PDA

View Full Version : Steelers please trade Ben at the end of this season.



zulater
09-16-2013, 10:36 PM
He deserves better than what this organization can give him.

Seriously this team is going to be bad for a long time. Need a full rebuilding and a different construction team.

Anyway after your 3-13 season get what you can for him, because you'll never be a contender in his career span again.

Seven
09-16-2013, 10:46 PM
And Zulater's annual/weekly overreaction threads have officially begun.... :chuckle: Just kidding buddy, well, sort of. There are some SOLID pieces on this team. There are a lot of teams that are worse off. Ben isn't going anywhere nor should he want to. If Bell pans out, all we're really lacking is a big play receiver. I'm not so sure Moye, Sanders or Wheaton won't eventually be that. This is a young offense. You have to have more patience than calling for heads two weeks into the season. The Bengals are a good team and we were a fumble and a bad call away from winning. I don't see a necessity for this type of reaction, although I know it is inevitable from our fans.

JayC
09-16-2013, 10:48 PM
put ben on a team with a half decent line and they'd make the playoffs every year. why couldn't we just do that

can we start by getting rid of tomlin though please instead

zulater
09-16-2013, 10:49 PM
And Zulater's annual/weekly overreaction threads have officially begun.... :chuckle: Just kidding buddy, well, sort of. There are some SOLID pieces on this team. There are a lot of teams that are worse off. Ben isn't going anywhere nor should he want to. If Bell pans out, all we're really lacking is a big play receiver. I'm not so sure Moye, Sanders or Wheaton won't eventually be that. This is a young offense. You have to have more patience than calling for heads two weeks into the season. The Bengals are a good team and we were a fumble and a bad call away from winning. I don't see a necessity for this type of reaction, although I know it is inevitable from our fans.

This team wont win 5 games this year. I don't what team you're watching but it's not the 2013 Steelers.

JayC
09-16-2013, 10:58 PM
has ben lost his magic for good or is it just because the line/weapons/play calls are poor??

Seven
09-16-2013, 10:59 PM
This team wont win 5 games this year. I don't what team you're watching but it's not the 2013 Steelers.

Won't win 5 games? I'll place a wager on that if you'd be interested.

HollywoodSteel
09-16-2013, 11:02 PM
This team wont win 5 games this year. I don't what team you're watching but it's not the 2013 Steelers.

Sure they will. It would be far too easy on us if they could just eliminate themselves from the get go. No, they'll put together a string of wins just to get some hopes up to cause the most possible crushing pain and to put us in a position where we can make mistakes drafting.

I am feeling so negative right now I just want to be put out of my misery. But I'm also too negative to even hope for that much?

Seven
09-16-2013, 11:03 PM
has ben lost his magic for good or is it just because the line/weapons/play calls are poor??

Weapons are young and/or playing poorly. Line played very well tonight. With Bell, Heath and Cortez this may very well be a totally different team. Moye needs to move ahead of Cotchery. The Bengals are a very good team. I don't see how this loss elicits such a negative reaction.

zulater
09-16-2013, 11:03 PM
Won't win 5 games? I'll place a wager on that if you'd be interested.

I'm not going to bet against them, and I'm not going to root against them. I just don't think they're any good, and I don't see any sign of help on the way until Heath is back and healthy. I'm calling it as I see it. But I hope I'm wrong.

Dwinsgames
09-16-2013, 11:04 PM
we will win more than 5 games ...no way do we get a top 5 pick we are not that lucky at being unlucky

Edman
09-16-2013, 11:09 PM
You know what? I wouldn't mind the Steelers trading Ben away. I honestly wouldn't.

Since the Steelers are looking at a Top 10 pick, it's time to really start cutting our losses and stop the bleeding. Ben is an incompetent Offensive Leader and isn't getting any better.

Time to rebuild for real this time. The Age is over.

zulater
09-16-2013, 11:12 PM
You know what? I wouldn't mind the Steelers trading Ben away. I honestly wouldn't.

Since the Steelers are looking at a Top 10 pick, it's time to really start cutting our losses and stop the bleeding. Ben is an incompetent Offensive Leader and isn't getting any better.

Time to rebuild for real this time. The Age is over.

Put him on the Bengals and they're going to the Super Bowl.

Seven
09-16-2013, 11:14 PM
I'm not going to bet against them, and I'm not going to root against them. I just don't think they're any good, and I don't see any sign of help on the way until Heath is back and healthy. I'm calling it as I see it. But I hope I'm wrong.

I think Heath and Cortez come back within the next couple weeks and then it is a whole new ball game. If we move Moye ahead of Cotchery that helps the offense right there. The line played well tonight. That is the biggest thing I take away from this game. If Velasco has somehow made this line gel, which at least tonight appeared to be the case, then A LOT changes. We need Brown, Sanders, Moye and Wheaton to start fulfilling their potential. That's the key to everything for me. If those guys step up, we're good as gold. Defense has been tackling poorly but they are playing well enough to win if the offense clicks. I do understand the frustration, but I think the margin between this team sucking and playing great is very slim. I believe it could change in an instant. Because outside of our receivers playing poorly, I don't see anything fundamentally wrong with this roster.

JayC
09-16-2013, 11:15 PM
You know what? I wouldn't mind the Steelers trading Ben away. I honestly wouldn't.

Since the Steelers are looking at a Top 10 pick, it's time to really start cutting our losses and stop the bleeding. Ben is an incompetent Offensive Leader and isn't getting any better.

Time to rebuild for real this time. The Age is over.i agree! at this point i think i'd rather struggle with a top 10 QB than ben. ben peaked awhile back and seems to have had no interest in becoming a true elite qb in the nfl, something i believe he could have been. i for sure am not putting the blame on him but i am just saying i would welcome a change in the offseason. i'd rather rebuild with new coaches and a new qb than this bullshit we have going on right now.

fansince'76
09-16-2013, 11:17 PM
I think Heath and Cortez come back within the next couple weeks and then it is a whole new ball game. If we move Moye ahead of Cotchery that helps the offense right there. The line played well tonight. That is the biggest thing I take away from this game. If Velasco has somehow made this line gel, which at least tonight appeared to be the case, then A LOT changes. We need Brown, Sanders, Moye and Wheaton to start fulfilling their potential. That's the key to everything for me. If those guys step up, we're good as gold. Defense has been tackling poorly but they are playing well enough to win if the offense clicks. I do understand the frustration, but I think the margin between this team sucking and playing great is very slim. I believe it could change in an instant. Because outside of our receivers playing poorly, I don't see anything fundamentally wrong with this roster.

I'm worried about the running game getting absolutely nothing, but I agree with your premise. It's been frustrating to watch, but I don't think they're that far off either. Especially considering that NOBODY outside of maybe the Broncos and Seahawks are exactly playing like worldbeaters at the moment either.

steeldawg
09-16-2013, 11:19 PM
Its no coincidence that our offense slipped into the seventh circle of hell as soon as haley arrived. Ben did not suddenly forget how to play, you change the entire offense for your franchise qb take away his running game put him behind an inexperienced young line and give him no downfield threats and expect him to take you to a superbowl. I really don't see what the problem is.

Seven
09-16-2013, 11:22 PM
I'm worried about the running game getting absolutely nothing, but I agree with your premise. It's been frustrating to watch, but I don't think they're that far off either. Especially considering that NOBODY outside of maybe the Broncos and Seahawks are exactly playing like worldbeaters at the moment either.

Agree about the running game. Bell is the wild card there. Only reason I don't mention that is because I don't think you need a good running game to have a winning season anymore. We've certainly won without it in the past. That's not to say it wouldn't help, but I don't think it's a necessity the way the passing game is. If the receivers started playing better and the rest of the team played exactly the way they did tonight, I'd think we'd contend for the division. I think the line between poor and good is that fine.

zulater
09-16-2013, 11:23 PM
i agree! at this point i think i'd rather struggle with a top 10 QB than ben. ben peaked awhile back and seems to have had no interest in becoming a true elite qb in the nfl, something i believe he could have been. i for sure am not putting the blame on him but i am just saying i would welcome a change in the offseason. i'd rather rebuild with new coaches and a new qb than this bullshit we have going on right now.

