Few Positives right now, but Le'Veon Bell looks like the Real Deal

[katmandu]

Very few positives right now, but Le'Veon Bell certainly looks like the real deal.

Pretty impressive showing for his first game IMHO.

Also, the receiving corp looks half decent...... Vince Williams ended up with 5 tackles as well......Woodley had a sack and a forced fumble....

[blackngldblood]

Indeed! He could help open up this offense a lot! Now, how does the defense start to get off the field without yielding points? Damned if you do, damned if you don't....

[vader29]

Bell was definitely a positive today, also with the Rats and Bungles losing today we are still only 2 games back with lots of football left to play.

[blackngldblood]

Bell was definitely a positive today, also with the Rats and Bungles losing today we are still only 2 games back with lots of football left to play.

Your optimism on this dark day wins you the internet, my friend!

[Texasteel]

I thought Bell showed well today. I was starting to think the he would be better of if they just pulled the line off the field so there would be fewer people in his way. They sure weren't blocking for him.

[katmandu]

They sure weren't blocking for him.That sure speaks volumes for him IMHO ! Just imagine what this kid is capable of IF (and when) he gets a competent OL in front of him!

[NCSteeler]

The band wagon is officially empty. This forum would normally be completely blowing up right now, but it's very quiet. Not even a ton of butt clown trolls looking to poke fun. That's about the only positive.

[Count Steeler]

Bell had an impressive first game. Let's see if he can keep it up for 5-6 games in a row, then I will be more optimistic.

[blackngldblood]

The band wagon is officially empty. This forum would normally be completely blowing up right now, but it's very quiet. Not even a ton of butt clown trolls looking to poke fun. That's about the only positive.

Thank God! One positive that will come from this season is the loss of the bandwagon fans. Go bug the damned Seahawks, would ya?

[Shoes]

Bell looked good....seemed to play like a vet. Hope he stays healthy.

[ALLD]

First, we need real plays like throwing to the RB out of the backfield and handoff to the RB to the outside. Next, we need a defined short passing game with the TE and WRs to keep the D on their heels instead of simply bum rushing Ben every play.

[katmandu]

Another big positive is the super glue in Heath's knee appears to be holding up as well !

[blackngldblood]

Another big positive is the super glue in Heath's knee appears to be holding up as well !

And the fact that he can take helmet to helmet hits and not be phased!

[katmandu]

And the fact that he can take helmet to helmet hits and not be phased!Heath has always been a tough SOB!

[Texasteel]

First, we need real plays like throwing to the RB out of the backfield and handoff to the RB to the outside. Next, we need a defined short passing game with the TE and WRs to keep the D on their heels instead of simply bum rushing Ben every play.

We did throw to Bell out of the backfield, it worked, we threw a screen to Bell as well, it worked. Ben threw to Miller several time, almost all of them worked. The problem is the Ben is dropping back counting, one thousand one, one thousand oh my God.

[86WARD]

Bell played well. But I'm not overly impressed yet. Probably cause the OLine is just so damn bad...

[ALLD]

When Ben was dropping back he hit on bomb, but was ineffective at best everywhere else. He holds onto the ball now for so long somebody could paint his portrait.

[X-Terminator]

Thank God! One positive that will come from this season is the loss of the bandwagon fans. Go bug the damned Seahawks, would ya?

Yep. Now we get to see who the real fans truly are.

[Dwinsgames]

Yep. Now we get to see who the real fans truly are.


not my first rodeo with this team sucking , being a kid fan in the mid/late 60s was not so fun ... the 70s where heavenly , the 80s just good enough to keep you hooked even though a let down was right around the corner and you knew it ....

the 90s got far better and here we are now slumping back into 60s territory .....

oh well they say everything must go full circle ...guess the Browns will get good sometime soon too LOL

[blackngldblood]

not my first rodeo with this team sucking , being a kid fan in the mid/late 60s was not so fun ... the 70s where heavenly , the 80s just good enough to keep you hooked even though a let down was right around the corner and you knew it ....

the 90s got far better and here we are now slumping back into 60s territory .....

oh well they say everything must go full circle ...guess the Browns will get good sometime soon too LOL

Tied for first in the division, the Browns are! lolololololololol! Never thought I would see the day!

[siss]

I will go down with this ship!

The little rookie hasn't helped us win a game...yet...until then he's apart of the problem!

[blackngldblood]

I will go down with this ship!

The little rookie hasn't helped us win a game...yet...until then he's apart of the problem!

Hell, I'm a cook for a living. Going down with ships is in my job description, lol!

[fansince'76]

Yep. Now we get to see who the real fans truly are.

Still here. The Steelers are the ONLY reason I still follow this league. Especially after the Cryhawks won a game on a bullshit call due to the new "safety rules."

[salamander]

Bell was definitely a bright spot today.

[katmandu]

The little rookie hasn't helped us win a game...yet...until then he's apart of the problem!Well, just think for a moment how bad this game would have been if it were NOT for the little rookie's performance !

[steeldawg]

I will go down with this ship!

The little rookie hasn't helped us win a game...yet...until then he's apart of the problem!

He actually looked like part of the solution today. He did a nice job of making guys miss and setting up blocks. Pass protection was good and he showed good hands catching the ball out of the backfield.

[steelerdude15]

I was pretty impressed with Bell today. He made good cuts behind the line of scrimmage to extend the play and gain positive yards, pass blocked well for Ben and didn't let defenders get in the pocket, etc. He also has good speed and good vision for a rookie. I noticed a couple of mistakes that were made in which he could have extended the play, but didn't because of his vision, but he was pretty good overall in that category. I think that he's going to be a good running back for this team. I'm not completely sold on him since it was his first start, but I definitely think he could be a great back for us. Just to think, some were calling him a injury prone bust after he got hurt in the preseason...

[siss]

He actually looked like part of the solution today. He did a nice job of making guys miss and setting up blocks. Pass protection was good and he showed good hands catching the ball out of the backfield.

He needs to win a game and than we can talk!

And not saying he wasn't a bright spot...but we are 0-4...there aren't many bright spots!

[steeldawg]

He needs to win a game and than we can talk!

And not saying he wasn't a bright spot...but we are 0-4...there aren't many bright spots!

How is one guy supposed to win a game, He cant block for himself or play defense? All he can do is his job and he did well today.

[Texasteel]

I was pretty impressed with Bell today. He made good cuts behind the line of scrimmage to extend the play and gain positive yards, pass blocked well for Ben and didn't let defenders get in the pocket, etc. He also has good speed and good vision for a rookie. I noticed a couple of mistakes that were made in which he could have extended the play, but didn't because of his vision, but he was pretty good overall in that category. I think that he's going to be a good running back for this team. I'm not completely sold on him since it was his first start, but I definitely think he could be a great back for us. Just to think, some were calling him a injury prone bust after he got hurt in the preseason...

Lets be honest bud, he made good cuts behind the line of scrimmage to keep from getting killed.

[steeldawg]

Lets be honest bud, he made good cuts behind the line of scrimmage to keep from getting killed.

but that's what its going to take to run behind this line

[zulater]

I will go down with this ship!

The little rookie hasn't helped us win a game...yet...until then he's apart of the problem!

He helped put us in a position to have a chance to win this game. But we turned the ball over twice and that was the difference in the end. And our little rookie had nothing to do with either turnover. So yeah he was a plus. And he looks like he has decent hands as well.

I don't know if anything short of an excorist can help this team win a game at this point. But the kid sure wasn't part of the problem today Siss. Our guy Ben and Mike Adams however...

[Steeldude]

Very few positives right now, but Le'Veon Bell certainly looks like the real deal.

Pretty impressive showing for his first game IMHO.

Also, the receiving corp looks half decent...... Vince Williams ended up with 5 tackles as well......Woodley had a sack and a forced fumble....

Huh? He looked like an average RB. When he is given a hole he gets yards. It was the same with Dwyer and Redman. When he didn't get a hole he went nowhere. It all starts with the O-line. The O-line so many said was fixed during the off-season...lol.

[Texasteel]

Huh? He looked like an average RB. When he is given a hole he gets yards. It was the same with Dwyer and Redman. When he didn't get a hole he went nowhere. It all starts with the O-line. The O-line so many said was fixed during the off-season...lol.

Didn't see any holes myself, but I may have miss something, I did see him make yardage when there was no hole. Bell may in fact turn out to be average, it's still to early to tell, but today, IMO, he looked better than anything we have seen in a Steelers uniform for a while.

[bayz101]

We did throw to Bell out of the backfield, it worked, we threw a screen to Bell as well, it worked. Ben threw to Miller several time, almost all of them worked. The problem is the Ben is dropping back counting, one thousand one, one thousand oh my God.

That last line made me laugh my ass off. :lol:

[Steeldude]

Didn't see any holes myself, but I may have miss something, I did see him make yardage when there was no hole. Bell may in fact turn out to be average, it's still to early to tell, but today, IMO, he looked better than anything we have seen in a Steelers uniform for a while.

I saw the same from Dwyer. As of now, he hasn't shown me anything to suggest he will be anything more than average. For example, he bounced the run outside for a big play. I have seen the same from Dwyer and many other RBs. As you said, it's way too early.

On a different note, did you see the lowering of the head after 3 yards? They still don't call it. They will when a game is on the line. It's the dumbest rule to date.

[Texasteel]

I saw the same from Dwyer. As of now, he hasn't shown me anything to suggest he will be anything more than average. For example, he bounced the run outside for a big play. I have seen the same from Dwyer and many other RBs. As you said, it's way too early.

On a different note, did you see the lowering of the head after 3 yards? They still don't call it. They will when a game is on the line. It's the dumbest rule to date.

No I didn't bud. I had to leave the game for a few minutes and must have missed it. Doesn't surprise me though that they didn't call it. May never call it again, like you said, it's a dumb call, and a dumb rule.

[steeldawg]

Huh? He looked like an average RB. When he is given a hole he gets yards. It was the same with Dwyer and Redman. When he didn't get a hole he went nowhere. It all starts with the O-line. The O-line so many said was fixed during the off-season...lol.

That's not true I saw a few runs where he made a guy miss in the backfield. If you didn't see a difference in the way he was running compared to dwyer and redman then you are trying not to notice. This was his first game, in london, coming off injury, behind a bad o-line and he ended with 84 total yards 4 catches and 2tds, that is not an average day for a running back especially a rookie, and considering dwyer has 2 career tds in 4 years its not anything we have seen from him.

[zulater]

Bell is most definitely an upgrade over Dwyer, Redman, Felix Jones, or any other back we might have. You could see he has better vision and more wiggle. There were several plays where it looked as if he made yards our other backs haven't been finding. It was a good first game for him. My only complaint was his flipping into the end zone and the coaching staff not admonishing him for it. While he's flipping he only has one hand on the ball, if that ball comes out it's a touchback and the Vikings ball.

