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NCSteeler
10-10-2013, 07:49 PM
We laugh at teams for this kind of stupid shit. PFT. Reporting Tomlin banning vets from the game tables . What a freaking mess, I thought it was headed bad when I saw the vets banning new guys, now I know it's total collapse.

This team is a train wreck. Coach needs to start coaching, NOW! He's had it easy till now.

stillers4me
10-10-2013, 07:52 PM
Who's Tomlinson?

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salamander
10-10-2013, 07:57 PM
They should be focusing on winning football games and not games in the locker room, since you know, that's what they're paid to do.

NCSteeler
10-10-2013, 08:10 PM
Who's Tomlinson?

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Your phone never auto corrects?

jb500ex
10-10-2013, 09:11 PM
And now Haley has even more stuff going on being sued by his dog sitter. It's beyond laughable at this point

ALLD
10-11-2013, 05:38 PM
Total collapse = 0 - 5.

NCSteeler
10-11-2013, 06:21 PM
This is totally the kind of stuff we blow up on other teams and spend page after page of posts making fun of them, how the tide has turned.

HollywoodSteel
10-11-2013, 06:43 PM
It does seem kind of weird. You can't just a punish a team into being better. I'm no expert or anything but at some point actual coaching might be in order - like offensive and defensive game-planning, correcting mistakes on the practice field... I'm just playing, less ping pong is absolutely the key to victory. If only he'd figured that out sooner we'd be undefeated.

steeldawg
10-11-2013, 06:51 PM
I don't think tomlin is going far enough, I would send them to bed without dinner too and really send a message!

Craic
10-11-2013, 07:00 PM
Fascinating.

Everyone complains about this team not being focused. So they ban LOCKER ROOM DISTRACTIONS, and everyone complains about it.

HollywoodSteel
10-11-2013, 07:31 PM
Fascinating.

Everyone complains about this team not being focused. So they ban LOCKER ROOM DISTRACTIONS, and everyone complains about it.

Is that your take on the response here? Maybe some people don't believe that shuffleboard is the top reason this team has been underprepared. Maybe Tomlin should just keep eliminating stuff in the players' lives until they start winning. That has to be the problem. Eventually he'll find the distraction that's been the thorn in their paw through process of elimination. I'll bet that's why Mike Adams has been underperforming... but was it the darts or the ping pong? Ah, just get rid of all of it and his foot work should improve overnight. If only Tomlin had thought of this earlier he wouldn't have had to trade away a draft pick to replace him.

HollywoodSteel
10-11-2013, 07:50 PM
Sorry, Craic. Rather than just respond to you in a somewhat snotty manner I took a second to try and analyze why this response from Tomlin kind of rubs me the wrong way and I think it's similar to why it kind of irked me when Ben said the same thing about the young players when he himself had plenty of areas where he could improve.

I guess what I want to hear from Tomlin is that he's including himself in all of this. I want to hear something like this from him: "I have no business playing ping-pong or shuffleboard or anything else when I could be analyzing game film or otherwise be working on a way to out-coach my opponents. Any time spent on a leisure activity could probably be spent helping my players or fellow coaches improve. There is plenty of blame to go around for our winless start, but until I'm absolutely certain that I'm doing all I can to do my job better, I sure as hell am not going to point the finger at others for what they do with their free time."

HollywoodSteel
10-11-2013, 10:22 PM
Ping Pong's for closers only!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qIreofCO6zg

Craic
10-12-2013, 01:54 AM
Is that your take on the response here? Maybe some people don't believe that shuffleboard is the top reason this team has been underprepared. Maybe Tomlin should just keep eliminating stuff in the players' lives until they start winning. That has to be the problem. Eventually he'll find the distraction that's been the thorn in their paw through process of elimination. I'll bet that's why Mike Adams has been underperforming... but was it the darts or the ping pong? Ah, just get rid of all of it and his foot work should improve overnight. If only Tomlin had thought of this earlier he wouldn't have had to trade away a draft pick to replace him.