Yeah life will be great with Tomlin and a future incarnation of Kent Graham or Kordell Stewart. :sarcasm:

I really want Ben traded to prove to you naysayers, haters, and doubters that there's a reason we went to 3 Super Bowls with Ben at Qb.

steel9guy
09-16-2013, 11:23 PM
Ben deserves so much more than this. Sad.

Edman
09-16-2013, 11:23 PM
i agree! at this point i think i'd rather struggle with a top 10 QB than ben. ben peaked awhile back and seems to have had no interest in becoming a true elite qb in the nfl, something i believe he could have been. i for sure am not putting the blame on him but i am just saying i would welcome a change in the offseason. i'd rather rebuild with new coaches and a new qb than this bullshit we have going on right now.

We got what we are going to get with Ben. He is just as much a part of the problem as Tomlin and Haley. He's not a good veteran leader, as demonstrated this year. He was blessed with being on good Steelers teams with strong veteran talent and presence, but lacks none of their qualities to lead himself. So when the vets left, he can't pick up the slack.

The long scramble that ended in another sack was vintage Bad Ben. He's not a part of the solution, so he's part of the problem by default.

SteelMayhem72
09-16-2013, 11:24 PM
I think Heath and Cortez come back within the next couple weeks and then it is a whole new ball game. If we move Moye ahead of Cotchery that helps the offense right there. The line played well tonight. That is the biggest thing I take away from this game. If Velasco has somehow made this line gel, which at least tonight appeared to be the case, then A LOT changes. We need Brown, Sanders, Moye and Wheaton to start fulfilling their potential. That's the key to everything for me. If those guys step up, we're good as gold. Defense has been tackling poorly but they are playing well enough to win if the offense clicks. I do understand the frustration, but I think the margin between this team sucking and playing great is very slim. I believe it could change in an instant. Because outside of our receivers playing poorly, I don't see anything fundamentally wrong with this roster.

I like your optimism but I dont think we are that far along

Edman
09-16-2013, 11:24 PM
Its no coincidence that our offense slipped into the seventh circle of hell as soon as haley arrived. Ben did not suddenly forget how to play, you change the entire offense for your franchise qb take away his running game put him behind an inexperienced young line and give him no downfield threats and expect him to take you to a superbowl. I really don't see what the problem is.


Ben was on pace for MVP and the Steelers were 6-3 "When Haley arrived".

zulater
09-16-2013, 11:25 PM
By the way , about Ben's errant passes, when you're throwing off your back foot all night that's what happens. No running game = no play action. Poor down and distance situations make the defense's job real easy.

SteelMayhem72
09-16-2013, 11:28 PM
There is no reason to have this thread...we have a Superbowl QB and now throw him to the dogs...take this thread down!!

zulater
09-16-2013, 11:31 PM
There is no reason to have this thread...we have a Superbowl QB and now throw him to the dogs...take this thread down!!

"Throw him to the dogs"? That's where he is now, I'm wanting them to do him a favor and get him out of this kennel.

steel9guy
09-16-2013, 11:35 PM
By the way , about Ben's errant passes, when you're throwing off your back foot all night that's what happens. No running game = no play action. Poor down and distance situations make the defense's job real easy.

100% agree. If Ben had ANY LINE AT ALL we are 2-0 right now and Ben has at least 10 beautiful play action passes to his name. They are wasting his career.

Lambert_Loonie
09-16-2013, 11:37 PM
Why stop there? Let's move the team to LA and change the team name and logo while we're at it. Black and gold doesn't work in Los Angeles. Needs more bright colors and a contemporary nickname.

SteelMayhem72
09-16-2013, 11:38 PM
Its embarrassing to hear other so called steeler fans wanting to throw Ben away...hes the only QB in the NFL to be able to "deal" with this O line!!

Shoes
09-16-2013, 11:40 PM
"Throw him to the dogs"? That's where he is now, I'm wanting them to do him a favor and get him out of this kennel.

:chuckle:

oneforthetoe
09-16-2013, 11:44 PM
Wow ... you know we are 0 -2. Still, we have been in both games in the fourth quarter. Our D could still be one of the top ten in the League, even with all the young players. And our special teams are actually playing pretty well. Our offense sucks, no doubt. That is not a recipe for a 3-13 team. We are looking at between 6-8 and 9-7, imo. And I certainly don't see why we can't get competitive for the division in future years.

st33lersguy
09-16-2013, 11:58 PM
Trade Ben so we can go what 0-16?

Craic
09-17-2013, 01:02 AM
It's funny to watch people react to a thread when they either haven't read the OP, or react to the OP without thinking about what was said.

I do, however, think Zu's dead wrong. This team isn't headed for a horrible time over the next 3-5 years (rest of Ben's career). Moye was a nice little surprise tonight (good to see him do that in the endzone) and we're getting our TE back in a couple games. We are weak at RT and at RB. Those need to be fixed. I think our RB blocking scheme is wrong as well, whatever it is we're using right now. But it isn't going to take blowing this team up in order to fix it.

So I see no reason for trading Ben away in order to let him finish his career with a better team. On the other hand, if, in a couple years, we have a QB that is solid as a backup, I wouldn't mind seeing a trade for a first round draft choice and a couple players, or a couple first round draft choices and a player (depending on who they are).

steelreserve
09-17-2013, 01:36 AM
100% agree. If Ben had ANY LINE AT ALL we are 2-0 right now and Ben has at least 10 beautiful play action passes to his name. They are wasting his career.

That's not what I saw out there tonight. Ben was throwing balls 10 yards over guys' heads all on his own. Pressure, no pressure, whatever, he was just winging it up there and nobody had a chance at it. I don't know whether that was his fault, or him being out of sync with the receivers, or what, but he seriously reminded me of Moonball Joe several times. The passing game was completely uninspired and nobody was executing. The line was the least of our problems.

86WARD
09-17-2013, 06:14 AM
Those who really want to trade Ben away are insane...lol.

zulater
09-17-2013, 06:28 AM
Those who really want to trade Ben away are insane...lol.

Really? Did you bother to read the OP?

Here's the jist of it since the meaning of it seems to have escaped you.

If this team is in fact as bad as it appears they are then you're looking at a 6-10 record or worse. This team doesn't appear to be a player or two away, they appear to be about 10 players away.This team is more than one draft away from being good again in my opinion. With that in mind do you rebuild around what will be an 11 year vet who probably wont have much left when you bring the over talent level back up to an acceptable rate? Or do you cash in that chip while it still might have some value, and hasten the rebuilding process with the value you gain in that trade?

zulater
09-17-2013, 06:40 AM
A little more as to why it's not insane to consider trading Ben. The life preserver we're all looking at to save this season is a 9 year veteran tight end coming off a complete knee reconstruction. Our playmaking safety is 11 years into his career. Our other starting safety is just as old, and gets banged up 4 or 5 times a game. Our best defensive lineman ( Keisel) will probably be gone next year. There is no quick fix to save this team. A top ten draft pick wont be enough to turn it around. This team wont be a viable Super Bowl contender again in Ben's career.

Want a viable trading partner? I'll give you two without giving it much thought. The Bengals and the Texans. When both make early exits from the playoffs despite having exceptional overall talent they'll probably see that their respective qb's are what are holding them back. Ben has taken 3 teams to the Super Bowl. There is still tread on the tires if you put him at the wheel of the right vehicle. That vehicle isn't in Pittsburgh anymore though.If he stays in Pittsburgh his career will continue in it's downward spiral and you'll probably end up releasing him after next season for salary cap concerns. Better to trade him a year early than wait until there's no return value.

zulater
09-17-2013, 06:57 AM
Offseason shopping list in no particular order.

1 or 2 offensive tackles. I see some hope with Adams, but not much with Gilbert. But neither are certain busts or players. If we're lucky one will be a viable starter going foward.

Eventual replacement for one or both * aging starting safeties. ( number dependent on Shamarko Thomas's development)

Big time Wide receiver. We got a bunch of 2's, 3's and 4's, you need that one go to guy that puts fear in the defense and takes the pressure of the rest of the group.

Inside linebacker to replace Foote.

Cornerback to replace Ike. Ike may still be a good player this year. But how many more years has he got left? Letting Keenan Lewis go was insane. And Gay is nothing more than a stopgap nickle back. So you need to add at least one more viable corner to the mix.

Replacement feature tight end for Heath Miller. Heath may make a full recovery this year, or maybe next. But even if he does he's on the back nine, and going foward you need to replace him soon.

