20-2013, 06:23 PM
Dude, take a deep breath and enjoy the win....


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SteelerFanInStl
10-20-2013, 06:29 PM
The defense and offense both have problems. No question there. 1 sack and 0 turnovers. Typical game for our defense. Can't stop the opposition in the 4th when we needed it.

Offense can't score TDs, another turnover and dropped passes.

Dwinsgames
10-20-2013, 06:38 PM
you should not lay into the defense for giving up 16 points that partly was the responsibility of the offence (points off of turnovers ) ....

if we take care of the football ourselves the Ravens only put up 6 - 10 point on their own .... in todays NFL that's a more than solid effort

ALLD
10-20-2013, 06:41 PM
In America's Game: The Super Bowl Champions, Andy Russell describes Noll's assessment of the team upon his arrival.

“Look, I’ve been watching the game films since I took the job. And I can tell you guys that the reason you’ve been losing is not because of your attitude, or your psyche, or any of that stuff. The problem is you’re just not good enough. You know, you can’t run fast enough, you can’t jump high enough, you’re not quick enough. You’re techniques are just abysmal. I’m probably going to have to get rid of most of you...and we’re going to move on.”

"And you know—five of us made it from that room to our first Super Bowl following the ’74 season."

Steeldude
10-20-2013, 06:41 PM
The defense having problems has been apparent for a few seasons now.

tube517
10-20-2013, 06:42 PM
Still not able to get turnovers consistently. The 4th quarter prevent and subsequent TD on that drive is par for the course since 2009

X-Terminator
10-20-2013, 06:47 PM
you should not lay into the defense for giving up 16 points that partly was the responsibility of the offence (points off of turnovers ) ....

if we take care of the football ourselves the Ravens only put up 6 - 10 point on their own .... in todays NFL that's a more than solid effort

The offense only had one turnover. The problem is that they continue to settle for FGs instead of TDs in the red zone. If they score another TD on the drive after recovering the onside kick, they end the game right there.

As for the defense, they are what they are, with the same problems they've had for the past 3+ seasons.

stillers4me
10-20-2013, 06:49 PM
The defense having problems has been apparent for a few seasons now.

I've said before and I'll say it again....we've never gotten past the loss of Aaron Smith.

Dwinsgames
10-20-2013, 06:52 PM
The offense only had one turnover. The problem is that they continue to settle for FGs instead of TDs in the red zone. If they score another TD on the drive after recovering the onside kick, they end the game right there.

As for the defense, they are what they are, with the same problems they've had for the past 3+ seasons.

how may points where scored off of the Miller fumble ?

couple that with points we could have / should have obtained and you are talking about an entirely different looking outcome

Shoes
10-20-2013, 06:54 PM
The offense only had one turnover. The problem is that they continue to settle for FGs instead of TDs in the red zone. If they score another TD on the drive after recovering the onside kick, they end the game right there.

As for the defense, they are what they are, with the same problems they've had for the past 3+ seasons.

Yes, even with Dumerville giving them 30 yards in the 3rd quarter. There have been red zone issues for a few years now.

X-Terminator
10-20-2013, 06:56 PM
how may points where scored off of the Miller fumble ?

couple that with points we could have / should have obtained and you are talking about an entirely different looking outcome

3. And that makes the game 16-13 if you take them away - still very much in doubt before Suisham's GW kick. The offense twice had to settle for FGs when they had the ball deep in the red zone - that's what kept the Ravens in the game until the end.

Texasteel
10-20-2013, 06:56 PM
I've said before and I'll say it again....we've never gotten past the loss of Aaron Smith.


And the choir said,,,,,,,, Amen.

HollywoodSteel
10-20-2013, 07:10 PM
I've said before and I'll say it again....we've never gotten past the loss of Aaron Smith.

I don't think I'll ever get over Macho Grande. Those wounds run... pretty deep.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wBq4ma7oByM

cold-hard-steel
10-20-2013, 08:46 PM
I saw that Troy can jump over the offensive and defensive line in a single bound . Super man for real .