Sorry, Craic. Rather than just respond to you in a somewhat snotty manner I took a second to try and analyze why this response from Tomlin kind of rubs me the wrong way and I think it's similar to why it kind of irked me when Ben said the same thing about the young players when he himself had plenty of areas where he could improve.

I guess what I want to hear from Tomlin is that he's including himself in all of this. I want to hear something like this from him: "I have no business playing ping-pong or shuffleboard or anything else when I could be analyzing game film or otherwise be working on a way to out-coach my opponents. Any time spent on a leisure activity could probably be spent helping my players or fellow coaches improve. There is plenty of blame to go around for our winless start, but until I'm absolutely certain that I'm doing all I can to do my job better, I sure as hell am not going to point the finger at others for what they do with their free time."

I think where we disagree is in seeing what this move means. To you and others, from what I've read (and tell me if I'm wrong, I don't wanna put words in your mouth) this move is something petty, almost a punishment. For me, I see this move as something more. The vets told the rookies that they can't play anymore, that they have to focus on the game, more than focusing on playing games in the locker room. I see this as Tomlin coming in and saying, "Alright vets, the same goes for you. Everyone needs to focus more."

When it comes to who is at fault for what, I really don't care about hearing it from the coaches or players. I just want to see something done on the field. I mean, maybe Tomlin was ping-pong champion? Maybe he shoots a mean game of pool? I'd imagine that you're not going to be seeing the coaches playing either. (And thanks for the response explaining).

HollywoodSteel
10-12-2013, 10:19 AM
I think where we disagree is in seeing what this move means. To you and others, from what I've read (and tell me if I'm wrong, I don't wanna put words in your mouth) this move is something petty, almost a punishment. For me, I see this move as something more. The vets told the rookies that they can't play anymore, that they have to focus on the game, more than focusing on playing games in the locker room. I see this as Tomlin coming in and saying, "Alright vets, the same goes for you. Everyone needs to focus more."

When it comes to who is at fault for what, I really don't care about hearing it from the coaches or players. I just want to see something done on the field. I mean, maybe Tomlin was ping-pong champion? Maybe he shoots a mean game of pool? I'd imagine that you're not going to be seeing the coaches playing either. (And thanks for the response explaining).

I can only speak for myself, but I really don't see Tomlin doing this to be petty or vindictive. I honestly think he's doing what he thinks is best for the team. And while it does seem a little silly at first blush (I'd rather have a player playing games at the facility with his team mates than going to a bar and doing it), I get it only in the sense that it is a reaction to the vets banning the youngsters in the first place (the reason you put forth is a valid one). To me it's more about perception and the subtle way that it separates the wrong-doing from himself and puts it on the players, like "they need to shape up" which is true enough, but because I believe that Tomlin is at least partially responsible for this winless start (against, let's face it, at least a couple of non-world-beaters) I would like him to mention his own need for improvement with every statement where he points fingers at players. In all practicality, of course he isn't in there playing ping pong by himself or with other coaches (he took the damn paddles away) but I want to hear him say that he doesn't deserve the privilege any more than his players do.

Perhaps that's nitpicking and asking too much. I can totally accept that. It's possible that I'm way off base here. But on the other hand, screw him. He's a big boy who talks a big game. He deserves all the heat he's getting from us lowly buyers of his product (and it's not like he cares what I think anyway). Let him stack some wins and I'll ease up on the throttle. I'm not one of those guys who needs to be right. I'm happy to do a 180 and admit that I had him all wrong. In fact I'm begging to able to do that. The real issue for me is that these kinds of actions on his part only serve to feed my paranoia that this is the only type of action he's capable of taking. What I'd like him to be doing is analyzing every single blitz Rex Ryan has every thrown at anyone and be able to be so deep in Ryan's head, he knows what Ryan's going to do before Ryan knows it himself, and then relaying all those subtle nuances to Ben and his blockers. I want him to be studying all in game clock management situations so that he never comes close to making another mistake again. I want him to say that he'll be hyper aware from now on when Ben is trying to rush to the line to get a play off before the opposing coach can challenge, and he'll have his hands around Haley's throat if he ever tries to make a substitution in that situation again. I want him to say that he'll perfect all these things before he, himself, ever picks up a dart, a ping pong paddle, or a playing card again in his life. If it were Belichick, I wouldn't be giving this kind of thing a second thought because I'd be sure he was doing all the expert-coaching-type-stuff as well. But with Tomlin... maybe he is doing all of this, but I've just never seen it or heard of anyone else seeing it. As always on the subject of Tomlin, here's hoping you're right and I'm wrong. :drink:

