PDA

View Full Version : Worst coached team in football



60_MINUTES
09-08-2013, 03:04 PM
By far worst coach in NFL. Cowhers guys almost all gone. Here's Tomlins team. Nice job Tomlin. I have a great team

fansince'76
09-08-2013, 03:08 PM
Yeah, that didn't take long. Just like I called it, too...

X-Terminator
09-08-2013, 03:09 PM
Yeah, that didn't take long. Just like I called it, too...

Like clockwork (pun intended).

FYURE TAWMLIN!!!! HE SUCKKKZZZZZZZ!!!!

Gotta love the yinzers.

steel9guy
09-08-2013, 03:09 PM
For Real, FIRE TOMLIN! I've had it.

steelerdude15
09-08-2013, 03:09 PM
This board can be so hard to deal with anymore.

fansince'76
09-08-2013, 03:10 PM
Like clockwork (pun intended).

FYURE TAWMLIN!!!! HE SUCKKKZZZZZZZ!!!!

Gotta love the yinzers.

BUTT WEER DA BESST BANBAYSE INN DA LEEEEGE!

Devilsdancefloor
09-08-2013, 03:11 PM
Sigh

X-Terminator
09-08-2013, 03:12 PM
BUTT WEER DA BEST BANBAYSE IN DA LEEEEGE!

I just laugh every time I read that, because nothing could be further from the truth. Steelers fans are the most fickle, spoiled and impatient fans in the league. You want real fans? Give me a Cleveland Browns fan. Nothing but futility year after year, and yet, they are as loyal as they come.

salamander
09-08-2013, 03:12 PM
DA STEALERS STILL PAY DA REFS :chuckle:

I'll take Tomlin over 90% of the coaches in the NFL any day.

SteelMayhem72
09-08-2013, 03:16 PM
Im not gonna say fire tomlin...I like tomlin...I just think our problem as it always is the O line!! I think we need to go shotgun every time just like manning does and run our offense that way...

stillers4me
09-08-2013, 03:16 PM
I just laugh every time I read that, because nothing could be further from the truth. Steelers fans are the most fickle, spoiled and impatient fans in the league. You want real fans? Give me a Cleveland Browns fan. Nothing but futility year after year, and yet, they are as loyal as they come.

They are used to sucking. We aren't. :lol:

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk 4

steel9guy
09-08-2013, 03:17 PM
Just frustrating when we could have had a leg up in the division.

fansince'76
09-08-2013, 03:19 PM
Im not gonna say fire tomlin...I like tomlin...I just think our problem as it always is the O line!! I think we need to go shotgun every time just like manning does and run our offense that way...

With Pouncey apparently being down for the year, it's gonna be even scarier.

dislocatedday
09-08-2013, 03:22 PM
I say this over and over, but for once I would just like to see how this team could perform with a competent Offensive line. Perhaps the Titans front 7 are underrated, but what I saw all preseason and today was possibly the most atrocious O-line play I have ever seen from a professional football team. Year after year the line just seems to get worse. I don't understand how this continues to be such an Achilles heel for the Steelers every season since 2007. Is it poor drafting of oline talent, bad coaching, terrible scheme........what is it? I wish I knew how to fix it.

X-Terminator
09-08-2013, 03:23 PM
Im not gonna say fire tomlin...I like tomlin...I just think our problem as it always is the O line!! I think we need to go shotgun every time just like manning does and run our offense that way...

Pouncey's season-ending injury may be enough to put that one to rest as well. We can still try it, though. Line up 4-wide and throw every down, like Haley did in Arizona with Kurt Warner. Running the football is an exercise in futility.

fansince'76
09-08-2013, 03:24 PM
I say this over and over, but for once I would just like to see how this team could perform with a competent Offensive line. Perhaps the Titans front 7 are underrated, but what I saw all preseason and today was possibly the most atrocious O-line play I have ever seen from a professional football team. Year after year the line just seems to get worse. I don't understand how this continues to be such an Achilles heel for the Steelers every season since 2007. Is it poor drafting of oline talent, bad coaching, terrible scheme........what is it? I wish I knew how to fix it.

What makes it really disconcerting is all the high picks we've spent on OL in recent years and it only seems to be getting worse. The OL wasn't even this bad in 2008, and that line absolutely sucked.

SteelMayhem72
09-08-2013, 03:26 PM
Its a shame to watch other rookie QBs or so to outplay Ben!!! I have to say I think Haley needs arians playbook!!!

- - - Updated - - -

pouncey out for the season and so is foote!!! we are done!!!

steel9guy
09-08-2013, 03:27 PM
I miss Arians. lol

ALLD
09-08-2013, 03:28 PM
They didn't show anything in pre-season and it's only getting worse.

Nadroj 20
09-08-2013, 03:29 PM
Don't worry guys, I'm trying out for center tomorrow.

I'm 6'0" 176lbs but I'll give it my all.

dislocatedday
09-08-2013, 03:31 PM
[QUOTE=SteelMayhem72;392865]Its a shame to watch other rookie QBs or so to outplay Ben!!! QUOTE]

Ben is not the problem at all. Give him a competent Oline and he would put up some huge numbers I believe.

katmandu
09-08-2013, 03:32 PM
pouncey out for the season and so is foote!!! we are done!!!Foote too ???? What the hell happened to him ??

Shoes
09-08-2013, 03:32 PM
PITCHFORKS AT THE READY!!!!!!

steel9guy
09-08-2013, 03:33 PM
[QUOTE=SteelMayhem72;392865]Its a shame to watch other rookie QBs or so to outplay Ben!!! QUOTE]

Ben is not the problem at all. Give him a competent Oline and he would put up some huge numbers I believe.

Anyone blaming Ben needs to relook at that game. He had no time whatsoever.

- - - Updated - - -

Foote has ruptured Bicepts.

GBMelBlount
09-08-2013, 03:35 PM
I say this over and over, but for once I would just like to see how this team could perform with a competent Offensive line.

Agreed.

Almost all first and 2nd round picks and they still play like bumbling buffoons.

It is truly embarrassing.

However I think we'll be ok with Legursky filling in at center....oh....wait...:chuckle:

katmandu
09-08-2013, 03:37 PM
WHAT HAPPENED TO FOOTE ??

X-Terminator
09-08-2013, 03:38 PM
WHAT HAPPENED TO FOOTE ??

Ruptured biceps. Done for year.

HollywoodSteel
09-08-2013, 03:54 PM
I just laugh every time I read that, because nothing could be further from the truth. Steelers fans are the most fickle, spoiled and impatient fans in the league. You want real fans? Give me a Cleveland Browns fan. Nothing but futility year after year, and yet, they are as loyal as they come.

Yes, clearly the biggest problem with this team is the fanbase. How dare they be critical of anything the team does, like not scoring points on offense for the first 58 minutes of the game? Talk about spoiled. :wink02:

- - - Updated - - -


What makes it really disconcerting is all the high picks we've spent on OL in recent years and it only seems to be getting worse. The OL wasn't even this bad in 2008, and that line absolutely sucked.

I honestly wouldn't be too worried about the O-line if it weren't for the Pouncey injury. Sometimes it takes a little while to really gel, but with Pouncey gone... he is the glue that holds it all together, and we have absolutely no depth.

Dwinsgames
09-08-2013, 03:57 PM
I am not happy with the coaching I won't lie about it , the team was flat and out of sink ( that is preparedness and on the coaches ) they could not stop the run ... but that is the least of our problems considering we could not run the ball , we could not sustain drives for a variety of reasons and we have losses in players for the season and lack quality depth to sustain those losses .....

is it all coaching ? nope

but coaching is part of the equation ... we could do better than what we have but those guys are under contract elsewhere for good reason and if Tomlin where fired today he would be out of work a whole 5 seconds before someone snapped him up in some capacity ...

we lost today in a game we should have won for me Redman set the tone for the loss we opened the game in a furry moving the ball with ease down field inside the 5 he loses the handle on the ball and nothing went right the rest of the way until the final 2 min drive ...to little to late ...

yes this will sting awhile but it is not the end of the world ... the player losses will hurt in the long run far more than the final score in this one folks

Kittyfish
09-08-2013, 03:57 PM
Really, if fans can't vent their frustrations here, what should they do instead? Kick their dogs? Beat their wives? Not that I'm suggesting fans do that sort of thing, of course, but let people let off steam here, among fellow fans who can possibly talk them down "off the ledge". I'm sure everyone who is upset now will be feeling better in a day or two, or even a few hours. It's just frustration of the moment is all. JMVHO.

ALLD
09-08-2013, 03:57 PM
Ben and the WRs are the only NFL starting caliber players on the offensive side. Defense was good. Hard to hold the other offense when they start at the 50 yard line most of the day.

X-Terminator
09-08-2013, 03:58 PM
Yes, clearly the biggest problem with this team is the fanbase. How dare they be critical of anything the team does, like not scoring points on offense for the first 58 minutes of the game? Talk about spoiled. :wink02:

Being critical of the team's performance is one thing. Calling for the coach to be fired after every damn loss is ridiculous and has long since gotten old and tired.

X-Terminator
09-08-2013, 04:00 PM
Really, if fans can't vent their frustrations here, what should they do instead? Kick their dogs? Beat their wives? Not that I'm suggesting fans do that sort of thing, of course, but let people let off steam here, among fellow fans who can possibly talk them down "off the ledge". I'm sure everyone who is upset now will be feeling better in a day or two, or even a few hours. It's just frustration of the moment is all. JMVHO.

Understood, but it gets tiresome seeing the same thing over and over and over again.

steeldawg
09-08-2013, 04:04 PM
I think we have to start looking at the coaches, I mean we where supposed to have gotten rid of our locker room problems because they were supposed to be the cancers that dragged us down last season. This team is not prepared and the game plan sucks.

60_MINUTES
09-08-2013, 04:24 PM
This team has gotten worse with each cowher player that leaves. We have no depth what do ever and it falls directly on the head coach. I think he would be a good position coach but make no mistake about it he never gets them up for games they should win. His attitude or lack there of Is and has been a problem for years. Bottom line if the type of players he brings in. Gone are the Hines ward , Brent keisel , Arron smith , type draft picks. Replaced with guys like mike Wallace, hood, Etc. Tomlin likes speed. While the steelers always won with football players. The guy has to own the team and right now u have 8-8 team. Coming into a new year and just played what might have been the worst game at home in history to start a season. It falls directly on Tomlin.


Take Ryan Clark. Troy P and Ike Taylor off this D and we would be one of the worst D in football. Replace BEN on O and your even worse than u were today. The only glue holding this team together is dick L and cowhers players on D. I hope this is his last shot. Either he takes this team to playoffs or we should move on before it gets worse

HollywoodSteel
09-08-2013, 04:28 PM
Being critical of the team's performance is one thing. Calling for the coach to be fired after every damn loss is ridiculous and has long since gotten old and tired.


I agree that really wanting coaches fired at this point is silly. I just think it's equally tiresome to see sarcastic responses like "the sky is falling" picture to make fun of fans who are just "too spoiled" and will "find fault with anything." I think there is plenty to criticise and if you think that critism is misplaced then say why. Dismissive "lol"s and chuckles at spoiled fans brings nothing more to the debate than those calling for the heads of coaches. At least I kind of get why they think the team is badly coached. If they are wrong, and the team is well coached I'm totally open to hearing the reasons why.

I'm not saying you're wrong about Tomlin or anything else, and I don't mean to single out your comment specifically. I just find some of the condesending dismissals of criticisms (even before they happen sometimes with comments like "this is a no win situation because fans will complain even if we win...") to be just as silly as what you think are baseless criticisms of the team.

st33lersguy
09-08-2013, 04:32 PM
I don't know about worst coached team, that would probably go to the Jags, but there is no doubt that this team was not prepared to play today and all the problems form last year were not fixed, and that I put on Coach Tomlin who in far too many games has failed to have his team ready to play. That I put on the coach. Plus Todd Haley called plays like Airhead Arians today, and 9 points against Tennessee's lump of crap that they call a defense was inexcusable.

steelerdude15
09-08-2013, 04:34 PM
This team has gotten worse with each cowher player that leaves. We have no depth what do ever and it falls directly on the head coach. I think he would be a good position coach but make no mistake about it he never gets them up for games they should win. His attitude or lack there of Is and has been a problem for years. Bottom line if the type of players he brings in. Gone are the Hines ward , Brent keisel , Arron smith , type draft picks. Replaced with guys like mike Wallace, hood, Etc. Tomlin likes speed. While the steelers always won with football players. The guy has to own the team and right now u have 8-8 team. Coming into a new year and just played what might have been the worst game at home in history to start a season. It falls directly on Tomlin.


Take Ryan Clark. Troy P and Ike Taylor off this D and we would be one of the worst D in football. Replace BEN on O and your even worse than u were today. The only glue holding this team together is dick L and cowhers players on D. I hope this is his last shot. Either he takes this team to playoffs or we should move on before it gets worse

Yet, playing down to the competition's level was an issue with Cowher. This is nothing new and has been going on for a long time, well before Tomlin was hired.

Another thing, how on Earth can anyone even say that this was the worst loss in team history when opening a season at home? I guess everyone has forgotten about the 1989 opener vs the Browns where they destroyed the Steelers 51-0?

HollywoodSteel
09-08-2013, 04:40 PM
I don't know about worst coached team, that would probably go to the Jags, but there is no doubt that this team was not prepared to play today and all the problems form last year were not fixed, and that I put on Coach Tomlin who in far too many games has failed to have his team ready to play. That I put on the coach. Plus Todd Haley calls plays like Airhead Arians, and 9 points against Tennessee's lump of crap that they call a defense was inexcusable.

Only 7 points were against the lump of crap defense. :)

st33lersguy
09-08-2013, 04:43 PM
Only 7 points were against the lump of crap defense. :)

Oh yeah, true. Easy to forget those details when you are upset over a crappy loss like this

X-Terminator
09-08-2013, 04:52 PM
I don't know about worst coached team, that would probably go to the Jags, but there is no doubt that this team was not prepared to play today and all the problems form last year were not fixed, and that I put on Coach Tomlin who in far too many games has failed to have his team ready to play. That I put on the coach. Plus Todd Haley calls plays like Airhead Arians, and 9 points against Tennessee's lump of crap that they call a defense was inexcusable.

It should be noted that "Airhead Arians" got his team to the playoffs last year, with a rookie QB, I might add, and parlayed that into a head coaching job. Todd Haley, on the other hand, did not. So really, how bad was Arians? The guy still won here despite not having a good running game during almost his entire tenure. THAT is the real problem with the offense. Until they figure out a way to establish some kind of ground game, these kind of games are going to keep happening.

steeldawg
09-08-2013, 04:55 PM
I will admit arians drove me nuts with some of his calls and I banged on him pretty hard but I was wrong I would cut my left arm off to get him back

Count Steeler
09-08-2013, 05:01 PM
I don't know how much more soul searching this coaching staff has to do, but these performances are becoming far too common.

Redman should be benched.

We can't run left! Stop trying! (Actually, today we couldn't run, period)

However, I did expect a slow start from this team. It is just hard to watch some of these types of games. Now with Pouncey and Foote down, this season may be another write off.

Godfather
09-08-2013, 05:05 PM
Yet, playing down to the competition's level was an issue with Cowher. This is nothing new and has been going on for a long time, well before Tomlin was hired.

Another thing, how on Earth can anyone even say that this was the worst loss in team history when opening a season at home? I guess everyone has forgotten about the 1989 opener vs the Browns where they destroyed the Steelers 51-0?

I was thinking about that game today, because this was the ugliest loss I've seen since then.

X-Terminator
09-08-2013, 05:06 PM
I was thinking about that game today, because this was the ugliest loss I've seen since then.

There's no comparison. That '89 game was far, far worse than anything the Steelers have put up since, including today. They at least managed to score a TD today.

st33lersguy
09-08-2013, 05:07 PM
It should be noted that "Airhead Arians" got his team to the playoffs last year, with a rookie QB, I might add, and parlayed that into a head coaching job. Todd Haley, on the other hand, did not. So really, how bad was Arians? The guy still won here despite not having a good running game during almost his entire tenure. THAT is the real problem with the offense. Until they figure out a way to establish some kind of ground game, these kind of games are going to keep happening.

A bunch of close wins against bad teams, one of the most pro-ready rookie QBs in a long time carrying the team, and the entire team and community rallying around their cancer stricken head coach. I am not going to let that fluke year forget just how idiotic his play-calling really was. Plus Todd Haley once won a division title with Matt Cassel as QB on a team that went 2-14 both 2 years prior and 2 years later

steeldawg
09-08-2013, 05:20 PM
A bunch of close wins against bad teams, one of the most pro-ready rookie QBs in a long time carrying the team, and the entire team and community rallying around their cancer stricken head coach. I am not going to let that fluke year forget just how idiotic his play-calling really was. Plus Todd Haley once won a division title with Matt Cassel as QB on a team that went 2-14 both 2 years prior and 2 years later

Ya but you cant deny the drastic difference in our offense now compared to when we had arians maybe his play call wasn't so idiotic.

st33lersguy
09-08-2013, 05:26 PM
Ya but you cant deny the drastic difference in our offense now compared to when we had arians maybe his play call wasn't so idiotic.

Granted Ben was having the season of his life last year before the injury against Kansas City, then he was just playing tentatively when he returned

Master Blaster
09-08-2013, 05:36 PM
Its a shame to watch other rookie QBs or so to outplay Ben!!! I have to say I think Haley needs arians playbook!!!

- - - Updated - - -

pouncey out for the season and so is foote!!! we are done!!!
That's just ignorant nonsense! FYI, everything on offense begins with the OL and given that the Steelers have the youngest OL in the league it's going to take time for them to gell. Of course having Pouncey out, again, and for the season, it's going to be a long season.

I think they should bring back John Malecki because he has far more experience at center than Beachum does.

dislocatedday
09-08-2013, 05:41 PM
I will admit arians drove me nuts with some of his calls and I banged on him pretty hard but I was wrong I would cut my left arm off to get him back

I'm there with you. I thought the change of O coordinators was going to improve the offense. It is looking like that was wishful thinking on my part.

Master Blaster
09-08-2013, 05:43 PM
With the way this OL is playing Belichick couldn't do better.

Godfather
09-08-2013, 05:45 PM
With the way this OL is playing Belichick couldn't do better.

Can you imagine Marsha behind our O-line? He'd be curled up in the fetal position on the sideline.

Ben playing behind New England's line? Scary thought.

X-Terminator
09-08-2013, 06:08 PM
A bunch of close wins against bad teams, one of the most pro-ready rookie QBs in a long time carrying the team, and the entire team and community rallying around their cancer stricken head coach. I am not going to let that fluke year forget just how idiotic his play-calling really was. Plus Todd Haley once won a division title with Matt Cassel as QB on a team that went 2-14 both 2 years prior and 2 years later

Still does not change the fact that he was successful, and Haley wasn't. At some point, you're going to have to face fact that the offense isn't any better under Haley than it was under Arians, and that he really wasn't the devil's spawn that you and many others believe him to be.

Hawkman
09-08-2013, 06:19 PM
Really, if fans can't vent their frustrations here, what should they do instead? Kick their dogs? Beat their wives? Not that I'm suggesting fans do that sort of thing, of course, but let people let off steam here, among fellow fans who can possibly talk them down "off the ledge". I'm sure everyone who is upset now will be feeling better in a day or two, or even a few hours. It's just frustration of the moment is all. JMVHO.

Well spoken, well said!

HollywoodSteel
09-08-2013, 06:19 PM
With the way this OL is playing Belichick couldn't do better.


Yes, but have you noticed that he never puts an O-line on the field that is this bad? And our guys aren't exactly talentless undrafted free agents. 2 first rounders and 2 second rounders. And do you think he'd go into the season with no depth so that 1 or 2 injuries basically fucks up your whole season? At some point doesn't coaching have something to do with it?

Craic
09-08-2013, 06:34 PM
So, I decided to come see if someone was actually going to be daft enough to post a "Fire Tomlin" thread after the first game.


By far worst coach in NFL. Cowhers guys almost all gone. Here's Tomlins team. Nice job Tomlin. I have a great team

For Real, FIRE TOMLIN! I've had it.
Thanks for not disappointing.


Yes, clearly the biggest problem with this team is the fanbase. How dare they be critical of anything the team does, like not scoring points on offense for the first 58 minutes of the game? Talk about spoiled. :wink02:

I honestly wouldn't be too worried about the O-line if it weren't for the Pouncey injury. Sometimes it takes a little while to really gel, but with Pouncey gone... he is the glue that holds it all together, and we have absolutely no depth.

To the first line, yeah, I'd say spoiled. When we lose the first game of the year by seven points, including three key injuries and we already have threads calling for the coaches to be fired, it's very much a spoiled fanbased.


Ruptured biceps. Done for year.