GoSlash27
10-20-2013, 09:07 PM
Why are we all talking about this game like we lost?

Steeldude
10-20-2013, 09:13 PM
I've said before and I'll say it again....we've never gotten past the loss of Aaron Smith.

Yep, plus the loss of Farrior(in his prime) and Harrison. This team needs an intelligent/charismatic LB to guide them verbally and physically.

- - - Updated - - -


Why are we all talking about this game like we lost?

Because many fans aren't content with sub-par football. The Steelers did play better and a win is a win, but they have a lot of work to do.

steelreserve
10-21-2013, 12:55 AM
I've said before and I'll say it again....we've never gotten past the loss of Aaron Smith.

Meh. We were basically already without Smith for his last 3 years here; he was either playing through injuries or on IR most of the time. At least Hampton was still effective for the first couple of those. When that stopped too, our DL and our pass rush were both pure horseshit. I love Keisel, but he can't do it all by himself.

Craic
10-21-2013, 01:40 AM
Why are we all talking about this game like we lost?

Come on, you were around in 2008 when we went to the SB. Every game, people talked like we lost. It's the default position.

Hawkman
10-21-2013, 12:52 PM
Come on, you were around in 2008 when we went to the SB. Every game, people talked like we lost. It's the default position.
True DAT!!:yup:

HollywoodSteel
10-21-2013, 01:14 PM
Come on, you were around in 2008 when we went to the SB. Every game, people talked like we lost. It's the default position.

Funny how on a message board people have this nasty habit of analyzing the game they just watched. In 2008 we should have known we were a perfect team after that loss to the Eagles. How fans can take any interest in the game of football beyond cheering escapes me. :)

Texasteel
10-21-2013, 04:27 PM
Funny how on a message board people have this nasty habit of analyzing the game they just watched. In 2008 we should have known we were a perfect team after that loss to the Eagles. How fans can take any interest in the game of football beyond cheering escapes me. :)

People are just wanting to kick back and spend some time enjoying a win. Wins have been hard to come by recently. Actually the members of this board does a pretty good job of analyzing a game, win or loose. often better than some of those clowns I've been watching on TV. You know, the so called "EXPERTS".

tube517
10-21-2013, 05:25 PM
Come on, you were around in 2008 when we went to the SB. Every game, people talked like we lost. It's the default position.

If you take away Harrison's interception we lose that game. :chuckle:

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SteelerFanInStl
10-21-2013, 06:14 PM
Why are we all talking about this game like we lost?

I don't see anyone talking about it "like we lost". I see people discussing what they didn't like about the game. There are threads about the good parts and there are threads about the bad.

I didn't know that only rainbows and unicorns were allowed after a win. :lol:

- - - Updated - - -


People are just wanting to kick back and spend some time enjoying a win. Wins have been hard to come by recently. Actually the members of this board does a pretty good job of analyzing a game, win or loose. often better than some of those clowns I've been watching on TV. You know, the so called "EXPERTS".

No one's keeping them from doing that. It's quite simple to just not read a thread if you don't want to hear what's being discussed.

Personally I enjoy talking about the whole game, win or lose, good or bad.

Craic
10-21-2013, 06:22 PM
Funny how on a message board people have this nasty habit of analyzing the game they just watched. In 2008 we should have known we were a perfect team after that loss to the Eagles. How fans can take any interest in the game of football beyond cheering escapes me. :)

Analyzing? Sure. But come on, this?


The critics were right. The Defense blows it in the 4th.

I railroaded the Offense for poor situational football, but it's clear the Defense has a problem too. I can't defend this anymore.

I mean, let's rip a defense that allowed 1 TD all game. I've been critical of this defense myself, for the very reason that they couldn't stop teams in the fourth quarter. That changed last year however, and they were doing a great job. This year they lost another wave of people.

My point is, if we're truly talking "analysis" then it's real analyzing, which is speaking of the positive as well as the negative. Why is it that win or loss, all we usually get is negative? I mean, there are times reading this board that I feel like people are upset we win because it means they can't be even more critical. Seriously, God forbid if we critique things and actually have positive comments as well as negative.