Godfather
10-12-2013, 12:15 PM
To me it's more about perception and the subtle way that it separates the wrong-doing from himself and puts it on the players, like "they need to shape up" which is true enough, but because I believe that Tomlin is at least partially responsible for this winless start (against, let's face it, at least a couple of non-world-beaters) I would like him to mention his own need for improvement with every statement where he points fingers at players.

Fair point. Of course, the big problem is poor execution on the field, and that's on the players. Tomlin can't be more careful with the ball or block or run a proper route or tackle. His job is to get the players to do all of those things, and cracking down on leisure activities is one of the only means of doing that.

I would say the offensive playcalling needs improvement as well, but the biggest issue is that the guys on the field aren't playing up to their talent level.

HollywoodSteel
10-12-2013, 05:56 PM
Fair point. Of course, the big problem is poor execution on the field, and that's on the players. Tomlin can't be more careful with the ball or block or run a proper route or tackle. His job is to get the players to do all of those things, and cracking down on leisure activities is one of the only means of doing that.

I would say the offensive playcalling needs improvement as well, but the biggest issue is that the guys on the field aren't playing up to their talent level.

In a general sense I would think that correcting mistakes in practice would lead to better execution on game day far more than cracking down on leisure activities. For example, while he can't personally be more careful with the ball it seems like there could be an aspect to coaching that helps his players be more careful with the ball. I'm pretty sure the Giants' coaching staff helped Tiki Barber be more careful with the ball and, if I recall correctly, that had more to do with practicing technique than putting an end to his shuffleboard playing. But maybe that's an unfair example.

X-Terminator
10-13-2013, 01:01 AM
I can only speak for myself, but I really don't see Tomlin doing this to be petty or vindictive. I honestly think he's doing what he thinks is best for the team. And while it does seem a little silly at first blush (I'd rather have a player playing games at the facility with his team mates than going to a bar and doing it), I get it only in the sense that it is a reaction to the vets banning the youngsters in the first place (the reason you put forth is a valid one). To me it's more about perception and the subtle way that it separates the wrong-doing from himself and puts it on the players, like "they need to shape up" which is true enough, but because I believe that Tomlin is at least partially responsible for this winless start (against, let's face it, at least a couple of non-world-beaters) I would like him to mention his own need for improvement with every statement where he points fingers at players. In all practicality, of course he isn't in there playing ping pong by himself or with other coaches (he took the damn paddles away) but I want to hear him say that he doesn't deserve the privilege any more than his players do.

Perhaps that's nitpicking and asking too much. I can totally accept that. It's possible that I'm way off base here. But on the other hand, screw him. He's a big boy who talks a big game. He deserves all the heat he's getting from us lowly buyers of his product (and it's not like he cares what I think anyway). Let him stack some wins and I'll ease up on the throttle. I'm not one of those guys who needs to be right. I'm happy to do a 180 and admit that I had him all wrong. In fact I'm begging to able to do that. The real issue for me is that these kinds of actions on his part only serve to feed my paranoia that this is the only type of action he's capable of taking. What I'd like him to be doing is analyzing every single blitz Rex Ryan has every thrown at anyone and be able to be so deep in Ryan's head, he knows what Ryan's going to do before Ryan knows it himself, and then relaying all those subtle nuances to Ben and his blockers. I want him to be studying all in game clock management situations so that he never comes close to making another mistake again. I want him to say that he'll be hyper aware from now on when Ben is trying to rush to the line to get a play off before the opposing coach can challenge, and he'll have his hands around Haley's throat if he ever tries to make a substitution in that situation again. I want him to say that he'll perfect all these things before he, himself, ever picks up a dart, a ping pong paddle, or a playing card again in his life. If it were Belichick, I wouldn't be giving this kind of thing a second thought because I'd be sure he was doing all the expert-coaching-type-stuff as well. But with Tomlin... maybe he is doing all of this, but I've just never seen it or heard of anyone else seeing it. As always on the subject of Tomlin, here's hoping you're right and I'm wrong. :drink:

So what you want is perfection. Sorry to disappoint you, but there's no such thing as the perfect coach. Even Lord Belichick ain't perfect (why we have so many people all of a sudden sucking his evil shlong on this board is beyond my comprehension, but I digress). You are doing an awful lot of assuming, and have been for the better part of 3 seasons now. How do you know Tomlin isn't doing all that you are demanding? Have you been in the locker room? The film room? The game plan meetings? What evidence do you have, other than your opinion, that he isn't doing any of that?

stillers4me
10-13-2013, 07:33 AM
How do you know Tomlin isn't doing all that you are demanding? Have you been in the locker room? The film room? The game plan meetings? What evidence do you have, other than your opinion, that he isn't doing any of that?

Exactly.

HollywoodSteel
10-13-2013, 11:47 AM
So what you want is perfection. Sorry to disappoint you, but there's no such thing as the perfect coach. Even Lord Belichick ain't perfect (why we have so many people all of a sudden sucking his evil shlong on this board is beyond my comprehension, but I digress). You are doing an awful lot of assuming, and have been for the better part of 3 seasons now. How do you know Tomlin isn't doing all that you are demanding? Have you been in the locker room? The film room? The game plan meetings? What evidence do you have, other than your opinion, that he isn't doing any of that?

You're right that a lot of it is speculation. But it's not based entirely on nothing. When I hear players, former players, coaches etc, talk about great coaches I hear about how they break down film, how they practice, how they make every player better. I just haven't heard any of that about Tomlin. I've heard stuff like, "he's one of us," which I don't necessarily think is bad, but I assume I'd hear more if there were more. And when I see us consistently losing to worse teams I don't think it's crazy to assume maybe it has something to do with coaching.

But here's the thing, I don't want him fired or anything based on my speculation. This is a board where we speculate about crap like this with the limited information we have. I'm open to absorbing any info or insight anyone has. I think that's interesting. When you don't have much hope of winning a Super Bowl at least we can have fun analyzing the problems.

I have no venom in my posts. They're just observations, and when someone makes a good point refuting anything, I never shy away from acknowledging it and sometimes changing my point of view accordingly. I'm really rooting for Tomlin to be the complete package. I don't expect perfection, I just want to be able to assume that when we do badly we have the guy who can right the ship.

As far as Belichick goes, I don't hate him because he's a bad coach. I hate him because he's the enemy. He wears the wrong hoodie, that's all. It doesn't mean I have to put blinders on when it comes to his skills as a head coach. He wins every year, with whatever roster he has. So if the Patriots suddenly lost four in row it wouldn't be crazy to assume that it wasn't because they have a bad head coach.

Look, I admire your optimism, and somewhere deep down I have this absurd notion of us winning a bunch of games and making the playoffs. Think of how much fun we'll both have when you can shove all of my pessimism back in my face. :drink:

X-Terminator
10-13-2013, 12:45 PM
You're right that a lot of it is speculation. But it's not based entirely on nothing. When I hear players, former players, coaches etc, talk about great coaches I hear about how they break down film, how they practice, how they make every player better. I just haven't heard any of that about Tomlin. I've heard stuff like, "he's one of us," which I don't necessarily think is bad, but I assume I'd hear more if there were more. And when I see us consistently losing to worse teams I don't think it's crazy to assume maybe it has something to do with coaching.