:doh: Are you serious!


Agreed.

Almost all first and 2nd round picks and they still play like bumbling buffoons.

It is truly embarrassing.

However I think we'll be ok with Legursky filling in at center....oh....wait...:chuckle:

I wouldn't say that. Our defense played solid. Think about it, they allowed one TD and played on a short field most of the game. Mike Adams had a decent game. Not a stellar game, not even a good game, but he was far from a bumbling buffoon. He only allowed one pressure that I could see, and I focused on him quite a bit during the game. Timmons and Woodley both showed that they can still play (again, the entire defense allowed one TD and they were on a short field all day. That is actually a pretty dang good feat).

On the other, yeah, I didn't think letting Legursky go would be the smartest idea. Really would've liked to depend on him for the next few weeks (or months).


With Pouncey apparently being down for the year, it's gonna be even scarier.

Are we sure about this? I haven't heard if he's out or not. Was it already confirmed (just finished watching the game, so I haven't checked).

SteelMayhem72
09-08-2013, 06:36 PM
Still does not change the fact that he was successful, and Haley wasn't. At some point, you're going to have to face fact that the offense isn't any better under Haley than it was under Arians, and that he really wasn't the devil's spawn that you and many others believe him to be.
^^^^^ I agree with this!!

Craic
09-08-2013, 06:38 PM
Really, if fans can't vent their frustrations here, what should they do instead? Kick their dogs? Beat their wives? Not that I'm suggesting fans do that sort of thing, of course, but let people let off steam here, among fellow fans who can possibly talk them down "off the ledge". I'm sure everyone who is upset now will be feeling better in a day or two, or even a few hours. It's just frustration of the moment is all. JMVHO.

By the same token, there are a bunch of others here who really would like to discuss what went right and what went wrong, but what usually happens is threads such as this (and it bleeds into other threads) that become all or nothing. "Fire the Coach!" "This team sucks!" etc., does nothing for spawning conversation. Why should we have to read emotional vomit? It just takes a person a second or two to take a deep breath, put things in a better perspective, and then start a thread about the issues they see.

tube517
09-08-2013, 06:44 PM
On the other, yeah, I didn't think letting Legursky go would be the smartest idea

Exactly what I said in the Gameday thread. I know he (Legursky)sucked as a guard but Beachum at center leaves us with the cheapskate tuesday hamburger eater as our "top" backup on the OL

60_MINUTES
09-08-2013, 06:53 PM
He tore his acl and mcl confirmed. And yes after an 8 -8 season. And a performance like that the sky is not looking good at this point. Every year we lose cowher players and every year we get worse. Take Ike Taylor. Troy p Ryan Clark and keisel away and we would be average to below on D. Tomlin has taken a franchise QB and went back wards. He is no doubt a good position coach and players coach but runs a team for shit. We have a bunch of kids on the team playing around on Facebook. And he's one of them. He's no different what so ever than his best friend Raheem Morris. And would have had same results if not for cowhers team with dick L running the D. Tomlin for sure inherited a power house. I believe everyone deserves a shot so if he can take this team to playoffs ( which is mostly his team now ) then I will never bring up firing him again. But to me each year we get worse and each year we lose more toughness. Gone are Hines ward. Replaced with a Wallace. Heath millers are cowhers guys. David Johnson Tomlin. Ziggy hood. Or Arron smith. Tomlin wants little fragile Ass speed players. We're we use to bring in football players. I just see a different trend of players that's all and it's not working well.

Like I said last year though. Go to the playoffs with your group and I will shut up from now on about it

steeldawg
09-08-2013, 06:58 PM
I don't know how Wallace keeps coming up in reference to this years team? Wallace is gone and our offense was completely inept cant really blame him for that.

dislocatedday
09-08-2013, 07:09 PM
I really want to see what the front office and coaching staff do to address the Oline this week. There is no depth at all and this team is one more injury away from Guy Whimper starting. They have to do something.

Iron Steeler
09-08-2013, 07:18 PM
Mike Adams not a LT in the pros. Haley's style not working with Ben. Defense looks good... But we have to stop giving so much cushion on the opposing the receivers on 3 down . Play bump and run on those assholes. coach Dick everyone's on to you on 3rd down .

Ugly game all together . And lets be honest what's a Steeler season without 3 probowl caleber players out with season ending injuries!

HollywoodSteel
09-08-2013, 07:48 PM
To the first line, yeah, I'd say spoiled. When we lose the first game of the year by seven points, including three key injuries and we already have threads calling for the coaches to be fired, it's very much a spoiled fanbased.

I think we are not far off from each other in how we feel about these threads degenerating into uselessness, but honestly the whole "spoiled fanbase" stuff is just as dumb, if not more so, than the "fire so and so" type of comment. It's like calling someone spoiled is supposed to be a catch all trump card or something. What the hell is a spoiled fan? One who wants the best team in the NFL every year? Sure, it's unrealistic, but it is absolutely what you should want and it has nothing to do with being spoiled. It's being a fan of a sports team. I want every play to be perfect, every coaching decision to be right, and I want a Lombardi every year. My team went 8-8 last year. Am I supposed to be happy about that? Then what's the point of coming to this board and discussing the ways we can improve? How many disappointing seasons in row before me wanting to be great is not because I'm spoiled, but just because I'm a sports fan like any other and different fans will have different opinions about the best course of action.

To belittle a fan's opinion about the correct course of action by saying "you're spoiled" is condescending and rude and contributes less to the debate than the opinion you are belittling. I agree that Tomlin should not be fired, but that's because I believe it would yield worse results than keeping him. And I'm sure someone who wants him fired believes otherwise. Therein lies the debate, and we can discuss all the ins and outs of it. I think it would be equally rude if someone were to dismiss your opinion by saying "you're just a homer who thinks the Steelers can do no wrong." If you think someone's opinion is too stupid to be even worth debating then I can understand that and the easiest course of action is to do just that and not debate it.

Master Blaster
09-08-2013, 07:52 PM
I think we are not far off from each other in how we feel about these threads degenerating into uselessness, but honestly the whole "spoiled fanbase" stuff is just as dumb, if not more so, than the "fire so and so" type of comment. It's like calling someone spoiled is supposed to be a catch all trump card or something. What the hell is a spoiled fan? One who wants the best team in the NFL every year? Sure, it's unrealistic, but it is absolutely what you should want and it has nothing to do with being spoiled. It's being a fan of a sports team. I want every play to be perfect, every coaching decision to be right, and I want a Lombardi every year. My team went 8-8 last year. Am I supposed to be happy about that? Then what's the point of coming to this board and discussing the ways we can improve? How many disappointing seasons in row before me wanting to be great is not because I'm spoiled, but just because I'm a sports fan like any other and different fans will have different opinions about the best course of action.

To belittle a fan's opinion about the correct course of action by saying "you're spoiled" is condescending and rude and contributes less to the debate than the opinion you are belittling. I agree that Tomlin should not be fired, but that's because I believe it would yield worse results than keeping him. And I'm sure someone who wants him fired believes otherwise. Therein lies the debate, and we can discuss all the ins and outs of it. I think it would be equally rude if someone were to dismiss your opinion by saying "you're just a homer who thinks the Steelers can do no wrong." If you think someone's opinion is too stupid to be even worth debating then I can understand that and the easiest course of action is to do just that and not debate it.
How dare you be sensible and articulate!

The Bark
09-08-2013, 08:00 PM
The bottom line is this team is now 2-6 over its last eight games and 2-10 counting pre-season. Sure I don't put too much emphasis on pre-season, but all the warts were right there in plain sight offensively during those four games.

I could go on a diatribe about the coaching and front-office decisions, but won't other than to say Tomlin's inconsistency as a coach started a couple of seasons back and the team has been marred by a lot of questionable personnel decisions; what you see taking place on the field obviously being the direct result. Coaches aren't any different than managers: both get paid to manage resources, make decisions and solve problems.

The reality is that 2-6 record over eight games now has a very good possibility of becoming 2-8. The team has suffered a lot of misfortunes with injuries, but aren't doing themselves any favors with their decision making behind the scenes, either.

60_MINUTES
09-08-2013, 08:25 PM
The bottom line is this team is now 2-6 over its last eight games and 2-10 counting pre-season. Sure I don't put too much emphasis on pre-season, but all the warts were right there in plain sight offensively during those four games.

I could go on a diatribe about the coaching and front-office decisions, but won't other than to say Tomlin's inconsistency as a coach started a couple of seasons back and the team has been marred by a lot of questionable personnel decisions; what you see taking place on the field obviously being the direct result. Coaches aren't any different than managers: both get paid to manage resources, make decisions and solve problems.

The reality is that 2-6 record over eight games now has a very good possibility of becoming 2-8. The team has suffered a lot of misfortunes with injuries, but aren't doing themselves any favors with their decision making behind the scenes, either.



The bark. That's a nice way of u saying that Tomlin hasn't done anything to make adjustments towards fixing this

Craic
09-08-2013, 08:25 PM
I think we are not far off from each other in how we feel about these threads degenerating into uselessness, but honestly the whole "spoiled fanbase" stuff is just as dumb, if not more so, than the "fire so and so" type of comment. It's like calling someone spoiled is supposed to be a catch all trump card or something. What the hell is a spoiled fan? One who wants the best team in the NFL every year? Sure, it's unrealistic, but it is absolutely what you should want and it has nothing to do with being spoiled. It's being a fan of a sports team. I want every play to be perfect, every coaching decision to be right, and I want a Lombardi every year. My team went 8-8 last year. Am I supposed to be happy about that? Then what's the point of coming to this board and discussing the ways we can improve? How many disappointing seasons in row before me wanting to be great is not because I'm spoiled, but just because I'm a sports fan like any other and different fans will have different opinions about the best course of action.

To belittle a fan's opinion about the correct course of action by saying "you're spoiled" is condescending and rude and contributes less to the debate than the opinion you are belittling. I agree that Tomlin should not be fired, but that's because I believe it would yield worse results than keeping him. And I'm sure someone who wants him fired believes otherwise. Therein lies the debate, and we can discuss all the ins and outs of it. I think it would be equally rude if someone were to dismiss your opinion by saying "you're just a homer who thinks the Steelers can do no wrong." If you think someone's opinion is too stupid to be even worth debating then I can understand that and the easiest course of action is to do just that and not debate it.

The problem, HS, is that you're not someone I would consider in that category. You express your opinions without a "Sky is Falling" mentality. I do think our fanbase is spoiled. I know I am. I expect a winning season every season and a SB run at the end of it. How many other fanbases can say that? Not that they hope for one, but that they honestly expect one? Five? Six? The problem here, IMO, is when we begin to gripe and complain because those unreal expectations aren't met. That's far from what I see you doing . . . which is, "what is wrong and what do we need to do to fix it." Heck, I'd be willing to read all through a thread that seeks to discuss what Tomlin is or is not doing wrong, and then asking at what point does it descend into losing his job. But read the OP again. That is NOT what this thread is.

This thread is someone choosing to take an emotional dump right in the middle of the forum without regard to anyone else in this community that is searching through the threads to this game. In short, I (and I am saying, me, personally) feel like those who post these types of threads could care less about anyone else's experience in the forum, as long as they get to puke out their emotion. Is that harsh? Probably. Is it hypocritical? I've had an emotional post or two (shut up, Zu! :chuckle:). But don't you think that in a community (and that is very much what we are on a fanboard, especially when many of us have met others on this board), we shouldn't stop and think before we just spout off with any given emotion?

The Bark
09-08-2013, 08:43 PM
The bark. That's a nice way of u saying that Tomlin hasn't done anything to make adjustments towards fixing this

Pretty much! :) It's reflected in the coaching and play calling during the game, too. I don't know how many times the offensive line has been pegged as the issue, yet, look at the way the running backs have been handled. Dwyer, Rainey, AND Mendenhall all gone from the prior season? Redman getting the start based on two pre-season carries? Let's not forget he was unceremoniously cut a few seasons ago when he was clearly the best running back during pre-season. The whole running back position dating back to Mendenhall's benching has been so miserably mishandled, not to mention inconsistent which isn't fair to the players either.

But back to play calling, the o-line seemed to be doing ok until the Titans D realized there was absolutely no running game and the Steelers found themselves in the usual predicament of trying to contain pressure. But do they make any adjustments? I think I even heard Fouts talk about how Ben was trying to improve on getting quick passes off to receivers to let them utilize their speed - a strategy that seems to be warranted when your line can't hold anyone - yet I only recall a couple of quick routes.

There's also been the hesitancy to move to a hurry-up offense to establish some kind of tempo and dictate pace, yet another strategy that would seemingly help - but we only seem to see during the two minute drills. It just seems that, with all the issues with the offense line over the last several years, there would be a strategy in place to utilize. Instead, they look like they're stubbornly determined to stick to their original game plans which quickly leads to the inevitable definition of insanity.

60_MINUTES
09-08-2013, 08:57 PM
U are exactly right the bark. Dead on the money

60_MINUTES
09-08-2013, 09:05 PM
The problem, HS, is that you're not someone I would consider in that category. You express your opinions without a "Sky is Falling" mentality. I do think our fanbase is spoiled. I know I am. I expect a winning season every season and a SB run at the end of it. How many other fanbases can say that? Not that they hope for one, but that they honestly expect one? Five? Six? The problem here, IMO, is when we begin to gripe and complain because those unreal expectations aren't met. That's far from what I see you doing . . . which is, "what is wrong and what do we need to do to fix it." Heck, I'd be willing to read all through a thread that seeks to discuss what Tomlin is or is not doing wrong, and then asking at what point does it descend into losing his job. But read the OP again. That is NOT what this thread is.

This thread is someone choosing to take an emotional dump right in the middle of the forum without regard to anyone else in this community that is searching through the threads to this game. In short, I (and I am saying, me, personally) feel like those who post these types of threads could care less about anyone else's experience in the forum, as long as they get to puke out their emotion. Is that harsh? Probably. Is it hypocritical? I've had an emotional post or two (shut up, Zu! :chuckle:). But don't you think that in a community (and that is very much what we are on a fanboard, especially when many of us have met others on this board), we shouldn't stop and think before we just spout off with any given emotion?


Good lord preach. Go cry a river cause u tired of seeing a thread. Call it emotional or whatever u want. Bottom line is I've watched Tomlin year after year do and say dumbass things. Unleash hell, lol. And I'm finally sick of it. We are a terrible coached football team. If we didn't have a HOF D cord we would look like a highschool team. Once again we have to hope like hell Ben will put us on his back and find a way to win. Tomlin is exactly like his best friend Raheem Morris. Raheem didn't have HOF QB or HOF D to carry him. Now those guys are leaving team and retiring your seeing Tomlins results. It's pitiful and I'm tired of making excuses for him. So I've said many times. You will never see me post a thread like this again if he makes the playoffs with his group one time. My fingers are crossed that we do. But make no mistake about it. If the best Tomlin can put on the field is another 8-8 team. Then he's got to go period

The Bark
09-08-2013, 09:27 PM
Anyone know his number?

http://www.morethings.com/fan/quentin_tarantino/pulp_fiction/pulp_fiction4610.jpg

fansince'76
09-08-2013, 09:38 PM
If the best Tomlin can put on the field is another 8-8 team. Then he's got to go period

I've read this multiple times over multiple seasons, but I have yet to ever hear someone suggest a sensible alternative to take his place. And no, Cowher's not coming back.

The Bark
09-08-2013, 09:50 PM
I've read this multiple times over multiple seasons, but I have yet to ever hear someone suggest a sensible alternative to take his place. And no, Cowher's not coming back.

Russ Grimm or Ken Whisenhunt, lol. I'M JOKING... sort of. Maybe. The good news is, going back six years, "Mike Tomlin" would not have been anyone other than the Rooney's sensible alternative to taking Cowher's place - and I'm not saying that to knock the guy or imply the Rooneys were Rooney-ruling it, but as in he came out of nowhere and under the radar.

Rather than blame it all on Tomlin, the front office and ownership need to step back with the coaching staff and collectively decide "WHAT DO WE WANT TO BE ON OFFENSE?", because right now, it's apparent confusion reigns supreme from the top down (and, in some ways, it's not surprising considering how offenses are evolving in the league and the need to keep pace).

60_MINUTES
09-08-2013, 09:56 PM
[QUOTE=fansince'76;393116]I've read this multiple times over multiple seasons, but I have yet to ever hear someone suggest a sensible alternative to take his place. And no, Cowher's not coming back.[/QUOTE

id line to have a vetern coach come in there is always guys out there. I'd rather have a Andy Reid then Tomlin. We need an off coach to come in. We have the D and if Divk leaves there I'd no doubt butler will take the D reins and run it like click work. We need an off guru type coach. If not then bring us a tough nosed guy that isn't buddy buddy with everyone. Tomlin spends more time on Facebook than woodely does. Why do u think all the players love him. He spends to much time trying to buddy with them. He should be a position coach. No other way to put it. I hope he proves me wrong.

stillers4me
09-08-2013, 09:59 PM
Tomlin spends more time on Facebook than woodely does.

So you think he does that himself? No, has a staff member do it, if it is even a real account. As far as his twitter account, I've only seen him post a few things. He has it to keep track of what the players are doing on it.

60_MINUTES
09-08-2013, 10:05 PM
Look what in saying is there is no doubt about it. Tomlin is to close to his players and to much buddy buddy crab. That's why all I hear is how much they live him. That's fine with a vet team but terrible with kids. And right now your entire O is pretty much kids. We need someone to take control and he's not doing it.

fansince'76
09-08-2013, 10:15 PM
id line to have a vetern coach come in there is always guys out there. I'd rather have a Andy Reid then Tomlin. We need an off coach to come in. We have the D and if Divk leaves there I'd no doubt butler will take the D reins and run it like click work. We need an off guru type coach. If not then bring us a tough nosed guy that isn't buddy buddy with everyone. Tomlin spends more time on Facebook than woodely does. Why do u think all the players love him. He spends to much time trying to buddy with them. He should be a position coach. No other way to put it. I hope he proves me wrong.

No offense intended, but IMO, this is exactly the kind of thinking that leads to teams changing coaches every other year and staying stuck in neutral for years and years and years on end. There's a reason there are always guys out there - because they got fired from their previous job due to lack of performance. I don't want to see the Steelers' FO become the Browns' FO by cleaning house and starting over from scratch every two years. We're barely two years removed from back-to-back 12-4 finishes. We're barely 3 years removed from a Super Bowl appearance and barely 5 years removed from a Super Bowl win. Therefore, I'm willing to give Tomlin a bit more time. I never called for Cowher's head after THREE LOSING seasons and four non-playoff seasons from 1998-2003, so I'm not about to call for Tomlin's head when he still has yet to post a SINGLE sub-.500 record.

And as far as getting an offensive guru for a HC is concerned, the Ravens tried that with Brian Billick. And their offense stunk for YEARS even worse than ours does now. Careful what you wish for - you just might get it.

fansince'76
09-08-2013, 10:37 PM
Rather than blame it all on Tomlin, the front office and ownership need to step back with the coaching staff and collectively decide "WHAT DO WE WANT TO BE ON OFFENSE?", because right now, it's apparent confusion reigns supreme from the top down (and, in some ways, it's not surprising considering how offenses are evolving in the league and the need to keep pace).

I think AJR II already drew that line in the sand by not renewing Arians' contract - he wanted more running. And we don't have the horses to pull that off. That's why we're repeatedly stuck in 3rd-and-9 situations (and longer) and Ben is forced to "go schoolyard" and pull our fat out of the fire. I would say more no-huddle would help, but with Pouncey getting knocked out early today, I don't even think that's a viable option since the OL was more discombobulated than ever.

steel9guy
09-08-2013, 11:11 PM
On the bright side I was very impressed with our Defense and think Dick Lebeau did a good job today. Can't expect a team facing Chris Johnson to hold him every play when your offense does nothing.

60_MINUTES
09-08-2013, 11:22 PM
No offense intended, but IMO, this is exactly the kind of thinking that leads to teams changing coaches every other year and staying stuck in neutral for years and years and years on end. There's a reason there are always guys out there - because they got fired from their previous job due to lack of performance. I don't want to see the Steelers' FO become the Browns' FO by cleaning house and starting over from scratch every two years. We're barely two years removed from back-to-back 12-4 finishes. We're barely 3 years removed from a Super Bowl appearance and barely 5 years removed from a Super Bowl win. Therefore, I'm willing to give Tomlin a bit more time. I never called for Cowher's head after THREE LOSING seasons and four non-playoff seasons from 1998-2003, so I'm not about to call for Tomlin's head when he still has yet to post a SINGLE sub-.500 record.

And as far as getting an offensive guru for a HC is concerned, the Ravens tried that with Brian Billick. And their offense stunk for YEARS even worse than ours does now. Careful what you wish for - you just might get it.



