Steelers Mike Tomlin Explains Why Jonathan Dwyer Was The Odd Man Out At Running Back

[polamalubeast]

The Pittsburgh Steelers waived running back Jonathan Dwyer over the weekend and head coach Mike Tomlin was asked Tuesday during his press conference if something outside of football led to the team parting ways with their former sixth-round draft pick.

"No, it was really about what we thought the other guys could give us," said Tomlin. Obliviously we drafted and acquired Le'Veon Bell in the second round and he has that type of pedigree. Isaac Redman has done some nice things situationally for us in short-yardage and goal-line.

"LaRod Stephens-Howling has really consistent hands and showed some third down capabilities and Felix Jones - first-round pedigree - and quickly proved that he can do some positive things in terms of running the football and placing the ball where it's supposed to go.

"So we based our decisions based on what we see and what guys do and we like the guys that we kept and really, our focus is on those guys."


read more


http://www.steelersdepot.com/2013/09/mike-tomlin-explains-why-jonathan-dwyer-was-the-odd-man-out-at-running-back/

[Bluecoat96]

But..but..I thought it wasn't the coaches decision to release Dwyer!

[fansince'76]

But..but..I thought it wasn't the coaches decision to release Dwyer!

Obviously just more "coachspeak" and lies... :rolleyes:

[tube517]

Obviously just more "coachspeak" and lies... :rolleyes:

That's jive coaching

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I717 using Tapatalk 4

[steeldawg]

This is an outrage Tomlin, don't you know dwyer had 623 yards last season! What do you mean first and second round pedigree? Don't you know that draft position has nothing to do with your talent level and your likelihood to play! Hogwash! There is no way to know that guys with first and second round pedigrees could possibly amass 623yds, bring back dwyer! bring back dwyer! :sarcasm2:

Dwyer = CHUMP

[Count Steeler]

Dwyer and Beanie Wells visiting with the Giants.

[salamander]

But Dwyer was our leading rusher last year!! :rolleyes:

[86WARD]

Dwyer and Beanie Wells visiting with the Giants.

Called that one...

[st33lersguy]

Dwyer has just been too inconsistent

[Seven]

So basically - we cut potentially a featured back for a short yardage guy, a third down player and a very poor man's Willie Parker. Great. :chuckle:

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I understand why the move was made. It was Redman vs. Dwyer from the outset and the team settled on Redman. I just don't buy releasing the superior player because Isaac Redman has done "some good things in short yardage situations." The truth is Dwyer was in the doghouse and the staff wouldn't let him out. And since the team has all their eggs in LeVeon Bell's basket, it was easy to cut bait now. Not blaming them if that was their reason, I don't know what went on behind closed doors. Just don't tell me it's because Redman is a decent short yardage back, Mike.

[steeldawg]

this is dwyer's 4th year in the league and he has just over 700yds rushing for his career. There is no potential to be a featured back, that's why he was cut. Poor work ethic, slow feet, poor vision, poor speed, bad receiver, bad short yardage runner, I just don't see where his potential to be a feature back is. Redman is not our back of the future, Leveon bell is so why not have a guy on the roster who still has value after bell returns, there is nothing dwyer does that redman can't do.

[Dwinsgames]

there is nothing dwyer does that redman can't do.


you truly are clueless aren't you ....

One thing Redman couldn't do was lead the team in rushing in any of his 4 years in the league even when given the chance to be the starter ... But Dwyer did it in his same 3 years of service ( two actually because he was only active 1 week his rookie year )

[steeldawg]

you truly are clueless aren't you ....

One thing Redman couldn't do was lead the team in rushing in any of his 4 years in the league even when given the chance to be the starter ... But Dwyer did it in his same 3 years of service ( two actually because he was only active 1 week his rookie year )

name one thing in dwyers skill set that redman cant do or doesn't do better. Dwyer got cut get over it! the steelers like what redman can do better than dwyer. Omg he had 600 yards last season please stop with this rushing leader garbage it is such a weak argument especially for a rushing attack that finished 26th in the league.

[Steeldude]

please stop with this rushing leader garbage

Isn't that the so-called garbage you used to defend Mendenhall?

