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stillers4me
10-01-2013, 05:20 PM
The flip into the end zone for a touchdown Sunday against the Minnesota Vikings might very well be the last one that Pittsburgh Steelers running back Le'Veon Bell does for while, according to Aditi Kinkhabwala of the NFL Network.

Bell, who scored his first NFL touchdown from eight yards out with 4:02 left in the first quarter, said Tuesday that he was given a pass for the flip from head coach Mike Tomlin because it was his first touchdown. Tomlin did, however, tell the second-round draft pick to be more careful with his body in the future..........

read more @
http://www.steelersdepot.com/2013/10/leveon-bell-has-likely-done-his-last-flip-into-the-end-zone-for-a-while/


http://twitpic.com/show/thumb/dfouo7.gif

Craic
10-01-2013, 05:22 PM
That flip was the most impressive thing about Bell in that game. Notice how he doesn't cheat to the left or right, it's a full tuck and flip.

Count Steeler
10-01-2013, 06:09 PM
Surprised he hasn't got fined. Well, it is still early. Along the lines of AB running backward into the end zone last year. We got the sizzle right, now let's work on the steak.

steelreserve
10-01-2013, 06:27 PM
I was just waiting for a bullshit flag to come out on that play, to which I would have yelled that he was perfectly justified in diving into the end zone as part of the play. Although the flip was a bit much. But hey, I'm not going to complain too much about hot-dogging if we actually scored a touchdown for once.

steeldawg
10-01-2013, 06:45 PM
Whats more impressive than the flip is the block by will Johnson, lol that was awesome.

steelerdude15
10-01-2013, 06:53 PM
Whats more impressive than the flip is the block by will Johnson, lol that was awesome.

Don't forget about Heath's block. That was equally as effective in the touchdown run.

steeldawg
10-01-2013, 07:19 PM
Don't forget about Heath's block. That was equally as effective in the touchdown run.

well heaths was good and workman like but Johnson's was flashy

zulater
10-01-2013, 07:35 PM
I hate to be the fuddy duddy, but I hated the flip. Notice when he comes through with the flip he only has one hand on the ball. If he loses that ball through the back of the end zone touchback, Vikings ball on the 20.

That said it was his first touchdown and I think Tomlin handled it perfectly.

steeldawg
10-01-2013, 07:36 PM
The way I see it no harm no foul just don't do it again

Craic
10-01-2013, 07:45 PM
Surprised he hasn't got fined. Well, it is still early. Along the lines of AB running backward into the end zone last year. We got the sizzle right, now let's work on the steak.


I was just waiting for a bullshit flag to come out on that play, to which I would have yelled that he was perfectly justified in diving into the end zone as part of the play. Although the flip was a bit much. But hey, I'm not going to complain too much about hot-dogging if we actually scored a touchdown for once.

There'd be nothing there, because he didn't turn around and taunt the other player, which is what Brown was penalized for. I don't have a problem with stopping that kind of stupidity in the NFL.

steeldawg
10-01-2013, 07:50 PM
I actually miss the taunting and the elaborate td celebrations.

Texasteel
10-01-2013, 08:01 PM
well heaths was good and workman like but Johnson's was flashy

We have gotten to except such plays out of DJ, and Heath. Show just how good they are.

Shoes
10-01-2013, 08:42 PM
Adams looks like he gave a high five to Jared Allen as he slid by.

SteelerFanInStl
10-01-2013, 08:46 PM
I hate to be the fuddy duddy, but I hated the flip. Notice when he comes through with the flip he only has one hand on the ball. If he loses that ball through the back of the end zone touchback, Vikings ball on the 20.

That said it was his first touchdown and I think Tomlin handled it perfectly.

You wouldn't be the only one. I hate that crap.

Shoes
10-01-2013, 08:48 PM
I hate to be the fuddy duddy, but I hated the flip. Notice when he comes through with the flip he only has one hand on the ball. If he loses that ball through the back of the end zone touchback, Vikings ball on the 20.

That said it was his first touchdown and I think Tomlin handled it perfectly.

Your not alone,Zu. Tho I would be more concerned about an injury over a senseless act.

zulater
10-01-2013, 08:55 PM
Just watching the link in the op. Even on that play Adams got destroyed! :doh: Just the play went to the other side so it didn't matter.

If they come out of the bye with Adams starting at left tackle then you know this coaching staff doesn't know what they hell they're doing!

fansince'76
10-01-2013, 10:25 PM
This team is 0-4. The last time that happened I was literally shitting green. Enough with the bullshit celebrations.

Shoes
10-01-2013, 10:30 PM
This team is 0-4. The last time that happened I was literally shitting green. Enough with the bullshit celebrations.


:toofunny:

katmandu
10-02-2013, 01:27 AM
Whats more impressive than the flip is the block by will Johnson, lol that was awesome.That was pretty awesome!

That is another bright spot this year is the Johnson twins are really looking pretty good blocking wise.

TheRuneMeister
10-02-2013, 06:15 AM
Surprised he hasn't got fined. Well, it is still early. Along the lines of AB running backward into the end zone last year. We got the sizzle right, now let's work on the steak.
Flipping 'into' the endzone is allowed. However, if it was a flip IN the endzone it would be considered 'going to the ground', and he would get an EC call.

- - - Updated - - -


I hate to be the fuddy duddy, but I hated the flip. Notice when he comes through with the flip he only has one hand on the ball. If he loses that ball through the back of the end zone touchback, Vikings ball on the 20.

That said it was his first touchdown and I think Tomlin handled it perfectly.
Not correct...it's a touchdown the second the ball breaks the plane. You cannot fumble the ball after that.
Thus, the only concern is his health, and whether it sends the correct signal to showboat like that.

NJarhead
10-02-2013, 06:35 AM
Slightly OT - I guess 99 isn't allowed to do his Bow celebration anymore due to "sensitivity." I know he was flagged for it two years ago, but I'd hoped the BFL came to their senses.

Steeldude
10-02-2013, 06:57 AM
Once again Tomlin lets it slide.

The Steelers players have continued doing lame celebrations after routine plays for years and Tomlin just lets it go. Whatever happened to getting back to the huddle and preparing for the next play?

NJarhead
10-02-2013, 07:09 AM
Hater = Realist



Hater = Hater.

Steeldude
10-02-2013, 07:18 AM
Hater = Hater.

Lover = Blind. Refer to the days of Kordell...lol.

How is that O-line doing? I guess it's doing great to you. Right? If you say it's not then you are a hater. Right?

So tell me, why do you like it when players celebrate routine plays?

NJarhead
10-02-2013, 08:47 AM
Lover = Blind. Refer to the days of Kordell...lol.

How is that O-line doing? I guess it's doing great to you. Right? If you say it's not then you are a hater. Right?

So tell me, why do you like it when players celebrate routine plays?

I've been pretty harsh with my words for our O-Line actually. I don't like it when players celebrate "routine plays." Like Ray Lewis celebrating a tackle for a 3 yard gain on first down. But Touchdowns, Sacks and INT's? I celebrate right along with them.

I also don't go into the "sky-is-falling panic mode" when times are tough. I'm more patient than that.


hate
[heyt] verb, hat·ed, hat·ing, noun

verb (used with object)
1.
to dislike intensely or passionately; feel extreme aversion for or extreme hostility toward; detest: to hate the enemy; to hate bigotry.

2.
to be unwilling; dislike: I hate to do it.

verb (used without object)
3.
to feel intense dislike, or extreme aversion or hostility.

noun
4.
intense dislike; extreme aversion or hostility.

5.
the object of extreme aversion or hostility.

__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ _______


dra·mat·ic
[druh-mat-ik]

adjective
1.
of or pertaining to the drama.

2.
employing the form or manner of the drama.

3.
characteristic of or appropriate to the drama, especially in involving conflict or contrast; vivid; moving: dramatic colors; a dramatic speech.

4.
highly effective; striking: The silence following his impassioned speech was dramatic.




SteelDude = Dramatic Hater.

steeldawg
10-02-2013, 09:44 AM
Once again Tomlin lets it slide.

The Steelers players have continued doing lame celebrations after routine plays for years and Tomlin just lets it go. Whatever happened to getting back to the huddle and preparing for the next play?

What would stopping celebrations do? Guys do celebrations on winning teams too.

Devilsdancefloor
10-02-2013, 10:13 AM
This team is 0-4. The last time that happened I was literally shitting green. Enough with the bullshit celebrations.
i agree act as though you have been there before

HollywoodSteel
10-02-2013, 12:18 PM
I've been pretty harsh with my words for our O-Line actually. I don't like it when players celebrate "routine plays." Like Ray Lewis celebrating a tackle for a 3 yard gain on first down. But Touchdowns, Sacks and INT's? I celebrate right along with them.

I also don't go into the "sky-is-falling panic mode" when times are tough. I'm more patient than that.


hate
[heyt] verb, hat·ed, hat·ing, noun

verb (used with object)
1.
to dislike intensely or passionately; feel extreme aversion for or extreme hostility toward; detest: to hate the enemy; to hate bigotry.

2.
to be unwilling; dislike: I hate to do it.

verb (used without object)
3.
to feel intense dislike, or extreme aversion or hostility.

noun
4.
intense dislike; extreme aversion or hostility.

5.
the object of extreme aversion or hostility.

__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ _______


dra·mat·ic
[druh-mat-ik]

adjective
1.
of or pertaining to the drama.

2.
employing the form or manner of the drama.

3.
characteristic of or appropriate to the drama, especially in involving conflict or contrast; vivid; moving: dramatic colors; a dramatic speech.

4.
highly effective; striking: The silence following his impassioned speech was dramatic.




SteelDude = Dramatic Hater.

I'm not going to try to get between you two, but I know you to be reasonable so I'll just say that being called a "hater" can rub people the wrong way. You're both passionate fans with strong opinions about stuff so I would say this isn't an argument worth having.

For the record, I like all celebrations that are fun (post whistle and non-dangerous only!) but I can see the other side when it comes to celebrating what could be considered "routine" plays. For instance, I do get a twinge of irritation when receivers do that pointing-with-the-ball-to-indicate-a-first-down thing. I am always thinking, BFD, get back in the huddle already.

HollywoodSteel
10-02-2013, 12:30 PM
Flipping 'into' the endzone is allowed. However, if it was a flip IN the endzone it would be considered 'going to the ground', and he would get an EC call.

- - - Updated - - -


Not correct...it's a touchdown the second the ball breaks the plane. You cannot fumble the ball after that.
Thus, the only concern is his health, and whether it sends the correct signal to showboat like that.

I think what Zu is saying is that he wasn't securing the ball properly before crossing the plane. I haven't rewatched but either way there was nothing good that could come from it. Even if he was just thinking about flipping his mind wasn't first and foremost on ball security.

- - - Updated - - -


I think what Zu is saying is that he wasn't securing the ball properly before crossing the plane. I haven't rewatched but either way there was nothing good that could come from it. Even if he was just thinking about flipping his mind wasn't first and foremost on ball security.

Even just looking at the gif on this thread(from a bad angle) it is clear that he is switching the ball from his sideline arm (where it should be) to his left arm simply so he can brace himself with his right arm when he flips. That crap should never even cross his mind. You don't switch the ball from arm to arm for a stupid reason like that. Even if the odds of fumbling are small, it's reason enough not to do it.

HollywoodSteel
10-02-2013, 12:39 PM
I think what Zu is saying is that he wasn't securing the ball properly before crossing the plane. I haven't rewatched but either way there was nothing good that could come from it. Even if he was just thinking about flipping his mind wasn't first and foremost on ball security.

- - - Updated - - -



Even just looking at the gif on this thread(from a bad angle) it is clear that he is switching the ball from his sideline arm (where it should be) to his left arm simply so he can brace himself with his right arm when he flips. That crap should never even cross his mind. You don't switch the ball from arm to arm for a stupid reason like that. Even if the odds of fumbling are small, it's reason enough not to do it.

I take that last part back. In this gif it looks like he's switching hands but after looking at another gif he is clearly doing exactly what Zu said he did: extending the ball away from his body with his right hand before crossing the plane, which is way worse. We see guys fumbling before crossing the plane doing that all the time. He clearly didn't need to extend for the TD - he could have run it right in - so there is absolutely no excuse for it.

HollywoodSteel
10-02-2013, 12:46 PM
Just watching the link in the op. Even on that play Adams got destroyed! :doh: Just the play went to the other side so it didn't matter.

If they come out of the bye with Adams starting at left tackle then you know this coaching staff doesn't know what they hell they're doing!


You are not wrong, but the one thing I can almost-sort-of give Adams credit for is being smart and releasing The defender rather than commit a blatant hold (which he almost does) knowing that the play is to the other side and his defender is already out of the play.

NJarhead
10-02-2013, 01:45 PM
I'm not going to try to get between you two, but I know you to be reasonable so I'll just say that being called a "hater" can rub people the wrong way. You're both passionate fans with strong opinions about stuff so I would say this isn't an argument worth having.

For the record, I like all celebrations that are fun (post whistle and non-dangerous only!) but I can see the other side when it comes to celebrating what could be considered "routine" plays. For instance, I do get a twinge of irritation when receivers do that pointing-with-the-ball-to-indicate-a-first-down thing. I am always thinking, BFD, get back in the huddle already.

It's cool. I really didn't identify him as a hater; he did (check his sig).

Psycho Ward 86
10-02-2013, 05:34 PM
You are not wrong, but the one thing I can almost-sort-of give Adams credit for is being smart and releasing The defender rather than commit a blatant hold (which he almost does) knowing that the play is to the other side and his defender is already out of the play.

you know you left tackle sucks when thats about the biggest compliment anyone can give him

HollywoodSteel
10-02-2013, 06:28 PM
you know you left tackle sucks when thats about the biggest compliment anyone can give him

Yeah, it is sad, but actually I think Foster and Glibert look even worse on the play. Adams on the left, knowing that the play is going the other way, is taking steps kind of sideways and back almost as if it's a pass play, so really he has no responsibility on the play other than to possibly fool the defense or something. He slows J. Allen down long enough to make sure he is kept completely out of the play. But if you look at what Bell does on the play, it appears as if he's looking for a hole between Foster and Gilbert before having no choice but to bounce it outside. Luckily Will Johnson makes a great diving block to stop Chad Greenway from blowing the play up in the backfield. Good vision and quick decision making on Bell's part and good blocking by everyone who isn't an offensive lineman created that TD.

At least that's what it looks like to me. Perhaps someone who is more knowledgeable about blocking schemes can chime in and say if I'm right or if it was a designed run to the outside and everyone did their jobs according to plan.

Count Steeler
10-02-2013, 06:36 PM
At least that's what it looks like to me. Perhaps someone who is more knowledgeable about blocking schemes can chime in and say if I'm right or if it was a designed run to the outside and everyone did their jobs according to plan.

:toofunny: :rofl2::toofunny:

HollywoodSteel
10-02-2013, 06:37 PM
Yeah, it is sad, but actually I think Foster and Glibert look even worse on the play. Adams on the left, knowing that the play is going the other way, is taking steps kind of sideways and back almost as if it's a pass play, so really he has no responsibility on the play other than to possibly fool the defense or something. He slows J. Allen down long enough to make sure he is kept completely out of the play. But if you look at what Bell does on the play, it appears as if he's looking for a hole between Foster and Gilbert before having no choice but to bounce it outside. Luckily Will Johnson makes a great diving block to stop Chad Greenway from blowing the play up in the backfield. Good vision and quick decision making on Bell's part and good blocking by everyone who isn't an offensive lineman created that TD.

At least that's what it looks like to me. Perhaps someone who is more knowledgeable about blocking schemes can chime in and say if I'm right or if it was a designed run to the outside and everyone did their jobs according to plan.

Sorry, I mean DeCastro and Gilbert, but mostly Gilbert. Although it looks like Gilbert never has any intention of blocking Greenway. He doubles DeCastro's guy for a moment and then moves on to the next level. Maybe Greenway was Johnson's assignment from the start and he was just late getting there. Like I said, perhaps someone who knows better can chime in.

Count Steeler
10-02-2013, 06:39 PM
Sorry, I mean DeCastro and Gilbert, but mostly Gilbert. Although it looks like Gilbert never has any intention of blocking Greenway. He doubles DeCastro's guy for a moment and then moves on to the next level. Maybe Greenway was Johnson's assignment from the start and he was just late getting there. Like I said, perhaps someone who knows better can chime in.

Heath is very telling on his block. At first he forces his guy towards the sideline, thinking the run is going inside. Then he notices Bell going to the outside, so he adjusts his position and blocks his player, preventing him from going outside.