Cowher had two off years then went 9-7 in 2000 missing playoffs by one game. Following year 13-3 fax champ game and pats who were calling out our plays best us before anyone knew they were cheating. Point is 98 just found out had problem after 5 great years. 99 starts to fix it. 2000 rebuilt on verge and 2001. Back to dominance. To me looks like we are going backwards after the problem was noticed. Also cowher didn't have the number one D in football with a HOF QB on Off. To me any local idiot should win more than they lose with number one D in football and HOF QB. Anybody. Except Tomlin.

fansince'76
09-08-2013, 11:27 PM
Cowher had two off years then went 9-7 in 2000 missing playoffs by one game. Following year 13-3 fax champ game and pats who were calling out our plays best us before anyone knew they were cheating. Point is 98 just found out had problem after 5 great years. 99 starts to fix it. 2000 rebuilt on verge and 2001. Back to dominance.

And then 10-5-1 and a wildcard berth in '02 (regression, and, thanks to realignment after '01, our two biggest pains in the neck at the time, Jacksonville and Tennessee, moved to another division, otherwise we probably wouldn't have even made the playoffs that year), and right back to 6-10 in '03 (even more regression), and then 15-1 and a #1 seed in '04, then 11-5 and a sixth seed in '05 (in which we had to win the last 4 regular season games just to make the playoffs culminating in a slopfest of a Super Bowl win which everybody but Steelers fans think was handed to us on a silver platter by the refs), and then 8-8 in '06 when Cowher mentally checked out. Dominance? During Cowher's last 6 years on the job this team was anything BUT dominant, never mind even consistent. This team hasn't been dominant since the late '70s.

zulater
09-09-2013, 05:52 AM
A few things need to be said. One, this is Tomlin's seventh season. Never, not once during his tenure have the Steelers had so much as an average offensive line. Best we've ever been up front with him is slightly below average a couple times. This year the o-line looks down right atrocious.

Somehow or other the Titans added 3 new starters to their o-line since the end of last season. And they can run the ball a little and protect the passer at times. So it can be down.

Two going into a season without a backup center when Pouncey is your starter is a recipe for disaster. A stupid plan. Pouncey has never gone through a season unscathed by the injury bug. He's missed multiple games. Sometimes series and or quarters. So to think you could go into a season without anything resembling a real back up center is moronic! :doh: 100 organizational fuck up that the line self destructed when Pouncey went out for not having a legitimate back up center. Making you back up tackle your center is a stupid plan! And obviously they game planned with Beachum playing a big role in the 3 TE set, so removing him from his natural spot weakened the team significantly on the edge.

Truthfully they should swallow their pride and see what it would take to trade for Legurskey from the Bills. That's the bed they made themselves by allowing him to go with no real replacement.

Dwinsgames
09-09-2013, 07:10 AM
what everyone seems to be forgetting in all this is this ....

IT ALL STARTS UP FRONT !!!

If you cant block at the LOS you are going to fail in your game plan before you ever get started and we can not block at the LOS ..

we have ZERO clue of what Haleys game plan would have looked like because it never had a chance to take place ....

the first Steeler drive looked awesome UNTIL Redman coughed it up , if that was Haleys game plan it looked fine to me but once the fumble took place we never really had a chance on O all game long ...

Ben sacked 5 times hurried a dozen more knocked down another half dozen how do you get any continuity when that is happening ???

tube517
09-09-2013, 07:20 AM
A few things need to be said. One, this is Tomlin's seventh season. Never, not once during his tenure have the Steelers had so much as an average offensive line. Best we've ever been up front with him is slightly below average a couple times. This year the o-line looks down right atrocious.

Somehow or other the Titans added 3 new starters to their o-line since the end of last season. And they can run the ball a little and protect the passer at times. So it can be down.

Two going into a season without a backup center when Pouncey is your starter is a recipe for disaster. A stupid plan. Pouncey has never gone through a season unscathed by the injury bug. He's missed multiple games. Sometimes series and or quarters. So to think you could go into a season without anything resembling a real back up center is moronic! :doh: 100 organizational fuck up that the line self destructed when Pouncey went out for not having a legitimate back up center. Making you back up tackle your center is a stupid plan! And obviously they game planned with Beachum playing a big role in the 3 TE set, so removing him from his natural spot weakened the team significantly on the edge.

Truthfully they should swallow their pride and see what it would take to trade for Legurskey from the Bills. That's the bed they made themselves by allowing him to go with no real replacement.

Can't even do that. Even Legursky was injured.

Master Blaster
09-09-2013, 08:10 AM
On the bright side I was very impressed with our Defense and think Dick Lebeau did a good job today. Can't expect a team facing Chris Johnson to hold him every play when your offense does nothing.
There is also the fact that due to the offense's complete ineptness the defense was on the field far longer than they should have been. Losing Foote was as big a loss as losing Pouncey was since there is no other M.L.B. qualified to replace Larry as the defensive signal caller. Even Ryan Clark said so.

Master Blaster
09-09-2013, 08:20 AM
A few things need to be said. One, this is Tomlin's seventh season. Never, not once during his tenure have the Steelers had so much as an average offensive line. Best we've ever been up front with him is slightly below average a couple times. This year the o-line looks down right atrocious.

Somehow or other the Titans added 3 new starters to their o-line since the end of last season. And they can run the ball a little and protect the passer at times. So it can be down.

Two going into a season without a backup center when Pouncey is your starter is a recipe for disaster. A stupid plan. Pouncey has never gone through a season unscathed by the injury bug. He's missed multiple games. Sometimes series and or quarters. So to think you could go into a season without anything resembling a real back up center is moronic! :doh: 100 organizational fuck up that the line self destructed when Pouncey went out for not having a legitimate back up center. Making you back up tackle your center is a stupid plan! And obviously they game planned with Beachum playing a big role in the 3 TE set, so removing him from his natural spot weakened the team significantly on the edge.

Truthfully they should swallow their pride and see what it would take to trade for Legurskey from the Bills. That's the bed they made themselves by allowing him to go with no real replacement.
That's what happens when a head coach is content to use undrafted free agents and other team's cast offs. Bringing Legursky back is not the answer because he struggled playing center against big nose tackles. Watch film of him going up against Holati N'gata and you will see Legursky get driven back nearly every time. He lacked the size to move them off of the ball.

Master Blaster
09-09-2013, 08:26 AM
what everyone seems to be forgetting in all this is this ....

IT ALL STARTS UP FRONT !!!

If you cant block at the LOS you are going to fail in your game plan before you ever get started and we can not block at the LOS ..

we have ZERO clue of what Haleys game plan would have looked like because it never had a chance to take place ....

the first Steeler drive looked awesome UNTIL Redman coughed it up , if that was Haleys game plan it looked fine to me but once the fumble took place we never really had a chance on O all game long ...

Ben sacked 5 times hurried a dozen more knocked down another half dozen how do you get any continuity when that is happening ???
I have said exactly this several times since yesterday. Obviously, far too many fans are devoid of the ability to realize that it doesn't matter who the O.C. is or what scheme he's using, if the O.L. can't run or pass block there is the inevitable negative domino affect.

The Bark
09-09-2013, 08:30 AM
I think AJR II already drew that line in the sand by not renewing Arians' contract - he wanted more running. And we don't have the horses to pull that off. That's why we're repeatedly stuck in 3rd-and-9 situations (and longer) and Ben is forced to "go schoolyard" and pull our fat out of the fire. I would say more no-huddle would help, but with Pouncey getting knocked out early today, I don't even think that's a viable option since the OL was more discombobulated than ever.

I would agree with AJR II drawing the line, but this is where HE'S part of the problem: you've got what you've got. You need to make adjustments based on the personnel you have at this point in time and not try to force a square peg into a hole. That's why Tomlin was successful early on and why so many attribute that success to the Cowher era: he didn't make any changes because none were necessary. Now that they are, they're flailing.

Again, I know injuries have been a factor, but the decision making regarding the running game has been handled so poorly (thank God Dwyer was still available this morning). The personnel situation on the line and at RB has been so unsettled, it's just ridiculous to get marching orders that they're going to focus on the run more now. It just reminds me of the corporate world where the new manager comes in, doesn't look to his staff's strengths and weaknesses first, and sets his own course and wonders why he's failed.

I wouldn't be making such a case about this had they actually gone out and got some better replacement parts than Plaxico Burress, Felix Jones and Stephens-Howling while continually letting the o-line play musical chairs. It's like watching somebody truly believe duct tape fixes everything.

st33lersguy
09-09-2013, 09:02 AM
What was up with Jarvis Jones rotting the bench even though it was clear as day that he was the far superior player than Worilds yesterday? Does Tomlin and the rest of the coaching not have the guts to bench a player who is clearly being outperformed by one of the backups? Jarvis is a playmaker who could have forced a much needed turnover. And does the coaching staff plan on trying to stop the block-in-the-back penalties on punt returns within the next 3 years or so?

zulater
09-09-2013, 11:20 AM
That's what happens when a head coach is content to use undrafted free agents and other team's cast offs. Bringing Legursky back is not the answer because he struggled playing center against big nose tackles. Watch film of him going up against Holati N'gata and you will see Legursky get driven back nearly every time. He lacked the size to move them off of the ball.

He struggled against N'gata, true, but so do a lot of other centers. I'm not saying he's anything great. What I'm saying is he's competent. And more to the point he knows how to call out blocking assignments on a blitz, which is a major reason that things went as far south as they did yesterday. Beachum was lost trying to figure out what the Titans were doing ( which is completely understandable) and as a result the entire line was flying blind on many plays. In fact I would probably go as far as to say that physically right now Beachum is a better talent than Legurskey ever was. But he doesn't understand the nuance of the position, (how could he?) and thus the line as a whole suffered. And also again by taking Beachum out of the 3rd tight end role that he practiced in for the last month leading into this game, it compromised our ability to control the edge, thereby weakening two positions instead of one.

BnG_Hevn
09-09-2013, 12:20 PM
Yet, playing down to the competition's level was an issue with Cowher. This is nothing new and has been going on for a long time, well before Tomlin was hired.

Another thing, how on Earth can anyone even say that this was the worst loss in team history when opening a season at home? I guess everyone has forgotten about the 1989 opener vs the Browns where they destroyed the Steelers 51-0?

I don't think Cowher played down to the competition. I firmly believe the Steelers use the ole Art of War strategy (can't remember exact verbiage) where you don't back your enemies into a corner which would make them desperate. Desperate teams have little to lose and will do things they normally wouldn't which then leads to comeback victories.

They keep it close and win it in the end. The problem is, to do that you need a solid team that CAN win it in the end. In years past, the Steelers would win close games in final minutes / seconds, now they are losing those same games ... if they are even in it at the end to begin with.

Anyway, I think this is a Steelers philosophy, NOT a Cowher one and b/c Tomlin is not fielding the same caliber team AS Cowher, that philosophy simply won't work.

That is why I think you rarely see the Steelers blow a team out. It's not because they can't (in the past that is) it is b/c they choose not too even if it's obvious that they "could" run up the score.

I say Tomlin needs to play to the strengths, which means pass, pass and more pass. Until they are ABLE to run a balanced offense, why not just pass. What's the difference if you lose by trying the run and are not able to and simply utilizing the pass more often and losing?

I have a feeling the Steelers are a good 3 years away from being in the mix. The o-line needs to come up to speed. They may make the playoffs, but they will not make any noise for at least 3 years I bet. They are in the classic re-building phase, like it or not.

60_MINUTES
09-09-2013, 12:27 PM
A few things need to be said. One, this is Tomlin's seventh season. Never, not once during his tenure have the Steelers had so much as an average offensive line. Best we've ever been up front with him is slightly below average a couple times. This year the o-line looks down right atrocious.

Somehow or other the Titans added 3 new starters to their o-line since the end of last season. And they can run the ball a little and protect the passer at times. So it can be down.

Two going into a season without a backup center when Pouncey is your starter is a recipe for disaster. A stupid plan. Pouncey has never gone through a season unscathed by the injury bug. He's missed multiple games. Sometimes series and or quarters. So to think you could go into a season without anything resembling a real back up center is moronic! :doh: 100 organizational fuck up that the line self destructed when Pouncey went out for not having a legitimate back up center. Making you back up tackle your center is a stupid plan! And obviously they game planned with Beachum playing a big role in the 3 TE set, so removing him from his natural spot weakened the team significantly on the edge.

Truthfully they should swallow their pride and see what it would take to trade for Legurskey from the Bills. That's the bed they made themselves by allowing him to go with no real replacement.


But yet Tomlin was quoted two years ago saying the best way to fix our line problems is speed at the WR position. Rheem Morris. I mean mike Tomlin has succeeded in taking a HOF D. And HOF.QB and making them losers. How ? I have no idea

X-Terminator
09-09-2013, 12:32 PM
They are in the classic re-building phase, like it or not.

Unfortunately, that is unacceptable to much of The Nation. It's win every year, or else. But it's clear as day that the team is rebuilding, and a couple of down years should be expected.

60_MINUTES
09-09-2013, 12:34 PM
What was up with Jarvis Jones rotting the bench even though it was clear as day that he was the far superior player than Worilds yesterday? Does Tomlin and the rest of the coaching not have the guts to bench a player who is clearly being outperformed by one of the backups? Jarvis is a playmaker who could have forced a much needed turnover. And does the coaching staff plan on trying to stop the block-in-the-back penalties on punt returns within the next 3 years or so? Where was Markus Wheaton? Was he so impressive in preseason that the coaches didn't want to play him?


just got off phone with buddy of mine. Saying same things. If we all can see Jarvis was a ball hawk then why not mike? Worids. Who by the way was Tomlins boy. His pick that no one had heard of from Hampton roads. Tomlins neighborhood He has sucked. Why on earth did he rotate in. And what's wrong with a end. Around or two with Wheaton.


Maybe worlds can try inside backer. Shit try something with these guys.

Master Blaster
09-09-2013, 12:40 PM
Unfortunately, that is unacceptable to much of The Nation. It's win every year, or else. But it's clear as day that the team is rebuilding, and a couple of down years should be expected.
Therein lies the dilemma they find themselves in. You don't rebuild when you have a top five QB whom is in his peak years. You retool, but you don't rebuild because you risk squandering and wasting his talent while playing catch up.

zulater
09-09-2013, 12:48 PM
Forget Legurskey for a moment. I'ts not a matter of a particular player. What it's about is the need for a genuine back up center. Particularly when your starting center has a history of getting injured. Even if it's for a quarter or a series, not having a legit backup center is not a good plan. You have to have someone with experience to go in if needed. Not only is it about a comfort level snapping the ball to the qb in all sets and formations. It's also about understanding the defense and issuing last minute blocking adjustments to the rest of the team when necessary. Anyhow by Tunch Ilkin's estimation Beachum may have had a 100 reps at center between camp, OTA's and preseason combined. Not enough to throw at the Titans "Bear" defense and expect any good result. Again your 3rd tight end in your heavy package shouldn't be your back up center! Your third OT shouldn't also be your back up center! It's a stupid plan! What if Adams or Gilbert goes down? Was Tomlin going to have Beachum play two positions at once? :frusty:

Now getting back to Legurskey. Yes he can be abused at times by big nose tackles like N'gata. But not on every play! Not to the point that we don't even look like a legitimate NFL team on offense like yesterday! Again your back up OT can't also be your back up center! There's just jot enough practice reps to go around to expect a guy who practices at tackle and tight end for the last month to go in and play center at any level of competency! Or to call out line assignments for the rest of the line! You have to have a back up center fully immersed in the position!

- - - Updated - - -


Therein lies the dilemma they find themselves in. You don't rebuild when you have a top five QB whom is in his peak years. You retool, but you don't rebuild because you risk squandering and wasting his talent while playing catch up.

If you're going to rebuild then you might as well trade Ben as soon as you can get your asking price, be it now or next offseason

But you shouldn't have to rebuild. If you had a good plan in place things wouldn't get to the point that you'd even consider it. So if you allow the people who made the decisions that put the team in this state of decline to try to rebuild it from scratch... Well good luck with that.

60_MINUTES
09-09-2013, 01:00 PM
Spot on. To even go into the season without a back up center. Is dumbest thing in the world. Of course Tomlin says speed at the WR spot will fix the line problems. What a joke . I hope to goodness he proves me wrong but it sure doesnt look like he will

X-Terminator
09-09-2013, 01:12 PM
Therein lies the dilemma they find themselves in. You don't rebuild when you have a top five QB whom is in his peak years. You retool, but you don't rebuild because you risk squandering and wasting his talent while playing catch up.

Yeah, it's a tightrope they are walking. When you consider how much roster turnover there has been, however - an OL full of 1st and 2nd round picks, a DL with first round picks mixed in with some young UDFAs and Brett Keisel - maybe "retooling" is a better description of what they're doing. Or an "on-the-fly" rebuild.

But I think the real problem is that the team lacks an identity. Are they a physical football team that likes to pound the rock, or are they a passing team? We simply don't know yet, and I don't think they do either. That isn't good, and something you can blame on the coaching staff, including Tomlin. They need to figure out ASAP what kind of team they are and play to their strengths, or this is going to be a long year.

silver & black
09-09-2013, 01:12 PM
Unfortunately, that is unacceptable to much of The Nation. It's win every year, or else. But it's clear as day that the team is rebuilding, and a couple of down years should be expected.
That sounds like another fan base I know. "We don't rebuild, we reload." Right! It's easy to get spoiled when you're used to going to the playoffs every year and expect to contend for the SB. As they say... shit happens. I seriously doubt you will experience what Raiders fans have dealt with for the last decade but, no team is immune to it. Sooner or later every team will go through a bad spell.

X-Terminator
09-09-2013, 01:25 PM
That sounds like another fan base I know. "We don't rebuild, we reload." Right! It's easy to get spoiled when you're used to going to the playoffs every year and expect to contend for the SB. As they say... shit happens. I seriously doubt you will experience what Raiders fans have dealt with for the last decade but, no team is immune to it. Sooner or later every team will go through a bad spell.

Yep. And we have been through it, all right - it was called the 1980s, after all of the great players on the 70s retired or moved on to other teams. Even during Cowher's last 9 years as HC, he missed the playoffs five times, including 3 straight years from 1998-2000 when they lost some of their great players to FA or retirement. Tomlin is going though a similar phase, except the pressure to win now is more intense than it's ever been, and the fans don't have the stomach for a rebuild or even a retooling. They must win, or they must go. There is no in-between.

zulater
09-09-2013, 01:42 PM
Yep. And we have been through it, all right - it was called the 1980s, after all of the great players on the 70s retired or moved on to other teams. Even during Cowher's last 9 years as HC, he missed the playoffs five times, including 3 straight years from 1998-2000 when they lost some of their great players to FA or retirement. Tomlin is going though a similar phase, except the pressure to win now is more intense than it's ever been, and the fans don't have the stomach for a rebuild or even a retooling. They must win, or they must go. There is no in-between.

When Cowher and Noll went through their losing years they didn't have a franchise quarterback.

Shoes
09-09-2013, 01:43 PM
Yep. And we have been through it, all right - it was called the 1980s, after all of the great players on the 70s retired or moved on to other teams. Even during Cowher's last 9 years as HC, he missed the playoffs five times, including 3 straight years from 1998-2000 when they lost some of their great players to FA or retirement. Tomlin is going though a similar phase, except the pressure to win now is more intense than it's ever been, and the fans don't have the stomach for a rebuild or even a retooling. They must win, or they must go. There is no in-between.

If Tomlin/Rooney would make it clear that the team was in a rebuilding mode things would settle down, I believe. However, the picture they have painted is a carryover of last year, using the same comments and soundbites. I said it before, having a few down years will get rid of the bandwagon fans in short order. I can remember games at Forbes Field & Pitt Stadium where most *fans* were rooting against the Steelers.

X-Terminator
09-09-2013, 01:49 PM
When Cowher and Noll went through their losing years they didn't have a franchise quarterback.

During Noll's losing years, they didn't have a franchise anything, unlike Cowher, but I digress. No, they did not have a franchise quarterback, but the Steelers under Cowher still had some very good-to-great players that were part of losing teams. Tomlin has yet to have a losing season, unlike both Noll and Cowher, but we have fans who want to hang him from the nearest yardarm.

X-Terminator
09-09-2013, 01:53 PM
If Tomlin/Rooney would make it clear that the team was in a rebuilding mode things would settle down, I believe.

I disagree. Wholeheartedly...


I said it before, having a few down years will get rid of the bandwagon fans in short order.

...except for this part.

Master Blaster
09-09-2013, 02:54 PM
When Cowher and Noll went through their losing years they didn't have a franchise quarterback.
That term didn't get used until after free agency was instituted. Cowher would have won at least three S.B.'s if he had Ben when he started coaching the team.