Running back. Maybe Leveon is the answer? He'll get his chance soon, I'll guess we'll see?

But even more to the point who are your certainty's going forward? Who are the stud players for 2014 and beyond? Timmons? Even he's getting up there in years. Next year will be his 8th NFL season. Jarvis Jones maybe? Regardless, the point is this team seems to be more than one great draft away from being a Super Bowl contender in the remaining window of Big Ben's career.

Nadroj 20
09-17-2013, 07:01 AM
Really? Did you bother to read the OP?

Here's the jist of it since the meaning of it seems to have escaped you.

If this team is in fact as bad as it appears they are then you're looking at a 6-10 record or worse. This team doesn't appear to be a player or two away, they appear to be about 10 players away.This team is more than one draft away from being good again in my opinion. With that in mind do you rebuild around what will be an 11 year vet who probably wont have much left when you bring the over talent level back up to an acceptable rate? Or do you cash in that chip while it still might have some value, and hasten the rebuilding process with the value you gain in that trade?

On top of that how much longer is Ben going to last playing on a horrible team? This line could get him hurt.

I'm not saying we should do it, but it's not an insane idea by any means. Not sure how I feel on it exactly, but it's worth thinking about.

zulater
09-17-2013, 07:04 AM
On top of that how much longer is Ben going to last playing on a horrible team? This line could get him hurt.

Yep. That's the point. I'm not trying to discredit Ben. I still think he's a franchise qb on the right team. But I don't think this can be the right team anymore. There's too many holes and not enough patches to fix them. By the time this team has a viable overall roster again Ben will need a walker to get to the huddle.

86WARD
09-17-2013, 09:53 AM
Really? Did you bother to read the OP?

Here's the jist of it since the meaning of it seems to have escaped you.

If this team is in fact as bad as it appears they are then you're looking at a 6-10 record or worse. This team doesn't appear to be a player or two away, they appear to be about 10 players away.This team is more than one draft away from being good again in my opinion. With that in mind do you rebuild around what will be an 11 year vet who probably wont have much left when you bring the over talent level back up to an acceptable rate? Or do you cash in that chip while it still might have some value, and hasten the rebuilding process with the value you gain in that trade?

Yeah really...it's a dumb comment. With the way teams can turn around in the NFL...would be real smart to trade away a top-5 QB for what? 2 first round picks? Because the Steelers are sooooooo good at drafting...

Lol...great idea...

Nadroj 20
09-17-2013, 09:58 AM
Yeah really...it's a dumb comment. With the way teams can turn around in the NFL...would be real smart to trade away a top-5 QB for what? 2 first round picks? Because the Steelers are sooooooo good at drafting...

Lol...great idea...

So how exactly are we going to turn it around?

zulater
09-17-2013, 10:04 AM
Yeah really...it's a dumb comment. With the way teams can turn around in the NFL...would be real smart to trade away a top-5 QB for what? 2 first round picks? Because the Steelers are sooooooo good at drafting...

Lol...great idea...

Your's is a dumb response. Nothing more to add. :coffee:

- - - Updated - - -


So how exactly are we going to turn it around?

Apparently just ride Ben to the grave without significantly improving the team around him. Because you know the status quo is really working out so well.

And look folks, I love Ben. I'd love to see them improve the team around him to the point that we could be viable contenders again. But I don't see it happening in the window that is his remaining career as a top tier qb. I hope I'm wrong and the necessary "tweaks" can be implemented to turn things around with Ben as the qb.

86WARD
09-17-2013, 10:56 AM
So how exactly are we going to turn it around?

Trade Ben...duh...lol

The first thing I do is evaluate Velasco and see if he can be an above serviceable center. After that I either keep him or draft a Center that can start and move Pouncey to guard. Cut all the dead weight. Extend Ben, extend Heath and evaluate where they are with the cap. Then work on something with the Tackles and D-Line.

86WARD
09-17-2013, 10:58 AM
Your's is a dumb response. Nothing more to add. :coffee:


Oh the irony...lol.

I wouldn't expect more from you.

zulater
09-17-2013, 11:00 AM
Oh the irony...lol.

I wouldn't expect more from you.

Ditto.

You got a way to turn things around in Ben's career span? I'm all ears.

And oh yeah, since this is directed to 86, let me put in the obligatory lol that come with all his posts. lol

steel striker
09-17-2013, 06:27 PM
Edman Trade Ben? Have you lost your mind??? Every QB would struggle if they were on the steelers right now and, yes Rodgers, Manning, Brady and Brees would all struggle as well. You need time to throw the ball and, not rushing throws like last night. The WR's have not exactly been all that good either. As for Ben being a leader he said what a leader should say I need to play better not blaming others. Ben can't do it all! Much like the budweiser beer football commercial Leon can't do it all. I don't hear anybody saying crap when Ben runs around then throws a 50 yard TD. So chill.

Lambert_Loonie
09-17-2013, 10:01 PM
Might as well trade Heath too. He's not getting any younger. There's no guarantee he'll play like the Heath of old. If Ben deserves better, then doesn't Heath as well?

Seven
09-17-2013, 10:25 PM
Lol this is hilarious.

zulater
09-17-2013, 11:35 PM
Might as well trade Heath too. He's not getting any younger. There's no guarantee he'll play like the Heath of old. If Ben deserves better, then doesn't Heath as well?

Heath doesn't get derided by the fans like Ben does after every loss. Also Heath's ability to succeed hasn't been impaired by substandard play around him like Ben's has. So it's not the same. Not that you really care, as your sole intent was to take a jab at me.

86WARD
09-18-2013, 06:55 AM
Ditto.

You got a way to turn things around in Ben's career span? I'm all ears.

And oh yeah, since this is directed to 86, let me put in the obligatory lol that come with all his posts. lol

Maybe I could just put the dopey :coffee: smiley in for you...better?

:coffee:

Nadroj 20
09-18-2013, 08:09 AM
Edman Trade Ben? Have you lost your mind??? Every QB would struggle if they were on the steelers right now and, yes Rodgers, Manning, Brady and Brees would all struggle as well. You need time to throw the ball and, not rushing throws like last night. The WR's have not exactly been all that good either. As for Ben being a leader he said what a leader should say I need to play better not blaming others. Ben can't do it all! Much like the budweiser beer football commercial Leon can't do it all. I don't hear anybody saying crap when Ben runs around then throws a 50 yard TD. So chill.

You must not have read the OP because he doesn't want to trade ben because of poor play. He is saying that since we suck and may suck awhile, trade Ben to a contender and get good value out of him and begin the inevitable rebuilding process a little sooner.

Not at all because of Ben's play.

zulater
09-18-2013, 08:29 AM
Maybe I could just put the dopey :coffee: smiley in for you...better?

:coffee:

Or maybe you could just put me on ignore as I plan to do to you as soon as I post this reply. :coffee:

tube517
09-18-2013, 08:44 AM
Lol this is hilarious.

Lol

Sent from my SGH-I717 using Tapatalk 4

86WARD
09-18-2013, 09:06 AM
Or maybe you could just put me on ignore as I plan to do to you as soon as I post this reply. :coffee:

Good with me Sonnie Boy. But I won't ignore you. I enjoy reading your drivel. It's entertaining in an "over reaction" kind of way!

:coffee:

zulater
09-18-2013, 09:15 AM
Good with me Sonnie Boy. But I won't ignore you. I enjoy reading your drivel. It's entertaining in an "over reaction" kind of way!