But here's the thing, I don't want him fired or anything based on my speculation. This is a board where we speculate about crap like this with the limited information we have. I'm open to absorbing any info or insight anyone has. I think that's interesting. When you don't have much hope of winning a Super Bowl at least we can have fun analyzing the problems.

I have no venom in my posts. They're just observations, and when someone makes a good point refuting anything, I never shy away from acknowledging it and sometimes changing my point of view accordingly. I'm really rooting for Tomlin to be the complete package. I don't expect perfection, I just want to be able to assume that when we do badly we have the guy who can right the ship.

As far as Belichick goes, I don't hate him because he's a bad coach. I hate him because he's the enemy. He wears the wrong hoodie, that's all. It doesn't mean I have to put blinders on when it comes to his skills as a head coach. He wins every year, with whatever roster he has. So if the Patriots suddenly lost four in row it wouldn't be crazy to assume that it wasn't because they have a bad head coach.

Look, I admire your optimism, and somewhere deep down I have this absurd notion of us winning a bunch of games and making the playoffs. Think of how much fun we'll both have when you can shove all of my pessimism back in my face. :drink:

It's not so much optimism than the team has many more problems than the head coach. A glaring lack of talent and misuse of the talent they do have are much bigger problems. I'm not expecting this team to do much of anything this season, but I'm also not ready to lay every problem with the team at the feet of Mike Tomlin. Dick LeBeau, Kevin Colbert, Todd Haley, Jack Bicknell, Jr. and even Art Rooney II also deserve PLENTY of blame for what has happened to this team. I'm also of the notion that it is simply our turn to have some down years after so many years of success. The Steelers are not immune to it.

tube517
10-13-2013, 04:49 PM
So, is the players' game room still closed? :chuckle:

Mistah Q
10-13-2013, 04:50 PM
So, is the players' game room still closed? :chuckle:
I hope so. It wasn't a pretty game. We just played the Jets.

HollywoodSteel
10-13-2013, 05:04 PM
It's not so much optimism than the team has many more problems than the head coach. A glaring lack of talent and misuse of the talent they do have are much bigger problems. I'm not expecting this team to do much of anything this season, but I'm also not ready to lay every problem with the team at the feet of Mike Tomlin. Dick LeBeau, Kevin Colbert, Todd Haley, Jack Bicknell, Jr. and even Art Rooney II also deserve PLENTY of blame for what has happened to this team. I'm also of the notion that it is simply our turn to have some down years after so many years of success. The Steelers are not immune to it.

I don't disagree with anything you said. Any critique I have of Tomlin, speculative or not, is not mutually exclusive with critiquing anyone else.

That said, I'm just happy we got a victory. I don't want to throw in the towel. I'm hoping we can stack some wins here.

NCSteeler
10-13-2013, 06:28 PM
It's not so much optimism than the team has many more problems than the head coach. A glaring lack of talent and misuse of the talent they do have are much bigger problems. I'm not expecting this team to do much of anything this season, but I'm also not ready to lay every problem with the team at the feet of Mike Tomlin. Dick LeBeau, Kevin Colbert, Todd Haley, Jack Bicknell, Jr. and even Art Rooney II also deserve PLENTY of blame for what has happened to this team. I'm also of the notion that it is simply our turn to have some down years after so many years of success. The Steelers are not immune to it.

Glaring lack of talent and misuse of talent, a coaching failure. I am jot in the locker room and can only grade gamely sideline coaching, which is where Tomlin seems to be at his worst. Smiling when someone screws up, doesn't ring the bell for me. Patting everyone on the ass when they have a turn over or three and out, just doesn't do it for me either. But I also do not want him gone, I want him to get it together because I knob he has done it in the past and can get the job done going forward. Every few years you end up with a complete different make of of a locker room and the coach needs to learn a few new things to manage the personalitys .

BigNastyDefense
10-13-2013, 08:42 PM
Steelers win after this happens. Defense gets their first turnovers of the season.

Maybe they needed to focus.

Just saying.