Even at 0-4 it's still there for the taking if they can figure out the fixes

[zulater]

The sad thing about this seasons start is that the division is still there for the taking if we can get our act together. We have 5 division games left, the likely hardest division game we had has likely already been played. ( @ Cincy) It's very conceivable that if the Steelers could get the ship righted they could sweep those 5 remaining division games. Go 4-3 against the rest of your schedule and your 9-7 and in the playoffs.

Now the reality check comes and the question is can the coaching staff get the most out of the roster and actually put together such a run? Offensively they're actually showing signs of coming around, if they can only stabilize the line a bit. If they can find a starter at left tackle that can play at the same level that Max Starks did in the previous two seasons they probably would be the best offense in the division for the remainder of the season. As much hate as Ben is getting his play is steadily improving. Stabilize the left tackle position, and if Leveon proves to be a legitimate rb we should move the ball up and down the field as well as anyone. But of course the question is can they start cashing in their red zone opportunities better? In order to salvage this season the offense is going to have to be the dominant unit. They need to start getting their point total into the 30's and just as important they have to score early and often. The best help they can give the defense is to make our opponents play from behind.

Now as far as the defense goes, it's time! Time for what you ask? Time for the 4-3. Yes I know people have been saying it for years, and they've always been wrong. But I've never said it before, and more important, given the available talent it's really the only possible answer. We only have one inside ( middle in a 4-3) linebacker on the roster. Cam Heyward's play is telling you he needs to be on the field more! Steve McLendon has a great motor, but doesn't have the bulk to play 3-4 nose tackle, he's also begging to play in a traditional 4-3! We've got a bye week, this change has to be made! The available talent is more suited to the 4-3! It's that simple. If LeBeau can't or wont make the necessary changes Tomlin needs to assume those duties. This defense will remain awful if they insist on playing the 3-4 all year. They might start out awful switching initially, but they will get better as the season progresses if they make the change. The talent they have is begging for this change!

Other teams have made comparable changes in season when circumstances dictated it. The Patriots make these sort of adjustments on a game by game basis relevant to opponents for God's sake! So it can be done. It needs to be done. And if it's done, and the coaching staff embraces the challenge this team could very well find themselves in the playoff hunt by the end of the season.

[86WARD]

Only 2.5 out of first...

[NJarhead]

Not sure why anyone just assumes we're out of it. Though, we don't have much wiggle room or time left for figuring it out. Now that we know our offense can score, we need our D to get it back together and solve the rest as we move forward.

[Mojouw]

Sorry, ZU, I am willing to buy your argument across the down four, but we do not have the LB's to play any version of a 4-3. Woodley in space consistently? Supposedly, Jones and Woodley's best skills are rushing the passer and playing behind the line of scrimmage. In a 4-3 they would be taken out of that role. Could they make the switch? Possible, but then your assets on defense are wildly miss-allocated. All that money and draft picks tied up in OLB's and not rush DE's would make an already anemic pass-rush that much less threatening.

[NJarhead]

Sorry, ZU, I am willing to buy your argument across the down four, but we do not have the LB's to play any version of a 4-3. Woodley in space consistently? Supposedly, Jones and Woodley's best skills are rushing the passer and playing behind the line of scrimmage. In a 4-3 they would be taken out of that role. Could they make the switch? Possible, but then your assets on defense are wildly miss-allocated. All that money and draft picks tied up in OLB's and not rush DE's would make an already anemic pass-rush that much less threatening.

If we went to a 4-3 with these personnel Wood would (haha) play DE:

LDE: Woodley
DT: McLendon
DT: Heyward (or Hood)
RDE: Keisel

LOLB: Timmons
MLB: ?
ROLB: Jones

[Mojouw]

Fair enough. I forgot that Woodley would simply revert back to his college position. Still don't have a middle LB. Or if you send Timmons to the middle, who plays the other outside?

Plus if we switched from the 3-4 how would this team run the same A-gap cross blitz 27 times a game?

[steeldawg]

I'm guessing we are probably going to lose against New England and probably against Green Bay, that's going to put us at 6 losses so I think getting to 9-7 will be tough. We still need to worry about getting 1 win before we start worrying about making the playoffs.

