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zulater
09-17-2013, 11:42 PM
What Mike Tomlin saw was readily apparent to anyone inside the Steelers' locker room following a loss that was a mirror image of their season-opening game.
“Ben is angry,” said Tomlin, who, like his quarterback, is 0-2 for the first time in his Steelers career.
Ben Roethlisberger also is sore, frustrated and quickly losing patience with the out-of-character start of a team that can't run the ball and can't possess it long enough to do much damage offensively.





“We've got to get better in a hurry,” Tomlin said.
Some possible changes:

• Speeding up the slow-moving offense that ran only 58 plays against the Bengals by employing more of the no-huddle. Both Steelers touchdowns this season came with Roethlisberger calling the plays in a hurry-up offense.
“Obviously, when you pick the pace of the offense up, it limits what defenses can do from a personnel standpoint, maybe even from a menu standpoint,” Tomlin said. “But those things are short-lived.”

• Getting rookie wide receiver Markus Wheaton on the field more. He played only five snaps Monday, and was on the bench when the slower Jerricho Cotchery ran an end-around.
“He hasn't been a target a lot,” Tomlin said. “Hopefully, that will increase as we move forward.”
• Using Kelvin Beachum more as a blocking tight end in an effort to get better run blocking; he played only two downs.
• Letting Roethlisberger call more of his own plays, something the quarterback obviously enjoys. But Tomlin isn't blaming the play-calling.


Read more: http://triblive.com/sports/steelers/4717453-74/tomlin-loss-football#ixzz2fDSZxe8I
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I've got a feeling Todd Haley didn't have a very enjoyable trip home from Cincy. I think Tomlin has about had it with him and may have unleashed hell on Todd.

Craic
09-17-2013, 11:45 PM
I've got a feeling Todd Haley didn't have a very enjoyable trip home from Cincy. I think Tomlin has about had it with him and may have unleashed hell on Todd.
:toofunny:

Now THAT was funny!

steel9guy
09-17-2013, 11:47 PM
This team is an offense away from 2-0. I don't think they are going anywhere this year but the optimist in me still thinks they have to get it turned around. It'd really be nice to use Beachum the way we did in the first drive of the first game where he was a blocking tight end. We were productive in that. Also letting Felix Jones start ahead of Redman would greatly help in my opinion. Lastly if we put Wheaton in there then we might open some things up. I don't understand why Haley never visited these things Monday but I hope he does something to move the ball. Our offense is literally killing our defense from not taking time off the clock.

zulater
09-18-2013, 12:10 AM
Tomlin: “We have to continue to turn the stones over and look at the men we're utilizing and what we're asking them to do and put them in the most advantageous positions to succeed.”
Take: Surely, putting players in the “most advantageous positions to succeed” can never, ever mean Jerricho Cotchery on an end-around. I asked Tomlin if there had been some confusion in personnel on the play. In other words, was Cotchery even supposed to be in the game, or was that play ticketed for Antonio Brown or Emmanuel Sanders or someone who can, you know, run?
His cryptic answer: “It wasn't a well-executed play. Obviously, we're capable of using other people, but he was the guy in there at that time.”


Read more: http://triblive.com/sports/joestarkey/4717450-74/steelers-tomlin-game#ixzz2fDZzOB9v
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NCSteeler
09-18-2013, 07:21 AM
Tomlin: “We have to continue to turn the stones over and look at the men we're utilizing and what we're asking them to do and put them in the most advantageous positions to succeed.”
Take: Surely, putting players in the “most advantageous positions to succeed” can never, ever mean Jerricho Cotchery on an end-around. I asked Tomlin if there had been some confusion in personnel on the play. In other words, was Cotchery even supposed to be in the game, or was that play ticketed for Antonio Brown or Emmanuel Sanders or someone who can, you know, run?
His cryptic answer: “It wasn't a well-executed play. Obviously, we're capable of using other people, but he was the guy in there at that time.”


Read more: http://triblive.com/sports/joestarkey/4717450-74/steelers-tomlin-game#ixzz2fDZzOB9v
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a pure screw up and he will not "own it" or "wear it" or insert Tomlinism here

Master Blaster
09-18-2013, 07:41 AM
Tomlin: “We have to continue to turn the stones over and look at the men we're utilizing and what we're asking them to do and put them in the most advantageous positions to succeed.”
Take: Surely, putting players in the “most advantageous positions to succeed” can never, ever mean Jerricho Cotchery on an end-around. I asked Tomlin if there had been some confusion in personnel on the play. In other words, was Cotchery even supposed to be in the game, or was that play ticketed for Antonio Brown or Emmanuel Sanders or someone who can, you know, run?
His cryptic answer: “It wasn't a well-executed play. Obviously, we're capable of using other people, but he was the guy in there at that time.”


Read more: http://triblive.com/sports/joestarkey/4717450-74/steelers-tomlin-game#ixzz2fDZzOB9v
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Then if Mr. Quote Machine didn't like the use of Cotchery in that situation then he, as the head coach, should have said so, at that time. Hindsight being 20-20, it's easy for Tomlin to point out the obvious, after the game was over. I didn't hear Tomlin own up to why he insisted on having Redman as the starting running back either.

Dwinsgames
09-18-2013, 06:25 PM
outside of Lebeau and Lake I am not certain ANY of the Steelers coaches are worth a dam

ALLD
09-18-2013, 06:39 PM
3 Rules to fix the offense:
1. Don't fumble the ball.
2. Refer to rule #1.
3. Let Ben run the no huddle most of the game.

Craic
09-18-2013, 06:47 PM
a pure screw up and he will not "own it" or "wear it" or insert Tomlinism here

It actually sounds to me like it was probably Haley's on the spot call, and screwed it up, and Tomlin isn't going to out him in public. It's a good leadership thing to do, part of that "Keep it behind closed doors" mentality that we used to like around here.

I can only hope that behind closed doors, Tomlin informed Haley that it simply will not ​happen again.

zulater
09-19-2013, 05:43 AM
The outside zone-blocking scheme was the answer to all of the Steelers' running problems … in April.
Fast forward a few months and the scheme that was all the rave during the spring and summer has yet to make an appearance, and nobody quite knows why.
“That's probably a better question for (offensive coordinator) Todd (Haley) because he is the one calling the plays,” quarterback Ben Roethlisberger said.


Read more: http://triblive.com/sports/steelers/4728878-74/scheme-steelers-running#ixzz2fKlSTf6f


Slap!

I'll call it now, if this offense doesn't start to get it's act together by the bye Haleys' gone. The Ravens laid the groundwork for an in season firing last year when they canned Cam Cameron in early December to great results.

NJarhead
09-19-2013, 06:49 AM
What Mike Tomlin saw was readily apparent to anyone inside the Steelers' locker room following a loss that was a mirror image of their season-opening game.
“Ben is angry,” said Tomlin, who, like his quarterback, is 0-2 for the first time in his Steelers career.
Ben Roethlisberger also is sore, frustrated and quickly losing patience with the out-of-character start of a team that can't run the ball and can't possess it long enough to do much damage offensively.





“We've got to get better in a hurry,” Tomlin said.
Some possible changes:

• Speeding up the slow-moving offense that ran only 58 plays against the Bengals by employing more of the no-huddle. Both Steelers touchdowns this season came with Roethlisberger calling the plays in a hurry-up offense.
“Obviously, when you pick the pace of the offense up, it limits what defenses can do from a personnel standpoint, maybe even from a menu standpoint,” Tomlin said. “But those things are short-lived.”

• Getting rookie wide receiver Markus Wheaton on the field more. He played only five snaps Monday, and was on the bench when the slower Jerricho Cotchery ran an end-around.“He hasn't been a target a lot,” Tomlin said. “Hopefully, that will increase as we move forward.”
• Using Kelvin Beachum more as a blocking tight end in an effort to get better run blocking; he played only two downs.
• Letting Roethlisberger call more of his own plays, something the quarterback obviously enjoys. But Tomlin isn't blaming the play-calling.


Read more: http://triblive.com/sports/steelers/4717453-74/tomlin-loss-football#ixzz2fDSZxe8I
Follow us: @triblive on Twitter | triblive on Facebook



I've got a feeling Todd Haley didn't have a very enjoyable trip home from Cincy. I think Tomlin has about had it with him and may have unleashed hell on Todd.


I'd like to know what the thought process was there. We have a few other speed guys at WR and one at RB. Cotchery is slightly faster than Paulson. I was scratching my head on the play.

NCSteeler
09-19-2013, 08:24 AM
I'd like to know what the thought process was there. We have a few other speed guys at WR and one at RB. Cotchery is slightly faster than Paulson. I was scratching my head on the play.

The same simple in game coaching that has got us this far. Gameday coaching has been terrible for some time now,prior to this year the team has been good enough to overcome it, but the last 3 years or so gameday coaching mistakes have been the standard.

NJarhead
09-19-2013, 08:41 AM
The same simple in game coaching that has got us this far. Gameday coaching has been terrible for some time now,prior to this year the team has been good enough to overcome it, but the last 3 years or so gameday coaching mistakes have been the standard.

Can't argue with that; personnel changes on a likely fumble challenge, wrong personnel on a GL play (no TO called), your slowest WR running a reverse....

I'm not ready to join the Anti-Haley crowd just yet, but I understand their complaints.

Craic
09-19-2013, 06:47 PM
The same simple in game coaching that has got us this far. Gameday coaching has been terrible for some time now,prior to this year the team has been good enough to overcome it, but the last 3 years or so gameday coaching mistakes have been the standard.


Can't argue with that; personnel changes on a likely fumble challenge, wrong personnel on a GL play (no TO called), your slowest WR running a reverse....

I'm not ready to join the Anti-Haley crowd just yet, but I understand their complaints.

I've been okay with some of the gameday decisions. Going for it to show your offense that you have trust in them (a couple years ago) when you had a very good defense, yeah, I'm fine with that.

I thought that yanking plays at the first sign of a mistake was a bad choice, I still wonder if half of Sweed's problems were the quick hook he'd get whenever he'd make a mistake, not letting him settle into a game. The numerous fumbles last year seemed to be the same thing, especially in Cleveland. Yank a RB for fumbling, then yank another for the same. Every RB that goes out there now is worried about one thing, fumbling and getting yanked from the game. It seems that once you get into Tomlin's doghouse, it's pretty hard to get out. That's not good.

I'm not on the fire Tomlin, or fire Haley bandwagon at all, but there is obvious room for growth both on gameday coaching decisions, and personnel decisions, IMO.

SteelMayhem72
09-19-2013, 07:53 PM
The outside zone-blocking scheme was the answer to all of the Steelers' running problems … in April.
Fast forward a few months and the scheme that was all the rave during the spring and summer has yet to make an appearance, and nobody quite knows why.
“That's probably a better question for (offensive coordinator) Todd (Haley) because he is the one calling the plays,” quarterback Ben Roethlisberger said.


Read more: http://triblive.com/sports/steelers/4728878-74/scheme-steelers-running#ixzz2fKlSTf6f


Slap!

I'll call it now, if this offense doesn't start to get it's act together by the bye Haleys' gone. The Ravens laid the groundwork for an in season firing last year when they canned Cam Cameron in early December to great results.

Who we gonna hire??? Riddle me this batman...lol

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Im starting to believe that ben is having trouble running a more complicated offense...just my honest opinion!

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I also think Ben's backyard football mentality handicaps him in learning a pocket type offensive scheme...granted the backyard football mentality has worked for years!!

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Let Ben do his thing...if the first couple reads arent there then move out of the pocket and find the open receivers. Most defenders cant defend beyond 6 seconds

zulater
09-19-2013, 08:10 PM
Who we gonna hire??? Riddle me this batman...lol

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Im starting to believe that ben is having trouble running a more complicated offense...just my honest opinion!

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I also think Ben's backyard football mentality handicaps him in learning a pocket type offensive scheme...granted the backyard football mentality has worked for years!!

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Let Ben do his thing...if the first couple reads arent there then move out of the pocket and find the open receivers. Most defenders cant defend beyond 6 seconds

http://www.millionaireplayboy.com/mpb/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/seven_batman_lame_00.jpg

Batman says, Kirby Wilson will be given the job on an interim basis for the remainder of the season if they make a move.

SteelMayhem72
09-19-2013, 08:20 PM
http://www.millionaireplayboy.com/mpb/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/seven_batman_lame_00.jpg

Batman says, Kirby Wilson will be given the job on an interim basis for the remainder of the season if they make a move.
Ok...but can he do it is the key or we let ben do the peyton manning thing???

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steelers are not known to fire coaches during the season...that is not how we operate so Haley getting fired during the season will never happen!

zulater
09-19-2013, 08:25 PM
Ok...but can he do it is the key or we let ben do the peyton manning thing???

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steelers are not known to fire coaches during the season...that is not how we operate so Haley getting fired during the season will never happen!

There was an if in there in case you missed it, and besides, don't argue with Batman! :chuckle:

SteelMayhem72
09-19-2013, 08:28 PM
There was an if in there in case you missed it, and besides, don't argue with Batman! :chuckle:

LOL...you know I have to say I love everybodys opinions in here. It gives me different perspectives on things plus I feel like im not going through this disaster alone...lol

stillers4me
09-19-2013, 08:35 PM
Kirby Wilson would have been promoted if he hadn't been burned in the fire.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk 4

zulater
09-19-2013, 08:45 PM
LOL...you know I have to say I love everybodys opinions in here. It gives me different perspectives on things plus I feel like im not going through this disaster alone...lol


And I know the Steelers don't have a history of firing coaches in season, but they also don't have a recent history of starting out 0-4 ( remember my premise of firing Haley is if things continue along the current path) or being last in the league in offense. And don't forget Tomlin fired his special teams coach a week before the season started last year. So there is some precedent of him making change if he thinks things are dire enough.

SteelMayhem72
09-19-2013, 09:23 PM
Firing haley will never happen

Nadroj 20
09-19-2013, 09:35 PM
I don't see how we can have the worse, not my opinion statistically the WORSE, offense in the NFL and I see "firing haley will never happen"

Uhh never say never. If we are 0-4 at the bye week and are still dead last in offense. I can see it happening. Why couldn't it? History goes out the door and won't help us now. Do what helps now.

tube517
09-19-2013, 09:41 PM
I'm not in the bandwagon to pitchfork Haley but the Steelers do fire OCs or DCs (not named LeBeau). I wouldn't be surprised if it happens

HollywoodSteel
09-19-2013, 09:43 PM
Firing haley will never happen

It will almost certainly happen. Just probably not during the season. The offense under performs and Arians was fired after a 12 win season. And he was loved by our franchise QB. You really think Haley will survive this kind of year? Especially since Ben doesn't like him and, if rumors are true, he was never Tomlin's guy.

SteelMayhem72
09-19-2013, 09:53 PM
It will almost certainly happen. Just probably not during the season. The offense under performs and Arians was fired after a 12 win season. And he was loved by our franchise QB. You really think Haley will survive this kind of year? Especially since Ben doesn't like him and, if rumors are true, he was never Tomlin's guy.

Read previous quotes...Haley will not be fired during the season!

zulater
09-19-2013, 09:57 PM
Read previous quotes...Haley will not be fired during the season!

If we're 0-4 and still dead last in offense. He will. Mark my word. But hopefully my hypothesis will never get a chance to be proven, because we'll be 2-2 at the bye and showing signs of life on the offensive side of the ball by then. :pray:

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Published: Thursday, Aug. 23, 2012, 5:12 p.m.

Turns out Mike Tomlin wasn't done shaking up his coaching staff when Bruce Arians was let go seven months ago. Now, Al Everest is out, too.

Everest was abruptly fired as special teams coordinator following practice Thursday and replaced by his assistant, Amos Jones, who already was doing much of the on-field coaching.

“We are continually evaluating our coaching staff and support staff, and we have decided to go in a different direction with respect to the coaching of our special teams,” Tomlin said in a statement released by the team.



Read more: http://triblive.com/sports/steelers/2467689-85/everest-special-steelers-teams-coordinator-boxes-coach-game-ligashesky-move#ixzz2fOjiuIcT
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Here's your precedent.

SteelMayhem72
09-19-2013, 10:02 PM
If we're 0-4 and still dead last in offense. He will. Mark my word. But hopefully my hypothesis will never get a chance to be proven, because we'll be 2-2 at the bye and showing signs of life on the offensive side of the ball by then. :pray:

- - - Updated - - -

Published: Thursday, Aug. 23, 2012, 5:12 p.m.

Turns out Mike Tomlin wasn't done shaking up his coaching staff when Bruce Arians was let go seven months ago. Now, Al Everest is out, too.

Everest was abruptly fired as special teams coordinator following practice Thursday and replaced by his assistant, Amos Jones, who already was doing much of the on-field coaching.

“We are continually evaluating our coaching staff and support staff, and we have decided to go in a different direction with respect to the coaching of our special teams,” Tomlin said in a statement released by the team.



Read more: http://triblive.com/sports/steelers/2467689-85/everest-special-steelers-teams-coordinator-boxes-coach-game-ligashesky-move#ixzz2fOjiuIcT
Follow us: @triblive on Twitter | triblive on Facebook

Here's your precedent.

Nobody will be fired during the season...I assure and promise you...reason being that it will do more harm and good!!

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Nobody will be fired during the season...I assure and promise you...reason being that it will do more harm and good!!

Special teams is a totally different animal than offense or defense

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No coach on offense or defense will be fired during the season!

HollywoodSteel
09-19-2013, 10:04 PM
Read previous quotes...Haley will not be fired during the season!

I read all the quotes. I was only responding to yours. I figured if you meant "during the season" you would have said so. But just to compensate for a possible lack of clarity on your part I was super clear what I meant. :)

SteelMayhem72
09-19-2013, 10:08 PM
I read all the quotes. I was only responding to yours. I figured if you meant "during the season" you would have said so. But just to compensate for a possible lack of clarity on your part I was super clear what I meant. :)

No offensive or defensive coordinators will be fired during the season!

zulater
09-19-2013, 10:09 PM
Nobody will be fired during the season...I assure and promise you...reason being that it will do more harm and good!!

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Special teams is a totally different animal than offense or defense

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No coach on offense or defense will be fired during the season!


Lol, how can it do "more harm than good" if you're already dead last in offense and 0-4? What are we going to be demoted to the CFL or something? :chuckle:

And prior to Al Everest being fired in late August no Steeler asst coach in history had been fired between the start of training camp and the end of the season. So obviously Tomlin is willing to change precedent when necessary.

SteelMayhem72
09-19-2013, 10:12 PM
No offensive or defensive coordinators will be fired during the season!

Ill say it again...Haley will not be fired DURING the season!!!

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Ok now that thats cleared up...getting heath back will be a huge plus!! Bell will not be ready so Jones needs to step it up! I do believe we will see improvements against da bears I do not believe we will be able to match their scoring so we can start blaming our D after this game...final score 28-17 bears

zulater
09-19-2013, 10:23 PM
Ill say it again...Haley will not be fired DURING the season!!!

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Ok now that thats cleared up...getting heath back will be a huge plus!! Bell will not be ready so Jones needs to step it up! I do believe we will see improvements against da bears I do not believe we will be able to match their scoring so we can start blaming our D after this game...final score 28-17 bears

Doesn't make it true.

SteelMayhem72
09-19-2013, 10:24 PM
I know...just my opinion!

zulater
09-19-2013, 10:28 PM
I know...just my opinion!

I hope you're right, in the sense that we don't get to 0-4 and the offense shows signs of coming to life. But if it doesn't, and we're 0-4 and the offense remains the walking dead, then I truly believe Todd Haley gets shit canned on the way home from London. Just my opinion.

And Batman's. :heh:

HollywoodSteel
09-19-2013, 10:31 PM
No offensive or defensive coordinators will be fired during the season!

I think you're probably right about that. The only reason I might not be totally blown away by the move is if it's true that Tomlin really wanted Wilson to begin with. It doesn't seem like Tomlin would do this, but if he felt that replacing Haley would give the offense a kick in the pants I think ownership would go along with it. Especially since Ben would probably respond well to it.

zulater
09-20-2013, 05:45 AM
http://db66abc2c256b763aaef-ce5d943d4869ae027976e5ad085dd9b0.r76.cf2.rackcdn.c om/2013/262/445/haley_420.jpg

Is it me, or does Ben's look seem as if he could happily imagine Todd in a North Korean prison? :lol:

Anyone care to add a good caption to it?

zulater
09-20-2013, 08:08 AM
Just been watching the game a little on NFL rewind and here's a couple things I noticed from the first couple series. The first play from scrimmage ( run to Jones) had no chance to work because no one blocked the LOLB. This on a strong side run. Gilbert ran right by him, and Paulson went in motion to the weakside and flipped back to the strongside at the snap and then blocked DeCastro's ass. :doh: On second down we ran into a stacked line. On 3rd and 9 we ran a giveaway draw from the shotgun that was doomed by poor execution by Foster and Adams.

On our 2nd series we go play action and Ben actually threw a perfect strike to Sanders in the end zone. But Sanders got bumped off stride by Pacman Jones 20 yards downfield in his pattern and it slowed him just enough that he was a foot short of the pass. Was this a uncalled penalty? No, the thing about it it looks as if Sanders is the one who runs into Jones!! For no damn reason that I can see!? He just gave himself so slight of a rub, but thats all it took for a perfectly designed play that was executed perfectly by 10 Steelers to end up an incomplete pass.

The more I see of Sanders the more pedestrian he looks.

Dwinsgames
09-20-2013, 08:25 AM
The more I see of Sanders the more pedestrian he looks.


hence why I said it was stupid to match the Pats offer for him as a RFA , and why I stated since we are stuck with him put him back in the slot play Wheaton / Moye on the edge and at the seasons end let him walk .....

zulater
09-20-2013, 08:44 AM
Then of course on the play after we miss out on what should have been a touchdown Ben gets sacked. Gilbert and Adams both got destroyed off the snap and share the blame equally. For those that like to blame Ben for sacks, this had nothing to do with a bad pre-snap read or holding on to the ball too long .Just the right tackle and guard who got beat cleanly one on one right at the snap.

zulater
09-20-2013, 09:05 AM
I have to go racing so I don't have time to watch the rest of the game today. But I was looking for something and skipped ahead in the rewind and came across the play where Opie Daulton overthrows Ike Taylor. Or so I thought. Looking at the play again Ike really didn't make a great effort on the ball. Yeah I know he can't catch, but he was all alone, and never even tried to stretch out for the ball. If he makes a better effort he at the very least gets his hands, and yes plural hands on the ball. Ike had a good game in coverage, but an interception there could have swung momentum back in the Steelers favor. His lack of effort going after that ball bothers me.

Dwinsgames
09-20-2013, 09:07 AM
some transition ...we can not Run OR Pass ...

do 1 thing and do it right then build on that to do other things ...

we can not run to set up the pass and we can not pass to set up the run ....

we face 8 in the box and can not throw ....

we face 7 in the box and can not run ....

both above scenarios are considered ideal circumstances to succeed yet we fail ....

why ???

it all starts up front , if the line play sucks everything that is predicated on them fails ...they can not pass block ...they can not run block ....

we can not pass ...we can not run ....

solution seems basic but yet they are trying to turn it into rocket science in the " looking for solutions "

the play book is not the answer , the personnel at the skill pos. for the most part is not the answer ( won't matter a whole lot who is in there ) .... if you lose the battle in the trenches you are already behind the 8 ball in terms of making anything good happen on a consistent basis ....

what can help solve some of those issues ???

SIMPLE SOLUTION !!!

1) get better play from the linemen either by scheme or change or both .....if that can not happen with the group you selected as starters then you suck at player evaluation and are in the wrong profession ( I suspect they suck at player eval )

but even then not all is necessarily lost , things can be done to mask the issues if you are smart enough to actually do it ...

2) screen plays to the RB and FB in the voids left by the pass rushers , nothing slows the rush more than plays taking place in the areas they just vacated , but you can not throw screens at the LOS they have to be 3-4 yards past the LOS to have a chance at developing and give the player a chance to make something happen with the ball in his hands ......

3) once you accomplish #2 the rush should be slowed enough to get some deeper passes and if you connect on a few of those deeper routes then running become easier because you have some open lanes between the tackles ( not filled with extra rushers ) we have a tough enough time blocking 4 , 5 is out of the question if you are not smart enough as a staff to realize this revert to the second part of #1

ALLD
09-20-2013, 09:29 AM
We will not be #32 in offense no matter what. There are two teams tied at #15, so we are only 31st.