The rushing attack was mainly due to a poor O-line.

Fyi, you do know that Dwyer is faster than Bell?

[steeldawg]

Isn't that the so-called garbage you used to defend Mendenhall?

The rushing attack was mainly due to a poor O-line.

Fyi, you do know that Dwyer is faster than Bell?

I never said bell was fast but hardly a difference between 4.59 and 4.6. But bell has quick feet good acceleration and very good agility strength, vision, excellent receiver etc. Ask any nfl scout who the better back is between bell and dwyer and who is more likely to be a feature back and I guarantee all of them will say bell. Im done with this ridiculous argument the guy we didn't want got cut plain and simple if he was soooo good he would be on the team and if he was sooo productive we would not of drafted bell to be the future back. I don't see Arizona scooping up dwyer to come start over mendenhall because of his amazing 600yd season maybe it has to do with mendys 3500yds 4.1ypc and 29 tds.

[Seven]

there is nothing dwyer does that redman can't do.

Except for the fact that Dwyer has higher top end speed, has more yards after contact and higher production per touch...?

[steeldawg]

Except for the fact that Dwyer has higher top end speed, has more yards after contact and higher production per touch...?

Very skewed with redman running short yardage and goaline and just so you know redman averages 4.2ypc for his career vs. dwyer 4.3ypc on almost 100 more carries and short yardage duties. And again redman is not a feature back either he is just a stop gap till bell comes back in which he will go back to his short yardage duties. If felix jones knew the offense better and the protections he would be the one starting. Dwyer is not a starting caliber back and to prove that point you can watch as he wont be signed by a team till after week one. The reason teams do that is because if they sign a back who they don't want to keep after week one the contract is not guaranteed and they can release them when their real running back comes back.

[Seven]

Very skewed with redman running short yardage and goaline and just so you know redman averages 4.2ypc for his career vs. dwyer 4.3ypc on almost 100 more carries and short yardage duties.

That excuse got old the first time it was used. Who carried the ball on 3rd & short when Redman was injured? Oh I forgot, those short yardage situations don't count because it was Jonathan Dwyer who carried the ball. Even if I allow your excuse, Dwyer is still faster than Redman and has him in YAC. Therefore your declaration that Redman can do everything Dwyer can is proven completely wrong.

[steeldawg]

That excuse got old the first time it was used. Who carried the ball on 3rd & short when Redman was injured? Oh I forgot, those short yardage situations don't count because it was Jonathan Dwyer who carried the ball. Even if I allow your excuse, Dwyer is still faster than Redman and has him in YAC. Therefore your declaration that Redman can do everything Dwyer can is proven completely wrong.






Writes Sam Monson of Pro Football Focus: "Redman ended the year with just 128 touches, and while the Steelers' coaches seemed to favor Jonathan Dwyer, it was Redman that was doing more damage on his own with the ball in his hands. Dwyer touched the ball 174 times and forced 21 missed tackles on those touches, but Redman forced 38 from almost 50 fewer touches. In fact, Redman's rate of making people miss was the best mark in the entire league. He forced a miss every 3.4 touches, which betters the mark of even C.J. Spiller at the head of the pack, and is far better than the figure of a miss every 8.3 touches that Dwyer could claim."



PG graphic: Steelers' Blue Chip Grades
(Click image for larger version)

Redman also was second in the league last season in yards after contact, averaging three yards per carry after he was hit.

"It feels good for somebody to be able to get between the lines and figure out the numbers and see how valuable a guy really is," said Redman, who was not aware of Hornsby's work. "I always thought about little stats like that. If I would have known about that site a long time ago, I would have checked it out. You always wonder where you fit with other players around the league in certain categories, not just how many touchdowns or yards you have. It's the game inside the game that really helps teams really separate players to know who is better."


Read more: http://www.post-gazette.com/stories/sports/steelers/steelers-bustin-off-the-same-old-charts-699722/#ixzz2dzMn2xGr

[Chidi29]

Oh snap...

[steeldawg]

Oh snap...

Ya you think redman was tired of hearing about dwyer being the most productive running back? I was like wow when I saw that quote.