Texasteel
10-21-2013, 06:30 PM
I don't see anyone talking about it "like we lost". I see people discussing what they didn't like about the game. There are threads about the good parts and there are threads about the bad.

I didn't know that only rainbows and unicorns were allowed after a win. :lol:


- - - Updated - - -



No one's keeping them from doing that. It's quite simple to just not read a thread if you don't want to hear what's being discussed.

Personally I enjoy talking about the whole game, win or lose, good or bad.

and no one is stopping anyone else from posting, or reading what they want, they are just expressing their feelings. I think there is room for all of us.

SteelerFanInStl
10-21-2013, 06:57 PM
and no one is stopping anyone else from posting, or reading what they want, they are just expressing their feelings. I think there is room for all of us.

Definitely!

Craic
10-21-2013, 07:00 PM
I don't see anyone talking about it "like we lost". I see people discussing what they didn't like about the game. There are threads about the good parts and there are threads about the bad.

I didn't know that only rainbows and unicorns were allowed after a win. :lol:

Look through the threads since yesterday and see how many people even acknowledged that we won a game. I didn't know that actually admitting we won equates to rainbow and unicorn posts.

But since I'm willing to admit that we won, here you go:



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p9nfVrusSMg

Oops, I meant



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OQSNhk5ICTI

GoSlash27
10-21-2013, 07:36 PM
I don't see anyone talking about it "like we lost". I see people discussing what they didn't like about the game. There are threads about the good parts and there are threads about the bad.

I didn't know that only rainbows and unicorns were allowed after a win. :lol:



That's certainly what it looks like from my house. "Defense blows it in the 4th"? "Defense couldn't stop them when we needed it"?
Uhh... if it's in the "W" column, then they clearly didn't "blow it" and we didn't "need" the stop.

I'm not telling you what to post or what not to post. It's all the same to me. It just seems odd that some folks around here are portraying this game as if it was a loss. "Needs improvement" is certainly valid, but "blew it"? No, not so much.

SteelerFanInStl
10-21-2013, 08:22 PM
That's certainly what it looks like from my house. "Defense blows it in the 4th"? "Defense couldn't stop them when we needed it"?
Uhh... if it's in the "W" column, then they clearly didn't "blow it" and we didn't "need" the stop.

I'm not telling you what to post or what not to post. It's all the same to me. It just seems odd that some folks around here are portraying this game as if it was a loss. "Needs improvement" is certainly valid, but "blew it"? No, not so much.

That was one person's opinion. We all have one. Doesn't mean that it's right or wrong but we all have the right to post it. If you don't agree, then say so. That's what this site is for, discussion. :drink:

- - - Updated - - -


Look through the threads since yesterday and see how many people even acknowledged that we won a game. I didn't know that actually admitting we won equates to rainbow and unicorn posts.


I was in the gameday thread and read all of the threads posted after the game. Plenty of people were acknowledging the win, giving out game balls, talking about the improved OL play and running game, etc.

steeldawg
10-21-2013, 08:26 PM
Defense needs to tighten up a little bit but its hard to blame them for giving up a fourth quarter lead when the offense had a number of opportunities to score td's and they couldn't. We have been awful in the redzone, our receivers have to do a better job in the redzone, I think our leading redzone guy might be cotchery and that's no good. I would like to see them use back shoulder throws to brown or quick slants, receivers have to take some focus off miller down there.

GoSlash27
10-21-2013, 08:28 PM
That was one person's opinion. We all have one. Doesn't mean that it's right or wrong but we all have the right to post it. If you don't agree, then say so. That's what this site is for, discussion. :drink:

I think it's a little more than just a "difference of opinion" in this case. Anyone feel free to chime in and correct me, but "blew it" is pretty darn definitive; specifically "it" (the game) has been "blown" (lost). I don't think that term is accurate unless it's applied to an actual loss.
Likewise, "needed" is pretty darn definitive also. As in we "needed" something and they failed to provide it, ergo we lost.

