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zulater
08-30-2013, 05:45 PM
Ramon Foster and David DeCastro graded out well according to the analysts at Pro Football Focus. Not including last night’s games, Foster had a No. 18 ranking and David DeCastro came in at No. 27 among all guards who saw snaps during the first three preseason games. John Malecki was at No. 41, Chris Hubbard at No. 71 and Guy Whimper at No. 109.

Now comes the bad news. The starting tackles and center were ranked among the worst at their position.

The highest-ranked offensive tackle on the roster was reserve Kelvin Beachum, who was No. 79 among all tackles that saw action in the preseason. Joe Long was next with at No. 117, then Marcus Gilbert at No. 125 and Mike Adams at No. 136.

The most interesting thing I noticed with the offensive tackle grades was PFF’s breakdown between the run and the pass. Gerry Dulac reported early in training camp that Marcus Gilbert was moved to right tackle because he is a better run-blocker than Mike Adams, but Gilbert graded out the worst among the four Steelers tackles still on the roster in terms of run-blocking. Long ranked as the best run-blocker of the group. Beachum was by far the best pass protector of the bunch.

Pro Bowl center Maurkice Pouncey did not have a good preseason, according to PFF. He ranked dead-last among the 67 centers that saw action in the preseason (first three games). His pass protection grade was the worst of any center.

One more bit of good news that might have you feeling more positive about the season: Ben Roethlisberger played very well in the exhibition games. He ranked No. 2 among all quarterbacks, behind only Drew Brees.

http://plus.sites.post-gazette.com/index.php/pro-sports/steelers/122484-ray-the-good-news-and-the-bad-news-with-the-o-line

Looks like another year of Ben having to defy the odds to make plays in order for the Steelers to win. How great could Ben have been if he had an average offensive line to work with for the majority of his career?

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By the way I'm not worried about Pouncey. But our tackles are a major concern!

Dwinsgames
08-30-2013, 05:53 PM
Max Starks is looking for work ....

SteelerFanInStl
08-30-2013, 05:56 PM
Max Starks is looking for work ....

Yep, I wonder if they'll bring him back? I'm sure that Ben is already asking.

Dwinsgames
08-30-2013, 05:57 PM
Yep, I wonder if they'll bring him back? I'm sure that Ben is already asking.


one can hope

polamalubeast
08-30-2013, 05:59 PM
Max Starks is looking for work ....

Starks is with the chargers

SteelerFanInStl
08-30-2013, 05:59 PM
Starks is with the chargers

Not any more. He was cut today.

Dwinsgames
08-30-2013, 06:01 PM
Starks is with the chargers


no he is not .... not anymore

http://www.kffl.com/hotw/nfl


Chargers | 10 players cut (http://www.kffl.com/gnews.php?id=868245-chargers-10-players-cut)Fri, 30 Aug 2013 15:27:24 -0700The San Diego Chargers (http://www.kffl.com/team/31/nfl/san-diego-chargers) have released SS Sean Cattouse (http://www.kffl.com/player/26194/nfl/sean-cattouse), LB Phillip Dillard (http://www.kffl.com/player/22673/nfl/phillip-dillard), CB Gregory Gatson (http://www.kffl.com/player/26723/nfl/gregory-gatson), LB Jerrell Harris (http://www.kffl.com/player/26221/nfl/jerrell-harris), CB William Middleton (http://www.kffl.com/player/21149/nfl/william-middleton), LB Daniel Molls (http://www.kffl.com/player/28484/nfl/daniel-molls), OT Randy Richards (http://www.kffl.com/player/28485/nfl/randy-richards), OG Stephen Schilling (http://www.kffl.com/player/24130/nfl/stephen-schilling), OT Max Starks (http://www.kffl.com/player/9603/nfl/max-starks) and WR Luke Tasker (http://www.kffl.com/player/28056/nfl/luke-tasker).


Read more: http://www.kffl.com/hotw/nfl#ixzz2dUpfmp3E

polamalubeast
08-30-2013, 06:05 PM
I had not seen!

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The starters of the o-line were okay against the Chiefs, but against the Redskins, it was a disaster

zulater
08-30-2013, 06:16 PM
Starks was cut for a reason. He had a horrible preseason. I doubt he's the answer.

Dwinsgames
08-30-2013, 06:21 PM
Starks was cut for a reason. He had a horrible preseason. I doubt he's the answer.


maybe he had a tough time trying to protect a guy he didn't like ?


Ben is his friend , you try harder for friends perhaps ?

not saying he is the answer but most counted him out a long time ago but all he did was produce when called upon ... hell he had a pretty damn good year last year for us

SteelerFanInStl
08-30-2013, 06:27 PM
maybe he had a tough time trying to protect a guy he didn't like ?