[60_MINUTES]

Why is this hard for some of u to understand. We didn't cut Dwyer for redman. We cut Dwyer because he sucks and has no use what so ever compared to the backs in camp. Redman is the best short yardage back. Way better than Dwyer. So Dwyer Is out there. Howlings is way better and faster out the backfield so Dwyer is out there. Of course we drafted Bell to be the feature back. So only shot Dwyer had was to beat out Felix jones. I and any other guy with any knowledge would give jones a shot when Dwyer has already had 4 years of chances and came in fat and out of shape most of those years. I'll bet anyone a dollar that Dwyer won't be on a roster in two years. That's in the event he finds one this year.

[Seven]

Writes Sam Monson of Pro Football Focus: "Redman ended the year with just 128 touches, and while the Steelers' coaches seemed to favor Jonathan Dwyer, it was Redman that was doing more damage on his own with the ball in his hands. Dwyer touched the ball 174 times and forced 21 missed tackles on those touches, but Redman forced 38 from almost 50 fewer touches. In fact, Redman's rate of making people miss was the best mark in the entire league. He forced a miss every 3.4 touches, which betters the mark of even C.J. Spiller at the head of the pack, and is far better than the figure of a miss every 8.3 touches that Dwyer could claim."



PG graphic: Steelers' Blue Chip Grades
(Click image for larger version)

Redman also was second in the league last season in yards after contact, averaging three yards per carry after he was hit.

"It feels good for somebody to be able to get between the lines and figure out the numbers and see how valuable a guy really is," said Redman, who was not aware of Hornsby's work. "I always thought about little stats like that. If I would have known about that site a long time ago, I would have checked it out. You always wonder where you fit with other players around the league in certain categories, not just how many touchdowns or yards you have. It's the game inside the game that really helps teams really separate players to know who is better."


Read more: http://www.post-gazette.com/stories/sports/steelers/steelers-bustin-off-the-same-old-charts-699722/#ixzz2dzMn2xGr

And this proves Redman can do "everything" Dwyer can how exactly? I'm guessing you're backing down from that claim since Dwyer is faster than Redman.

[steeldawg]

And this proves Redman can do "everything" Dwyer can how exactly? I'm guessing you're backing down from that claim since Dwyer is faster than Redman.

Lol really that's what you come back with? No my claim is stands dwyer might be a little faster than redman but that doesn't give him any unique capabilities to make any runs that redman cant. because when your talking about dwyers speed compared to redmans your just saying one slow guy is not as slow as the other slow guy.

[Seven]

Lol really that's what you come back with? No my claim is stands dwyer might be a little faster than redman but that doesn't give him any unique capabilities to make any runs that redman cant. because when your talking about dwyers speed compared to redmans your just saying one slow guy is not as slow as the other slow guy.

Right. So except for the fact that Dwyer is faster, runs for more yards after contact and produces more yards per touch, Redman can do everything he can. Sounds about right.

[steeldawg]

Why is this hard for some of u to understand. We didn't cut Dwyer for redman. We cut Dwyer because he sucks and has no use what so ever compared to the backs in camp. Redman is the best short yardage back. Way better than Dwyer. So Dwyer Is out there. Howlings is way better and faster out the backfield so Dwyer is out there. Of course we drafted Bell to be the feature back. So only shot Dwyer had was to beat out Felix jones. I and any other guy with any knowledge would give jones a shot when Dwyer has already had 4 years of chances and came in fat and out of shape most of those years. I'll bet anyone a dollar that Dwyer won't be on a roster in two years. That's in the event he finds one this year.

I think it's very simple as well I had dwyer packing his bags at the beginning of camp.

[Psycho Ward 86]

And this proves Redman can do "everything" Dwyer can how exactly? I'm guessing you're backing down from that claim since Dwyer is faster than Redman.

i cant believe im saying this but wow, steeldawg doesnt just have a good point. he has many. Dwyer just has too much going against him in comparison to Redman. Work ethic, weight problems, bad as a receiving option, far worse in YAC, terrible at reading blocks, worse at short yardage, and apparently far more elusive. and dwyer and redman ranked #1 and #2 respectively in PFF so we arent really losing much as far as blocking.

http://triblive.com/sports/steelers/4197896-74/bell-running-backs#axzz2WOZDCAZW

[steeldawg]

Right. So except for the fact that Dwyer is faster, runs for more yards after contact and produces more yards per touch, Redman can do everything he can. Sounds about right.