Reading posts #1 and #3 without context, an observer would be led to the incorrect conclusion that we lost.
Is it just me?

SteelerFanInStl
10-21-2013, 08:43 PM
I think it's a little more than just a "difference of opinion" in this case. Anyone feel free to chime in and correct me, but "blew it" is pretty darn definitive; specifically "it" (the game) has been "blown" (lost). I don't think that term is accurate unless it's applied to an actual loss.
Likewise, "needed" is pretty darn definitive also. As in we "needed" something and they failed to provide it, ergo we lost.

Reading posts #1 and #3 without context, an observer would be led to the incorrect conclusion that we lost.
Is it just me?

So, when a team is ahead by a TD in the 4th quarter, you don't think that they "need" a stop by the defense? Take a look in the game day thread and I'm sure that you'll see plenty of posts saying that we "needed" a stop at that point in the game. The "need" is to keep the lead. It doesn't mean that if you don't get what you "need", you automatically lose the game. I say it all the time in a game. We "need" a sack here or we "need" a TD here. It's rarely a do or die thing for me.

Craic
10-21-2013, 09:03 PM
So, when a team is ahead by a TD in the 4th quarter, you don't think that they "need" a stop by the defense? Take a look in the game day thread and I'm sure that you'll see plenty of posts saying that we "needed" a stop at that point in the game. The "need" is to keep the lead. It doesn't mean that if you don't get what you "need", you automatically lose the game. I say it all the time in a game. We "need" a sack here or we "need" a TD here. It's rarely a do or die thing for me.

There's a difference here. "We need a stop," and posting after that "we blew it" on that drive is much, MUCH different than a very generalized "it" that usually in such a context refers to the entire game, especially with the team going 1-4 before Sunday.

Did the defense blow the chance to end the game there? Yes. Did they blow the game? No. We won. As much as some would like to paint me as such (not you), I'm not a blind homer. We have problems, and our defense definitely has problems. I also however, tend not to get caught up in the whirlwind of "Fire _____, we suck!" or some similar type of diatribes.

This reminds me of the day my wife and I were flying to Pittsburgh to watch my first Steelers game. It was 2007, and we were going to watch the Steelers Ravens Monday night game. This is 2007, mind you, three and a half years after Ben took the reigns. We were talking to someone at the airport from Pittsburgh, and he was going on about how Ben hasn't showing him anything yet and he just wasn't sure about the guy.

At some point, criticism stops being criticism and starts being kvetching for the sake of kvetching. I understand, it's a lot easier to point out the problems than it is to point out the positives or the places where we're just average, but please, if we're going to use the word "critique" or being "critical" or "assessing" then let's at least apply the terms right. A lot of what I see isn't the above, it's a couple critiques wrapped up in a butt-ton of kvetching.

EDIT: ignore my tone in this post. Sorry about that.

SteelerFanInStl
10-21-2013, 09:20 PM
There's a difference here. "We need a stop," and posting after that "we blew it" on that drive is much, MUCH different than a very generalized "it" that usually in such a context refers to the entire game, especially with the team going 1-4 before Sunday.

My comment was only directed at the "we needed it" part that GoSlash27 was referring to since that was my post. I can't address the part about "blowing it" since that came from Edman.

Craic
10-21-2013, 09:26 PM
My comment was only directed at the "we needed it" part that GoSlash27 was referring to since that was my post. I can't address the part about "blowing it" since that came from Edman.

And I was just using that as a general way of getting my point across, that it really does feel at times like there's so much negativity around here. That's all. Of course, I'd hate to be on a Raven's board right now. :chuckle:

GoSlash27
10-22-2013, 06:12 AM
So, when a team is ahead by a TD in the 4th quarter, you don't think that they "need" a stop by the defense?
Not if they end up winning without it, no.
We would have certainly wanted a stop, but if we won without it then by definition we didn't "need" it.