XxKnightxX
09-09-2013, 04:29 PM
just got off phone with buddy of mine. Saying same things. If we all can see Jarvis was a ball hawk then why not mike? Worids. Who by the way was Tomlins boy. His pick that no one had heard of from Hampton roads. Tomlins neighborhood He has sucked. Why on earth did he rotate in. And what's wrong with a end. Around or two with Wheaton.


Maybe worlds can try inside backer. Shit try something with these guys.

Jason Worilds is from New Jersey, and played in Blacksburg, what map are you looking at since mine doesnt show any Hampton Roads in there.

Master Blaster
09-09-2013, 06:35 PM
Jason Worilds is from New Jersey, and played in Blacksburg, what map are you looking at since mine doesnt show any Hampton Roads in there.
I stopped reading that nonsense when he said Worilds sucks.

HollywoodSteel
09-09-2013, 06:38 PM
The problem, HS, is that you're not someone I would consider in that category. You express your opinions without a "Sky is Falling" mentality. I do think our fanbase is spoiled. I know I am. I expect a winning season every season and a SB run at the end of it. How many other fanbases can say that? Not that they hope for one, but that they honestly expect one? Five? Six? The problem here, IMO, is when we begin to gripe and complain because those unreal expectations aren't met. That's far from what I see you doing . . . which is, "what is wrong and what do we need to do to fix it." Heck, I'd be willing to read all through a thread that seeks to discuss what Tomlin is or is not doing wrong, and then asking at what point does it descend into losing his job. But read the OP again. That is NOT what this thread is.

This thread is someone choosing to take an emotional dump right in the middle of the forum without regard to anyone else in this community that is searching through the threads to this game. In short, I (and I am saying, me, personally) feel like those who post these types of threads could care less about anyone else's experience in the forum, as long as they get to puke out their emotion. Is that harsh? Probably. Is it hypocritical? I've had an emotional post or two (shut up, Zu! :chuckle:). But don't you think that in a community (and that is very much what we are on a fanboard, especially when many of us have met others on this board), we shouldn't stop and think before we just spout off with any given emotion?

I understand what you are saying and I'm sorry if I came off a bit harsh, especially with you since I know you would never intentionally belittle anyone. Maybe it's just the word "spoiled" that rubs me the wrong way since it seems like an indictment of someone's personality rather than their opinion. And it seems like a weird indictment. Don't we all want the best possible team whether we are smart, dumb, spoiled, or blinder wearing homers? To call someone spoiled as a way to dismiss their position seems like a misplaced notion, unless you mean that they are overlooking the long term goal in service of some short term solution. But I don't think that's what most people mean when they use it to dismiss someone's opinion. It reeks of superiority, like "Oh, here come the spoiled fans with their 'fire so and so' comments, but I know better because I'm..." What? Not spoiled? That makes your judgement superior?

Again, I get why you don't like thread starters that lack meat behind the emotion, but I think some people people around here actually relish them so they can roll their eyes at the "inferior" fan. "Boy, am I smart. I was just counting down the seconds until a 'fire Tomlin' or a 'fire Haley' thread." While I don't personality think we should be firing anyone at this point in the season, it isn't an absolutely crazy notion to look at the possibility and discuss it. All the "fire Arians" fans were just "dumb non-Steelers trusting fans who didn't know squat..." until they did, and the guy was actually fired.

Personally, I agree with you that the purely emotional comments should go in the game day section where we expect them. But I can't totally begrudge fans who genuinely believe in what they are saying, even if it does come off as a bit anger based. To me a "fire Tonlin" comment or thread isn't all that different from a "cut Redman" comment. It's an opinion, right or wrong. And it's not like unspoiled fans of continuously bad teams don't scream for their coachs' heads. They just tend to get their way sooner and more often. :)

NCSteeler
09-09-2013, 06:44 PM
What was up with Jarvis Jones rotting the bench even though it was clear as day that he was the far superior player than Worilds yesterday? Does Tomlin and the rest of the coaching not have the guts to bench a player who is clearly being outperformed by one of the backups? Jarvis is a playmaker who could have forced a much needed turnover. And does the coaching staff plan on trying to stop the block-in-the-back penalties on punt returns within the next 3 years or so?


Jones had splash plays, worlids. Was solid all day long

Master Blaster
09-09-2013, 06:58 PM
I understand what you are saying and I'm sorry if I came off a bit harsh, especially with you since I know you would never intentionally belittle anyone. Maybe it's just the word "spoiled" that rubs me the wrong way since it seems like an indictment of someone's personality rather than their opinion. And it seems like a weird indictment. Don't we all want the best possible team whether we are smart, dumb, spoiled, or blinder wearing homers? To call someone spoiled as a way to dismiss their position seems like a misplaced notion, unless you mean that they are overlooking the long term goal in service of some short term solution. But I don't think that's what most people mean when they use it to dismiss someone's opinion. It reeks of superiority, like "Oh, here come the spoiled fans with their 'fire so and so' comments, but I know better because I'm..." What? Not spoiled? That makes your judgement superior?

Again, I get why you don't like thread starters that lack meat behind the emotion, but I think some people people around here actually relish them so they can roll their eyes at the "inferior" fan. "Boy, am I smart. I was just counting down the seconds until a 'fire Tomlin' or a 'fire Haley' thread." While I don't personality think we should be firing anyone at this point in the season, it isn't an absolutely crazy notion to look at the possibility and discuss it. All the "fire Arians" fans were just "dumb non-Steelers trusting fans who didn't know squat..." until they did, and the guy was actually fired.

Personally, I agree with you that the purely emotional comments should go in the game day section where we expect them. But I can't totally begrudge fans who genuinely believe in what they are saying, even if it does come off as a bit anger based. To me a "fire Tonlin" comment or thread isn't all that different from a "cut Redman" comment. It's an opinion, right or wrong. And it's not like unspoiled fans of continuously bad teams don't scream for their coachs' heads. They just tend to get their way sooner and more often. :)
Good post.

We also must keep in mind that those same fans that start the "so and so needs to be fired" threads are hurting from the pain of witnessing the Steelers perform so poorly, especially when their expectations are high. We can go to any Steelers fan forum and see the exact same threads. Seeing the team crash and burn in the manner that they did creates a considerable amount of angst and pain because fans invest a lot of emotion into the team. They're hurt and they're angry and they need an outlet to vent their fury and frustration. Hence the reason why they go to the forums to vent. That's why it is important to recognize that and to help talk them back from the ledge. The whole mood and tone will change in every forum once the team puts together a string of wins.

NCSteeler
09-09-2013, 07:07 PM
http://www.behindthesteelcurtain.com/2013/9/9/4711764/the-fall-of-the-house-of-colbert

In all the ruckus about how bad we are, this is the first I've heard Colberts name, but maybe they are right. Poor poor drafts equal crappy play on the field

Master Blaster
09-09-2013, 07:33 PM
http://www.behindthesteelcurtain.com/2013/9/9/4711764/the-fall-of-the-house-of-colbert

In all the ruckus about how bad we are, this is the first I've heard Colberts name, but maybe they are right. Poor poor drafts equal crappy play on the field
There is a lot of truth displayed in that article. The one fact that stands out the most is there are no players from the 2008 draft class on the team any more and only two from the '09 draft class. The author echoed many of the questions we fans have had. Colbert has a good record of drafting first round picks, but after that it gets dicey, especially from third round on. Look at last season's forth round pick, Ta'amu. He's now in Arizona. How about Chris Rainey?

Dwinsgames
09-09-2013, 08:03 PM
There is a lot of truth displayed in that article. The one fact that stands out the most is there are no players from the 2008 draft class on the team any more and only two from the '09 draft class. The author echoed many of the questions we fans have had. Colbert has a good record of drafting first round picks, but after that it gets dicey, especially from third round on. Look at last season's forth round pick, Ta'amu. He's now in Arizona. How about Chris Rainey?


look at the failed second round picks or picks the jury is still out on ...

2012 Adams

2011 Gilbert

2010 Worilds

2009 None

2008 Sweed

2007 Woodley

2006 None

2005 McFadden

2004 Colclough

2003 Alonzo Jackson

jb500ex
09-09-2013, 08:08 PM
Jones had splash plays, worlids. Was solid all day long
Worlds wasn't great but I wonder if people actually watch or since jones made a good play hey think he was good. He was getting flat out owned most of his time and he look lost the other time other than two plays, that's why he wasn't on the field more

dislocatedday
09-09-2013, 08:10 PM
When I hear the word "rebuilding" I think of a team with major deficiencies in many areas that need to be addressed by getting in new talent across the board. I just don't see how the Steelers could be considered in a "rebuilding" phase unless one thinks that there are major, long-standing deficiencies in multiple areas. The only MAJOR deficiency (..and it's a big one..) that I see is the Oline, with the special teams play being a secondary weakness. We have a franchise QB, a very good group of receivers IMO, and a stellar group on D that consistently is ranked in the top 5. The RB crew looks suspect right now too, but I feel that with a competent Oline the running game would improve. We often hear old, well-worn phrases like "Football comes down to blocking and tacking" and "The game is won or lost in the trenches".............well, the Steelers do just fine in the tackling department, but the blocking part is a joke right now. It's not time to rebuild IMO....it's high time that the Oline become productive. I don't know if it is talent or coaching, but something needs to change with this unit. The team is also fairly young in most areas as well. The secondary is the only "old" group as a whole.

Dwinsgames
09-09-2013, 08:13 PM
Worlds wasn't great but I wonder if people actually watch or since jones made a good play hey think he was good. He was getting flat out owned most of his time and he look lost the other time other than two plays, that's why he wasn't on the field more


he was drawing double team blocks on more than 1 occasion , Even James Harrison fails in those situations but when that happens it puts Woodley 1 on 1 vs a TE or RB a battle he SHOULD win 9 times out of 10 ( but he does not ) hard to blame Jones for drawing the coverage when it is Woodleys job to make them pay for that double team

SteelerFanInStl
09-09-2013, 08:59 PM
http://www.behindthesteelcurtain.com/2013/9/9/4711764/the-fall-of-the-house-of-colbert

In all the ruckus about how bad we are, this is the first I've heard Colberts name, but maybe they are right. Poor poor drafts equal crappy play on the field

I've questioned the quality of our recent drafts on this forum quite a few times. Most seem to think that we've done a great job drafting.

Hawkman
09-09-2013, 09:55 PM
When Cowher and Noll went through their losing years they didn't have a franchise quarterback.

.....and Shula never won a SB with Marino. You can make an argument for anything.

Craic
09-09-2013, 11:25 PM
Good lord preach. Go cry a river
Now THAT's Ironic, considering this thread.

As for the rest of your post . . .

Call it emotional or whatever u want. Bottom line is I've watched Tomlin year after year do and say dumbass things. Unleash hell, lol. And I'm finally sick of it. We are a terrible coached football team. If we didn't have a HOF D cord we would look like a highschool team. Once again we have to hope like hell Ben will put us on his back and find a way to win. Tomlin is exactly like his best friend Raheem Morris. Raheem didn't have HOF QB or HOF D to carry him. Now those guys are leaving team and retiring your seeing Tomlins results. It's pitiful and I'm tired of making excuses for him. So I've said many times. You will never see me post a thread like this again if he makes the playoffs with his group one time. My fingers are crossed that we do. But make no mistake about it. If the best Tomlin can put on the field is another 8-8 team. Then he's got to go period

as compared to your first one


By far worst coach in NFL. Cowhers guys almost all gone. Here's Tomlins team. Nice job Tomlin. I have a great team


See the difference? That's all I'm asking for. Thank you.

Dwinsgames
09-10-2013, 10:54 AM
look at the failed second round picks or picks the jury is still out on ...

2012 Adams

2011 Gilbert

2010 Worilds

2009 None

2008 Sweed

2007 Woodley

2006 None

2005 McFadden

2004 Colclough

2003 Alonzo Jackson

Tom Donahoe 91-99 2nd round picks , he was run out of town for draft failures and the inability to get along with Cowher ...he was not very good but even he was slightly better in round 2 than Colbert


99- Scott Shields


98 -Jeremy Staat


97- Will Blackwell


96- Steven Conley


95- Kordell Stewart


94- Brentson Buckner


93- Chad Brown


92- Levon Kirkland


91- Jeff Graham

steel striker
09-11-2013, 02:47 PM
I'm with X-Terminator on this one shot gun 4-wide because, I just don't see where the running game is going to be effective. I not going to join the people that say fire Tomlin but, we all expected a better product on the field week one. I still think you have to let Ben be Ben.

Dwinsgames
09-11-2013, 02:56 PM
I'm with X-Terminator on this one shot gun 4-wide because, I just don't see where the running game is going to be effective. I not going to join the people that say fire Tomlin but, we all expected a better product on the field week one. I still think you have to let Ben be Ben.

the only problem is Ben would be dead at the end of the first quarter because these guys cant shadow block their own shadows

Shoes
09-11-2013, 08:44 PM
the only problem is Ben would be dead at the end of the first quarter because these guys cant shadow block their own shadows

Indeed, and after watching some slow-mo's of Mike Adams you've got to wonder. This kid has no sense of urgency or motor at all. You can't teach that!

Master Blaster
09-11-2013, 08:48 PM
Indeed, and after watching some slow-mo's of Mike Adams you've got to wonder. This kid has no sense of urgency or motor at all. You can't teach that!
Maybe not, but he sure can resemble a statue.

Shoes
09-11-2013, 08:49 PM
Maybe not, but he sure can resemble a statue.

:chuckle:

Dwinsgames
09-11-2013, 08:53 PM
just seen this in the Steelers 2013 program .....

a Pick of all the O-Lineman together out of uniform .....


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/fb/Wtc_path_station_turnstile.jpg

zulater
09-12-2013, 12:28 AM
According to a film study done by the Trib's Mark Kaboly, 31⁄2 of the five sacks were the fault of running backs, not the line. LaRod Stephens-Howling gave up two, Isaac Redman another, and Felix Jones and right tackle Marcus Gilbert were equally guilty on another. Left tackle Mike Adams gave up the fifth.
If Tomlin stops being so stubborn about dogging Jonathan Dwyer for not being in shape last spring, he'll get an instant upgrade in running back blocking: Dwyer was rated fourth-best in the NFL in that category last season by Pro Football Focus.



Read more: http://triblive.com/sports/dejankovacevic/dejancolumns/4683750-74/foster-steelers-season#ixzz2eeYLP9oC
Follow us: @triblive on Twitter | triblive on Facebook

Tomlin did a poor job of putting the Steelers final roster together. He didn't take his best 53 from camp into last Sunday's game.

- - - Updated - - -

• It's not the zone.
Some in the fan base are complaining about the outside zone-blocking scheme installed by new line coach Jack Bicknell Jr. And that might well be justified at some point. But in this game, the zone scheme was run only once.
Small wonder Foster laughed a bit when asked if the Steelers might ditch it: “No chance. We've got a lot of work into this.”
• Zero adjustment.
The Titans didn't get all gimmicky, but they did blitz. And for whatever reason, the Steelers didn't make a clear counter.
“There was a flaw, and they exploited it,” Foster said. “Other teams will keep trying it, too, unless we get it fixed. And we will. Look, the good part is that everything that went wrong was something we can control. It isn't right to say we got plain ol' whupped.”


Read more: http://triblive.com/sports/dejankovacevic/dejancolumns/4683750-74/foster-steelers-season#ixzz2eeZ2gWZE
Follow us: @triblive on Twitter | triblive on Facebook


This is a poorly coached team. Sorry Tomlin apologists, but he and his staff needs to pick up their game or the Steelers are in big trouble. .

Psycho Ward 86
09-12-2013, 01:28 AM
[I]According to a film study done by the Trib's Mark Kaboly, 31⁄2 of the five sacks were the fault of running backs, not the line.

Well thats reassuring. So our o-line only sucks at run blocking, not pass blocking. Thank god since that aspect of the offense isnt important :lol:.

Seriously though, i hope this game was just a testament to how formidable the titans front 4 is, and not to how bad our offensive line is. I do recall the titans spent a shit ton in free agency, and one of them was a big pickup at DT.

And someone somewhere out there needs to get their facts straight. i recall another article on the steelers a month or two ago that said dwyer was the top ranked blocking RB for pro football focus and redman was the 2nd?

Craic
09-12-2013, 01:42 AM
According to a film study done by the Trib's Mark Kaboly, 31⁄2 of the five sacks were the fault of running backs, not the line. LaRod Stephens-Howling gave up two, Isaac Redman another, and Felix Jones and right tackle Marcus Gilbert were equally guilty on another. Left tackle Mike Adams gave up the fifth.
If Tomlin stops being so stubborn about dogging Jonathan Dwyer for not being in shape last spring, he'll get an instant upgrade in running back blocking: Dwyer was rated fourth-best in the NFL in that category last season by Pro Football Focus.



Read more: http://triblive.com/sports/dejankovacevic/dejancolumns/4683750-74/foster-steelers-season#ixzz2eeYLP9oC
Follow us: @triblive on Twitter | triblive on Facebook

Tomlin did a poor job of putting the Steelers final roster together. He didn't take his best 53 from camp into last Sunday's game.

- - - Updated - - -

• It's not the zone.
Some in the fan base are complaining about the outside zone-blocking scheme installed by new line coach Jack Bicknell Jr. And that might well be justified at some point. But in this game, the zone scheme was run only once.
Small wonder Foster laughed a bit when asked if the Steelers might ditch it: “No chance. We've got a lot of work into this.”
• Zero adjustment.
The Titans didn't get all gimmicky, but they did blitz. And for whatever reason, the Steelers didn't make a clear counter.
“There was a flaw, and they exploited it,” Foster said. “Other teams will keep trying it, too, unless we get it fixed. And we will. Look, the good part is that everything that went wrong was something we can control. It isn't right to say we got plain ol' whupped.”


Read more: http://triblive.com/sports/dejankovacevic/dejancolumns/4683750-74/foster-steelers-season#ixzz2eeZ2gWZE
Follow us: @triblive on Twitter | triblive on Facebook


This is a poorly coached team. Sorry Tomlin apologists, but he and his staff needs to pick up their game or the Steelers are in big trouble. .


Can we drop the "apologists" comments? It's a cheap way of taking a cheapshot at anyone who might disagree. Seriously, please?

Now, poorly coached team? Nope. I wouldn't go that far. Not yet, at least, for a couple reasons. First, a very young line takes time to grow into their position. It's why you normally don't want all second and third year players on a line. We drafted a RB that we hoped would be able to take most of the carries, and then he can't seem to even get on the field due to injury. Then, we pick up a guy in preseason and think we can depend on him to do some third down running, maybe even pick up some carries . . . and he sparks the offense, for the four carries until he's injured and out. Our defense played well enough to earn a victory. So, poorly coached? No. At least, not yet. There's places where I think the coaches made mistakes, but blanket statements like that this early in the season are a waste because as usual, it takes this team time to come together.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. If you're a Steelers fan, you know that the season will usually begin somewhere in the 3-3 mark for the first six games. It's not even worth discussing until we hit that mark (or, 0-4, since that dictates 2-4 over the first six).

zulater
09-12-2013, 05:21 AM
Can we drop the "apologists" comments? It's a cheap way of taking a cheapshot at anyone who might disagree. Seriously, please?

.

Call it a preemptive strike if you will then. It's almost to the point where Tomlin is above criticism to many. Teflon Tomlin. Nothing sticks to him, it's always others that are to blame. Well I'm calling bullshit. 7 straight years of substandard offensive line play is more than bad luck, it's a calling card. If our offensive deficiency's are related to a poor offensive coaching staff how about we hold the person who hired that staff accountable?

As far as the Titans go, yeah they signed a few free agents, but you really think a team that set a record for giving up the most points in a season just last year (471) is now a defensive juggernaut? Hint, it wasn't them, it was us. Offensively we couldn't get out of our own way. We had no plan B once Pouncey went down because we had no real back up center. An injury prone center, but no reason to have an adequete back up on the roster? Nothing to do with coaching there, just bad luck? :doh:

zulater
09-12-2013, 08:33 AM
Ben and LeBeau have kept Tomlin from being exposed. Wait until they're both gone and see what we have? Not saying he's awful, I'm just saying he needs to improve! A lot!

Master Blaster
09-12-2013, 08:51 AM
Can we drop the "apologists" comments? It's a cheap way of taking a cheapshot at anyone who might disagree. Seriously, please?