[NJarhead]

Fair enough. I forgot that Woodley would simply revert back to his college position. Still don't have a middle LB. Or if you send Timmons to the middle, who plays the other outside?

Plus if we switched from the 3-4 how would this team run the same A-gap cross blitz 27 times a game?

For the record, I'm only engaging in this discussion for shits and giggles. lol

I think Timmons (in a 4-3) is better served on the outside.

For the middle you'd have to choose from:

Foote (next year unless he retires)
Sean Spence (if he's an option at all)
Kion Wilson (I guess)
Vince Williams (who, from a physical & potential standpoint, I think is the best option).

[Dwinsgames]

Even at 0-4 it's still there for the taking if they can figure out the fixes (http://www.steelersuniverse.com/forums/showthread.php/18448-Even-at-0-4-it-s-still-there-for-the-taking-if-they-can-figure-out-the-fixes)


Yep and Phoenix Arizona could have a white Christmas too ... but I am not laying bank on it

Detroit could come out of Bankruptcy and solve their gang problems all within the next couple weeks too but again I am not laying bank on it ....

Santa Clause could be proven as a true entity , again I am not laying bank on it

Santa could really be part of a secret society of legendary figures with the Easter Bunny , Tooth Fairy , Father time and mother nature too ..... guess what I am not laying bank on it




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U7fjDS0jKiE

[Psycho Ward 86]

If we went to a 4-3 with these personnel Wood would (haha) play DE:

LDE: Woodley
DT: McLendon
DT: Heyward (or Hood)
RDE: Keisel

LOLB: Timmons
MLB: ?
ROLB: Jones

Timmons MLB, Jarvis and Worilds on the outsides. i think its a bit arrogant to think changing to a 4-3 would fix our problems defensively though. sometimes you just have to say there are holes in this defense, and they arent that good. shoudlve kept keenan lewis smh

[NJarhead]

Timmons MLB, Jarvis and Worilds on the outsides. i think its a bit arrogant to think changing to a 4-3 would fix our problems defensively though. sometimes you just have to say there are holes in this defense, and they arent that good. shoudlve kept keenan lewis smh

It's not my idea. READ.

Also, I disagree that Timmons plays MLB in a 4-3. It's a waste.

[Steelman]

Now as far as the defense goes, it's time! Time for what you ask? Time for the 4-3. Yes I know people have been saying it for years, and they've always been wrong. But I've never said it before, and more important, given the available talent it's really the only possible answer. We only have one inside ( middle in a 4-3) linebacker on the roster. Cam Heyward's play is telling you he needs to be on the field more! Steve McLendon has a great motor, but doesn't have the bulk to play 3-4 nose tackle, he's also begging to play in a traditional 4-3! We've got a bye week, this change has to be made! The available talent is more suited to the 4-3! It's that simple. If LeBeau can't or wont make the necessary changes Tomlin needs to assume those duties. This defense will remain awful if they insist on playing the 3-4 all year. They might start out awful switching initially, but they will get better as the season progresses if they make the change. The talent they have is begging for this change!

Other teams have made comparable changes in season when circumstances dictated it. The Patriots make these sort of adjustments on a game by game basis relevant to opponents for God's sake! So it can be done. It needs to be done. And if it's done, and the coaching staff embraces the challenge this team could very well find themselves in the playoff hunt by the end of the season.

Seattle has been playing a hybrid 34/43 for awhile now, and seem to make scheme adjustments based on which opponent they're facing. I've been rather fascinated by their D for the last few years as our defense has slowed down, and become less effective while losing that 'mystique' that I think helped us more than the talent on the field.

I think we're definitely in a twilight zone as far as our defensive personnel goes, but it seems like we could be very successful in a version of that hybrid scheme to keep opposing offenses on their toes.

The last time Dick LeBeau completely changed the game plan was against New England awhile back, anyone remember that game? It was all man-v-man-bump-and-run on multiple look fronts and plenty of blitzing to keep Brady suppressed. We dominated that game and I hadn't seen the D play with that much swagger before, or definitely much since then.