HollywoodSteel
10-22-2013, 05:09 PM
Look through the threads since yesterday and see how many people even acknowledged that we won a game. I didn't know that actually admitting we won equates to rainbow and unicorn posts.

But since I'm willing to admit that we won, here you go:



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p9nfVrusSMg

Oops, I meant



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OQSNhk5ICTI

I think we should have a unicorn and rainbows ONLY thread (or threads). I'm actually not joking. There should be threads that are designated as "positivity" only. That way the people who just want to enjoy a win, or even enjoy the Steelers in general, can do so without seeing any negativity at all. No one will complain or judge other people's proper ratio of positive to negative attitude. Everyone's happy!

Now, the cynic in me kind of believes that some people who don't like other people expressing negativity will still venture over to the threads that clearly have some negativity in the title because they actually enjoy hating the negativity, or at least judging it negatively (now it's getting kind of meta) but, of course, I could be wrong. :)

Psycho Ward 86
10-22-2013, 06:58 PM
Offensive Rankings:

Points scored: 28th
Total yards: 20th
Passing yards: 12th
Rushing yards: 27th


Defensive Rankings:

Points scored: 14th
Total yards: 6th
Passing yards: 4th
Rushing yards: 19th

lol. seriously. We've been leaning on our defense for 4 decades. Nothing has changed. Yeah we need take aways, but not as badly as we need the offense to not turn the ball. Its been like this for the past 3 years

GoSlash27
10-23-2013, 04:57 AM
I think we should have a unicorn and rainbows ONLY thread (or threads). I'm actually not joking. There should be threads that are designated as "positivity" only. That way the people who just want to enjoy a win, or even enjoy the Steelers in general, can do so without seeing any negativity at all. No one will complain or judge other people's proper ratio of positive to negative attitude. Everyone's happy!

Now, the cynic in me kind of believes that some people who don't like other people expressing negativity will still venture over to the threads that clearly have some negativity in the title because they actually enjoy hating the negativity, or at least judging it negatively (now it's getting kind of meta) but, of course, I could be wrong. :)

"Separate but equal"? :D

Texasteel
10-23-2013, 12:14 PM
"Separate but equal"? :D

Red group to the left, Blue group to the right. No, I don't think so. We will all just have to except each others thoughts, thoughts that are equal and as important as our own. Their's an idea.

NJarhead
10-23-2013, 12:38 PM
Red group to the left, Blue group to the right. No, I don't think so. We will all just have to except each others thoughts, thoughts that are equal and as important as our own. Their's an idea.

Ummmm, Tex, God bless ya, but you've got it backwards. :lol:

Texasteel
10-23-2013, 01:05 PM
Ummmm, Tex, God bless ya, but you've got it backwards. :lol:

Yea, you right, but in my defense I wasn't thinking politics. Here lately I've been trying hard not to think politics.

NJarhead
10-23-2013, 01:29 PM
Yea, you right, but in my defense I wasn't thinking politics. Here lately I've been trying hard not to think politics.

Well then, in that case, congratulations. You're doing it right. haha

HollywoodSteel
10-25-2013, 04:40 PM
Red group to the left, Blue group to the right. No, I don't think so. We will all just have to except each others thoughts, thoughts that are equal and as important as our own. Their's an idea.

Of course we need to respect each others' thoughts. That would be awesome. I'm just trying to help out the people who claim that they just want to enjoy a win without having to see any negativity from others. Now, if some people who say that they don't want to read anything negative really mean that they do enjoy reading negative comments so that they can put down the negative commenters for being negative... well, that's perfectly fine too I suppose. But there have to be some people who make such claims who are actually being sincere in their claims, don't you think? If so, don't you think those people would benefit from a positivity only thread?

It's like people who block certain posters so they don't have to read their comments. Similar idea.

Craic
10-25-2013, 08:54 PM
I think we should have a unicorn and rainbows ONLY thread (or threads). I'm actually not joking. There should be threads that are designated as "positivity" only. That way the people who just want to enjoy a win, or even enjoy the Steelers in general, can do so without seeing any negativity at all. No one will complain or judge other people's proper ratio of positive to negative attitude. Everyone's happy!