Did you even read what I posted above, your assessment that dwyer runs for more yards after contact is wrong, and he does not produce more yards per touch his career average is 4.3 redmans is 4.2 on more carries and being used as the short yardage back. Your boyfriend got cut get over it.

[Seven]

i cant believe im saying this but wow, steeldawg doesnt just have a good point. he has many. Dwyer just has too much going against him in comparison to Redman. Work ethic, weight problems, bad as a receiving option, far worse in YAC, terrible at reading blocks, worse at short yardage, and apparently far more elusive. and dwyer and redman ranked #1 and #2 respectively in PFF so we arent really losing much as far as blocking.

http://triblive.com/sports/steelers/4197896-74/bell-running-backs#axzz2WOZDCAZW

I'm not taking issue with the fact that there are people who like Redman more than Dwyer. That conversation had its end for me a few days ago. I can understand the choice to keep Redman over Dwyer as things stand in reality - IE: work ethic, reliability, etc... but what I'm taking issue with, is 1. Coach Tomlin's stance that Redman has a roster spot and Dwyer doesn't because Redman is a good short yardage back. And 2. That Steeldawg said Redman can do "everything" Dwyer can and he is now backing down from that as was expected.

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Did you even read what I posted above, your assessment that dwyer runs for more yards after contact is wrong, and he does not produce more yards per touch his career average is 4.3 redmans is 4.2 on more carries and being used as the short yardage back. Your boyfriend got cut get over it.

You play the stats in favor of your argument. Years prior is a different story. Different line, different receivers, different offense. Last year behind the same line, same circumstances - Dwyer did things Redman has never done in his career /over.

[steeldawg]

I'm not taking issue with the fact that there are people who like Redman more than Dwyer. That conversation had its end for me a few days ago. I can understand the choice to keep Redman over Dwyer as things stand in reality - IE: work ethic, reliability, etc... but what I'm taking issue with, is 1. Coach Tomlin's stance that Redman has a roster spot and Dwyer doesn't because Redman is a good short yardage back. And 2. That Steeldawg said Redman can do "everything" Dwyer can and he is now backing down from that as was expected.

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You play the stats in favor of your argument. Years prior is a different story. Different line, different receivers, different offense. Last year behind the same line, same circumstances - Dwyer did things Redman has never done in his career /over.

Im not playing stats any kind of way Im simply putting redmans entire body of work against dwyer's entire body of work Im sorry if it destroys your argument. Don't tell me dwyer is better yards after contact when redman was better in yac last season on two high ankle sprains. Dwyer has done things redman has never done? like what? rush for 623yds? who cares the steelers sure didn't.

[Seven]

Im not playing stats any kind of way Im simply putting redmans entire body of work against dwyer's entire body of work Im sorry if it destroys your argument. Don't tell me dwyer is better yards after contact when redman was better in yac last season on two high ankle sprains. Dwyer has done things redman has never done? like what? rush for 623yds? who cares the steelers sure didn't.

You've already admitted Dwyer is faster than Redman. Therefore your declaration that Redman can do everything Dwyer can has been proven wrong. That's the only thing I was taking issue with. If your personal opinion is that Redman is a better runner than Dwyer, so be it. You certainly aren't the first to believe that.

[Craic]

name one thing in dwyers skill set that redman cant do or doesn't do better. Dwyer got cut get over it! the steelers like what redman can do better than dwyer. Omg he had 600 yards last season please stop with this rushing leader garbage it is such a weak argument especially for a rushing attack that finished 26th in the league.

Not get injured every second or third game.

[Seven]

Not get injured every second or third game.