Ben is his friend , you try harder for friends perhaps ?

not saying he is the answer but most counted him out a long time ago but all he did was produce when called upon ... hell he had a pretty damn good year last year for us

I agree. Max played well last year.

polamalubeast
08-30-2013, 06:30 PM
Max Starks had a bad night Thursday. Worse, the game film provided no relief on Friday. There were no gaffes by other Chargers backups that compromised Starks in pass protection. It was simple: 49ers edge rushers whipped the left tackle in four one-on-one matchups over a span of eight dropbacks Thursday night. None of those 49ers are starters.

The breakdowns came in all flavors--speed rushes to both sides and a bull rush that rocked the 6-foot-8, 345-pounder. Beyond the three sacks, Starks allowed a hit on Charlie Whitehurst that led to a 49ers touchdown off an interception.

All of the hits came in 2.6 seconds or under. Whitehurst is lucky to have survived.

read more


http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2013/aug/30/max-starks-niners-chargers/

Dwinsgames
08-30-2013, 06:33 PM
Max Starks had a bad night Thursday. Worse, the game film provided no relief on Friday. There were no gaffes by other Chargers backups that compromised Starks in pass protection. It was simple: 49ers edge rushers whipped the left tackle in four one-on-one matchups over a span of eight dropbacks Thursday night. None of those 49ers are starters.

The breakdowns came in all flavors--speed rushes to both sides and a bull rush that rocked the 6-foot-8, 345-pounder. Beyond the three sacks, Starks allowed a hit on Charlie Whitehurst that led to a 49ers touchdown off an interception.

All of the hits came in 2.6 seconds or under. Whitehurst is lucky to have survived.

read more


http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2013/aug/30/max-starks-niners-chargers/


put Guy Whimper at LT vs those same attacking 49ers and he probably gives up 7 sacks .... say what you will but Starks is an upgrade over what we have and that is a fact

Count Steeler
08-30-2013, 07:24 PM
I'm hoping this is just growing pains and getting used to a new system and a new coach. I see the OLine getting better as the season progresses and they get in tune with one another. I think the Steelers dig a hole for themselves in the first half of the season, and then start to come on strong. If they make the playoffs, they will be the team that no one wants to play.

ALLD
08-30-2013, 07:33 PM
Give BB a good OL and we go to the SB. Playing behind a mediocre one and we might make the playoffs. Sooner or later he will get tired of running for his life and skip teams.

stillers4me
08-30-2013, 07:37 PM
373581656113700865

Craic
08-30-2013, 09:10 PM
No Starks. Please, no Starks. I liked the guy while he was here, was ecstatic about his play after he came back after being cut, but we've moved on. We have a very young O line. We need to give them work and let them grow up together in a new scheme. Enough with the shuffling.

Shoes
08-30-2013, 09:18 PM
No Starks. Please, no Starks. I liked the guy while he was here, was ecstatic about his play after he came back after being cut, but we've moved on. We have a very young O line. We need to give them work and let them grow up together in a new scheme. Enough with the shuffling.

I agree, Starks needs to move on to the next phase of his life.

tube517
08-30-2013, 09:24 PM
No Starks. Please, no Starks. I liked the guy while he was here, was ecstatic about his play after he came back after being cut, but we've moved on. We have a very young O line. We need to give them work and let them grow up together in a new scheme. Enough with the shuffling.

Not even for depth? I don't want to see him start but the depth behind the OL, other than Beachum, is suspect.

SteelerFanInStl
08-30-2013, 09:56 PM
Not even for depth? I don't want to see him start but the depth behind the OL, other than Beachum, is suspect.

It's worse than suspect, it's terrible.

Shoes
08-30-2013, 10:54 PM
It's worse than suspect, it's terrible.

:chuckle:

Craic
08-31-2013, 12:22 AM
Not even for depth? I don't want to see him start but the depth behind the OL, other than Beachum, is suspect.

I'd say depth is okay, except that we've moved to a truer form of the zone scheme, and he's never really been too fleet of foot.

jb500ex
08-31-2013, 06:33 AM
maybe he had a tough time trying to protect a guy he didn't like ?