Now, poorly coached team? Nope. I wouldn't go that far. Not yet, at least, for a couple reasons. First, a very young line takes time to grow into their position. It's why you normally don't want all second and third year players on a line. We drafted a RB that we hoped would be able to take most of the carries, and then he can't seem to even get on the field due to injury. Then, we pick up a guy in preseason and think we can depend on him to do some third down running, maybe even pick up some carries . . . and he sparks the offense, for the four carries until he's injured and out. Our defense played well enough to earn a victory. So, poorly coached? No. At least, not yet. There's places where I think the coaches made mistakes, but blanket statements like that this early in the season are a waste because as usual, it takes this team time to come together.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. If you're a Steelers fan, you know that the season will usually begin somewhere in the 3-3 mark for the first six games. It's not even worth discussing until we hit that mark (or, 0-4, since that dictates 2-4 over the first six).
This is a case of you having your eyes wide shut. Tomlin's coaching deficiencies were on full display this past Sunday and there is no denying it. One glaring example was the botched handoff between Ben and Redman. That play was doomed from the start because they had the wrong personnel group on the field for that play. The only person that realized that was Redman, but the play was allowed to happen anyways. The person initially responsible for that screw up was, Haley, but if Tomlin was actually engaged as to what was going on he should have called for a time out. In addition, Tomlin has had issues with poor clock management and it happened again in this game. I don't care how you attempt to spin it, but there is no excuse for him to go into the season having a seventh round draft pick as the main back up to every position along the line and to ask that player, whom has very limited experience, to also be asked to play the center position, the most important position on the line, with absolutely no experience doing so in college or the pros. To add insult to injury, this same player is also being asked to play tight end. The only other back up offensive lineman wearing a uniform on game day is a free agent that graded out as the worst guard in the league last season. There is no getting around the fact that to remove the stench of an 8-8 season, the year before, you don't put the hopes of accomplishing that goal by gambling that you can get through the season with an offensive line that has yet to get through a season uninjured... With two questionable back ups and neither being a true center.

60_MINUTES
09-12-2013, 12:18 PM
Here is a fair way for me to sum up this post. Maybe a better approach to my points and many others. No matter what side of the fence your on its just this simple. Mike Tomlin has a franchise QB maybe HOF QB with the number 1 D in the NFL. 2 years in a row number 1 D in NFL and we are losing games. 2 -6 over last 8 and 2-12 counting preseason. Tomlin supporters can slice it up however u want. But when u have the BEST D in the NFL and a HOF QB in his prime. And your losing games. That falls directly on your coach. Fair or not. You name me a coach in history that wouldnt jump all over a job with those circumstances . I can't imagine how you lose or come up with any excuse with those two things in your favor.

Bluecoat96
09-12-2013, 01:18 PM
I am a little concerned about the Steelers' performance, of course. However, I'm not all that worked up over it and I'll tell you why. I remember back in the 2008 season when we played the Eagles during the regular season (9/21/2008 to be exact- only the 3rd game of the year). Ben was sacked 9 TIMES, and the offense was absolutely horrific. The final score was 15-6 Philadelphia, and that was the week after barely squeezing out a win against the BROWNS. (10-6 was the score) Granted, they beat the piss out of the Texans in week 1, but who didn't at that time?

I'd say the 2008 season turned out ok for the Steelers. ;)

It's just too early to pass judgement on the 2013 Steelers

Psycho Ward 86
09-12-2013, 02:09 PM
I am a little concerned about the Steelers' performance, of course. However, I'm not all that worked up over it and I'll tell you why. I remember back in the 2008 season when we played the Eagles during the regular season (9/21/2008 to be exact- only the 3rd game of the year). Ben was sacked 9 TIMES, and the offense was absolutely horrific. The final score was 15-6 Philadelphia, and that was the week after barely squeezing out a win against the BROWNS. (10-6 was the score) Granted, they beat the piss out of the Texans in week 1, but who didn't at that time?

I'd say the 2008 season turned out ok for the Steelers. ;)

It's just too early to pass judgement on the 2013 Steelers

this game reminded me of that one as well. except seeing what the steelers could do when they were shooting full throttle in all aspects of the game gave more reason to keep our chins up. Here's to week 2 i suppose :tt03:

HollywoodSteel
09-12-2013, 04:44 PM
This is a case of you having your eyes wide shut. Tomlin's coaching deficiencies were on full display this past Sunday and there is no denying it. One glaring example was the botched handoff between Ben and Redman. That play was doomed from the start because they had the wrong personnel group on the field for that play. The only person that realized that was Redman, but the play was allowed to happen anyways. The person initially responsible for that screw up was, Haley, but if Tomlin was actually engaged as to what was going on he should have called for a time out. In addition, Tomlin has had issues with poor clock management and it happened again in this game. I don't care how you attempt to spin it, but there is no excuse for him to go into the season having a seventh round draft pick as the main back up to every position along the line and to ask that player, whom has very limited experience, to also be asked to play the center position, the most important position on the line, with absolutely no experience doing so in college or the pros. To add insult to injury, this same player is also being asked to play tight end. The only other back up offensive lineman wearing a uniform on game day is a free agent that graded out as the worst guard in the league last season. There is no getting around the fact that to remove the stench of an 8-8 season, the year before, you don't put the hopes of accomplishing that goal by gambling that you can get through the season with an offensive line that has yet to get through a season uninjured... With two questionable back ups and neither being a true center.

Very good points all around, but one thing that is indisputable is that no one can blame roster decisions on poor execution. And like you say, if you are going to put all of your depth eggs in one basket, do you really want to have an offensive strategy that exposes that one guy to injury by playing him at TE? These are just mistakes you don't see other solid head coaches in the NFL make.

And while I am not calling for Tomlin's head I will still ask the question I've been asking for the past couple of years: what exactly is Tomlin so good at? I am not being facetious. I am totally open to being won over. I know he is not a great clock manager. I know he isn't the greatest motivator using speeches and emotions (unleash hell, etc.) I know that he doesn't make the best roster decisions (as has been in evidence not just this year with our line depth, but need I remind everyone about Mahan, and even worse, going into a season with Jonathan Scott as our starting LT?) I know that his team often loses to or just barely beats less talented teams (once or twice I can blame on player execution, but as often as it happens, how is that not coaching?). I know he doesn't make the best hires (the best decision he's ever made in that dept. was not getting rid of LeBeau, but really anyone with a double digit IQ could have made that no-brainer). Whatever his part in the drafting process is, it hasn't been all that impressive. I find it hard to believe that he watches film and figures out how to out game plan the other team.

So what is it? Is he an offensive guru? Me thinks not. A special teams guru? We've been a joke in that dept. A defensive guru? Fortunately he doesn't have to be (and his sticking with our 3-4 rather than going with his own more familiar history with the 4-3 lends credence to the notion that our defensive game planning and coaching is pretty much all Labeau).

No one can argue that Tomlin exudes swagger and charisma, and you can easily see how he must have impressed the ownership with his presence alone, but really, is that all he has going for him? If he has some kind of brilliant coaching mind like Bill Belichick, Shawn Payton, Jim Harbaugh, or even Jon Gruden that I just am not seeing, then please people, educate me.

60_MINUTES
09-12-2013, 06:46 PM
Very good points all around, but one thing that is indisputable is that no one can blame roster decisions on poor execution. And like you say, if you are going to put all of your depth eggs in one basket, do you really want to have an offensive strategy that exposes that one guy to injury by playing him at TE? These are just mistakes you don't see other solid head coaches in the NFL make.

And while I am not calling for Tomlin's head I will still ask the question I've been asking for the past couple of years: what exactly is Tomlin so good at? I am not being facetious. I am totally open to being won over. I know he is not a great clock manager. I know he isn't the greatest motivator using speeches and emotions (unleash hell, etc.) I know that he doesn't make the best roster decisions (as has been in evidence not just this year with our line depth, but need I remind everyone about Mahan, and even worse, going into a season with Jonathan Scott as our starting LT?) I know that his team often loses to or just barely beats less talented teams (once or twice I can blame on player execution, but as often as it happens, how is that not coaching?). I know he doesn't make the best hires (the best decision he's ever made in that dept. was not getting rid of LeBeau, but really anyone with a double digit IQ could have made that no-brainer). Whatever his part in the drafting process is, it hasn't been all that impressive. I find it hard to believe that he watches film and figures out how to out game plan the other team.

So what is it? Is he an offensive guru? Me thinks not. A special teams guru? We've been a joke in that dept. A defensive guru? Fortunately he doesn't have to be (and his sticking with our 3-4 rather than going with his own more familiar history with the 4-3 lends credence to the notion that our defensive game planning and coaching is pretty much all Labeau).

No one can argue that Tomlin exudes swagger and charisma, and you can easily see how he must have impressed the ownership with his presence alone, but really, is that all he has going for him? If he has some kind of brilliant coaching mind like Bill Belichick, Shawn Payton, Jim Harbaugh, or even Jon Gruden that I just am not seeing, then please people, educate me.


i think your spot on. If he can turn this team that has a losing streak and overall team confidence problem around and make playoffs then I will support him from now on. It shouldn't be hard with number 1 D and HOF QB. But he has found a way to go 2-6 thus far.

To me he's absolutely no different than BARRY SWITZER , here me out on this one. I truly believe its not all Tomlins fault. I think it's just who he is and what he's attracted to. He has a philosophy difference and its not working. He maybe should be the raiders coach. we all seen what happen to cowboys after their players that jimmy built aged. They sucked terrible until ( Bill Parcels came in and turned. It around. Bill didn't stay long enough to finish the job but he certainly took the Quincy carter lead team and turned them around bringing in football hit u in the mouth players. COWHER and our Steelers had an IDENTITY . Now look at us. At FULLBACK we had DAN KREIDER and Jon Whitman. TOMLINS version of the 2007 opening day starter CAREY DAVIS. Tomlin thought his speed at the position would be great. Pretty clear davis was not close to being a smash mouth fullback and was a joke as a blocker. However for some reason Tomlin loved him. Even had him returning kicks. . Tomlin had out thought himself convinced that some kind of speed receiving FB was the way to go. At RB COWHER had the BUS. Team player hard nosed. Also guys like BAM MOrris and barry foster. Work horses. Enter TOMLINS guy. The politically correct fragile rashard mendenhall , chris Raineys of the world showed up. Tomlin likes their speed , ole how about the WR position. COWHER. Has HINES WARD. Ole PLEX was physical. TOMLIN. Mike Wallace. Good lord no need to say more here is it. What a difference in ward and Wallace. Tomlin likes that speed said best way to control O line problems was speed at the WR position ? Yep lots of folks shaking head after that quote. TE. Heath MILLER. Sword creek va TE. Tomlin likes David Johnson. On a bright note someone said DJ can dunk a basketball. I'm not sure Heath can do that or not. But he hits people in the mouth. We do have a tough QB ( oh wait he was already here ). Look we could go on and on with examples of tough nosed instinctive football players compared to soft look at me speedy guys. The bottom line is the type of players and philosophy has changed. Just like it did in Dallas. Tomlin needs to look for some more keisels millers wards Arron smiths. Farriers. Hokes. Etc. and get away from these premadonneass , lets hope he can turn it around. It's not looking good so far.

Mojouw
09-12-2013, 07:11 PM
Do we all remember the salary cap? The front office and whatever coaches they cared to consult kicked contracts down the road, gave 3rd and even 4th contracts to veterans, paid high dollars for internal re-signings all in the name of keeping a SB window open as long as possible. 3 appearances with 2 wins in a handful of years could be argued to be worth it. Now the piper is being paid. The Steelers are re-tooling on the fly. There is youth all over the roster, inexperience, and an almost total lack of depth (or at best proven depth). This is the result of needing to clear a crapload of red ink of the books. All teams go through this cycle in one manner or another. Some coaching staffs weather it better than most. It is only one week in. The sky is not falling yet.

Don't forget that in the past two years this was a team that looked primed for a playoff run until the franchise got injured. So goes it in the modern NFL. As your franchise QB goes...so does everything else.

steelerdude15
09-12-2013, 07:27 PM
I don't think Cowher played down to the competition. I firmly believe the Steelers use the ole Art of War strategy (can't remember exact verbiage) where you don't back your enemies into a corner which would make them desperate. Desperate teams have little to lose and will do things they normally wouldn't which then leads to comeback victories.

They keep it close and win it in the end. The problem is, to do that you need a solid team that CAN win it in the end. In years past, the Steelers would win close games in final minutes / seconds, now they are losing those same games ... if they are even in it at the end to begin with.

Anyway, I think this is a Steelers philosophy, NOT a Cowher one and b/c Tomlin is not fielding the same caliber team AS Cowher, that philosophy simply won't work.

That is why I think you rarely see the Steelers blow a team out. It's not because they can't (in the past that is) it is b/c they choose not too even if it's obvious that they "could" run up the score.

I say Tomlin needs to play to the strengths, which means pass, pass and more pass. Until they are ABLE to run a balanced offense, why not just pass. What's the difference if you lose by trying the run and are not able to and simply utilizing the pass more often and losing?

I have a feeling the Steelers are a good 3 years away from being in the mix. The o-line needs to come up to speed. They may make the playoffs, but they will not make any noise for at least 3 years I bet. They are in the classic re-building phase, like it or not.

If that is the Steelers philosophy, then I'll have to disagree with it. I would rather see them put the pedal to the floor and not let off.

If the Steelers are rebuilding or retooling, then they are. I wouldn't mind seeing a few bad years if that means the Steelers would have another decade of winning seasons with the possibility of winning a couple of Super Bowls.

SteelMayhem72
09-12-2013, 07:55 PM
Ben and LeBeau have kept Tomlin from being exposed. Wait until they're both gone and see what we have? Not saying he's awful, I'm just saying he needs to improve! A lot!

^^^^That is the honest to God truth!!!

SteelMayhem72
09-12-2013, 08:23 PM
Ive said it many times...there is NO other QB in the NFL that would have survived behind our O line other than Ben...our Defense is other worldly and should get even more credit to put up with our lackluster Offensive play at times. They played very well against the titans and I do believe they will get even better!!!

Psycho Ward 86
09-12-2013, 08:27 PM
Ive said it many times...there is NO other QB in the NFL that would have survived behind our O line other than Ben...our Defense is other worldly and should get even more credit to put up with our lackluster Offensive play at times. They played very well against the titans and I do believe they will get even better!!!

aaron rodgers

SteelMayhem72
09-12-2013, 08:32 PM
aaron rodgers

Nope!!! Hasnt been in the league long enough to say that

- - - Updated - - -


Nope!!! Hasnt been in the league long enough to say that

manning, brady, brees, rodgers, none of them! Rodgers is the tougher of the bunch but i believe after a while he would fold!

- - - Updated - - -

I think Ben is in the best shape he has been in a while...more disciplined

Craic
09-12-2013, 08:52 PM
i think your spot on. If he can turn this team that has a losing streak and overall team confidence problem around and make playoffs then I will support him from now on. It shouldn't be hard with number 1 D and HOF QB. But he has found a way to go 2-6 thus far.

To me he's absolutely no different than BARRY SWITZER , here me out on this one. I truly believe its not all Tomlins fault. I think it's just who he is and what he's attracted to. He has a philosophy difference and its not working. He maybe should be the raiders coach. we all seen what happen to cowboys after their players that jimmy built aged. They sucked terrible until ( Bill Parcels came in and turned. It around. Bill didn't stay long enough to finish the job but he certainly took the Quincy carter lead team and turned them around bringing in football hit u in the mouth players. COWHER and our Steelers had an IDENTITY . Now look at us. At FULLBACK we had DAN KREIDER and Jon Whitman. TOMLINS version of the 2007 opening day starter CAREY DAVIS. Tomlin thought his speed at the position would be great. Pretty clear davis was not close to being a smash mouth fullback and was a joke as a blocker. However for some reason Tomlin loved him. Even had him returning kicks. . Tomlin had out thought himself convinced that some kind of speed receiving FB was the way to go. At RB COWHER had the BUS. Team player hard nosed. Also guys like BAM MOrris and barry foster. Work horses. Enter TOMLINS guy. The politically correct fragile rashard mendenhall , chris Raineys of the world showed up. Tomlin likes their speed , ole how about the WR position. COWHER. Has HINES WARD. Ole PLEX was physical. TOMLIN. Mike Wallace. Good lord no need to say more here is it. What a difference in ward and Wallace. Tomlin likes that speed said best way to control O line problems was speed at the WR position ? Yep lots of folks shaking head after that quote. TE. Heath MILLER. Sword creek va TE. Tomlin likes David Johnson. On a bright note someone said DJ can dunk a basketball. I'm not sure Heath can do that or not. But he hits people in the mouth. We do have a tough QB ( oh wait he was already here ). Look we could go on and on with examples of tough nosed instinctive football players compared to soft look at me speedy guys. The bottom line is the type of players and philosophy has changed. Just like it did in Dallas. Tomlin needs to look for some more keisels millers wards Arron smiths. Farriers. Hokes. Etc. and get away from these premadonneass , lets hope he can turn it around. It's not looking good so far.

There's quite a bit a disagree with here, mainly in that the "identity" you bring up is precisely an identity of losing how many AFCCGs with that mentality? It wasn't until we started to shed that identity and go with the passing with Ben that we even got to the SB. I know the stats make it look like we ran, ran, ran, but in truth, we passed, passed, ran, in the first half, then got up on teams and took the air out of the football.

Nevertheless, my reason for posting was to say that if this had been your first post . . . I wouldn't have had any problems with this thread. My issue isn't criticism, its that I actually want to see criticism in a thread that attempts to criticizes. I will admit however, back to your post here, that the issue of drafting for a particular methodology is much better. The problem though, is that the methodology had to change with the times. It's much easier to draft for a run first, run always offense. It takes a lot of time to learn how to draft for a different approach. Eight years . . . I'm not so sure about. But hey, at least it's not the 1980s again.

Mistah Q
09-15-2013, 02:05 AM
OMnat Epipks is a Tearrible tcaothch

Craic
09-15-2013, 02:46 AM
OMnat Epipks is a Tearrible tcaothch


Kids, this is why you don't post drunk.

:chuckle:

st33lersguy
09-15-2013, 10:23 AM
OMnat Epipks is a Tearrible tcaothch

English, do you speak it? :chuckle:

Count Steeler
09-15-2013, 10:40 AM
OMnat Epipks is a Tearrible tcaothch


Kids, this is why you don't post drunk.

:chuckle:

The trouble is I understand it and I'm not drunk.

Psycho Ward 86
09-15-2013, 07:31 PM
Nope!!! Hasnt been in the league long enough to say that



lol he's been in the league for 8 years.

on an unrelated note, i dont buy into this "salary cap sucks because we had to pay top dollar to vets to keep the superbowl window open." the packers and patriots salary cap situations look just fine and they arent doing what were doing. inb4 someone points out how many rings we have..

60_MINUTES
09-16-2013, 10:57 PM
Way to go Barry Switzer. Once again we are a joke. The player personal Tomlin has picked is a joke. Not playing a full back is a joke. Playing a very slow in effective redman a joke. Keeping and starting a guy that should be out of football. ( Wilson ) is a joke . Playing his boy worilds at all in front of Jarvis jones is a joke. Another great team outing led by Barry Tomlin

st33lersguy
09-16-2013, 11:54 PM
It has become perfectly clear that Momlin rode Cowher's team to success. There are still some of Cowher's team leftover and look how bad they look. Tomlin is clueless. Haley is no better than what Arians was.

steel9guy
09-16-2013, 11:57 PM
As long as we have Isaac Redman running we should get 15 yards a game rushing.

Seven
09-16-2013, 11:58 PM
It has become perfectly clear that Momlin rode Cowher's team to success. There are still some of Cowher's team leftover and look how bad they look. Tomlin is clueless. Haley is no better than what Arians was.

:doh:

60_MINUTES
09-17-2013, 12:15 AM
It has become perfectly clear that Momlin rode Cowher's team to success. There are still some of Cowher's team leftover and look how bad they look. Tomlin is clueless. Haley is no better than what Arians was.


Thank u. This is the best quote I've read in years. Tomlin is absolutely pathetic. I've said this many times. U want to know what happened to steelers ? Mike Tomlins idea of success is drafting mike Wallace. Bill cowhers idea of success is drafting Hines ward. Tomlin. Soggy hood. Cowher. Arron smith. Tomlin. Rashard M is his idea of a back. While cowher likes a guy like bettis. It's a different mind set and different culture of a team. Thanks mike Tomlin for changing what the steelers took 40 years to build. Mike Tomlin is absolutely no different than Raheem Morris. None.

Seven
09-17-2013, 12:29 AM
This thread has officially turned into a comedy.

fansince'76
09-17-2013, 12:36 AM
Mike Tomlins idea of success is drafting mike Wallace. Bill cowhers idea of success is drafting Hines ward. Tomlin. Soggy hood. Cowher. Arron smith.

And Troy Edwards...and Scott Shields...and Kendrick Clancy...and Hank Poteat...and Chad Scott...and Ricardo Colclough...and Willie Reid...

...not to mention not only starting, but stubbornly sticking with a player as "his guy" at QB for FIVE seasons who had no business playing QB in the first place, and who should have been playing WR instead while flushing a good chunk of Bettis' prime years as a player down the toilet in the process (a failed experiment that lasted three years longer than it should have - if you notice, nobody's willing to mortgage half a decade of their team's fortunes for Tebow to get his shit together and that was essentially the same thing)...