Reputation won't get us real far anymore.


If we went to a 4-3 with these personnel Wood would (haha) play DE:

LDE: Woodley
DT: McLendon
DT: Heyward (or Hood)
RDE: Keisel

LOLB: Timmons
MLB: ?
ROLB: Jones


Fair enough. I forgot that Woodley would simply revert back to his college position. Still don't have a middle LB. Or if you send Timmons to the middle, who plays the other outside?

Plus if we switched from the 3-4 how would this team run the same A-gap cross blitz 27 times a game?


I'm assuming Worilds is not suited to play the Mike, but could he be effective as the LOLB (Sam?), leaving Timmons to continue making the calls inside? I'm not well-versed on 4-3 personnel requirements, but don't you need an athletic guy like Timmons to play the middle?

[NJarhead]

Seattle has been playing a hybrid 34/43 for awhile now, and seem to make scheme adjustments based on which opponent they're facing. I've been rather fascinated by their D for the last few years as our defense has slowed down, and become less effective while losing that 'mystique' that I think helped us more than the talent on the field.

I think we're definitely in a twilight zone as far as our defensive personnel goes, but it seems like we could be very successful in a version of that hybrid scheme to keep opposing offenses on their toes.

The last time Dick LeBeau completely changed the game plan was against New England awhile back, anyone remember that game? It was all man-v-man-bump-and-run on multiple look fronts and plenty of blitzing to keep Brady suppressed. We dominated that game and I hadn't seen the D play with that much swagger before, or definitely much since then.

Reputation won't get us real far anymore.






I'm assuming Worilds is not suited to play the Mike, but could he be effective as the LOLB (Sam?), leaving Timmons to continue making the calls inside? I'm not well-versed on 4-3 personnel requirements, but don't you need an athletic guy like Timmons to play the middle?

The MLB's, I would say, are largely the same. They call the plays, need to be athletic and tackle. The reason I'd put Timmons outside is because he's better served in coverage than anyone else (and he's done it). We can plug a good tackler in the MLB but we couldn't throw anyone outside. Just my feelings on it.

[steelreserve]

Our personnel have been far more suited to the 4-3 than the 3-4 for at least a couple of years. Our DEs except for Kiesel are not very effective in the 3-4, and any of them could play DT in the 4-3. We don't have an effective nose tackle. Woodley would probably make a better hybrid DE than an OLB. Leave Timmons in the middle, throw Jones and Worilds outside and see if it works. Or, put Jones and Timmons outside, bring Troy up to MLB and add another DB.

Do I think that's going to fix all our problems? No. But at this point, what's the harm in trying? It might turn out better in the long run. A huge part of our problem IMO is that we've been trying to force it with our draft picks and taking guys WAY over their value because 3-4 linemen are rarer. I mean, I like Heyward, but him and Wood as first-round picks? Project nose tackles like Dontari Poe going in the top 10? No way. We're forcing ourselves to take second- and third-round talent with first-round picks by being married to a scheme, and we're also forcing ourselves to take guys and convert them into something else. People always talk about taking the "best player available," but we're not even close to it. That's why the entire front of the defense is messed up. So yes, I see a lot of value long-term in switching to a 4-3, or better yet being flexible between the two styles like the 49ers, but if anyone thinks it's going to fix all our problems right away, they'll be sorely disappointed.



Timmons MLB, Jarvis and Worilds on the outsides. i think its a bit arrogant to think changing to a 4-3 would fix our problems defensively though. sometimes you just have to say there are holes in this defense, and they arent that good. shoudlve kept keenan lewis smh

Why does Lewis keep coming up? It would've been great to keep him, but there was no way we could have. Besides our constant cap issues, he basically came out and said he wanted to go back to his hometown and as long as N.O. made a reasonable offer, no amount of money would have stopped him. I guess you could argue we could "break the bank" for him and offer a $9M or $10M a year deal, but our bank is already broken.

[Psycho Ward 86]

Why does Lewis keep coming up? It would've been great to keep him, but there was no way we could have. Besides our constant cap issues, he basically came out and said he wanted to go back to his hometown and as long as N.O. made a reasonable offer, no amount of money would have stopped him. I guess you could argue we could "break the bank" for him and offer a $9M or $10M a year deal, but our bank is already broken.