But his ankle was injured! BOTH ankles were injured! Matterfact they were broken! Actually, they got blown off by a frag just like Rocky Bleier's leg and he STILL put up 3.6 yards per carry! He's so much better than Dwyer and he had SPRAINED. ANKLES. How can you expect him to perform, how can you expect him to not get injured, when he has cancer in his ankles? He couldn't possibly not get injured because he was injured. Your girlfriend cheated on you then got cut. Get over it. :eyebrows:

[steeldawg]

You've already admitted Dwyer is faster than Redman. Therefore your declaration that Redman can do everything Dwyer can has been proven wrong. That's the only thing I was taking issue with. If your personal opinion is that Redman is a better runner than Dwyer, so be it. You certainly aren't the first to believe that.

Just because dwyer is a little faster than redman doesn't mean they cant do the same things. Then I could make the argument that Redman is taller he is better in that department. Unless dwyer suddenly becomes a speed back the fact he is a little faster than redman means nothing. Both guys are slow so its not like the deciding attribute between them would ever be speed. Tomilin wouldn't say, well redman can make all the same runs, he blocks just as well, hes more powerful, hes a better receiver, but dwyer is faster lets keep dwyer. So my declaration that there is nothing dwyer can do that redman cnt still stands there isn't anything that dwyer gives us that redman cant but there are things that redman gives us that dwyer cant.

[Dwinsgames]

steeldawg is still butthurt Mendy humped ben in the pile instead of him in his piles a few years back

[Master Blaster]

Dwyer is gone. Redman is the projected starter. Arguing about two running backs that have yet to be anything other than decent backups is an exercise in stupidity.

[Steeldude]

Just because dwyer is a little faster than redman doesn't mean they cant do the same things. Then I could make the argument that Redman is taller he is better in that department. Unless dwyer suddenly becomes a speed back the fact he is a little faster than redman means nothing. Both guys are slow so its not like the deciding attribute between them would ever be speed. Tomilin wouldn't say, well redman can make all the same runs, he blocks just as well, hes more powerful, hes a better receiver, but dwyer is faster lets keep dwyer. So my declaration that there is nothing dwyer can do that redman cnt still stands there isn't anything that dwyer gives us that redman cant but there are things that redman gives us that dwyer cant.

Dwyer is also faster than Bell. It's interesting how you disregard speed when it benefits Dwyer, but when it works against him you use it as some determining factor that he is not a worthy RB.

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The Steelers now have a roster filled with fragile(appears) RBs.

[steeldawg]

Dwyer is also faster than Bell. It's interesting how you disregard speed when it benefits Dwyer, but when it works against him you use it as some determining factor that he is not a worthy RB.

- - - Updated - - -

The Steelers now have a roster filled with fragile(appears) RBs.

Why do you always put words in my mouth? I don't disregard speed but dwyer and bell are not fast so speed would not be a determining factor in starting one over the other. Dwyer runs 4.59, Bell a 4.6 it ridiculous to call him faster hell I would even bet bell is faster in pads due to his strength agility and size.

[KeiselPower99]

Never understood the anger of Dwyer being cut. We all knew it was either Redzone Redman or Mini Bus Dwyer. Dwyer came to mini camp out of shape and if your to be the feature guy thats unacceptable.

[Dwinsgames]

Never understood the anger of Dwyer being cut. We all knew it was either Redzone Redman or Mini Bus Dwyer. Dwyer came to mini camp out of shape and if your to be the feature guy thats unacceptable.

actually that is a misconception ( the bold )

He came to camp at his playing weight of 230 , he was over weight in OTAs ( which is 110% voluntary hence he did not even have to attend ) but did for the good of not only himself but the team in general ....

so he was in shape when it mattered ( when he had to be there ) he dropped 30 pounds in 2 months so he was working hard to be fit and in shape for camp .....

so many make such a big deal out of him being over weight in the off season , its called the off season for a reason ... Hampton used to blow up 50-60 pounds during the off season and come to camp 30 over his playing weight , it never cost him his job .....

for me his weight in his time off matters not to me ( be it him or anyone else ) as long as the day they report to camp they are ready to compete in reasonable conditioning and Dwyer did that he came to camp at 230 his supposed normal playing weight ....