:coffee:

Seven
09-17-2013, 12:41 AM
And Troy Edwards...and Scott Shields...and Kendrick Clancy...and Hank Poteat...and Chad Scott...and Ricardo Colclough...and Willie Reid...

...not to mention not only starting, but stubbornly sticking with a player as "his guy" at QB for FIVE seasons who had no business playing QB in the first place, and who should have been playing WR instead while flushing a good chunk of Bettis' prime years as a player down the toilet in the process (a failed experiment that lasted three years longer than it should have - if you notice, nobody's willing to mortgage half a decade of their team's fortunes for Tebow to get his shit together and that was essentially the same thing)....

http://www.steelersuniverse.com/forums/images/smilies/coffee.gif

Don't forget about Shawn Andrews, who Cowher wanted to draft instead of Ben. It's a real shame that didn't happen. Tomlin's idea of success is drafting Maurkice Pouncey. Cowher? SHAWN ANDREWS. :chuckle:

fansince'76
09-17-2013, 12:49 AM
Don't forget about Shawn Andrews, who Cowher wanted to draft instead of Ben. It's a real shame that didn't happen.

Yes, damn that meddling Dan Rooney! We were set at QB just fine with (Turnover) Tommy Maddox! :chuckle:

salamander
09-17-2013, 06:07 AM
I'm not saying to fire anyone but I really have to start questioning our coaches' decision making at times.

NJarhead
09-17-2013, 06:13 AM
Yes, damn that meddling Dan Rooney! We were set at QB just fine with (Turnover) Tommy Maddox! :chuckle:

This thread should be relegated to the "Trolls Only" group discussion.

Now where's Lee Flowers when you need him? haha

60_MINUTES
09-17-2013, 06:15 AM
U really want to compare overall drafts ? Really lol. The entire 2008 draft is gone. Also who brought up pouncey ? Lol I'm quite sure a guy playing off the street just played as solid as we've seen at center in two years. I can't believe you even want to compare drafts. That's the funniest thing in history. Sure there will always be duds. But then there's. Arron smith. Brent keisel. Heath miller Hines ward Ike Taylor , Troy P , Alan F. Marvel smith , etc,,, and on and on. Heck look at some of those guys drafted at 6 th. 3rd. 4 th. Troy p might be the best football player I've ever saw.


Good lord. U want to compare drafts and then bring up pouncey. Lol. Exactly what do we really know about pouncey ? What I saw last night suggest pouncey hasn't been who we thought he was for a while.

NJarhead
09-17-2013, 06:52 AM
U really want to compare overall drafts ? Really lol. The entire 2008 draft is gone. Also who brought up pouncey ? Lol I'm quite sure a guy playing off the street just played as solid as we've seen at center in two years. I can't believe you even want to compare drafts. That's the funniest thing in history. Sure there will always be duds. But then there's. Arron smith. Brent keisel. Heath miller Hines ward Ike Taylor , Troy P , Alan F. Marvel smith , etc,,, and on and on. Heck look at some of those guys drafted at 6 th. 3rd. 4 th. Troy p might be the best football player I've ever saw.


Good lord. U want to compare drafts and then bring up pouncey. Lol. Exactly what do we really know about pouncey ? What I saw last night suggest pouncey hasn't been who we thought he was for a while.

Ummm, you're the one who initiated the draft comparison. Cowher had some bad years as well including an 0-2 start and back-to-back shit years. I suppose you forgot the Kordell Stewart years. I'll grant you, we could run the ball and had great defense, but I'll attribute our running struggles on getting away from the run for all those years under Arians.


"Not playing a full back is a joke." - you

We'd just added that position back last year and he was hurt last week.

Is it Tomlins fault we couldn't stop the run? Is it Tomlins fault Paulson fumbled? Is it Tomlins fault Clark bit on a TE route? Is it Tomlins fault Ben kept throwing too high? Is it Tomlins fault Cotchery tipped that pass up in the air? Is it Tomlins fault that dip shit ref perceived Gilbert as tripping?

Yea, our running game sucks and our o-line is lacking, but we were in that game last night.

Dwinsgames
09-17-2013, 06:59 AM
Worst coached team in football (http://www.steelersuniverse.com/forums/showthread.php/18215-Worst-coached-team-in-football/page6)

this

zulater
09-17-2013, 07:01 AM
this

I wouldn't go that far.They aren't the worst coached team in the league. But they aren't a well coached team at the moment either. And that's enough to cause concern.

NJarhead
09-17-2013, 07:02 AM
this

I don't agree. We're just in transition and we've suffered some significant injuries.

60_MINUTES
09-17-2013, 07:03 AM
Ummm, you're the one who initiated the draft comparison. Cowher had some bad years as well including an 0-2 start and back-to-back shit years. I suppose you forgot the Kordell Stewart years. I'll grant you, we could run the ball and had great defense, but I'll attribute our running struggles on getting away from the run for all those years under Arians.



We'd just added that position back last year and he was hurt last week.

Is it Tomlins fault we couldn't stop the run? Is it Tomlins fault Paulson fumbled? Is it Tomlins fault Clark bit on a TE route? Is it Tomlins fault Ben kept throwing too high? Is it Tomlins fault Cotchery tipped that pass up in the air? Is it Tomlins fault that dip shit ref perceived Gilbert as tripping?

Yea, our running game sucks and our o-line is lacking, but we were in that game last night.


i agree some of those things may not be his fault but that's the way it works. It all runs back to your coach. It is his fault Jason worilds. One of the worst football players in the NFL was taking snaps away from Jarvis jones who almost had 2 game changing plays. It's his fault redman is on the field. Shit al woods has more speed than redman. Bottom line. The product Tomlin has on the field is different than the identity we've had for 40 years. Our toughness has been replaced with what mike likes in speed , Tomlin was and still is a WR. He's soft but talks a good game if u ask me

Dwinsgames
09-17-2013, 07:12 AM
I wouldn't go that far.They aren't the worst coached team in the league. But they aren't a well coached team at the moment either. And that's enough to cause concern.

what other team in the league has as much talent on their roster and sits at 0-2 ?

what other team in the league sits dead last in O ?

what other team in the league has been on the wrong side of T.O.P by a combined 72 min vs 48 ?

NJarhead
09-17-2013, 07:14 AM
i agree some of those things may not be his fault but that's the way it works. It all runs back to your coach. It is his fault Jason worilds. One of the worst football players in the NFL was taking snaps away from Jarvis jones who almost had 2 game changing plays. It's his fault redman is on the field. Shit al woods has more speed than redman. Bottom line. The product Tomlin has on the field is different than the identity we've had for 40 years. Our toughness has been replaced with what mike likes in speed , Tomlin was and still is a WR. He's soft but talks a good game if u ask me

Two things:
I agree that Redman is no starting RB. He USED to be "Redzone Redman" because he could break some tackles and get 2-3 yards. I watched him run up to the line and stop instead of trying to plow the lone tackler in front of him, or shake the guy. But He wasn't the only RB out there last night.

I also disagree with you on the speed thing. Hence why Tomlin always referred to Mike Wallace as a "one trick pony." He like route runners, hence the Wheaton pick. Yes, I would have liked to see more of him, but from what I've always heard, WR is the toughest position to transition from college to pro at. On that note though, our lone TD came from a tall redzone threat type WR.

I'm not in disagreement that we have issues; again, we're in transition and we've suffered some key injuries. I'll never understand why our o-line can't run block better. Maybe that is on the o-line coach.

I like Tomlin. I think he is a great leader and motivator and I'd like to think I know a thing or two about that. I don't think you're giving him the credit he deserves.

The jury is still out on Haley. Let's see what we get when we get Heath and L. Bell back and some newer players have a few more practices under their belts. We're not, by any means, dead yet:

Ravens: 1-1
Bengals: 1-1
Steelers: 0-2
Browns:0-2

zulater
09-17-2013, 07:17 AM
what other team in the league has as much talent on their roster and sits at 0-2 ?

what other team in the league sits dead last in O ?


what other team in the league has been on the wrong side of T.O.P by a combined 72 min vs 48 ?


I think you overestimate the talent on this team. If you combined the rosters of the Steelers and Bengals last night how many Steelers are starting? This team lacks playmakers on both sides of the ball.

NJarhead
09-17-2013, 07:17 AM
what other team in the league has as much talent on their roster and sits at 0-2 ?

what other team in the league sits dead last in O ?

what other team in the league has been on the wrong side of T.O.P by a combined 72 min vs 48 ?

The NY Giants. The last time they went 0-2, they beat the 17-0 N.E. Patriots in the SB. The last time we went 0-2, we made it to the divisional round and lost last minute.

How many other teams have the key injuries that we do and employed brand new starters in the first two weeks? No one is running away with the division, so we're not dead yet.

Dwinsgames
09-17-2013, 07:19 AM
The NY Giants. The last time they went 0-2, they beat the 17-0 N.E. Patriots in the SB. The last time we went 0-2, we made it to the divisional round and lost last minute.

How many other teams have the key injuries that we do and employed brand new starters in the first two weeks? No one is running away with the division, so we're not dead yet.


no not yet , but we are snorkeling with a straw

NJarhead
09-17-2013, 07:21 AM
no not yet , but we are snorkeling with a straw

We need this group's "Lee Flowers: We WILL NOT be 0-3!" haha

60_MINUTES
09-17-2013, 07:24 AM
Two things:
I agree that Redman is no starting RB. He USED to be "Redzone Redman" because he could break some tackles and get 2-3 yards. I watched him run up to the line and stop instead of trying to plow the lone tackler in front of him, or shake the guy. But He wasn't the only RB out there last night.

I also disagree with you on the speed thing. Hence why Tomlin always referred to Mike Wallace as a "one trick pony." He like route runners, hence the Wheaton pick. Yes, I would have liked to see more of him, but from what I've always heard, WR is the toughest position to transition from college to pro at. On that note though, our lone TD came from a tall redzone threat type WR.

I'm not in disagreement that we have issues; again, we're in transition and we've suffered some key injuries. I'll never understand why our o-line can't run block better. Maybe that is on the o-line coach.

I like Tomlin. I think he is a great leader and motivator and I'd like to think I know a thing or two about that. I don't think you're giving him the credit he deserves.

The jury is still out on Haley. Let's see what we get when we get Heath and L. Bell back and some newer players have a few more practices under their belts. We're not, by any means, dead yet:

Ravens: 1-1
Bengals: 1-1
Steelers: 0-2
Browns:0-2


I agree we are not dead yet. Far as Tomlin goes. I think he's to busy trying to be somebody's buddy. It worked with the vets. But now our culture has changed. I just think Tomlin has ride coat tails. And now it's catching up with him. To me he's a twin to his best bud Raheem Morris but was lucky to coach the steelers with HOF players and dick L carrying his ass. So far sure seems that as these players age Tomlin is losing more and more of the team. Lets hope he can turn it around this week before we are dead in the water for good

Dwinsgames
09-17-2013, 07:24 AM
We need this group's "Lee Flowers: We WILL NOT be 0-3!" haha


in terms to the Giants , one also has to look at the records of the teams they played ... 3-1 combined ... whereas all the wins our opponents have are vs us .....

outlook gloomy at best would you not agree ?

NJarhead
09-17-2013, 07:27 AM
I agree we are not dead yet. Far as Tomlin goes. I think he's to busy trying to be somebody's buddy. It worked with the vets. But now our culture has changed. I just think Tomlin has ride coat tails. And now it's catching up with him. To me he's a twin to his best bud Raheem Morris but was lucky to coach the steelers with HOF players and dick L carrying his ass. So far sure seems that as these players age Tomlin is losing more and more of the team. Lets hope he can turn it around this week before we are dead in the water for good

Really? I couldn't disagree more. I've seen him drill the shit out of this team, including the vets. He's not shy about dishing out the shit to any player or coach and I can only speak of what I've seen broadcast. I'm sure there's much more behind the scenes. I've never heard anything but mad respect for him from former players and coaches.

NCSteeler
09-17-2013, 07:27 AM
Two things:
I agree that Redman is no starting RB. He USED to be "Redzone Redman" because he could break some tackles and get 2-3 yards. I watched him run up to the line and stop instead of trying to plow the lone tackler in front of him, or shake the guy. But He wasn't the only RB out there last night.

I also disagree with you on the speed thing. Hence why Tomlin always referred to Mike Wallace as a "one trick pony." He like route runners, hence the Wheaton pick. Yes, I would have liked to see more of him, but from what I've always heard, WR is the toughest position to transition from college to pro at. On that note though, our lone TD came from a tall redzone threat type WR.

I'm not in disagreement that we have issues; again, we're in transition and we've suffered some key injuries. I'll never understand why our o-line can't run block better. Maybe that is on the o-line coach.

I like Tomlin. I think he is a great leader and motivator and I'd like to think I know a thing or two about that. I don't think you're giving him the credit he deserves.

The jury is still out on Haley. Let's see what we get when we get Heath and L. Bell back and some newer players have a few more practices under their belts. We're not, by any means, dead yet:

Ravens: 1-1
Bengals: 1-1
Steelers: 0-2
Browns:0-2

HUGE disagreement here. Several years several games I have seen this team play flat and lifeless, that is on coach T

NJarhead
09-17-2013, 07:33 AM
in terms to the Giants , one also has to look at the records of the teams they played ... 3-1 combined ... whereas all the wins our opponents have are vs us .....

outlook gloomy at best would you not agree ?

The Giants, like us, shot themselves in the foot. They could have/should have beat the Cryboys (6 turnovers and they STILL could have won it). They could have beaten the high flying Broncos too, but shot themselves in the foot again with turnovers. 0-2 is 0-2. Yea, there are some shitty teams you'd expect that from, but I doubt you expected it here, just like they didn't expect it in NY.

I'm a glass-half-full type. It's not gloomy until it's gloomy. Right now they have things they need to correct and players they need to get back on the field. They still have time to get that done. 0-3 isn't out of the realm of possibility either. We have a good Bears team coming in and we're anything but confident right now, but I'd still not concede the season if we lost next week. Unless we lost more key players.

- - - Updated - - -


HUGE disagreement here. Several years several games I have seen this team play flat and lifeless, that is on coach T

Every team has played flat at one time or another. I recall hearing that until today, he has never been below .500. There have also only been two coaches in NFL history who went their whole careers without ever going below .500. Cowher, Noll and Lombardi, for that matter, aren't either of the two.

Dwinsgames
09-17-2013, 07:34 AM
Tomlin may motivate , but he is really handicapped in terms to having them prepared ... you can motivate your ass off with an unprepared unit and still fail miserably ...and we have

motivation after the fact falls well short of the mark ....

its like having a sniper that hits 400 out of 400 but he is shooting at 10 yards and you need him to make a shot of 400 yards chances are he is going to miss that shot when it counts

NJarhead
09-17-2013, 07:43 AM
I'd also like to point out that we've won the division 3 times since Tomlin's been here. Compared to the Ravens with 2 and the Bungles with 1.
We've also won the AFC title game in our house twice under him, which we all know was something Cowher struggled to do.

Disclaimer: I love Bill Cowher.

- - - Updated - - -


Tomlin may motivate , but he is really handicapped in terms to having them prepared ... you can motivate your ass off with an unprepared unit and still fail miserably ...and we have

motivation after the fact falls well short of the mark ....

its like having a sniper that hits 400 out of 400 but he is shooting at 10 yards and you need him to make a shot of 400 yards chances are he is going to miss that shot when it counts

Last night, the problem was our o-line. Can you tell me if that was personnel or coaching? Maybe both? That's not directly on Tomlin. He may have to light a fire under the ass of our OL coach.

Plus, we were rotating a rookie and a street FA at buck LB (due to injury) and coincidently the Bengals ran it well up the gut. Tomlin can only do so much. He has arguably the best DC in the league and we couldn't stop the run when we needed to. That's personnel to me (again, attributed to injury).

60_MINUTES
09-17-2013, 09:05 AM
I'd also like to point out that we've won the division 3 times since Tomlin's been here. Compared to the Ravens with 2 and the Bungles with 1.
We've also won the AFC title game in our house twice under him, which we all know was something Cowher struggled to do.

Disclaimer: I love Bill Cowher.

- - - Updated - - -



Last night, the problem was our o-line. Can you tell me if that was personnel or coaching? Maybe both? That's not directly on Tomlin. He may have to light a fire under the ass of our OL coach.

Plus, we were rotating a rookie and a street FA at buck LB (due to injury) and coincidently the Bengals ran it well up the gut. Tomlin can only do so much. He has arguably the best DC in the league and we couldn't stop the run when we needed to. That's personnel to me (again, attributed to injury).

It was Tomlin who deceided to keep Wilson. Who isn't half the player McFadden was At least. On tape as Tomlin says. Tomlins choice to play Wilson over Vince williams. Who was much better than Wilson during the game. Tomlins choice to continue to play redman. And worst Tomlins choice to play worilds and take away snaps from Jarvis jones. Who is playing his ass off compared to worilds.

NJarhead
09-17-2013, 09:06 AM
It was Tomlin who deceided to keep Wilson. Who isn't half the player McFadden was At least. On tape as Tomlin says. Tomlins choice to play Wilson over Vince williams. Who was much better than Wilson during the game. Tomlins choice to continue to play redman. And worst Tomlins choice to play worilds and take away snaps from Jarvis jones. Who is playing his ass off compared to worilds.

Actually, I would think Dick Lebeau had a lot of say in those decisions. Especially in personnel rotation.

86WARD
09-17-2013, 09:49 AM
I don't agree. We're just in transition and we've suffered some significant injuries.

Even without significant injuries, this team isn't good.

NJarhead
09-17-2013, 09:55 AM
Even without significant injuries, this team isn't good.

Our weak link is the o-line and by extension the running game, but we've been in both games with a chance to win. If we don't have those injuries maybe the outcome is different (we don't fumble away our first bit of momentum or put ourselves in the position to get that pick or rotate a rookie and a street FA at the Buck and give up big runs in the middle).

Dwinsgames
09-17-2013, 11:33 AM
Even without significant injuries, this team isn't good.


this

zulater
09-17-2013, 11:42 AM
Our weak link is the o-line and by extension the running game, but we've been in both games with a chance to win. If we don't have those injuries maybe the outcome is different (we don't fumble away our first bit of momentum or put ourselves in the position to get that pick or rotate a rookie and a street FA at the Buck and give up big runs in the middle).

Not that our o-line is playing great, but it's goes both ways with this team. Our backs aren't doing a helluva lot to to help out either. A few times last night it looked like the back went into the wrong hole. Also on the rare occasion they get to the second level, once there they have no wiggle. ?When was the last time a Steeler back made a defender miss in space? I guess it all comes down to Leveon Bell? A legitimate back might make the line blocking not seem to be such a problem? Or I hope so .

NJarhead
09-17-2013, 12:04 PM
Not that our o-line is playing great, but it's goes both ways with this team. Our backs aren't doing a helluva lot to to help out either. A few times last night it looked like the back went into the wrong hole. Also on the rare occasion they get to the second level, once there they have no wiggle. ?When was the last time a Steeler back made a defender miss in space? I guess it all comes down to Leveon Bell? A legitimate back might make the line blocking not seem to be such a problem? Or I hope so .

Not sure if you saw it too, or read my previous post about it, but I watched Foster pull right and not even attempt to block the LB he was assigned to block. In fact, dude ran right past Foster to tackle the RB in the back field. All Foster did was take up space.

I also watched Redman run to the line and stop ... where he was, of course, tackled immediately. But I think we're all in agreement about him. He needs to be the short yardage guy ONLY. And that's ONLY if he can prove he still has a nose for the end zone and first down marker.

zulater
09-17-2013, 12:09 PM
Not sure if you saw it too, or read my previous post about it, but I watched Foster pull right and not even attempt to block the LB he was assigned to block. In fact, dude ran right past Foster to tackle the RB in the back field. All Foster did was take up space.

I also watched Redman run to the line and stop ... where he was, of course, tackled immediately. But I think we're all in agreement about him. He needs to be the short yardage guy ONLY. And that's ONLY if he can prove he still has a nose for the end zone and first down marker.

Redman just isn't right. I don't know if it's physical, mental or some combination of the two. But while never great he's always been more than worth his roster spot in previous seasons. This years incarnation of Redman isn't close to being an NFL back. So regardless of what his issue is, he either has to improve or the Steelers need to stop putting him in there.

As far as Foster, I think he's a legitimate NFL guard. Or at least he has looked so in the past. So I have to wonder if he's being confused with the new approach being coaches this year?