Because his addition has been part of the reason why the saints not only have one of the best pass defenses, but one of the best overall defenses in the league. Roman harper, jenkins, and greer certainly arent the big difference, seeing as how the saints gave up the most total yards per game IN NFL HISTORY. They were constants, keenan and rob ryan were the new additions.

we totally had a shot at lewis. we couldve cut ike taylor and signed keenan lewis who wouldve been cheaper, or approximately the same price. A younger, cheaper, and budding option at cornerback vs. the complete opposite. They have pretty much the same skillset anyways: big, physical corners skilled in press and zone coverage, great tacklers, with a weak penchant for getting turnovers but have outstanding cover skills anyways.

Where's the logic in keeping ike taylor? Because he has been doing his job for a long time? He sure has, so long that he's 33 years old and could be finished any second. i swear to god if i hear the words "to keep our superbowl window open" one more time...

[Dwinsgames]

Where's the logic in keeping ike taylor? Because he has been doing his job for a long time? He sure has, so long that he's 33 years old and could be finished any second. i swear to god if i hear the words "to keep our superbowl window open" one more time...


Ike and old man Rooney are buddies , no better job security than that in this league

Old man Rooney has Ike on speed dial on his cell phone , half dozen numbers on Speed dial and Ike is one of them ? says a lot

[BnG_Hevn]

I tell ya, ONLY on a Steelers forum can a team be 0-4 and this statement be made: We still need to worry about getting 1 win before we start worrying about making the playoffs.

This team is NEVER down. lol

I hope I'm wrong about the "core issues" I've expressed and they can turn it around.

[NJarhead]

Where's the logic in keeping ike taylor? Because he has been doing his job for a long time? He sure has, so long that he's 33 years old and could be finished any second. i swear to god if i hear the words "to keep our superbowl window open" one more time...


Ike and old man Rooney are buddies , no better job security than that in this league

Old man Rooney has Ike on speed dial on his cell phone , half dozen numbers on Speed dial and Ike is one of them ? says a lot

Because if I recall correctly, it would have cost us as much to cut him as to keep him. He's doing his job and doing it well. Keenan seems to have come around in NOLA, but he had a really bad pre-season. Probably can chalk that up to a new system. Anyway, he had ONE GOOD YEAR here. Ike's had many. I think we keep him until the wheels fall off. He'll be gone soon enough, and you're going to wish he was back at some point.

[Dwinsgames]

True NJ ...

If Ike had great hands instead of stone hands Revis wouldn't have an island .... Ike covers as well as ANYONE in this league he just cant make the opponent pay when they make a mistake

[NJarhead]

True NJ ...

If Ike had great hands instead of stone hands Revis wouldn't have an island .... Ike covers as well as ANYONE in this league he just cant make the opponent pay when they make a mistake

No question. He'd be a HIGHLY sought after CB and probably supplant our beloved Rod Woodson in our hearts and minds. Makes me sick that his ability to take your best WR completely out of the game isn't enough.

[steeldawg]

I can see both sides of the Lewis argument. If Lewis and Ike are the same caliber we could of instantly got younger with no drop in talent. The best case scenario would have been Lewis and Ike on the corners and Allen as the nickle. Ike is good so I guess if you don't want to shell out big money for Lewis you keep Ike and try to rebuild through the draft.

[NJarhead]

I can see both sides of the Lewis argument. If Lewis and Ike are the same caliber we could of instantly got younger with no drop in talent. The best case scenario would have been Lewis and Ike on the corners and Allen as the nickle. Ike is good so I guess if you don't want to shell out big money for Lewis you keep Ike and try to rebuild through the draft.

That was my feeling last year, but we were told Allen was better. Obviously that remains to be seen and he's off to a bad start.