HollywoodSteel
10-02-2013, 06:50 PM
While we're analyzing the play even more, you know who does the worst job of all? Wheaton. He has the perfect opportunity to throw a wicked block on the safety and take him out of the play, but he just kind of runs up to him, stops, and then chases him for no reason. It's that safety who comes closest to actually catching Bell on the play. Watch it again and imagine Hines Ward in Wheaton's position. That safety might still be asleep. :)

Although with these new rules who the hell knows what's legal and what isn't? Maybe Wheaton didn't feel like chancing a fine.

- - - Updated - - -


Heath is very telling on his block. At first he forces his guy towards the sideline, thinking the run is going inside. Then he notices Bell going to the outside, so he adjusts his position and blocks his player, preventing him from going outside.

Yeah, I noticed the exact same thing. Then I thought, damn, what a difficult thing it is that Heath does there without holding.

Steeldude
10-02-2013, 07:11 PM
What would stopping celebrations do? Guys do celebrations on winning teams too.

Who said anything about stopping all celebrations?

You still haven't explained how the Steelers' O-line can be bad when they are all talented NFL players.

Shoes
10-02-2013, 08:58 PM
What would stopping celebrations do? Guys do celebrations on winning teams too.

It has nothing to do with celebrations. It has to do with flipping into the end zone for no reason, and the head coach permitting it. They drafted Bell probably with the idea that he would be the #1 RB. This kid injuries his knee in training camp, then his foot after about four plays in preseason. We are 0-3, and low on talent in the RB department. Why would a coach permit this? Bell tweaked his ankle in the game and I wouldn't be surprised if it was on this play.

Watch his right ankle snap at about the 44 second mark in this video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B9dtytfi5jY

Texasteel
10-02-2013, 09:07 PM
Who said anything about stopping all celebrations?

You still haven't explained how the Steelers' O-line can be bad when they are all talented NFL players.

I get your point Dude. I bothers me to no end to see a defensive player that is owned all game, act like he just won the Super Bowl because he makes a tackle 10 yards past the line of scrimmage.

Lambert_Loonie
10-02-2013, 10:25 PM
This team is 0-4. The last time that happened I was literally shitting green. Enough with the bullshit celebrations.


i agree act as though you have been there before

So it's fine for fans to cheer and celebrate when a player makes a big play. But when a player makes a big play, they just shoudln't react to it at all.

Okay.

http://data.whicdn.com/images/35442569/tumblr_m325rtUBld1r0ftodo1_500_large.gif

Texasteel
10-02-2013, 11:05 PM
No sir, I don't mind players showing emotions at all. I just can't see acting like you've made the worlds greatest play when you do it 45 yards down field. or doing the same thing when you catch a 3 yard first down pass after you've dropped 4 easy passes before.

steeldawg
10-03-2013, 05:47 AM
Who said anything about stopping all celebrations?

You still haven't explained how the Steelers' O-line can be bad when they are all talented NFL players.

I didn't say all celebrations, but your complaining about tomlin letting it slide what do you want him to do about it? Who cares if a guy dances a jig after a 4 yard first down it fires up the players and the crowd, I want to see fire on every play. Are o line is talented they are just poorly coached, you really don't think our o-line is physically gifted enough to play in this league? Its simple you get guys playing out of position they make mistakes it causes confusion on the line and everybody looks bad. What I think is a better question is why cant we fix fundamental and mental mistakes that falls more on the coaching. We have seen adams block well so we know physically he can do it but he looks confused about his assignments out there and he is getting beat so yes I think our o-line has talent I just think we are poorly coached.

Steeldude
10-03-2013, 06:46 AM
I've been pretty harsh with my words for our O-Line actually. I don't like it when players celebrate "routine plays." Like Ray Lewis celebrating a tackle for a 3 yard gain on first down. But Touchdowns, Sacks and INT's? I celebrate right along with them.

I also don't go into the "sky-is-falling panic mode" when times are tough. I'm more patient than that.


hate
[heyt] verb, hat·ed, hat·ing, noun

verb (used with object)
1.
to dislike intensely or passionately; feel extreme aversion for or extreme hostility toward; detest: to hate the enemy; to hate bigotry.

2.
to be unwilling; dislike: I hate to do it.

verb (used without object)
3.
to feel intense dislike, or extreme aversion or hostility.

noun
4.
intense dislike; extreme aversion or hostility.

5.
the object of extreme aversion or hostility.


...cont'd...




SteelDude = Dramatic Hater.

Yes, I absolutely hate being 0-4 and I hate how the O-line has played. So since you are admonishing me for hating it then it must mean you love being 0-4 and you love the way the O-line is playing. I mean, you can't hate it because then you would be a hater. Right?

I see I am in your head after I posted my personal opinion. Should I create a signature that says "NJarhead = Blind Lover"? I said, "The Steelers players have continued doing lame celebrations after routine plays for years and Tomlin just lets it go. Whatever happened to getting back to the huddle and preparing for the next play". You called me a hater for it, but then you stated you don't like celebrating routine plays. Are you saying that rather than getting back to the huddle and preparing for next play they should take their time?

For the record, I don't think the sky is falling. This was expected. Pre-season showed how bad this O-line is.

Should celebrations include doing flips and making an ass out of yourself? I see no place for fruitcake dances and flips in the NFL, but I understand that some moronic players(Terrell Owens) have to do it. If you get a first down then get back to the scrimmage and help the team do it again. The players have been doing this way too much under Tomlin. IMO, Tomlin loves it. These players forget assignments, blocks, ball protection, tackling etc..., but the one thing they never seem to forget is to do an embarrassing dance/celebration after a routine play. I don't see Miller doing it or Polamalu. Arguably our two best players on each side of the ball.

NJarhead
10-03-2013, 07:05 AM
Yes, I absolutely hate being 0-4 and I hate how the O-line has played. So since you are admonishing me for hating it then it must mean you love being 0-4 and you love the way the O-line is playing. I mean, you can't hate it because then you would be a hater. Right?



This is where I stopped reading. And I think that's fair since you've not bothered to read and/or comprehend what I've written. I'm also going to spare myself from your flawed logic.

I'm sure we want the same things. Have a nice day. :drink:

fansince'76
10-03-2013, 07:16 AM
So it's fine for fans to cheer and celebrate when a player makes a big play. But when a player makes a big play, they just shoudln't react to it at all.

Okay.

http://data.whicdn.com/images/35442569/tumblr_m325rtUBld1r0ftodo1_500_large.gif

No, I just don't think 0-3 and already trailing by two scores in the first quarter of game #4 merits any celebrations whatsoever. If we'd have been 3-0 and winning against the Vikes at the time, I'd probably be singing a different tune.

Congrats on your first NFL TD, son. Now see the scoreboard? We're still behind. THAT is what matters. And that's ALL that matters.

Speaking of which, I don't think this team has even had a lead in any game this season yet...

Steeldude
10-03-2013, 07:57 AM
This is where I stopped reading. And I think that's fair since you've not bothered to read and/or comprehend what I've written. I'm also going to spare myself from your flawed logic.

I'm sure we want the same things. Have a nice day. :drink:

I read what you wrote. You wrote, "Hater = Hater. You called me a hater for my views. Right? You even went as far as to dedicate your signature to me. Right? I think we both know you read the entire post : ) No flawed logic here. Flips into the endzone serve no useful purpose. Letting players slide for doing it is letting the them know they can get away with it.

Have an excellent morning. Perhaps after the bye-week the Steelers will be a totally different team.

NJarhead
10-03-2013, 08:04 AM
I read what you wrote. You wrote, "Hater = Hater. You called me a hater for my views. Right? You even went as far as to dedicate your signature to me. Right? I think we both know you read the entire post : ) No flawed logic here. Flips into the endzone serve no useful purpose. Letting players slide for doing it is letting the them know they can get away with it.

Have an excellent morning. Perhaps after the bye-week the Steelers will be a totally different team.

It was his first NFL TD and it was early in the game. Beat him up for it if you want. I'm choosing not to.

I addressed your logic that "Hater = Realist." In your case, I disagree. You strike me as someone who is never happy.

Steeldude
10-03-2013, 08:25 AM
It was his first NFL TD and it was early in the game. Beat him up for it if you want. I'm choosing not to.

I addressed your logic that "Hater = Realist." In your case, I disagree. You strike me as someone who is never happy.

I don't care if it's his first TD or his 10,000th. Flips serve no purpose. If he gets injured then what? Remember Anthony Smith dancing around after his first INT. Guess who chewed him out? Lebeau

You seem content with mediocrity and poor performances. I, on the other hand, do not like them. You always strive to be better. You don't settle for 2nd place.


"I addressed your logic that "Hater = Realist."

That wasn't in the post was it? You addressed, "The Steelers players have continued doing lame celebrations after routine plays for years and Tomlin just lets it go. Whatever happened to getting back to the huddle and preparing for the next play"

You strike me as someone who becomes obsessed with people online.

NJarhead
10-03-2013, 08:28 AM
I don't care if it's his first TD or his 10,000th. Flips serve no purpose. If he gets injured then what? Remember Anthony Smith dancing around after his first INT. Guess who chewed him out? Lebeau

You seem content with mediocrity and poor performances. I, on the other hand, do not like them. You always strive to be better. You don't settle for 2nd place.

You strike me as someone who becomes obsessed with people online.

Any more than you? Lots of fallacies in your logic.

When did you ever score a TD in an NFL game?

I didn't think so.

st33lersguy
10-03-2013, 09:19 AM
He should act like he's been there before. Hopefully, he will enter the endzone a lot and hand the ball to the ref a lot

zulater
10-03-2013, 10:50 AM
It has nothing to do with celebrations. It has to do with flipping into the end zone for no reason, and the head coach permitting it. They drafted Bell probably with the idea that he would be the #1 RB. This kid injuries his knee in training camp, then his foot after about four plays in preseason. We are 0-3, and low on talent in the RB department. Why would a coach permit this? Bell tweaked his ankle in the game and I wouldn't be surprised if it was on this play.

Watch his right ankle snap at about the 44 second mark in this video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B9dtytfi5jY


You''re right that is a good way to get injured. :doh:

And shoes since you know how to cut a clip, can you do me a favor? On Ben's interception can you do a clip from where Emanuel Sanders comes into the video please? Maybe you could post it in the Barney Fife thread if you wouldn't mind. The reason being it looked to me like Sanders stopped in his tracks like a little girl shying from a mouse almost as the play is being made. Not saying he could have prevented it, but it sure seemed like his reaction to the play wasn't ideal.

SteelerFanInStl
10-03-2013, 10:54 AM
You''re right that is a good way to get injured. :doh:

And shoes since you know how to cut a clip, can you do me a favor? On Ben's interception can you do a clip from where Emanuel Sanders comes into the video please? Maybe you could post it in the Barney Fife thread if you wouldn't mind. The reason being it looked to me like Sanders stopped in his tracks like a little girl shying from a mouse almost as the play is being made. Not saying he could have prevented it, but it sure seemed like his reaction to the play wasn't ideal.

Yes, Sanders stopped on that play. That was the reason for the int. Ben obviously expected him to keep running.

Texasteel
10-03-2013, 09:09 PM
Yes, Sanders stopped on that play. That was the reason for the int. Ben obviously expected him to keep running.


I saw the same thing. I think it was confirmed be the tantrum he started to throw several seconds after the INT, not even thinking about trying to tackle the guy. Personally I think Sanders owns most if not all the blame for that play.

ALLD
10-03-2013, 09:16 PM
Franco never did that. He just tossed the ball over his shoulder like he had been there before. I would take a lesson from the greatest RB in Steeler history.

Psycho Ward 86
10-04-2013, 12:12 AM
Any more than you? Lots of fallacies in your logic.

When did you ever score a TD in an NFL game?

I didn't think so.

huh

steeldawg
10-04-2013, 05:52 AM
You''re right that is a good way to get injured. :doh:

And shoes since you know how to cut a clip, can you do me a favor? On Ben's interception can you do a clip from where Emanuel Sanders comes into the video please? Maybe you could post it in the Barney Fife thread if you wouldn't mind. The reason being it looked to me like Sanders stopped in his tracks like a little girl shying from a mouse almost as the play is being made. Not saying he could have prevented it, but it sure seemed like his reaction to the play wasn't ideal.

Sanders stopped for sure, he started to break it back to the inside and ben thought he was going to keep going outside which was evident the way they both threw their hands up at each other after the int.

- - - Updated - - -

I think we are way over analyzing this flip, It was pure excitement, he will never get to score his first nfl td again so he went in with some flare. He didn't do anything after his second td so really its not a concern.

zulater
10-04-2013, 06:10 AM
Sanders stopped for sure, he started to break it back to the inside and ben thought he was going to keep going outside which was evident the way they both threw their hands up at each other after the int.

- - - Updated - - -

I think we are way over analyzing this flip, It was pure excitement, he will never get to score his first nfl td again so he went in with some flare. He didn't do anything after his second td so really its not a concern.

It wasn't just that Sanders may have run the wrong pattern or had a miscommunication with Ben that bothered me, it was that after the interception was made he made no effort to go after they guy with the ball. In fact it looked to me like he shrunk back away from contact. If he just goes on the attack there, who knows maybe he forces a drop like their receiver did with Ike in the end zone.

Also on Bell's 2nd touchdown that was a dive into the middle of the line, no way he could flip even if he wanted to there. So to suggest that it was out of his system and unlikely to happen again without being addressed is a little far fetched.

NJarhead
10-04-2013, 06:22 AM
huh

1). Wasn't directed at you.

2). Not my problem if you can't comprehend it.

steeldawg
10-04-2013, 09:35 AM
It wasn't just that Sanders may have run the wrong pattern or had a miscommunication with Ben that bothered me, it was that after the interception was made he made no effort to go after they guy with the ball. In fact it looked to me like he shrunk back away from contact. If he just goes on the attack there, who knows maybe he forces a drop like their receiver did with Ike in the end zone.

Also on Bell's 2nd touchdown that was a dive into the middle of the line, no way he could flip even if he wanted to there. So to suggest that it was out of his system and unlikely to happen again without being addressed is a little far fetched.

I he still could of done a celebration afterwards, point is it was probably just something he did out of excitement for his first td I don't think he was planning to make a flip into the end zone his trademark.

Sanders just looked like he was to worried about showing his frustration rather than finishing the contact.

Steeldude
10-04-2013, 02:44 PM
Any more than you? Lots of fallacies in your logic.

When did you ever score a TD in an NFL game?

I didn't think so.

What does scoring a TD in an NFL game have to do with a poster commenting on a topic?

You were the one who obsessively put my name in your signature, not me. It's ok, it's normal for you people to get this emotional and upset over a person's post.

So it's not logical to say a player should not do flips into the endzone? Why?

steeldawg
10-04-2013, 03:22 PM
I don't care if it's his first TD or his 10,000th. Flips serve no purpose. If he gets injured then what? Remember Anthony Smith dancing around after his first INT. Guess who chewed him out? Lebeau

You seem content with mediocrity and poor performances. I, on the other hand, do not like them. You always strive to be better. You don't settle for 2nd place.


That wasn't in the post was it? You addressed, "The Steelers players have continued doing lame celebrations after routine plays for years and Tomlin just lets it go. Whatever happened to getting back to the huddle and preparing for the next play"

You strike me as someone who becomes obsessed with people online.

The steelers don't do anymore celebrations than any other team so saying tomlin should be doing something about it is ridiculous. These are professionals if they want to dance to bring attention to their brand then they are going to dance the coach is not going to stop them if you want to see coaches disciplining players I suggest you watch pee wee football. As far as I have seen we have not received a delay of game penalty for somebody doing a celebration they seem to get back to the huddle just fine. Banging on a guy who got over excited scoring his first td and banging on guys for celebrating makes you sound like a hater, you forget this is a game and most importantly entertainment . Yes its true you don't see miller dancing but then again you don't see miller signing any big endorsement deals either. Troy might not dance but he has a distinct appearance on the field that makes him appealing you think he does head and shoulders commercials just because he's a good safety? How many head and shoulders commercials has ed reed done? Players Promoting their brand is part of the biz, while you think TO was lame people where tuning into watch him. The majority of fans tuning in are looking for a show and could care less about matchups, route trees, and coverage schemes, the more entertaining the more people watch the more money players make.

X-Terminator
10-04-2013, 04:53 PM
I don't know about the rest of you, but the rare times I tune in to any football game these days, I don't do so to watch a bunch of robots with no emotion. I have never understood what the big deal was with people getting their panties in a wad over guys having some fun on the field. I can understand not liking it when it gets to the ridiculous, like TO or Joe Horn's "phone call," but come on...a flip? Dropping the ball and signalling a first down? Really people?

Roger Goodell has already done all he can to ruin the sport. At least let the guys have fun, for crying out loud.

Steeldude
10-04-2013, 07:09 PM
The steelers don't do anymore celebrations than any other team so saying tomlin should be doing something about it is ridiculous. These are professionals if they want to dance to bring attention to their brand then they are going to dance the coach is not going to stop them if you want to see coaches disciplining players I suggest you watch pee wee football. As far as I have seen we have not received a delay of game penalty for somebody doing a celebration they seem to get back to the huddle just fine. Banging on a guy who got over excited scoring his first td and banging on guys for celebrating makes you sound like a hater, you forget this is a game and most importantly entertainment . Yes its true you don't see miller dancing but then again you don't see miller signing any big endorsement deals either. Troy might not dance but he has a distinct appearance on the field that makes him appealing you think he does head and shoulders commercials just because he's a good safety? How many head and shoulders commercials has ed reed done? Players Promoting their brand is part of the biz, while you think TO was lame people where tuning into watch him. The majority of fans tuning in are looking for a show and could care less about matchups, route trees, and coverage schemes, the more entertaining the more people watch the more money players make.

Why would I care about what other teams do in regards of celebrations? Celebrating a 1 yard gain is completely asinine.

They're professionals? Then act like it. Don't act like Pee Wee football players.

I get it, you like punks, show-boaters and players who try only went they want to. You believe in giving a ton of money based on your personal emotions, not what a player brings to the team and it's overall implications to the cap.


Players Promoting their brand is part of the biz

Where does it say that? The same people who like TO are the same people who like reality shows. You know, the dumb, easily amused masses.


you forget this is a game and most importantly entertainment

Actually it's a business. People pay to see their team win, not celebrate simple plays when behind on the scoreboard. It's a total embarrassment and it's not surprising that you fail to see it.

steeldawg
10-04-2013, 08:03 PM
Why would I care about what other teams do in regards of celebrations? Celebrating a 1 yard gain is completely asinine.

They're professionals? Then act like it. Don't act like Pee Wee football players.

I get it, you like punks, show-boaters and players who try only went they want to. You believe in giving a ton of money based on your personal emotions, not what a player brings to the team and it's overall implications to the cap.



Where does it say that? The same people who like TO are the same people who like reality shows. You know, the dumb, easily amused masses.



Actually it's a business. People pay to see their team win, not celebrate simple plays when behind on the scoreboard. It's a total embarrassment and it's not surprising that you fail to see it.

yes its a business its entertainment, people pay to see their teams play, when you buy a ticket your not promised a win you are not paying for wins your paying to watch a game, the show the experience. You really are a hater, your bitter, probably the fat kid that nobody picked in gym class. The guys celebrating are not punks, they are the pros, the guy sitting at home complaining about their celebrations is a punk. I believe in paying talented players, why are you angry we got rid of everyone you said was the problem and now we are 0-4.

Psycho Ward 86
10-04-2013, 08:18 PM
honestly, i would love to see nfl players celebrate however they want as long as they arent palpably offensive to a culture/ethnicity/sexual orientation or just vulgar in general. I mean seriously, the NHL lets their guys get into freakin fights with little to no penalties imposed.

lets be serious, any professional sport is a business and entertainment. the only reason goodell hasnt been going easy on the celebrations is so that he doesnt look like he's as much of a greedy fuhrer as he really is. and as well know, that ship has sailed a long long time ago...

cold-hard-steel
10-04-2013, 08:45 PM
Thank the Lord he did not do the Rashard spin move .

Steeldude
10-05-2013, 05:41 AM
yes its a business its entertainment, people pay to see their teams play, when you buy a ticket your not promised a win you are not paying for wins your paying to watch a game, the show the experience. You really are a hater, your bitter, probably the fat kid that nobody picked in gym class. The guys celebrating are not punks, they are the pros, the guy sitting at home complaining about their celebrations is a punk. I believe in paying talented players, why are you angry we got rid of everyone you said was the problem and now we are 0-4.


Players Promoting their brand is part of the biz

Where does it say that? You forgot to answer.

Actually, you are paying to see your team win, not lose.

You are starting to cry again because not everyone follows your belief that players don't have to try on the field.

Do you like or hate how the O-line has been playing?
Do you like or hate being 0-4?


The guys celebrating are not punks, they are the pros

You really are young. Terrell Owens was a punk. Just as Pacman Jones is a punk. Yes, I know, you adore that behavior, but more mature people do not share the same opinion.

See, now you are getting personal because someone doesn't like your buddy Bell's flip into the endzone. See how you let your personal feelings for players get in the way? What if Bell injured himself? It's ok because he is a pro and doesn't have to try? Right?


why are you angry we got rid of everyone you said

Who did I say to get rid of? List them. Don't run away to hid behind more childish namecalling : ) Why are you such a hater of people's opinions? If you don't like differing opinions then perhaps you should stop visiting this MB to find one where everyone agrees. I said the Steelers need to find tackles. They went into 2013 without a single tackle on the roster. By that I mean one that is worth something. It was painfully obvious that Gilbert and Adams were below average tackles. I also stated the Steelers needed an ILB along side Timmons. They failed to address it. I have also stated how the players demonstrate poor fundamentals and lack of discipline. Didn't you post a comment saying that fundamentals aren't important? How is that going for them? Oh yeah, 0-4.


I believe in paying talented players

According to you everyone in the NFL is talented even before they play a single snap. You have pretty much alluded to Bell being a future HOFer.

Also, could you tell me more about how a WR doesn't have to fight for the ball? I am still trying to figure that one out, as are many others here...lol.

steeldawg
10-05-2013, 07:14 AM
Where does it say that? You forgot to answer.

Actually, you are paying to see your team win, not lose.

You are starting to cry again because not everyone follows your belief that players don't have to try on the field.

Do you like or hate how the O-line has been playing?
Do you like or hate being 0-4?



You really are young. Terrell Owens was a punk. Just as Pacman Jones is a punk. Yes, I know, you adore that behavior, but more mature people do not share the same opinion.

See, now you are getting personal because someone doesn't like your buddy Bell's flip into the endzone. See how you let your personal feelings for players get in the way? What if Bell injured himself? It's ok because he is a pro and doesn't have to try? Right?



Who did I say to get rid of? List them. Don't run away to hid behind more childish namecalling : ) Why are you such a hater of people's opinions? If you don't like differing opinions then perhaps you should stop visiting this MB to find one where everyone agrees. I said the Steelers need to find tackles. They went into 2013 without a single tackle on the roster. By that I mean one that is worth something. It was painfully obvious that Gilbert and Adams were below average tackles. I also stated the Steelers needed an ILB along side Timmons. They failed to address it. I have also stated how the players demonstrate poor fundamentals and lack of discipline. Didn't you post a comment saying that fundamentals aren't important? How is that going for them? Oh yeah, 0-4.



According to you everyone in the NFL is talented even before they play a single snap. You have pretty much alluded to Bell being a future HOFer.

Also, could you tell me more about how a WR doesn't have to fight for the ball? I am still trying to figure that one out, as are many others here...lol.

You can stop with your strawman argument about how Im trying to start a cult following in support of players who don't try your making yourself look dumb. Yes promoting your own brand as a player is part of the biz, it doesn't have to say it. Players have to promote themselves in order to get endorsement deals because teams are not going to, players need to promote themselves to sell autographs and jerseys. The players are the product and there is no better way to move product than advertising. Terrell owens on the same level with pac man huh? That shows how much of hater you really are, you equate celebration dances on a football field to actual crimes. Everyone in the nfl is talented that's why they are given contracts before they take a snap in the nfl, we don't have them play see how they do and decide if we are going to pay them. I never once said bell is a future hall of famer not once did I even allude to it. I said he would be the starter which he is, I said he was better than dwyer and redman which he is. lets see players you wanted gone, Mendy, Wallace, foote that I can think of off the top of my head because they where the problem right?

zulater
10-05-2013, 07:47 AM
I disliked the flip for 3 reasons.

In order.
1. Ball security. If you're thinking celebration prior to the points going up on the scoreboard your focus isn't 100% where it needs to be. How many times have we seen a guy spike the ball before the end zone or fumble into the end zone ( Antonio Brown Raiders game last season) because the celebration become foremost in their thoughts? Enough that players should be taught that celebrations don't start until the whistle blows the play dead. Besides what if you flip into the end zone and the play is called back on a hold? :doh:

2. Injury risk is heightened. You look at that play and see the way he rolls the one ankle at the end and you can't tell me that isn't risky? Football is a tough enough sport without adding elements of gymnastics to it.

3. Touchdowns are a result of a team effort. If the blocking isn't there there is no touchdown. So when you do shit like that you're making it all about yourself.:humble:

NJarhead
10-05-2013, 08:33 AM
What does scoring a TD in an NFL game have to do with a poster commenting on a topic?

You were the one who obsessively put my name in your signature, not me. It's ok, it's normal for you people to get this emotional and upset over a person's post.

So it's not logical to say a player should not do flips into the endzone? Why?

Apples to oranges and I made that statement (ironically) for those reasons.

haha, "you people."

Whatever dude. I'm done engaging you with this shit.

- - - Updated - - -


The steelers don't do anymore celebrations than any other team so saying tomlin should be doing something about it is ridiculous. These are professionals if they want to dance to bring attention to their brand then they are going to dance the coach is not going to stop them if you want to see coaches disciplining players I suggest you watch pee wee football. As far as I have seen we have not received a delay of game penalty for somebody doing a celebration they seem to get back to the huddle just fine. Banging on a guy who got over excited scoring his first td and banging on guys for celebrating makes you sound like a hater, you forget this is a game and most importantly entertainment . Yes its true you don't see miller dancing but then again you don't see miller signing any big endorsement deals either. Troy might not dance but he has a distinct appearance on the field that makes him appealing you think he does head and shoulders commercials just because he's a good safety? How many head and shoulders commercials has ed reed done? Players Promoting their brand is part of the biz, while you think TO was lame people where tuning into watch him. The majority of fans tuning in are looking for a show and could care less about matchups, route trees, and coverage schemes, the more entertaining the more people watch the more money players make.

Thank you.

- - - Updated - - -


I don't know about the rest of you, but the rare times I tune in to any football game these days, I don't do so to watch a bunch of robots with no emotion. I have never understood what the big deal was with people getting their panties in a wad over guys having some fun on the field. I can understand not liking it when it gets to the ridiculous, like TO or Joe Horn's "phone call," but come on...a flip? Dropping the ball and signalling a first down? Really people?

Roger Goodell has already done all he can to ruin the sport. At least let the guys have fun, for crying out loud.

Yep!

Shoes
10-05-2013, 09:54 AM
So you guys (as a head coach) would be comfortable with your RB's & WR's (not limited to our team) doing flips into the end zone?

steeldawg
10-05-2013, 10:01 AM
So you guys (as a head coach) would be comfortable with your RB's & WR's (not limited to our team) doing flips into the end zone?

No but like I said guys are not going to do it all the time, It was the guy's first td im not going to crucify him for it nor do I think tomlin should do anymore than what he did about it. I was more against the idea that guys shouldn't be celebrating, they should just hand the ball to the ref and go back to the huddle, that to me is ridiculous.

Shoes
10-05-2013, 10:24 AM
Injuries come often to this team in normal play....why risk stupid, unnecessary ones...and it only takes one. This is all on Tomlin imo, and shows me a disconnect in his thinking. Get creative and find another way to celebrate. It's better to run backwards into the end zone and get a 10k fine like Brown did. :chuckle:

NJarhead
10-05-2013, 10:27 AM
No but like I said guys are not going to do it all the time, It was the guy's first td im not going to crucify him for it nor do I think tomlin should do anymore than what he did about it. I was more against the idea that guys shouldn't be celebrating, they should just hand the ball to the ref and go back to the huddle, that to me is ridiculous.

:applaudit:

steeldawg
10-05-2013, 10:29 AM
Injuries come often to this team in normal play....why risk stupid, unnecessary ones...and it only takes one. This is all on Tomlin imo, and shows me a disconnect in his thinking. Get creative and find another way to celebrate. It's better to run backwards into the end zone and get a 10k fine like Brown did. :chuckle:

How could it be all on tomilin and a disconnect in his thinking? Its not like it was designed flip into the endzone.

Shoes
10-05-2013, 10:45 AM
How could it be all on tomilin and a disconnect in his thinking? Its not like it was designed flip into the endzone.

Since it was done in the past by other players, why not make a rule (as head coach) no flips into the end zone? Find another way.

Mistah Q
10-05-2013, 02:26 PM
Crikes you guys like to argue about some nonsense. It happened, it wasn't a good idea. It was his first TD so I give him a pass. It won't happen again, or if it does, then we have a problem.

I have a problem with players taking unnecessary risk or showboating before the points is scored. Again it's his first TD, I give him a pass. Welcome to the big-time Le'Veon, now buckle down. Let's start to moan if he does it a second time. I do not have a problem with a little celebration after the points are scored.

Mojouw
10-05-2013, 04:04 PM
This is some serious "you kids get off my lawn" grumpiness going on here!

I get the act you've been there before thing and all that, but let these guys play a bit. Let's not forget these are 20 some year olds for the most part getting paid to play a game.

Fighting or trash-talking the other team, celebrating injuries, these are "classless" causes for concern. So...you know...what the Ravens and Jets do.

Steeldude
10-06-2013, 01:35 PM
You can stop with your strawman argument about how Im trying to start a cult following in support of players who don't try your making yourself look dumb. Yes promoting your own brand as a player is part of the biz, it doesn't have to say it. Players have to promote themselves in order to get endorsement deals because teams are not going to, players need to promote themselves to sell autographs and jerseys. The players are the product and there is no better way to move product than advertising. Terrell owens on the same level with pac man huh? That shows how much of hater you really are, you equate celebration dances on a football field to actual crimes. Everyone in the nfl is talented that's why they are given contracts before they take a snap in the nfl, we don't have them play see how they do and decide if we are going to pay them. I never once said bell is a future hall of famer not once did I even allude to it. I said he would be the starter which he is, I said he was better than dwyer and redman which he is. lets see players you wanted gone, Mendy, Wallace, foote that I can think of off the top of my head because they where the problem right?

That wouldn't be a straw man argument. You did say if you were a GM, that just signed a WR to a multi-million dollar, that you wouldn't expect the WR to try to catch every pass thrown his way. Here is a refresher below...

Steeldude: You are the GM. You just signed a WR to a multi-million dollar contract. Do you expect him to try to catch every pass thrown his way?

Steeldawg: No I dont

No one said or implied you are trying to start a cult. See how worked up and angry you are getting again?

Clarify what you mean by "brand".

I was referring to their attitudes, not a criminal history. Yes, they are both punks. Owens is a dead beat dad. In my book that makes him a punk.

Explain how you know for a fact that Bell is better than Redman and Dwyer? You stated this before Bell played a single down.

Mendenhall and Wallace wouldn't have made a difference this season. As for Foote, I said they need to find a replacement so they can get rid of him. They should have looked into a replacement as soon as Farrior retired. I stated the Steelers need to fix the O-line. They again failed to address the problem by hoping lesser players(Gilbert and Adams) would fix it.


Do you like or hate how the O-line has been playing?
Do you like or hate being 0-4?

You forgot to answer. I wonder why?


Shoes: So you guys (as a head coach) would be comfortable with your RB's & WR's (not limited to our team) doing flips into the end zone?

Steeldawg: no

Wouldn't that answer make you a hater? Or are you applying double-standards?

steeldawg
10-06-2013, 03:25 PM
That wouldn't be a straw man argument. You did say if you were a GM, that just signed a WR to a multi-million dollar, that you wouldn't expect the WR to try to catch every pass thrown his way. Here is a refresher below...

Steeldude: You are the GM. You just signed a WR to a multi-million dollar contract. Do you expect him to try to catch every pass thrown his way?

Steeldawg: No I dont

No one said or implied you are trying to start a cult. See how worked up and angry you are getting again?

Clarify what you mean by "brand".

I was referring to their attitudes, not a criminal history. Yes, they are both punks. Owens is a dead beat dad. In my book that makes him a punk.

Explain how you know for a fact that Bell is better than Redman and Dwyer? You stated this before Bell played a single down.

Mendenhall and Wallace wouldn't have made a difference this season. As for Foote, I said they need to find a replacement so they can get rid of him. They should have looked into a replacement as soon as Farrior retired. I stated the Steelers need to fix the O-line. They again failed to address the problem by hoping lesser players(Gilbert and Adams) would fix it.


Do you like or hate how the O-line has been playing?
Do you like or hate being 0-4?

You forgot to answer. I wonder why?


Shoes: So you guys (as a head coach) would be comfortable with your RB's & WR's (not limited to our team) doing flips into the end zone?

Steeldawg: no

Wouldn't that answer make you a hater? Or are you applying double-standards?

Im done with explaining the same things to you over and over I think your a fool, go bother somebody else and stop tugging on supermans cape.

Steeldude
10-06-2013, 03:56 PM
Im done with explaining the same things to you over and over I think your a fool, go bother somebody else and stop tugging on supermans cape.

In other words you can't explain your hypocrisy. Another personal attack? Lol...so typical of you. If you don't like people replying to you on a public forum then perhaps you should go elsewhere. Don't start crying because you can't prove your claims or answer simple questions about football.

Let's try again...

Do you like or hate how the O-line has been playing?
Do you like or hate being 0-4?

Why so afraid to answer? You are certainly quick to ask others questions and to hurl childish insults.

Btw, you haven't explained anything. Pounding insults and running the other direction is not explaining. : ) Countless people on here I have noted this about you.

NJarhead
10-06-2013, 04:09 PM
Im done with explaining the same things to you over and over I think your a fool, go bother somebody else and stop tugging on supermans cape.

I think we all are.

steeldawg
10-06-2013, 04:11 PM
I think we all are.

I literally have gone in circles like 5 or 6 different times with him.

Steeldude
10-06-2013, 04:20 PM
I think we all are.

Just because you refused to answer some simple questions is no reason to put on a false act in an attempt to save face. Perhaps you two can confer in private messaging and then get back to me...lol. Better yet, bring in more people to help you out.

Your problem is you get too personally involved with people's opinions. We all have differing opinions. When you call somewhat out on their opinion don't start crying when you are called out. Maybe you can help Steeldawg understand that all players must try on every play, not some plays.

You take care and remember we can't all agree with each other : )

Steeldude
10-06-2013, 04:25 PM
I literally have gone in circles like 5 or 6 different times with him.

That didn't answer the questions. Let's try again...

Do you like or hate how the O-line has been playing?
Do you like or hate being 0-4?

Shoes: So you guys (as a head coach) would be comfortable with your RB's & WR's (not limited to our team) doing flips into the end zone?

Steeldawg: no

Wouldn't that answer make you a hater? Or are you applying double-standards?

I will happily review each of your posts to prove you haven't answered a question or proven your claims. Like your claim that Bell is better than Dwyer or Redman even before taking a single snap. What you do instead is hide behind insults. Thank you for proving my point

Texasteel
10-06-2013, 05:32 PM
Don't think it's gotten too personal yet, but I feel that it might. So I would request everyone to think about what you are saying before you post. Thank you guys.

steeldawg
10-06-2013, 06:10 PM
Don't think it's gotten too personal yet, but I feel that it might. So I would request everyone to think about what you are saying before you post. Thank you guys.

Don't worry im done

stillers4me
10-06-2013, 06:18 PM
Good Lord people. This first win can't come soon enough.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk 4

NJarhead
10-06-2013, 08:16 PM
Just because you refused to answer some simple questions is no reason to put on a false act in an attempt to save face. Perhaps you two can confer in private messaging and then get back to me...lol. Better yet, bring in more people to help you out.

Your problem is you get too personally involved with people's opinions. We all have differing opinions. When you call somewhat out on their opinion don't start crying when you are called out. Maybe you can help Steeldawg understand that all players must try on every play, not some plays.

You take care and remember we can't all agree with each other : )

:huh:

HollywoodSteel
10-07-2013, 01:48 PM
I think people are arguing past each other on some of the points here. If I'm not mistaken, no one likes the decision Bell made here. Am I wrong?

If anything it was an opportunity for Tomlin to be perfectly clear from this point forward (although in my opinion he should have been clear about this on the first day of training camp): No showboating before the ball crosses the plane of the end-zone. Ever. No going in backwards, no flipping, no needlessly extending the ball from your body. EVER! And even if you cross the plane, don't do anything to risk an injury or penalty. Seems pretty simple to me. I honestly don't believe anyone disagrees with that. We can quibble about how big a deal it is, or if the No Fun League has gone too far, but as far as the practical implications to our team I'm pretty sure we're all on the same page, no?

zulater
10-09-2013, 07:24 AM
I think people are arguing past each other on some of the points here. If I'm not mistaken, no one likes the decision Bell made here. Am I wrong?

If anything it was an opportunity for Tomlin to be perfectly clear from this point forward (although in my opinion he should have been clear about this on the first day of training camp): No showboating before the ball crosses the plane of the end-zone. Ever. No going in backwards, no flipping, no needlessly extending the ball from your body. EVER! And even if you cross the plane, don't do anything to risk an injury or penalty. Seems pretty simple to me. I honestly don't believe anyone disagrees with that. We can quibble about how big a deal it is, or if the No Fun League has gone too far, but as far as the practical implications to our team I'm pretty sure we're all on the same page, no?


This is what it's all about to me.

Mistah Q
10-13-2013, 01:51 PM
I was (and still am) ready to excuse Bell because it was his first touchdown - but now Sanders does it? Come on Tomlin, get a grip on your team.

Steeldude
10-13-2013, 01:52 PM
Another flip into the endzone. Wait...I thought Tomlin put an end to that...lol.

X-Terminator
10-13-2013, 02:05 PM
And I still don't understand why people have sand in their vaginas over flips in the end zone. He didn't kick the family dog, you guys.

Mistah Q
10-13-2013, 02:13 PM
I enjoy showboating, I am not one of the no-fun-league people; but I think actual flips are an unnecessary injury risk. Especially the luck our team's had with injuries, I don't want to see that. I'm glad to forgive Bell because it was his first TD, but I don't want to see our other guys doing it too.

Steeldude
10-13-2013, 02:16 PM
And I still don't understand why people have sand in their vaginas over flips in the end zone. He didn't kick the family dog, you guys.

Injuries

X-Terminator
10-13-2013, 02:29 PM
I enjoy showboating, I am not one of the no-fun-league people; but I think actual flips are an unnecessary injury risk. Especially the luck our team's had with injuries, I don't want to see that. I'm glad to forgive Bell because it was his first TD, but I don't want to see our other guys doing it too.


Injuries

OK, I can understand that.

stillers4me
10-13-2013, 04:34 PM
Considering the past 4 games....I'll give him a pass on this one.

Manny is one of the few players that replies to fans on his FB page.....

https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash4/s32x32/211625_100000844584365_1247566_q.jpg (https://www.facebook.com/sascha.barz.3)
http://www.steelersuniverse.com/images/chat/tab/close.png (http://www.steelersuniverse.com/forums/#)
Sascha Barz (https://www.facebook.com/sascha.barz.3) What did the Coach say about your flip into the endzone?




Emmanuel Sanders (https://www.facebook.com/TheNextGreat88) Don't do it again lol
Unlike (http://www.steelersuniverse.com/forums/#) · 13 (http://www.steelersuniverse.com/browse/likes?id=586161818086085) · 4 minutes ago

HollywoodSteel
10-13-2013, 04:59 PM
Considering the past 4 games....I'll give him a pass on this one.

Manny is one of the few players that replies to fans on his FB page.....

https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash4/s32x32/211625_100000844584365_1247566_q.jpg (https://www.facebook.com/sascha.barz.3)
http://www.steelersuniverse.com/images/chat/tab/close.png (http://www.steelersuniverse.com/forums/#)
Sascha Barz (https://www.facebook.com/sascha.barz.3) What did the Coach say about your flip into the endzone?




Emmanuel Sanders (https://www.facebook.com/TheNextGreat88) Don't do it again lol
Unlike (http://www.steelersuniverse.com/forums/#) · 13 (http://www.steelersuniverse.com/browse/likes?id=586161818086085) · 4 minutes ago



I don't get it. Does everyone on the team get to do it once? Can't we just have a team policy that says you'll get fined for doing anything unnecessarily dangerous?

stillers4me
10-13-2013, 05:06 PM
Get a grip, people. We finally win a game and all I see is bitching. We have players getting hurt in pre game warm ups.

HollywoodSteel
10-13-2013, 05:22 PM
Get a grip, people. We finally win a game and all I see is bitching. We have players getting hurt in pre game warm ups.

Really? Is that all you see? I am never anything but civil on this board but your post just seems rude. This is a thread about one specific topic. It has nothing to do with bitching. If you have a point to make about the subject, then make it and I'll be happy to change my opinion if you are persuasive, but I see no reason why you have to be insulting. No one insulted you for your opinion that he should be given a pass. And I didn't read anyone saying that it is a huge deal. It just happens to be a topic that some people want to discuss, hence the thread. Would your opinion about it be different if we'd lost? Why should that matter at all?

No one is bitching (except the bitching about other posters who dare to make practical policy suggestions).

steeldawg
10-13-2013, 06:57 PM
Really? Is that all you see? I am never anything but civil on this board but your post just seems rude. This is a thread about one specific topic. It has nothing to do with bitching. If you have a point to make about the subject, then make it and I'll be happy to change my opinion if you are persuasive, but I see no reason why you have to be insulting. No one insulted you for your opinion that he should be given a pass. And I didn't read anyone saying that it is a huge deal. It just happens to be a topic that some people want to discuss, hence the thread. Would your opinion about it be different if we'd lost? Why should that matter at all?

No one is bitching (except the bitching about other posters who dare to make practical policy suggestions).

Or someone bitching about other posters bitching about other posters bitching....Its a vicious cycle.

Texasteel
10-13-2013, 07:03 PM
stillers4me has the same right to her opinion as anyone else does. I don't think she was being rude at all. Her opinion is that some of you are making to much out of this, I have to say I have the same opinion.

Psycho Ward 86
10-13-2013, 07:17 PM
Or someone bitching about other posters bitching about other posters bitching....Its a vicious cycle.

true story

HollywoodSteel
10-13-2013, 07:51 PM
Or someone bitching about other posters bitching about other posters bitching....Its a vicious cycle.

I was thinking the same thing as I was typing it. I was even hearing it in Fat Bastard's voice from Austin Powers. :)

86WARD
10-13-2013, 08:08 PM
The way Sanders landed after that flip, I had visions of Gus Frerotte...that would've sucked had he injured his back after that .

HollywoodSteel
10-13-2013, 08:17 PM
stillers4me has the same right to her opinion as anyone else does. I don't think she was being rude at all. Her opinion is that some of you are making to much out of this, I have to say I have the same opinion.

How do you know how big a deal I was making out of it? I don't think it's a big deal in the grand scheme of things at all. I wasn't particularly bitchy or displaying any lack of a grip. This is the topic of the thread so I commented on the topic. Perhaps it was wrong of me to use the expression "bitching" as well, but as I've said, I would never have dismissed her opinion in a derogatory manner like that if it wasn't a reaction to feeling insulted. Maybe I was being too sensitive, but here I am in a great mood about our victory, not bitching or losing my grip in any way, and I see that there are new comments on the thread so I check it out and respond that I think it's weird that we don't have a policy about flipping into the end zone, like a fine or something. Seems like a reasonable opinion. Maybe I'm wrong and whenever someone does it they should get a pass. I can accept that I'm mistaken if I am. But you don't see how it can be perceived as rude for that to be called bitching? And to be told to get a grip? Like I'm not happy about the victory or something? It just seemed so odd to read "all I see is bitching..."

Now I can laugh at myself and at the vicious cycle thing and I'll be the first to apologize if I insult someone without meaning to. I'm going to guess that Stillers4me didn't mean to be insulting. And I do apologize for in any way being insulting back. For the record, I'm thrilled with the victory and I'm feeling nothing right now but love for the team and all of you. You all get a pass as far as I'm concerned. :peace::tt02:

Texasteel
10-13-2013, 08:22 PM
How do you know how big a deal I was making out of it? I don't think it's a big deal in the grand scheme of things at all. I wasn't particularly bitchy or displaying any lack of a grip. This is the topic of the thread so I commented on the topic. Perhaps it was wrong of me to use the expression "bitching" as well, but as I've said, I would never have dismissed her opinion in a derogatory manner like that if it wasn't a reaction to feeling insulted. Maybe I was being too sensitive, but here I am in a great mood about our victory, not bitching or losing my grip in any way, and I see that there are new comments on the thread so I check it out and respond that I think it's weird that we don't have a policy about flipping into the end zone, like a fine or something. Seems like a reasonable opinion. Maybe I'm wrong and whenever someone does it they should get a pass. I can accept that I'm mistaken if I am. But you don't see how it can be perceived as rude for that to be called bitching? And to be told to get a grip? Like I'm not happy about the victory or something? It just seemed so odd to read "all I see is bitching..."

Now I can laugh at myself and at the vicious cycle thing and I'll be the first to apologize if I insult someone without meaning to. I'm going to guess that Stillers4me didn't mean to be insulting. And I do apologize for in any way being insulting back. For the record, I'm thrilled with the victory and I'm feeling nothing right now but love for the team and all of you. You all get a pass as far as I'm concerned. :peace::tt02:

And we love you too bud.

Count Steeler
10-13-2013, 08:26 PM
I would hope that Tomlin makes it clear now that flips into the end zone are not allowed. By anyone.

HollywoodSteel
10-13-2013, 08:36 PM
And we love you too bud.

It actually reminded me of a joke:

At this monastery, all the monks have to live under a vow of silence, except for once a year, at Christmas, one monk gets to say one sentence out loud, and they take turns each year. So one year it's Brother Tim's turn to speak and he says, "the food here is good." An uneventful year rolls by and the next Christmas it's Brother Jim's turn to speak. He says, "the food here is bad." So another boring year rolls by and then it's Brother Lou's turn to speak. He says, "I'm leaving the monastery." The other monks are so shocked by this that they all break their vow of silence - they have to know why! Brother Lou explains, "I can't take all this bitching about the food."

:wink02:

katmandu
10-13-2013, 08:55 PM
Or someone bitching about other posters bitching about other posters bitching....Its a vicious cycle.I'm sorry I even opened this thread. :rolleyes: Perhaps this is the reason why this site has been so slow lately.

Can't people just keep the personal insults to themselves ? If not, take it OFF-Line.

Texasteel
10-13-2013, 09:12 PM
No insults bud. Just a few playful jabs. The threads fine, the posters are fine. People want to talk about it.

stillers4me
10-13-2013, 09:28 PM
Sorry if I came across as rude. I was just at a breaking point with reading about how the win wasn't "good enough' because it was only the Jets...after we just got our asses handed to us 4 games in a row by bad teams. We finally beat a bad team, and it still isn't enough. We score a TD...as if they are easy to come by these days and there's still something wrong with it. We just won our first game of the season and in perspective, the flip is minor.

I just want to enjoy winning for once without all the nit picking. We won. Finally. That's all that matters to me tonight.

And the Walking Dead. Season 4....finally!

So I'm sorry for being rude. It wasn't directed at any one person.

HollywoodSteel
10-13-2013, 09:45 PM
Sorry if I came across as rude. I was just at a breaking point with reading about how the win wasn't "good enough' because it was only the Jets...after we just got our asses handed to us 4 games in a row by bad teams. We finally beat a bad team, and it still isn't enough. We score a TD...as if they are easy to come by these days and there's still something wrong with it. We just won our first game of the season and in perspective, the flip is minor.

I just want to enjoy winning for once without all the nit picking. We won. Finally. That's all that matters to me tonight.

And the Walking Dead. Season 4....finally!

So I'm sorry for being rude. It wasn't directed at any one person.

No worries. It's all good. I think I just reacted more out of surprise than anything else because I really was enjoying the win.

I hope the zombie show lives up to your expectations as well! :drink:

steeldawg
10-13-2013, 10:40 PM
I'm sorry I even opened this thread. :rolleyes: Perhaps this is the reason why this site has been so slow lately.

Can't people just keep the personal insults to themselves ? If not, take it OFF-Line.

was that directed at me?

katmandu
10-14-2013, 08:15 AM
was that directed at me?Not if you didn't throw out any personal insults to anybody. It was a General statement to whomever it applies.

We have enough hatred in this country already (ie POLITICS), we don't need anymore IMHO.

Let's get back to Steeler football shall we ?

NJarhead
10-14-2013, 08:19 AM
I took it as a show of support for the rookie. OR, defiance of Tomlin, which I hope it wasn't. It'd better not be.

stillers4me
10-14-2013, 08:49 AM
I took it as a show of support for the rookie. OR, defiance of Tomlin, which I hope it wasn't. It'd better not be.

I saw it as a combination of OMG>>>>a play actually worked....finally! And Mike Wallace who?? I know Ben was ecstatic!

NJarhead
10-14-2013, 08:53 AM
I saw it as a combination of OMG>>>>a play actually worked....finally! And Mike Wallace who?? I know Ben was ecstatic!


hahahaha. I like yours better.

Dwinsgames
10-14-2013, 08:57 AM
back to Bell .... I am underwhelmed thus far , the running game has not improved and yes I realize our line sucks ass but at the same time great backs can run behind any line ( Barry Sanders prime example of that ) at this juncture Bell has not managed much and less than what was considered not good enough a year ago .... ( I don't want to hear excuses I want to see results ) and less YPC ( by nearly a half yard per carry ) behind the same line as the guy he has supplanted as the starter ... 32 attempts for less than 100 yards 2.8 YPC to this point ( ouch )

Psycho Ward 86
10-14-2013, 12:55 PM
back to Bell .... I am underwhelmed thus far , the running game has not improved and yes I realize our line sucks ass but at the same time great backs can run behind any line ( Barry Sanders prime example of that ) at this juncture Bell has not managed much and less than what was considered not good enough a year ago .... ( I don't want to hear excuses I want to see results ) and less YPC ( by nearly a half yard per carry ) behind the same line as the guy he has supplanted as the starter ... 32 attempts for less than 100 yards 2.8 YPC to this point ( ouch )

youre going to need a better example of great backs that can run behind any line because barry sanders compared to anyone really is laughable. there are a plethora of reasons he could do that, and none of those reasons are because he was a 230+ pound thumper trying to be a scatback

HollywoodSteel
10-14-2013, 02:20 PM
youre going to need a better example of great backs that can run behind any line because barry sanders compared to anyone really is laughable. there are a plethora of reasons he could do that, and none of those reasons are because he was a 230+ pound thumper trying to be a scatback

They did put in Felix Jones for a series (I think just one but I'm not sure). I wonder if they're trying to do some kind of Thunder and Lightning combo going forward. (And cue the jokes... maybe Farty and Static electricity? Doesn't exactly roll off the tongue. I'm sure someone else can do better)

But kidding aside, I never watched Bell in college so I don't know what he's capable of. He seems quicker and more decisive than Redman or Dwyer, but I guess that's not saying much. I'm willing to give the kid a little more time before judging, but if we're looking for a Barry Sanders type who can create magic all by himself, I'm thinking this probably isn't that guy.

Psycho Ward 86
10-14-2013, 02:45 PM
They did put in Felix Jones for a series (I think just one but I'm not sure). I wonder if they're trying to do some kind of Thunder and Lightning combo going forward. (And cue the jokes... maybe Farty and Static electricity? Doesn't exactly roll off the tongue. I'm sure someone else can do better)

But kidding aside, I never watched Bell in college so I don't know what he's capable of. He seems quicker and more decisive than Redman or Dwyer, but I guess that's not saying much. I'm willing to give the kid a little more time before judging, but if we're looking for a Barry Sanders type who can create magic all by himself, I'm thinking this probably isn't that guy.

thats because he's rare and doesnt even exist in the league right now. i challenge anyone to name one "great back" in the league that has a shit o-line. not average, but shit.

Dwinsgames
10-14-2013, 05:56 PM
back to the point instead of focusing on the Barry Sanders aspect of it look at what production we have got thus far .... Bell 2.8 YPC ... last year we averaged 4.0 from the starter and that was " not good enough " in the eyes of the masses ..... yes the line sucks , but it sucks less for Dwyer apparently since he is averaging nearly a half yard more per carry than Bell ( both with limited reps behind the same sucky line )

HollywoodSteel
10-14-2013, 07:20 PM
back to the point instead of focusing on the Barry Sanders aspect of it look at what production we have got thus far .... Bell 2.8 YPC ... last year we averaged 4.0 from the starter and that was " not good enough " in the eyes of the masses ..... yes the line sucks , but it sucks less for Dwyer apparently since he is averaging nearly a half yard more per carry than Bell ( both with limited reps behind the same sucky line )

Are you saying you don't like the pick and wish we'd left Dwyer as our starter or addressed it in some other way?

Count Steeler
10-14-2013, 07:37 PM
Are you saying you don't like the pick and wish we'd left Dwyer as our starter or addressed it in some other way?

I think he is saying he is not ready to call Bell the Messiah for the running game, when his on the field performance has yet to surpass what another back on the roster was able to achieve with the same inadequate OLine. If Bell is already being hailed as a good pick, or a good future, he has yet to prove it on the field. To wit, Dwyer was being run out of town, after achieving better results last year.

At least, I think that is what he is saying. I'm sure Dwins will give his own words soon enough.

Dwinsgames
10-15-2013, 07:16 AM
Are you saying you don't like the pick and wish we'd left Dwyer as our starter or addressed it in some other way?
no , I am saying we now have the investment ( much like we have in the O-Line ) and it is failing to get the job done ....

- - - Updated - - -


I think he is saying he is not ready to call Bell the Messiah for the running game, when his on the field performance has yet to surpass what another back on the roster was able to achieve with the same inadequate OLine. If Bell is already being hailed as a good pick, or a good future, he has yet to prove it on the field. To wit, Dwyer was being run out of town, after achieving better results last year.

At least, I think that is what he is saying. I'm sure Dwins will give his own words soon enough.
pretty much ( and perhaps better than I could have said it myself ) .... Also they where not afraid to bench Adams who was a second round pick who underwhelmed

Dwinsgames
10-15-2013, 08:14 AM
2 first round picks and 2 second round picks where the starting 0-linemen with a second round pick slated to be the starting RB , sure some injuries came into play but also a high level addition to the line at Center whom is playing very well yet we still can not run the football ..... at what point do you take a step back and say what we are doing is not working .... at what point do you determine it is the men on the field or the men off the field making the decisions that is the problem be it scheme or decisions on who should and should not be on the field and make the proper adjustments .... do we have the players on roster to make any scheme successful ? some of the questions that need to be asked and some answers we need to find out in short order .... who's feet does this lay upon Colbert or Tomlin we will not know for sure until we answer some of the above questions but once we know those answers someone needs to be accountable for putting these players in a position to fail , I see lots of blame pie to go around but who handcuffed who first is the primary target ... did Colbert fail to give Tomlin the necessary components or did Tomlin fail to utilize those components to the best of their ability ..you can not fix the problem till you are certain of what the problem is ..I know my answer ( does not mean it is correct but it is my feeling on it ) whats yours ?

NJarhead
10-15-2013, 08:49 AM
2 first round picks and 2 second round picks where the starting 0-linemen with a second round pick slated to be the starting RB , sure some injuries came into play but also a high level addition to the line at Center whom is playing very well yet we still can not run the football ..... at what point do you take a step back and say what we are doing is not working .... at what point do you determine it is the men on the field or the men off the field making the decisions that is the problem be it scheme or decisions on who should and should not be on the field and make the proper adjustments .... do we have the players on roster to make any scheme successful ? some of the questions that need to be asked and some answers we need to find out in short order .... who's feet does this lay upon Colbert or Tomlin we will not know for sure until we answer some of the above questions but once we know those answers someone needs to be accountable for putting these players in a position to fail , I see lots of blame pie to go around but who handcuffed who first is the primary target ... did Colbert fail to give Tomlin the necessary components or did Tomlin fail to utilize those components to the best of their ability ..you can not fix the problem till you are certain of what the problem is ..I know my answer ( does not mean it is correct but it is my feeling on it ) whats yours ?

I found this article to be fairly informative regarding drafting o-linemen. I think some of them still need coaching and experience. You're seldom going to nail a solid starter with a late pick (as we've had more than not recently).

http://www.post-gazette.com/stories/sports/steelers/steelers-know-uncertainty-of-drafting-offensive-linemen-707371/

Second, and we've all heard this before, you don't force your players to adapt to you, you adapt to your players strengths (on offense). So, if the adjustment isn't "taking" then the blame is Haley's for not being able to adapt himself. Then Tomlin's for not doing anything about it.

But, Colbert, Tomlin, Lebeau, Art Rooney II, and in most cases the players, aren't to blame. Perhaps you can throw a position coach in there as well, but it would appear that all the adjustments are Haley's to make: Adjust to your players; coach your players; call the plays that makes them successful, or resign.

That's my take.

steeldawg
10-15-2013, 09:31 AM
We already labeling le'veon bell as failing? I think that is incredibly premature he just scored 2 Tds the game before and this week he's a failed pick. My goodness the guy had no preseason lets not throw in the towel after 2 games.

NJarhead
10-15-2013, 10:17 AM
We already labeling le'veon bell as failing? I think that is incredibly premature he just scored 2 Tds the game before and this week he's a failed pick. My goodness the guy had no preseason lets not throw in the towel after 2 games.

Admittedly, I skipped a few posts, but I wouldn't have given any credit to one who states that Bell is a bust already. I mean, c'mon! haha

Dwinsgames
10-15-2013, 01:02 PM
We already labeling le'veon bell as failing? I think that is incredibly premature he just scored 2 Tds the game before and this week he's a failed pick. My goodness the guy had no preseason lets not throw in the towel after 2 games.

hello ??? did you even read what was said ? 2.8 YPC is not being successful when his predecessor was gaining 4.0 and considered not good enough ...... but to get the full jest might I suggest reading it again this time in its entirety and not going so far and stopping because you did not like what you seen

Psycho Ward 86
10-15-2013, 01:40 PM
well if we arent going to focus at all on the barry sanders aspect of your argument, can we at least see some evidence that there are great backs that can run behind any line? i currently see none, and i dont expect bell to be the exception. i have admittedly been very skeptical about bell because of his tendency to run like a scatback even though he's a big guy, and because i dont like that he ran upright all the time in college, along with a other reasons. But im not going to give up on a guy after 2 games. of course im going to root for his success.

And i certainly dont expect leveon bell to be able to run successfully against the 2nd ranked run defense in the NFL. Lmao, not behind this crap heap of an offensive line. You dont seem to be giving the jets defense any credit. i cant find anybody unwilling to give muhammad wilverson and sheldon richardson rave reviews

Dwinsgames
10-15-2013, 02:34 PM
well if we arent going to focus at all on the barry sanders aspect of your argument, can we at least see some evidence that there are great backs that can run behind any line? i currently see none, and i dont expect bell to be the exception. i have admittedly been very skeptical about bell because of his tendency to run like a scatback even though he's a big guy, and because i dont like that he ran upright all the time in college, along with a other reasons. But im not going to give up on a guy after 2 games. of course im going to root for his success.

And i certainly dont expect leveon bell to be able to run successfully against the 2nd ranked run defense in the NFL. Lmao, not behind this crap heap of an offensive line. You dont seem to be giving the jets defense any credit. i cant find anybody unwilling to give muhammad wilverson and sheldon richardson rave reviews

I must have missed the memo that the invisible poster made about GIVING UP ON BELL , ( nice attempt at twisting words but its a FAIL ) .... Just how good have those Raider 0-Lines been the past half dozen years , how about the Chiefs prior to this season just how good is / was Phillys 0-Line past 3-4 years ? none of where very good yet they have had pretty good success running the football when their primary back has been healthy ( McFadden , Charles and McCoy respectfully ) ... but as you where saying ??

Psycho Ward 86
10-15-2013, 04:19 PM
I must have missed the memo that the invisible poster made about GIVING UP ON BELL , ( nice attempt at twisting words but its a FAIL ) .... Just how good have those Raider 0-Lines been the past half dozen years , how about the Chiefs prior to this season just how good is / was Phillys 0-Line past 3-4 years ? none of where very good yet they have had pretty good success running the football when their primary back has been healthy ( McFadden , Charles and McCoy respectfully ) ... but as you where saying ??

i never said you gave up on him. i just said I'm not going to give up on him yet. read carefully next next time.

And lol thats rich. do you honestly think the raiders, chiefs, and eagles have bad offensive lines?

the eagles have:

1)Lane Johnson: a number #4 overall pick who along with eric fisher and luke joeckel composed the cream of the crop of a draft class of offensive linemen considered one of the very best in a long time
2) Todd Herremans: Who has been considered to play at a very high level (pro bowl level to be specific) by the Philly media at both guard and tackle
3) Jason Kelce: Who received rave reviews from Howard Mudd, a former All-pro player himself and one of the most respected coaches in the league
4) Evan Mathis: The highest rated guard in the entire NFL in 2011 and 2012 according to PFF
5) Jason Peters: a 5x pro bowler and 4x all-pro. Still considered one of the best.

And most of them have been around together for a couple years...

the chiefs are just starting 4 out of 5 returning veterans including Branden Albert, who andy reid calls pro bowl caliber and jon asamoah, who was rated highly by PFF at 10th in the league, along with the entire chiefs line which graded out at 8th overall in run blocking, and 12th overall. Their line has been good this season and prior to this season. And if you want to look even farther back, two words for you. Brian Waters.

Contrary to literally everything you said, the eagles and chiefs have very good o-lines, and have HAD very good o-lines and its a big part of the reason why they have great backs.

And no, mcfadden is not a great back even when healthy. he has never been on pace for any kind of great season when healthy. so the raiders are irrelevant.

I find it peeving that you seem to throw out random misleading statements out of whim that are completely false and pretend they are true when they arent. it seems like a habit and you are simply not a reliable source of information even if you think you are when you do that. so im going to have to disagree




http://www.csnphilly.com/blog/eagles-talk/eagles-sign-herremans-three-year-extension
http://articles.philly.com/2011-08-05/news/29854869_1_jackson-injury-jamaal-jackson-eagles-first-round
http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2012/01/05/2011-pff-all-pro-team/
http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2012/01/05/2011-pff-all-pro-team/
https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2013/01/28/ranking-the-2012-offensive-lines/3/
https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2013/05/28/secret-superstar-jon-asamoah/

HollywoodSteel
10-15-2013, 04:33 PM
I feel like this is getting uglier than it has to because you guys don't seem too far apart from each other when it comes to the overall picture. Whether or not there are a lot of, some, or almost no RBs in the NFL who can create great numbers without much help, it doesn't seem like we have a guy like that (so far at least, unless Bell turns into that guy) on our roster. And it seems to me that you both more or less agree that a good deal of blame should be placed on the coaching staff/front office for either not making the most out of the talent we have or not getting the talent we need. Isn't that right?

Psycho Ward 86
10-15-2013, 04:36 PM
I feel like this is getting uglier than it has to because you guys don't seem too far apart from each other when it comes to the overall picture. Whether or not there are a lot of, some, or almost no RBs in the NFL who can create great numbers without much help, it doesn't seem like we have a guy like that (so far at least, unless Bell turns into that guy) on our roster. And it seems to me that you both more or less agree that a good deal of blame should be placed on the coaching staff/front office for either not making the most out of the talent we have or not getting the talent we need. Isn't that right?

no, i just believe people shouldnt consistently throw out information that is completely wrong for discussion and pretend it should be relevant. i believe thats warranted, but thats just my opinion

steeldawg
10-15-2013, 04:46 PM
hello ??? did you even read what was said ? 2.8 YPC is not being successful when his predecessor was gaining 4.0 and considered not good enough ...... but to get the full jest might I suggest reading it again this time in its entirety and not going so far and stopping because you did not like what you seen

Yes I read it! Its crazy Its only been 2 games and he had no preaseason. He already matched dwyers touchdown total from last year after one game. He could come out next game and go for 150 and then hes a success. Not to mention bell gives us a receiver out of the backfield. He is a much better runner than dwyer you can see it when he gets the ball and when he gets settled in hes going to start finding holes.

Craic
10-15-2013, 06:04 PM
Yes I read it! Its crazy Its only been 2 games and he had no preaseason. He already matched dwyers touchdown total from last year after one game. He could come out next game and go for 150 and then hes a success. Not to mention bell gives us a receiver out of the backfield. He is a much better runner than dwyer you can see it when he gets the ball and when he gets settled in hes going to start finding holes.

TD totals: meaningless. Sorry, but that's just as much play calling as it is anything else, and on top of that, it's also choosing one back over the other. Last year, Redman had the reputation of the short yardage back, so he was going to get the carries close to the goal line. That stat itself is pretty much worthless. Associate that with what is actually happening on the field, and I'll say that of his two TDs, one of them was impressive. He worked to get the ball in the endzone, and I liked what I saw.

Bell as a receiver: actually, according to the stats, Felix Jones is slightly the better receiver out of the backfield. He has 4 receptions on four targets for 8 yards and a first down. Bell has 7 receptions on 8 targets for an average of 7 yards and 2 first downs. "Go for 150 yards and then he's a success": um, no, no no. By those standards, Jonathon Dwyer is a great success since he had two 100 yard games back to back last year. It takes a lot more than a single 100 or 150 yard game to be a "success" in this league. As for being a much better runner than Dwyer, you really like to see things through rose-colored glasses, don't you? Dwyer has a better yards per rush average. He's actually running over people, and he's a much better blocker. Though Dwyer has a lot fewer rushing attempts, they have the same number of first downs.

Look, I get that you're excited about the kid. Heck, I'm cautiousness optimistic myself. I see some real potential in him, not the type of potential that Mendenhall had and then tossed away, but I do see some good potential in him.

However, let's hold off in anointing the kind the second coming of John Kuhn, shall we?

HollywoodSteel
10-15-2013, 06:16 PM
I feel like this is getting uglier than it has to because you guys don't seem too far apart from each other when it comes to the overall picture. Whether or not there are a lot of, some, or almost no RBs in the NFL who can create great numbers without much help, it doesn't seem like we have a guy like that (so far at least, unless Bell turns into that guy) on our roster. And it seems to me that you both more or less agree that a good deal of blame should be placed on the coaching staff/front office for either not making the most out of the talent we have or not getting the talent we need. Isn't that right?

I had a feeling that wasn't going to work.

Count Steeler
10-15-2013, 06:18 PM
I think it is becoming abundantly clear that talent evaluation is not a strong suit of the current coaching staff. Whatever criteria they use just doesn't make sense. In a way I am kind of glad that Brown got hurt, because the urge would have been there to pull Beachum after the almost safety. Or worse, Brown would have started and we would not be developing Beachum. Beachum has the brains and the brawn to develop into something at LT. Probably the best O Lineman we have right now, certainly the most versatile. I would love to see him play out the season at LT.

As for the RB, why is Redman still on the roster? I hope Bell does become that back that we all want him to be. Hope he stays healthy and plays in every game that remains in this season.

tube517
10-15-2013, 06:41 PM
However, let's hold off in anointing the kind the second coming of John Kuhn, shall we?

:rofl2:

HollywoodSteel
10-15-2013, 06:44 PM
However, let's hold off in anointing the kind the second coming of John Kuhn, shall we?

Okay, I thought the Barry Sanders comparisons were a stretch, but at least we were talking about another mere mortal. But as a former preacher you should know better than to invoke the Lord's name in vain. :hail:

Steeldude
10-15-2013, 06:48 PM
Unfortunately, there are members on every forum who get angry if someone has a differing opinion/view. They will say things like "Hater" or "You are not a fan" etc...

Thankfully this MB has moderators who do not act in that manner.

steeldawg
10-15-2013, 07:00 PM
TD totals: meaningless. Sorry, but that's just as much play calling as it is anything else, and on top of that, it's also choosing one back over the other. Last year, Redman had the reputation of the short yardage back, so he was going to get the carries close to the goal line. That stat itself is pretty much worthless. Associate that with what is actually happening on the field, and I'll say that of his two TDs, one of them was impressive. He worked to get the ball in the endzone, and I liked what I saw.

Bell as a receiver: actually, according to the stats, Felix Jones is slightly the better receiver out of the backfield. He has 4 receptions on four targets for 8 yards and a first down. Bell has 7 receptions on 8 targets for an average of 7 yards and 2 first downs. "Go for 150 yards and then he's a success": um, no, no no. By those standards, Jonathon Dwyer is a great success since he had two 100 yard games back to back last year. It takes a lot more than a single 100 or 150 yard game to be a "success" in this league. As for being a much better runner than Dwyer, you really like to see things through rose-colored glasses, don't you? Dwyer has a better yards per rush average. He's actually running over people, and he's a much better blocker. Though Dwyer has a lot fewer rushing attempts, they have the same number of first downs.

Look, I get that you're excited about the kid. Heck, I'm cautiousness optimistic myself. I see some real potential in him, not the type of potential that Mendenhall had and then tossed away, but I do see some good potential in him.

However, let's hold off in anointing the kind the second coming of John Kuhn, shall we?

TD totals meaningless? I think a guy who gets in the endzone is very meaningful, the first game was a perfect example the first td was not a great play call that got him in the endzone it was a good run. The 150 and a success was saracastic in order to show how yards per carry total can change with one game. No bell is a better receiver out of the backfield than jones, the simple fact he has been targeted double the amount of times as jones in 4 fewer games shows he gets open. Lol your trying to tell me jones is a better receiver than bell because even though jones has less targets, less catches , less first downs, and less yards in 4 more games than bell, he is better because he is averaging 1 more yard per catch? I guess its easy to average a higher yards per carry when you carried the ball 5 times since bell has comeback in select situations where the defense thinks your going to pass protect.

HollywoodSteel
10-15-2013, 07:15 PM
TD totals meaningless? I think a guy who gets in the endzone is very meaningful, the first game was a perfect example the first td was not a great play call that got him in the endzone it was a good run. The 150 and a success was saracastic in order to show how yards per carry total can change with one game. No bell is a better receiver out of the backfield than jones, the simple fact he has been targeted double the amount of times as jones in 4 fewer games shows he gets open. Lol your trying to tell me jones is a better receiver than bell because even though jones has less targets, less catches , less first downs, and less yards in 4 more games than bell, he is better because he is averaging 1 more yard per catch? I guess its easy to average a higher yards per carry when you carried the ball 5 times since bell has comeback in select situations where the defense thinks your going to pass protect.


I'm not going to pretend that I know which one is the better receiver, but all I know is Jones gave me a heart attack on what should have been an easy catch on that pass from AB.

Dwinsgames
10-15-2013, 07:48 PM
no, i just believe people shouldnt consistently throw out information that is completely wrong for discussion and pretend it should be relevant. i believe thats warranted, but thats just my opinion

you mean like this shit ???? ( YOUR posts directed at me ) Mr Accuracy at his finest folks http://www.steelersuniverse.com/forums/showthread.php/18235-Yep-looks-like-Dwyer-is-back/page2

Psycho Ward 86
10-15-2013, 08:29 PM
you mean like this shit ???? ( YOUR posts directed at me ) Mr Accuracy at his finest folks http://www.steelersuniverse.com/forums/showthread.php/18235-Yep-looks-like-Dwyer-is-back/page2

i see that you called me dickhead and asshole in the past and told moderators that you refuse to modify your post :thumbsup:. i suggest more maturity with a lack of name calling in future debates. As well as staying on topic, or at least on an appropriate tangent.

i agree with the notion on Redman. I cant believe how bad he's gotten in such a short period of time

Craic
10-15-2013, 08:55 PM
TD totals meaningless? I think a guy who gets in the endzone is very meaningful, the first game was a perfect example the first td was not a great play call that got him in the endzone it was a good run. The 150 and a success was saracastic in order to show how yards per carry total can change with one game. No bell is a better receiver out of the backfield than jones, the simple fact he has been targeted double the amount of times as jones in 4 fewer games shows he gets open. Lol your trying to tell me jones is a better receiver than bell because even though jones has less targets, less catches , less first downs, and less yards in 4 more games than bell, he is better because he is averaging 1 more yard per catch? I guess its easy to average a higher yards per carry when you carried the ball 5 times since bell has comeback in select situations where the defense thinks your going to pass protect.

No, it shows that he is on the field more. Look at the number of plays Bell has been on the field for, vs. the number of plays Jones has been on the field for. Targets to catches is the key, and they're equal. Actually, Jones has the better average, but I'm giving room here. What you need to look at is OPPORTUNITY vs. ACCOMPLISHMENT.

Tell me, what is the better deal, to buy 5 eggs, 4 of which are good, or 100 eggs, 50 of which are good? Your logic above says buying the 50 is a better deal. Do you vote democrat by chance?

Psycho Ward 86
10-15-2013, 09:01 PM
seems difficult to tell who's a better receiver with the lack of both opportunity and accomplishment:

Bell: 8 targets for 7 receptions, 49 yards, and a 7 ypc average

Jones: 4 targets for 4 receptions, 32 yards and a 8 ypc average

sure is promising to see that bell is on pace for a pretty good year in the receiving department even though he missed a few games
http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/player/_/stat/receiving/sort/receivingTargets/qualified/false/count/241

HollywoodSteel
10-15-2013, 09:22 PM
No, it shows that he is on the field more. Look at the number of plays Bell has been on the field for, vs. the number of plays Jones has been on the field for. Targets to catches is the key, and they're equal. Actually, Jones has the better average, but I'm giving room here. What you need to look at is OPPORTUNITY vs. ACCOMPLISHMENT.

Tell me, what is the better deal, to buy 5 eggs, 4 of which are good, or 100 eggs, 50 of which are good? Your logic above says buying the 50 is a better deal. Do you vote democrat by chance?

I get what you're saying but your logic is not absolute. By that logic Antonio Brown is a better QB than Ben. Good thing Jones managed to hold onto that easy reception that he juggled all over the place. He secured AB's place as the best QB on the team. :wink02:

Craic
10-15-2013, 09:37 PM
I get what you're saying but your logic is not absolute. By that logic Antonio Brown is a better QB than Ben. Good thing Jones managed to hold onto that easy reception that he juggled all over the place. He secured AB's place as the best QB on the team. :wink02:

And I would agree with you, which is why I stated
Targets to catches is the key, and they're equal. Actually, Jones has the better average, but I'm giving room here.

And the last couple years at Dallas he dropped off, however, before that, Jones was an excellent receiver out of the backfield, going 19/22 and 48/52. I'm not stating by any means that Jones is the absolute best receiver on the team. What I was trying to point out, was that it is simply dreaming to state the same about Bell. It's just another case of assuming he's a wonder talent-laden NFL star when he hasn't yet proved himself.

As I said earlier in this and other threads, I do like what I see, but it's WAY to soon to make any kind of "statement" about him, except that his potential is looking good right now. IMO, not great, but good.

HollywoodSteel
10-15-2013, 10:12 PM
And I would agree with you, which is why I stated

And the last couple years at Dallas he dropped off, however, before that, Jones was an excellent receiver out of the backfield, going 19/22 and 48/52. I'm not stating by any means that Jones is the absolute best receiver on the team. What I was trying to point out, was that it is simply dreaming to state the same about Bell. It's just another case of assuming he's a wonder talent-laden NFL star when he hasn't yet proved himself.

As I said earlier in this and other threads, I do like what I see, but it's WAY to soon to make any kind of "statement" about him, except that his potential is looking good right now. IMO, not great, but good.

I know. I'm not disagreeing with you. Just kind of messing with you.

vader29
10-15-2013, 11:12 PM
I'm not going to pretend that I know which one is the better receiver, but all I know is Jones gave me a heart attack on what should have been an easy catch on that pass from AB.

Dwyer would have caught that ball in stride, triple somersaulted into the end zone and tapped out halfway through the second somersault. :chuckle:

HollywoodSteel
10-15-2013, 11:22 PM
Dwyer would have caught that ball in stride, triple somersaulted into the end zone and tapped out halfway through the second somersault. :chuckle:

John Kuhn would have caught the ball in his teeth, fixed the economy while breaking the land speed record, and then done a Thornton Melon Triple Lindy into the end zone before calmly handing the ball to the ref like he's been there before.

Craic
10-16-2013, 01:20 AM
I know. I'm not disagreeing with you. Just kind of messing with you.

I'm married, my mind gets messed with enough! :wink02:

steeldawg
10-16-2013, 05:54 AM
No, it shows that he is on the field more. Look at the number of plays Bell has been on the field for, vs. the number of plays Jones has been on the field for. Targets to catches is the key, and they're equal. Actually, Jones has the better average, but I'm giving room here. What you need to look at is OPPORTUNITY vs. ACCOMPLISHMENT.

Tell me, what is the better deal, to buy 5 eggs, 4 of which are good, or 100 eggs, 50 of which are good? Your logic above says buying the 50 is a better deal. Do you vote democrat by chance?

Im looking at opportunity if he cant get on the field its hard for me to say he's the better of the two. The logic is completely flawed, because as I pointed out with dwyer its much easier its to have better yards per totals in limited opportunities because you only have to be successful once or twice to drastically effect your averages. When you come in the game in the nfl in a limited capacity defenses are not keying on you, a lot times you get an easy draw or dump off on a third and long.

Steeldude
10-16-2013, 06:29 AM
TD totals meaningless? I think a guy who gets in the endzone is very meaningful, the first game was a perfect example the first td was not a great play call that got him in the endzone it was a good run. The 150 and a success was saracastic in order to show how yards per carry total can change with one game. No bell is a better receiver out of the backfield than jones, the simple fact he has been targeted double the amount of times as jones in 4 fewer games shows he gets open. Lol your trying to tell me jones is a better receiver than bell because even though jones has less targets, less catches , less first downs, and less yards in 4 more games than bell, he is better because he is averaging 1 more yard per catch? I guess its easy to average a higher yards per carry when you carried the ball 5 times since bell has comeback in select situations where the defense thinks your going to pass protect.

You anointed Bell as the best RB on the team before he stepped on the field. What stats did you use to determine he is the best RB?

NJarhead
10-16-2013, 06:33 AM
John Kuhn would have caught the ball in his teeth, fixed the economy while breaking the land speed record, and then done a Thornton Melon Triple Lindy into the end zone before calmly handing the ball to the ref like he's been there before.

.....and scored TWICE on one carry!

zulater
10-16-2013, 07:18 AM
You anointed Bell as the best RB on the team before he stepped on the field. What stats did you use to determine he is the best RB?

I'd say the coaching staff has done that. They must like what they've seen in practice and on film, even though that's rather limited and inconclusive at this time. But it's pretty clear to me the coaches think Le'Veon is their best back. Of course it might just be wishful thinking, process of elimination type proxy?

steeldawg
10-16-2013, 09:34 AM
You anointed Bell as the best RB on the team before he stepped on the field. What stats did you use to determine he is the best RB?

He is the best back on the team talent wise if you tried to use stats to see who starts rookies would never play. You evaluate your talent and put the best guy on the field, redman and Dwyer have had 4 years to make there case and they didn't get it done, it's time to let go of your dwyertopia it's not gonna happen.

Dwinsgames
10-16-2013, 10:44 AM
He is the best back on the team talent wise if you tried to use stats to see who starts rookies would never play. You evaluate your talent and put the best guy on the field, redman and Dwyer have had 4 years to make there case and they didn't get it done, it's time to let go of your dwyertopia it's not gonna happen.

Because 2.8 YPC > 4.0 YPC from last year he is trying to replace ...nice logic but the math is flawed

NJarhead
10-16-2013, 11:06 AM
Because 2.8 YPC > 4.0 YPC from last year he is trying to replace ...nice logic but the math is flawed

Actually, your math seems to be off too. According to the Steelers official website, we averaged 3.7 YPC in 2012:

http://www.steelers.com/team/statistics.html

Now that's 16 games. We still have 11 games left to get the running game going and improve form the actual 3.1 ypc we have now (not 2.8)and it starts up front, not with Bell.

Update: Another aspect of our declining O-line is the average of 3.8 sacks we're giving up this year, compared to the 2.3 from last year.

Steeldude
10-16-2013, 12:13 PM
He is the best back on the team talent wise if you tried to use stats to see who starts rookies would never play. You evaluate your talent and put the best guy on the field, redman and Dwyer have had 4 years to make there case and they didn't get it done, it's time to let go of your dwyertopia it's not gonna happen.

Then show what you used to determine it's a fact that Bell is the best RB on the team before ever stepping onto the field.

You seem to be confusing me with yourself. I don't care who starts just as long as they get the job done. They could cut Bell or Dwyer tomorrow and I wouldn't care. You are bitter when it comes to Dwyer because he unseated Mendenhall.

So far Bell looks like the other RBs behind the crappy O-line. 2.8YPC? It all starts with the O-line.

Dwinsgames
10-16-2013, 01:34 PM
Actually, your math seems to be off too. According to the Steelers official website, we averaged 3.7 YPC in 2012:

http://www.steelers.com/team/statistics.html

Now that's 16 games. We still have 11 games left to get the running game going and improve form the actual 3.1 ypc we have now (not 2.8)and it starts up front, not with Bell.

Update: Another aspect of our declining O-line is the average of 3.8 sacks we're giving up this year, compared to the 2.3 from last year.was not comparing team totals was comparing last years starter ( at end of season ) to Bell ... Dwyer was at 4.0( 2012 season average ) Bell currently is at 2.8 (2013 season average to this point ) Dwyer http://www.steelers.com/team/roster/Jonathan-Dwyer/5bfae686-9098-4bb3-85aa-bfd8c720d223 Bell http://www.steelers.com/team/roster/Le'Veon-Bell/7328d884-b29d-4a7b-8012-6ceb4fa35b8b

NJarhead
10-16-2013, 01:46 PM
was not comparing team totals was comparing last years starter ( at end of season ) to Bell ... Dwyer was at 4.0( 2012 season average ) Bell currently is at 2.8 (2013 season average to this point ) Dwyer http://www.steelers.com/team/roster/Jonathan-Dwyer/5bfae686-9098-4bb3-85aa-bfd8c720d223 Bell http://www.steelers.com/team/roster/Le'Veon-Bell/7328d884-b29d-4a7b-8012-6ceb4fa35b8b

Not sure how accurate or truthful that would be though. Too many variables. Not a big fan of stats myself as they don't tell the whole story. The O-Line makes the holes and the RB hits 'em. We have a whole stable of decent to good RB's who haven't been able to do squat this year. None of them have better potential than Bell, but he can't do it all. Barry Sanders made a living from making something out of nothing, but he's the only one (and he lost more yards than anyone in history).

Shanahan had productive RB's every year for years (many no-names) and those teams were all known for their blocking up front.

Dwinsgames
10-16-2013, 01:50 PM
Not sure how accurate or truthful that would be though. Too many variables. Not a big fan of stats myself as they don't tell the whole story. The O-Line makes the holes and the RB hits 'em. We have a whole stable of decent to good RB's who haven't been able to do squat this year. None of them have better potential than Bell, but he can't do it all. Barry Sanders made a living from making something out of nothing, but he's the only one (and he lost more yards than anyone in history).

Shanahan had productive RB's every year for years (many no-names) and those teams were all known for their blocking up front.

while I will agree it all starts up front , some guys are able to do more with nothing than others ..... give a rich man 10 bucks to eat on for an entire week and he will be starving come weeks end , give a poor man the same 10 bucks for the same weeks time and he will eat every day ( albeit beans and cabbage soup and the like but a full belly he will have ) The point was this Dwyer and his 4.0 YPC was considered not good enough , now the starter is giving us 2.8 YPC and some would like us to be excited about it ....

NJarhead
10-16-2013, 02:16 PM
while I will agree it all starts up front , some guys are able to do more with nothing than others ..... give a rich man 10 bucks to eat on for an entire week and he will be starving come weeks end , give a poor man the same 10 bucks for the same weeks time and he will eat every day ( albeit beans and cabbage soup and the like but a full belly he will have ) The point was this Dwyer and his 4.0 YPC was considered not good enough , now the starter is giving us 2.8 YPC and some would like us to be excited about it ....

Dwyer played himself out of a job in the pre-season. We also had one of our lowest rushing totals in team history (worst since the merger). At this point last year, we were already scratching our heads over our inability to run it. Despite Dwyer's ypc, he averaged less than 50 yards per game. I'm sure there are case-by-case reasons for that, but he's not "the guy." Never has been. 4 ypc, is misleading in his case and largely meaningless.

From what little I've seen, the guy who's more capable of doing more with less, is Bell, not Dwyer. He had one or two nice runs since his return and I'd attribute that to the fire that was lit under his ass from being cut. Before that, it was run to the line, stop and be tackled.

Dwinsgames
10-16-2013, 02:33 PM
Dwyer played himself out of a job in the pre-season. We also had one of our lowest rushing totals in team history (worst since the merger). At this point last year, we were already scratching our heads over our inability to run it. Despite Dwyer's ypc, he averaged less than 50 yards per game. I'm sure there are case-by-case reasons for that, but he's not "the guy." Never has been. 4 ypc, is misleading in his case and largely meaningless.

From what little I've seen, the guy who's more capable of doing more with less, is Bell, not Dwyer. He had one or two nice runs since his return and I'd attribute that to the fire that was lit under his ass from being cut. Before that, it was run to the line, stop and be tackled.

agree to disagree ... Dwyer was the teams leading rusher in the preseason and last season ( even though he only stated part of it ) his YPC average is what it is , the 50 yards per game is because they for whatever reason did not give him the ball enough to increase those numbers ..he still averaged what he averaged no way of changing that fact hell he averaged 12 attempts per game and put up over 600 yards rushing ...is he the answer as the starter now ? probably not but he is nearly a half yard better per carry behind the same line Bell is playing behind in 2013 .... not everyone is big on stats but they are a tool that shows a record of your accomplishments ( or lack thereof ) ...either way it is not a pretty picture

Count Steeler
10-16-2013, 04:15 PM
This whole argument boils down to a failure by this team to fix the running game. Rooney mandated it 3 years ago, many high draft picks were expended on O Linemen, running backs have been chosen as well.

The will is there, the drive is there, the expenditure is there, the execution is lacking. 1 game, I blame the players. Chronic, systemic problems, I blame the coaches.

Bicknell, Haley, Wilson and Tomlin have to get their act together. Get this O Line to execute and get these running backs to hit holes and drive.

Dwinsgames
10-16-2013, 04:50 PM
to be honest , I do not think Bell should have seen the field YET but the team was desperate to make something happen and perhaps rushed him back * pardon the pun * and now he is potentially feeling worse than he was on his initial start , granted I highly doubt Bell contested getting in on the action what Rookie would for his first career start ..... I like Bell and this was not / is not meant to be piling on for bad /subpar play .... I think he will be fine in the long run , just do not think this is his time YET ..... partly to being a Rookie , Partly because he has been hurt and last but not least the line play has been abysmal and he is still trying to adjust to the speed of the game while coping with all those other factors listed within this post ....

- - - Updated - - -


This whole argument boils down to a failure by this team to fix the running game. Rooney mandated it 3 years ago, many high draft picks were expended on O Linemen, running backs have been chosen as well.

The will is there, the drive is there, the expenditure is there, the execution is lacking. 1 game, I blame the players. Chronic, systemic problems, I blame the coaches.

Bicknell, Haley, Wilson and Tomlin have to get their act together. Get this O Line to execute and get these running backs to hit holes and drive.

you will get no argument from me

SteelerFanInStl
10-16-2013, 06:21 PM
I'm interested in seeing how many yards Bell gets this weekend against Baltimore after Lacy went for 120 against them last week.

Steeldude
10-16-2013, 06:59 PM
I'm interested in seeing how many yards Bell gets this weekend against Baltimore after Lacy went for 120 against them last week.

I don't expect much with the O-line's inability to consistently open holes. It seems to me that pretty much each RB has received yards when there is a hole. When there is no hole the RBs fail. IMO, it doesn't matter who is running the ball.

Psycho Ward 86
10-16-2013, 07:10 PM
im not that concerned yet. not sure if people realize yet the jets own the league's 2nd best run defense, and the run defense has been in the top 10 during most of rex ryan's coaching career in new york. i dont see how a runningback is going to have success against the 2nd best run defense in the league (whose strength is their D-line) with arguably the worst o-line in the league. That makes zero sense. Unless people were expecting leveon bell to be an elite back in his first 2 starts.

Against the vikings, although not nearly as formidable as the jets defensive front (but a team whose defensive line appears to be a strength), bell definitely looked like he manufactured some of his own yards, even though the line played poorly. 2 samples is just too small a sample to overthink things. i agree with steeldude though. get a decent line and/or intelligent offensive minded head coach and you can get 100 yards with anybody like mike shanahan

NJarhead
10-17-2013, 06:26 AM
agree to disagree ...

Agreed.

:drink:

SteelerFanInStl
10-17-2013, 08:20 AM
I don't expect much with the O-line's inability to consistently open holes. It seems to me that pretty much each RB has received yards when there is a hole. When there is no hole the RBs fail. IMO, it doesn't matter who is running the ball.

No doubt the OL is a problem.

Bluecoat96
10-17-2013, 11:02 AM
John Kuhn would have caught the ball in his teeth, fixed the economy while breaking the land speed record, and then done a Thornton Melon Triple Lindy into the end zone before calmly handing the ball to the ref like he's been there before.

Love this reference. Back to School- great little movie!

HollywoodSteel
10-17-2013, 11:23 AM
Love this reference. Back to School- great little movie!

I figured it would spark a fun memory for some of you 80's kids (like me) out there!

Craic
10-17-2013, 06:22 PM
Im looking at opportunity if he cant get on the field its hard for me to say he's the better of the two. The logic is completely flawed, because as I pointed out with dwyer its much easier its to have better yards per totals in limited opportunities because you only have to be successful once or twice to drastically effect your averages. When you come in the game in the nfl in a limited capacity defenses are not keying on you, a lot times you get an easy draw or dump off on a third and long.

So last year, when he was announced the starter, and still had a better rushing average . . .

Texasteel
10-18-2013, 07:56 AM
I was and still am a Bell fan. Pushed him before the draft, and was happy we got him, ( although it did surprise me a little that they passed on Lacy to take him ), but it is hard for me to proclaim either back is better than the other right now. I think Bell will be the better back, and will have a better future with the Steelers. For either of them to be effective there is a lot of work to be done on the blocking, and perhaps even the play calling. Like I have said before, I like Dwyer and I like Bell both, but think the Bell will be the better back, just give him a little more time.

I also think that the Steelers are looking to completely revamp the RB position, probably will be looking at another young RB at the end of this year............ If they don't end up rebuilding the already rebuilt OL.

Steeldude
10-18-2013, 07:57 AM
So last year, when he was announced the starter, and still had a better rushing average . . .

Steeldawg will come up with another excuse to protect Bell and bash Dwyer.

NJarhead
10-18-2013, 08:19 AM
Steeldawg will come up with another excuse to protect Bell and bash Dwyer.

Wasn't Dwyer cut? Why do you think that is?

steeldawg
10-18-2013, 09:39 AM
Wasn't Dwyer cut? Why do you think that is?

Ya I don't need to bash him, his career tells the story. I also don't need to make excuses for bell he has only played 2 games. I think the fact he was cut is very telling of how good he is, also the fact that even with bell out he still was riding pine.

NJarhead
10-18-2013, 09:48 AM
Ya I don't need to bash him, his career tells the story. I also don't need to make excuses for bell he has only played 2 games. I think the fact he was cut is very telling of how good he is, also the fact that even with bell out he still was riding pine.


Shhhhh. :chuckle:

Steeldude
10-18-2013, 12:53 PM
Wasn't Dwyer cut? Why do you think that is?

So was Harrison. Your point?

Count Steeler
10-18-2013, 12:58 PM
Wasn't Dwyer cut? Why do you think that is?

Cause this coaching staff doesn't know how to put together a running game.

I'm still scratching my head over the personnel selection on the OLine this year. Virtually only 1 player for depth, and now he is the LT. No depth at Center. Whimper is our depth in the interior. I guess Adams suits up as backup for the T this week.

NO back is going to have consistent success until the O Line is consistent.

Steeldude
10-18-2013, 01:00 PM
Ya I don't need to bash him, his career tells the story. I also don't need to make excuses for bell he has only played 2 games. I think the fact he was cut is very telling of how good he is, also the fact that even with bell out he still was riding pine.

Then that would mean you are stating that Dwyer is better than Mendenhall. Each excuse you come up with backfires on your previous excuse.

You still haven't explained how you know for a fact that a player will be better than another before they play a single down.

Dwinsgames
10-18-2013, 01:24 PM
cut , released , permitted to sign elsewhere at the end of the day it means the team has moved on , by that logic of Dwyer being cut means he was better than Mendenhall whom they let go elsewhere an better than anyone they cut prior , and better than Redman whom was inactive a few weeks back ( but hmmmm Redman was kept when Dwyer was cut how does that make sense ) ......

I guess that would also mean by using that same logic that Chad Scott was better than Rod Woodson ..... NOT ....

this coaching staff I CLUELESS about how to make a running game work and they are also clueless about putting together an offensive line , if you doubt look at their results of attempting to do either

the only reason Dwyer was cut is Tomlin dislikes him and I get the distinct feeling Tomlin would cut off his own nose to spite his face too ( Tomlin also disliked Max Starks too an we witnessed how that played out )

NJarhead
10-18-2013, 01:28 PM
So was Harrison. Your point?

Harrison was cut because he didn't get it. That's common knowledge.

You know what my point is. There aren't very many Harrison stories going around, are there? Nooooooo. You don't have to be a rocket scientist to run the football. Hence why RB is the quickest transition from college to pro. Dwyer wasn't doing shit and has rarely done shit.

- - - Updated - - -


Cause this coaching staff doesn't know how to put together a running game.

I'm still scratching my head over the personnel selection on the OLine this year. Virtually only 1 player for depth, and now he is the LT. No depth at Center. Whimper is our depth in the interior. I guess Adams suits up as backup for the T this week.

NO back is going to have consistent success until the O Line is consistent.

I agree. But of our entire stable of RB's, Dwyer was seen (by those actually in the know) as the most expendable.

- - - Updated - - -


cut , released , permitted to sign elsewhere at the end of the day it means the team has moved on , by that logic of Dwyer being cut means he was better than Mendenhall whom they let go elsewhere an better than anyone they cut prior , and better than Redman whom was inactive a few weeks back ( but hmmmm Redman was kept when Dwyer was cut how does that make sense ) ......

I guess that would also mean by using that same logic that Chad Scott was better than Rod Woodson ..... NOT ....

this coaching staff I CLUELESS about how to make a running game work and they are also clueless about putting together an offensive line , if you doubt look at their results of attempting to do either

the only reason Dwyer was cut is Tomlin dislikes him and I get the distinct feeling Tomlin would cut off his own nose to spite his face too ( Tomlin also disliked Max Starks too an we witnessed how that played out )

That logic is yours and yes it is flawed.

steeldawg
10-18-2013, 02:49 PM
cut , released , permitted to sign elsewhere at the end of the day it means the team has moved on , by that logic of Dwyer being cut means he was better than Mendenhall whom they let go elsewhere an better than anyone they cut prior , and better than Redman whom was inactive a few weeks back ( but hmmmm Redman was kept when Dwyer was cut how does that make sense ) ......

I guess that would also mean by using that same logic that Chad Scott was better than Rod Woodson ..... NOT ....

this coaching staff I CLUELESS about how to make a running game work and they are also clueless about putting together an offensive line , if you doubt look at their results of attempting to do either

the only reason Dwyer was cut is Tomlin dislikes him and I get the distinct feeling Tomlin would cut off his own nose to spite his face too ( Tomlin also disliked Max Starks too an we witnessed how that played out )

Do you really believe that the reason dwyer was cut is because tomlin doesn't like him? Mendenhall situation was totally different he was a free agent who was banged up, and lets not even compare dwyer to mendy, mendy's career didn't turn out to be a great one but it dwarfs dwyers career. We are talking about a guy who after 4 years averages a little more than 8 carries, a little more than 30 yards per game, 2 tds total, and still has not broken 1000 yards for his career. There is something wrong here and I seriously doubt its because coach desnt like him. Hell tomlin drafted dwyer, If they wanted to cut him earlier they could have.

Craic
10-18-2013, 03:13 PM
Do you really believe that the reason dwyer was cut is because tomlin doesn't like him? Mendenhall situation was totally different he was a free agent who was banged up, and lets not even compare dwyer to mendy, mendy's career didn't turn out to be a great one but it dwarfs dwyers career. We are talking about a guy who after 4 years averages a little more than 8 carries, a little more than 30 yards per game, 2 tds total, and still has not broken 1000 yards for his career. There is something wrong here and I seriously doubt its because coach desnt like him. Hell tomlin drafted dwyer, If they wanted to cut him earlier they could have.

Mendenhall wasn't "banged up" at the end of last season. He was benched. His head was not in the right place. Mendy was the CHOSEN starter for all of Dwyer's years but the last one, when he was competing with Redman. Is the talent level the same between Mendy and Dwyer? Nope. Absolutely not. But that's not the point of any argument I have with you, or what it seems most people have with you in this thread (or any other thread). To put it simply, you seem to have anointed Bell the next Franco Harris or Jerome Bettis or John Kuhn, and everyone else here is saying to slow down, and let the kid actually PROVE himself. 2.8 yards per rush average is NOT proving yourself.

What you seem to be missing, is that Dwyer was the odd man out in RBs that have a similar style. They went with Redman because they thought Redman was better in short yardage situations. Oops. I guarantee you that if LSH was healthy, he would be our starting running back right now and we simply wouldn't be having this discussion, because he has more talent than anyone else at the position.

So, how about it . . . willing to take a "wait and see" approach with the rest of us? Or are you going to anoint him now after two games? And should I remind you, they aren't NEAR as good as the two games.

Oh, and just for comparison:

Dwyer, first two games of his career:

9 attempts, 28 yards, 3.11 Y/A
11 attempts 107 yards, 9.73 Y/A

Bell
16 attempts, 57 yards, 3.56 Y/A
16 attempts, 34 yards, 2.13 Y/A
And almost a third of Dwyer's games coming into this year that he started, he's rushed for 100 yards or more.

So let's wait until we see a solid body of work from Bell before making ANY decisions about him, rather than deciding before he ever sets foot on the field that he's a talented NFL player, and the declaring him the best RB on the team two games into his career.

steeldawg
10-18-2013, 03:30 PM
Mendenhall wasn't "banged up" at the end of last season. He was benched. His head was not in the right place. Mendy was the CHOSEN starter for all of Dwyer's years but the last one, when he was competing with Redman. Is the talent level the same between Mendy and Dwyer? Nope. Absolutely not. But that's not the point of any argument I have with you, or what it seems most people have with you in this thread (or any other thread). To put it simply, you seem to have anointed Bell the next Franco Harris or Jerome Bettis or John Kuhn, and everyone else here is saying to slow down, and let the kid actually PROVE himself. 2.8 yards per rush average is NOT proving yourself.

What you seem to be missing, is that Dwyer was the odd man out in RBs that have a similar style. They went with Redman because they thought Redman was better in short yardage situations. Oops. I guarantee you that if LSH was healthy, he would be our starting running back right now and we simply wouldn't be having this discussion, because he has more talent than anyone else at the position.

So, how about it . . . willing to take a "wait and see" approach with the rest of us? Or are you going to anoint him now after two games? And should I remind you, they aren't NEAR as good as the two games.

Oh, and just for comparison:

Dwyer, first two games of his career:

9 attempts, 28 yards, 3.11 Y/A
11 attempts 107 yards, 9.73 Y/A

Bell
16 attempts, 57 yards, 3.56 Y/A
16 attempts, 34 yards, 2.13 Y/A
And almost a third of Dwyer's games coming into this year that he started, he's rushed for 100 yards or more.

So let's wait until we see a solid body of work from Bell before making ANY decisions about him, rather than deciding before he ever sets foot on the field that he's a talented NFL player, and the declaring him the best RB on the team two games into his career.

LSH would not be the starting running back are you high? He wasn't even starting over redman when bell was out. So there goes that theory. What did I anoint him? The best back on the team? Is that really a stretch with a stable of Bell, jones and Dwyer? Name me one team if given the choice that would take dwyer over bell or any of our backs, even after only 2 games? Im giving him the benefit of the doubt here, holding up his yards per carry total after 2 games and saying hes not proving himself is absurd.

Dwinsgames
10-18-2013, 05:52 PM
LSH would not be the starting running back are you high? He wasn't even starting over redman when bell was out. So there goes that theory. What did I anoint him? The best back on the team? Is that really a stretch with a stable of Bell, jones and Dwyer? Name me one team if given the choice that would take dwyer over bell or any of our backs, even after only 2 games? Im giving him the benefit of the doubt here, holding up his yards per carry total after 2 games and saying hes not proving himself is absurd.


what is more absurd is knowing his YPC totals after 2 games and actin as if you just witnessed the second coming of Walter Peyton

steeldawg
10-18-2013, 05:55 PM
what is more absurd is knowing his YPC totals after 2 games and actin as if you just witnessed the second coming of Walter Peyton

Did I do that?

Craic
10-18-2013, 07:47 PM
LSH would not be the starting running back are you high? He wasn't even starting over redman when bell was out. So there goes that theory. What did I anoint him? The best back on the team? Is that really a stretch with a stable of Bell, jones and Dwyer? Name me one team if given the choice that would take dwyer over bell or any of our backs, even after only 2 games? Im giving him the benefit of the doubt here, holding up his yards per carry total after 2 games and saying hes not proving himself is absurd.

Ahh, yes, I see what you did there. Let me point it out to the rest of the readers: "and saying hes not proving himself is absurd."

ing verb = participle = continual action.

From a previous post:
He is the best back on the team talent

is = to be verb = something that is present and absolute.

You went from saying that he IS the best back on the team to now saying he is PROVING HIMSELF as the best back. Or, in other words, you agree with me in that post that it is premature to declare him (your earlier statement being a declarative statement) the best back. Glad we finally came to an agreement. And yes, I too think, as I've said a few times, that he has the ability to do some good things. I don't however, think he's far and away proving himself as the best back. He's showing promise, but he's not there yet.

Craic
10-18-2013, 08:52 PM
Did I do that?

Don't know if you meant it this way or not... but I can't help reading your post with this voice in my head: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ClnSMCdw6E8

Steeldude
10-19-2013, 12:19 AM
Ahh, yes, I see what you did there. Let me point it out to the rest of the readers: "and saying hes not proving himself is absurd."

ing verb = participle = continual action.

From a previous post:

is = to be verb = something that is present and absolute.

You went from saying that he IS the best back on the team to now saying he is PROVING HIMSELF as the best back. Or, in other words, you agree with me in that post that it is premature to declare him (your earlier statement being a declarative statement) the best back. Glad we finally came to an agreement. And yes, I too think, as I've said a few times, that he has the ability to do some good things. I don't however, think he's far and away proving himself as the best back. He's showing promise, but he's not there yet.

It's the classic Steeldawg flip-flop.

I don't know how many people on this MB have tried to explain this to him.

Mistah Q
10-22-2013, 01:55 PM
Cutting Dwyer was a mistake, but Tomlin is a child.

I believe Bell to be the best back on this team but time will reveal the truth. We'll see.

If Bell turns out to be even an average starting back, then Bell, Dwyer, F. Jones, and Howling is a pretty good stable of running backs. Not the league's best, but good enough that we can go focus on something else for a few years. Like the O-line... Terrell Davis was never close to being the league's best running back, but they had a solid O-line and the coaching knew what they were doing, with the personnel they had.

I still have faith that Haley can do similar things for us - but if we finish 5-11 or worse, I'm afraid he'll be made the scapegoat and fired instead. Our conditioning, line coaching, and talent evaluation are atrocious...

But somehow it clicked just a little bit during the Ravens game. It's not a lot to brag about: the Ravens have a lot of issues in the trenches, but it's better than nothing. Bell has to have been at least partially competent to achieve what he did, but the O-line helped make it happen. Was it because Bell is that good? Or because the O-line is finally "gelling"? Or because they were playing a very terrible Ravens team? Or because Haley has his shit together?

Let's watch the rest of the season and find out.

NJarhead
10-22-2013, 02:02 PM
It's the classic Steeldawg flip-flop.

I don't know how many people on this MB have tried to explain this to him.

Let me guess, that's neither insulting or childish, right?

"You people" are pathetic.

Craic
10-22-2013, 02:51 PM
Cutting Dwyer was a mistake, but Tomlin is a child.

I believe Bell to be the best back on this team but time will reveal the truth. We'll see.

If Bell turns out to be even an average starting back, then Bell, Dwyer, F. Jones, and Howling is a pretty good stable of running backs. Not the league's best, but good enough that we can go focus on something else for a few years. Like the O-line... Terrell Davis was never close to being the league's best running back, but they had a solid O-line and the coaching knew what they were doing, with the personnel they had.

I still have faith that Haley can do similar things for us - but if we finish 5-11 or worse, I'm afraid he'll be made the scapegoat and fired instead. Our conditioning, line coaching, and talent evaluation are atrocious...

But somehow it clicked just a little bit during the Ravens game. It's not a lot to brag about: the Ravens have a lot of issues in the trenches, but it's better than nothing. Bell has to have been at least partially competent to achieve what he did, but the O-line helped make it happen. Was it because Bell is that good? Or because the O-line is finally "gelling"? Or because they were playing a very terrible Ravens team? Or because Haley has his shit together?

Let's watch the rest of the season and find out.

This probably the most balanced post I've read in quite some time. Very nice.

One place I'll disagree though. In the second game of the season, I saw a couple things started to click . . . or were you talking about the running game in particular clicking?

steeldawg
10-22-2013, 04:34 PM
I don't think dwyer will be here next season, he is a free agent and currently the third back on the roster I doubt we offer him a contract.

Count Steeler
10-22-2013, 06:13 PM
I don't think dwyer will be here next season, he is a free agent and currently the third back on the roster I doubt we offer him a contract.

Probably not. LSH may fill the roster spot, or pickup another mid round RB prospect that has a stronger work ethic than Dwyer.

HollywoodSteel
10-22-2013, 06:32 PM
Let me guess, that's neither insulting or childish, right?

"You people" are pathetic.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x1iV24hL8Rk

:)

Steeldude
10-23-2013, 01:37 AM
Let me guess, that's neither insulting or childish, right?

"You people" are pathetic.

I see you are still crying over being humiliated over your childish posts.

Don't get mad at me because Steeldawg flips his stories and has difficulty with the terms opinion, fact and potential. It's not like I called him a hater or a bitter MFer...lol. I leave that to people like you.

Did the O-line open holes for the RBs against the Ravens? Yes or no? Will you run to hide behind more insults and cop-outs? It's common for you people to do that.

steeldawg
10-23-2013, 05:42 AM
I see you are still crying over being humiliated over your childish posts.

Don't get mad at me because Steeldawg flips his stories and has difficulty with the terms opinion, fact and potential. It's not like I called him a hater or a bitter MFer...lol. I leave that to people like you.

Did the O-line open holes for the RBs against the Ravens? Yes or no? Will you run to hide behind more insults and cop-outs? It's common for you people to do that.

Where has my story flip flopped, It seems you and whoever else have been arguing with me about the same things for awhile now and my position hasn't changed. Wallace still like him, Bell still think hes the best back on the team, Dwyer still think he sucks, should not and will not be a consistent starter. When you run out argument you result to "your flip flopping" anyone can see my position on le'veon bell and anyone can see I have been behind him from day 1.

- - - Updated - - -


I see you are still crying over being humiliated over your childish posts.

Don't get mad at me because Steeldawg flips his stories and has difficulty with the terms opinion, fact and potential. It's not like I called him a hater or a bitter MFer...lol. I leave that to people like you.

Did the O-line open holes for the RBs against the Ravens? Yes or no? Will you run to hide behind more insults and cop-outs? It's common for you people to do that.

As far your O-line question It has been answered now by 2 different posters why does he need to type it out for you a third time? If you really want answers to your questions all you have to do is read but it seems like you just want to provoke and instigate.

NJarhead
10-23-2013, 06:33 AM
I see you are still crying over being humiliated over your childish posts.

Don't get mad at me because Steeldawg flips his stories and has difficulty with the terms opinion, fact and potential. It's not like I called him a hater or a bitter MFer...lol. I leave that to people like you.

Did the O-line open holes for the RBs against the Ravens? Yes or no? Will you run to hide behind more insults and cop-outs? It's common for you people to do that.

"Humiliated?????" :rofl2:

I must have missed that! Now, when did this happen?


"Meh, people like you, meh." Children like you always seem to assume they've won their hard fought debate when the adult they're debating with decides it's like talking to a wall. And ya know what? That's fine. You're really not that significant to me for it to matter.

Now:

DID YOU READ THE ARTICLE??? YES OR NO?? Tell us what it was about. Was it about the o-line? Yes or no? You read the head-line and MAYBE my comments and then started typing on your lil' 'puter. I stand by my comment about what you are.


I'm sorry that you hated the draft pick, but we got Bell and most of the football world involving the Pittsburgh Steelers are happy with him. Learn to deal with it.

Steeldude
10-23-2013, 11:29 AM
"Humiliated?????" :rofl2:

I must have missed that! Now, when did this happen?


"Meh, people like you, meh." Children like you always seem to assume they've won their hard fought debate when the adult they're debating with decides it's like talking to a wall. And ya know what? That's fine. You're really not that significant to me for it to matter.

Now:

DID YOU READ THE ARTICLE??? YES OR NO?? Tell us what it was about. Was it about the o-line? Yes or no? You read the head-line and MAYBE my comments and then started typing on your lil' 'puter. I stand by my comment about what you are.


I'm sorry that you hated the draft pick, but we got Bell and most of the football world involving the Pittsburgh Steelers are happy with him. Learn to deal with it.

There wasn't much of a debate on your part. You posted some insults(as usual) and then ran. It's typical for you people.

I am fine with the pick. Although I thought the 2nd round could have been spent elsewhere.

Did the O-line open holes? Yes or no? You keep running.

In the future try to accept that people are going to have different opinions than your own. There is no reason to lash out because of it.

NJarhead
10-23-2013, 11:35 AM
There wasn't much of a debate on your part. You posted some insults(as usual) and then ran. It's typical for you people.

I am fine with the pick. Although I thought the 2nd round could have been spent elsewhere.

Did the O-line open holes? Yes or no? You keep running.

In the future try to accept that people are going to have different opinions than your own. There is no reason to lash out because of it.


I don't run. Especially from "people like you." Know that.

Did the o-line open holes? Eventually yes, hence where my comment on Bell's patience applies. Can you understand that? I expect you Bell skeptics and o-line apologists to fade as the season progresses.

Again, let me clarify one thing for you, no one here is going to "run from you." No one. Now, using your logic, should I conclude that since you haven't answered MY questions, that you are the one who is "running away humiliated?"

I'll wait.

Steeldude
10-23-2013, 12:10 PM
I don't run. Especially from "people like you." Know that.

Did the o-line open holes? Eventually yes, hence where my comment on Bell's patience applies. Can you understand that? I expect you Bell skeptics and o-line apologists to fade as the season progresses.

Again, let me clarify one thing for you, no one here is going to "run from you." No one. Now, using your logic, should I conclude that since you haven't answered MY questions, that you are the one who is "running away humiliated?"

I'll wait.

Is this the letting go part you spoke of? Lol.

You finally stopped running. Holes to run through are holes to run through. The Jets game contained very few. Hence the reason the running game struggled. .

Bell skeptic? That is the same thing people said about Kordell. You judge players on a game. I would rather use a season to formulate a reasonable opinion of Bell. No one has said Bell is a flop. People are saying they want to see more out of Bell before they pass a judgment. Bell's patience would be useless if there were no holes ala Jets' game. I didn't deny that Bell showed patience. Bell showed some nifty moves, but he hasn't proven he is a better than average NFL RB just yet.

I realize you are probably like Steeldawg who says Bell does not need to play a single down to prove himself, but remember, most people aren't like that.

Have you asked any questions about the football topic?

NJarhead
10-23-2013, 12:16 PM
Is this the letting go part you spoke of? Lol.

You finally stopped running. Holes to run through are holes to run through. The Jets game contained very few. Hence the reason the running game struggled. .

Bell skeptic? That is the same thing people said about Kordell. You judge players on a game. I would rather use a season to formulate a reasonable opinion of Bell. No one has said Bell is a flop. People are saying they want to see more out of Bell before they pass a judgment. Bell's patience would be useless if there were no holes ala Jets' game. I didn't deny that Bell showed patience. Bell showed some nifty moves, but he hasn't proven he is a better than average NFL RB just yet.

I realize you are probably like Steeldawg who says Bell does not need to play a single down to prove himself, but remember, most people aren't like that.

Have you asked any questions about the football topic?

Do you have reading comprehension issues to go along with your hypocritical views? Never mind, I couldn't care less.

You can go back and see what I asked, but yes.

I also want you to point out where I said or claimed or eluded that "Bell is the greatest" and/or that "Bell does not need to play a single down to prove himself."

You idiots like to put words in peoples mouths but refuse to comprehend the points that are being made.

"Stupidity should be as painful for the stupid person as it is for the rest of us." - me

Texasteel
10-23-2013, 12:32 PM
Come on guys. Please back up a little, think about what you want to say about the subject, and do so without phrases like " people like you, the likes of you, and you idiots. We need to debate the subject, and not the members. I would take it as a personal favor, and a favor to all members that have different opinions.

NJarhead
10-23-2013, 12:36 PM
Come on guys. Please back up a little, think about what you want to say about the subject, and do so without phrases like " people like you, the likes of you, and you idiots. We need to debate the subject, and not the members. I would take it as a personal favor, and a favor to all members that have different opinions.

I'll give it one more chance, and if I find myself replying in such a manor as you would not condone, I'll stop and block him from my view.

I apologize for my part and leave it at that.

:drink:

Steeldude
10-23-2013, 01:44 PM
Do you have reading comprehension issues to go along with your hypocritical views? Never mind, I couldn't care less.

You can go back and see what I asked, but yes.

I also want you to point out where I said or claimed or eluded that "Bell is the greatest" and/or that "Bell does not need to play a single down to prove himself."

You idiots like to put words in peoples mouths but refuse to comprehend the points that are being made.

"Stupidity should be as painful for the stupid person as it is for the rest of us." - me

See how you can't control your anger? Thank you for once again proving me to be correct.

Of course you are eluding to Bell being great based off a game. It's why you became so angry with me. Why aren't you calling Bell an idiot or bitter MFer for giving himself a C-? Look, you became upset because I don't anoint Bell as a good RB based on a few games.

Maybe now, after giving you a taste of your own medicine, you will watch your behavior. I am referring to your hypocrisy about putting words in other people's mouths. Care to review prior comments?

NJarhead
10-23-2013, 02:03 PM
Actually, I'm going to do two things:

1). Bite my tongue.
2). block you from view.

Have a nice day.

- - - Updated - - -

<5 seconds later>


Holy crap! What did you guys change? This place looks awesome all of a sudden. All the stupid....it's gone!




:ranger:

Texasteel
10-23-2013, 02:58 PM
See how you can't control your anger? Thank you for once again proving me to be correct.

Of course you are eluding to Bell being great based off a game. It's why you became so angry with me. Why aren't you calling Bell an idiot or bitter MFer for giving himself a C-? Look, you became upset because I don't anoint Bell as a good RB based on a few games.

Maybe now, after giving you a taste of your own medicine, you will watch your behavior. I am referring to your hypocrisy about putting words in other people's mouths. Care to review prior comments?


Going to ask one more time. Please disuse the threads topic, and not the poster. The treads here are interesting enough, there is plenty to talk about.