NJarhead
09-17-2013, 12:16 PM
Redman just isn't right. I don't know if it's physical, mental or some combination of the two. But while never great he's always been more than worth his roster spot in previous seasons. This years incarnation of Redman isn't close to being an NFL back. So regardless of what his issue is, he either has to improve or the Steelers need to stop putting him in there.

At this point, I would settle for him just running into what ever is in front of him: Hole, defender, o-line. He'd at least pick up a yard or two falling forward.


As far as Foster, I think he's a legitimate NFL guard. Or at least he has looked so in the past. So I have to wonder if he's being confused with the new approach being coaches this year?

I don't know. I like him and he's seemingly a good teammate, but watching him pull and fail miserably concerned me.

We should probably acknowledge that we played a pretty good team in Cincy last night. We were in that game regardless of our short comings but had the rug pulled out from under us twice by turnovers and once by a phantom tripping call.

LLT
09-17-2013, 12:33 PM
I'd also like to point out that we've won the division 3 times since Tomlin's been here. Compared to the Ravens with 2 and the Bungles with 1.
We've also won the AFC title game in our house twice under him, which we all know was something Cowher struggled to do.

Disclaimer: I love Bill Cowher.

- - - Updated - - -


Last night, the problem was our o-line. Can you tell me if that was personnel or coaching? Maybe both? That's not directly on Tomlin. He may have to light a fire under the ass of our OL coach.

Plus, we were rotating a rookie and a street FA at buck LB (due to injury) and coincidently the Bengals ran it well up the gut. Tomlin can only do so much. He has arguably the best DC in the league and we couldn't stop the run when we needed to. That's personnel to me (again, attributed to injury).

Great Post. All legitimate points...even though most will ignore them.

Bottom line. This franchise has given us more to be grateful for...then any other football franchise can boast of. Its just unrealistic to think that we are never going to have a down year due to transition..injury...etc.

We have two choices....we can whine like a bunch of spoiled kids because we dont make the playoffs every year, or we can thank the football Gods that we are not the Bengals.

Personally...I get pissed off watching the games this year and I wince at the ineptness just like everyone else. But I understand and appreciate this teams history enough to write off the season...STILL enjoy MY team...and know that other fans would die for the success that the Steelers have had.

Again I'm not saying that we all cant be frustrated...but its not the end of the world or the end of the Steelers legacy....its a bad year. Put it into percpective.

zulater
09-17-2013, 12:53 PM
Great Post. All legitimate points...even though most will ignore them.

Bottom line. This franchise has given us more to be grateful for...then any other football franchise can boast of. Its just unrealistic to think that we are never going to have a down year due to transition..injury...etc.

We have two choices....we can whine like a bunch of spoiled kids because we dont make the playoffs every year, or we can thank the football Gods that we are not the Bengals.

Personally...I get pissed off watching the games this year and I wince at the ineptness just like everyone else. But I understand and appreciate this teams history enough to write off the season...STILL enjoy MY team...and know that other fans would die for the success that the Steelers have had.

Again I'm not saying that we all cant be frustrated...but its not the end of the world or the end of the Steelers legacy....its a bad year. Put it into percpective.

It will be easier to put in perspective when we can see the light at the end of the tunnel and we know it's not an oncoming train. Once upon a time the Pirates were a proud franchise, and if you were to suggest they'd suffer through 20+ seasons of losing ball you'd have been laughed at. Or if you want a football example, the Raiders were for years the goldstandard of football. Look where they're at now. What about the 49'ers before Harbitch?

When your management team slips and don't seem to understand what they're doing wrong the fall isn't necessarily going to be a brief one.

LLT
09-17-2013, 01:14 PM
It will be easier to put in perspective when we can see the light at the end of the tunnel and we know it's not an oncoming train. Once upon a time the Pirates were a proud franchise, and if you were to suggest they'd suffer through 20+ seasons of losing ball you'd have been laughed at. Or if you want a football example, the Raiders were for years the goldstandard of football. Look where they're at now. What about the 49'ers before Harbitch?

When your management team slips and don't seem to understand what they're doing wrong the fall isn't necessarily going to be a brief one.

But since none of us have a crystal ball...deciding if this team is going down the drain for the next 20 years is a choice. And again...I hate the way this team is playing and I can promise you that I'm watching these games at a fundemental level and its bad. Missed assignments...poor effort...and yes, terrible situational playcalling. The blame can be placed on a number of things....but at the end of the day its still a game and I move on.

Posters like yourself are very knowledgable and passionate. I understand and respect that. But there are SOME on this board, who think that complaining makes them look knowledgable, but who obviously dont understand the game on a fundamental level. It takes everything I have to bite my tongue and not ask them questions about route trees...defensive alignments...situational player substitution...etc.

First of all...I'll end up in a debate with someone who will be talking in circles...secondly, its pretentious and uninteresting to everyone else.

zulater
09-17-2013, 01:43 PM
But since none of us have a crystal ball...deciding if this team is going down the drain for the next 20 years is a choice. And again...I hate the way this team is playing and I can promise you that I'm watching these games at a fundemental level and its bad. Missed assignments...poor effort...and yes, terrible situational playcalling. The blame can be placed on a number of things....but at the end of the day its still a game and I move on.

Posters like yourself are very knowledgable and passionate. I understand and respect that. But there are SOME on this board, who think that complaining makes them look knowledgable, but who obviously dont understand the game on a fundamental level. It takes everything I have to bite my tongue and not ask them questions about route trees...defensive alignments...situational player substitution...etc.

First of all...I'll end up in a debate with someone who will be talking in circles...secondly, its pretentious and uninteresting to everyone else.

Great post! :applaudit:


And for clarification. I don't think Tomlin's a bad coach. But I do think he needs to coach better. And quickly please! :pray:

60_MINUTES
09-30-2013, 08:36 PM
Well he's now coached a team to 0-4 first time this has happened in over 40 years. And by the way he's achieved this with a 2 time Superbowl champ QB still in his prime. Yes while cowher was rebuilding he went 0-3 with kent graham mind u. Then won 5 straight. This isn't about cowher though he's been any gone. It's about coaching and in football more than any other sport coaching makes the team. The history of the NFL is proff of that. Most recently with Andy Reid. 2-14 chiefs now they are headed on a path to playoffs. Harbaugh for the 49 ers. Took a niner team that was very bad the year before arrival and with the same players kicked ass the next year.

Mike Tomlin should be in politics. For real the guy is a great speaker but can't offer the results as a leader. I still say he will be very good in this league for many years as a position coach. And truthly he would be top notch in college. He wouldn't have to be a great coach with the recruiting classes he would bring in. Anyway putting together a NFL team he is just plain bad at it. Lets thank him and kindly move on. We have no time to cont losing

I'm sure the Tomlins with your blinders on this board will say how wrong I am. All I can say is 0-4 with franchise QB what possible excuse do u have

GoSlash27
10-01-2013, 06:10 AM
I'm sure the Tomlins with your blinders on this board will say how wrong I am. All I can say is 0-4 with franchise QB what possible excuse do u have
I'm not real keen on Tomlin myself, but here's the excuse: You do not deep- six the current head coach 4 games into his first- ever losing season. You start doing that and pretty soon you're the Browns.
It'd be 3 years *minimum* before I'd consider firing the head coach a viable option. YMMV.

JayC
10-01-2013, 07:14 AM
Tomlin must go

NJarhead
10-01-2013, 07:53 AM
Well he's now coached a team to 0-4 first time this has happened in over 40 years. And by the way he's achieved this with a 2 time Superbowl champ QB still in his prime. Yes while cowher was rebuilding he went 0-3 with kent graham mind u. Then won 5 straight. This isn't about cowher though he's been any gone. It's about coaching and in football more than any other sport coaching makes the team. The history of the NFL is proff of that. Most recently with Andy Reid. 2-14 chiefs now they are headed on a path to playoffs. Harbaugh for the 49 ers. Took a niner team that was very bad the year before arrival and with the same players kicked ass the next year.

Mike Tomlin should be in politics. For real the guy is a great speaker but can't offer the results as a leader. I still say he will be very good in this league for many years as a position coach. And truthly he would be top notch in college. He wouldn't have to be a great coach with the recruiting classes he would bring in. Anyway putting together a NFL team he is just plain bad at it. Lets thank him and kindly move on. We have no time to cont losing

I'm sure the Tomlins with your blinders on this board will say how wrong I am. All I can say is 0-4 with franchise QB what possible excuse do u have

How many Super Bowls have Andy Reid and Jim Harbaugh won? Regardless, feel free to go join their fan base.

- - - Updated - - -


Tomlin must go

http://www.steelersuniverse.com/forums/image.php?u=57&dateline=1275189001

Oh the irony....

GBMelBlount
10-01-2013, 10:12 AM
No question Tomlin walked into the perfect situation by inheriting a great team.

Now Tomlin is finally experiencing adversity as EVERY other coach in the nfl has.

Adversity happens.

How he responds to this will determine how good he truly is imo.

Sure is nice and comfy in an armchair.

Craic
10-01-2013, 11:50 AM
It will be easier to put in perspective when we can see the light at the end of the tunnel and we know it's not an oncoming train. Once upon a time the Pirates were a proud franchise, and if you were to suggest they'd suffer through 20+ seasons of losing ball you'd have been laughed at. Or if you want a football example, the Raiders were for years the goldstandard of football. Look where they're at now. What about the 49'ers before Harbitch?

When your management team slips and don't seem to understand what they're doing wrong the fall isn't necessarily going to be a brief one.


But since none of us have a crystal ball...deciding if this team is going down the drain for the next 20 years is a choice. And again...I hate the way this team is playing and I can promise you that I'm watching these games at a fundemental level and its bad. Missed assignments...poor effort...and yes, terrible situational playcalling. The blame can be placed on a number of things....but at the end of the day its still a game and I move on.

Posters like yourself are very knowledgable and passionate. I understand and respect that. But there are SOME on this board, who think that complaining makes them look knowledgable, but who obviously dont understand the game on a fundamental level. It takes everything I have to bite my tongue and not ask them questions about route trees...defensive alignments...situational player substitution...etc.

First of all...I'll end up in a debate with someone who will be talking in circles...secondly, its pretentious and uninteresting to everyone else.


Great post! :applaudit:


And for clarification. I don't think Tomlin's a bad coach. But I do think he needs to coach better. And quickly please! :pray:

Now, if this is the level of discussion that continues around here for the rest of the season, it'd be worthwhile to keep visiting the boards. Thank you both.

60_MINUTES
10-01-2013, 12:27 PM
[QUOTE=NJarhead;399195]How many Super Bowls have Andy Reid and Jim Harbaugh won? Regardless, feel free to go join their fan base.

- - - Updated - - -


I've been a steeler since I was 4 my friend. Started when playing flag football for the steelers 35 years ago. Since then I've come to see our boys from Virginia twice a year now for 24 years . The past several years those tickets have been free,, u can ponder on that for a while along with this. He's losing some of the locker room now. And that's a big problem. But we will see how it all shakes out. Either way I won't be going anywhere , they don't come any more die hard than myself. I just don't have blinders on, and I'm not alone reguardless of what u may think.

NJarhead
10-01-2013, 01:05 PM
How many Super Bowls have Andy Reid and Jim Harbaugh won? Regardless, feel free to go join their fan base.

- - - Updated - - -


I've been a steeler since I was 4 my friend. Started when playing flag football for the steelers 35 years ago. Since then I've come to see our boys from Virginia twice a year now for 24 years . The past several years those tickets have been free,, u can ponder on that for a while along with this. He's losing some of the locker room now. And that's a big problem. But we will see how it all shakes out. Either way I won't be going anywhere , they don't come any more die hard than myself. I just don't have blinders on, and I'm not alone reguardless of what u may think.

Sounds like we're about the same age and have been fans for about the same time. Other than that, nothing to ponder.

Where did you read or become informed that Tomlin is losing the locker room? I've seen no evidence of that, what-so-ever. His team has lost four in a row. That is all that has happened. I have little respect for the annual "sky is falling" types. I'm not going to apologize for that either.

BnG_Hevn
10-01-2013, 01:48 PM
I think that players with less than 4 years getting banned from the "playroom" speaks VOLUMES on the lack of leadership on this team.

Like I posted in another thread, it seems to me that the veteran players are not passing along the typical work ethic that goes along with being a Steeler. Ward / Porter's generation passed it along to Ben's generation, Ben's generation is dropping the ball.

If the players with less than 4 years experience are not learning the "proper work ethic", how is that going to affect the future players that are drafted?

It is up to the coaches to see that this happens, and it is NOT happening. You don't need to be a "sky is falling" type to see that. IMO, it is *not* about wins / losses, it is about the core of what makes the Steelers organization better than the likes of the Browns & Bengals. That line of difference is becoming more and more gray to me.

I'd be willing to bet that unless something drastic changes, this team will slip into mediocrity and if that happens, it will be a long and bumpy road for years to come.

NJarhead
10-01-2013, 02:10 PM
A good leader lets his subordinates learn to lead (i.e., the vets) which both are doing. I don't recall seeing anything regarding a work ethic issue. Rather, what I read was instead of spending your free time playing games, use it to study, get treatment, etc. This wouldn't be an issue if we were winning, but desperate times call for desperate measures. There is an issue and all of the leaders are working to fix it.

I guess I don't see what some of you see. Or, I just see it differently.

60_MINUTES
10-01-2013, 05:21 PM
I think that players with less than 4 years getting banned from the "playroom" speaks VOLUMES on the lack of leadership on this team.

Like I posted in another thread, it seems to me that the veteran players are not passing along the typical work ethic that goes along with being a Steeler. Ward / Porter's generation passed it along to Ben's generation, Ben's generation is dropping the ball.

If the players with less than 4 years experience are not learning the "proper work ethic", how is that going to affect the future players that are drafted?

It is up to the coaches to see that this happens, and it is NOT happening. You don't need to be a "sky is falling" type to see that. IMO, it is *not* about wins / losses, it is about the core of what makes the Steelers organization better than the likes of the Browns & Bengals. That line of difference is becoming more and more gray to me.

I'd be willing to bet that unless something drastic changes, this team will slip into mediocrity and if that happens, it will be a long and bumpy road for years to come.

spot on and well said. You've hit the nail in the head for sure.

There is also a very instresting article on a cite name steeler gridiron that goes in detail how coaching or lack there of is playing a major role. I will see if I can find a way to post it. I'm on iPhone so no promises.

60_MINUTES
10-01-2013, 05:28 PM
here is the article I copied it and pasted its from steeler gridiron page. I thought writer did well and makes lots of since. The non football fair weather fan would never see it this way. But those of you with football knowledge will enjoy some of the detailed views.

Or, in this case, just make the tackle.


If you spend any time listening to Steelers defensive coordinator Dick LeBeau speak about his defensive philosophy, it is all predicated on stopping the run, not allowing big plays and tackling the catch.


Against the Minnesota Vikings, the Steelers did none of that which led to a 34-27 loss and their first 0-4 start since 1968.


They allowed 145 yards rushing and three 50-plus yard plays for the first time in 15 years, but it all started with a missed tackle.


The Steelers missed 16 tackles, including a pair on special teams that led to 151 yards and directly to 14 of Minnesota's 34 points. The Steelers now have 41 missed tackles — the third most in the NFL, ranking only behind Washington and Jacksonville.


The biggest offender against the Vikings was cornerback Cortez Allen.


Allen missed three tackles, with the big one being a short 7-yard completion to Greg Jennings that he turned into a 70-yard touchdown. The score gave Minnesota a 10-0 first-quarter lead. The Vikings caught 16 passes for 248 yards Sunday and 154 of those yards came after the catch.


The other game-altering play came when four players missed tackles on Adrian Peterson — Vince Williams, Ike Taylor, LaMarr Woodley, Lawrence Timmons were the offending parties — led to a 60-yard touchdown run.


Allen (3), Williams (2), Woodley (2), Brett Keisel (2), Jarvis Jones (2), William Gay (1), Taylor (1), Polamalu (1), Timmons (1) and Shaun Suisham (1) accounted for all of the missed tackles in the game.


OTHER OBSERVATIONS


• Left tackle Mike Adams struggled, to say the least, as he was responsible for 3.5 of the Vikings' five sacks. You would think that after allowing a sack and getting called for holding Jared Allen (negating what would've been another sack early in the game) the coaching staff would provide some help for Adams. That wasn't the case. Only six times out of Ben Roethlisberger's 56 drop backs did Adams get a chip from a running back or tight end. Three of the sacks came when Adams didn't get any help from a chip.


• So, the Steelers were waiting for Le'Veon Bell's return to unveil the outside zone. Think again. Out of Bell's 16 carries, only two were with the outside zone scheme — gaining 4 and 5 yards. They did run it three other times, including once on Antonio Brown's reverse.


• It was quite obvious that the Steelers' defensive game plan was to keep everything in front of them and make sure they accounted for Adrian Peterson. That was evident with the Steelers uncharacteristically staying in their base defense for all but 10 snaps and rarely allowing Ike Taylor to play press-man coverage. Taylor pressed only nine times during the Vikings' 52 offensive snaps, and the majority of those presses came midway through the fourth quarter with the Steelers trailing 34-17. Cortez Allen pressed only four times on the other side of the formation.


• Troy Polamalu is listed as a strong safety, but you might as well call him a fifth linebacker. Polamalu lined up within the realm of the front seven on 48 of the 52 defensive snaps. He was asked to blitz only twice.


• The Steelers are a self-admitted run-right, between-the-tackles team. Against the Vikings, they were more diverse and more balanced. They ran the ball 10 times to the left and 10 times to the right while running around both end five times apiece.


• Rookie first-round pick Jarvis Jones is finding getting to the quarterback quite difficult in the NFL. In four games, he's knocked the quarterback down only once. Against the Vikings, he rushed 16 times and didn't register one hurry/pressure.


• Bell got all of the credit for his first-quarter touchdown run in which he bounced to the outside and outraced everybody to the corner of the end zone. However, it was fullback Will Johnson who made the play happen. Johnson was lined up outside of tight end David Johnson to the left. Johnson recognized Vikings linebacker Chad Greenway sneaking up in between Johnson and left tackle Marcus Gilbert. With Johnson blocking Brian Robison, and Gilbert required to double team the defensive tackle with David DeCastro, Greenway was left unblocked. Johnson crossed behind David Johnson and got a piece of Greenway that allowed Bell to bounce outside. With a block like that, you wonder why Will Johnson has played only 34 snaps and 14 run-block opportunities in four games.


Details
NOTABLE SNAP COUNTS


OFFENSE


• Mike Adams: 76 of 79


• Le'Veon Bell: 60 of 79


• M. Wheaton: 36 of 79

there was some more about snaps etc. but all didn't copy

Steeldude
10-02-2013, 06:30 AM
I think that players with less than 4 years getting banned from the "playroom" speaks VOLUMES on the lack of leadership on this team.

Like I posted in another thread, it seems to me that the veteran players are not passing along the typical work ethic that goes along with being a Steeler. Ward / Porter's generation passed it along to Ben's generation, Ben's generation is dropping the ball.

If the players with less than 4 years experience are not learning the "proper work ethic", how is that going to affect the future players that are drafted?

It is up to the coaches to see that this happens, and it is NOT happening. You don't need to be a "sky is falling" type to see that. IMO, it is *not* about wins / losses, it is about the core of what makes the Steelers organization better than the likes of the Browns & Bengals. That line of difference is becoming more and more gray to me.

I'd be willing to bet that unless something drastic changes, this team will slip into mediocrity and if that happens, it will be a long and bumpy road for years to come.

I have been saying for quite awhile the Steelers lack a true leader on defense. The team has no vocal leaders who know what they are doing.

The team's fundamentals, leadership and discipline fades more and more as they distance themselves from the Cowher era. The Steelers will need to look to free agency. The draft has been pretty much a joke. You won't find a Lloyd, Woodson, Lake, Kirkland, Steed, Dawson, Faneca, Ward etc... on this team.

One thing these young players do make sure of is they will celebrate and dance like fools when making routine plays. I blame Tomlin for that because it keeps happening. IMO, Tomlin is the same way. He's more into splash plays than consistent, solid football.

60_MINUTES
10-02-2013, 08:42 AM
I have been saying for quite awhile the Steelers lack a true leader on defense. The team has no vocal leaders who know what they are doing.

The team's fundamentals, leadership and discipline fades more and more as they distance themselves from the Cowher era. The Steelers will need to look to free agency. The draft has been pretty much a joke. You won't find a Lloyd, Woodson, Lake, Kirkland, Steed, Dawson, Faneca, Ward etc... on this team.

One thing these young players do make sure of is they will celebrate and dance like fools when making routine plays. I blame Tomlin for that because it keeps happening. IMO, Tomlin is the same way. He's more into splash plays than consistent, solid football.


Nice post , the players say it over and over Tomlin is just like them etc... You can't lead as an equal. Tomlin says all this great stuff but the results are right in front of us. Without cowher guys he's provided us with the first 0-4 team in 45 years. Its really hard to believe.