[Psycho Ward 86]

if you don't want to shell out big money for Lewis you keep Ike and try to rebuild through the draft.

lewis is getting paid less than ike...and boy was it a cheap cornerback market this year even with some decent talent out there

i love ike as much as the next guy, but as a fan of a great franchise i actually look at the long term solution and not the short term like most scrub teams do.

question for all of you in such high support of ike. How much longer exactly do you expect ike to be playing at a high level? and how much longer do you expect keenan to be playing at a high level?

also in regards to cortez. i love his potential as well, but its hypocritical to say that keenan had one good year here so he isnt worth it while cortez only had 3 good games as an actual starter and he's anointed all offseason as a huge upgrade. Lol. seems to me steeler fans are usually reluctant to spin things in anyway unless it seems optimistic/beneficial for the team itself.

[ALLD]

There is a better chance of a Sasquatch starting at LT on the team with the Abominable Snowman as FB than going to the playoffs this season.

[NJarhead]

lewis is getting paid less than ike...and boy was it a cheap cornerback market this year even with some decent talent out there

i love ike as much as the next guy, but as a fan of a great franchise i actually look at the long term solution and not the short term like most scrub teams do.

question for all of you in such high support of ike. How much longer exactly do you expect ike to be playing at a high level? and how much longer do you expect keenan to be playing at a high level?

also in regards to cortez. i love his potential as well, but its hypocritical to say that keenan had one good year here so he isnt worth it while cortez only had 3 good games as an actual starter and he's anointed all offseason as a huge upgrade. Lol. seems to me steeler fans are usually reluctant to spin things in anyway unless it seems optimistic/beneficial for the team itself.

Until he retires or his contract is up (after next year). It's not economical to release him before then. Here's an interesting read you should check out:

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1556285-whatever-the-steelers-do-at-cornerback-cutting-ike-taylor-is-not-an-option

For the record, I wanted to keep Lewis too, but we were told that C. Allen was going to be better.

[Dwinsgames]

lewis is getting paid less than ike...and boy was it a cheap cornerback market this year even with some decent talent out there

i love ike as much as the next guy, but as a fan of a great franchise i actually look at the long term solution and not the short term like most scrub teams do.

question for all of you in such high support of ike. How much longer exactly do you expect ike to be playing at a high level? and how much longer do you expect keenan to be playing at a high level?

also in regards to cortez. i love his potential as well, but its hypocritical to say that keenan had one good year here so he isnt worth it while cortez only had 3 good games as an actual starter and he's anointed all offseason as a huge upgrade. Lol. seems to me steeler fans are usually reluctant to spin things in anyway unless it seems optimistic/beneficial for the team itself.


lets break this down ....

Lewis is making less than Ike but it is NOT as simple as cutting one and paying the other because of salary cap implications as it pertains to contracts being restructured in prior years ... cutting Ike would have been almost as expensive as keeping him and you still have not added the money necessary to get Lewis under contract ...

How much longer does Ike have ? who knows could be 1 more week could be 3 more years nobody knows ..........

Cortez vs Lewis 1 good year ..... nothing hypocritical about it Cortez is on his rookie deal so playing on the cheap , Lewis commanded a new contract with worth 10 times per year what Cortez is currently making ... Cortez showed more ball skills in those 3 starts than Lewis did in his 4 years here , the upgrade aspect was based on getting turnovers but Cortez is battling his way back from injury

[NJarhead]

lets break this down ....

Lewis is making less than Ike but it is NOT as simple as cutting one and paying the other because of salary cap implications as it pertains to contracts being restructured in prior years ... cutting Ike would have been almost as expensive as keeping him and you still have not added the money necessary to get Lewis under contract ...

How much longer does Ike have ? who knows could be 1 more week could be 3 more years nobody knows ..........

Cortez vs Lewis 1 good year ..... nothing hypocritical about it Cortez is on his rookie deal so playing on the cheap , Lewis commanded a new contract with worth 10 times per year what Cortez is currently making ... Cortez showed more ball skills in those 3 starts than Lewis did in his 4 years here , the upgrade aspect was based on getting turnovers but Cortez is battling his way back from injury

There an echo in here?

- - - Updated - - -


There is a better chance of a Sasquatch starting at LT on the team with the Abominable Snowman as FB than going to the playoffs this season.

You probably would have said exactly that had one of us told you the Browns would be in first place in 2013.