Ben is his friend , you try harder for friends perhaps ?

not saying he is the answer but most counted him out a long time ago but all he did was produce when called upon ... hell he had a pretty damn good year last year for us
Really he had a good year you know he graded out as one of the worst lt's last year. That's why the steelers didn't sign him a d he was let go by the chargers

Master Blaster
08-31-2013, 07:23 AM
Starks was a forth round pick because the knock on him coming out of college was he was too slow footed. Cowher drafted him because he fit their power blocking scheme and run blocking was Max's best attribute. Max always suffered as a pass blocker because of his slow feet. In addition, Max's Mr. Nice guy personality was an issue with the team, hence the reason why he was never seen as the long term solution at left tackle. Bruce Ariens didn't like Max's passive persona because, as he said in an interview, Max lacks a mean streak. Ariens went on to say that he wants his lineman to be very aggressive. He said that he wanted guys that have a killer instinct, guys that are maulers. Max is the antithesis of what Ariens wanted. Fast forward to this off season and the Steelers hired Jack Bicknell Jr. as their O.L. Coach. Bicknell brought with him his desire to use an outside zone blocking scheme. It is for that reason why Max and Colon were not retained. Bicknell's reason was because both Max and Willie were the wrong fit for his scheme because they were too big and too slow to be able to pull and block in space. That was a big reason why Willie wasn't able to fully adjust to playing guard. He was too thickly built and as a consequence he was to slow to be able to pull and block down field. Max was cut by the Chargers because he was what he is, too slow footed to take on edge rushers. His future in the league, if any, will be as a backup.

Chidi29
08-31-2013, 07:53 AM
Keep in mind that while it's over three games, the sample size is still relatively small.

And very odd to see Gilbert grade out as such a poor run blocker. I thought he did a really good job. Especially at the 2nd level. Check the Redskins game and you'll find evidence of that three or four times.

HollywoodSteel
08-31-2013, 11:30 AM
I know the knocks on Starks. He doesn't seem to fit the nasty mold, but he has always been calmly confident and never intimidated by anyone. Show me another LT in this league that has handled Suggs as well as Starks has over the last few years.

I'm not saying I'd start him over Adams at this point, especially with the ZBS we now have, but I certainly wouldn't mind bringing him in for depth at T, because after Beachum we have none. And Beachum might also be the #1 fill in at other line positions, so if we sustain more that 1 injury we are toast.

I agree that we should not bring him until after the start of the season for the guaranteed salary thing. You could also argue that we should let him sit on the couch until we actually need him. I might agree with this except that we have a new system and I'd like to see him practicing with the team as soon as possible... and not getting too far out of shape.

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HollywoodSteel
08-31-2013, 11:35 AM
Keep in mind that while it's over three games, the sample size is still relatively small.

And very odd to see Gilbert grade out as such a poor run blocker. I thought he did a really good job. Especially at the 2nd level. Check the Redskins game and you'll find evidence of that three or four times.

I have no idea how this grading system actually works but it seems like most of our runs now are either to the left or cut back into the middle so that Gilbert did not have a whole lot of block attempts to judge properly. Also, if Dwyer chooses to bounce outside when he should have gone inside and Gilbert's man makes the tackle because Gilbert is intentionally pushing him outside, is that a knock on Gilbert?

* Chidi, I thought you'd appreciate that reminder about Dwyer :) *

Master Blaster
08-31-2013, 01:44 PM
Like I said, Max's future in the NFL is as a back up, period.

Chidi29
08-31-2013, 03:28 PM
I have no idea how this grading system actually works but it seems like most of our runs now are either to the left or cut back into the middle so that Gilbert did not have a whole lot of block attempts to judge properly. Also, if Dwyer chooses to bounce outside when he should have gone inside and Gilbert's man makes the tackle because Gilbert is intentionally pushing him outside, is that a knock on Gilbert?

* Chidi, I thought you'd appreciate that reminder about Dwyer :) *

Um, I'm just going off the top of my head right now (sitting alone in my TV station, exporting video, my life...) but with the ZBS (which again, is NOT being run every play or anywhere close to it) there is no "specific" hole to hit as there is in a power/man scheme. Usually the back reads the where the bubble (space) is. Inside runs try to go off the hip of the guard and OZ run to the butt of the TE. So it really does come down to the RBs vision to find a running lane. So to say where most of our runs go isn't completely fair because there isn't always a set in stone call.

As for PFF grades, I don't know for sure how they do it but I'm sure they do a good job. Best in the business.

one side only
08-31-2013, 03:54 PM
Bottom line is this roster, especially the offensive line, is not set in stone. They will add someone to the 53 when Spaeth is put on IR with designation for return. That happens Tuesday. Since they kept only 8 offensive linemen and linebackers, I imagine they add to either of those groups then. When Heath Miller is healthy, Michael Palmer gets cut and someone else gets added. There will be some shuffling after Week 1 as well.