Now, the cynic in me kind of believes that some people who don't like other people expressing negativity will still venture over to the threads that clearly have some negativity in the title because they actually enjoy hating the negativity, or at least judging it negatively (now it's getting kind of meta) but, of course, I could be wrong. :)

The problem with that is that I want to read constructive criticism. I want to read what people think is wrong with the team, and why they think it's wrong, because it gets me thinking. For me, the problem develop when it devolves to, "So and so Sucks." Or "We've had this problem ever since..." when the fact is, we haven't. There's a big difference between critically assessing problems, and being negative.

Texasteel
10-25-2013, 10:28 PM
Of course we need to respect each others' thoughts. That would be awesome. I'm just trying to help out the people who claim that they just want to enjoy a win without having to see any negativity from others. Now, if some people who say that they don't want to read anything negative really mean that they do enjoy reading negative comments so that they can put down the negative commenters for being negative... well, that's perfectly fine too I suppose. But there have to be some people who make such claims who are actually being sincere in their claims, don't you think? If so, don't you think those people would benefit from a positivity only thread?

It's like people who block certain posters so they don't have to read their comments. Similar idea.

Every member, in good standing, has the right to read what ever he or she wants. If its positive or negative doesn't really matter. They also have the right to bitch about what they read, as long as it is respectful. In turn the other side has the right to bitch about the bitching. What I don't believe is that either side has the right to try an take the moral high ground when they are doing exactly what they are complaining the other side is doing. Your right, each member can block another member, but just because they chose not to doesn't mean they have to like what is being said, or that they sacrifice the right to disagree with them.

HollywoodSteel
10-26-2013, 02:01 PM
Every member, in good standing, has the right to read what ever he or she wants. If its positive or negative doesn't really matter. They also have the right to bitch about what they read, as long as it is respectful. In turn the other side has the right to bitch about the bitching. What I don't believe is that either side has the right to try an take the moral high ground when they are doing exactly what they are complaining the other side is doing. Your right, each member can block another member, but just because they chose not to doesn't mean they have to like what is being said, or that they sacrifice the right to disagree with them.

Absolutely. You will never find me disagreeing with any of that. In fact, we can just cut and paste that statement when anyone has anything to say about anyone else's commenting, and then they can paste it back, and keep going back and forth without addressing the substance of anyone's position. :)

But rights aside, I think you're missing my point. I'm in no way to trying to stifle any kind of back and forth debate, or tell people what they should or shouldn't post. But there are people who claim to genuinely be bummed out when they see negative posts, especially after a win. I'm just trying to give them the option of not being bummed out by having a thread that won't bum them out. Of course there is no way to stop people from posting negative stuff in such a thread, but I think people would choose to be respectful of it, especially if it helps keep them from get accosted for their negativity in other threads.

HollywoodSteel
10-26-2013, 03:06 PM
The problem with that is that I want to read constructive criticism. I want to read what people think is wrong with the team, and why they think it's wrong, because it gets me thinking. For me, the problem develop when it devolves to, "So and so Sucks." Or "We've had this problem ever since..." when the fact is, we haven't. There's a big difference between critically assessing problems, and being negative.

I hope you didn't take this as any type of judgement on your posts. I always find your posts to add something of substance to every thread, even on the occasions where we disagree. Maybe I'm being unclear. I never said these people should go to these threads only and those people should go to those threads only... I never said "separate but equal" or anything like that. That was GoSlash's joke.

I'm only suggesting an option for those who would choose to take it, for whatever reason. Maybe they don't want to read anything negative that particular day but don't want to avoid the board altogether. So they can come to the "positivity" thread, enjoy themselves with like-minded posters, and then take part in the other threads when they feel like it later. I don't see the harm.

HollywoodSteel
10-28-2013, 04:36 PM
I can't put up a "positivity only" thread now with a straight face.

Count Steeler
10-28-2013, 04:38 PM
I can't put up a "positivity only" thread now with a straight face.

It would be pretty bare too.