:coffee:

Hey douchebag, don't call me sonnyboy, because I sure as fuck aint your son, and I'm no man's boy since my father died. .

mods, I'll edit when he does. I know Sonnyboy isn't a cuss word, but it's sure as hell a slur in the manner he used it. Talking down to me like I'm his fucking bitch.

zulater
09-18-2013, 10:18 AM
Just for clarification. Ben is about my favorite Steelers in the last 20 years. Not so much on a personal level. Don't get me wrong I think he's a good guy who had some issues, but has grown out of them, for the most part. ( he could keep his injuries and illnesses a little more quite) but because I'm a football fan who enjoys outstanding qb play. And Ben has been and still is an outstanding qb. Having seen some great overall Steelers teams die on the vine because of inept qb play in the playoffs (94-7, 2001-2) I can't tell you how much I appreciate how much he's meant to this team. So I guess I can get a little thin skinned about all the criticism that Ben receives from the media and fans alike, especially when it's coming from Steelers fans. Among the things I've heard over the years is that Ben was carried by the running game and defense for the first two years of his career. This being supported by the small number of pass attempts he had those year relative to the league average. Anyway what those people don't recognize is that Ben did the majority of his passing at the beginning of the game, staking the Steelers to leads, and then allowing the running game and defense to finish it out. The myth that he inherited this world beating team also is at odds with reality.The team he inherited was coming off a 6-10 season, struggled mightily to put away a bad Raider team in the 04 season opener, and absolutely got clocked at Baltimore in the second game. In other word with ordinary qb play it wasn't going to be any sort of season to remember. Maybe an 8 or 9 win year was in store had Maddox kept the job.To anyone who watched those next 13 games in 2004 start to finish Ben was the catalyst. The straw that stirred the drink. 15-1 was because Ben changed the equation.

Fast forward to 2005 and people forget the only reason the Steelers didn't win the division that year was because Ben suffered a knee injury that kept him out of 3 games and then left him rusty when he returned for the first few games back. When Ben was fully healthy the Steelers were indeed as good as any team in the league. Then of course Ben put up a bad passer rating in Super Bowl XL, so of course the pundits discredited him for that win. Never mind that he was brilliant throughout the AFC playoffs, what did they think the Steelers got to Detroit by invitation? And beside Ben wasn't nearly as bad in the Super Bowl as his passer rating suggests. For one thing Hines Ward dropped a ball in the end zone when he was wide open on one play. That play alone would have move his passer rating up over 50 pts. But that aside Ben was tight that day and didn't throw the ball with his normal accuracy or confidence. On the one interception if he puts a little more air under the ball it's an easy touchdown. Ben makes that throw in his sleep on normal days, but he obviously felt the pressure a little. ( there's such a thing as a play being too wide open, this was a case in point) Anyway what the passing stats don't tell you is that Ben made the plays that had to be made at the end of the game to seal the victory. With his arm and legs he converted crucial third downs that enabled the Steelers to run out the clock and keep the Seahwaks offense on the sidelines. This is never noticed.

Moving on Ben's put up some great numbers and led the Steelers to some very good seasons. He should have been MVP in SB XLIII. Virtually any other qb in the league would have won the award with the same performance. Hell many a qb won the award playing significantly worse. ( in nasal whiny voice... "Eli's won the Super Bowl MVP twice, so he's a better qb than Ben") Shit like this gets to me. :frusty:

Going forward of course Ben had his off the field issues where he was pummeled and convicted by the press, the NFL, and the public. Then he comes back plays a brilliant 12 game season and leads the Steelers to another Super Bowl. But of course he and the team came up short. And now a two time Super Bowl champion, 3 time AFC Champion, is considered barely above average, and somehow he's held to blame for virtually every sack and the lack of a Steelers running game? Look I know a qb has a lot in his control with pre-snap reads, finding his hot, and getting rid of the ball etc.. And there's no question that Ben holds onto the ball too long at times trying to make a play. But of course he often does make those plays and for the majority of his career the good has outweighed the bad to such an extent that few with a brain or football sense questioned his decision making in that sense. And besides I don't think many people outside of Pittsburgh truly appreciate how bad the pass blocking has been over the last few seasons. As I already mentioned I understand a qb has ways to make his o-line look better than it is, but when your pocket collapses before the end of your drop, when two of your linemen get beat clean off the snap, no pre snap read is going to save you every time. That's been Ben's world.

And now for the last few seasons the line has gotten even worse, the running game is virtually non- existent, his wide receivers ( since Ward left) are immature and selfish, and he lost his safety net, with Heath Miller's injury. So now Ben's a dope and/ or over the hill according to many. So again this pisses me off, and in frustration feeling fairly sure that Ben;s current circumstances are weighing him down there's a part of me who would love to see him put in a better overall quarterback environment so he could shove it squarely up his critics and naysayers collective asses.

So now you know the basis of this thread. Approve or not? I don't care, writing it out was cathartic. So no I don't really want Ben traded. Hopefully Heath Miller can stablize the offense and Ben can go on and lead the Steelers to a few more successful seasons before he moves on to Canton. Peace out! :peace:

Moose
09-18-2013, 10:20 AM
Monday nights game wasn't that much of a blow out. The game I watched could have went either way. All the talk of the bungholes being the team to beat this season, we hung with them pretty good until the end. We were a bad call, a fumble, and an interception from winning, then we wouldn't be having this conversation. Let's give these young player's a chance to get into the real game timing, the professional standard (not college) of football, and see what they pan out to. I agree we don't look real good right now, but it's only the 2nd game of the season. I'm one of those fans that believes every game is a must win ( only a 16 game season) especially division games, but I think most of us knew we weren't winning a SB this year. Tenn. game was disgraceful true, but I think we bounced back somewhat at cincy and came close to pulling it out. I think the Bear's game will tell us more of what this team is made of and we can start looking at what the season may end up being. I'm not a big Ben fan, but I don't think I'm ready to throw him away yet. I like our backups, but at this stage it's better to have the experience at QB. I still think we can win 6/7 games this year. Hopefully we will be the 'spoilers' for the bungholes when they come to the 'burgh. Or maybe the ratbirds. GO STEELERS

86WARD
09-18-2013, 11:45 AM
Hey douchebag, don't call me sonnyboy, because I sure as fuck aint your son, and I'm no man's boy since my father died. .

mods, I'll edit when he does. I know Sonnyboy isn't a cuss word, but it's sure as hell a slur in the manner he used it. Talking down to me like I'm his fucking bitch.

1. Far from a slur. Very far.
2. There is no intention of using it as a slur...I've never heard of such a thing...LOL
3. Not talking down to anyone...however you do it on a daily basis so...it's okay then...
4. Not the place to discuss.
5. I thought you were ignoring me?
6. :coffee:

zulater
09-18-2013, 03:00 PM
1. Far from a slur. Very far.
2. There is no intention of using it as a slur...I've never heard of such a thing...LOL
3. Not talking down to anyone...however you do it on a daily basis so...it's okay then...
4. Not the place to discuss.
5. I thought you were ignoring me?
6. :coffee:


When you have some on ignore there's a box with the option to view an individual post. Since I was interested in how you would respond to my post I chose to view this particular post.

As far as your claim that Sonny Boy wasn't used in a derogatory manner, tell you what. Go to your nearest bar, find a dude you don't know, get in a heated discussion with him, ( sports, politics, religion, whatever,) call him "Sonny Boy" at some point in the argument and see if you don't get punched in the face.

As to me speaking down to anyone, I give tit for tat. I rarely if ever fire the opening salvo. You can disagree with me my all you want, but if you marginalize my view, and get personal about it while doing so I'll come back the same.

Master Blaster
09-18-2013, 03:31 PM
Getting rid of Ben is not the answer, no matter how you spin it.

Craic
09-18-2013, 03:39 PM
Getting rid of Ben is not the answer, no matter how you spin it.

Not reading the OP or understanding what Zu is saying doesn't provide for a good answer. Period. Zu isn't saying getting rid of Ben is the answer. Far from it. He's actually begging for Ben to be released from what he considers a bad team so that Ben can go on to enjoy a better career somewhere else.

I think it's a shortsighted statement, but that's what he's saying.

Master Blaster
09-18-2013, 07:13 PM
Not reading the OP or understanding what Zu is saying doesn't provide for a good answer. Period. Zu isn't saying getting rid of Ben is the answer. Far from it. He's actually begging for Ben to be released from what he considers a bad team so that Ben can go on to enjoy a better career somewhere else.

I think it's a shortsighted statement, but that's what he's saying.
Back off. I don't need your smug, self righteous and arrogant ass to interpret what Zu's intention is. I've corresponded with him in a different site for years.

st33lersguy
09-18-2013, 07:15 PM
If we trade Ben, who do we put at QB to get killed by a lack of blocking

Craic
09-18-2013, 07:37 PM
Getting rid of Ben is not the answer, no matter how you spin it.


Not reading the OP or understanding what Zu is saying doesn't provide for a good answer. Period. Zu isn't saying getting rid of Ben is the answer. Far from it. He's actually begging for Ben to be released from what he considers a bad team so that Ben can go on to enjoy a better career somewhere else.

I think it's a shortsighted statement, but that's what he's saying.


Back off. I don't need your smug, self righteous and arrogant ass to interpret what Zu's intention is. I've corresponded with him in a different site for years.

Guess I shouldn't answer tone for tone, eh? There's no interpretation of Zu's intention. He lays it out very clearly in the OP, and again in another post. He doesn't want to get rid of Ben because he thinks that's the answer.

Oh, and I'm very glad you don't need "my ass." You'd be disappointed since I'm married and don't swing that way, though I never knew that my ass could actually interpret something. Hmm, interesting.

Craic
09-18-2013, 07:45 PM
If we trade Ben, who do we put at QB to get killed by a lack of blocking

Reminds me of this: Start at :27
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJkHm2WtSsk

zulater
09-18-2013, 07:49 PM
Getting rid of Ben is not the answer, no matter how you spin it.

It could be if this season continues to derail, and there doesn't look to be any sign of improvement as things go on. Particularly if Ben keeps getting beat around like a pinata. If at the end of a 5 win or less season the Steelers decide they need to go into a total rebuilding mode do you then build your team around an 11 year veteran who's been beat to hell for 3 straight years? And who knows, if they end up with a top 5 pick maybe there's a future franchise qb sitting there? Do you really want Ben to mentor his successor? I'm not even sure he would?

This is not what I want to happen, but right now you just have to wait and see where this season goes and play it accordingly in the offseason. At this point I don't think any option can be completely removed from the table.
\

Dwinsgames
09-18-2013, 07:54 PM
It could be if this season continues to derail, and there doesn't look to be any sign of improvement as things go on. Particularly if Ben keeps getting beat around like a pinata. If at the end of a 5 win or less season the Steelers decide they need to go into a total rebuilding mode do yiou then build your team around an 11 year veteran who's been beat to hell for 3 straight years? And who knows, if they end up with a top 5 pick maybe there's a future franchise qb sitting there? Do you really want Ben to mentor his succssor ? I'm not even siure he would?

This is not what I want to happen, but right now yiou just have ti wait and see where this season goes and play if accordingly in the offseason. At this point I don't think any option can be completely removed from the table.
\


Zu , are you drunk ?

if so fine ....

But I have known you what now 10-12 years ?

I have NEVER seen so many typos in 1 post from you in all those years ( none even close ) ...

if your drinking thats cool have one for me too !!

not trying to pick your post apart based on grammar ( I would be the last one to even try that ) just wondering is all LOL it is so out of character is all

zulater
09-18-2013, 07:55 PM
Zu , are you drunk ?

if so fine ....

But I have known you what now 10-12 years ?

I have NEVER seen so many typos in 1 post from you in all those years ( none even close ) ...

if your drinking thats cool have one for me too !!

All been edited out now. :lol: New Chrome notebook my wife just got me that I'm trying to get used to. Keyboard is a little smaller than I'm used to.

Dwinsgames
09-18-2013, 07:57 PM
All been edited out now. :lol: New Chrome notebook my wife just got me that I'm trying to get used to. Keyboard is a little smaller than I'm used to.


congrats on the new Notebook , hope it is a swift transition LOL

Count Steeler
09-18-2013, 07:57 PM
Zu , are you drunk ?

if so fine ....

But I have known you what now 10-12 years ?

I have NEVER seen so many typos in 1 post from you in all those years ( none even close ) ...

if your drinking thats cool have one for me too !!

not trying to pick your post apart based on grammar ( I would be the last one to even try that ) just wondering is all LOL it is so out of character is all

Probably using a tablet for the first time. :chuckle:

Craic
09-18-2013, 07:59 PM
All been edited out now. :lol: New Chrome notebook my wife just got me that I'm trying to get used to. Keyboard is a little smaller than I'm used to.

:chuckle: I tried to respond once on a tablet... never again! Hope you enjoy your notebook!

zulater
09-18-2013, 08:04 PM
congrats on the new Notebook , hope it is a swift transition LOL


She only got it for me so she could get on the home p.c. occasionally. :chuckle:

Shoes
09-18-2013, 08:05 PM
If we trade Ben, who do we put at QB to get killed by a lack of blocking

Mike Tomlin. :chuckle:

Master Blaster
09-18-2013, 08:09 PM
Guess I shouldn't answer tone for tone, eh? There's no interpretation of Zu's intention. He lays it out very clearly in the OP, and again in another post. He doesn't want to get rid of Ben because he thinks that's the answer.

Oh, and I'm very glad you don't need "my ass." You'd be disappointed since I'm married and don't swing that way, though I never knew that my ass could actually interpret something. Hmm, interesting.
I know what his intention was. I stated my opinion. End of discussion.

Craic
09-18-2013, 10:59 PM
I know what his intention was. I stated my opinion. End of discussion.

Of course, the thread moved on from that point, so by posting to state "end of discussion," you actually furthered it.

86WARD
09-19-2013, 08:18 PM
When you have some on ignore there's a box with the option to view an individual post. Since I was interested in how you would respond to my post I chose to view this particular post.

As far as your claim that Sonny Boy wasn't used in a derogatory manner, tell you what. Go to your nearest bar, find a dude you don't know, get in a heated discussion with him, ( sports, politics, religion, whatever,) call him "Sonny Boy" at some point in the argument and see if you don't get punched in the face.

As to me speaking down to anyone, I give tit for tat. I rarely if ever fire the opening salvo. You can disagree with me my all you want, but if you marginalize my view, and get personal about it while doing so I'll come back the same.

Actually do it on a daily basis believe it or not and haven't been struck yet. Stop being over sensitive...it's not a derogatory comment. I wouldn't really bother with personally attacking you. As you can see from my history here, I've never gotten into name calling with anyone here.

But anyway...like I originally said: Anyone who really wants to trade Ben away...insane. It would be a move Cleveland would make.

zulater
09-19-2013, 08:31 PM
Actually do it on a daily basis believe it or not and haven't been struck yet. Stop being over sensitive...it's not a derogatory comment. I wouldn't really bother with personally attacking you. As you can see from my history here, I've never gotten into name calling with anyone here.

But anyway...like I originally said: Anyone who really wants to trade Ben away...insane. It would be a move Cleveland would make.

Say we go 4-12 ish. Ben is sacked nearly 50 times, and gets hurt again and misses some starts for the 3rd straight year. And say the offense stays in the bottom 5 of the league for yards and points. What do you think's going to happen? Think Troy's back? The Beard? Clark? LeBeau? Heath? There's going to be a house cleaning if things don't turn around. Ben will be going into his 11th season next year. You really go to start a rebuilding project around an 11 year veteran who gets hurt every year? And what if we're in position to draft a can't miss quarterback? You passing on him or making him sit behind "mentor Ben" for a couple years? Now that really would be insane.

Lambert_Loonie
09-19-2013, 11:59 PM
Okay, I've had a little more time to think this scenario through. To quote "The Million Dollar Man" Ted Dibiase, everyone's got a price. Even Ben. And if you've got a trade partner that's willing to pay that price (whatever that price may be in your mind), you're telling me you wouldn't make the deal?
I have a few questions for Zu, just so I have an idea for how well you have this thought out.
- You've put Ben on the trading block. What EXACTLY do you want in return?
- What team(s) in the NFL do you think would be the most ideal trading partners? How likely would it be for them to give you what you want for Ben?
- What do you do at the quarterback position? Is there a college QB that you're really high on that you want to draft? Make a deal for a young #2 like Ryan Mallet or Kirk Cousins? Plug in a stop-gap like Jason Campbell? Or do you think Landry Jones is someone who could taker over and be the quarterback for the next 7-10 years?
- What do you do with Todd Haley?

zulater
09-20-2013, 05:22 AM
Okay, I've had a little more time to think this scenario through. To quote "The Million Dollar Man" Ted Dibiase, everyone's got a price. Even Ben. And if you've got a trade partner that's willing to pay that price (whatever that price may be in your mind), you're telling me you wouldn't make the deal?
I have a few questions for Zu, just so I have an idea for how well you have this thought out.
- You've put Ben on the trading block. What EXACTLY do you want in return?
- What team(s) in the NFL do you think would be the most ideal trading partners? How likely would it be for them to give you what you want for Ben?
- What do you do at the quarterback position? Is there a college QB that you're really high on that you want to draft? Make a deal for a young #2 like Ryan Mallet or Kirk Cousins? Plug in a stop-gap like Jason Campbell? Or do you think Landry Jones is someone who could taker over and be the quarterback for the next 7-10 years?
- What do you do with Todd Haley?