[steeldawg]

lewis is getting paid less than ike...and boy was it a cheap cornerback market this year even with some decent talent out there

i love ike as much as the next guy, but as a fan of a great franchise i actually look at the long term solution and not the short term like most scrub teams do.

question for all of you in such high support of ike. How much longer exactly do you expect ike to be playing at a high level? and how much longer do you expect keenan to be playing at a high level?

also in regards to cortez. i love his potential as well, but its hypocritical to say that keenan had one good year here so he isnt worth it while cortez only had 3 good games as an actual starter and he's anointed all offseason as a huge upgrade. Lol. seems to me steeler fans are usually reluctant to spin things in anyway unless it seems optimistic/beneficial for the team itself.

No I see your argument, lewis would of been a long term deal maybe the steelers didn't want to get locked in. You know let ike play out his contract and maybe bring in some young guys when ike is done and get our salary cap under control. I agree with you though if your looking for the cornerback of the future lewis was it for sure, Ike has 1 maybe 2 seasons left at high level if he is lucky, cutting ike and signing lewis made perfect sense.

[steelreserve]

Because his addition has been part of the reason why the saints not only have one of the best pass defenses, but one of the best overall defenses in the league. Roman harper, jenkins, and greer certainly arent the big difference, seeing as how the saints gave up the most total yards per game IN NFL HISTORY. They were constants, keenan and rob ryan were the new additions.

we totally had a shot at lewis. we couldve cut ike taylor and signed keenan lewis who wouldve been cheaper, or approximately the same price. A younger, cheaper, and budding option at cornerback vs. the complete opposite. They have pretty much the same skillset anyways: big, physical corners skilled in press and zone coverage, great tacklers, with a weak penchant for getting turnovers but have outstanding cover skills anyways.

Where's the logic in keeping ike taylor? Because he has been doing his job for a long time? He sure has, so long that he's 33 years old and could be finished any second. i swear to god if i hear the words "to keep our superbowl window open" one more time...

There's really no point in keeping Taylor around any longer; he's not going to help win any more championships. The reason we keep him is because, like so many of the highly paid veterans on the team, we restructured his contract so many times that we're basically stuck with it until it expires on its own. I don't think cutting him would have saved a dime; it would've just gone to dead money. Same thing for Woodley, Timmons, Ben, Miller.

As for "keeping the Super Bowl window open," yeah, you will hear that. That's what we did, and that's what we're paying for. Would it have been BETTER to do a good job developing young talent and replace the veterans who were getting overpriced? Well, duh. But we didn't draft well, so that's where we ended up instead. We got to an additional Super Bowl and now have a ton of cap trouble; the alternative would have been no Super Bowl and less cap trouble. Although I can also see how it would've been really easy to spend that money anyway and just plug in different names. Whatever; the situation is what it is, and there's nothing to do except try to NOT prolong the financial part of it any longer than we can help.

[Psycho Ward 86]

ah well you guys got me there. i didnt realize we restructured ike taylor's contract THAT much. anybody have any figures as far as how many times and how much we restructured his contract?

[Steeldude]

If we went to a 4-3 with these personnel Wood would (haha) play DE:

LDE: Woodley
DT: McLendon
DT: Heyward (or Hood)
RDE: Keisel

LOLB: Timmons
MLB: ?
ROLB: Jones

IMO, if they went 4-3 it would look like this...

OLB - Jones
MLB - Timmons
OLB - Worilds

DE - Heyward
DT - Mclendon
DT - Hood
DE - Woodley

[Dwinsgames]

they are not going to go 4-3 as long as Lebeau is in town

[steelreserve]

ah well you guys got me there. i didnt realize we restructured ike taylor's contract THAT much. anybody have any figures as far as how many times and how much we restructured his contract?

Actually, next year it looks like we might save some real money if we cut him. His base will be $7M and the prorated part is only another $3M in dead money. This year, it would've been save $6M in base salary and eat $6M in dead money ($3M for 2013 and $3M accelerated from 2014). So we ate most of that shit sandwich already. Steelers Depot thinks asking him to take a pay cut may be a real possibility:

http://www.steelersdepot.com/2013/09/steelers-2014-salary-cap-situation-heading-into-the-2013-season/

Woodley looks a lot worse. He's signed for 3 more years after this one, and over the last two years they've pushed $11.7M of his money into the future as prorated signing bonuses. That's in addition to the original signing bonus of $22.5 million, which I guess we've absorbed half of so far. So overall that would be about $23M in dead money starting next year, which we've maybe absorbed $5M of last year and this year. So call it $18M/$12M/$6M in dead money if we cut him. That won't save us any money at all except in the last year.

Timmons looks like he was 6 years, $50M and only a $10M signing bonus, and we pushed another $10M into the future over the past two years. That would mean we're on the hook for $5M from the original bonus and probably $7M of the rest, so $12M ... that would make his dead money $12M/$8M/$4M. Again, only makes sense in the last year of the deal.

Ben I don't even want to think about, but he's restructured it every year for as long as I can remember, and the last three are $6M, $8M, and $6M, so $20M altogether. He's also basically untouchable until the very last year and even then it sucks.

So anyway ... through at least 2015, we are locked into paying those three guys a cap hit of well over $10M each. We get less and less room to restructure into the future as the end of the contract comes near, too, unless we extend the deal also. We'll probably do that with Ben, but Woodley I believe goes up to a $14M cap hit, Timmons $12M, Miller $10M, and there's not much we can do about that. Any savings we get from cutting Taylor gets eaten right back up by that mess, and we're still several million in the hole on top of it. Yes, it's going to be ugly, and really what we need to focus on is not prolonging it into 2016, when we'll need to re-sign this current crop of rookies. Any rookies from 2012 or earlier that are any good, forget it, the're basically gone and there's nothing we can do about it, so best to just move on.

[O'Malley]

This is hopefully a huge wake up call... If they can string some wins together and win out in the division the season is not lost... What I have seen so far this year is an absence of good tackling... Cortez Allen is the worst tackler I have ever seen... The defense is young and Ben has more turnovers then many teams have collectively... Clean up the turnovers on offense and create some on defense, along with making open field tackles and this is a great squad..... The D just looks like they have never played together and their young... If they can manage to gel all is well....

[Texasteel]

This is hopefully a huge wake up call... If they can string some wins together and win out in the division the season is not lost... What I have seen so far this year is an absence of good tackling... Cortez Allen is the worst tackler I have ever seen... The defense is young and Ben has more turnovers then many teams have collectively... Clean up the turnovers on offense and create some on defense, along with making open field tackles and this is a great squad..... The D just looks like they have never played together and their young... If they can manage to gel all is well....

Allen is a much better tackler than he has shown, his injury could still be bothering him. I can understand some of Ben's turnovers since some seemed to be because the WR doesn't look like he wanted to help him much, and most of the time the line doesn't care to block anyone.

Is the Steelers still being in the hunt possible? Yes. Is it likely? No. Particularly if the line coach can't even teach these his players to open their own Cokes.

[zulater]

One bad game and Cortez Allen supposedly can't play now? Wow, people have a bad memory. This guy can cover and tackle, and is a very talented up and coming corner. They guy hardly had any preseason, and then missed most of the first 3 games due to injury. He was just rusty the other day.

[Count Steeler]

One bad game and Cortez Allen supposedly can't play now? Wow, people have a bad memory. This guy can cover and tackle, and is a very talented up and coming corner. They guy hardly had any preseason, and then missed most of the first 3 games due to injury. He was just rusty the other day.

In a related story, Le'veon Bell, will be inducted in Canton next year, because he will get 2 TDs every game he plays. Kind of like Obama getting the Nobel Prize after 2 months in office.

[NJarhead]

IMO, if they went 4-3 it would look like this...

OLB - Jones
MLB - Timmons
OLB - Worilds

DE - Heyward
DT - Mclendon
DT - Hood
DE - Woodley

SO we just cut Keisel? He'd be a beast as a 4-3 DE. I discounted Worilds because I think he's gone after this year, but yea, he could play 4-3 OLB. But I still think Timmons is the better option there.