[Craic]

actually that is a misconception ( the bold )

He came to camp at his playing weight of 230 , he was over weight in OTAs ( which is 110% voluntary hence he did not even have to attend ) but did for the good of not only himself but the team in general ....

so he was in shape when it mattered ( when he had to be there ) he dropped 30 pounds in 2 months so he was working hard to be fit and in shape for camp .....

so many make such a big deal out of him being over weight in the off season , its called the off season for a reason ... Hampton used to blow up 50-60 pounds during the off season and come to camp 30 over his playing weight , it never cost him his job .....

for me his weight in his time off matters not to me ( be it him or anyone else ) as long as the day they report to camp they are ready to compete in reasonable conditioning and Dwyer did that he came to camp at 230 his supposed normal playing weight ....

I agree, and the fact that he is ADD means that most likely, he needed the deadline ahead of him in order to motivate to lose the weight. And please, no one show their ignorance by saying, "If he can't get motivated blah blah blah." The disorder is what it is, and he handled it such a way that he was able to come into camp in shape and ready to go. I give him props for that. Sad he isn't playing with us anymore because he did have a few bursts that looked pretty nice, but the numbers game caught up to him . . . too many RBs and not enough good carries in his history.

[Master Blaster]

Dwyer was given every opportunity a player could ask for to become what the team hoped he would. From the time he was signed he failed to take full advantage of those opportunities because he lacked the maturity and self discipline to achieve what his coaches saw and expected of him. He has no one to blame, but himself for why he was cut. He admitted, in an interview, that up until this year he didn't take his approach to maintaining his conditioning seriously. It wasn't until he showed up to the O.T.A.'s thirty lbs. overweight and saw the disappointment in the coach's faces that the light, finally, went off in his head. So, between the end of the O.T.A.'s and camp he worked on his conditioning. That is commendable, but in his case, it was too little, too late. The result, the team had reached their limit of patience and rumors began circulating that the Steelers were looking to trade him. Further proof of their disillusionment with him was the decision to draft a R.B. in the draft and to bring in a couple of free agent R.B.'s, Howlings and Jones. At this moment he is still unemployed. It's time to stop dwelling on what could have been with him. That chapter is closed. It's time to move on.

[tube517]

Bouchette tweeted that Dwyer is going to be re-signed: https://twitter.com/EdBouchette/status/377036663538860032

[The Bark]

This is the same coaching staff that cut Redman who was clearly, without a doubt, the best RB during preseason a few years ago. I have a feeling had Tomlin been the HC in the 90's, The Bus would have been parked in the garage.

[The Bark]

actually that is a misconception ( the bold )

He came to camp at his playing weight of 230 , he was over weight in OTAs ( which is 110% voluntary hence he did not even have to attend ) but did for the good of not only himself but the team in general ....

so he was in shape when it mattered ( when he had to be there ) he dropped 30 pounds in 2 months so he was working hard to be fit and in shape for camp .....

so many make such a big deal out of him being over weight in the off season , its called the off season for a reason ... Hampton used to blow up 50-60 pounds during the off season and come to camp 30 over his playing weight , it never cost him his job .....

for me his weight in his time off matters not to me ( be it him or anyone else ) as long as the day they report to camp they are ready to compete in reasonable conditioning and Dwyer did that he came to camp at 230 his supposed normal playing weight ....


Exactly. And I'll go a step forward and say this is where Tomlin and his staff are horribly inconsistent and apparently have double-standards. Don't think these things don't have an impact on the rest of the team, because they do. Throw in how incidents with Ben, Rainey, Ta'amu and others have all been handled differently and it's not surprising what we see on the field is consistently inconsistent, too.

[Master Blaster]

This is the same coaching staff that cut Redman who was clearly, without a doubt, the best RB during preseason a few years ago. I have a feeling had Tomlin been the HC in the 90's, The Bus would have been parked in the garage.
Keeping with that scenario, right after Tomlin was hired his first free agent move was to replace all pro, Jeff Hartings with Sean Mahan, the human speed bump.

[The Bark]

Keeping with that scenario, right after Tomlin was hired his first free agent move was to replace all pro, Jeff Hartings with Sean Mahan, the human speed bump.

Yeah, that 5 year $17m contract worked out well. I'm sure the $4m signing bonus served him well when he couldn't make a team two years later.