First off let me repeat I want things to straighten out in PGH so there's no need to consider trading Ben. And by straighten out I don't have any specific record in mind, by what needs to happen is that this team has got to start showing some semblance of offensive continuity, something tangible that can be taken into next year.

In a worst case scenario, what we've seen these last couple games plays out through the entire season. The offense is in such shatters that a complete overhaul becomes necessary, then at that point I look t trade Ben.

As to potential trade partners, I've already mentioned two earlier in the thread. But to repeat, the Texans and the Bengals are two that would fit the profile of a team that's a legitimate qb away from being a legitimate Super Bowl threat. Through in the Vikings too. All three of these teams have good overall talent and could compete for a Super Bowl with Ben. All the aforementioned are just spinning their wheels with their current qb's imo. Another early playoff flame out this year by the Texans and Bengals and I think that will be evident to them.

As to compensation. I guess it all depends on what sort of season Ben finishes up with, and what the state of his health is. Even a beat up Ben should get you back a 1st rounder +. What that plus is is dependent on all sort of factors. So it's impossible to quantify.

As to our future qb ( were it to come to that) if you finish with a bad enough record this season maybe he's there waiting for you in next year's draft? If you trade Ben early enough perhaps you can package a deal to insure that you can get a chance to draft a future star qb?

And no I don't want any parts of a Jason Cambell type qb. I'd go with Grabowski and Landry first.

Look sometimes you have to be really bad for a few years before you can be really good again. Maybe that's where things are going? But if you are that bad, don't build around an 11 year vet. That's all I'm saying.

Pristas
09-21-2013, 09:31 PM
On a side note, if a crazy ass trade were to happen, which it won't, it would be cool to see Ben go to Arizona and tear up the league with Fitz.

X-Terminator
09-21-2013, 09:38 PM
Yes, this thread is the reason why I've been away for the past 5 days.

I'm really starting to hate football and football fans.

Pristas
09-21-2013, 10:00 PM
Yes, this thread is the reason why I've been away for the past 5 days.

I'm really starting to hate football and football fans.

I know, seriously, right? Most people wishing this to happen look more like Browns management! Trade your best player. LOL!

Ben will retire a Steeler. The one thing that has been seriously overlooked is the value we have gotten in this years draft. Jarvis Jones, starter. Bell, would-be starter. Marcus Wheaton, I'll bet he starts this week. Sharko, I don't know if he started, but he played a lot last game. Vince Williams, starter? Again, he played a ton. That's five guys out of 22 (offense and defense) that came from 2013 draft!!! Read that again and let it soak in. Colbert may have nailed this one. Heck, these are 5 guys who should be considerably better in year 2. We may be looking at all upside from here out. The o line, I though played pretty well last game. Yeah, there were sacks and hurries, but Ben was holding the ball for ages, until he threw the ball to Cotchery for a drive killing drop.

We could very well surprise the the Bears. Heck, we've even had decent pressure on the QB. And our corner backs have been amazing. Thanks Ike. Looks like we get Cortez, Bell and Heath back in a week or so. What's not to like? This team could be one of those sleeper teams like the Giants who nailed it for a SuperBowl after starting 8-8 or 9-7. Time will tell, but I'm not throwing in the towel yet. There's still plenty of terrible left in it.

zulater
09-21-2013, 10:16 PM
Yes, this thread is the reason why I've been away for the past 5 days.

I'm really starting to hate football and football fans.

Hypocrite much? Go read through the Penguin and Pirate thread's and then tell us how you're so much above it all!

It's funny how on this board if you question anything Tomlin does you're a reactionary moron. Meanwhile XT here demands the head of Dan Blysma on a regular basis. Well compare resume's dude.

And yeah I know this thread is about Ben, but anyone with reading comprehension can see it's not an anti Ben rant. Hell it's not even an anti Steelers diatribe. All it does is bring up the very real possibility that this team might not be a viable Super Bowl contender again in what's left of Ben's prime years. It also deals with the possibility that Ben's prime years are in danger of being severely shortened if this team doesn't do a better job of putting some real talent around him soon. And gives some thought about what you might do about it if things don't look as if they can be repaired quick enough.

So if you want to put your head's in the sand and whistle through the graveyard and pretend everything will just be fine as long as you don't look hard enough, by my guest.

But I'm not going to.

One last thing.

Peyton Manning, John Unitas, Joe Montana, Joe Namath, and Brett Favre.

Guess what these qb's have in common?

Lambert_Loonie
09-22-2013, 01:50 AM
As to potential trade partners, I've already mentioned two earlier in the thread. But to repeat, the Texans and the Bengals are two that would fit the profile of a team that's a legitimate qb away from being a legitimate Super Bowl threat. Through in the Vikings too. All three of these teams have good overall talent and could compete for a Super Bowl with Ben. All the aforementioned are just spinning their wheels with their current qb's imo. Another early playoff flame out this year by the Texans and Bengals and I think that will be evident to them.

Minnesota I'll give you, and in all reality you may get the best draft picks in return. Houston I don't see biting because their front office looks to be committed to Matt Schaub for the long haul (and just as well, I feel like I'm the only man on Earth who doesn't hate Matt Schaub. What does he do so wrong? What are his warts? No, he's not a top 6 elite quarterback but he's lightyears from Blaine Gabbert territory). Cincinnati... No. Just no. You just don't trade inside the division (UNLESS you're 110% that he has absolutely nothing left in the tank, a la Donovan McNabb getting traded to the Redskins, or you trade him to Cleveland where they could start an All-Pro team and still wind up 4-12).


As to our future qb ( were it to come to that) if you finish with a bad enough record this season maybe he's there waiting for you in next year's draft? If you trade Ben early enough perhaps you can package a deal to insure that you can get a chance to draft a future star qb?

And no I don't want any parts of a Jason Cambell type qb. I'd go with Grabowski and Landry first.

Who is he? He who? You're pitching trading the face of the franchise for nearly the last decade and there isn't anyone on your radar to replace Ben Roethlisberger with? You mentioned Peyton Manning later on, but do you think the Colts would've dumped him if they didn't have Andrew Luck practically waiting for them? Do you think the Packers would've dumped Brett Favre if they weren't sure what they were getting with Aaron Rodgers? You're not going to sell the idea of trading Ben Roethlisberger to anyone if you don't have anybody to replace him in mind.


Look sometimes you have to be really bad for a few years before you can be really good again. Maybe that's where things are going? But if you are that bad, don't build around an 11 year vet. That's all I'm saying.

I won't argue that point with you. Frankly, I've been "doomsday prepping" since 2011. Bring on 5-11. Rip the band-aid off. Get it over with. Everybody's number gets called eventually. It's happened with every great team. If this franchise has proven anything, it's that it's resilient. It rebuilds and bounces back like nobody else. I can handle 2-3 down years if it means an 8-9 year run on top, which I firmly believe will happen. Look at the trends. Pittsburgh's been the most successful team since the merger for a reason.

I don't disagree with the premise, Zu. I think we agree more than we disagree on this topic. But you have to give me more than "Trade Ben and hope for the best." You need something more detailed and planned out than that.

zulater
09-22-2013, 06:23 AM
Minnesota I'll give you, and in all reality you may get the best draft picks in return. Houston I don't see biting because their front office looks to be committed to Matt Schaub for the long haul (and just as well, I feel like I'm the only man on Earth who doesn't hate Matt Schaub. What does he do so wrong? What are his warts? No, he's not a top 6 elite quarterback but he's lightyears from Blaine Gabbert territory). Cincinnati... No. Just no. You just don't trade inside the division (UNLESS you're 110% that he has absolutely nothing left in the tank, a la Donovan McNabb getting traded to the Redskins, or you trade him to Cleveland where they could start an All-Pro team and still wind up 4-12).



Who is he? He who? You're pitching trading the face of the franchise for nearly the last decade and there isn't anyone on your radar to replace Ben Roethlisberger with? You mentioned Peyton Manning later on, but do you think the Colts would've dumped him if they didn't have Andrew Luck practically waiting for them? Do you think the Packers would've dumped Brett Favre if they weren't sure what they were getting with Aaron Rodgers? You're not going to sell the idea of trading Ben Roethlisberger to anyone if you don't have anybody to replace him in mind.