[stillers4me]

Bell is most definitely an upgrade over Dwyer, Redman, Felix Jones, or any other back we might have. You could see he has better vision and more wiggle. There were several plays where it looked as if he made yards our other backs haven't been finding. It was a good first game for him. My only complaint was his flipping into the end zone and the coaching staff not admonishing him for it. While he's flipping he only has one hand on the ball, if that ball comes out it's a touchback and the Vikings ball.

You're right on all points, Zu. But I'm willing to forgive the kid this time. It's his first TD, in his first game and he waited along time for it. And we don't actually know that he wasn't talked to about it. Chances are, someone said something.

[NJarhead]

Bell played well. But I'm not overly impressed yet. Probably cause the OLine is just so damn bad...

In particular, seventy-six, seventy-SUCKS!

I don't recall Gilbert being that bad over on the left, but perhaps I'm mistaken. At this point, I think we could put a cardboard cut out of Wayne Gandy over there it would probably afford Ben an additional 2 seconds from what he's getting now.

[Steeldude]

Bell is most definitely an upgrade over Dwyer, Redman, Felix Jones, or any other back we might have. You could see he has better vision and more wiggle. There were several plays where it looked as if he made yards our other backs haven't been finding. It was a good first game for him. My only complaint was his flipping into the end zone and the coaching staff not admonishing him for it. While he's flipping he only has one hand on the ball, if that ball comes out it's a touchback and the Vikings ball.

After one game I don't see anything to say he is better or worse. I will let the season play out

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That's not true I saw a few runs where he made a guy miss in the backfield. If you didn't see a difference in the way he was running compared to dwyer and redman then you are trying not to notice. This was his first game, in london, coming off injury, behind a bad o-line and he ended with 84 total yards 4 catches and 2tds, that is not an average day for a running back especially a rookie, and considering dwyer has 2 career tds in 4 years its not anything we have seen from him.

I have seen that from average RBs too. It's the same bad O-line the other Steeler RBs run behind.

How can the O-line be bad to you? They are all NFL talents according to your logic.

[zulater]

After one game I don't see anything to say he is better or worse. I will let the season play out

Yea I get that one game doesn't make or break a player. But it's all we got to go on right now, and he passed the first test convincingly.

We got a lot to worry about with this team. But if Bell stays healthy running back wont be one of them from what I can see.

[siss]

He helped put us in a position to have a chance to win this game. But we turned the ball over twice and that was the difference in the end. And our little rookie had nothing to do with either turnover. So yeah he was a plus. And he looks like he has decent hands as well.

I don't know if anything short of an excorist can help this team win a game at this point. But the kid sure wasn't part of the problem today Siss. Our guy Ben and Mike Adams however...

Im going to say it again: until this team wins a game, he is not apart of anything, solution or otherwise.

Not saying he can't or won't or he is a waist of space, just that until the team wins, he's just a guy who can run.

[Dwinsgames]

I have a hard time saying 3.6 YPC is a bright spot ... but suit yourselves

[zulater]

I have a hard time saying 3.6 YPC is a bright spot ... but suit yourselves

Behind our blocking? Are you serious?

[NJarhead]

Yea, 3.6 isn't anything to rave about, however, it would have been lower if not for the ability Bell exhibited; the ability to cut behind the los (as someone mentioned earlier).

[zulater]

Im going to say it again: until this team wins a game, he is not apart of anything, solution or otherwise.

Not saying he can't or won't or he is a waist of space, just that until the team wins, he's just a guy who can run.

And so is Ben just a guy who can pass? ( and throw interceptions fumble and get sacked? :lol:)

Ben needs a back teams actually fear a little so play action comes back into the offense. Going forward I see Bell helping this situation out.

[Dwinsgames]

Behind our blocking? Are you serious?


same basic line as last year ... polished turds if you will ....

Dwyer ran for a higher YPC rate a season ago and with 15 carries this year is at 3.2 .... 3.6 is not much better and worse than what we had last year and if that was not good enough how is 3.6 now good enough or worthy of a bright spot mention ??


2 TDs is noteworthy but nothing spectacular about it ....

I seen NOTHING that I have not seen from Dwyer

that is not to say he is not or will not be better in the long run ( pardon the pun ) but as of right now to call his play a bright spot .... that is a light in the fog I am unable to see from what we have seen of him to this point

[zulater]

By the way 3.6 x 3 = 10.8. First down! And besides Jerome Bettis had 4 full seasons as a Steeler where his ypc were 3.6 or less.

Now I'm not going there and comparing Bell to the bus, but 3.6 yards per carry relative to situation isn't necessarily a bad thing for a back. There was one play where I thought Bell cut to the outside ( for no gain) where it looked like the play was designed for the middle where there looked to be at least a few yards to be had. Outside of that play I thought he got or exceeded what he was given on every other touch.

[Dwinsgames]

all I am saying is we did not draft a RB in the second round to deliver 3.6 YPC and supplant the guy who was a 5th round pick who averaged 4.0 YPC the season before .....

if expectations around here are that 3.6 is a bright spot why the hell was so many down and ragging on Dwyer at 4.0 ?

[zulater]

all I am saying is we did not draft a RB in the second round to deliver 3.6 YPC and supplant the guy who was a 5th round pick who averaged 4.0 YPC the season before .....

if expectations around here are that 3.6 is a bright spot why the hell was so many down and ragging on Dwyer at 4.0 ?

Last years line isn't this years's line. When Dwyer was racking up those yards Colon, and Pouncey were clearing holes. Also Foster and Adams were at their more natural position's of right guard and tackle. And oh yeah we had some guy named Max over at left tackle.

Not even close to the same line, so to expect the same or better results?

[siss]

And so is Ben just a guy who can pass? ( and throw interceptions fumble and get sacked? :lol:)

Ben needs a back teams actually fear a little so play action comes back into the offense. Going forward I see Bell helping this situation out.
U mmmmm Ben is not a rookie...I'd like to strangle him, but he is the franchise super bowl winning QB, but is still ours.
Heath is still HEEEAAAATTTTHHHH and Troy is still Troy (I need a turn over Troy).

I would like Mike Adams head on a platter though...anyone miss Max Starks?

My point is, Im not ready to declare this kid the second coming until we win a game or 3. He looks good. He might be great. But we haven't won a game yet.

[Steeldude]

Yea I get that one game doesn't make or break a player. But it's all we got to go on right now, and he passed the first test convincingly.

We got a lot to worry about with this team. But if Bell stays healthy running back wont be one of them from what I can see.

The least of my worries is RB. I agree he did more positive than negative.

IMO, the Steelers will go into next season with the same poor O-line while adding some untalented castoffs to provide depth.

[zulater]

U mmmmm Ben is not a rookie...I'd like to strangle him, but he is the franchise super bowl winning QB, but is still ours.
Heath is still HEEEAAAATTTTHHHH and Troy is still Troy (I need a turn over Troy).

I would like Mike Adams head on a platter though...anyone miss Max Starks?

My point is, Im not ready to declare this kid the second coming until we win a game or 3. He looks good. He might be great. But we haven't won a game yet.

Ok I get all that. Now go back and read the thread title and explain where it was stated that Bell is the 2nd coming?

Saying he was a bright spot and that he looks like he could be the real deal doesn't seem any sort of declaration of greatness to me? :noidea:

[zulater]

The least of my worries is RB. I agree he did more positive than negative.

IMO, the Steelers will go into next season with the same poor O-line while adding some untalented castoffs to provide depth.

The thing is if you know what you're doing you can make a line out of untalented castoff's. Look at Seattle yesterday, 3 starting o-linemen missed the game yet they somehow managed not to embarrasses themselves.

The point being ( which you're well aware of) it's as much about who's picking the talent and coaching the talent as the talent itself. The point was made about Beachum earlier, why isn't he playing when he's grading out higher on film than the other tackles? Because the other guys are 2nd round draft picks and Beachum was a 7th rounder. They want to prove themselves right in their draft evaluation rather than field the best possible football team.

[NJarhead]

The thing is if you know what you're doing you can make a line out of untalented castoff's. Look at Seattle yesterday, 3 starting o-linemen missed the game yet they somehow managed not to embarrasses themselves.

The point being ( which you're well aware of) it's as much about who's picking the talent and coaching the talent as the talent itself. The point was made about Beachum earlier, why isn't he playing when he's grading out higher on film than the other tackles? Because the other guys are 2nd round draft picks and Beachum was a 7th rounder. They want to prove themselves right in their draft evaluation rather than field the best possible football team.

We did pretty good with a cast-off at center this year. I think he deserves to stay after this season.

[Dwinsgames]

Last years line isn't this years's line. When Dwyer was racking up those yards Colon, and Pouncey were clearing holes. Also Foster and Adams were at their more natural position's of right guard and tackle. And oh yeah we had some guy named Max over at left tackle.

Not even close to the same line, so to expect the same or better results?

our new Center graded out higher than Pouncey did last year so it is an upgrade IMO ....

most everyone here bitched about Max so trying to use him as a positive kind of skews the entire debate ( even though I liked him )

Adams natural spot is where he is LT ( but he plays better on the right side )

Colon was a walking talking penalty flag and hurt as much as he helped ( not to mention was injured more than half the time )

leaving Gilbert , Adams , Decastro and Foster whom all started at one point or another last year ..so yes in a way the same guys but I understand your point as well ....

3.6 ypc is NOT good enough for the style of football we are trying to produce ... if your QB slings it 51 times you should be averaging over 5 YPC with a guy off the street on crutches

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We did pretty good with a cast-off at center this year. I think he deserves to stay after this season.


he is an upgrade IMO ... Pounceys days should be numbered or moved to guard

[NJarhead]

our new Center graded out higher than Pouncey did last year so it is an upgrade IMO ....

most everyone here bitched about Max so trying to use him as a positive kind of skews the entire debate ( even though I liked him )

Adams natural spot is where he is LT ( but he plays better on the right side )

Colon was a walking talking penalty flag and hurt as much as he helped ( not to mention was injured more than half the time )

leaving Gilbert , Adams , Decastro and Foster whom all started at one point or another last year ..so yes in a way the same guys but I understand your point as well ....

3.6 ypc is NOT good enough for the style of football we are trying to produce ... if your QB slings it 51 times you should be averaging over 5 YPC with a guy off the street on crutches

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he is an upgrade IMO ... Pounceys days should be numbered or moved to guard

I think there should be competition for center. Pouncey moving to guard wouldn't be a bad option at all. Unless Velasco is better at guard. Ramon Foster is too slow to be a pulling guard. With his size, he "might" be able to compete for tackle. But I may just be getting silly.

[zulater]

our new Center graded out higher than Pouncey did last year so it is an upgrade IMO ....

most everyone here bitched about Max so trying to use him as a positive kind of skews the entire debate ( even though I liked him )

Adams natural spot is where he is LT ( but he plays better on the right side )

Colon was a walking talking penalty flag and hurt as much as he helped ( not to mention was injured more than half the time )

leaving Gilbert , Adams , Decastro and Foster whom all started at one point or another last year ..so yes in a way the same guys but I understand your point as well ....

3.6 ypc is NOT good enough for the style of football we are trying to produce ... if your QB slings it 51 times you should be averaging over 5 YPC with a guy off the street on crutches

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he is an upgrade IMO ... Pounceys days should be numbered or moved to guard

By the way the people who graded Pouncey as the 16th best center last year also had Heath Miller pretty low as a blocker relative to the league's other tight ends. So I'd take what they say with a grain of salt.

[Dwinsgames]

By the way the people who graded Pouncey as the 16th best center last year also had Heath Miller pretty low as a blocker relative to the league's other tight ends. So I'd take what they say with a grain of salt.


what hurt Millers blocking stats is often times he got isolated on the oppositions DE because Gilbert and or Adams took the wrong man by cutting inside to help the guard and left Miller 1 on 1 vs a DE whereas he should have been there in a support role not a primary role as the blocker ...

[zulater]

what hurt Millers blocking stats is often times he got isolated on the oppositions DE because Gilbert and or Adams took the wrong man by cutting inside to help the guard and left Miller 1 on 1 vs a DE whereas he should have been there in a support role not a primary role as the blocker ...

When the line hit's it's apex last season, Pouncey was playing as good as at any time in his career. Then the injury bug hit, they moved him to guard for a game, and the line never get back it's rhythm. And Pouncey's play suffered as those around him struggled.

But this shit that Pouncey is overrated or average is laughable. I suggest those who thinks so subscribe to NFL rewind and isolate on Pouncey's play games 2-8 last year. Then come back and talk.

[Steeldude]

The thing is if you know what you're doing you can make a line out of untalented castoff's. Look at Seattle yesterday, 3 starting o-linemen missed the game yet they somehow managed not to embarrasses themselves.

The point being ( which you're well aware of) it's as much about who's picking the talent and coaching the talent as the talent itself. The point was made about Beachum earlier, why isn't he playing when he's grading out higher on film than the other tackles? Because the other guys are 2nd round draft picks and Beachum was a 7th rounder. They want to prove themselves right in their draft evaluation rather than field the best possible football team.

Exactly. Seattle's team is coached far better than the Steelers.

[blackngldblood]

Exactly. Seattle's team is coached far better than the Steelers.

To think that the sleez bag Carrol and his staff are better off than Tomlin and co. makes me want to slit my wrists. If there is one coach in this league that I despise more than Jon Haurhaurhaur its that walking talking douchebag straight out of a cinemax skin flick. But I digress.........

[Texasteel]

Exactly. Seattle's team is coached far better than the Steelers.

Even I, the head homer, am not real happy with this staff.

[HollywoodSteel]

To think that the sleez bag Carrol and his staff are better off than Tomlin and co. makes me want to slit my wrists. If there is one coach in this league that I despise more than Jon Haurhaurhaur its that walking talking douchebag straight out of a cinemax skin flick. But I digress.........


Why is that? Just curious. He's done a pretty good job with Seattle since taking over.

[HollywoodSteel]

Exactly. Seattle's team is coached far better than the Steelers.

I second, third, and whatever your and Zu's opinion on this. Seattle is a great example of where you can see good coaching vs. (our) bad coaching. Another good example is Denver. Clady, who we would give Ben's first born to have, is out, which could have been a devastating loss, but the coaches (and Manning of course) don't just say stupid stuff like, "next man up," they actually deliver. Same in New England with their injuries. Their coach doesn't just throw out platitudes. He puts his team in position to win every week.

I think good coaching could turn this line around. They might even get better on their own as the season goes on, because God knows they can't get any worse. But having Tomlin and co. Just draft replacements isn't going to do it. Good coaches take 1st and 2nd round picks and actually make them better.

I know we aren't going to fire Tomlin after this season no matter how bad we do, and maybe that's for the best all things considered, but there is a decent chance we'll get rid of Haley and the O-line coach. I think we should actually take our high draft picks next year and concentrate on defense (an inside backer, corner, and safety) and let a better coach teach our O-line how to improve.

[Seven]

Bell ran well. But he needs to learn how to block.

[steeldawg]

Bell ran well. But he needs to learn how to block.

Block? He was good in pass protection

[Seven]

Block? He was good in pass protection

Then you weren't watching. I have no complaints about his play outside of his blocking, I think he played very well all things considered. But he was poor in that area. It's why Jonathan Dwyer was brought into the game late when we were trying to pass our way back. I expect Bell to improve in this area in coming weeks as he looks like a very accomplished player already. But it wasn't where it needed to be yesterday.

[steeldawg]

Then you weren't watching. I have no complaints about his play outside of his blocking, I think he played very well all things considered. But he was poor in that area. It's why Jonathan Dwyer was brought into the game late when we were trying to pass our way back. I expect Bell to improve in this area in coming weeks as he looks like a very accomplished player already. But it wasn't where it needed to be yesterday.


No way bell was in there on both of the last two drives and he was in most of the game I cant think of one instance where he missed a block or blitz pick up.

[fansince'76]

Even I, the head homer, am not real happy with this staff.

Same here. I've been one of Tomlin's biggest defenders, but I can't defend 0-4 for the first time since I was in diapers. Even the Mark Malone/Walter Abercrombie-led teams of the miserable mid-1980s didn't start 0-4.

[blackngldblood]

Why is that? Just curious. He's done a pretty good job with Seattle since taking over.

It goes back to his days at USC. I've never been a fan of his. He pretty much put the screws to USC and bolted. Just don't like the guy.

[zulater]

Then you weren't watching. I have no complaints about his play outside of his blocking, I think he played very well all things considered. But he was poor in that area. It's why Jonathan Dwyer was brought into the game late when we were trying to pass our way back. I expect Bell to improve in this area in coming weeks as he looks like a very accomplished player already. But it wasn't where it needed to be yesterday.

Dwyer was brought in to keep Bell's reps from getting too high. You don't want a guy coming in off an injury and playing every snap. They did the same thing with Heath Miller the week before. I didn't notice Bell's blocking one way or the other and doubt that had anything to do with his temporary removal from the game.

[Seven]

Dwyer was brought in to keep Bell's reps from getting too high. You don't want a guy coming in off an injury and playing every snap. They did the same thing with Heath Miller the week before. I didn't notice Bell's blocking one way or the other and doubt that had anything to do with his temporary removal from the game.

It was extremely noticeable that Bell was removed from passing downs in the second half. Certainly they weren't going to leave the kid in there all game either way, but I have no doubt his lack of protection played a role in that. He was poor all game. Not that it mattered much, since Mike Adams was single handedly handing Ben over on a silver platter. But if we're expecting Bell to be more than a ball carrier he has to improve his blocking. He seemed to be in position to step up and handle the defender but then he'd just crumble. I'm sure the team is addressing it this week and based on what I saw from Bell as far as physical tools go this past week I don't expect he'll have much issue improving as he gains experience. But he was poor in that area Sunday. If you won't take my word for it and are interested enough to do so, I urge you to fast forward to some of the passing plays Bell was in the backfield for. If you can keep your eyes off of the flurry of activity that occurred in front of Mike Adams immediately off every snap, I'm confident you'd agree with me.

[steeldawg]

It was extremely noticeable that Bell was removed from passing downs in the second half. Certainly they weren't going to leave the kid in there all game either way, but I have no doubt his lack of protection played a role in that. He was poor all game. Not that it mattered much, since Mike Adams was single handedly handing Ben over on a silver platter. But if we're expecting Bell to be more than a ball carrier he has to improve his blocking. He seemed to be in position to step up and handle the defender but then he'd just crumble. I'm sure the team is addressing it this week and based on what I saw from Bell as far as physical tools go this past week I don't expect he'll have much issue improving as he gains experience. But he was poor in that area Sunday. If you won't take my word for it and are interested enough to do so, I urge you to fast forward to some of the passing plays Bell was in the backfield for. If you can keep your eyes off of the flurry of activity that occurred in front of Mike Adams immediately off every snap, I'm confident you'd agree with me.

Cant't be, bell played 60 of the 79 snaps and we threw the ball 51 times. Dwyer and jones were put in to simply give him a breather, and bell was good in pass protection.

[Texasteel]

I, like some of the other guys, didn't really notice Bells pass protection, but then it was difficult to see who's man actually got to Ben, to many to count. I didn't notice either that Bell was pulled on passing downs either. I know he caught at least one throw out of the backfield, and a screen that worked very well for us. I think the first successful screen we have thrown all year. I also know Bell came out of school with a reputation of being a good blocker, and pass catcher, but that doesn't mean a lot right now. I'll have to try to go back and take a look at what your talking about. If you have any examples that would be helpful to me. Thanks Seven.

[katmandu]

and bell was good in pass protection.He was good when he didn't whiff or miss read his assignments.

[steeldawg]

He was good when he didn't whiff or miss read his assignments.

Which was when?

[Craic]

Which was when?

(Might as well assess all three elements - running, blocking, and passblocking).

7:18 first quarter. He was lead blocker on end around. Whiffed badly on blocking the safety. So bad in fact that he was on the ground and the safety wasn't even touched.
6:29 Not so bad, let the outside rusher get the inside line on him and push through.
5:52 missed a massive hole to his left on a cutback. Instead, barreled straight forward for no gain. (LBs waiting for him on either side, but the cutback would've put him a yard or two downfield.
9:43 second quarter. Comes out and turns around five yards upfield for a short drop off pass. Ben's under pressure and roles right. Bell just stands there, then starts to waddle in that direction. Literally, waddle.
8:19 If bell was supposed to chip on that play coming out of the backfield, it was the most poorly executed chip I've seen in a long time. And yes, he came towards the DL with his shoulder down as the guy was engaged with a tackle. didn't even contact the guy.
3:41 Third quarter. Bell come up on an inside block in pass protection. Hits the first guy coming through and the guy barely even stuttersteps, just run right past him without much change of direction. Second guy coming through Bell tries to hit, and Bell gets knocked back a yard or so.
4:57 fourth quarter. Picking the guy up coming off the edge. Contact once, Bell gets pushed back. Luckily, Gilbert picked him up or Ben would have been on his back.
1:33 Again comes inside for a block, is pushed backwards after first contact and pressure put on Ben.
15 seconds left. He's hit twice, both times he gets worked by two different players. First time, he's the second man in on a block and is STILL pushed back about a yard, yard and ahalf. Second one he doesn't have the best angle, so it's not totally his fault. The second goes in and I can't tell if he forces the fumble that ends our chances, or if he's just another purple shirt in the pile.

The funny thing is, he only had a handful of blocking assignments the entire game, and he was about 50/50 on them, most of the time losing ground. I'd say he had a total of 6-8 blocking assignments. the rest of the time, he was out in the flat. Here's something I found that I DON'T like about him. When he's get out into the flat and waiting to see if the ball is thrown to him, it's like he's on a Sunday stroll. There's no effort, no speed. He turns it on when the ball is thrown to him, or given to him, but I want to see that kind of effort when he is NOT the target of the play.

So, Steel, you kept asking for when. You got your answer.

[steeldawg]

(Might as well assess all three elements - running, blocking, and passblocking).

7:18 first quarter. He was lead blocker on end around. Whiffed badly on blocking the safety. So bad in fact that he was on the ground and the safety wasn't even touched.
6:29 Not so bad, let the outside rusher get the inside line on him and push through.
5:52 missed a massive hole to his left on a cutback. Instead, barreled straight forward for no gain. (LBs waiting for him on either side, but the cutback would've put him a yard or two downfield.
9:43 second quarter. Comes out and turns around five yards upfield for a short drop off pass. Ben's under pressure and roles right. Bell just stands there, then starts to waddle in that direction. Literally, waddle.
8:19 If bell was supposed to chip on that play coming out of the backfield, it was the most poorly executed chip I've seen in a long time. And yes, he came towards the DL with his shoulder down as the guy was engaged with a tackle. didn't even contact the guy.
3:41 Third quarter. Bell come up on an inside block in pass protection. Hits the first guy coming through and the guy barely even stuttersteps, just run right past him without much change of direction. Second guy coming through Bell tries to hit, and Bell gets knocked back a yard or so.
4:57 fourth quarter. Picking the guy up coming off the edge. Contact once, Bell gets pushed back. Luckily, Gilbert picked him up or Ben would have been on his back.
1:33 Again comes inside for a block, is pushed backwards after first contact and pressure put on Ben.
15 seconds left. He's hit twice, both times he gets worked by two different players. First time, he's the second man in on a block and is STILL pushed back about a yard, yard and ahalf. Second one he doesn't have the best angle, so it's not totally his fault. The second goes in and I can't tell if he forces the fumble that ends our chances, or if he's just another purple shirt in the pile.

The funny thing is, he only had a handful of blocking assignments the entire game, and he was about 50/50 on them, most of the time losing ground. I'd say he had a total of 6-8 blocking assignments. the rest of the time, he was out in the flat. Here's something I found that I DON'T like about him. When he's get out into the flat and waiting to see if the ball is thrown to him, it's like he's on a Sunday stroll. There's no effort, no speed. He turns it on when the ball is thrown to him, or given to him, but I want to see that kind of effort when he is NOT the target of the play.

So, Steel, you kept asking for when. You got your answer.

I asked when he whiffed and missed his assignments in pass protection. Nothing you posted shows any missed assignments or whiffs in pass protection. He was in for 60 of our 79 snaps so he got pushed back a yard on one or two blitz pick ups, my god for people to label his performance in pass protection as poor is ridiculous. One of the plays dwyer got so much credit for last week he not only got knocked back but nearly got knocked out by a blitzing linebacker. If he wasn't doing his job in pass protection he would not of been on the field for most of the game especially in crunch time with the game on the line. As far as flat routes go, you cant sprint full speed out into the flats on that route almost always you are the check down so if you sprinted full speed by the time the qb progressed to your route you would either be out of bounds or standing completely still.

[Craic]

I asked when he whiffed and missed his assignments in pass protection. Nothing you posted shows any missed assignments or whiffs in pass protection. He was in for 60 of our 79 snaps so he got pushed back a yard on one or two blitz pick ups, my god for people to label his performance in pass protection as poor is ridiculous. One of the plays dwyer got so much credit for last week he not only got knocked back but nearly got knocked out by a blitzing linebacker. If he wasn't doing his job in pass protection he would not of been on the field for most of the game especially in crunch time with the game on the line. As far as flat routes go, you cant sprint full speed out into the flats on that route almost always you are the check down so if you sprinted full speed by the time the qb progressed to your route you would either be out of bounds or standing completely still.


(Might as well assess all three elements - running, blocking, and passblocking).

7:18 first quarter. He was lead blocker on end around. Whiffed badly on blocking the safety. So bad in fact that he was on the ground and the safety wasn't even touched.
6:29 Not so bad, let the outside rusher get the inside line on him and push through.
5:52 missed a massive hole to his left on a cutback. Instead, barreled straight forward for no gain. (LBs waiting for him on either side, but the cutback would've put him a yard or two downfield.
9:43 second quarter. Comes out and turns around five yards upfield for a short drop off pass. Ben's under pressure and roles right. Bell just stands there, then starts to waddle in that direction. Literally, waddle.
8:19 If bell was supposed to chip on that play coming out of the backfield, it was the most poorly executed chip I've seen in a long time. And yes, he came towards the DL with his shoulder down as the guy was engaged with a tackle. didn't even contact the guy. WHIFF
3:41 Third quarter. Bell come up on an inside block in pass protection. Hits the first guy coming through and the guy barely even stuttersteps, just run right past him without much change of direction. Basically a WHIFF Second guy coming through Bell tries to hit, and Bell gets knocked back a yard or so.
4:57 fourth quarter. Picking the guy up coming off the edge. Contact once, Bell gets pushed back. Luckily, Gilbert picked him up or Ben would have been on his back.
1:33 Again comes inside for a block, is pushed backwards after first contact and pressure put on Ben.
15 seconds left. He's hit twice, both times he gets worked by two different players. First time, he's the second man in on a block and is STILL pushed back about a yard, yard and ahalf. Second one he doesn't have the best angle, so it's not totally his fault. The second goes in and I can't tell if he forces the fumble that ends our chances, or if he's just another purple shirt in the pile.

The funny thing is, he only had a handful of blocking assignments the entire game, and he was about 50/50 on them, most of the time losing ground. I'd say he had a total of 6-8 blocking assignments. the rest of the time, he was out in the flat. Here's something I found that I DON'T like about him. When he's get out into the flat and waiting to see if the ball is thrown to him, it's like he's on a Sunday stroll. There's no effort, no speed. He turns it on when the ball is thrown to him, or given to him, but I want to see that kind of effort when he is NOT the target of the play.

So, Steel, you kept asking for when. You got your answer.

He basically had two whiffs, and only a few flocking assignments.

The fact that he keeps getting pushed around is exactly the problem. He's a mediocre pass protector at best right now. On the positive side, he seemed willing to put his body where it needed to be. Hopefully some time in the weight room and work on form will help him.

He did also have a couple nice cut blocks. All in all, however, right now, I am not ​confident with him as a pass blocker. Oh.. and for only having 6-8 blocking assignments, to be pushed back almost EVERY TIME is something to be concerned about, no? I counted six above, and two more times in teh same plays he got pushed back.

So, you tell me. Either whiffing, or getting manhandled on what was essentially ally but two or three plays means he's what . . . not a poor pass protector? IMO, it's all about form and strength, and those are the things he will learn while playing in the NFL (we can only hope).

[Dwinsgames]

(Might as well assess all three elements - running, blocking, and passblocking).

7:18 first quarter. He was lead blocker on end around. Whiffed badly on blocking the safety. So bad in fact that he was on the ground and the safety wasn't even touched.
6:29 Not so bad, let the outside rusher get the inside line on him and push through.
5:52 missed a massive hole to his left on a cutback. Instead, barreled straight forward for no gain. (LBs waiting for him on either side, but the cutback would've put him a yard or two downfield.
9:43 second quarter. Comes out and turns around five yards upfield for a short drop off pass. Ben's under pressure and roles right. Bell just stands there, then starts to waddle in that direction. Literally, waddle.
8:19 If bell was supposed to chip on that play coming out of the backfield, it was the most poorly executed chip I've seen in a long time. And yes, he came towards the DL with his shoulder down as the guy was engaged with a tackle. didn't even contact the guy.
3:41 Third quarter. Bell come up on an inside block in pass protection. Hits the first guy coming through and the guy barely even stuttersteps, just run right past him without much change of direction. Second guy coming through Bell tries to hit, and Bell gets knocked back a yard or so.
4:57 fourth quarter. Picking the guy up coming off the edge. Contact once, Bell gets pushed back. Luckily, Gilbert picked him up or Ben would have been on his back.
1:33 Again comes inside for a block, is pushed backwards after first contact and pressure put on Ben.
15 seconds left. He's hit twice, both times he gets worked by two different players. First time, he's the second man in on a block and is STILL pushed back about a yard, yard and ahalf. Second one he doesn't have the best angle, so it's not totally his fault. The second goes in and I can't tell if he forces the fumble that ends our chances, or if he's just another purple shirt in the pile.

The funny thing is, he only had a handful of blocking assignments the entire game, and he was about 50/50 on them, most of the time losing ground. I'd say he had a total of 6-8 blocking assignments. the rest of the time, he was out in the flat. Here's something I found that I DON'T like about him. When he's get out into the flat and waiting to see if the ball is thrown to him, it's like he's on a Sunday stroll. There's no effort, no speed. He turns it on when the ball is thrown to him, or given to him, but I want to see that kind of effort when he is NOT the target of the play.

So, Steel, you kept asking for when. You got your answer.

solid explanation , I deleted the game so could not go back and watch the excepts , I have made the conscience decision this year to NOT put myself though unneeded torture by watching embarrassing losses multiple times and instead watch some extra college games in its place ...

I do recall pretty much what you have posted ...

On the bright side as mentioned he is a willing blocker , he at this point in time is not a great blocker , that will improve in time ... he will put in the work to improve I have faith in that ..as I said many times I like Bell liked the pick ( was not in love with the pick because I thought it was a round to soon for him ) ...

[Texasteel]

solid explanation , I deleted the game so could not go back and watch the excepts , I have made the conscience decision this year to NOT put myself though unneeded torture by watching embarrassing losses multiple times and instead watch some extra college games in its place ...

I do recall pretty much what you have posted ...

On the bright side as mentioned he is a willing blocker , he at this point in time is not a great blocker , that will improve in time ... he will put in the work to improve I have faith in that ..as I said many times I like Bell liked the pick ( was not in love with the pick because I thought it was a round to soon for him ) ...

I agree with you bud. Bell was a good blocker in school, but this isn't school any more, now the classes really begin. The fact that he was thought of as a good blocker in collage, and looks to be willing to put in the work, tells me that he will get better and end up being a good blocking back. Really this was he first game, he will learn.

[zulater]

Bell missed most of the preseason and wasn't able to practice much through the first 3 weeks. And what practice time he's got lately was mostly dedicated to hitting the right hole, taking the handoff etc...I doubt he spent a great deal of time blocking these last few weeks. I think it's just a matter of needing some playing time to get a feel for things. It moves pretty fast out there, especially for a rookie, so he probably just needs some more reps to figure out what he's doing. If you're out there thinking you probably wont execute that great. As it comes more natural I predict his blocking wont be an issue.

[Shoes]

I think this young man will do well. Like TX said this was really his first game.

[steeldawg]

He basically had two whiffs, and only a few flocking assignments.

The fact that he keeps getting pushed around is exactly the problem. He's a mediocre pass protector at best right now. On the positive side, he seemed willing to put his body where it needed to be. Hopefully some time in the weight room and work on form will help him.

He did also have a couple nice cut blocks. All in all, however, right now, I am not ​confident with him as a pass blocker. Oh.. and for only having 6-8 blocking assignments, to be pushed back almost EVERY TIME is something to be concerned about, no? I counted six above, and two more times in teh same plays he got pushed back.

So, you tell me. Either whiffing, or getting manhandled on what was essentially ally but two or three plays means he's what . . . not a poor pass protector? IMO, it's all about form and strength, and those are the things he will learn while playing in the NFL (we can only hope).

Im not seeing him getting manhandled or whiffing the only one you could possibly attempt to call a whiff is the one where he blocks 2 guys and to me it looked like he couldn't decide which one to block but it didn't matter anyway because adams's man beat him and got the sack anyways.

- - - Updated - - -

http://www.steelers.com/video-and-audio/videos/Steelerscom_LiVE_1012013/0164631c-dc03-47f2-814c-d3d1538fd37d

you can see some of the blocks here I didn't see him get manhandled once

[Texasteel]

Bell missed most of the preseason and wasn't able to practice much through the first 3 weeks. And what practice time he's got lately was mostly dedicated to hitting the right hole, taking the handoff etc...I doubt he spent a great deal of time blocking these last few weeks. I think it's just a matter of needing some playing time to get a feel for things. It moves pretty fast out there, especially for a rookie, so he probably just needs some more reps to figure out what he's doing. If you're out there thinking you probably wont execute that great. As it comes more natural I predict his blocking wont be an issue.

Right you are, and remember, he is learning under trial by fire. He will make mistake, but I think he will learn from them and get better, and better. I'm encourage.

[Craic]

Im not seeing him getting manhandled or whiffing the only one you could possibly attempt to call a whiff is the one where he blocks 2 guys and to me it looked like he couldn't decide which one to block but it didn't matter anyway because adams's man beat him and got the sack anyways.

- - - Updated - - -

http://www.steelers.com/video-and-audio/videos/Steelerscom_LiVE_1012013/0164631c-dc03-47f2-814c-d3d1538fd37d

you can see some of the blocks here I didn't see him get manhandled once

Go find a way to see the game again and check out every place I listed (it's why I gave the clock time in each entry). He gets walked right on through, or pushed right back on virtually every play I listed above where he was blocking. As I said in my post, he had a nice cut block and a couple nice blocks, but that's it. Every other time, he's a speedbump at best (for now).

[siss]

I take it back! I love that little rookie!

[SteelerFanInStl]

This is the first game where I've really been encouraged by what I've seen from Bell. He had a great game, which gives me confidence for the future.

[ALLD]

He is good with a stutter step and picking holes that aren't even there. Definitely an upgrade at this time. Jones looks good too. Dwyer might be #3 who could be gone next season easily. I don't expect to see Redman or Howling after this season unless one of them is delivering a package to my home.

[Dwinsgames]

Today we witnessed the Bell I thought we drafted , NOW he is earning the right to start ... he did leave some yards on the field but he got most of what was there and at times a few more yards , he showed patience and vision ... it looked as if the game slowed down for him a bit , things are looking up

[SteelerFanInStl]

Today we witnessed the Bell I thought we drafted , NOW he is earning the right to start ... he did leave some yards on the field but he got most of what was there and at times a few more yards , he showed patience and vision ... it looked as if the game slowed down for him a bit , things are looking up

Exactly what I said in the game day thread. Patience and vision. That's what I saw from him today.

[cold-hard-steel]

He's young , he will adjust .

[stillers4me]

392072329330962432

[steeldawg]

He was abusing the ravens.

[Texasteel]

Today we witnessed the Bell I thought we drafted , NOW he is earning the right to start ... he did leave some yards on the field but he got most of what was there and at times a few more yards , he showed patience and vision ... it looked as if the game slowed down for him a bit , things are looking up


You and a few more pimped Bell hard in last years draft. He show just what we thought he had before he was drafted. Still want to see more games like this out of him. I think he's got even better games.

[Steeldude]

The O-line opened holes/reduced backfield penetration. As a result, yards were produced. Bell had a good game. He needs to build on it.

- - - Updated - - -


He was abusing the ravens.

O-line opened holes. Any holes last week?

[Texasteel]

The O-line opened holes/reduced backfield penetration. As a result, yards were produced. Bell had a good game. He needs to build on it.

- - - Updated - - -



O-line opened holes. Any holes last week?

That is why I was so mad about not getting todays game. I really wanted to watch the line and see how well, or bad, they did. How would you grade them?

[steeldawg]

That is why I was so mad about not getting todays game. I really wanted to watch the line and see how well, or bad, they did. How would you grade them?

They were good and you will see bell doing a great job being patient finding holes and and just running it down their throats.

[Dwinsgames]

You and a few more pimped Bell hard in last years draft. He show just what we thought he had before he was drafted. Still want to see more games like this out of him. I think he's got even better games.

I have been one of is biggest critics since he has joined the team as well , partly because I knew what I expected from him and he was not delivering .... Today he delivered what I expected from him all along and now I know I did not miss evaluate him ....Now he needs to build on that effort and show the world

[Texasteel]

They were good and you will see bell doing a great job being patient finding holes and and just running it down their throats.B


You know I've been watching Bell for years. One of the things I was always most impressed with was his field vision and intelligence.

[Dwinsgames]

That is why I was so mad about not getting todays game. I really wanted to watch the line and see how well, or bad, they did. How would you grade them?

Tackles C+

interior Line B+

[Texasteel]

I have been one of is biggest critics since he has joined the team as well , partly because I knew what I expected from him and he was not delivering .... Today he delivered what I expected from him all along and now I know I did not miss evaluate him ....Now he needs to build on that effort and show the world

Just because you like someone doesn't mean you can't or shouldn't be a critics of him. Today has revived a lot of the faith we had in him last year. Damn, I wish I could have seen this game.

[steeldawg]

B


You know I've been watching Bell for years. One of the things I was always most impressed with was his field vision and intelligence.

I give them a B+ mistakes were minimal and for the first time we ran the wildcat with bell and it was effective.

[Dwinsgames]

Just because you like someone doesn't mean you can't or shouldn't be a critics of him. Today has revived a lot of the faith we had in him last year. Damn, I wish I could have seen this game.

NFL rewind perhaps ?

[Iron Steeler]

He did good still haven't seperated himself fr lacy yet . Time well tell who the better pick was

[Steeldude]

That is why I was so mad about not getting todays game. I really wanted to watch the line and see how well, or bad, they did. How would you grade them?

It's hard to say. They have played so poorly that any positive makes them you look like an A. I would give them a B to a B- compared to other O-line's in the NFL. It helped that Ngata didn't play much due to an elbow injury. Again, I have been seen such poor play from the O-line that it's hard to gauge. I was happy to actually see holes. They also kept defenders out of the backfield, for the most part.

[steeldawg]

He did good still haven't seperated himself fr lacy yet . Time well tell who the better pick was

From Eddie lacy?

[Psycho Ward 86]

by far the best game by the o-line, both in run and pass blocking. roethlisberger actually looked like a pocket passer out there today. and regardless of how much improved the holes were, leveon bell trucked a tantalizing number of ravens today for a lot of yards after contact. Good boy!

[Randy06]

Very impressed, he can only get better. With a healthy o-line next year perhaps, we will see even better holes.

[Mistah Q]

I wanted Bell well before the draft... but thought he was a little bit of a reach in the second. But if he's your guy and you don't think he'll still be there in the third... I guess you do what you must. I wonder whether they tried to trade down a little.

He's going to do well for us especially if the line coaching gets its head in gear... but damn I thought last year we had the most ridiculous line injury luck I'd ever seen -- until this year hit. Maybe we can reevaluate our conditioning practices, and help Bell out a bit more...

[steeldawg]

I said it before and I will say it again bell was the steal of the draft.

[Steeldude]

Very impressed, he can only get better. With a healthy o-line next year perhaps, we will see even better holes.

You mean a new O-line. Health isn't really the problem. The team does not have a tackle on the roster that's worth a hill of beans. IMO, Beachum is not the answer. Adams needs to grow a pair. Gilbert is soft. Whimper is...well...Whimper. I hope they retain Velasco as C/G nest season.

[Dwinsgames]

You mean a new O-line. Health isn't really the problem. The team does not have a tackle on the roster that's worth a hill of beans. IMO, Beachum is not the answer. Adams needs to grow a pair. Gilbert is soft. Whimper is...well...Whimper. I hope they retain Velasco as C/G nest season.

pretty much this ....

although I think if they manipulate things a bit it may not take our entire daft to fix the O-Line ...

RT Adams ( we know he can play there ) RG Foster ( his best spot) C Velasco ( cheaper than Pouncey and plays as well ) LG DeCastro , Trade Pouncey and a second round pick to move into a top 10 pick for a legit LT and still have our Original first rounder to address another need let Gilbert and Beachum be your top reserve linemen ....

that would be my plan of action

[HollywoodSteel]

pretty much this ....

although I think if they manipulate things a bit it may not take our entire daft to fix the O-Line ...

RT Adams ( we know he can play there ) RG Foster ( his best spot) C Velasco ( cheaper than Pouncey and plays as well ) LG DeCastro , Trade Pouncey and a second round pick to move into a top 10 pick for a legit LT and still have our Original first rounder to address another need let Gilbert and Beachum be your top reserve linemen ....

that would be my plan of action

I thought Adams is a pretty decent RT as well which is why it surprised me that Whimper went in for Gilbert for the plays that he was out. Adams must really be in Tomlin's doghouse. Either that or Whimper has shown vast improvement in practice. Maybe Adams has truly lost his shit since he got stabbed. It's kind of a head scratcher.

[Dwinsgames]

I thought Adams is a pretty decent RT as well which is why it surprised me that Whimper went in for Gilbert for the plays that he was out. Adams must really be in Tomlin's doghouse. Either that or Whimper has shown vast improvement in practice. Maybe Adams has truly lost his shit since he got stabbed. It's kind of a head scratcher.


when you get in Mike Tomlins dog house the only way you get out is with a bus ticket , just ask Mendenhall , Starks , Dwyer ....

[HollywoodSteel]

I said it before and I will say it again bell was the steal of the draft.

I might go with Sharknado on that. 4th round and he'll probably be our starter next season.

[steeldawg]

I might go with Sharknado on that. 4th round and he'll probably be our starter next season.

I like Thomas hes a big hitter and will replace clark but I don't think he will be that instant impact player.

[Craic]

when you get in Mike Tomlins dog house the only way you get out is with a bus ticket , just ask Mendenhall , Starks , Dwyer ....

Yep. That's one of the problems I have with Tomlin. I like him as a coach, but I've noticed that too. I think he's ruined a few careers because he doesn't give them the opportunity to come back and prove themselves.

[Psycho Ward 86]

Yep. That's one of the problems I have with Tomlin. I like him as a coach, but I've noticed that too. I think he's ruined a few careers because he doesn't give them the opportunity to come back and prove themselves.

hardship reveals true character. lets see if the above mentioned players succeed elsewhere

[Craic]

hardship reveals true character. lets see if the above mentioned players succeed elsewhere
It doesn't always work like that. You can cause enough damage to a person's trust in their skills that they don't ever recover. It's not just about whether a player has or doesn't have the ability to play the game. It's whether they can get their head and their body aligned to do the right thing at the right time. Screw with someone's ability to trust their skills, and you completely blow that up.

Here's an example. Don't think of a Green Apple.

http://thetased.files.wordpress.com/2010/10/green_apple.jpg

Like I said, don't think about it!

https://joostvapor.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/green-apple.jpg

Next time you think of a

http://justvapeus.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/green_apple_bite.jpg you won't be able to post here again.

So, for the love of all that's Black and Gold, don't think about a

http://lh3.ggpht.com/-kGk2SOx_z5A/UD9-jMkDM3I/AAAAAAAAKTI/JuD7ijuqmOo/green-apple-325_thumb%25255B2%25255D.jpg?imgmax=800


How did you do?

I get benching a player for a week or so to get them to rethink things. But when you put someone in your doghouse because of something and keep them there, then give them ONE shot at getting out, what, exactly do you think they're going to be worried about not doing? That thing that got them in the doghouse. Fumbles? Check. Dropped passes? Check. It's exactly what I think's been going on with this team.

[NJarhead]

when you get in Mike Tomlins dog house the only way you get out is with a bus ticket , just ask Mendenhall , Starks , Dwyer ....


Yep. That's one of the problems I have with Tomlin. I like him as a coach, but I've noticed that too. I think he's ruined a few careers because he doesn't give them the opportunity to come back and prove themselves.


I can't agree with this thought process. No one, least of all Mike Tomlin, has given up on Adams. I can't entirely fault the Steelers for wanting to move on from Max Starks considering young additions and his age. And Dwyer is on the active roster.

Mendy? I think that came down to cost, but who knows. He did suffer from a bit of fumble-it is and no coach puts up with that (see Tom Coughlin).

[Psycho Ward 86]

It doesn't always work like that. You can cause enough damage to a person's trust in their skills that they don't ever recover. It's not just about whether a player has or doesn't have the ability to play the game. It's whether they can get their head and their body aligned to do the right thing at the right time. Screw with someone's ability to trust their skills, and you completely blow that up.

Here's an example. Don't think of a Green Apple.

http://thetased.files.wordpress.com/2010/10/green_apple.jpg

Like I said, don't think about it!

https://joostvapor.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/green-apple.jpg

Next time you think of a

http://justvapeus.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/green_apple_bite.jpg you won't be able to post here again.

So, for the love of all that's Black and Gold, don't think about a

http://lh3.ggpht.com/-kGk2SOx_z5A/UD9-jMkDM3I/AAAAAAAAKTI/JuD7ijuqmOo/green-apple-325_thumb%25255B2%25255D.jpg?imgmax=800


How did you do?

I get benching a player for a week or so to get them to rethink things. But when you put someone in your doghouse because of something and keep them there, then give them ONE shot at getting out, what, exactly do you think they're going to be worried about not doing? That thing that got them in the doghouse. Fumbles? Check. Dropped passes? Check. It's exactly what I think's been going on with this team.

good point. and now my head hurts

[Dwinsgames]

1.8 yards per carry today ..... not nearly good enough

[Mistah Q]

Honestly I doubt anyone short of Barry Sanders would have done a whole lot better... pitiful line play.

[Steeldude]

Hmmm...once again Bell failed to get yards. Now why is that?

[Shoes]

Hmmm...once again Bell failed to get yards. Now why is that?

Must be because the O-line is jelling. "Sometimes it doesn't look like it, but we are close" ~ Jack Bicknell

He's been to Mike Tomlin's school of BS. Say something one week and hope everyone forgets about in a few days.

[Dwinsgames]

I can't agree with this thought process. No one, least of all Mike Tomlin, has given up on Adams. I can't entirely fault the Steelers for wanting to move on from Max Starks considering young additions and his age. And Dwyer is on the active roster.

Mendy? I think that came down to cost, but who knows. He did suffer from a bit of fumble-it is and no coach puts up with that (see Tom Coughlin).

Max was put off the team in favor of J. Scott and even when it was clear J.Scott could not do the job Tomlin stuck with him ( like Adams ) then Finally was forced to let max back on the roster and he immediately took the starting job from everyone that was on the roster ( better players laughable ) ...

Mendy and costs ? might want check that out cause It is not true either ...( 1 year 2.5 million with cards ) the tender offer to Redman and Dwyer was 1.5 mill each and Howlings 1 year deal was 780k , if they wanted Mendy all they had to do was not sign Bell or Redman to the tender offers and not sign Howlings at all and Mendy is covered all but 120k (not that I waned to keep Mendy but thats the financial aspect of it)

[Steelman]

For all the "progress" made last week, the line got dominated yesterday. I can't really fault Bell for all of that. Hard to run, much less pass, when an offensive line gets completely pummeled like that.

[NJarhead]

Max was put off the team in favor of J. Scott and even when it was clear J.Scott could not do the job Tomlin stuck with him ( like Adams ) then Finally was forced to let max back on the roster and he immediately took the starting job from everyone that was on the roster ( better players laughable ) ...

Mendy and costs ? might want check that out cause It is not true either ...( 1 year 2.5 million with cards ) the tender offer to Redman and Dwyer was 1.5 mill each and Howlings 1 year deal was 780k , if they wanted Mendy all they had to do was not sign Bell or Redman to the tender offers and not sign Howlings at all and Mendy is covered all but 120k (not that I waned to keep Mendy but thats the financial aspect of it)

Again, they wanted to move on from Max due to his age. It happens. If there was a personal issue there, Tomlin would have been "forced" to bring in someone else. Instead, he brought back Max.

I wasn't solid on the reasons Mendy was let go, but I speculated cost and his ability to fumble at crucial times of the game.

- - - Updated - - -


Must be because the O-line is jelling.


HAHA!

[Psycho Ward 86]

Max was put off the team in favor of J. Scott and even when it was clear J.Scott could not do the job Tomlin stuck with him ( like Adams ) then Finally was forced to let max back on the roster and he immediately took the starting job from everyone that was on the roster ( better players laughable ) ...

Mendy and costs ? might want check that out cause It is not true either ...( 1 year 2.5 million with cards ) the tender offer to Redman and Dwyer was 1.5 mill each and Howlings 1 year deal was 780k , if they wanted Mendy all they had to do was not sign Bell or Redman to the tender offers and not sign Howlings at all and Mendy is covered all but 120k (not that I waned to keep Mendy but thats the financial aspect of it)

are you seriously suggesting any of these people could have run behind the scrub O-line from yesterday that was at one point, sans decastro, foster, and whimper? i would seriously like to see a list of people that you actually think would have had a decent game behind our line yesterday

[Dwinsgames]

are you seriously suggesting any of these people could have run behind the scrub O-line from yesterday that was at one point, sans decastro, foster, and whimper? i would seriously like to see a list of people that you actually think would have had a decent game behind our line yesterday

try reading what was said in context to the side conversation me and NJ where having .....


but to answer your question Dwyer ran for 3.0 YPC behind same line that Bell produced 1.8 so it is not beyond comprehension better results are possible than the 1.8

[Psycho Ward 86]

try reading what was said in context to the side conversation me and NJ where having

i saw. could i have an answer to my question?

[Dwinsgames]

look above

[Psycho Ward 86]

try reading what was said in context to the side conversation me and NJ where having .....


but to answer your question Dwyer ran for 3.0 YPC behind same line that Bell produced 1.8 so it is not beyond comprehension better results are possible than the 1.8

on 3 carries. thats like judging isaac redman when he's used as a situational back vs when he has been a starter.

Bell has good vision. Dwyer's vision is about as bad as willie parker's. are you suggesting dwyer should be playing more than bell?

[Dwinsgames]

on 3 carries. thats like judging isaac redman when he's used as a situational back vs when he has been a starter.

Bell has good vision. Dwyer's vision is about as bad as willie parker's. are you suggesting dwyer should be playing more than bell?


I am suggesting t use the personnel that is getting results until they no loner are getting result ... its called going with hot hand its also called coaching adjustments a foreign term Tomlin led teams

[Psycho Ward 86]

I am suggesting t use the personnel that is getting results until they no loner are getting result ... its called going with hot hand its also called coaching adjustments a foreign term Tomlin led teams

so thats a yes. why so ambiguous? it was a simple question. 3 yards a carry isnt "the hot hand." thats shit. just like how all of the backs have been running. there is no hot hand. There hasnt been one in years. And its not primarily their fault. Its the O-line, and its palpable. i dont think Bell should be benched in favor of dwyer after having 1 "meh," 2 shit games, and 1 good game. Especially when theres a logic to your argument. On the season, bell actually averages just barely more YPC than dwyer. Again, isaac redman-argument.

Please none of that "i never said this" routine. you clearly implied what i believe you are saying. No runningback aside from barry sanders can do anything behind an o-line when its playing this bad. not even a shady mccoy, peterson, or jamaal charles. All of them have stud O-lines. If youd like a review about that from a couple weeks ago, i would gladly present it. Look what the giants have done the past 2 weeks. 2 weeks ago, they were ranked around the bottom 5 in run defense. 2 weeks later, they've held adrian peterson to 13 carries for 28 yards and mccoy to 15 carries for 48 yards. how? because they dominated in the trenches with the perenially strength of their team: their defensive line. Thats what happens when some of the great O-lines fold, even if they have great running backs. What do you think happens when one of the worst lines in the league fold and have marginal talent/one new prospect at the runningback position? I think steeler nation has known that for a long time

[Dwinsgames]

so thats a yes. why so ambiguous? it was a simple question. 3 yards a carry isnt "the hot hand." thats shit. just like how all of the backs have been running. there is no hot hand. There hasnt been one in years. And its not primarily their fault. Its the O-line, and its palpable. i dont think Bell should be benched in favor of dwyer after having 1 "meh," 2 shit games, and 1 good game. Especially when theres a logic to your argument. On the season, bell actually averages just barely more YPC than dwyer. Again, isaac redman-argument.

Please none of that "i never said this" routine. you clearly implied what i believe you are saying. No runningback aside from barry sanders can do anything behind an o-line when its playing this bad. not even a shady mccoy, peterson, or jamaal charles. All of them have stud O-lines. If youd like a review about that from a couple weeks ago, i would gladly present it. Look what the giants have done the past 2 weeks. 2 weeks ago, they were ranked around the bottom 5 in run defense. 2 weeks later, they've held adrian peterson to 13 carries for 28 yards and mccoy to 15 carries for 48 yards. how? because they dominated in the trenches with the perenially strength of their team: their defensive line. Thats what happens when some of the great O-lines fold, even if they have great running backs. What do you think happens when one of the worst lines in the league fold and have marginal talent/one new prospect at the runningback position? I think steeler nation has known that for a long time

Einstein's definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results ..that Is what this team is doing now

[steeldawg]

Jeeze the guy still had 5 catches 51 total yards and a td, hardly a game you bench a rookie for. Im so tired of reading we should put in jonathan dwyer he is not even ahead of jones on the depth chart he is crap.

[Count Steeler]

Bottom line, no O Line, no running game. Don't care to argue who is better at the RB position, because if the O Line doesn't perform, it doesn't matter.

Bicknell, Wilson, Haley, and Tomlin: take a bow.

[HollywoodSteel]

Jeeze the guy still had 5 catches 51 total yards and a td, hardly a game you bench a rookie for. Im so tired of reading we should put in jonathan dwyer he is not even ahead of jones on the depth chart he is crap.

I don't disagree with you about Bell. Strategy pretty much goes out the window now so we might as well see what we've got in him.

The only quibble I have is that I don't think the depth chart means a whole lot. Jones and Dwyer are used differently.

[steeldawg]

I don't disagree with you about Bell. Strategy pretty much goes out the window now so we might as well see what we've got in him.

The only quibble I have is that I don't think the depth chart means a whole lot. Jones and Dwyer are used differently.

They are used differently but your not going to take out bell and start dwyer, it would be crazy because bell is a much more versatile back and he is your future back. Dwyer probably wont be back next year because he is a free agent, the season is a lost cause, the o-line is horrible just let the kid be. Bell is not the problem with the run game, its problems up front, to many defenders in the backfield and we are getting behind in every game which puts us in pass situations, Bell only had 13 carries yesterday and was probably on the field for 60-70 snaps.

[Count Steeler]

They are used differently but your not going to take out bell and start dwyer, it would be crazy because bell is a much more versatile back and he is your future back. Dwyer probably wont be back next year because he is a free agent, the season is a lost cause, the o-line is horrible just let the kid be. Bell is not the problem with the run game, its problems up front, to many defenders in the backfield and we are getting behind in every game which puts us in pass situations, Bell only had 13 carries yesterday and was probably on the field for 60-70 snaps.

I'd rather put in Dwyer and let the opposing defenses beat on him instead of Bell. Save Bell for when/if we have a semblance of a blocking unit.

[steeldawg]

I'd rather put in Dwyer and let the opposing defenses beat on him instead of Bell. Save Bell for when/if we have a semblance of a blocking unit.

You need bell to stay football ready, perfect his blitz pick ups, plus you don't want to chip away at a guy's confidence.

[Count Steeler]

You need bell to stay football ready, perfect his blitz pick ups, plus you don't want to chip away at a guy's confidence.

Good points, but don't want to see the kid get a torn ACL in December because he is learning.

I would even go so far to say sit Ben and play Bruce or Landry. Ben can take the extra time and heal up. Landry can get some game experience and we can see if he is worth keeping for the next 2-3 years.

[HollywoodSteel]

I'd rather put in Dwyer and let the opposing defenses beat on him instead of Bell. Save Bell for when/if we have a semblance of a blocking unit.


I agree with Steeldawg on this. I think it would be a mistake to bench him just out of fear of injury. The kid needs NFL reps or he'll just be a rookie again next year. Now that said, don't run him until the wheels come off. I'm all for spelling him with Dwyer to ease up on the wear and tear.

[steeldawg]

Good points, but don't want to see the kid get a torn ACL in December because he is learning.

Don't want to see it either but that can happen on any give play, only way to avoid it is to shut him down for the season and that I think would do him more harm than good. Bell, Jones, Wheaton are all bright spots, now is the perfect time to get these guys on the field and let them get their mistakes out of their system.

[Mistah Q]

Hell I'd rather finish the season off playing exclusively rookies and backups. See who has what going on for them, know exactly who to cut, and get ourselves a fancy draft pick.

[Count Steeler]

Hell I'd rather finish the season off playing exclusively rookies and backups. See who has what going on for them, know exactly who to cut, and get ourselves a fancy draft pick.

Yeah, but somehow Goodell would fine us.

[Psycho Ward 86]

Einstein's definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results ..that Is what this team is doing now

so your solution is to bench bell and start dwyer because you think having 3 carries for 9 yards amounts to "having the hot hand?" lol. so again, who exactly in the entire NFL do you think can run behind this o-line?

[Dwinsgames]

so your solution is to bench bell and start dwyer because you think having 3 carries for 9 yards amounts to "having the hot hand?" lol. so again, who exactly in the entire NFL do you think can run behind this o-line?

it is not a matter of mystically pulling someone out of the thin air to accomplish the near impossible , it is a matter of trying to get better even if by baby steps and then build on that ...

nobody said BENCH anyone , however If one guy is being more consistent than the other even in small samples then let him have more reps and see if the trend continues and build from it ...

[Psycho Ward 86]

nobody said BENCH anyone , however If one guy is being more consistent than the other even in small samples then let him have more reps and see if the trend continues and build from it ...

Your quotes on the previous page:
"Dwyer ran for 3.0 YPC behind same line that Bell produced 1.8 so it is not beyond comprehension better results are possible than the 1.8"

"I am suggesting to use the personnel that is getting results until they no longer are getting result ... its called going with hot hand its also called coaching adjustments a foreign term Tomlin led teams"

"Einstein's definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results ..that Is what this team is doing now"


and of course, all of these came after i said: Please none of that "i never said this" routine. you clearly implied what i believe you are saying.

i find your logic baffling. i have my opinions, you have yours, and thats cool but you arent making any sense. You have shown a great disdain for Isaac Redman, the very epitome of a back who has been extremely successful in small doses, but usually pretty bad when given the opportunity to be the main back. Yet you think dwyer can do better based off of him getting 3 carries for 9 yards? Huh?

If you want to get really technical, bell had a higher YPC in half the games where dwyer and bell both played. So in the manner you're currently evaluating these backs in, they're even. But how is that even comparable when dwyer has had 9 touches in that span for 30 yards and bell has had 77 touches for 290 yards in that same span of time (Plus he's been a 3 down back for us)?

[Seven]

I think Jonathan Dwyer is a really nice player. I think he's one of the best backups in the league --- a borderline starting caliber player. I'm glad he ended up beating out Redman for a spot on the roster when all was said and done. He's more accomplished at every aspect of the position than Redman was. But I think it's clear at this point that while Dwyer could evolve into a good starter, Bell might evolve into a great one. He has more pop, more stamina and the best patience I've seen in a tailback since LaDainian Tomlinson. He's still making mistakes in pass protection and while his patience is good, I think his vision and anticipation are still developing. Dwyer has him in blocking and vision in my opinion, but I don't think that will be the case by season's end. I don't see a scenario where I take the ball out of Bell's hands until we have a much bigger sample size. If they're at 100 carries each and Dwyer was significantly outperforming him, that's one thing. But I don't think this is a similar situation to last year where Dwyer was outperforming Redman and Mendenhall on similar attempts. This is a different situation in my opinion. I think giving Dwyer 5 - 10 carries a game and using him in critical passing downs is very good utilization of his talents. Bell looks like a legitimate workhorse to me. There are only a handful of those in today's NFL.

[Dwinsgames]

Your quotes on the previous page:
"Dwyer ran for 3.0 YPC behind same line that Bell produced 1.8 so it is not beyond comprehension better results are possible than the 1.8"

"I am suggesting to use the personnel that is getting results until they no longer are getting result ... its called going with hot hand its also called coaching adjustments a foreign term Tomlin led teams"

"Einstein's definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results ..that Is what this team is doing now"


and of course, all of these came after i said: Please none of that "i never said this" routine. you clearly implied what i believe you are saying.

i find your logic baffling. i have my opinions, you have yours, and thats cool but you arent making any sense. You have shown a great disdain for Isaac Redman, the very epitome of a back who has been extremely successful in small doses, but usually pretty bad when given the opportunity to be the main back. Yet you think dwyer can do better based off of him getting 3 carries for 9 yards? Huh?

If you want to get really technical, bell had a higher YPC in half the games where dwyer and bell both played. So in the manner you're currently evaluating these backs in, they're even. But how is that even comparable when dwyer has had 9 touches in that span for 30 yards and bell has had 77 touches for 290 yards in that same span of time (Plus he's been a 3 down back for us)?


it is not making any sense to you because you clearly do not understand what making adjustments means .... if 1 guy Is NOT performing and the other is performing better keep giving it to the one who is doing better regardless of his jersey number its that simple ... continuing to try and explain it to you is an exercise in futility at this point

[Mistah Q]

While I still feel Bell is the better back in general, if the O-line's breaking down and Dwyer is able to make a little more of it - you run Dwyer to see what happens. With even adequate O-line play you love a guy like Bell but when all hell is breaking down, you want a bowling ball. I think using guys situationally to their strengths isn't a knock on one or the other. I really doubt Dwyer would have produced given more carries, but you at least try it.

There's a line to be drawn where you don't want to demoralize your starting back, show faith through a rough patch, etc, but we're not even close to that line really. While the Steelers deserved to lose that game, it was still a game where small differences could have given the W. I'm a little torn. I think for the team to get back to winning in the long term we need a sobering enough year (and a couple good enough draft picks) for there to be organizational changes. So while I don't like the loss, I'm not as pissed about it as most seem to be - bring in the hatchet, I say.

But back on point - I'm pretty sure Dwins isn't saying "Dwyer is better, based on two carries". If you knew him any, you wouldn't think he meant that either. The point is what I said before -- I really doubt Dwyer would have produced given more carries, but you at least try it.

But perhaps Dwins is asking too much here. When have the Steelers ever done that? I'm pretty sure I remember enduring the rage and frustration of watching Amos Zereoue running for one yard, one yard, and then one more yard on third and long... and trying to force the issue of getting Bettis his TD in the Super Bowl... one yard and a cloud of dust is just our style.

[zulater]

After watching the game, Bell wasn't the problem. He actually did some good things, his pass blocking has improved, he catches the ball out of the backfield better than any back we've had in a while. And his running wasn't nearly as bad as his stats would suggest. He had two carries where combined he lost 9 yards. He didn't have a chance on either play, get hit on the one as soon as he secured the handoff, on the other, he tried to kick out around left end because the middle was locked up, and got buried in the flat. Anyway take those two runs out and he got what was ther to be had most every time. I don't think there's even a doubt that he's the Steelers best option in the backfield.

Dwyer has done what's asked of him though. He's good to have around.

[Dwinsgames]

After watching the game, Bell wasn't the problem. He actually did some good things, his pass blocking has improved, he catches the ball out of the backfield better than any back we've had in a while. And his running wasn't nearly as bad as his stats would suggest. He had two carries where combined he lost 9 yards. He didn't have a chance on either play, get hit on the one as soon as he secured the handoff, on the other, he tried to kick out around left end because the middle was locked up, and got buried in the flat. Anyway take those two runs out and he got what was ther to be had most every time. I don't think there's even a doubt that he's the Steelers best option in the backfield.

Dwyer has done what's asked of him though. He's good to have around.


On November 12, 2006, in a home game against the New Orleans Saints (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Orleans_Saints), Parker rushed for 213 yards on 22 carries and two touchdowns, coming 5 yards short of the highest single-game rushing total in Steelers history. His two long gains of 72 and 76 yards set up touchdowns that capped off the Pittsburgh victory, 38–31. His 76-yard sprint late in the 4th quarter was the longest rush in Heinz Field (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heinz_Field) history.

take away those 2 runs and Parker went 20 for 65 ( not a great day at the office ) ....

the thing about the NFL is we do not take away plays from a game to make the stats look the way we want them to , we take all the plays as they happened

[Seven]

Uh oh.... someone said Willie Parker :chuckle:

- - - Updated - - -

The three names I wince at the most when mentioned on this board: Mitt Romney, Mike Wallace and Willie Parker. Anytime one of those names are mentioned, there is a high chance turmoil will ensue :chuckle:

[Mistah Q]

Uh oh.... someone said Willie Parker :chuckle:

- - - Updated - - -

The three names I wince at the most when mentioned on this board: Mitt Romney, Mike Wallace and Willie Parker. Anytime one of those names are mentioned, there is a high chance turmoil will ensue :chuckle:
We should have signed all three of them to four year contracts. ;)

[zulater]

take away those 2 runs and Parker went 20 for 65 ( not a great day at the office ) ....

the thing about the NFL is we do not take away plays from a game to make the stats look the way we want them to , we take all the plays as they happened

I didn't say he had a great game, or even a good game. I just made the comment that I think he's the best back on the team, and there's no reason after this past game to revisit that.

I'm fine with Dwyer getting a series or two during the game. But Bell is your unquestioned starter, both in my opinion and the Steelers rotation. There is nothing to argue about. How good he'll be? We'll see. But this much I can tell you, Leveon hasn't dis proven himself as an NFL starter. Every other back on the roster pretty much has.

[Steeldude]

I didn't say he had a great game, or even a good game. I just made the comment that I think he's the best back on the team, and there's no reason after this past game to revisit that.

I'm fine with Dwyer getting a series or two during the game. But Bell is your unquestioned starter, both in my opinion and the Steelers rotation. There is nothing to argue about. How good he'll be? We'll see. But this much I can tell you, Leveon hasn't dis proven himself as an NFL starter. Every other back on the roster pretty much has.

Or proven himself, yet. He runs the same as the others when the O-line fails to open holes.

[zulater]

Or proven himself, yet. He runs the same as the others when the O-line fails to open holes.

Yea granted. He hasn't. But the others all have proven what they're not. So you need to find out if this kid can be the long term answer or not.

[Dwinsgames]

Yea granted. He hasn't. But the others all have proven what they're not. So you need to find out if this kid can be the long term answer or not.

how so when so many claim the failures of tis teams running game is the 0-Line , the line play has been bad for years .... and NONE of the RBs on the roster have had a chance to play behind a good line here yet .... ( so is Bell the only guy here that is capable of running behind good line ) he is not running as well behind the bad one we currently employ ... I believe Bell is the most physically gifted RB on the roster but no more so than Mendenhall was ...being physically gifted and being productive are not one in the same

[zulater]

Think what you like Dwins. As for me I'm fine with the Steelers making Bell the primary back. The fact that his pass blocking has improved as much and as quickly as it has tells me he isn't taking things for granted. I also think he's showing a lot more ability as a pass receiver than the other backs. So I'm not really sure what's the issue here?

[Dwinsgames]

Think what you like Dwins. As for me I'm fine with the Steelers making Bell the primary back. The fact that his pass blocking has improved as much and as quickly as it has tells me he isn't taking things for granted. I also think he's showing a lot more ability as a pass receiver than the other backs. So I'm not really sure what's the issue here?


1.8 YPC that is the issue , and the coaching staff not changing things up to try and improve it ....

2.1 YPC in another game ...

3.6 .....

4.9 ( his saving grace game that helps him make 3.3 for the year to date )

and most everyone here claimed Dwers 4.0 season average last year as NOT good enough but defend and make excuses for Bells lesser efforts ... baffling

[Psycho Ward 86]

Uh oh.... someone said Willie Parker :chuckle:

- - - Updated - - -

The three names I wince at the most when mentioned on this board: Mitt Romney, Mike Wallace and Willie Parker. Anytime one of those names are mentioned, there is a high chance turmoil will ensue :chuckle:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xSLlZh9yelk :lol:

[Count Steeler]

I think Dwyer shot himself in the foot one too many times. He showed up to camp overweight for 2 seasons, seemed to get into Tomlin's doghouse, and only because of injuries he got his shot. He did get 2 consecutive 100 yard games last season, something I don't think we will do again for awhile, and look liked a decent option. However, he still was winded and could not stay on the field for more than 2 runs.

I think his off the field issues ruined his chances of being an on the field success. Get a reputation as a slacker, and its hard to climb the ladder.

[Texasteel]

This is just my opinion, but there are two reasons I would keep Bell in the position he has now.

1. I really don't think we are going anywhere this year no matter who the RB is.

2. He is still learning, and will learn faster in the game. He is still figuring out what will and will not work in the pros. and starting to get use to the speed of the pro game. I have heard several players say that the hardest thing to get use to is the speed of the pro game. If I thought we were still in the hunt for a playoff spot I may change my mind, but I can't see that happening right now.

By the way, I don't think the posters on the other side are Bell haters, or even are down on Bell. I know one in particular that was very happy that we got him. It's just that they haven't see the play out of him that we were hoping for. Either way I think Bell will be fine, and end up as the future of the Steelers.

[Mojouw]

1.8 YPC that is the issue , and the coaching staff not changing things up to try and improve it ....

2.1 YPC in another game ...

3.6 .....

4.9 ( his saving grace game that helps him make 3.3 for the year to date )

and most everyone here claimed Dwers 4.0 season average last year as NOT good enough but defend and make excuses for Bells lesser efforts ... baffling

I'll bite. If nothing else to play devil's advocate. From what I remember of Dwyer last season, he is a back that has flashes of good traits and then stretches of bad ones. Let us put aside the YPC for a moment. I for one never advocated for Dwyer's demotion (I also want to clarify that while I was not shocked or totally outraged by the decision to cut him, I also did not agree with it) based on his raw statistics. Dwyer's inability to make defenders miss, set up blocks, run with patience or vision, and get in good enough shape that he could play more than 3 snaps in a row were why I felt a change was necessary. From what I have seen Bell is a better receiver, a more patient runner, and seems to have better instincts at the position than Dwyer has demonstrated.

So again, take the stats away, as they are product of the larger offense and its success or failures; what else do you not like about Bell? I for one will potentially hold it against him that he was a 2nd round pick in a league where the RB position is at an all time low in value. But I still see a back that has demonstrated more potential and room for improvement that Dwyer ever has. Let me be clear, I was super excited when Dwyer was drafted, but lost patience as he squandered opportunity after opportunity.

Do borrow an oldie but a goodie...."we just need a big back who can beat off defenders..."

[Dwinsgames]

I'll bite. If nothing else to play devil's advocate. From what I remember of Dwyer last season, he is a back that has flashes of good traits and then stretches of bad ones. Let us put aside the YPC for a moment. I for one never advocated for Dwyer's demotion (I also want to clarify that while I was not shocked or totally outraged by the decision to cut him, I also did not agree with it) based on his raw statistics. Dwyer's inability to make defenders miss, set up blocks, run with patience or vision, and get in good enough shape that he could play more than 3 snaps in a row were why I felt a change was necessary. From what I have seen Bell is a better receiver, a more patient runner, and seems to have better instincts at the position than Dwyer has demonstrated.

So again, take the stats away, as they are product of the larger offense and its success or failures; what else do you not like about Bell? I for one will potentially hold it against him that he was a 2nd round pick in a league where the RB position is at an all time low in value. But I still see a back that has demonstrated more potential and room for improvement that Dwyer ever has. Let me be clear, I was super excited when Dwyer was drafted, but lost patience as he squandered opportunity after opportunity.

Do borrow an oldie but a goodie...."we just need a big back who can beat off defenders..."


I have just 1 issue with Bell ... lack of Production

[Psycho Ward 86]

1.8 YPC that is the issue , and the coaching staff not changing things up to try and improve it ....

2.1 YPC in another game ...

3.6 .....

4.9 ( his saving grace game that helps him make 3.3 for the year to date )

and most everyone here claimed Dwers 4.0 season average last year as NOT good enough but defend and make excuses for Bells lesser efforts ... baffling

uh, bell wasnt on this team last season. you are comparing how dwyer played compared to bell on a completely different team. that makes zero sense. and of course dwyer's 4.0 average season wasnt good enough. we were in the bottom 5 in the league in rushing. 4.0 is a very so-so rushing YPC average. Look at the rushing YPC averages around the league last season and this season.

you dislike redman, a back who for most of his time here proved very effective in limited playing time, but ineffective when pressed into starting duties the past season and a half. yet you think dwyer would be more effective than bell based on his average of 3 carries per game. in an even greater twist of irony, bell actually has a higher YPC than dwyer on the season. i thought you wanted the more efficient back playing more?

dwyer has an awful work ethic, weight problems, inferior agility, zero ability as a receiver out of the backfield, and the worst vision from a running back we've had since willie parker. Despite this, i do tend to agree with you that he should get more playing time....but as a blocker, because he and redman were the top rated blocking backs in the entire NFL last year according to pro football focus. more 2-back sets look like a way to protect Ben.


inb4 ambiguous response

[Dwinsgames]

I will spell it out for you as plain as possible 1 last time then I am done ....

I do not care what year it took place in if 4.0 YPC Is not considered good enough an people complain those same people should not be making excuses for a different back producing 3.3 let alone 1.8.... I am done here

[Seven]

I have just 1 issue with Bell ... lack of Production

I think any back with more touches behind the current line is going to face similar problems, though. I like using Dwyer off the bench. His only weakness as a tailback, in my opinion, is stamina. Limited touches remedies that in a way that makes him a very effective player. I think last year was different in that we had a good run blocking offensive line for a solid portion of the season and Redman/Mendenhall were not performing behind it, where Dwyer was. I don't see that distinction between Dwyer and Bell this year if their roles were reversed. I could be wrong, that's just the way I see it.