HollywoodSteel
10-02-2013, 09:29 AM
I think anyone who is coming to this forum at this point to post their opinions - positive, negative, clinical observations, or whatever - is clearly a fan who cares deeply about this team and should not have the nature of their fandom criticized. Obviously, their opinions are always open to discussion and criticism if that criticism is backed by some kind of substance, but their passion for the team has to be taken as a given, doesn't it? We're 0-4 yet many of us are still here.

I'm not even going to judge the guys who aren't coming around as often. I won't call them "fair weather" or anything like that. They're probably hurting too and handling it in their own way. Plus, if you love a tv show and it starts to suck, for whatever reasons, should the fans who start staying away be judged harshly or should that harsh judgement be reserved for the people making the show?

Anyway, just my opinion. Feel free to differ. :)

Steeldude
10-03-2013, 06:52 AM
Nice post , the players say it over and over Tomlin is just like them etc... You can't lead as an equal. Tomlin says all this great stuff but the results are right in front of us. Without cowher guys he's provided us with the first 0-4 team in 45 years. Its really hard to believe.

I won't say Tomlin is 100% at fault, but he is a large part of it. Colbert, the other coaches, the scouts and players deserve some of the blame too. As for Tomlin and his Blah Blah speeches...it's old. It was old years ago. IMO, I think he doesn't know what to do and he is starting to panic. Hopefully everything gets turned around, but I am very skeptical.

NJarhead
10-03-2013, 07:11 AM
I won't say Tomlin is 100% at fault, but he is a large part of it. Colbert, the other coaches, the scouts and players deserve some of the blame too. As for Tomlin and his Blah Blah speeches...it's old. It was old years ago. IMO, I think he doesn't know what to do and he is starting to panic. Hopefully everything gets turned around, but I am very skeptical.

Again, I'm not sure what you want him to do. He's coached some good teams and provided solid leadership in-my-opinion. Have they all made poor personnel decisions? Perhaps, but every team does that and you also have to consider that, due to all of our success, where we'd been picking in the draft.

Steeldude
10-03-2013, 08:18 AM
Again, I'm not sure what you want him to do. He's coached some good teams and provided solid leadership in-my-opinion. Have they all made poor personnel decisions? Perhaps, but every team does that and you also have to consider that, due to all of our success, where we'd been picking in the draft.

Improve the team. What do you want him to do? Are you suggesting that head coaches aren't a large part of a losing season?

NJarhead
10-03-2013, 08:29 AM
Improve the team. What do you want him to do? Are you suggesting that head coaches aren't a large part of a losing season?

Naturally. Can you elaborate?

NCSteeler
10-03-2013, 12:30 PM
This team is in bad need to find the next James Farrior and the next Alan Faneca, these guys had the heart, respect and communication skills to hold their units together . The Oline has been oon steady decline since losing Alan and the D front 7 has been down since losing Farrior. Overall there seems to be less and less leadership every season .

60_MINUTES
10-05-2013, 12:03 AM
Again, I'm not sure what you want him to do. He's coached some good teams and provided solid leadership in-my-opinion. Have they all made poor personnel decisions? Perhaps, but every team does that and you also have to consider that, due to all of our success, where we'd been picking in the draft.


it's the type of players he is bringing in. Wallace instead of wards. Jason worilds etc. we're are the lunch pale team players ? Tomlin wants the splash players and splash plays etc... We just need to get back to who we are. A good start to that is putting will Johnson on the field more. We need to hit people in the mouth like ward did. Not run around them like Wallace did. It's time for Tomlin to learn the Steeler way.

Texasteel
10-05-2013, 12:17 AM
In the games I have seen so far the player look lost and confused. I personally lay this at the feet of the coaching.

fansince'76
10-05-2013, 12:43 AM
We need to hit people in the mouth like ward did. Not run around them like Wallace did. It's time for Tomlin to learn the Steeler way.

While I agree in principle, that style of play really doesn't fly anymore in Goodell's pansy-ass league. Good, solid, physical play is being differentiated less and less from blatant cheap shots and is increasingly being punished with flags and fines.

Craic
10-05-2013, 02:04 AM
This team is in bad need to find the next James Farrior and the next Alan Faneca, these guys had the heart, respect and communication skills to hold their units together . The Oline has been oon steady decline since losing Alan and the D front 7 has been down since losing Farrior. Overall there seems to be less and less leadership every season .

Thanks for the laugh at reading Faneca and respect in the same sentence, and Faneca was one of the major factors in destroying this line. He caused a lot of conflict on the line, and even admitted to telling the younger players not to listen to the new coaches (Tomlin's guys) when they stepped on the field. I'll give you James Farrior. The guy was just amazing. Faneca, he was very good, but the way that he walked away from this organization said a whole lot about who he was.

Not the fact that he did leave, mind you, but the way ​in which he left.

Mistah Q
10-05-2013, 03:27 AM
and even admitted to telling the younger players not to listen to the new coaches (Tomlin's guys) when they stepped on the field
considering the past few years... maybe he knew what he was saying

NJarhead
10-05-2013, 08:40 AM
it's the type of players he is bringing in. Wallace instead of wards. Jason worilds etc. we're are the lunch pale team players ? Tomlin wants the splash players and splash plays etc... We just need to get back to who we are. A good start to that is putting will Johnson on the field more. We need to hit people in the mouth like ward did. Not run around them like Wallace did. It's time for Tomlin to learn the Steeler way.

Tomlin tried to develop Wallace. We let him go as much because he's a "one trick pony (-Mike Tomlin)" as the price tag.
Every swingin' d**k fan out there picks apart the draft after the fact. I'm not going to dispute those things with you since it's not a proven science. Also and again, due to our success in recent years, we'd been picking at the bottom of each round. They took, who the felt were the best available. They didn't pick "your guy." Sorry, don't know what to tell you.

I agree about Johnson being in the game more, etc.

Tomlin decides what Steelers football is. It appears to me that he's trying to undo the Arians era and re-introduce the FB into the running game. I have no issues with that.

- - - Updated - - -


While I agree in principle, that style of play really doesn't fly anymore in Goodell's pansy-ass league. Good, solid, physical play is being differentiated less and less from blatant cheap shots and is increasingly being punished with flags and fines.

That too.

And Hines Ward was a once-in-a-lifetime smash mouth WR. Hopefully he served as a roll model for a lot of up and comers though.

steeldawg
10-05-2013, 10:20 AM
Again, I'm not sure what you want him to do. He's coached some good teams and provided solid leadership in-my-opinion. Have they all made poor personnel decisions? Perhaps, but every team does that and you also have to consider that, due to all of our success, where we'd been picking in the draft.


it's the type of players he is bringing in. Wallace instead of wards. Jason worilds etc. we're are the lunch pale team players ? Tomlin wants the splash players and splash plays etc... We just need to get back to who we are. A good start to that is putting will Johnson on the field more. We need to hit people in the mouth like ward did. Not run around them like Wallace did. It's time for Tomlin to learn the Steeler way.

It was not Wallace instead of ward they don't even play the same position, you can not go back to playing smash mouth football if you want to win superbowls. There is really no way to keep up with a team like Denver playing 2 yards and a cloud of dust. Look at the top teams, none are smash mouth run first teams, the closest thing is KC maybe but they are more west coast finesse. You have to pass and score points in this league to stay competitive.

NJarhead
10-05-2013, 10:26 AM
It was not Wallace instead of ward they don't even play the same position, you can not go back to playing smash mouth football if you want to win superbowls. There is really no way to keep up with a team like Denver playing 2 yards and a cloud of dust. Look at the top teams, none are smash mouth run first teams, the closest thing is KC maybe but they are more west coast finesse. You have to pass and score points in this league to stay competitive.

That's weird, those are 60 minutes words, but the quote appears to be mine. I don't like that. haha

steeldawg
10-05-2013, 10:40 AM
That's weird, those are 60 minutes words, but the quote appears to be mine. I don't like that. haha

Lol I see that now, that was directed at 60 minutes not you.

60_MINUTES
10-05-2013, 01:38 PM
I guess I screwed up my my point. I know we can't win by playing 3 yards and a pile of dust. What I'm saying is the character and type of players and mindset had changed. We are soft with this Tomlin style of speed first guys. Yes u have to throw to win but u still need Steeler football players bit these soft guys. Tomlin would take a T.O over a wes welker. He would select a Wallace over a ward. A Ziggi hood over an Arron smith. Etc. in not comparing these guys in general what I'm saying is Tomlins mindset appears to be much different than the steeler way. We are soft all about me kind of players Aka pouncey. Watch him leave and head towards the phins in the off season. We need due hard Steeler guys that put the team first. Not guys promoting rap music after superbowl losses than twittering the fans and telling them I'm rich. Yeah yeah yeah he apologized just like he did for wearing the thug free herendanz hat. Anyway we need to draft Steeler football players and get back to business.

Spin it however u want. These past 7 years not many wards smiths keisels hamptons millers Etc. have been selected

NCSteeler
10-05-2013, 04:57 PM
Thanks for the laugh at reading Faneca and respect in the same sentence, and Faneca was one of the major factors in destroying this line. He caused a lot of conflict on the line, and even admitted to telling the younger players not to listen to the new coaches (Tomlin's guys) when they stepped on the field. I'll give you James Farrior. The guy was just amazing. Faneca, he was very good, but the way that he walked away from this organization said a whole lot about who he was.

Not the fact that he did leave, mind you, but the way ​in which he left.

When Alan was a Steeler he was a well respected among his peers. I could care less what eh told them about tomlin, he didn't adapt to change well, didn't like Ben, BUT in the locker room he was a leader. There has never been a story saying any different.

But more than him, I really think Potsie is sorely missed.

Craic
10-05-2013, 05:43 PM
When Alan was a Steeler he was a well respected among his peers. I could care less what eh told them about tomlin, he didn't adapt to change well, didn't like Ben, BUT in the locker room he was a leader. There has never been a story saying any different.

But more than him, I really think Potsie is sorely missed.

Actually, his last year here, there were plenty of stories saying different. Again, he actually came out and said that he was telling the line not to do what the coaches were telling them to do.

But year, Potsie is definitely missed. Then again, I think this is just a transition. We'll see a new edition soon enough, IMO. I remember feeling this way in the 2002, 2003 seasons as well, and shaking my head at the fact that Cowher just tweaked a bit here and there heading into 2004 (outside of Ben). Then, low and behold, 15-1, ripped off by the Pats on the way to the SB, and actually win the SB the next year.

steeldawg
10-05-2013, 08:01 PM
I guess I screwed up my my point. I know we can't win by playing 3 yards and a pile of dust. What I'm saying is the character and type of players and mindset had changed. We are soft with this Tomlin style of speed first guys. Yes u have to throw to win but u still need Steeler football players bit these soft guys. Tomlin would take a T.O over a wes welker. He would select a Wallace over a ward. A Ziggi hood over an Arron smith. Etc. in not comparing these guys in general what I'm saying is Tomlins mindset appears to be much different than the steeler way. We are soft all about me kind of players Aka pouncey. Watch him leave and head towards the phins in the off season. We need due hard Steeler guys that put the team first. Not guys promoting rap music after superbowl losses than twittering the fans and telling them I'm rich. Yeah yeah yeah he apologized just like he did for wearing the thug free herendanz hat. Anyway we need to draft Steeler football players and get back to business.

Spin it however u want. These past 7 years not many wards smiths keisels hamptons millers Etc. have been selected

the mindset has changed because the defense has changed, you don't see anymore hamptons and keisels and smiths because they where run stoppers and in a pass happy league you need pass rushers. you see more speed guys at wr than tough guys because linebackers are getting faster and covering so its a matchup thing. Some people may take T.O. over welker and Wallace over ward because they don't play the same position. If you need an outside receiver you take a Wallace or TO if you need a slot guy you take a welker ward type guy. Tomlin brought in cotchery who is a ward type guy, thats a better comparison.

stillers4me
10-05-2013, 08:54 PM
I don't think this defense has ever recovered from the loss of Aaron Smith.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk 4

zulater
10-07-2013, 08:13 AM
I don't think this defense has ever recovered from the loss of Aaron Smith.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk 4

I loved Aaron Smith, but this defense could use James Farrior circa 2003-8 more than Aaron.

tube517
10-07-2013, 09:26 AM
I loved Aaron Smith, but this defense could use James Farrior circa 2003-8 more than Aaron.

They could use both of them.

Sent from my SGH-I717 using Tapatalk 4

zulater
10-10-2013, 07:21 AM
I can give you an example of how poor coaching led to a wasted draft pick. We had Brian Hoyer last year, signed him after Ben's injury. According to Ryan Clark he had a live fastball. And showed big league potential. But we didn't bother to even keep him on the roster for the remainder of last year. As if bringing Byron Leftwich back for the final 2 or 3 games would really matter.

The thing is if we had kept Hoyer and recognized him for what he is, a legitimate young back up qb, then we don't waste a 4th round pick on Leron Landry. Nothing against Landry but this team had a shit load of needs, drafting a qb you hope wont take a meaningful snap for the next 4 years was a bad idea that was very much influenced by the Steelers coaches inability to recognize what they had.

NJarhead
10-10-2013, 07:42 AM
I can give you an example of how poor coaching led to a wasted draft pick. We had Brian Hoyer last year, signed him after Ben's injury. According to Ryan Clark he had a live fastball. And showed big league potential. But we didn't bother to even keep him on the roster for the remainder of last year. As if bringing Byron Leftwich back for the final 2 or 3 games would really matter.

The thing is if we had kept Hoyer and recognized him for what he is, a legitimate young back up qb, then we don't waste a 4th round pick on Leron Landry. Nothing against Landry but this team had a shit load of needs, drafting a qb you hope wont take a meaningful snap for the next 4 years was a bad idea that was very much influenced by the Steelers coaches inability to recognize what they had.

Landry Jones?

Anyway, I guess can't argue too much on the Hoyer debate, but Landry is an unknown with a potential up-side beyond that of Hoyer.

zulater
10-10-2013, 08:12 AM
My bad on Landry Jones. :doh: But the point remains, had they better recognized what they had in Hoyer do they draft Jones in the 4th round? The team had many holes to fill, had they been more cognizant of what they had they would have realized that qb depth wasn't that big of an issue. That 4th round pick could and should have been used better.

NJarhead
10-10-2013, 08:19 AM
My bad on Landry Jones. :doh: But the point remains, had they better recognized what they had in Hoyer do they draft Jones in the 4th round? The team had many holes to fill, had they been more cognizant of what they had they would have realized that qb depth wasn't that big of an issue. That 4th round pick could and should have been used better.

I'm not as good at examining drafts as many other are. I'm pretty pleased with our picks so far, but out of curiosity, who would you have chosen there?

zulater
10-10-2013, 08:23 AM
I'm not as good at examining drafts as many other are. I'm pretty pleased with our picks so far, but out of curiosity, who would you have chosen there?

I'm not a draftnic either. But our needs were great at tight end, nose tackle and inside linebacker. Even another guard or tackle to add competition to the line would have made more sense.

NJarhead
10-10-2013, 08:27 AM
I'm not a draftnic either. But our needs were great at tight end, nose tackle and inside linebacker. Even another guard or tackle to add competition to the line would have made more sense.

Yea, I can see that, but again, not being a "draftnic," as you put it, I wouldn't be able to tell you a thing about the value at the spot. I think they had good intentions in mind when took Jones though. I think you always need to be grooming a QB and judging by his college career, he could be our next QB at some point. But you're right, from what little we'd seen of Hoyer, he may have been able to fill that roll as well.

zulater
10-10-2013, 08:33 AM
Bottom line the next 12 weeks could go a long way to defining the rest of Mike Tomlin's tenure in Pittsburgh.

NJarhead
10-10-2013, 08:36 AM
Bottom line the next 12 weeks could go a long way to defining the rest of Mike Tomlin's tenure in Pittsburgh.

You think so? No matter what our record at the end of the season and let's say we go 6-10ish (or worse) next year, I still think he keeps his job. In fact, I doubt the "hot seat" is mentioned by anyone besides the media and the fan base.

zulater
10-10-2013, 08:56 AM
You think so? No matter what our record at the end of the season and let's say we go 6-10ish (or worse) next year, I still think he keeps his job. In fact, I doubt the "hot seat" is mentioned by anyone besides the media and the fan base.

Never said his job was in jeopardy. But his grip on this team could be. All I'm saying is a direction has to be chosen and followed in a sensibly fashion. If we can't figure out if the team is retooling, rebuilding, or just in need of the right tweaks then expect nothing but more of the same in 2014. Thus this year will go a long way towards defining the rest of his tenure in Pittsburgh. He needs to chose a path and follow it. That's all I'm saying. Right now we're off the trail completely.

NJarhead
10-10-2013, 09:02 AM
Never said his job was in jeopardy. But his grip on this team could be. All I'm saying is a direction has to be chosen and followed in a sensibly fashion. If we can't figure out if the team is retooling, rebuilding, or just in need of the right tweaks then expect nothing but more of the same in 2014. Thus this year will go a long way towards defining the rest of his tenure in Pittsburgh. He needs to chose a path and follow it. That's all I'm saying. Right now we're off the trail completely.

That's a good point and something I think will further prove my stance on Tomlin. I don't see him losing his grip on the team.

zulater
10-11-2013, 01:35 AM
Tomlin takes away Steelers' locker room games

The only game the Steelers are playing now is football.
Several weeks after the veteran players banned those with less than four years of experience from taking part in recreational locker room games, coach Mike Tomlin issued a team-wide ban on them.
Tomlin's directive means no table shuffleboard, pingpong or pool for veteran players such as Ben Roethlisberger and Ike Taylor, not just rookies such as Le'Veon Bell and Jarvis Jones, as the Steelers (0-4) trudge through their worst start since 1968.
“From his point, it was dividing the team in a way,” safety Ryan Clark said Thursday. “One sect of people couldn't do a certain thing, and he just wanted everybody to be together — because we're all in the losses together. We're all in the business of fixing this problem together. He didn't want anything to divide us.”
The games were added to the Steelers' South Side complex locker room in recent seasons as rewards for their Super Bowl appearances during the 2008 and 2010 seasons. Before then, the players often took part in basketball-like shooting games in which they shot balls made of rolled-up athletic tape into a wastebasket.
Clark said veterans with Super Bowl experience banned the younger players from the games because they wanted them to earn the right to play them, just as the more experienced players did.
Roethlisberger also said the younger players were “getting comfortable” with their NFL life before they had earned their way. But he defended the games for the more experienced players, saying they built team camaraderie.
The pool table, shuffleboard table and pingpong table remained in the locker room Thursday, but the sticks and paddles used to play them weren't visible.


Read more: http://triblive.com/sports/steelers/4862036-74/games-players-locker#ixzz2hOPFiI3Y
Follow us: @triblive on Twitter | triblive on Facebook

:applaudit:

Better late than never. But this was a move that had to be made because of the actions the "08'ers" took.

Seven
10-11-2013, 01:47 AM
I think Tom Coughlin and his staff have a bone to pick with the OP :chuckle:

NJarhead
10-11-2013, 06:07 AM
Tomlin takes away Steelers' locker room games

The only game the Steelers are playing now is football.
Several weeks after the veteran players banned those with less than four years of experience from taking part in recreational locker room games, coach Mike Tomlin issued a team-wide ban on them.
Tomlin's directive means no table shuffleboard, pingpong or pool for veteran players such as Ben Roethlisberger and Ike Taylor, not just rookies such as Le'Veon Bell and Jarvis Jones, as the Steelers (0-4) trudge through their worst start since 1968.
“From his point, it was dividing the team in a way,” safety Ryan Clark said Thursday. “One sect of people couldn't do a certain thing, and he just wanted everybody to be together — because we're all in the losses together. We're all in the business of fixing this problem together. He didn't want anything to divide us.”
The games were added to the Steelers' South Side complex locker room in recent seasons as rewards for their Super Bowl appearances during the 2008 and 2010 seasons. Before then, the players often took part in basketball-like shooting games in which they shot balls made of rolled-up athletic tape into a wastebasket.
Clark said veterans with Super Bowl experience banned the younger players from the games because they wanted them to earn the right to play them, just as the more experienced players did.
Roethlisberger also said the younger players were “getting comfortable” with their NFL life before they had earned their way. But he defended the games for the more experienced players, saying they built team camaraderie.
The pool table, shuffleboard table and pingpong table remained in the locker room Thursday, but the sticks and paddles used to play them weren't visible.


Read more: http://triblive.com/sports/steelers/4862036-74/games-players-locker#ixzz2hOPFiI3Y
Follow us: @triblive on Twitter | triblive on Facebook

:applaudit:

Better late than never. But this was a move that had to be made because of the actions the "08'ers" took.

I'm with ya. :applaudit: