Steelers @ Redskins Pre Season Game # 2 August 19 , 2013

[venom]

I want to see a great first half from our starters and of course , NO INJURIES !!!!

Go Steelers !!!

[Hindes204]

Any news on Bell? I hope they don't rush him back too quickly

[stillers4me]

369479132909809664

[NJarhead]

369479132909809664

Sweet!

[salamander]

Monday night football! Can't wait to not have to watch the game on my phone this week. :lol:

[Hindes204]

Sweet!

I just hope it's not too soon

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Sweet!

I just hope it's not too soon

[NJarhead]

I just hope it's not too soon

- - - Updated - - -



I just hope it's not too soon


I'm with ya. I guess we'll see.

As much as he stunk up the place last week, I'm looking forward to seeing Dwyer too.

[polamalubeast]

I want to see a better game of the Steelers today, especially in offense....The ST must be better too

[polamalubeast]

NFL on ESPN ‏@ESPNNFL 1m
"“If I was back coaching and didn’t have a QB, I’d offer the Redskins a 1st-round pick for Kirk Cousins. He’s THAT good.” - Jon Gruden

.....

[steeldawg]

I'm with ya. I guess we'll see.

As much as he stunk up the place last week, I'm looking forward to seeing Dwyer too.

?

[polamalubeast]

Look For Shorter Kickoffs From Shaun Suisham Against The Redskins


Pittsburgh Steelers head coach Mike Tomlin really doesn't know just how good or bad his kickoff coverage unit is thus far being as his kickers booted all four of their kickoffs last week against the New York Giants into the end zone for touchbacks. Because of that, Tomlin figures to have kicker Shaun Suisham ease up on his leg Monday night against the Washington Redskins.


read more



http://www.steelersdepot.com/2013/08/shaun-suisham-shorter-kickoffs-redskins/#axzz2cKZVOuGR

[SteelMayhem72]

.....
I was hoping we drafted him as well...matter of fact tomlin did visit him

[SteelerFanInStl]

Looking forward to seeing Leveon. Hopefully he's healthy and doesn't do any more damage to his knee.

I'm hoping for a better showing by the offense tonight.

[stillers4me]

369588556584730624

[Chidi29]

Interested who the #3 is. Guessing it's Victorian but maybe Curtis Brown? Even Isaiah Green.

[Chidi29]

No Howling tonight. Was hoping to get to see him on return duty. Bell should get a lot of reps.

369600728240648192

[Nadroj 20]

I was wanting to watch Stephens-Howling again. Oh well I'm sure it's just precaution.

Gives Bell more chances to prove what he can do in game situations.

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Also interested to see if that 5th WR makes the team.

[ALLD]

Tirico and Gruden are calling the game. Should I take ibuprofen now or wait until kickoff?

[Chidi29]

Tirico and Gruden are calling the game. Should I take ibuprofen now or wait until kickoff?

Make sure the game is muted when Kirk Cousins is in.

[SteelMayhem72]

Damn...several players not dressing tonight. howling,redman, sylvester...wtf??? I know this is preseason but Im tired of injuries

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btw I love gruden but at times hate his knob slobbing on certain players

[Chidi29]

Damn...several players not dressing tonight. howling,redman, sylvester...wtf??? I know this is preseason but Im tired of injuries

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btw I love gruden but at times hate his knob slobbing on certain players

Redman and Slyvester aren't surprises. Sly hasn't practiced all week and we knew Redman was suffering from a stinger. Only surprise is Howling

[SteelerFanInStl]

Tirico and Gruden are calling the game. Should I take ibuprofen now or wait until kickoff?

Take it now. Tirico said earlier in the pregame that Washington was playing Philadelphia.

[Chidi29]

I actually like Tirico a lot. And Gruden knows his stuff too. He just has a man crush on Kirk Cousins.

[Steeltreal]

Facial!

[Texasteel]

OK guys, I'm here. The game can start now. Looking forward to my first game of the year.

[Nadroj 20]

OK guys, I'm here. The game can start now. Looking forward to my first game of the year.

Good luck Tex!

:chuckle:

[steeldawg]

did he just say bell was brought in to start ad be the feature back? I must be hearing things.

[SteelMayhem72]

Im thinking our D is gonna make kirk cousins look silly...anybody wanna bet???

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did he just say bell was brought in to start ad be the feature back? I must be hearing things.
Yes he did say it and I believe it!

[steeldawg]

I have a good feeling about our D this season I think the turnovers will return to Pittsburgh this seaon

[SteelMayhem72]

I do like RG3...well spoken guy!!

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I have a good feeling about our D this season I think the turnovers will return to Pittsburgh this seaon
i agree!!!

[steeldawg]

Im thinking our D is gonna make kirk cousins look silly...anybody wanna bet???

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Yes he did say it and I believe it!

Lol ya I know I was just saying that because I have taken a lot of heat on here for saying that.

[Nadroj 20]

did he just say bell was brought in to start ad be the feature back? I must be hearing things.

No one has doubted that. Just saying he has to prove it no matter the intentions.

[Steeltreal]

I took a day off to not miss this.

[Chidi29]

McCoy starting over Palmer.

[ALLD]

fight!!!!! $$$$$

[salamander]

here we go Steelers!!

[Steeltreal]

Premature whistles!

[salamander]

They're really working Bell so far.

[steeldawg]

that was ugly

[SteelerFanInStl]

Well, that first series sucked.

[salamander]

Damn it...

[Chidi29]

Moorman over Butler. Curtis Brown, Thomas first team gunners.

[salamander]

Ugh. They just said Bell limped off the field.

[SteelerFanInStl]

And now he limped off the field.

[steeldawg]

I hope our offense isn't run run pass all season

[zulater]

Left wide out was wide open! No one within 10 yards of him. Why didn't Ben see him?

[steelerdude15]

Ugh. They just said Bell limped off the field.

I think it's his knee. I'm sure it's still bruised.

[Nadroj 20]

Ugh. They just said Bell limped off the field.

This is a merry-go-round I don't want to ride. He shouldn't have been playing tonight if there was any question and to be honest, I think it is more then a knee bruise if it has been lingering like this.

[steeldawg]

ben needs to be careful out there

[SteelMayhem72]

cmon D!!

[steeldawg]

well that was easy

[salamander]

Nice tackle by Troy.

[ALLD]

What about the team's offensive execution out there? I am all for it.

[Nadroj 20]

Someone needs to fix Troys hair, looks awful.

[salamander]

3 and out!

[steeldawg]

gay with good coverage there

[SteelerFanInStl]

Good job D.

[ALLD]

Great play by Billy Gay. Good thing Cousins overthrew the WR.

[SteelMayhem72]

cmon O!!!

[Dwinsgames]

not looking good in terms to the health of Bell , limping already ...perhaps they should have held him out another week

doh delete this forgot game threads are in other part of forum ( wondered why there wasn't one already )

[salamander]

https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc3/1175335_220311558123960_1842517820_n.jpg

[Steeltreal]

Read Wheaton wasnt a return guy at Oregon St. Why experiment?

[Nadroj 20]

Gay was there for sure, but it was a bad throw. Good job D!

[steeldawg]

ok offense lets get it going

[Chidi29]

Think Victorian is the #3 CB

[salamander]

Bell is out injured. Great... Nice run by Dwyer though.

[steeldawg]

jesus christ

[SteelMayhem72]

fuckin O line!!!

[SteelerFanInStl]

Come on OL!!!

[Nadroj 20]

Our line won't be able to keep him upright.

Pouncey got embarrassed

[salamander]

Well that was ugly. :doh:

[SteelerFanInStl]

F'ing Ben.

[steeldawg]

we look like crap, way to come out prepared fellas

[zulater]

Mediocre might be overly optomistic for this team.

[SteelMayhem72]

stupid!!!

[ALLD]

That will make the highlights. Good thing nobody watches ESPN.

[Nadroj 20]

Wow. This is so ugly.

[zulater]

Our line won't be able to keep him upright.

Pouncey got embarrassed

So did Foster, and one of the tackles.

[steeldawg]

that wasn't bens fault the o line man has got to get that defenders hands down on that play

[steeldevil]

Get rid of that play. Hasn't really worked yet. A giants de almost got a pick last week

[salamander]

Preseason or not, this team definitely has to work on some stuff. They have not looked good so far.

[ALLD]

Mediocre might be overly optomistic for this team.

Three or four plane crashes and we are in the playoffs.

[SteelMayhem72]

I dont know if my nerves and stomach can handle this upcoming season!! Ben just looks uncomfortable with this offensive scheme and it shows!!!

[86WARD]

OLine looks to be in mid-season form!

[Iron Steeler]

Hmmm maybe we should have drafted the sure thing in Eddie lacy

[Chidi29]

Read Wheaton wasnt a return guy at Oregon St. Why experiment?

#4 WR usually asked to play on STs.

[steeldawg]

so far so bad

[ALLD]

Ben looked flat starting the game and after the OL performance and sack, his head isn't even in the game.

[86WARD]

Come on...lol.

[Dwinsgames]

Bell FOOT injury not his knee .... durability concerns already

[zulater]

Ben looked flat starting the game and after the OL performance and sack, his head isn't even in the game.

His head wasn't in the game on the first pass attempt. Had AB wide open on the left flat, and didn't even see him.

[steeldawg]

why are we running crosses to dwyer

[86WARD]

Bell = soft.

[zulater]

Coming back

[SteelMayhem72]

WTF????

[Hindes204]

Wow...

[salamander]

They look awful...

[ALLD]

I think there is a new episode of American Pickers on the History Channel.

[Hindes204]

Shotgun draw on 3rd and long.......this seems familiar

[katmandu]

not looking good in terms to the health of Bell , limping already ...perhaps they should have held him out another week

doh delete this forgot game threads are in other part of forum ( wondered why there wasn't one already )OL sucking pretty bad as well......

[steeldawg]

haley for president

[Nadroj 20]

Please tell me the Redskins D is just that good....

[SteelMayhem72]

wtf???? Im not feeling good about our team!!! I looked at the schedule and Im feeling good about it but not anymore with this shit being displayed!!!

[SteelerFanInStl]

The play of the OL is terrible. High draft picks and a new OL coach and they still can't block.

[ALLD]

“They were absolutely horrible and that’s the best thing I can say. Besides that they were bad. These people are not poorly paid you know.”

[Dwinsgames]

Dejan Kovacevic ‏@Dejan_Kovacevic (https://twitter.com/Dejan_Kovacevic)3m (https://twitter.com/Dejan_Kovacevic/status/369616076067598336)
If you’re scoring at home, that’s a left knee in camp, and now a right foot in preseason for Bell. Feature back? Not yet. #Steelers (https://twitter.com/search?q=%23Steelers&src=hash)


Collapse (https://twitter.com/Dejan_Kovacevic/status/369616076067598336)

this

[SteelMayhem72]

probably need to start a fire haley thread even though I was all for him in the beginning!

[Hindes204]

It's just preseason, but they look terrible. They need to figure this shit out

[steeldawg]

garbage absolute garbage

[Polamalu Princess]

Let's go guys!!!!

[ALLD]

New starting OL:
http://image.made-in-china.com/2f0j00eBdaoPCzCvuG/3-Lane-Flap-Turnstile-Gate.jpg

[Hindes204]

And if Bell turns out to be as soft as he seems, we are screwed with Dwyer and Redman

[Dwinsgames]

It's just preseason, but they look terrible. They need to figure this shit out


yes .... like YESTERDAY

[steelerdude15]

Good audible, read, and tackle

[Nadroj 20]

Would like to see that out of him all year!

[steeldawg]

woodley!!

[salamander]

OMG Woodley made a play!!! :chuckle:

[86WARD]

LaMarr Woodley sighting.

[Steeltreal]

Woodley for Deacon Jones award!

[Nadroj 20]

At least the defense looks good. They are light years ahead of the offense right now.

[Chidi29]

Gay getting a long look on special teams.

[SteelMayhem72]

Nice job woodley!! Cmon Ben be Ben!!!

[fansince'76]

The play of the OL is terrible. High draft picks and a new OL coach and they still can't block.

Can't argue with that. I'm officially concerned at this point. They can't seem to make holes or form a decent pocket. Ben is under pressure almost immediately.

[Bluecoat96]

I don't know if you guys knew it, but it's the preseason. RELAX!

[SteelerFanInStl]

And if Bell turns out to be as soft as he seems, we are screwed with Dwyer and Redman

Yea, especially if Lacy continues to play like he has so far.

[steeldawg]

ben learn to slide

[salamander]

So Ben gets hit after attempting to slide down and we get called for holding. Awesome.

[ALLD]

Ben gets hit in the head and we get flagged for holding.

[fansince'76]

Ben gets hit in the head and we get flagged for holding.

Just like any other year.

[SteelMayhem72]

Ben gets hit in the head and we get flagged for holding.
Yep...bullshit!!!

[zulater]

So Ben gets hit after attempting to slide down and we get called for holding. Awesome.

After the whistle as well. Do that to Brady and they come out with a swat team!

[steeldawg]

lol that's ben for ya

[Polamalu Princess]

Be careful Ben.

[salamander]

PAULLLLSONNNNNN. :lol:

[Steeltreal]

Pick on Amerson!

[Nadroj 20]

Ben being Ben

[86WARD]

Paulson got ups and hands...lol...Heath who?

[Polamalu Princess]

There you go!

[ALLD]

Paulson is as good as Spaeth.

[Polamalu Princess]

There you go!!!!

[Nadroj 20]

I can see this team setting some kind of offense of line penalty record.

[steeldawg]

Our O line is killing us

[ALLD]

On his team's blocking strategy: "Hold when you're at home and don't hold when you're on the road."

[Edman]

Steelers O-Line blocking too well.

Better throw a flag.

[Nadroj 20]

The o-line can't even allow ben to run around amd create because they hold all the time.

[86WARD]

O-Line is just horrible...HORRIBLE!

[Hindes204]

Eff you oline

[ALLD]

That didn't look like a hold to me. The guy ran into adams and he never hugged.

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I would go for it.

[steeldawg]

this offense is a joke

[86WARD]

Hines Ward is here, Dwyer gets the first down.

[tube517]

Sushisham

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I717 using Tapatalk 4

[salamander]

LOL at the Redskin fans booing Suisham. You mad fans that he became good when he came to the Pittsburgh?

[Steeltreal]

Thays Dwyers game right there, not inside draw plays and checkdown passes

[st33lersguy]

Can this O-line do something other than commit penalties, and why are we giving the ball to Dwyer on 3rd and long? If we are going to do that, we're better off taking a knee so we don't risk injury or a turnover

[fansince'76]

Our O line is killing us

It's been doing that for years.

[Edman]

This OLine just cannot and will never win.

Blocking too well? Holding call.

Blocking sucks? Ben gets killed.

They just can't win.

[steeldawg]

Im trying not to get too worked up over a preseason game but they are not making it easy

[SteelMayhem72]

Can this O-line do something other than commit penalties, and why are we giving the ball to Dwyer on 3rd and long? If we are going to do that, we're better off taking a knee so we don't risk injury or a turnover
I dont understand this O line!

[fansince'76]

Can this O-line do something other than commit penalties...

Yeah, they're pretty adept at giving up sacks too. If it was Peyton Manning back there instead of Ben the Redskins would have 4 or 5 sacks by now.

[Nadroj 20]

Im trying not to get too worked up over a preseason game but they are not making it easy

It may be a preseason game, but these concerns are legitimate. It's still our first team playing their first team and it's irritating.

[SteelMayhem72]

lets let cousins run...good job timmons...hes got speed

[Chidi29]

This is no time to be Dufnering, Kirk Cousins.

[steeldawg]

all I know is the defense is going to have to play out of their mind this year for us to even have a shot

[SteelMayhem72]

Yeah, they're pretty adept at giving up sacks too. If it was Peyton Manning back there instead of Ben the Redskins would have 4 or 5 sacks by now.
Dont know about that...I think mannings vein would have popped out in his head getting on to his O line!! Ben get in their ass!!!!

[pepsyman1]

Woodley still looks fat to me

[salamander]

3 and out. I'll take it.

[steeldawg]

at least special teams has been better

[Steeltreal]

Live Well and Prosper Kirk!

[stillers4me]

Woodley still looks fat to me

He looked lean and mean Friday at camp.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk 4

[Hindes204]

On the bright side, the defense and Special teams look pretty good

[86WARD]

Kerrigan is just destroying this team...

[Polamalu Princess]

Come on!!!!

[steeldawg]

pfft

[pepsyman1]

It's amazing how bad this Oline looks when you consider the draft picks that have been invested in it

[salamander]

That works!

[steeldawg]

Jarvis jones! nice play

[Dwinsgames]

JARVIS !!!

[Hindes204]

Jones!!!!!!

[Polamalu Princess]

YES!!!!

[Bluecoat96]

SWEET!!!

[86WARD]

Jarvis Jones doing his best Ryan Kerrigan impression!

[Nadroj 20]

Defense bailing us out has to be consistent this year :chuckle:

[SteelMayhem72]

jones just got the job against woriilds!!!

[steeldawg]

shot through there like a cannon

[Bluecoat96]

DROY?


Too soon? ;)

[SteelMayhem72]

let the kid start!!!

[pepsyman1]

How huge was that???

[86WARD]

A mobile back up...there's an idea...

[Nadroj 20]

Dwyer looking pretty decent.

[zulater]

Can anyone tell me what was gained by kicking a 28 yard field goal on 4th and 3?

[SteelMayhem72]

well...dwyer may be my pick to start!!

[SteelMayhem72]

nevermind!!!!!!

[Dwinsgames]

and some want Dwyer cut instead of Batch ... THIS is exactly why we need to keep him

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son of a bitch

[fansince'76]

It's amazing how bad this Oline looks when you consider the draft picks that have been invested in it

Yeah, I don't get it. They've looked "2008 bad" so far.

[steeldawg]

awsome

[Nadroj 20]

that is a bad luck type of play. Ran into your own guy and lose the ball.

[Hindes204]

And therein lies the issue with Dwyer

[salamander]

Every time this team takes one step forward, it takes 5 steps back.

[Dwinsgames]

20 yards downfield JJ still pawing at the ball trying to knock it loose ....

[SteelMayhem72]

we look awful!!! wheres the discipline and intensity???

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goddamn ike!!!!

[Hindes204]

Haha....Ike was about to get smoked

[86WARD]

Ziggy Hood brings nothing to the table...he's getting tossed left and right.

[steeldawg]

we are so sloppy

[86WARD]

Grossman just worked the starting D...lol.

[SteelMayhem72]

fucking grossman burns us??????

[steeldawg]

gay got smoked

[Dwinsgames]

somewhere Don Merridith is warming up

[steelerdude15]

Gay being gay

[pepsyman1]

What a surprise, Gay beaten badly for a TD

[Nadroj 20]

Too be fair that wasn't a hard throw. Nice move by Hankerson.

[Polamalu Princess]

Ugh!

[salamander]

I've seen enough for tonight. That was a nice catch by their WR but this team is still very undisciplined. They have A LOT to work on before the regular season starts.

[SteelerFanInStl]

This is just sad. Penalties and turnovers up the azz. Such an undisciplined team.

[steeldawg]

I wonder what it will be like to finish last in the division?

[SteelMayhem72]

ok...im gonna tell ya...if i dont see improvement in our team in the next 2 preseason games then Ive gotta say we are a 7-9 team...wtf!!! Wtf Tomlin...dont allow this shit to take the field...lose the jive coaching...cowher would have never allowed this to be presented!!!! Tomlin...quit being so passive as a coach!!!

[steeldawg]

lets see some wheaton

[SteelerFanInStl]

gay got smoked

Yep. He bit on the out.

[pepsyman1]

Wow! There was not even the slightest ILLUSION of pass protection on that play

[SteelerFanInStl]

This OL needs a boot up their ass.

[86WARD]

7-9 would be a stretch...

[steeldawg]

will Johnson my be hurt

[X-Terminator]

2 words.

It's preseason.

You would think by now that most fans in general wouldn't give 2 shits about preseason other than hoping there are no major injuries to starters.

[steeldawg]

ugh

[SteelMayhem72]

i guess all the regulars in here are not feeling good about this year...where are they?

[steeldawg]

nice catch manny

[pepsyman1]

WOW! Great grab from Sanders

[SteelMayhem72]

sanders probably should be the number 1 receiver

[tube517]

2 words.

It's preseason.

You would think by now that most fans in general wouldn't give 2 shits about preseason other than hoping there are no major injuries to starters.

Two words: Jive Coaching. LMAO. Love game day threads in the preseason

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I717 using Tapatalk 4

[fansince'76]

2 words.

It's preseason.

You would think by now that most fans in general wouldn't give 2 shits about preseason other than hoping there are no major injuries to starters.

My only real concern is this OL. They are not on the same page yet. They've looked like crap in both games, IMO.

[steeldawg]

sanders nice

[pepsyman1]

Those two grabs were all I need to see. Sanders is gonna be just fine as the number 2

[Polamalu Princess]

Nice.

[SteelMayhem72]

2 words.

It's preseason.

You would think by now that most fans in general wouldn't give 2 shits about preseason other than hoping there are no major injuries to starters.
I have to disagree with you...its not like they are not trying. I know its preseason but they are not showing anything to be optimistic about...like I said I know its preseason but weve gotta say that the O line is awful!!!

[Steeltreal]

Dont see point in playing #39 with first team oline.

[SteelMayhem72]

Brown not showing me anything

[Bluecoat96]

2 words.

It's preseason.

You would think by now that most fans in general wouldn't give 2 shits about preseason other than hoping there are no major injuries to starters.

THIS!!!!

[Chidi29]

Smash route on that play.

[X-Terminator]

I have to disagree with you...its not like they are not trying. I know its preseason but they are not showing anything to be optimistic about...like I said I know its preseason but weve gotta say that the O line is awful!!!

You know how little I care about preseason? I'm not watching the game. Because it's meaningless.

I know we're supposed to be passionate fans and all, but save it for when the actual season starts.

[SteelMayhem72]

Two words: Jive Coaching. LMAO. Love game day threads in the preseason

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I717 using Tapatalk 4
Yes Jive coaching...ive watched the tape...get in their ass!!!!

[Chidi29]

Rolle, McFadden 2nd team ILB

[SteelMayhem72]

You know how little I care about preseason? I'm not watching the game. Because it's meaningless.

I know we're supposed to be passionate fans and all, but save it for when the actual season starts.
X you know I love you buddy but Im sorry I have to nicely disagree with you!!

[Nadroj 20]

I'd love to have a former superbowl starting QB as my 3rd stringer.

[SteelerFanInStl]

Not a single one of the WRs had a defender even close to them on that drive. Pathetic.

[pepsyman1]

Incredibly sloppy first half for the Steelers on both sides of the ball

[Dwinsgames]

You know how little I care about preseason? I'm not watching the game. Because it's meaningless.

I know we're supposed to be passionate fans and all, but save it for when the actual season starts.


I love it ...

love watching the depth . love watching the team build chemistry ... tonight no chemistry esp with the 0-line abysmal

[X-Terminator]

X you know I love you buddy but Im sorry I have to nicely disagree with you!!

I just think people overreact too much to preseason games. There's so much history that proves that they're meaningless, including some of our own. Did you know the Lions were 4-0 the preseason before they went 0-16? That's how little it means. OK, people are concerned about some things, like the OL. I get it. But it's not worth all of this hand-wringing right now.

[st33lersguy]

This team looks like crap everywhere. The O-line stinks, Ben doesn't look good and apparently is made of glass, Bell looks like crap, the defense made Rex frickin Groosman look good, sheesh. Where the frick is Stephens-Howling. The only good thing about this game was the play Jarvis Jones made

[SteelMayhem72]

I just think people overreact too much to preseason games. There's so much history that proves that they're meaningless, including some of our own. Did you know the Lions were 4-0 the preseason before they went 0-16? That's how little it means. OK, people are concerned about some things, like the OL. I get it. But it's not worth all of this hand-wringing right now.
You know what...Im gonna go with your optimism...its infectious and no im not being sarcastic

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This team looks like crap everywhere. The O-line stinks, Ben doesn't look good and apparently is made of glass, Bell looks like crap, the defense made Rex frickin Groosman look good, sheesh. Where the frick is Stephens-Howling
he has a "slight" injury...listen to X...he has made my attitude better!

[Dwinsgames]

This team looks like crap everywhere. The O-line stinks, Ben doesn't look good and apparently is made of glass, Bell looks like crap, the defense made Rex frickin Groosman look good, sheesh. Where the frick is Stephens-Howling. The only good thing about this game was the play Jarvis Jones made

inactive with no explanation as to why

[X-Terminator]

You know what...Im gonna go with your optimism...its infectious and no im not being sarcastic

Heh, well if they look like this the first couple of games of the regular season, that optimism will turn pretty fast. ;)