HollywoodSteel
08-31-2013, 05:02 PM
Um, I'm just going off the top of my head right now (sitting alone in my TV station, exporting video, my life...) but with the ZBS (which again, is NOT being run every play or anywhere close to it) there is no "specific" hole to hit as there is in a power/man scheme. Usually the back reads the where the bubble (space) is. Inside runs try to go off the hip of the guard and OZ run to the butt of the TE. So it really does come down to the RBs vision to find a running lane. So to say where most of our runs go isn't completely fair because there isn't always a set in stone call.

As for PFF grades, I don't know for sure how they do it but I'm sure they do a good job. Best in the business.

I just meant what I remember seeing for the most part in preseason, which was the line mostly moving to the left and when the RB did cut back he didn't go all the way back around Gilbert. But I certainly didn't keep track and didn't see every play. I'm just saying I don't remember seeing Gilbert do a whole lot of bad run blocking, but I could be wrong. And sometimes when a back has a room to run inside but chooses to go around Gilbert instead (cough, Dwyer, cough) I'm not sure it's really Gilbert's fault, even though he might get dinged on the stats they're keeping.

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Like I said, Max's future in the NFL is as a back up, period.

That's fine, but he has more business being on the team than Whimper. Seems like the price is the same (vet minimum) so I don't see the problem swapping one for the other. But I think Tomlin has always had something against Starks (possibly for good reason. Who knows?). That's the only reason I could see for not making the swap at some point.

Dwinsgames
08-31-2013, 05:10 PM
I just meant what I remember seeing for the most part in preseason, which was the line mostly moving to the left and when the RB did cut back he didn't go all the way back around Gilbert. But I certainly didn't keep track and didn't see every play. I'm just saying I don't remember seeing Gilbert do a whole lot of bad run blocking, but I could be wrong. And sometimes when a back has a room to run inside but chooses to go around Gilbert instead (cough, Dwyer, cough) I'm not sure it's really Gilbert's fault, even though he might get dinged on the stats they're keeping.

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That's fine, but he has more business being on the team than Whimper. Seems like the price is the same (vet minimum) so I don't see the problem swapping one for the other. But I think Tomlin has always had something against Starks (possibly for good reason. Who knows?). That's the only reason I could see for not making the swap at some point.


if it was about money they would have cut wimpy and kept long then after week 1 signed a vet ( that way the contract would not be fully guaranteed )

Steeldude
08-31-2013, 05:29 PM
Starks was cut for a reason. He had a horrible preseason. I doubt he's the answer.

He's an upgrade over Gilbert and Adams.

The tackles playing poorly is not a surprise. I feel it's going to be a long season.

Master Blaster
09-01-2013, 08:50 AM
He's an upgrade over Gilbert and Adams.

The tackles playing poorly is not a surprise. I feel it's going to be a long season.
You're dead wrong. He Is Not an improvement over Gilbert and Adams. If he was he'd still be on the team. The only thing he has over Gilbert and Adams is experience. Max has maxed out.

Steeldude
09-01-2013, 10:16 AM
You're dead wrong. He Is Not an improvement over Gilbert and Adams. If he was he'd still be on the team. The only thing he has over Gilbert and Adams is experience. Max has maxed out.

Right, so Kordell was the starting QB on the team for 5+ years because....? Woodson was let go because other players were better?

Gilbert is soft and Adams looks lost. Who was the best tackle on the Steelers last year? Now the Steelers have Whimper...lol.

Dwinsgames
09-01-2013, 11:31 AM
Right, so Kordell was the starting QB on the team for 5+ years because....? Woodson was let go because other players were better?

Gilbert is soft and Adams looks lost. Who was the best tackle on the Steelers last year? Now the Steelers have Whimper...lol.


this ... just like I posted in the Dwyer thread a few moments ago ....

Dujuan Harris was cut here ( when we needed help at RB ) ends up starting in GB and was the starter this preseason over Lacy and Franklin two high round draft picks until he got hurt but he was not good enough for us when we needed help ...

this organization is not always right or we would win the Lombardi every year

HollywoodSteel
09-01-2013, 03:09 PM
if it was about money they would have cut wimpy and kept long then after week 1 signed a vet ( that way the contract would not be fully guaranteed )

So you agree with me that we should swap out Whimper for Starks? I can not figure how anyone could think otherwise, but maybe I'm overlooking something.

Dwinsgames
09-01-2013, 03:36 PM
So you agree with me that we should swap out Whimper for Starks? I can not figure how anyone could think otherwise, but maybe I'm overlooking something.


oh I agree ......

Starks is an NFL Lineman

Whimper is not ....

Starks is slow footed but can block anyone on any given Sunday

Whimper is quick footed and cant block anyone on any day of the week