I won't argue that point with you. Frankly, I've been "doomsday prepping" since 2011. Bring on 5-11. Rip the band-aid off. Get it over with. Everybody's number gets called eventually. It's happened with every great team. If this franchise has proven anything, it's that it's resilient. It rebuilds and bounces back like nobody else. I can handle 2-3 down years if it means an 8-9 year run on top, which I firmly believe will happen. Look at the trends. Pittsburgh's been the most successful team since the merger for a reason.

I don't disagree with the premise, Zu. I think we agree more than we disagree on this topic. But you have to give me more than "Trade Ben and hope for the best." You need something more detailed and planned out than that.

First thanks for the respectful answer. But let me respectfully disagree with your last sentence. I don't, because I'm not interviewing to be Colbert's successor. Nor am I member of the working media, who would have some obligation to provide such an answer (perhaps?) upon laying out this premise. I'm just a guy on a message board who's pointing at the smoldering embers of what he believes could turn out to be a full fledged forest fire if the wind blows the wrong way.


There are posters on this board who could give you some names to target if you decide to move on from Ben, but my football knowledge is very myopic and Steeler-centric, so I'm not one of them.

At this point I think I'll retire from this thread, and possibly give consideration to retiring from the board? If my posting is so upsetting to people then I guess maybe I need to find a different outlet to voice my opinion's?

steel striker
09-22-2013, 07:09 AM
Zu,So after two games you are just going to throw the season away? Let's see if the o-line can get it together and, Ben & WR's plus Heath Miller can turn this thing around. You want to get rid of Ben who by the way is the best QB we have had here since Bradshaw? I say put the ball in Ben's hands and, let the chips fall where they will. It would be insane to trade Ben but, hey everyone has their own thoughts about this. Ben makes up for alot of the short comings of the o-line makes plays out of nothing half of the time. Have some faith Zu!

Nadroj 20
09-22-2013, 09:54 AM
Zu,So after two games you are just going to throw the season away? Let's see if the o-line can get it together and, Ben & WR's plus Heath Miller can turn this thing around. You want to get rid of Ben who by the way is the best QB we have had here since Bradshaw? I say put the ball in Ben's hands and, let the chips fall where they will. It would be insane to trade Ben but, hey everyone has their own thoughts about this. Ben makes up for alot of the short comings of the o-line makes plays out of nothing half of the time. Have some faith Zu!

I'm sure Zu would change his tune if the Steelers do turn it around. That's why he said at the END of the season. Not right now.

zulater
09-22-2013, 05:49 PM
I'm sure Zu would change his tune if the Steelers do turn it around. That's why he said at the END of the season. Not right now.

I'm not initiating anymore negative threads or adding to others negative thoughts in any way except for on the game day threads. (maybe) From now on I'm going to be little Mary Sunshine. Apparently cheerleading is the only way a good Steeler fan is supposed to post.

zulater
09-22-2013, 08:04 PM
Just remember folks it's me that's causing your aggravation, not the Steelers play.

zulater
09-24-2013, 09:09 AM
Not to beat a dead horse, but it was suggested to me that Ben may not even be tradeable with his salary number as it is? Also the perception around the league might be that Ben is tough to coach, and no coach is going to endorse trading for a potential coach killer. And there's also a lot of thought that Ben's best days are behind him, that the high risk freewheeling style that worked for him so well for his first 9 seasons wont work anymore as a beat up 11 year veteran. And that Ben can't function properly in a normal offense.

It's not what I think, I think Ben is a very good quarterback from the pocket, I think he can excel in a structured offense that has surrounding talent. But the perception around the league seems to be gravitating away from that view. So trading him might prove easier said than done.

So in essence what I'm now saying is that hopefully this team doesn't need a complete reconstruction and we can retool this offense and get back on track next season, if not before.

Dwinsgames
09-24-2013, 09:16 AM
24 million ( dead cap money ) reasons to NOT consider it .......

but he is over paid ( as are lots of QBs ) handcuffing the rest of the team

we have far to much money invested in a handful of players , I would prefer the talent be more balanced team wide instead of a few " supposed " super stars getting the bulk of the cap money leaving us talent and depth deprived in many other areas

TomlinSteelTribe
09-26-2013, 10:38 AM
24 million ( dead cap money ) reasons to NOT consider it .......

but he is over paid ( as are lots of QBs ) handcuffing the rest of the team

we have far to much money invested in a handful of players , I would prefer the talent be more balanced team wide instead of a few " supposed " super stars getting the bulk of the cap money leaving us talent and depth deprived in many other areas

Yep, this.

Completely agree but it's hard to keep the money spread. The FO should be looking at whether they are "getting their money's worth." Not so sure they are with BR7 and Woodley. Ben is a free agent in 2016. 3 more years on his remaining deal. If someone offered a trade that compensated the Steelers as though Ben were a top-7 qb, I'd take it in a heartbeat. And I'm not a quick to pull the trigger type dude. 2 rings. Nuff said. But I don't see it happening for him/us again. He's not getting any better but will be a good qb for some team.

The age old, whose fault is it: Ben's or the OLine's? That's really a chicken or the egg question. I only watched the Cincy and Chi games once each, but I don't think the OL lost either of those games for us. The OL was certainly the glaring weakness/mismatch going into the game vs the Cincy DL and I thought they held their own. Ben would get sacked often no matter where he plays. You can't ask an OL to consistently protect for 5+ seconds each dropback. And yet, because Ben can make big plays after everything has broken down, people expect the OL to provide such a cushion of time. The best qbs in the league would be absolutely fine with our OL. They might not be in paradise but they would still put up the numbers and win.

steeldawg
09-26-2013, 04:18 PM
Yep, this.

Completely agree but it's hard to keep the money spread. The FO should be looking at whether they are "getting their money's worth." Not so sure they are with BR7 and Woodley. Ben is a free agent in 2016. 3 more years on his remaining deal. If someone offered a trade that compensated the Steelers as though Ben were a top-7 qb, I'd take it in a heartbeat. And I'm not a quick to pull the trigger type dude. 2 rings. Nuff said. But I don't see it happening for him/us again. He's not getting any better but will be a good qb for some team.

The age old, whose fault is it: Ben's or the OLine's? That's really a chicken or the egg question. I only watched the Cincy and Chi games once each, but I don't think the OL lost either of those games for us. The OL was certainly the glaring weakness/mismatch going into the game vs the Cincy DL and I thought they held their own. Ben would get sacked often no matter where he plays. You can't ask an OL to consistently protect for 5+ seconds each dropback. And yet, because Ben can make big plays after everything has broken down, people expect the OL to provide such a cushion of time. The best qbs in the league would be absolutely fine with our OL. They might not be in paradise but they would still put up the numbers and win.

I disagree the pocket is collapsing on every play, there are bodies all around ben that's why we see him bumping into running backs in the backfield. I have the nfl ticket and I watch every game there is a noticeable difference when you watch our o-line, they are on their heels, they cant handle simple twists and stunts, and they miss assignments frequently leaving free runners at our qb. I watched manning Monday night vs. Oakland and peyton manning could do his taxes in the pocket. Aaron Rodgers, Tom brady, Matt Stafford, Drew brees, Phillip Rivers, Romo, even cutler get nice pockets to throw from. I understand teams are going to get pressure but on every play its just ridiculous. Its not Ben who needs to get better, Its the o-line that needs to improve and then ben will settle in.

zulater
10-07-2013, 08:22 AM
As I said before, if the situation never improves this season and if it's decided that a full rebuilding is necessary, then I don't see why you wouldn't trade Ben if you could make the right deal? The Steelers need help at safety, linebacker, offensive tackle, need to find Heath Miller's eventual replacement, need help at receiver, need a guard to replace Foster. Look at the talent on other NFL teams. Then look at the Steelers roster. Too many holes to fill in one or even two drafts without doing something out of the ordinary. You don't build a team around an 11 year veteran.

Anyway I do hope this season gets better, some of the players that look like zero's start to play like hero's, and you can make another legitimate run with Ben as soon as next year. But if that looks virtually impossible then again trading Ben would make sense.

And as I said earlier in the thread there's two places that make perfect sense as landing spots for Ben. Texas and Cincy are a legitimate qb from being real Super Bowl contenders. They will both be one and done in the playoffs again this year. They would trade a small King's ransom for an elite qb who can get them over the top.

HollywoodSteel
10-07-2013, 01:15 PM
I disagree the pocket is collapsing on every play, there are bodies all around ben that's why we see him bumping into running backs in the backfield. I have the nfl ticket and I watch every game there is a noticeable difference when you watch our o-line, they are on their heels, they cant handle simple twists and stunts, and they miss assignments frequently leaving free runners at our qb. I watched manning Monday night vs. Oakland and peyton manning could do his taxes in the pocket. Aaron Rodgers, Tom brady, Matt Stafford, Drew brees, Phillip Rivers, Romo, even cutler get nice pockets to throw from. I understand teams are going to get pressure but on every play its just ridiculous. Its not Ben who needs to get better, Its the o-line that needs to improve and then ben will settle in.

Why do you think Peyton Manning can do his taxes in the pocket? Because of the talent they have at LT? Their talented LT is out for the year and they didn't miss a beat with a no name back up. If that isn't the biggest argument that coaching and QB play (and the way that QB makes you practice) aren't the real difference here then I don't know how to convince anyone.

steeldawg
10-07-2013, 04:05 PM
Why do you think Peyton Manning can do his taxes in the pocket? Because of the talent they have at LT? Their talented LT is out for the year and they didn't miss a beat with a no name back up. If that isn't the biggest argument that coaching and QB play (and the way that QB makes you practice) aren't the real difference here then I don't know how to convince anyone.

I think their o-line is better coached than ours, I don't think it has anything to do with ben making them or not making them practice.

HollywoodSteel
10-07-2013, 04:24 PM
I think their o-line is better coached than ours, I don't think it has anything to do with ben making them or not making them practice.

Okay, well we are definitely in agreement then. The point is that it has less to do about the FO and how money is spent than it has to do with making use of the guys we have through good coaching. Is Chris Clark a more talented lineman than Mike Adams? I have no idea if he always was, but he sure as hell is better now.

I only added the bit about Manning because I'm sure he adds to the good coaching over there, and there is no way he enters a game without doing all he can to make sure his blockers know what they are doing. I'm not saying Ben should be Manning (although I'm sure he could learn a thing or two from the guy about how to help the people around him be as prepared as possible, but then again so could about 29 other QBs in the league).

Chin05
10-07-2013, 04:32 PM
has ben lost his magic for good or is it just because the line/weapons/play calls are poor??

No magic lost in Ben.. only thing lost is protection! As a QB you can't have your front 5 falling into your lap. Pick any QB in the league and stand him in the Pittsburgh pocket and see how he'd perform with our O/L. If we can get that damn monkey off our back @ the Jets this week we will move forward and win some games!

zulater
11-03-2013, 07:03 PM
This team wont have another winning season in Ben's career. The smart move would be to trade him this offseason and start anew. Better for the Steelers in the long run and better for Ben. We need to blow this team up top to bottom and if you don't take away your biggest salary cap drag everything else you do is meaningless.

Count Steeler
11-03-2013, 07:06 PM
I agree with this now Zu. Time to stockpile as many draft picks as possible and shed all the dead money off our books. Rookies and 1st contract players for the next 3-4 years.

zulater
11-03-2013, 07:25 PM
I agree with this now Zu. Time to stockpile as many draft picks as possible and shed all the dead money off our books. Rookies and 1st contract players for the next 3-4 years.

Honestly I'd rather keep Ben. But the only way this team has a chance to compete for anything in the remainder of Ben's career is if they fire Tomlin. Which they wont do. So might as well trade Ben and let Tomlin create the team in his image and suck for the next 5 years.

zulater
11-15-2013, 01:16 PM
He deserves better than what this organization can give him.

Seriously this team is going to be bad for a long time. Need a full rebuilding and a different construction team.

Anyway after your 3-13 season get what you can for him, because you'll never be a contender in his career span again.

I had it first. Not saying this is a certainty, but if you think this is off the table completely you're only kidding yourself.

Seven
11-15-2013, 09:51 PM
I had it first. Not saying this is a certainty, but if you think this is off the table completely you're only kidding yourself.

I don't think it's completely off the table, but it would be incredibly stupid. Let's just assume we get a first rounder for him. Would you trade 4 years of Ben Roethlisberger for rookie versions of Jarvis Jones, David DeCastro, Cam Heyward or Ziggy Hood? I wouldn't. I don't see how that's beneficial to the team. I think Heyward, DeCastro and Jones are all going to be solid players for 8 years but they don't even account for a fraction of the importance of the quarterback position during a game. When you have a guy who can play quarterback, you don't let him go. See Peyton Manning. Personally, I don't think the Rooney's are stupid enough to make such a mistake.

86WARD
11-16-2013, 06:41 AM
But you could draft marcus mariota!! Lol

zulater
10-14-2014, 08:44 PM
He deserves better than what this organization can give him.

Seriously this team is going to be bad for a long time. Need a full rebuilding and a different construction team.

Anyway after your 3-13 season get what you can for him, because you'll never be a contender in his career span again.

Lol, I was a year ahead of schedule. :lol:

silver & black
10-15-2014, 02:58 PM
This team wont win 5 games this year. I don't what team you're watching but it's not the 2013 Steelers.

C'mon, man. Even the Raiders "might" win 5 games..... though it's very doubtful. The Steelers are a far better team than the Raiders.

Don't take this wrong my Steeler friends, but you guys are serious rookies at this losing stuff... and I'm kind of getting a kick out of it! :heh:...:wink02:

ALLD
10-15-2014, 03:05 PM
Why do you think Peyton Manning can do his taxes in the pocket? Because of the talent they have at LT? Their talented LT is out for the year and they didn't miss a beat with a no name back up. If that isn't the biggest argument that coaching and QB play (and the way that QB makes you practice) aren't the real difference here then I don't know how to convince anyone.


I know that Peyton chokes in big games and Ben is clutch when it matters. He also has one more SB ring.

smokin3000gt
10-15-2014, 06:14 PM
C'mon, man. Even the Raiders "might" win 5 games..... though it's very doubtful. The Steelers are a far better team than the Raiders.

Don't take this wrong my Steeler friends, but you guys are serious rookies at this losing stuff... and I'm kind of getting a kick out of it! :heh:...:wink02:

you're right. I've been watching the games by myself because I can't handle being around a lot of the steeler fans here lately.. the bandwagon will be a lot lighter in the next couple years. only the real fans will remain.

bayz101
10-15-2014, 06:24 PM
C'mon, man. Even the Raiders "might" win 5 games..... though it's very doubtful. The Steelers are a far better team than the Raiders.

Don't take this wrong my Steeler friends, but you guys are serious rookies at this losing stuff... and I'm kind of getting a kick out of it! :heh:...:wink02:

You aren't the only one getting sick of it. I sifted through pages and pages of garbage before the season even started of people predicting the Steelers mega-failure. It's almost as if people WANT them to fail, you know?

I swear. If we turn it around and have a good season I will NEVER let up. :lol:

Going to rub that shit in so many faces. Some of these fans couldn't possibly root for a team like the Browns over the years, or even the Raiders. You guys have a good QB though, best of luck! You have our number, too! :sofunny:

zulater
10-15-2014, 06:37 PM
you're right. I've been watching the games by myself because I can't handle being around a lot of the steeler fans here lately.. the bandwagon will be a lot lighter in the next couple years. only the real fans will remain.

Being realistic doesn't make you less of a fan. Just as being critical of the government doesn't make you unpatriotic.

smokin3000gt
10-15-2014, 07:19 PM
Being realistic doesn't make you less of a fan. Just as being critical of the government doesn't make you unpatriotic.

I think you mistook what I said brother. Regarding the bandwagon comment I'm speaking of the people who became steeler fans in the Big Ben/post season every year era. Now that it's not all wins and championships I think a lot of the newer crowd that took to black and gold because of their winning record will be gone. The rest of us will still be here.

Also when I said "I've been watching the games by myself becauseI can't handle being around a lot of the steeler fans here lately.." I meant here as in my home in SW FL. Sometimes it's better to lick my wounds and sulk in quiet instead of hearing about coach momlin and someone kicking beer cans every down. I probably shouldn't have been so quick on the keyboard..