- - - Updated - - -


One bad game and Cortez Allen supposedly can't play now? Wow, people have a bad memory. This guy can cover and tackle, and is a very talented up and coming corner. They guy hardly had any preseason, and then missed most of the first 3 games due to injury. He was just rusty the other day.

I'm not sure if you're including me in this post, but I'm with you. I was utterly disappointed in his performance the other day, but I don't think that's who he is. But, I also don't know for sure who he is.

[zulater]

By the way a little insight into the OP. Selling the thought that all remaining division games are winnable is the way I think Tomlin needs to put it to the team. Come out of the bye and beat the Jets and all of your goals are still attainable. Even though the team is down, to a man I think they feel as if they can beat the Bengals, the Browns and the Ravens. So you sell that aspect of it and see where it gets you.

[NJarhead]

By the way a little insight into the OP. Selling the thought that all remaining division games are winnable is the way I think Tomlin needs to put it to the team. Come out of the bye and beat the Jets and all of your goals are still attainable. Even though the team is down, to a man I think they feel as if they can beat the Bengals, the Browns and the Ravens. So you sell that aspect of it and see where it gets you.

Agree. Like Cowher did in 1995.

Also, I think (and hope) we crush the Jets. If we can't beat them (no matter where the game is played) with two weeks to prepare, then we're done.

[zulater]

Agree. Like Cowher did in 1995.

Also, I think (and hope) we crush the Jets. If we can't beat them (no matter where the game is played) with two weeks to prepare, then we're done.

Truer words were never spoken.

[steeldawg]

You guys are much more optimistic than me, getting to 9 wins with 12 games left and sweeping the division seems almost impossible.

[NJarhead]

You guys are much more optimistic than me, getting to 9 wins with 12 games left and sweeping the division seems almost impossible.

If we don't win next week, I'll be sitting right next to you. Admittedly, I am the eternal optimist. haha

[steeldawg]

If we don't win next week, I'll be sitting right next to you. Admittedly, I am the eternal optimist. haha

For me even if we win next week (which we should) I just cant find enough wins on our schedule to get to 9-7

[Shoes]

You guys are much more optimistic than me, getting to 9 wins with 12 games left and sweeping the division seems almost impossible.

Not impossible, but this team won't do it...and I'm very optimistic.

[Count Steeler]

I felt that we would be off to a rough start and be at about 4-4 at midseason. However, after the first 4 games, I would settle for 3-5 or 2-6. 10-6 is becoming a dream, 9-7 less so and 8-8 is the most likely positive season I can expect at this point. Of course, 0-16 is still on the table.

[steel striker]

Look this division can be won by one one of the four teams that are in it. Everyteam has issues and, I'm not going to say that the steelers will win it but, if they could get a couple of wins anything can happen. The offense is starting to come around and, if the defense can pull it together and, stop dropping picks and, actually get a few take aways you never know. It is still early plenty of football left.

[Shoes]

One bad game and Cortez Allen supposedly can't play now? Wow, people have a bad memory. This guy can cover and tackle, and is a very talented up and coming corner. They guy hardly had any preseason, and then missed most of the first 3 games due to injury. He was just rusty the other day.

I agree, Zu.....Allen will be fine. If I remember right, he was playing very well before his injury.. I also think he was one of the casualties of the London flight.

[Steelman]

Saw this on the ESPN comment section:


Niyi Delano · Top Commenter · Strayer University
good to see Lebeau finally doing something smart. For the past 2 weeks i have been saying, why doesn't this team go hybrid and on occasion play with a 43 defense. Kiesel, hood, Mcclendon and Heywood, or Woodley at end. Well in the 4th quarter it did happen. It was woodley and heywood at END, and MClendon and hood at DT. Granted, our 6th round rookie Linebacker played an awesome game, but we need to get our best talent on the field all the time and it was good to see lebeau finally do that.

I didn't see much of the game. Can anyone confirm if this really happened? Or how many plays we ran something like this? I'm just really curious, as some of us had speculated on this stuff earlier in this thread.

[Psycho Ward 86]

SO we just cut Keisel? He'd be a beast as a 4-3 DE.

more like way too slow